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DHS Best-and-Brightest STEM Program Under Fire
theodp writes "In mid-May, the Department of Homeland Security quietly expanded a program that allows foreign science, technology, engineering and math grads to work in the U.S. for 29 months without a work visa. 'Attracting the best and brightest international talent to our colleges and universities and enabling them to contribute to their professional growth is an important part of our nation's economic, scientific and technological competitiveness,' explained DHS Chief Janet Napolitano. But last week, Senator Chuck Grassley called on the GAO to 'fully investigate' the student visa program, citing reports of abuse and other concerns in his letter. Now, Computerworld reports that the DHS STEM Visa Extension Program continues to be dominated by Stratford University and the University of Bridgeport (as it was in 2010), prompting some tongues to wag. It is 'obvious to any reasonable person that the schools producing most of the OPT students are not prestigious research universities,' quipped policy analyst Daniel Costa, 'which means that many of the OPT students across the country are not in fact the "best and brightest."' While conceding that top students can come from lesser-known schools, 'those will be the exception to the rule,' argued Costa, who suggested the government should include performance metrics in the OPT program, such as grades and university rankings."
Oh, DHS, is there anything you can't screw up?
They need a cheap work force.
Granted young people from prestigious universities might be helpful doing research at US universities. But for inexperienced people to help the US companies, they need enough of them to depress wages.
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Public Universities should not be accepting foreign students over U.S. students. They may say they want the "prestige" of having a diverse student body or say that they have some hot shot kid from one of the Stan countries, but no matter. They were created for and their job is to provide a higher education for the American public. Especially since they are largely financed by U.S. Taxpayers.
Private Universities? As long as they are let in under the rules and not given precedence over those who have been in line, fine, go ahead.
It seems that most of the institutions of higher learning have forgotten what their purpose is and instead strive to have the most bling... people or programs or things.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
A major expansion of the program occurred in 2008 under Bush and is now expanded again by Obama. Over 400000 OPT Visas from 2006-2010, so this is the same scale at H1B. The DHS press release has the usual, if questionable, justification: this is only for the best of the best of the best and there are no US workers with these skills.
Lies and quiet scheming have replaced honest discussion with US citizens.
Let me rephrase that: "Why would anyone qualified be interested in that?". Sure, 29 months sounds long, but if you have to leave at the end, it is basically wasted time. The "best and brightest" do typically not fall for that kind of scam. In any sane country, you can extend your stay and, after a time, apply for citizenship with good probability of getting it.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
actually, this is not really offtopic...
You don't think that technology, engineering and bio-engineering companies might be interested being able to hire the smartest people they can find anywhere in the world?
Why would they want such a thing? All their competitors are in US, so as long as those competitors don't have smart people, it's ok to hire stupid ones.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
than your average immigrant.
For instance, OPT employers aren't subject to the same rules governing H-1B workers, who must be paid the prevailing wage.
The U.S. has approved about 35,274 OPT extensions and denied only 613 since the program was started.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
American companies complaining they can't hire resources in these fields (without mentioning that they want to pay jack shit) perhaps?
Strikes me as a bit of an H1B dodge...
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
We already have 320 million people in this country! I'd really, really be interested in knowing what skill set isn't represented here, such that we need to import it. Yes, I understand that we're discussing highly skilled people here. However, highly skilled isn't necessarily interchangeable with highly in demand. We already have plenty of Ph.D level people in STEM fields currently unemployed. What makes the foreign talent so much more attractive?
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
I cannot see what the issue is: is it to sell this story as a problematic for patriots? USA was always standing for "acquiring the best" and this rule is here to exactly work this out, in this new era where xenophobia is getting a second, and IMHO rather unfortunate, wind.
If anything, this is patriotic. What, is anyone afraid that those people granted work without a VISA will make a run for it when their months are up, and give up their opportunities for high profile positions and hefty salaries to escape immigration and start flipping burgers on an unregistered job?
The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
Many of us are tired of the all the xenophilia that seems to have taken over our government and most of our institutions. Everything in the U.S. seems to be run for the benefit of anyone in the world except American citizens.
Every position held by one of these visa holders is a position that an American citizen does not hold. A position, remember, that is at an institution at least partially (if not wholly) supported by American taxpayers. More people are asking why our money is going to benefit other countries' citizens, instead of our own?
But it doesn't matter what argument I give; you'll call me racist anyway.
