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DHS Best-and-Brightest STEM Program Under Fire
theodp writes "In mid-May, the Department of Homeland Security quietly expanded a program that allows foreign science, technology, engineering and math grads to work in the U.S. for 29 months without a work visa. 'Attracting the best and brightest international talent to our colleges and universities and enabling them to contribute to their professional growth is an important part of our nation's economic, scientific and technological competitiveness,' explained DHS Chief Janet Napolitano. But last week, Senator Chuck Grassley called on the GAO to 'fully investigate' the student visa program, citing reports of abuse and other concerns in his letter. Now, Computerworld reports that the DHS STEM Visa Extension Program continues to be dominated by Stratford University and the University of Bridgeport (as it was in 2010), prompting some tongues to wag. It is 'obvious to any reasonable person that the schools producing most of the OPT students are not prestigious research universities,' quipped policy analyst Daniel Costa, 'which means that many of the OPT students across the country are not in fact the "best and brightest."' While conceding that top students can come from lesser-known schools, 'those will be the exception to the rule,' argued Costa, who suggested the government should include performance metrics in the OPT program, such as grades and university rankings."
They need a cheap work force.
Granted young people from prestigious universities might be helpful doing research at US universities. But for inexperienced people to help the US companies, they need enough of them to depress wages.
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Public Universities should not be accepting foreign students over U.S. students. They may say they want the "prestige" of having a diverse student body or say that they have some hot shot kid from one of the Stan countries, but no matter. They were created for and their job is to provide a higher education for the American public. Especially since they are largely financed by U.S. Taxpayers.
Private Universities? As long as they are let in under the rules and not given precedence over those who have been in line, fine, go ahead.
It seems that most of the institutions of higher learning have forgotten what their purpose is and instead strive to have the most bling... people or programs or things.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
A major expansion of the program occurred in 2008 under Bush and is now expanded again by Obama. Over 400000 OPT Visas from 2006-2010, so this is the same scale at H1B. The DHS press release has the usual, if questionable, justification: this is only for the best of the best of the best and there are no US workers with these skills.
Lies and quiet scheming have replaced honest discussion with US citizens.
Let me rephrase that: "Why would anyone qualified be interested in that?". Sure, 29 months sounds long, but if you have to leave at the end, it is basically wasted time. The "best and brightest" do typically not fall for that kind of scam. In any sane country, you can extend your stay and, after a time, apply for citizenship with good probability of getting it.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
actually, this is not really offtopic...
Yeah, you know, I've always wondered why there isn't a mod option for "Spam", considering how often it shows up.
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For instance, OPT employers aren't subject to the same rules governing H-1B workers, who must be paid the prevailing wage.
The U.S. has approved about 35,274 OPT extensions and denied only 613 since the program was started.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
American companies complaining they can't hire resources in these fields (without mentioning that they want to pay jack shit) perhaps?
Strikes me as a bit of an H1B dodge...
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
We already have 320 million people in this country! I'd really, really be interested in knowing what skill set isn't represented here, such that we need to import it. Yes, I understand that we're discussing highly skilled people here. However, highly skilled isn't necessarily interchangeable with highly in demand. We already have plenty of Ph.D level people in STEM fields currently unemployed. What makes the foreign talent so much more attractive?
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
Because you don't get mod points often and they don't want people wasting them on Spam, that's what the little flag in the bottom right is for these days. Obviously people use their mod points to kill it anyway, so it's probably a moot point, but I think that's the idea. And besides, 'offtopic' is accurate enough if you think about it.
Many of us are tired of the all the xenophilia that seems to have taken over our government and most of our institutions. Everything in the U.S. seems to be run for the benefit of anyone in the world except American citizens.
Every position held by one of these visa holders is a position that an American citizen does not hold. A position, remember, that is at an institution at least partially (if not wholly) supported by American taxpayers. More people are asking why our money is going to benefit other countries' citizens, instead of our own?
But it doesn't matter what argument I give; you'll call me racist anyway.
