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Ray Bradbury Has Died

dsinc was the first to note, but an anonymous reader writes "Ray Bradbury, author of Fahrenheit 451, the dystopian novel about the logical conclusion of many trends in modern society, and many other works that have inspired fans of speculative fiction for decades, has died at the age of 91 in Los Angeles, California, Tuesday night, June 5th, 2012. No details on how he died were released, but I suspect it may have had something to do with the Earth orbiting the sun over 90 times since he was born. I guess we'll have to wait to be sure."

315 comments

  1. The most human side of scifi... by Art+Popp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...is found in that man's works. He is the reason my Mom understands the wonder of extraterrestrial life, the temptations and costs of technological solutions to social problems, and has any clue as to what her son is thinking.

    I owe that man a great deal more than I've spent on his books.

    1. Re:The most human side of scifi... by elgeeko.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Very well put. He made a huge impact on me growing up. A lot of people think of him as only a Sci-Fi writer, but his works went way beyond that. My wife is anything buy a Scifi fan, but she was deeply influenced by Bradbury and his "Zen and the Art of Writing". He was a true master and will be deeply missed.

    2. Re:The most human side of scifi... by YodasEvilTwin · · Score: 3, Funny

      I read The Martian Chronicles as a very young child. Pretty sure that completely f*cked me up.

    3. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Cornwallis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, very well put. Fahrenheit 451 was so far ahead of the times it is frightening.
      His poetic use of the language will be sorely missed.
      Something Wicked This Way Comes, Dandelion Wine, The Martian Chronicles... beautiful works.

    4. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Kiyyik · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Amen to that... more than his hard SF work, his stories of sheer damn everyday magic -- and I'm talking Dandelion Wine here, and Death is a Lonely Business, and so many others, captivated the hell out of me. He was the high water mark of what speculative fiction can accomplish, and taught me what SF is really about. When a reader told me my writing was alike a cross between Bradbury and Lovecraft, it was the best thing ever. Tonight... well, tonight I have a jug of dandelion wine sitting in my fridge--liquid summer, my first attempt but no less sweet. Tonight I'll raise a glass to him, and remember the long ago summers and the magic they held and the man who taught me to see them. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

    5. Re:The most human side of scifi... by danbuter · · Score: 2

      RIP Mr. Bradbury. You were a great inspiration to me. I'm glad you got to live such a long life, and I hope you realize how many people you influenced so positively.

    6. Re:The most human side of scifi... by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Same here. Pretty bizarre stuff. I also remember the first time I read Something Wicked This Way Comes. Scared the shit out of me. We've lost one of the great ones.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2

      >I owe that man a great deal more than I've spent on his books.

      I agree completely. By the age of fourteen, I had read everything in our public library by the man. He had a tremendous influence on me as I grew up.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    8. Re:The most human side of scifi... by morcego · · Score: 1

      I read it when I was very young also, and it f*cked me up in a different way: it created higher expectations for the books I read after. You see, I had no idea who Ray Bradbury was back then, and I figured he was not a big name.

      Good memories.

      --
      morcego
    9. Re:The most human side of scifi... by muindaur · · Score: 1

      Fahrenheit 451 scared the shit out of me, but I'm also a book worm.

      All those books... *shudders* ...those monsters...

    10. Re:The most human side of scifi... by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He was the only author that was required reading in school (in several grades no less) that I still enjoyed on my own time as well. Not even English teachers can screw up Bradbury's works.

    11. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Canazza · · Score: 2

      "You're afraid of making mistakes. Don't be. Mistakes can be profited by. Man, when I was young I shoved my ignorance in people's faces. They beat me with sticks. By the time I was forty my blunt instrument had been honed to a fine cutting point for me. If you hide your ignorance, no one will hit you and you'll never learn."

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    12. Re:The most human side of scifi... by koyangi · · Score: 1

      When a reader told me my writing was alike a cross between Bradbury and Lovecraft, it was the best thing ever.

      Bradbury and Lovecraft combined ??? Where can I get me some of that???

    13. Re:The most human side of scifi... by SteveFoerster · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, very well put. Fahrenheit 451 was so far ahead of the times it is frightening.

      Far ahead when it was written, perhaps. As he himself put it, "I don't try to describe the future. I try to prevent it."

      --
      Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
    14. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Take a day and spend some time reading (or listening) to Bradbury's many short fiction works. That's what I will be doing:

      Ray Bradbury - complete Free Download
      http://www.torrentz.eu/36aa4f06780dc60cf4d5da0cb67232dfda52547e

      Ray Bradbury Audio Book Collection http://www.seedpeer.me/details/2909203/Ray-Bradbury-Audio-Book-Collection...

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    15. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Calydor · · Score: 1

      I am confused by your post and your signature.

      Are you for or against taking a copy of whatever you want?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    16. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I grew up in a household where violence against us kids was common place. I was the youngest. I had it made. I'd just watch my brother begin to screw up on the corner...wait for dad's reaction and accordingly adjust my behavior lest I get the crap kicked out of me. Worked pretty well for me.

      Sadly, my older brother doesn't get along with dad even to day - no ones blames him.

    17. Re:The most human side of scifi... by SolitaryMan · · Score: 0

      Same here.

      I remember I read one of his books and absolutely loved it. After that I was telling people that I like to read Sci-Fi. Friends started recommending me books, but the more I read what they recommended, the more I was going "WTF is this crap?".

      Indeed, we've lost a true Master today.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    18. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FIXED LINK: http://www.seedpeer.me/details/2909203/Ray-Bradbury-Audio-Book-Collection.html
      I'm for copyright but only for one generation (20 years). The purpose of art is to enrich culture by becoming past of the shared public property. Example: The movie As The Clouds Rolled By is now public domain and free to view..... would we be better off, if it was copyrighted and locked in some MGM vault somewhere? No. Culture is meant to be shared.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    19. Re:The most human side of scifi... by NetNinja · · Score: 1

      Well said. +10

    20. Re:The most human side of scifi... by jazzmans · · Score: 5, Interesting

      http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+beggar+on+Dublin+bridge.-a03579795

      "A fool,' I said. "That's what I am.'

      "Why?' asked my wife. "What for?'

      I brooded by our third-floor hotel window. On the Dublin street below a man passed, his face to the lamplight. "Him,' I muttered. "Two days ago----'

      Two days ago as I was walking along, someone had "hissed' me from the hotel alley. "Sir, it's important! Sir!'

      I turned into the shadow. This little man in the direct tones said, "I've a job in Belfast if I just had a pound for the train fare!'

      I hesitated.

      "A most important job!' he went on swiftly. "Pays well! I'll--I'll mail you back the loan! Just give me your name and hotel----'

      He knew me for a tourist. But it was too late; his promise to pay had moved me. The pound note crackled in my hand, being worked free from several others.

      The man's eye skimmed like a shadowing hawk. "If I had two pounds, I could eat on the way----'

      I uncrumpled two bills.

      "And three pounds would bring the wife----'

      I unleafed a third.

      "Ah, hell!' cried the man. "Five, just five poor pounds, would find us a hotel in that brutal city and let me get to the job, for sure!'

      What a dancing fighter he was, light on his toes, weaving, tapping with his hands, flicking with his eyes, smiling with his mouth, jabbing with his tongue.

      "Lord thank you, bless you, sir!'

      He ran, my five pounds with him. I was half in the hotel before I realized that, for all his vows, he had not recoreded my name. "Gah!' I cried then.

      "Gah!' I cried now at the window. For there, passing below, was the very fellow who should have been in Belfast two nights ago.

      "Oh, I know him,' said my wife. "He stopped me this noon. Wanted train fare to Galway.'

      "Did you give it to him?'

      "No,' said my wife simply.

      Then the worst thing happened. The demon glanced up, saw us and darned if he didn't wave!

      I had to stop myself from waving back. A sickly grin played on my lips. "It's got so I hate to leave the hotel,' I said.

      "It's cold out, all right.'

      "No,' I said. "Not the cold. Them.'

      And we looked again from the window. There was the cobbled Dublin street with the night wind blowing in a fine soot along one way to Trinity College, another to St. Stephen's Green. Across by the sweet shop two men stood mummified in the shadows. Farther up in a doorway was a bundle of old newspapers that would stir like a pack of mice and wish you the time of evening if you walked by. Below, by the hotel entrance, stood a feverish hothouse rose of a woman with a bundle.

      "Oh, the beggars,' said my wife.

      "No, not just "oh, the beggars,'' I said. "But, oh, the people in the streets, who somehow became beggars.'

      My wife peered at me. "You're not afraid of them?'

      "Yes, no. Hell. It's that woman with the bundle who's worst. She's a force of nature, she is. Assaults you with her poverty. As for the others-- well, it's a big chess game for me now. We've been in Dublin--what?--eight weeks? Eight weeks I've sat up here with my typewriter, and studied their off hours and on. When they take a coffee break, I take one, run for the sweet shop, the bookstore, the Olympia Theatre. If I time it right, there's no handout, no my wanting to trot them into the barbershop or the kitchen.'

      "Lord,' said my wife, "you sound driven.'

      "I am. But most of all by that beggar on O'Connell Bridge!'

      "Which one?'

      "Which one, indeed! He's a wonder, a terror. I hate him, I love him. To see is to disbelieve him. Come on.'

      On the way down in the elevator my wife said, "If you held your face right, the beggars wouldn't bother you.'

      "My face,' I explained patiently, "is my face. It's from Apple Dumpling, Wisconsin, Sarsaparilla, Maine. KIND TO DOGS is writ on my brow for all to read. Let the street be empty-- then let me step out and there's a strikers' march of freeloader

      --
      Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans. No-one sees motorcycles
    21. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      What the hell dude?