What makes the foreign talent so much more attractive?
Because when hired under a visa program, they can be strong-armed into lower wages under threat of letting the visa lapse.
Because there's a continued assault on STEM education here in the states, an utter lack of parent involvement and encouragement, and a rather pitiful showing by students' test scores.
Take your pick, but the right answer is "all of the above".
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Public Universities should not be accepting foreign students over U.S. students. They may say they want the "prestige" of having a diverse student body or say that they have some hot shot kid from one of the Stan countries, but no matter. They were created for and their job is to provide a higher education for the American public. Especially since they are largely financed by U.S. Taxpayers.
Private Universities? As long as they are let in under the rules and not given precedence over those who have been in line, fine, go ahead.
It seems that most of the institutions of higher learning have forgotten what their purpose is and instead strive to have the most bling... people or programs or things.
Let me stop you right there with three points.
1. No one is saying that US students are passed over foreign ones. Do you have proof that this is what is happening?
2. The truth of the matter is that US students are not going in droves into STEM fields at the 4-year level, let alone the grad level. This is the truth. Suck on it and deal with it. The US STEM intelligentsia is disproportionally composed of foreign-born nationals. US students do not get passed over. They simply chose to study for Marketing or Creative Writing.
3. Why not use tax payers to get the best and brightest from abroad to study here and become US nationals? That's better use of of taxpayers money (my money, your money) than funding yet another graduate in Creative Writing burdened by a $100K loan.
It was a foreign-born citizen who created USB, and another one who helped create google. And many more created a lot more shit while the rest of us were content studying for useless degrees, while complaining why US students get passed over (which is not true.)
A little bit more perspective and a little less of this stupid faux victim look-at-me syndrome is what you need.
I think xenophilia is a mild term - xenomania is a more appropriate description.
Btw, I'm a non-white Asian, and I approve of your message.
Its not about the import, its the imprint the young minds got when they return home. ...just like every other "best of a generation" US grad.
That cute, lazy, rich, poor, gifted 20 something might recall his/her time in the US and buy up big as some CEO, political leader or allow a deal as a lawyer in their 50's/60's.
It cuts past left/right/faith/dictator/nationalism as it was part of their life. The US know to invest in that gift long term.
The US is producing generational 'friends' around the world i.e. foreign talent has potential, another US grad from an elite coast university is just another grad who might do something
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
>> These reforms reflect the Obama administration's ongoing commitment to promote policies that embrace talented students from other countries ...while ensuring talented students and workers in the United States continue to get screwed.
How much longer under November again?
My country belongs to me and exclusivity protects my interests while giving away the store does not.
If YOU want to live in a Third World country, you have plenty of other options.
The reasons people want to LEAVE such countries are the same reasons we shouldn't let ALL of them in or we just duplicate the problems they fled in the first place!
Of course that doesn't concern you.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
There is a lot of false on this thread. An OPT is crucial for the best and the brightest. A F-1 student is not granted the intent to immigrate. They are considered as visitors. Even during OPT they are F-1 students who are supposed to return home after the OPT. OPT status lets the students move jobs and companies don't have to pay through their nose to get someone who is working elsewhere working on an OPT.
A H1-b on the other hand has a dual intent. Every single time an employee leaves a company and switches to another the company has to pay $2000 to $5000 in H1b fees and there is almost a doubling of that as the lawyers fees. So it's $10,000 for a transfer. This means these employees don't switch jobs. They will work with increasing workloads at a lower pay scale. The H1-b program helps companies to lock down talent. The lower end jobs are all filled with this now. They will stay lower end forever on a H1b unless a green card is filed for. Guess what? The green cards take donkeys years for some countries. 10 or 15 in some cases. They can't really do anything but be slave labor during that time. Some of these people did come here on merit scholarships. They have to retard their careers to stay on. Many choose not to stay on to get a green card. A H1-b needs to be paid way way more than the prevailing wages now. There is a labor certification and the wages cited are ridiculous. It's double the current actual wages in some cases. So the H1-b program is the least useful for the best and the brightest. They are the best and the brightest but you don't pay that to someone based on one interview. You want to see them work. It's not possible through a resume screening or through an interview.