What makes the foreign talent so much more attractive?
Because when hired under a visa program, they can be strong-armed into lower wages under threat of letting the visa lapse.
Because there's a continued assault on STEM education here in the states, an utter lack of parent involvement and encouragement, and a rather pitiful showing by students' test scores.
Take your pick, but the right answer is "all of the above".
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Public Universities should not be accepting foreign students over U.S. students. They may say they want the "prestige" of having a diverse student body or say that they have some hot shot kid from one of the Stan countries, but no matter. They were created for and their job is to provide a higher education for the American public. Especially since they are largely financed by U.S. Taxpayers.
Private Universities? As long as they are let in under the rules and not given precedence over those who have been in line, fine, go ahead.
It seems that most of the institutions of higher learning have forgotten what their purpose is and instead strive to have the most bling... people or programs or things.
Let me stop you right there with three points.
1. No one is saying that US students are passed over foreign ones. Do you have proof that this is what is happening?
2. The truth of the matter is that US students are not going in droves into STEM fields at the 4-year level, let alone the grad level. This is the truth. Suck on it and deal with it. The US STEM intelligentsia is disproportionally composed of foreign-born nationals. US students do not get passed over. They simply chose to study for Marketing or Creative Writing.
3. Why not use tax payers to get the best and brightest from abroad to study here and become US nationals? That's better use of of taxpayers money (my money, your money) than funding yet another graduate in Creative Writing burdened by a $100K loan.
It was a foreign-born citizen who created USB, and another one who helped create google. And many more created a lot more shit while the rest of us were content studying for useless degrees, while complaining why US students get passed over (which is not true.)
A little bit more perspective and a little less of this stupid faux victim look-at-me syndrome is what you need.
There is a lot of false on this thread. An OPT is crucial for the best and the brightest. A F-1 student is not granted the intent to immigrate. They are considered as visitors. Even during OPT they are F-1 students who are supposed to return home after the OPT. OPT status lets the students move jobs and companies don't have to pay through their nose to get someone who is working elsewhere working on an OPT.
A H1-b on the other hand has a dual intent. Every single time an employee leaves a company and switches to another the company has to pay $2000 to $5000 in H1b fees and there is almost a doubling of that as the lawyers fees. So it's $10,000 for a transfer. This means these employees don't switch jobs. They will work with increasing workloads at a lower pay scale. The H1-b program helps companies to lock down talent. The lower end jobs are all filled with this now. They will stay lower end forever on a H1b unless a green card is filed for. Guess what? The green cards take donkeys years for some countries. 10 or 15 in some cases. They can't really do anything but be slave labor during that time. Some of these people did come here on merit scholarships. They have to retard their careers to stay on. Many choose not to stay on to get a green card. A H1-b needs to be paid way way more than the prevailing wages now. There is a labor certification and the wages cited are ridiculous. It's double the current actual wages in some cases. So the H1-b program is the least useful for the best and the brightest. They are the best and the brightest but you don't pay that to someone based on one interview. You want to see them work. It's not possible through a resume screening or through an interview.
H1-b fee increases are horrible to say the least. The OPT extension is only on three areas. The OPT students are the least of the problem. They compete as equal entry level workers. A H-1b out of his job for even a day is out of status. He won't even have time to sell his furniture. There is an off the books grace period of 30 days. Yep off the books 30 days to ship out after selling all they paid for at fire sale prices. The H1-b makes them neo-slave labor. This is the reality. This comment will probably be modded down.
The solution is to either do away with the H1-B and F-1 visas or to make it easy for H1-B's to switch jobs. An automatic entitlement to file for a green card after 5 years on H1-B as opposed to the company sponsoring H1-B. It's no more harmful than lottery visas. In fact if someone has been on a H1-b for five years now they are possibly better than their equivalent American worker. They earn less and do more work due to the difficulty of switching now. So why do away with excellent workers.