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    22. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Widowwolf · · Score: 1

      Add in Neal Stephenson and you have my new Deity!

      --
      ~~"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~~Dennis Miller
    23. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While not my favorite of his works, "The Murderer"* seems to me to be his most prescient story, and one I can relate to. People think I'm odd/nuts/weird/crazy because I use an outdated flip-phone instead of an smartphone or because I have hobbies like do things like go hiking or carpentry, instead of watching TV/movies all day. Everytime I read that story, I'm reminded of my college roommate who would play video-games while listening to music with the TV constantly on.

      * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderer

    24. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad torrent. Shouldn't be using the pirate bay tracker.

      Torrent hash: 36AA4F06780DC60CF4D5DA0CB67232DFDA52547E

    25. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Calydor · · Score: 2

      Since I'm in an argumentative mood today, I went to take a look at the link. Sadly there's no list of the torrent's contents, but I trust that - following your own convictions regarding copyright lengths - you've checked that nothing written/recorded since 1992 is present in it?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    26. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Pope · · Score: 1

      Ew. Neal's too much of a hack, in love with his own cleverness, to be at the same level as Bradbury and Lovecraft.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    27. Re:The most human side of scifi... by thomst · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Art Popp commented::

      ...is found in that man's works. He is the reason my Mom understands the wonder of extraterrestrial life, the temptations and costs of technological solutions to social problems, and has any clue as to what her son is thinking.

      I owe that man a great deal more than I've spent on his books.

      No, no, NO. Ray Bradbury was a great, poetic writer, but he was NOT a science fiction writer. Period. He, himself, always characterized his work as fantasy, and I couldn't more enthusiastically agree.

      I've been reading science fiction since I was six years old, and I never considered Bradbury as an sf writer, even when I was a child. Mainly, that's because there's NO science in his fiction. Poetry, yes. Horror? Plenty of that. Magic? It's ubiquitous in Bradbury. But science? Uh, uh.

      Take "The Veldt", for instance, where a 3-D immersive wall display somehow turns into a portal into an actual African veldt, complete with a pride of hungry lions. Horripilating fiction, yes - but not SCIENCE fiction. It -like pretty much all of Bradbury's work - is fantasy dressed up in science fiction clothes.

      I always resented the goddamned media portraying Ray Bradbury as a science fiction author, all the while ignoring his contemporaries (Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein, Anderson, etc.) who actually WERE science fiction authors. Back in the 60's, whenever there was some major science-y news story, they'd trot poor old Ray out, and present him to the unwashed masses as "science fiction author Ray Bradbury". And Bradbury, of course, would have noting of value to say about the science aspect of the story, because HE WASN'T A SCIENCE FICTION AUTHOR. In fact, one of my absolute fondest memories was the extended conversation between Walter Cronkhite, Robert Heinlein, and Arthur Clarke during the wee hours of the morning on July 21, 1969, while the Apollo 11 astronauts spent 6 hours sleeping prior to that first, historic step onto the Moon. One of the things that I most appreciated about that redeye special was the fact that RAY BRADBURY WASN'T PART OF IT. It increased my already considerable respect for Uncle Walter by a non-trivial margin, let me tell you.

      Don't get me wrong, here. I enjoyed Ray Bradbury's work. He was an engaging writer, whose prose style often read like blank verse. I just never considered him to be a science fiction writer - AND NEITHER DID HE.

      And, btw, if you want to read the work of a master of the human side of science fiction, try the late, great Theodore Sturgeon. HE was an amazing science fiction writer, whose work often reads like poetry, but, unlike Bradbury's, it was ACTUAL science fiction, not fantasy dressed up in scifi clothes ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
    28. Re:The most human side of scifi... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      My mom used to read to me from Bradbury and Asimov, and by doing so sparked a lifetime love of science and sci/fi. RIP Mr. Bradbury, you truly earned your place at the top.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Kiyyik · · Score: 1

      *hee* it's been a few years. Writing workshop, actually. These days I mostly write nonfiction: articles, critical pieces, that sort of thing. Actually, I do have a couple stories in the fire...I should really pick 'em up, get back to it...

    30. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Click the link. It was a Ray Bradbury short story from 1985.

    31. Re:The most human side of scifi... by jgrahn · · Score: 1

      ...is found in that man's works.

      You obviously haven't read Edgar Pangborn or Theodore Sturgeon. What's special about Bradbury is that he wasn't just good; he also escaped the ghetto.

    32. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter. I also think once the original author (or authors) dies then the copyright dies with him, just as an engineer does not expect to keep being paid when he is now a corpse & no longer showing-up to work.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    33. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes but he didn't have to waste 10 pages of screens to quote it on /. when he had already provided the link for us to read.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    34. Re:The most human side of scifi... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      At the point you read the stories they may have appeared to you as fantasy, at the point he wrote them it was SF.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    35. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This is why I don't read fiction. All that prose and it's totally unclear what we're supposed to take away from it. What's the point of this story?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    36. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And who's to say we're not headed toward that same place, albeit down a different path? When e-books take over, and printing dead-tree books becomes economically untenable, most books (if not all) will probably eventually be delivered electronically. As long as you get to keep the files for those books, in unencrypted format, i.e. HTML, etc., it's fine. But if the providers of e-books all end up going the way Amazon has, encrypting books so you can only read them on a device they approve, they can edit, (i.e., to change facts in a book, a-la "we've ALWAYS been at war with Eurasia...") censor, (change or remove words deemed offensive***), or take from you outright, books you thought you had PURCHASED at will.

      If the publishing industry adopts the same "customers are thieves" attitude that the music and movie industries have, this may very well come to pass. If it becomes trivially easy for the purveyors of texts to alter, or even take them away from you, how simple will that make the government insisting they take some one or more books out of circulation after a whole bunch of copies have been sold? Very easy, indeed almost trivial, compared to how hard it would be to round up the same number of copies of a book sold, that were printed on actual paper.

      Before long, if it isn't happening already, the government will be able to learn exactly what you have bought to read, and may have read, and regulate what you can and can't read, without having to have "firemen" burst into your "flat", douse the place with kerosene and light it.

      *** My introduction to the works of Ray Bradbury was in middle school, we were given fresh new copies of "Fahrenheit 451", which was a new edition, circa 1987. A new afterword from the late Mr. Bradbury was in the back, and our English teacher had us read that together, in class. In it, Bradbury fumed that some publisher of his books had quietly and systematically edited his novel, a novel that dealt principally, I felt after reading it (okay, I'm lying... after reading part of the book and then watching the movie...) I felt it was mainly about the logical conclusion that can be drawn from a censorship-society, as technology became more sophisticated.

      In it, as I recall there was an insult about old English teachers with "milquetoast teeth" and another about how it bothered him that they removed every instance of "damn" and "hell", the phrase "god-light", and any word that would "make a sub-moron's mouth twitch", or some such thing. It seemed pretty blistering to a 7th grader...

      Our teacher then asked us, as she seemed to possess a rigidly G-Rated kind of mentality, to take a pen or magic marker, and blacken-out every instance of "damn", "hell", etc. that we came across. I wasn't sure if it was a test, or if she was joking... needless to say though, I didn't do it...

      That would have required actually READING the book, and I simply could not be bothered after about the first 20 or 30 pages. I just rented the movie on VHS instead. I think I got a C- in the class, which should not surprise anyone.

    37. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      We all know that Screens are in short supply!

    38. Re:The most human side of scifi... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      ... at the point he wrote them it was SF.

      Uh, no. They weren't. Pure science fiction has a fairly strict (and crisp) definition, having to do with extrapolary fiction based on changes in technological and scientific breakthroughs. From this point of view, at most, part of the Martian Chronicles and Farenheit 451 could be characterized at science fiction. Most of his other works were clearly of the fantasy genre.

      And he never considered himself a science fiction writer - only a writer. Sort of like Harlan Ellison in that. In fact, I like to think of Harlan as a younger, edgier, more assholey Ray, although he's closer to worm food each day, too, God love them both.

      --
      That is all.
    39. Re:The most human side of scifi... by RadioElectric · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fiction is for making you think, not for telling you what to think.

    40. Re:The most human side of scifi... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      My parent claimed that Mars Chronicles where not SF but fantasy ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    41. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Make me think about what exactly? Why are the mundane conversations of imaginary people worth thinking about? The only thing any work of fiction ever made me think was "wtf is the point of this?".

      Non-fiction on the other hand makes me think. The work makes a claim, and I have to think about whether that claim is true or false. Then I have to think about what the implications are of that claim. If a work fails to make a claim, there's not much point in reading it as far as I can tell.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    42. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TL;DR

    43. Re:The most human side of scifi... by TuringTest · · Score: 1

      It has to be sad, to see the world and all meanings only in terms of true and false. You have never enjoyed evocation?

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    44. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My favorite memory of Bradbury is that in 8th grade a friend of mine did a research project in which he wrote to many authors to ask them their favorite books, and from Ray Bradbury he received a fancy sheet of stationery with a friendly handwritten response beginning something like, "Hello, Kenneth, here's my list!". That was more than 25 years ago and I still think of it when I think of Ray Bradbury, that he was kind enough to reply so personally.

      Incidentally, some years before that I wrote to an address on a Steve Martin comedy record and received an odd reply -- a xeroxed copy of a letter with blanks which were filled in in pen, something like "Dear [John], I remember when we walked together at the [beach] and collected [rocks]." That impressed me, too.

    45. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Fiction isn't for making you think about anything exactly.

      Maybe you're better off reading Technical Reference Manuals.

      You're likely to never 'get it.' It's a pity, too.

    46. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1

      I am confused by your post and your signature.

      Are you for or against taking a copy of whatever you want?