H1-b fee increases are horrible to say the least. The OPT extension is only on three areas. The OPT students are the least of the problem. They compete as equal entry level workers. A H-1b out of his job for even a day is out of status. He won't even have time to sell his furniture. There is an off the books grace period of 30 days. Yep off the books 30 days to ship out after selling all they paid for at fire sale prices. The H1-b makes them neo-slave labor. This is the reality. This comment will probably be modded down.
The solution is to either do away with the H1-B and F-1 visas or to make it easy for H1-B's to switch jobs. An automatic entitlement to file for a green card after 5 years on H1-B as opposed to the company sponsoring H1-B. It's no more harmful than lottery visas. In fact if someone has been on a H1-b for five years now they are possibly better than their equivalent American worker. They earn less and do more work due to the difficulty of switching now. So why do away with excellent workers.
The other problem is F-1 and H1-B are related. If foreign students don't feel they have a shot at permanent visa many of them won't come to US. It's probably horribly expensive for some of them from countries where the income levels are 1/50th of American levels. They spend everything they have to get here. If there is no OPT the American university system will crumble. Some countries have already started opening up their doors to joint degrees in their countries. Singapore is an example. This will prevent the outflow of foreign exchange. The American professors will still be paid but fewer returns for the university ecosystem in US. Students spend money to live in US, if they earn they pay their taxes. All of that is gone. It's a big deal. So in real economic terms the US has been stupid and regressive with the H1-B fee hikes. The OPT trick is a gimmick. The admissions in non stem programs with 12 months OPT has gone down drastically. That's thousands of dollars which the universities are not making. It's thousands the American students have to cough up. Most of the foreign graduates are taking up just a few additional seats which will now be vacant.
What's necessary isn't the reaction of companies are cheating on H1-b filings. The xenophobia has to end. It's liberalization of the regime with H1-b po
Hope you have a job. Because programs like this will insure that US graduates get to earn postdoc qualifications in burger-flipping while foreign students that are eager for jobs paying much more than they could get at home will take what employment there is.
Look around and see what other first-world countries are doing for immigration. Most have far more restrictive policies than the US does and is far, far harsher for anyone violating their laws. Overstay your visa in Germany and you will likely be arrested and shipped out of the country. Walk into Mexico and you will find that their border is defended by the Mexican Army, and they do defend their border vigorously, with armed response to invaders.
The US is still allowing huge numbers of legal immigrants in and these people are competing for the same jobs that US graduates are. Absolutely, we can employ cheaper foreign labor in all areas of employment - but we better figure out how to support the jobless that aren't going to get what jobs there are. You see, we finally have the economy that functions without a huge unjustifiable bubble - and at least 30% of the country is unemployed or underemployed. Meaning that STEM graduates are working at McDonalds because there simply aren't the STEM jobs to go around.
And we want to bring in more people for these jobs that will work cheaper? As I said, hope you have a job - because with programs like this you will be supporting 2-3 non-working people. There simply is no choice in the matter any more. We are going to have to return to permanent government support for the folks that aren't working.
It's not just the PhDs their bringing in (and unemployment in high tech fields requiring advanced degrees is a good deal lower than the rest.) Still, FTFA:
"With youth unemployment being as high as it is, the Obama administration should be focusing on attracting the smartest immigrants that will add value and complement the workforce," said Costa.
"Adding workers with ordinary skills from vocational schools that few people have ever heard of - just because they hold STEM degrees - does nothing to further that goal," he added.
It is not as if the US is suffering it's highest long-term unemployment since the great depression, or anything like that.
The truth is: 93% of visa workers are ordinary people, doing ordinary jobs. The GAO has proved this.
Visa programs are not designed to let in the "best and brightest" they are designed to replace US workers with cheaper foreign workers.
The GAO has proved that 93% of visa workers do not work at the advanced level, and 54% of visa workers are entry level.
These visa programs are designed to replace US workers with cheaper offshore workers.
Hope you have a job. Because programs like this will insure that US graduates get to earn postdoc qualifications in burger-flipping while foreign students that are eager for jobs paying much more than they could get at home will take what employment there is.
Life isn't a zero-sum game. It's entirely possible for you and me to both have jobs.
Look around and see what other first-world countries are doing for immigration. Most have far more restrictive policies than the US does and is far, far harsher for anyone violating their laws. Overstay your visa in Germany and you will likely be arrested and shipped out of the country. Walk into Mexico and you will find that their border is defended by the Mexican Army, and they do defend their border vigorously, with armed response to invaders.