The other problem is F-1 and H1-B are related. If foreign students don't feel they have a shot at permanent visa many of them won't come to US. It's probably horribly expensive for some of them from countries where the income levels are 1/50th of American levels. They spend everything they have to get here. If there is no OPT the American university system will crumble. Some countries have already started opening up their doors to joint degrees in their countries. Singapore is an example. This will prevent the outflow of foreign exchange. The American professors will still be paid but fewer returns for the university ecosystem in US. Students spend money to live in US, if they earn they pay their taxes. All of that is gone. It's a big deal. So in real economic terms the US has been stupid and regressive with the H1-B fee hikes. The OPT trick is a gimmick. The admissions in non stem programs with 12 months OPT has gone down drastically. That's thousands of dollars which the universities are not making. It's thousands the American students have to cough up. Most of the foreign graduates are taking up just a few additional seats which will now be vacant.
What's necessary isn't the reaction of companies are cheating on H1-b filings. The xenophobia has to end. It's liberalization of the regime with H1-b po
Hope you have a job. Because programs like this will insure that US graduates get to earn postdoc qualifications in burger-flipping while foreign students that are eager for jobs paying much more than they could get at home will take what employment there is.
Look around and see what other first-world countries are doing for immigration. Most have far more restrictive policies than the US does and is far, far harsher for anyone violating their laws. Overstay your visa in Germany and you will likely be arrested and shipped out of the country. Walk into Mexico and you will find that their border is defended by the Mexican Army, and they do defend their border vigorously, with armed response to invaders.
The US is still allowing huge numbers of legal immigrants in and these people are competing for the same jobs that US graduates are. Absolutely, we can employ cheaper foreign labor in all areas of employment - but we better figure out how to support the jobless that aren't going to get what jobs there are. You see, we finally have the economy that functions without a huge unjustifiable bubble - and at least 30% of the country is unemployed or underemployed. Meaning that STEM graduates are working at McDonalds because there simply aren't the STEM jobs to go around.
And we want to bring in more people for these jobs that will work cheaper? As I said, hope you have a job - because with programs like this you will be supporting 2-3 non-working people. There simply is no choice in the matter any more. We are going to have to return to permanent government support for the folks that aren't working.
Unfortunately, this started under the Bush Administration, so I'm pretty sure that screwing talented students and workers in the United States is one of the things that both parties can agree on.
It is not as if the US is suffering it's highest long-term unemployment since the great depression, or anything like that.
The truth is: 93% of visa workers are ordinary people, doing ordinary jobs. The GAO has proved this.
Visa programs are not designed to let in the "best and brightest" they are designed to replace US workers with cheaper foreign workers.
The GAO has proved that 93% of visa workers do not work at the advanced level, and 54% of visa workers are entry level.
These visa programs are designed to replace US workers with cheaper offshore workers.
Hope you have a job. Because programs like this will insure that US graduates get to earn postdoc qualifications in burger-flipping while foreign students that are eager for jobs paying much more than they could get at home will take what employment there is.
Life isn't a zero-sum game. It's entirely possible for you and me to both have jobs.
Look around and see what other first-world countries are doing for immigration. Most have far more restrictive policies than the US does and is far, far harsher for anyone violating their laws. Overstay your visa in Germany and you will likely be arrested and shipped out of the country. Walk into Mexico and you will find that their border is defended by the Mexican Army, and they do defend their border vigorously, with armed response to invaders.
Wow, that explains why Mexico is so prosperous and stable.
The US is still allowing huge numbers of legal immigrants in and these people are competing for the same jobs that US graduates are. Absolutely, we can employ cheaper foreign labor in all areas of employment - but we better figure out how to support the jobless that aren't going to get what jobs there are. You see, we finally have the economy that functions without a huge unjustifiable bubble - and at least 30% of the country is unemployed or underemployed. Meaning that STEM graduates are working at McDonalds because there simply aren't the STEM jobs to go around.
Limiting the number of people isn't going to help. Like I mentioned before -- not a zero sum game. More people => more need for stuff => more jobs.