      This has already been covered on Slashdot [just a few days ago]. See:

      http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/03/0132236/copyright-infringer-tries-to-shut-down-reporting-on-her-infringement

      --
      Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
    47. Re:The most human side of scifi... by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      I'll toast to this.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    48. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: Bradbury was one of my favorite authors.

      Most of his stories have a twist at the end which cast the rest of the story in a completely different light. Many of the old Twilight Zone episodes (nearly all the best ones IMHO) are based on his stories. In this particular one he explores the question: who are the nameless beggars we see on the streets? He runs through the gamut of typical answers: scam artists, objects to be pitied, obstacles to be avoided, those down on their luck, liars, victims of personal tragedy, unfriendly scrounges who make you resent giving them anything, etc.

      At the end he gives his answer: They're people, just like yourself, who think and wonder the same things you do, just from a different place.

      Least that's what I got from it.

    49. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Martian Chronicles ... to this day that book shapes some fundamental aspect of how I interact with the world. Some days I go outside and wonder what these strange looking creatures are that live and drive around in little boxes!

    50. Re:The most human side of scifi... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Darn, I was going to say that 'screen' only supported 10 screens, but it's just 10 that you can use # shortcuts for.

    51. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tl;dr

    52. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just wonder what the hell the "Read the rest of this comment..." link is for, if not this.

    53. Re:The most human side of scifi... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      I don't understand what one person being paid (or not) has to do with another person.... Maybe it is because it doesn't. But, let us say I died before I got my paycheck. Not only would I expect to still get paid, but my beneficiaries would also expect to get paid.

    54. Re:The most human side of scifi... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      This has already been covered on Slashdot [just a few days ago]. See:

      Are you saying the cpu6502 discussed how he is for or against copyrights? He obviously condones copying copyrighted works, and yet talks about a "nutty" copyright thief.

    55. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

      "That the poor are invisible is one of the most important things about them. They are not simply neglected and forgotten as in the old rhetoric of reform; what is much worse, they are not seen."

      --- Michael Harrington

    56. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think there will only be something to take away if you are capable of reassessing your own judgments.

      You should be able to logically determine that coming to a false/true conclusion often means that you're fooling yourself? So then you can intentionally fool yourself with fiction in order to maintain an open mind on the premises that you take for granted.

    57. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I can see how that would be the message of that story. But it strikes me how it took Micheal Harrington one sentence to say what Bradbury couldn't convey in pages of fiction.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    58. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

      I'm tempted to reply to that with a condescending analogy about making love or cooking... or hey, why not cut to the chase, ie. the heat death of the universe? :P

      But you have a point, and not a minor one: even though I like fiction myself, I cannot think of any fiction that would get a point across better than a person honestly, directly (and maybe eloquently) stating how they, the real person, feel and/or think about X. Still, yay for Ray Bradbury, and thanks for all the fish :)

    59. Re:The most human side of scifi... by thomst · · Score: 1

      angel'o'sphere posited:

      At the point you read the stories they may have appeared to you as fantasy, at the point he wrote them it was SF.

      Uh ... no. No, they weren't. I read the majority of his stories AT THE TIME THEY WERE PUBLISHED.

      Again, what part of "Ray Bradbury always referred to HIMSELF as a fantasist, not a science fiction writer" is unclear to you?"

      A 3-D video-wall with Smell-O-Vision that somehow magically transforms into the actual African veldt is NOT science fiction, regardless of how you slice it. It's Stephen King-style horror fantasy. That's true of the vast majority of Bradbury's so-called "science fiction" stories, including the entirety of The Martian Chronicles.

      --
      Check out my novel.
    60. Re:The most human side of scifi... by frost_knight · · Score: 1

      Humans are storytelling creatures.

      For many moons we've sat around campfires, hearths, lamps, and glowing rectangles telling each other stories -- about the hunt, the weather, myths, fables, our neighbours, ourselves, the day's work, and even math problems. Sometimes we stick to the facts, but often the teller exagerrates, embellishes, or flat out lies. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, or so it goes.

      Fiction is part of the human condition.

      --
      It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. --Hofstadter's Law
    61. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 0

      Fcuk him. He's DEAD okay? I am sick-and-tired of this bullshit where Mark Twain is sitll getting paid when he's been a rotten skeleton for ~100 years!!! Damn the fucklign 120-year-long coypright into dmanation.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    62. Re:The most human side of scifi... by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>We all know that Screens are in short supply!

      2 or 3GB bandwidth caps DO place limits on the net. It's the same reason it's considered poor netiquette to copy-and-paste a WHOLE message when you reply to someone. You're wasting their bandwidth (which they are paying for).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    63. Re:The most human side of scifi... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Again, what part of "Ray Bradbury always referred to HIMSELF as a fantasist, not a science fiction writer" is unclear to you?"
      Unlear for me is that he did that :D

      And clear for me is that mars chronicals is SF.

      OTOH most of the categories are not well defined. And frankly I'm a bit tired about this. Is star wars fantasy or SF or is it science fantasy (what ever that is supposed to mean)?

      A 3-D video-wall with Smell-O-Vision that somehow magically transforms into the actual African veldt is NOT science fiction,
      Sorry this makes not much sense. Wether it is SF or fantasy can not be decided on this single sentence, but only in context.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    64. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Card+Zero · · Score: 1

      It's possible that people like Michael Harrington are able to say things like this in one sentence because people like Ray Bradbury sparked their imaginations with pages of fiction.

    65. Re:The most human side of scifi... by thomst · · Score: 1

      angel'o'sphere blathered:

      Again, what part of "Ray Bradbury always referred to HIMSELF as a fantasist, not a science fiction writer" is unclear to you?" Unlear for me is that he did that :D

      Because you don't know anything about the man. Here's just one (hint: try the second-to-last paragraph on for size) of many citations of his description of his own work as fantasy, not science fiction.

      And clear for me is that mars chronicals is SF.

      See above.

      OTOH most of the categories are not well defined. And frankly I'm a bit tired about this. Is star wars fantasy or SF or is it science fantasy (what ever that is supposed to mean)?

      You consider the categories of sf vs. fantasy ill-defined because you're an ignoramous.

      Star Wars falls within the subset of sf called "Space Opera". It misses being fantasy by grace of the pseudo-scientific explanation of The Force being a product of midichlorians.

      A 3-D video-wall with Smell-O-Vision that somehow magically transforms into the actual African veldt is NOT science fiction, Sorry this makes not much sense. Wether it is SF or fantasy can not be decided on this single sentence, but only in context.

      Horseshit, sailor.

      Bradbury proposes no mechanism by which the veldt display becomes an actual veldt. That's because it's a horror story, not sf.

      You are a nincompoop, Angelo. Your argumentum consists exclusively of sticking your fingers in your ears, firmly shutting your eyes, and screaming, "No, no, no, no, NO!" at the top of your lungs.

      I think you need a time-out.

      --
      Check out my novel.
    66. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but he didn't have to waste 10 pages of screens to quote it on /. when he had already provided the link for us to read.

      ...a link that you probably wouldn't have been arsed to click on and follow...genius, he had us reading the whole damn thing...hoping to fins some /. insight snuck in on the way.

      Way to go, is all I say

    67. Re:The most human side of scifi... by idontgno · · Score: 1

      That has got to be the most ironically long-winded "tl;dr" I may have even seen.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    68. Re:The most human side of scifi... by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1

      This has already been covered on Slashdot [just a few days ago]. See:

      Are you saying the cpu6502 discussed how he is for or against copyrights? He obviously condones copying copyrighted works, and yet talks about a "nutty" copyright thief.

      No, I was merely posting a link to the slashdot discussion about the "nutty" person (please do read the article first).

      That is actually in cpu6502's signature, so I don't think I'd be joining his posting text with his sig and trying to infer anything pro/anti from the juxtaposition of the two since that signature will appear on discussion pages for any topic until it is changed. I've seen few [if any] signatures that were customized for a given topic page.

      The reason that the "nutty" article got any traction on slashdot had less to do with copyright infringement, right or wrong. A photographer [who photographs mostly nature scenes] filed a DMCA against a woman for misuse of his photo. Rather that any direct response on the merits, she accused him of trying to "exploit disabled kids" because she has some non-profit organization going [and the photo might have been on that site or another].

      It got more bizarre because she started threatening her ISP/DNS registrar rather than his about removing the DNS entry for his photography website. The text was bizarre, full of ranting and raving. She's an attorney [it would seem]. If so, her actions might require disciplinary action before her state bar association (e.g. IIRC, [repeatedly] "threatening" to sue is harassment)

      --
      Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
    69. Re:The most human side of scifi... by LienRag · · Score: 1

      Fahrenheit 451 was science-fiction, as was the short story "A rolling thunder" and some (very few, I reckon) of others. Not being hard SF does not prevent a story from being SF...

    70. Re:The most human side of scifi... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the official definition of star wars is "sciense fantasy".
      Space opera is a secondary category, e.g. you couild consider battle star galactica also a space opera.
      Also I don't really get why you arguing with me and even are insulting me, because I'm only a fan and not a how would you call it? A disciple of Bradbury? Why should I be oblieged to know his interviews or the man in person? I read his books, that is enough for me. After all I'm not a literture student or proffesor.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    71. Re:The most human side of scifi... by thomst · · Score: 1

      angel'o'sphere persisted in displaying his ignorance thusly:

      Sorry, the official definition of star wars is "sciense fantasy". Space opera is a secondary category, e.g. you couild consider battle star galactica also a space opera.

      "Official" according to whom?

      And, no, space opera is a category all its own, going back to the late, great E.E. Smith and Edmund Hamilton - and far pre-dating the term "space fantasy"."

      You really don't know ANYTHING about the history of science fiction, do you?