Wow, that explains why Mexico is so prosperous and stable.
The US is still allowing huge numbers of legal immigrants in and these people are competing for the same jobs that US graduates are. Absolutely, we can employ cheaper foreign labor in all areas of employment - but we better figure out how to support the jobless that aren't going to get what jobs there are. You see, we finally have the economy that functions without a huge unjustifiable bubble - and at least 30% of the country is unemployed or underemployed. Meaning that STEM graduates are working at McDonalds because there simply aren't the STEM jobs to go around.
Limiting the number of people isn't going to help. Like I mentioned before -- not a zero sum game. More people => more need for stuff => more jobs.
And we want to bring in more people for these jobs that will work cheaper?
Do you want to work in a field, picking vegetables? No? Are you willing to pay twice as much for all of your vegetables? No? Then stop making life even harder for the people with the worst jobs. Immigrants work most of our crap jobs because Americans *won't do them for any amounts of money*.
Don't you think US employers prefer this slave labor? If so, then it's hardly "xenophobic" to realize that US workers are being replaced by such "slave labor" - your own words.
Visa workers are not "immigrants" they are temporary labor. An immigrant is somebody who leave his/her home country and permenantly settles in another country.
These visa workers are far from the "best and brightest" they are ordinary workers, taking ordinary jobs. This while the US suffers it worst long-term unemployment since the great depression.
The mistake was making a program that
"allows foreign science, technology, engineering and math grads to work in the U.S. for 29 months without a work visa"
It's much better politics to create a special "29 month education investment repayment work visa" to "allow certain foreign science, technology, engineering, and math graduates to use their valuable skills in the United States, thereby improving American industries and the Untied States economy."
Same result, less political opposition.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Actually it's probably a negative-sum, because a lot of migrants not only take jobs, but they send their wages out of the country, and often receive more in government benefits than they've paid for. They may lower prices, but the cost of labor is a tiny fraction of prices, and any business's priority is amassing profits first. No, 5% cheaper broccoli does not justify disrupting law and order, undermining the political system, and engaging in human trafficking on a massive scale
Every position held by one of these visa holders is a position that an American citizen does not hold.
This belief is so common that economist's have a term for it: The Lump of Labor Fallacy.
If our educational system was able to teach even a single fact about economics, it would be that the economy is not a zero-sum game. Yet so many people don't even learn this one principle.
"Attracting the best and brightest international talent to our colleges and universities and enabling them to contribute to their professional growth is an important part of our nation's economic, scientific and technological competitiveness," explained DHS Chief Janet Napolitano.
Going back to original topic of bringing in foreign nationals, I think real problem is universities are getting too used to them paying full tuition and pricing out domestic students. Then once we educate these foreign nationals, we kick them out (then their native country gets benefit of their education).
But on question of spies, other countries don't need to send spies because we export our technology and techniques to other countries.
mfwright@batnet.com
That's about the right amount of time to run them through the espionage training program at Langley. And to teach them how to use a shoe phone, the cone of silence and other equipment.
Have gnu, will travel.
If America is indeed a meritocracy, that means then that Americans are not as qualified to hold that job as the foreigners are. So now you are faced with a couple of decisions:
* you make hiring decisions not based on merit, but based on whether a person is related to you. In other words, you turn the US from a meritocracy into an aristocracy.
* you decide that the foreigners are getting too much of a leg up, because any bonus to immigrants gives them too much of a leg up over Americans. In which case, you are tacitly admitting that the US is really just the same as all other countries, and American exceptionalism is dead.
* you decide that all economists are wrong, and that there really is just a static set of jobs available, that putting someone unqualified in a position has no impact on the overall economy, and by the way, isolationism works just splendidly.
* you decided that the economists might be right, but that you just don't like foreigners. In which case, you just proved the old saw that nobody hates new immigrants like old immigrants.
In other words: get the fuck out of my country. Oh, and all you upmodders - the same goes for you.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I've seen OPT used properly and effectively for very talented foreign students. I've been around very good universities and I can confirm OPT is critical at keeping top-tier foreign students here in the US. The most common cases are (a) the summer grad school gap when changing schools and (b) a gap between graduation and an employment visa. The former may seem trivial, but it can allow a student to finish up a research project at University A before moving on to University B (e.g., undergrad to grad, MS to PhD, etc). Losing three months of an integrated, talented student has significant impact on a research project. For the latter, I've met numerous students who used OPT as key step towards gaining eventual permanent status.