And we want to bring in more people for these jobs that will work cheaper?
Do you want to work in a field, picking vegetables? No? Are you willing to pay twice as much for all of your vegetables? No? Then stop making life even harder for the people with the worst jobs. Immigrants work most of our crap jobs because Americans *won't do them for any amounts of money*.
Actually it's probably a negative-sum, because a lot of migrants not only take jobs, but they send their wages out of the country, and often receive more in government benefits than they've paid for. They may lower prices, but the cost of labor is a tiny fraction of prices, and any business's priority is amassing profits first. No, 5% cheaper broccoli does not justify disrupting law and order, undermining the political system, and engaging in human trafficking on a massive scale
If America is indeed a meritocracy, that means then that Americans are not as qualified to hold that job as the foreigners are. So now you are faced with a couple of decisions:
* you make hiring decisions not based on merit, but based on whether a person is related to you. In other words, you turn the US from a meritocracy into an aristocracy.
* you decide that the foreigners are getting too much of a leg up, because any bonus to immigrants gives them too much of a leg up over Americans. In which case, you are tacitly admitting that the US is really just the same as all other countries, and American exceptionalism is dead.
* you decide that all economists are wrong, and that there really is just a static set of jobs available, that putting someone unqualified in a position has no impact on the overall economy, and by the way, isolationism works just splendidly.
* you decided that the economists might be right, but that you just don't like foreigners. In which case, you just proved the old saw that nobody hates new immigrants like old immigrants.
In other words: get the fuck out of my country. Oh, and all you upmodders - the same goes for you.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
"Computer-related H-1Bs have a median age of 27.4; 52% have less than 2 years of experience, and another 41% have 2-5 years."
Only 3% of a typical MSFT H-1B visa intake are US DoL level-four workers -- i.e., do work that requires independent judgment. Most H-1b use "level one" which is 17th percentile of U.S. wages -- $10k to $15k below what average-skilled Americans get paid. The 75th percentile for pay of new H-1B computing professionals was just $60K, below the median, in FY2005. Phiroz Vandrevala admitted that "Our wage per employee is 20%-25% lesser than US wage for a similar employee."
DoL PERM data show that the average H-1B worker sponsored for a green card is paid a tiny fraction of one percent above the median wage for the industry (Matloff found 109%, whle Perelman claimed 121% for the same prominent firm), not the 150% or 200% or 300% one would expect the very "best and brightest" to deserve. DoL is required by law to reject any H-1B or green card application that lists a salary below prevailing wage, so the ratios of actual to prevailing wage should never be below 1.00. Even "Einstein" workers on O-1 visas at MSFT were paid only 140.4% of the median.
Half of the 52,352 H-1B computing professionals admitted in FY2005 earned less than entry-level wages. 56% of the H-1B applications for computing jobs were for the lowest skill level, 'Level 1'.
The "prevailing wage" requirement is a fraud, since the name gives the impression that it requires paying the actual, previously existing market compensation for the same work, done by someone with the same talent, knowledge, credentials, experience, etc., while, in actuality, it allows the guest-worker to be paid significantly less. Census data, the INS/USCIS H-1B data, and the DoL green card (PERM) data all show a pattern of paying the H-1B grantees less than comparable American STEM workers.
"STEM foreign students at U.S. universities tend to be at the less-selective universities [and] Most foreign workers work at or near entry level, described by the Department of Labor in terms akin to apprenticeship."
When Industry wants more cheap H-1B labor these are "highly skilled" workers. When it comes to determining how much they have to pay, they suddenly become "low skilled". DoL ETA has shown several times that it has perverse notion of "state-of-the-art" "highly skilled occupations".
The 3 most-needed reforms to the E-3, H-1B, J, L, and even O visa programs are (1) put in place some reasonable minimal competence/skill standards which applicants need to meet, (2) reduce the numbers of such visas, and (3) run reasonable and proper background investigations on every visa applicant.