      Also I don't really get why you arguing with me and even are insulting me, because I'm only a fan and not a how would you call it? A disciple of Bradbury? Why should I be oblieged to know his interviews or the man in person? I read his books, that is enough for me. After all I'm not a literture student or proffesor.

      I'm arguing with YOU? Put down the crack pipe, Angelo. YOU took issue with my statement that Bradbury was a fantasist, not a science fiction writer. The way I see it, YOU are arguing with ME.

      Oh, and your arguments are pure tantrum - you WANT Bradbury to have been a science fiction author, so you ignore HIS OWN WORDS to insist that he WAS a science fiction writer. And now you're whinging, because you've lost that argument.

      Learn to lose gracefully, kiddo. From what I've seen here, you'll be doing a lot of it.

      --
      Check out my novel.
    72. Re:The most human side of scifi... by thomst · · Score: 1

      LienRag objected:

      Fahrenheit 451 was science-fiction, as was the short story "A rolling thunder" and some (very few, I reckon) of others.

      Bradbury himself said that Fahrenheit 451 was his only SF novel. I'll give you A Rolling Thunder, as well. That makes them exceptions to the vast majority of Bradbury's works, so my point stands. (And I suspect, from your, "very few, I reckon," that you agree with that point.)

      Not being hard SF does not prevent a story from being SF...

      Absolutely correct. Heinlein's Farnham's Freehold and Asimov's Foundation series both spring to mind as exemplars of "soft" science fiction from contemporaries of Bradbury. Likewise the stories of Clifford Simak, and a lot of Fredrik Pohl's early work. And so on.

      But Bradbury, on the whole, was a fantasist and horror fiction writer, not a science fiction writer. I reached that conclusion when I was eight years old, and have never had reason to change my mind about it.

      Again, I _like_ Bradbury's stuff. I just don't think it belongs in the science fiction section of the library. It's a way more comfortable fit over there on the horror/fantasy shelf with Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, and Whitley Streiber.

      --
      Check out my novel.
    73. Re:The most human side of scifi... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Seems you answered then ton the wrong person?
      I did not argue with you. you arguesd with someone else, and I made supposdly funny comment: "perhaps it was SF when it was published and is fantasy now".

      Regarding "official" last time I checked imdb about star wars it was rated as sciense fantasy.

      YOU took issue with my statement that Bradbury was a fantasist, not a science fiction writer. then go and read the argument, by insulting me constantly you are obviously arguing.

      I did not take any issues with that. Especially as I have no clue what the term "fantasist" is supposed to mean.

      I don't IGNORE HIS OWN WORDS, as I DONT KNOW THEM.

      The only thing I said was: for me Mars Chronicals are SF, if it is different for you or different for him that is fine. Also I would not take one interview (which you seem to refer to) as a definition for his whole work.

      BTW: can a fantasist not at teh same time be an SF author? Sigh, yoiu seem extremely hyper critical regarding the fact we are here only in a discussion forum.

      This: Ray Douglas Bradbury (August 22, 1920 â" June 5, 2012) was an American fantasy, horror, science fiction, and mystery writer.

      Is the first line of his page on Wikipedia. If you know better, then please go there, make an account and fix the page.

      Regadring your repeating of "kiddo", if that is the nick name for kid as I suppose, then please grow up, I'm roughly 5 years younger than you :D

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    74. Re:The most human side of scifi... by thomst · · Score: 1

      angel'o'sphere whinged:

      I did not argue with you. you arguesd with someone else, and I made supposdly funny comment: "perhaps it was SF when it was published and is fantasy now".

      Perhaps the humor in your ACTUAL comment, "At the point you read the stories they may have appeared to you as fantasy, at the point he wrote them it was SF," (note the difference between your portrayal of your comment, and your actual statement: in the original, there is no "perhaps," and you make an entirely unwarranted assumption about the context in which I read Bradbury's work) is obvious to you - but you're the only one. "Perhaps" that's because your comment wasn't funny at all - it was strictly argumentative.

      Regarding "official" last time I checked imdb about star wars it was rated as sciense fantasy.

      IMDB is hardly an authority on science fiction. This is a fundamental logical error on your part, of the type known as "appeal to authority".

      Also I would not take one interview (which you seem to refer to) as a definition for his whole work

      Again, what part of "I'm not a science fiction writer" IN BRADBURY'S OWN WORDS is unclear to you? Once again, fingers in ears, eyes screwed shut, and shouting, "No, no, no, NO!" at the top of your lungs, you continue to wade deeper into denial OF THE FACTS.

      This: Ray Douglas Bradbury (August 22, 1920 â" June 5, 2012) was an American fantasy, horror, science fiction, and mystery writer.

      Is the first line of his page on Wikipedia. If you know better, then please go there, make an account and fix the page.

      Again with the appeal to authority. Wikipedia is NOT an authority. The fact that any idiot can alter a Wikipedia entry to include personal opinion, counterfactual statements, and/or whole-cloth inventions makes it profoundly worthless as a citable source.

      And I have neither the obligation nor the inclination to waste my energy correcting every mistake in the multi-terabyte Wikipediaverse.

      Regadring your repeating of "kiddo", if that is the nick name for kid as I suppose, then please grow up, I'm roughly 5 years younger than you

      "Kiddo" is a an English idiom. Like "pal" or "buddy", it's a placeholder for the name of a person being addressed. It CAN carry a connotation that the person being addressed is younger, but it does not necessarily imply an age difference. I explain this, because it's clear that English is not your native language, and I don't want you to mistake my meaning. What is important for you to understand about my use of the term is that, most frequently, the word "kiddo" is used to imply either a familiar, affectionate relationship between the speaker and the person being addressed, OR it is used to imply that the person being addressed is less knowlegeable about the subject under discussion than is the speaker. It is the latter context in which I employed it in my exchange with you.

      Now kindly take your fingers out of your ears, open your eyes, and quit denying the facts. And, next time you're tempted to jump into a discussion with what you believe to be a humorous remark, either restrain yourself, or have the sense to stick a smiley on the end of it, to make your intent clear.

      I recommend the former course, btw. Humor is clearly not your strong suit.

      --
      Check out my novel.
  2. He Wanted To Catch Venus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a ride...

  3. "S is for Space" first scifi book I read by peter303 · · Score: 2

    And "R is for Rocket" I read 40-some years ago. They were collections of Bradbury short stories.

    1. Re:"S is for Space" first scifi book I read by s_p_oneil · · Score: 1

      "Frost and Fire" is one of my favorite short stories of all time. Of course, a good number of my favorites are from Ray Bradbury.

    2. Re:"S is for Space" first scifi book I read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truly, "Frost and Fire" is a masterpiece. One of my top 3 short stories.

    3. Re:"S is for Space" first scifi book I read by cvtan · · Score: 1

      +1 Glad you mentioned this story. Also one of my favorites. Anyone who hasn't read this is missing out.

      --
      Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  4. RIP by krakass · · Score: 5, Funny

    Rest in peace, but is it too late to Fuck me, Ray Bradbury?

    1. Re:RIP by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      Thank you; that was a huge LOL.

    2. Re:RIP by Dr+Herbert+West · · Score: 1

      Please mod +1 Awesome.

      I'm super bummed at his passing, and the irreverence, love for his work, and plain ol' good times in that video (I'd forgotten all about it!) made me smile a little while being sad. I forwarded to all my buddies who I know will be just as bummed as myself.

      And whoever modded your post down is a humorless dumbass.

    3. Re:RIP by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Does it matter? As soon as a work of art leaves the creator's hand, it's subject to interpretation by the world, and whatever the world makes out of it is what the piece is about. One thing the world must NOT do, though, is judge the author based on their interpretation. It would be condemning someone as being "evil" for your own "evil thoughts". But I digress.

      The interpretation of a work of art is always, by definition, up to its consumer. I'd think it would be highly ironic if in a work like Fahrenheit the "official" interpretation is pushed onto you. It kinda subverts the message...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:RIP by SolitaryMan · · Score: 1

      I think we are getting closer to finding out the cause of his death.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    5. Re:RIP by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      Note that this song was nominated for a Hugo in 2011. Rachel even came and performed it live at the 2011 Worldcon.

    6. Re:RIP by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Holy crap that was funny. If there is any sense of comedy in the universe Mr. Bradbury saw that before he passed away :)

  5. I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by Gr33nJ3ll0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Obviously this is all about the transition of Venus across the sun. Just like the comet took Mark Twain, Venus has claimed Bradbury!

    1. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by dkleinsc · · Score: 0

      That would be quite a surprise, given all the stuff Bradbury wrote about Mars.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      He wrote stories about Venus, too. The one that has stuck in my mind was the child recently emigrated from earth who missed seeing the sun (because Venus was cloudy and rainy). The school teacher had locked her in the closet for some behavioral thing, and the child missed a brief and rare siting of the sun because of that. He was a master of highlighting the all too human inhumane cruelty that we too often promulgate.

    3. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      That was Bradbury? I remember reading that story in elementary school, back before I could keep track of author's names. That one has stuck with me for probably 3 decades now. I haven't read as much of his stuff as I should, but I've liked what I have read. Time to dig up some classics.

    4. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by thelexx · · Score: 1

      What was the name of that Venus story? I'm rather certain a film version was made of it and I was just recently trying to locate it again. I definitely remember seeing a film about kids on a rainy world many years ago that stuck in my mind, and your description fleshes out the hazy memory of it perfectly.

      --
      "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
    5. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Informative

      All Summer in a Day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Summer_in_a_Day

      I first read it on my own, then was surprised when it showed up in English class a few years later

    6. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by gregg · · Score: 0

      He wrote stories about Venus, too. The one that has stuck in my mind was the child recently emigrated from earth who missed seeing the sun (because Venus was cloudy and rainy).