And China IS making it that way.
China's trade surpluses are rapidly disappearing. The USA's trade deficits are not. If the rest of the world doesn't have a problem trading with China, and the USA runs large deficits with many countries other than China, maybe the root of the problem is in America and not China.
they are in a hurry to match their military build-up.
America's military spending is about twenty times what China spends.
Your argument fails at the very first assumption, that we are in a simple meritocracy.
The first point you miss is money:
If a foreigner (via this program, H1B visa, or any others) is only half-as-good as an American, but is willing to work for one third the pay ... well ...
Also consider the future, through trends established with a program like this. If we give outsource all the low-level tech jobs, low level American techs won't have a starting point. Not every college grad is going to immediately land a top level Engineering gig. Being able to hold down a steady job as tech support, call centers, circuit-board stuffers, etc can be a stop-gap measure while they look for a better job and/or continue their education.
That's not to say we should completely eliminate outsourcing or H1Bs and merit based programs like this, or that all foreign workers are only half as good. Nothing like that. The programs are all fine and good if used correctly; as a merit-based system to find highly talented workers and intelligent minds that want to immigrate here. Currently they're just used to find cheaper labor...
This signature is false.
Every position held by one of these visa holders is a position that an American citizen does not hold ... more people are asking why our money is going to benefit other countries' citizens, instead of our own?
The easy and obvious way to solve this problem is to give those people citizenship.
The reasons people want to LEAVE such countries are the same reasons we shouldn't let ALL of them in or we just duplicate the problems they fled in the first place!
Sure, but TFA is decidedly not about letting "all" in - it's about letting the cream of the crop in. Which sounds like a sensible immigration policy for any country.
Though, really, what's needed is some reasonably efficient filter that doesn't let in people whose cultural baggage is outright incompatible with the basic tenets of the society they're immigrating to. Was it Netherlands that had recently introduced a "porn test" to screen out Islamist fundies? We need more of that kind of thing across the entire Western world.
A lot of the 'up and coming' PhD's in American traditionally came from the middle class. Destroy the middle class, like what's been happening here in the States for the last 40-some odd years, and the sources dry up. Sure, there's government funding for 'underprivileged' students, but there's not a lot of it, and most of those students get shuffled off to a state university. Also, the funding cuts off as soon as they get a 'salable' degree, like an associates or bachelors. In most fields, an associates won't even get you to the door.let alone in the door.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
If you look at countries that are actually prospering (unlike Mexico), such as Canada and Australia and New Zealand, you'll find that they treat immigrants very differently based on their skill levels. People with no skills and education, they don't want in those countries, because they'll be a drain on their social-welfare systems. However, highly skilled people in highly-demanded professions, they roll out the red carpet for; engineers are one big sector for this. There's not enough "knowledge workers" in those countries, and they want more. It's called a "brain drain": smart countries always want to take the "best and brightest" from wherever they can get them, and it generally helps their economy greatly to do so. However, smart countries also are highly discriminatory in who they allow in, because they don't want people who are going to cause more problems, so that's why they don't allow anyone in who's a felon or is dirt-poor and has no skills.
Yes, but people who do science are supposed to do it because they love it! Not for the money. So they should be happy to receive a pittance, because the people in management are doing their jobs because they love money, so they deserve to earn more of it, by giving puny salaries to the scientists.
</sarcasm>
"Computer-related H-1Bs have a median age of 27.4; 52% have less than 2 years of experience, and another 41% have 2-5 years."
Only 3% of a typical MSFT H-1B visa intake are US DoL level-four workers -- i.e., do work that requires independent judgment. Most H-1b use "level one" which is 17th percentile of U.S. wages -- $10k to $15k below what average-skilled Americans get paid. The 75th percentile for pay of new H-1B computing professionals was just $60K, below the median, in FY2005. Phiroz Vandrevala admitted that "Our wage per employee is 20%-25% lesser than US wage for a similar employee."
DoL PERM data show that the average H-1B worker sponsored for a green card is paid a tiny fraction of one percent above the median wage for the industry (Matloff found 109%, whle Perelman claimed 121% for the same prominent firm), not the 150% or 200% or 300% one would expect the very "best and brightest" to deserve. DoL is required by law to reject any H-1B or green card application that lists a salary below prevailing wage, so the ratios of actual to prevailing wage should never be below 1.00. Even "Einstein" workers on O-1 visas at MSFT were paid only 140.4% of the median.