      The story you are referring to is All Summer in a Day

    7. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by Gr33nJ3ll0 · · Score: 1

      There was also the story in the Illustrated Man about the crewmen of a crashed space ship who are attempting to endure the constant rainfall, looking for a "Sun Station", where they can finally get warm and dry.

    8. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > That would be quite a surprise, given all the stuff Bradbury wrote about Mars.

      Venus was jealous. A woman scorned and all of that.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    9. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by rossdee · · Score: 1

      I guess he couldn't wait until Mars transited the Sun.

    10. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      But Mars isn't between the Earth and the Sun.

    11. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by gawaino · · Score: 1

      Right. But Earth is between Mars and Sun. 10 November 2084: Transit of Earth as seen from Mars "It will be the first and only time this will occur this century, with the next one predicted for 2394. Something for the first colonists of Mars to look forward to." http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/shortcuts/2012/jun/06/transit-venus-what-next

    12. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing we know for sure about cause of death... he didn't die in a plane crash.

    13. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Mars link in Parent should be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Martian_Chronicles

      I thought about Venus too. I hope he had an opportunity to see the transit before he died. It would have been a fitting time to leave.

      Perhaps Venus was jealous about all of the attention Ray gave Mars and eclipsed the life right out of him as revenge.

    14. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by jgrahn · · Score: 1

      All Summer in a Day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Summer_in_a_Day

      I first read it on my own, then was surprised when it showed up in English class a few years later

      Funny; I knew it was Bradbury (read it ~30 years ago) but believed it was about Earth after global warming fucks up the weather, and believed the title was "October Country".

    15. Re:I KNEW Venus was up to no good! by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      If you gotta go, may as well do it on a astronomical significant day.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
  6. damn sad. by grub · · Score: 5, Funny

    I loved his book Celsius 233.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:damn sad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see what you did there!

    2. Re:damn sad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rømer 130 had better characterization.

    3. Re:damn sad. by Tarlus · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the sequel, Kelvin 505.

      --
      /* No Comment */
    4. Re:damn sad. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the typesetters of most countries went into a hissy fit over it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:damn sad. by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Finally, somebody who uses proper scientific units. You are truly the melting point of gold.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    6. Re:damn sad. by Tarlus · · Score: 1

      Even remained consistent with significant figures. =)

      --
      /* No Comment */
    7. Re:damn sad. by stepho-wrs · · Score: 1

      Rankine 911 somehow seems more appropriate.

    8. Re:damn sad. by dosun88888 · · Score: 1

      I need mod points for this one.

  7. Fahrenheit 451 by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

    >> Fahrenheit 451

    So is he going to be cremated with his greatest work then?

    1. Re: Fahrenheit 451 by stud9920 · · Score: 1

      Buryal seems more appropriate

    2. Re: Fahrenheit 451 by Thud457 · · Score: 2

      not gonna tan his hide and turn him into a helicopter then?
      pity.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  8. His most famous work by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fahrenheit 451 wasn't about censorship. I know 100 people who know nothing else about the book except cliff notes or what they got off wikipedia are about to make that comment. So I'll save you the trouble. It was about TV and the mental wasteland that he thought it represented.

    1. Re:His most famous work by ravenshrike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      According to Bradbury it wasn't about censorship. According to everybody else and their mother it WAS about censorship. So clearly the takeaway is that Bradbury sucks at getting his point across.

    2. Re:His most famous work by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      Given the choice between the author of the book and the masses I'm inclined to take the side of the author. That being said, your point that he sucked about getting his point across is one that I have to freely concede.

    3. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to Bradbury it wasn't about censorship. According to everybody else and their mother it WAS about censorship.

      That's why I always hated English class. Being required to infer themes the author may not have intended always upset me.

    4. Re:His most famous work by hal2814 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd side with the masses. It's not particularly important what the author intended. It only matters what people take away from it. However, a contradiction between those two parties doesn't mean an author sucks at getting his/her point across. It just means when the work was released and took on a life of its own, the takeaway was different than what the author originally envisioned. There's nothing wrong with that.

    5. Re:His most famous work by Maskull · · Score: 1

      Not really. I think if you read the book (as I did), not for some high school English class (where you have to find the "correct" meaning or you fail), but on your own, without any preconceptions, it's pretty obvious what he was getting at. He makes it clear that the government, in burning books, is only doing what the people want.

    6. Re:His most famous work by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Given the choice between the author of the book and the masses I'm inclined to take the side of the author.

      Why can't both be right?

    7. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the point was even more subtle and elegant, in that, censorship by whom, that government is not an institution that stands apart from the masses that comprise it; It's a tale of how they had come to those particular ends. Most people were quite taken with the censorship part, whats often misunderstood, is that Bradbury was only trying to tell us that for him the "how" was more important then the "what"

    8. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tl:dr, and totally off topic, Cracked is a bullshit site that deals in half truths

    9. Re:His most famous work by demonbug · · Score: 1

      Fahrenheit 451 wasn't about censorship. I know 100 people who know nothing else about the book except cliff notes or what they got off wikipedia are about to make that comment. So I'll save you the trouble. It was about TV and the mental wasteland that he thought it represented.

      That's what Bradbury said his intention was. As with all literature, the author's intention is only a part of what readers get from the book; often, even usually, there is far more in the work than the author consciously put in. Even the very best of authors are notoriously poor at picking out what their audience will find in their own work.

    10. Re:His most famous work by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      The author's intent and the readership's interpretation need not agree.

      --
      Good-bye
    11. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so different from /., eh?

    12. Re:His most famous work by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, that's because people are stupid and will make the simplest possible connections they can. Book burning, historically, was about specific books. Nazis would burn books with Jewish authors, Christians would burn "satanic" books.

      In Bradbury's novel, they burned ALL books, and never once because anyone disagreed with anything the books said. They burned them because of rampant anti-intellectualism, which was clearly recurring throughout the book. People burn because because they know they're supposed to, and don't care to look into the matter any further. Beatty, Montag's superior, even suggested it was common for firemen to be interested, but they'd grow out of it.

      You only get "censorship" from 451 if you didn't really read it.

    13. Re:His most famous work by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      Except that the book doesn't say anything meaningful about censorship. It's not like 1984, where the point is that those in power have a strong incentive to control everything those under them are exposed to, and if left unchecked would destroy the truth by the time it got to you. Burning books is just something that is done in Fahrenheit 451.

    14. Re:His most famous work by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      It's just like what we are doing now is what the majority of people want to ensure their safety. Why do the want this? TV and now the internet is why? So take it how you want it, the outcome is the same either way.

    15. Re:His most famous work by oodaloop · · Score: 2

      I had a coworker recently tell me about many TVs she had throughout the house. She wanted to get a waterproof one to put outside by the pool, then joked about having a big screen on the bottom of the pool. I said it was like F451, and she had no idea what I meant. I described how there were TV screens everywhere, her eyes lit up and she said, "That would be awesome!" I tried to tell her how it was meant to be a distopia, not a utopia, but gave up after a few minutes.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    16. Re:His most famous work by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      According to Upton Sinclair, The Jungle was about socialism and wage slavery, not corruption and unsanitary practices in the meatpacking business. Still doesn't change how it was received by EVERYONE else, or how it led to the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906.

    17. Re:His most famous work by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      tl:dr, and totally off topic, The Internet is a bullshit place that deals in half truths

      FTFY.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    18. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes it was about a TV fed culture, and the wasteland that created, but if it was only about that then why the Firemen? There is a subtext, that in order for TV to work it had to be free of competition from other creative outlets, and the natural imagination of the populous. Eliminating other entertainment sources was what the Firemen were doing, for the state, who was doing it for the TV industry. If I remember correctly they made excuses like that books made people unhappy, but that does not hold much water. If TV was a real entrainment solution, that made people happier, then it would not need the state to prop it up by sending (and spending for) the Firemen.

    19. Re:His most famous work by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Books tend to have three meanings:
      1) What the author meant
      2) What the reader takes away from the story
      3) What English teacher say the author meant and what they (the teachers) think readers should take away from the story

      1 and 2 are often, but not always, the same. Neither 1 nor 2 are ever the same as 3.

    20. Re:His most famous work by khallow · · Score: 1

      Human society is a bullshit place that deals in half truths

      The retcons continue.

    21. Re:His most famous work by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      And in F451 they were censoring all complex thought. Although I'm not quite sure how they were able to make ultrafast cars when nobody had two neurons to knock together anymore as TV rotted their brains.

    22. Re:His most famous work by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's the fun in art, the interpretation is not always up just to the author. Actually, it should be left to the consumer of art.

      Mr. Lucas, I'm looking at you!

      Fahrenheit is maybe not by itself about censorship, but it does indeed touch that subject quite obviously. Actually, the subject of self-censorship. Books are just the means to an end, in this case, they represent the will to think for yourself and have your own opinion, to refuse to bend to the system, no matter how convenient it might be. It sure is more convenient and much easier to just drift into the offered pleasure world instead of trying to think for yourself and not only invest time, money and energy but also fear prosecution... sounds familiar?

      If written today, he would probably use the internet instead of books for that representation. Though I have no idea what we'd have to burn then. Probably, the title would be the curie temperature of HDDs.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    23. Re:His most famous work by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      You happen to be right, and without question his book led to the incredible benefit that you describe. It is a similar case with Fahrenheit 451, wherein a book that really wasn't about censorship made it reprehensible in the eye of the public to burn books for censorship purposes. Book burning for censorship purposes used to be much more popular than it is today.

      Consider these unforeseen consequences that likely never could have happened other than by accident. Sometimes history has luck work in favor of the public after all.

    24. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't it Vonnegut who found out that some English teacher somewhere was inferring themes/meanings to one of his works that were nowhere near what he'd intended, and then actually contacted the fellow to set him straight?

    25. Re:His most famous work by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If your teacher required that from you in a book discussion, he's an idiot. A book discussion is exactly about this, discussing what you read in a book. Especially with Fahrenheit it would have been quite ironic had your teacher required you to conform to the "official" interpretation.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    26. Re:His most famous work by Monkey-Man2000 · · Score: 1

      Given the choice between the author of the book and the masses I'm inclined to take the side of the author. That being said, your point that he sucked about getting his point across is one that I have to freely concede.

      I don't buy this because it's like saying Ridley Scott knows what he's talking about when he claims that Deckard was a replicant. He clearly wasn't, because 1) it would have ruined the "more human [empathic] than human [the creature]" aspect of the story, and 2) Deckard constantly was getting his ass handed to him by replicants.

      It's also like buying George Lucas now saying that Greedo always shot first.

      --
      This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
    27. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A written work means what the reader interprets it as meaning at the moment it is read. The intentions of the author are just one set of many possible sets of meaning.

    28. Re:His most famous work by identity0 · · Score: 1

      It may have been about TV, but it also featured the burning of all books and arrest of all book-owners by the state, which is actually more extreme than the Soviets or the Nazis. I think only the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia went that far.

      So while it may not have been ABOUT censorship, it was certainly a major theme of the book.

    29. Re:His most famous work by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      Whoops, meant to respond to i kan reed.

    30. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure who said this: "Aimed for the heart and hit the stomach". Maybe it was even Sinclairm himself.

    31. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that in the real world no one burns books except as an attempt at censorship, and Bradbury never really established why they burned books in Fahrenheit 451, so people made the obvious jump.

      Once that jump is made the whole book looks like a commentary on how censorship makes people stupid (or rather ignorant).

      If Bradbury really wanted it to be about how TV made people ignorant because they ignore books, he really should not have made burning the books such a big deal.

    32. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking of the Rodney Dangerfield classic Back to School.

    33. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. It was about censorship for 60 years until 9/11 happened and Bradbury went batshit and decided censorship was awesome as long as the Bush administration was doing it. Then suddenly it was never about censorship.

    34. Re:His most famous work by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      Flip-side: it was the job of the main character, and therefor that character would be more likely to focus on it.

    35. Re:His most famous work by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's still censorship. It's just censorship taken to an extreme.

      It's an overkill approach to suppressing anything that might shake people out of their stupor. The government didn't want anyone to start thinking. Of course the populace were pretty indifferent.

      It wasn't "the will of the people", it was a heavy handed means of asserting control and suppressing ideas.

      Suppressing ideas, even if done very crudely, is what censorship is. The fact that there's a lot of collateral damage doesn't really matter.

      Harlequins were destroyed to make sure that copies of On Walden Pond burned with it.

      The great irony is the fact that the tech he was objecting too ultimately will ensure that such a future cannot happen. I have more books in my transistor radio/phone than any character in Fahrenheit 451.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    36. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't overestimate how much control an author has over the content in the book. A good author will often find his works going in directions that were not intended but followed logically from the characters and settings. Asking an author about the meaning of his work is like asking a historical figure about their impact on history - they're both too close to the subject to be able to give an accurate answer and they're often a bit biased.

    37. Re:His most famous work by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      Why do you call government intervention in the free market an "incredible benefit"? Why do you hate America?

    38. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was about TV and the mental wasteland that he thought it represented.

      But as counter examples to the wasteland we've got Dancing with the stars, Jersey Shore, Survivor (exotic location), soap operas, . . . oh wait, never mind.

    39. Re:His most famous work by RabidReindeer · · Score: 0

      According to Bradbury it wasn't about censorship. According to everybody else and their mother it WAS about censorship. So clearly the takeaway is that Bradbury sucks at getting his point across.

      I wonder myself. When I read it originally, I, too thought it was about censorship. Then again, we lived in fear of "1984" and "Big Brother" getting on TV and telling us how to think and police states where our movements were under constant surveillance.

      I re-read Fahrenheit 451 recently and realized that I'd read it all wrong. It's a frighteningly accurate portrayal of a society that had become so addicted to superficial entertainments that they considered people whose idea of a good time as a quiet night reading as being in immediate need of commitment to a mental institution, leaving the books behind as basically hazardous waste to be disposed of. The "censorship" side comes in because the mere idea of wanting to own or read a book indicated infection with this mental illness.

      In a way, it mirrors the short story "The Veldt", where people wrap themselves in video-walled cocoons with a good side order of Bradbury's favorite hobby-horse that sometimes it's better to be crazy and creative than sane and dull. His writings contain a real hatred of psychiatric pharmaceuticals. Which at the time were extremely crude, but even so...

    40. Re:His most famous work by Megane · · Score: 1

      The best part of that for me was that I laughed when Dangerfield opened the door. Then the rest of the audience laughed when they were told who that guy with the frizzy hair was.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    41. Re:His most famous work by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      It was about TV and the mental wasteland that he thought it represented.

      And using Cracked.com to cite a claim.

    42. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

    43. Re:His most famous work by Megane · · Score: 1

      Although I'm not quite sure how they were able to make ultrafast cars when nobody had two neurons to knock together anymore as TV rotted their brains.

      I'm sure all they had to do was drink more Brawndo.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    44. Re:His most famous work by SolitaryMan · · Score: 1

      The fact that the author himself says that the book is about subject X, does not mean that every reader cannot discover something for himself.

      Reading is a thought process. The good book is supposed to give you food for thoughts and new ideas. *Your* ideas. Not to merely serve as a transmission media from author's brain to yours.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    45. Re:His most famous work by hillbluffer · · Score: 1

      Why not hear what the author himself has to say about it? http://www.raybradbury.com/images/video/about_freeDOM.html

    46. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As has been pointed out above, burning particular books is censorship. Burning all books is not.

    47. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is. Indiscriminate censorship is still censorship.

    48. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you've made two negative comments about English teachers in this post alone. You must have had a crummy one, or you just have a grudge. Either way, get over it.

    49. Re:His most famous work by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, it's not like the author is given a main character and plot and then forced to somehow bring the two together. He invents the main character, and the plot. If he didn't want book burning to be the focus, maybe he shouldn't have made that the main character's job and then named the book after it.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    50. Re:His most famous work by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      I haven't read it, and so I'm not making an argument about the book itself, but once created, art has a life beyond its creator and its meaning is subjective. If one sees happiness in a Jackson Pollock, say, then the painting means happiness to them. If another person sees a mess, then to them it's a mess. The artist himself may have been expressing anger or remorse, but it's other people's interpretations that give it meaning. This is no less true for written works of art than other media. I may write a story about how I lost my dog and felt both remorse for not having better prevented this situation, and relief that I would no longer have to care for him. To me, it may have been a literal story. To someone else it could be a metaphor for losing a parent. None of this is to dismiss the importance of reading comprehension, but the idea that there is but one correct answer for the meaning of a work is simply a childish desire for order and absolute truth.

      That's not to say that people haven't just read the cliffnotes, but that the author of said summary's interpretation isn't inherently wrong just because it wasn't what Bradbury was thinking of when he wrote it.

    51. Re:His most famous work by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      Can't "anti-intellectualism" be considered a form of censorship? Or, at the very least, the concept of anti-intellectualism typically leads to censorship.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    52. Re:His most famous work by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      So clearly the takeaway is that Bradbury sucks at getting his point across.

      That's the thing about all art -- it's often difficult to be completely understood, and easy to be misunderstood. When I was writing the Paxil Diaries, people that were actually in the stories were fans of the stories, and didn't even realise that they were the ones in the stories!

      Charlie Manson thought the Beatles song "Helter Skelter" was a call to rise up and kill black people. Play it backwards and Lennon is singing "I like smack! Wooooo!" Actually, it's about a water slide.

      It's incredibly hard to get a point across using fiction.

    53. Re:His most famous work by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      Fahrenheit 451 wasn't about censorship. I know 100 people who know nothing else about the book except cliff notes or what they got off wikipedia are about to make that comment. So I'll save you the trouble. It was about TV and the mental wasteland that he thought it represented.

      Actually, Fahrenheit 451 was most certainly about censorship. Ray Bradbury may not have thought so, but that honestly doesn't matter. The article you're linking refers to a story where UCLA students were telling Bradbury he was wrong, and that the story was about censorship. This apparently angered him, but the students were right. They were right because the author's intentions aren't a valid or even interesting concern about a work of literature. What matters is what the readers get out of it. If they get something meaningful, but completely different than what the author intended, that's what the story was about to them.

      In the case of Fahrenheit 451, just about everyone gets the censorship message. It's really not relevant whether Bradbury intended to send that message or not.

    54. Re:His most famous work by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 2

      Why can't both be right?

      This is something that a lot of people can't seem to get their head around. Either they've had too many STEM classes in school that emphasize (rightly for their topic) the objective, or too many bad teachers that tell them some agreed upon meaning that you must regurgitate for a final essay question.

      The meaning of a work is what you take away from it. Not what other people take away from it. Not what the author put there to be taken away. Nobody can be wrong about the meaning of a work because it's a subjective thing. Putting down Dune with the impression that it's boring and pointless is just as valid as the person who says it's about manipulation of society through false religion.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    55. Re:His most famous work by Wulfrunner · · Score: 2

      My favourite quote from the book was,
      “Cram them full of non-combustible data, chock them so damned full of 'facts' they feel stuffed, but absolutely 'brilliant' with information. Then they’ll feel they’re thinking, they’ll get a sense of motion without moving. And they’ll be happy, because facts of that sort don’t change. Don’t give them any slippery stuff like philosophy or sociology to tie things up with. That way lies melancholy.”

      I feel like that was one of the main themes of the book, which I only read a couple of years ago.