Half of the 52,352 H-1B computing professionals admitted in FY2005 earned less than entry-level wages. 56% of the H-1B applications for computing jobs were for the lowest skill level, 'Level 1'.
The "prevailing wage" requirement is a fraud, since the name gives the impression that it requires paying the actual, previously existing market compensation for the same work, done by someone with the same talent, knowledge, credentials, experience, etc., while, in actuality, it allows the guest-worker to be paid significantly less. Census data, the INS/USCIS H-1B data, and the DoL green card (PERM) data all show a pattern of paying the H-1B grantees less than comparable American STEM workers.
"STEM foreign students at U.S. universities tend to be at the less-selective universities [and] Most foreign workers work at or near entry level, described by the Department of Labor in terms akin to apprenticeship."
When Industry wants more cheap H-1B labor these are "highly skilled" workers. When it comes to determining how much they have to pay, they suddenly become "low skilled". DoL ETA has shown several times that it has perverse notion of "state-of-the-art" "highly skilled occupations".
The 3 most-needed reforms to the E-3, H-1B, J, L, and even O visa programs are (1) put in place some reasonable minimal competence/skill standards which applicants need to meet, (2) reduce the numbers of such visas, and (3) run reasonable and proper background investigations on every visa applicant.
1. You must not be in the habit of initiating force or fraud, or advocating such. That's why every applicant ought to pass a proper background investigation.
2. You should expect to have to prove that you're good at something people in the USA want. Do you have an IQ in the top half of a percent? Good. Do you have 5 significant patents (not these feeble "put a camera in a cellular phone" things, something surprising, new, and good) to your name. Good. Are you one of the best 10 brick-layers in your country? Good. Are you one of the best 10 precision machinists in your country; can you set up a part and select the right mill to get within 4 ten-thousandths of an inch tolerance? Good. All such things should count in your favor toward qualifying, but no one of them should suffice.
3. Are you bringing some significant investment capital into the USA with you? Are the funds you're bringing to the USA sufficient to at least build something significantly more than a burger/chicken joint (call it $300K at the very minimum) and do you have at least 3 US citizens who are not relatives or recent (within the last 15 years) immigrants lined up as employees for opening day? Are you able and willing to post a bond of $50K guaranteeing that you will employ at least 10 US citizens (as above) within the first year? Good. You're on your way to qualifying.
The whole equal rights and privileges thing begins when you give up allegiance to foreign governments and rulers, learn about the US founding, Bill of Rights, etc., and swear/affirm with penalties for perjury that you will uphold the US constitution and be honest and peaceful in your dealings with others.
We're bringing in STEM people on OPT visas to pick vegetables for us? Really?
The problem is that we're already making stuff using less labor, leaving lots of people unemployed no matter how much growing demand there is for even more stuff. In our current economic system unemployment means poverty, and unemployment is pretty much guaranteed for an increasingly large fraction of the population. Bringing in even more labor certainly does not solve that problem.
We need to find something for all our "surplus labor" to do, so that they can be employed (hopefully doing something useful, not just busy-work making more disposable junk for people to consume), or we need to find some way to provide a decent living for growing masses of chronically unemployed or underemployed people (oh noes, socialism!).
We're bringing in STEM people on OPT visas to pick vegetables for us? Really?
Reasonable point, but I think the answer is basically the same -- the vast majority of Americans don't go into engineering majors, and of those that do, a lot of them aren't any good at it. More competent people => larger/more successful companies => more jobs.
The problem is that we're already making stuff using less labor, leaving lots of people unemployed no matter how much growing demand there is for even more stuff. In our current economic system unemployment means poverty, and unemployment is pretty much guaranteed for an increasingly large fraction of the population. Bringing in even more labor certainly does not solve that problem.
We need to find something for all our "surplus labor" to do, so that they can be employed (hopefully doing something useful, not just busy-work making more disposable junk for people to consume), or we need to find some way to provide a decent living for growing masses of chronically unemployed or underemployed people (oh noes, socialism!).
I don't necessarily disagree here, although I think there's likely other (possibly bettter) solutions, like reducing the barrier to entry for small companies (currently, taxes make it incredibly expensive to start a small business).