      I grew up hearing about how Farenheit 451 was a dystopian authoritarian state-control type story. I was completely surprised by the prominent role of individual agency and the poetry of the prose. The value of the book is completely lost in the "Coles Notes Version" (or the summary your friend gave you) because a good portion of the work is conveyed through the deliberate use of specific language.

    56. Re:His most famous work by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, or perhaps he wrote the story that wished to be told.

      I don't know how Bradbury experienced his creativity, but many artists, myself included, experience creativity more as a Muse than an endeavor. It is not a matter of plan and intent, rather a Work offers itself up and you strive to bring it into being. Perhaps you can add a spot of polish as you give it form, perhaps not. But attempt to shape it to your intent and it dies, withering unripened on the vine.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    57. Re:His most famous work by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I'd side with the masses. It's not particularly important what the author intended. It only matters what people take away from it.

      If the intent of the author doesn't matter, what's the point of the author? Why not just skip the writing and the reading, make up your own message, and call it good?

      However, a contradiction between those two parties doesn't mean an author sucks at getting his/her point across. It just means when the work was released and took on a life of its own, the takeaway was different than what the author originally envisioned. There's nothing wrong with that.

      If the point of writing is to communicate, then it absolutely means the author sucked at getting his point across. If the writing is intended to be pure entertainment, then the content doesn't matter at all.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    58. Re:His most famous work by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I don't dispute he was a great writer, I just felt that he fear mongered a bit in his books and he was kind of a cranky old man who was deathly afraid of technology and change. Every tech innovation in his book meant somehow we were going to turn into ignorant primates who revel in our own stupidity.

      I think of how in Fahrenheit towards the end the young kids rev up the engine and try to run him over for sport. That sounds to me like a 'get off my lawn, you are driving too fast!!!' rant.

      I dunno its just like in his books he wrote about the future the warning omg if you use this tech you will be stupid and not know how to think for yourself!!! THE WORLD IS GOING TO SHIT!!!!

      I grew up in front of a computer and TV. I feel like it it made me jaded about marketing and advertising to the point I hate it through and through, and the computer opened me up to the world socially and got me out of the small town mentality I would have been stuck at had I not had friends of wildly different locations and backgrounds to play games with.

      Not only that but chatting with other people improved my ability to communicate with writing immeasurably. Think this post sucks now, imagine what I was writing 15 years ago *shudder*. Reaching out to the greater world puts more demands on the quality of your work, when the world can look at it, the world sure has a lot to say. It really avoids the whole big fish in a small pond problem you get in isolated communities.

      I guess I love technology and change, finding better and more interesting ways to do things. I feel like Mr. Bradbury was deathly afraid of those things and felt that any innovation we embraced would lead to apocalyptic stupidity.

    59. Re:His most famous work by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      This. It's not just television, but the general dumbing down of the populous. They provide simple escapism and take away that which makes people better. The stupid are easy to control, or are at least predictable.

      The idea is pretty nicely described in this comic.

      Now, read that comic and think about this a moment... Bradbury, Orwell, and Huxley have written thousands of words on the subject. Neil Postman has also ranted about the evil of television. Someone read all that and made a nice simple, easy-to-digest comic about it.
      If this is the first and last you'll hear about this, clearly, Huxley is winning.

    60. Re:His most famous work by Immerman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One of the things I like about books is that they are a collaboration. If you watch a movie or TV show then you get what you are given, room can sometimes be left for some personal interpretation, but generally by being intentionally vague and leaving holes in the mosaic.

      With a good book the author can lay down his vision, as rich and full as he can make it and ripe with intent both conscious and otherwise. But when you partake of his creation, the words act not as a finished product, but as a seed. They take root in your mind and grow, blossoming into a world that extends far beyond what was captured on the page, full of a detail and subtlety undreamt of in cinema, a living world which is not constrained by the covers that house it, but only slips out of focus where it extends beyond them. A deeply personal expanse born of both the author's mind and your own.

      I think that's one of the reasons that, for all their convenience, I'm not overfond of books-on-tape. Every pause, every inflection, every subtle choice of pronunciation inserts a tiny sliver of a third mind into the communion. Not enough to make a substantial contribution, but enough to twist and stunt the growth of the world.

      Perhaps too there is a power in the written word itself. The word is an abstraction of the concept, and the written word a further abstraction of that. Perhaps the very act of reading, of translating symbols into words, and words into concepts imparts a psychological momentum that launches them deep into your mind where they can find fertile ground and grow beyond concept into imagery and substance, acquiring depth and breadth until a scattering of concepts becomes a world.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    61. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should check out Roland Barthes essay "Death Of The Author". Might give you a new outlook on whether the author of a text matters.

    62. Re:His most famous work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In C.G. Jung's book "Modern Man In Search Of A Soul" he has a essay entitled "Psychology and Literature" where he suggests many times authors don't always understand everything they are writing. They are tapping into the culture and producing art out of the subtle and unspoken beliefs of the civilization that they might not even be aware of. Combine this with Barthes "Death Of The Author" and I think we can safely disregard authorial intent when analyzing art.

    63. Re:His most famous work by scrimmer · · Score: 1
      A few thoughts:

      In the Coda to the novel Bradbury says, “There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches.”

      Fahrenheit 451 is less about book censorship and more about the suppression and destruction of free thought. Fire in the novel symbolizes both its inevitable destruction and eventual rebirth, as it might exist in a world full of minority opinions at odds with those of a majority.

      Books, in the world of the novel, have become scapegoats of unhappiness for a majority of people; consequently these books must be annihilated to keep the people content, dare I say pacified--see the scene with Mildred and her friends when Montag reads Matthew Arnold's "Dover Beach" to them, for example.

      In addition, these books aid the populace to think on its own, making the totalitarian government’s power more difficult to maintain.

      Finally, Beatty tells Montag that the “real beauty” of fire is that “it destroys responsibility and consequences." Not only do books make the population uneasy, but also the “responsibility and consequences” of using the knowledge found in these volumes is too complex an onus for Montag's society to bear. The masses cannot think of solutions to its problems and instead throws accountability into their furnaces.

      So yes, on some superficial level, a novel about book burning does touch upon censorship. But what makes Bradbury's work so great is that there is so much more at work below the censorship surface.

    64. Re:His most famous work by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I never thought it was about censorship. It might be looked at censorship for political reasons, but I thought it was far more ominous. I have no idea about how TV and the "mental wasteland" Mr. Bradbury thought TV was got into the picture.

      To me, and this influenced me quite a bit as a child, was that a totalitarian government destroyed books to remove information from the people. It wasn't that the information was objectionable, it was the benefit to the person receiving the information that was objectionable. I found that particularly disturbing since my exposure to literature was so damn liberating and exciting. All those worlds, ideas, concepts denied to me because it might cause me to think for myself and question the world around me.

      To say it was censorship is deeply simplistic. Hopefully, I did get Mr. Bradbury's point, if that is what it was.

    65. Re:His most famous work by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

      Yeah, right, and that's why it ends with people going into the woods, each learning one book by heart, like fugitives waiting for the night to end. Because everybody except those guys just happened to turn anti-intellectual, for no reason or at least no reasons worth looking into. I also hear Nineteen-Eightyfour is about chocolate and how lack of it makes people antisocial.

    66. Re:His most famous work by Dusty101 · · Score: 1

      This. It's not just television, but the general dumbing down of the populous.

      Ouch. I think you mean "populace".

    67. Re:His most famous work by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      You and others can call it censorship but in my mind always, it was about the loss of knowledge and of the beauty and magic of literature. Burning books and the imprisonment of those who have archived them and memorised them was how he expressed this. More than a subtle difference.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    68. Re:His most famous work by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      The reason's people became anti-intellectual was the intellectually vacant entertainment and lifestyle that had become normal. It's like Idiocracy without the implied support for eugenics. I didn't say it was causeless, that was an invention of your fevered imagination.

    69. Re:His most famous work by jakoye · · Score: 0

      "Putting down Dune with the impression that it's boring and pointless is just as valid"

      I would like to censor this. ;)

      --
      Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven
    70. Re:His most famous work by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      Eeeeyup.
      Like I said, dumbing down.

  9. Something Wicked This Way Comes by chill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My wife never liked science fiction. One evening I chose "Something Wicked This Way Comes" to watch on DVD and she rolled her eyes at my choice.

    After watching, she said to me "now I know why you read all that stuff. That was great!"

    A true master of the art has passed.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Something Wicked This Way Comes by danbuter · · Score: 1

      It's his best book, IMO. I have read it multiple times.

    2. Re:Something Wicked This Way Comes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bummer, something wicked happened to copy at the Ann Arbor library.

    3. Re:Something Wicked This Way Comes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was fantasy, so your wife may still not like science fiction. Fantasy has always been more popular than S.F. with women.

  10. I saw play version of Fahrenheit 451 this year by peter303 · · Score: 1

    at the Denver Performing Arts Center. The plot elements have held up fairly well over the decades. It was written at the dawn of the television era when Bradbury witnessed TV taking over suburban lives. This fear has been re-echoed every generation since with PCs, the web, and mobile devices displacing family life and and books.

    1. Re:I saw play version of Fahrenheit 451 this year by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Interesting enough, the internet reversed the effect in its beginning. Instead of being a pure consumerist medium, it was the first time that the average person could actually interact with a wide variety of people all over the globe.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. RIP by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 0

    On a sad note, it is sad (redundancy win!) to see him pass on.

    On the bright side, maybe we'll finally have him stop changing what the meaning of Fahrenheit 451 is. Did he ever change his mind on the whole "Wait, it isn't about censorship at all. It really is about stupid kids watching TV all the time instead of reading. That is the important message." (not an actual quote).

    --
    by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
  12. Couldn't handle the stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No details on how he died were released, however, I suspect it may have had something to do with the Earth orbiting the sun over 90 times since he was born. I guess we'll have to wait to be sure."

    Are you saying that his death was caused by centrifugal force of the earch circling the sun? What a ghastly way to die.

    1. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. The cause of his death is likely correlated with the number of orbits around the sun, but unlikely to be caused by them.

    2. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that his death was caused by centrifugal force of the earch circling the sun? What a ghastly way to die.

      Of course not.

      It was the centripetal force that killed him.

    3. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty funny. Waiting for a pedant to show up and explain that you meant "centripetal".

    4. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      somebody did, 5 minutes before you posted.

    5. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's hilarious. Waiting for a meta-pedant to show up and point out the pedant beat you to it.

    6. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by Zerth · · Score: 1

      Is this going to get even more meta?

    7. Re:Couldn't handle the stress? by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

      That's numberwang!

  13. Farewell, good sir by BRSQUIRRL · · Score: 2

    While a little overlooked (and dated, to be fair) now, The Martian Chronicles were one of the first sci-fi works I read as a kid and were a big part of making me a fan of the genre. Like all of his works, they were simultaneously beautiful and sad.

    Farewell, good sir; you put humanity under the microscope with your writing and, whether we liked what we saw or not, we needed to see it.

    1. Re:Farewell, good sir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “The thing I dream is this: That some night, a hundred nights, a hundred years from now, there will be a boy on Mars reading late at night with a flashlight under the covers, and he’ll look out on the Martian landscape, which will be bleak and rocky and red and not very romantic. But when he turns out the light and lies with a copy of my book, I hope, The Martian Chronicles, the Martian winds outside will stir, and the ghosts that are in my book will rouse up, and my creatures—even though they never lived—will be on Mars. And that’s the dream I have.” - Ray Bradbury

  14. Ray by msheekhah · · Score: 1

    Having been an avid scifi fan since 5th grade, Ray Bradbury was up there with my favorites of Heinlein, Herbert, and Asimov. Everytime I hear "Major Tom", I think of a short story by Ray Bradbury.

    --
    Mark Anthony Collins
  15. I'd post anonymously, too... by El+Royo · · Score: 0

    If I had penned this gem: "Author of dystopian novel about the logical conclusion of many trends in modern society, Fahrenheit 451, and many other works that have inspired fans of speculative fiction for decades has died at the age of 91 in Los Angeles, California, Tuesday night, June 5th, 2012. " Could it have been made more torturous?

    --
    Author of Enyo: Up and Running from O'Reilly Media
    1. Re:I'd post anonymously, too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I had penned this gem: "Author of dystopian novel about the logical conclusion of many trends in modern society, Fahrenheit 451, and many other works that have inspired fans of speculative fiction for decades has died at the age of 91 in Los Angeles, California, Tuesday night, June 5th, 2012. "

      Could it have been made more torturous?

      "The author of several bleak, dismal stories grimly detailing the inevitable emptiness and downfall of all modern civilizations, as well as the utter futility of all you've ever loved and achieved, died today. Good riddance, the depressing bastard."

      Yeah, submitting that anonymously was probably the best idea the submitter had in a while.

  16. What really scares me. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What really bothers me about 451 is how just about everything but the book burning turned out true. If you remove that aspect from the book, you'd have a hard time separating it from the United States of today. I can't read it without being unnerved. Immersing ourselves in our electronic entertainment rather than our lives, advertisement everywhere, complete lack of empathy as a social standard, constant, ignored wars, distaste for pedestrians, rampant anti-intellectualism, near identical suburbs everywhere.

    It was a brilliant extrapolation from 1953, and I wish it wasn't so close to reality.

    1. Re:What really scares me. by Noryungi · · Score: 1

      All true.
      As far as the book burning is concerned, just wait a couple of generations and it will be there.

      --
      The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    2. Re:What really scares me. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      It doesn't NEED to be there. Books are just things, and their presence doesn't really deflect the problem unless the appreciation for careful, organized thought is also there.

      If people aren't interested in reading, the biggest library in the world is pointless.

    3. Re:What really scares me. by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      Isn't censorship pretty much the same thing as book burning. Google searches are now censored to some extent.

    4. Re:What really scares me. by idontgno · · Score: 2

      Actually, I think Bradbury underestimated the state of things.

      Books aren't even worth burning. Apparently, for a lot of people, they just don't really exist at all.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    5. Re:What really scares me. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The book burning is pointless. The anti-intellectualism is there. The apathy towards real knowledge with supporting context is gone. Censorship only matters to people who care about deep understanding of things. There aren't many of those.

    6. Re:What really scares me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not so sure. Yes, technology has increased the entertainment factor a lot, and just because it's interactive doesn't mean it's not mindless drivel (the book even hinted at the interactive parts with the "interactive television").

      On the other hand, the internet has opened up a lot of lines of communication that just weren't there before, thereby showing us the world from more than one perspective. When I was growing up, as far as I knew, the US could do no wrong and the only reason people could possibly oppose us would be because they're jealous of our freedom. All of the information was "authoritarian," e.g. it's true because it's in the encyclopedia, or because it was on the news, or because my teacher told me so. Now I read news from all over the world, and I can't just fall back on blind patriotism. I have to think for myself. I have to judge people's claims on their merits and decide what I want to believe. And with sites like Wikipedia, even the traditionally "authoritarian" sources like encyclopedias need to be evaluated with a critical eye. There's no excuse for an uninformed opinion anymore.

      So I would say that the internet has merged the two opposing concepts in Fahrenheit 451. TV was centrally controlled and designed for entertainment to keep people from thinking. Books were decentralized and filled with uncomfortable ideas that required thought. The internet can take on either role depending on how you choose to use it.

    7. Re:What really scares me. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Godwin in 3, 2, 1...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:What really scares me. by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      I don't think we have to wait that long. Book burnings are happening both literately and figuratively.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    9. Re:What really scares me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember that silly karaoke-style video system that let you act out scenes from movies? Fahrenheit 451 was the first thing I thought of when I saw that (after "that looks stupid" of course).

    10. Re:What really scares me. by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      Someone asked me is the problem ignorance or apathy. I don't know and don't care. Censorship is stupid anyhow. OK look up how to make a bomb with Google. Now they aren't going to make this easy for you but to anyone that really wants to put the information to an improper use, they can find this stuff easily. Once the fire is lit, it's going to burn, and there is no putting the information back. Not completely. Now think about how hard it would be to make a nuke? All you have to have is enough nuclear material. It seems any country that doesn't have one could get one pretty simple. So it's not like the bad guys don't already know more about things like that anyhow.

    11. Re:What really scares me. by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      Sometimes, I wonder what Bradbury thought of the modern e-book reader as exemplified by the Amazon Kindle series of e-book readers.

      It's been said that many older people are now reading books again, thanks to the Kindle's ability to increase text size to accommodate older readers with vision problems. I like the Kindle for another reason: no more holding or propping up a heavy hardback book, one that often weighs several times more than the current Kindle models (let alone the iPad 2!).

    12. Re:What really scares me. by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't think Bradbury was a luddite who liked old entertainment and hated new, if that's what you mean. I can't imagine the format of the book mattering that much.

  17. Collected Short Stories by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And "R is for Rocket" I read 40-some years ago. They were collections of Bradbury short stories.

    Indeed, I too cut my teeth on Ray Bradbury's works for fantasy and science fiction. Recently I discovered an edition of 100 of his collected short stories (chosen by the man himself) that appeared to include most if not all of my favorites. For anyone looking to discover/rediscover, this is an inexpensive and fairly comprehensive route to take. These stories are written for a younger mind but are still enjoyable to me.

    It might have been because I had not dealt with death on a profound level yet but his short story "Kaleidoscope" from The Illustrated Man was permanently etched upon my mind. Now Bradbury is a shooting star providing wishes and dreams to the young minds who read his works. Personally I feel that hundreds of years from now, Bradbury will join the ranks of Hans Christian Anderson, Road Dahl, etc and his works will be seen as mandatory classics for readers. Like all modern writing, some of these stories aren't the most original in their nature but they are perfect to capture a mind and set someone on a course for endless reading. It's a sad day to see such a wonderful mind pass but I will do my part to immortalize him through recommendations.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Collected Short Stories by Pope · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I too cut my teeth on Ray Bradbury's works for fantasy and science fiction. Recently I discovered an edition of 100 of his collected short stories (chosen by the man himself) that appeared to include most if not all of my favorites. For anyone looking to discover/rediscover, this is an inexpensive and fairly comprehensive route to take. These stories are written for a younger mind but are still enjoyable to me.

      I picked up a large collection of his a few months ago, that may even be the same one. Think I'll crack it open tonight since I've recently finished my current book.

      He was a true master, I remember being blown away by "The Martian Chronicles" as a young teen. Even the TV show, "The Ray Bradbury Theater", had its moments.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    2. Re:Collected Short Stories by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 1

      This is the much better Bradbury collection. I have both, and the one you linked to omits some classics, in favor of his more recent work.

      Also, I was just researching Ray the other day, spurred by thoughts of his story of being compelled to "LIVE FOREVER!" at a carnival... I found this picture, which makes me laugh a little. You can almost see the thought balloons:

      Ray: "Why yes, it IS an honor to have your picture taken with me.
      Laura: "I thought this award was for CHRISTIAN authors..."
      George: "First man on Mars, hell of a guy!"

  18. private flights to space starting to come true? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    One of the more vivid images in ray's stories were the hordes of rockets fleeing Earth for new opportunities on Mars. I thought this was transposition of the settling of US West and displacement of Indians which would have still been in the living memory of Ray's grandparents when he was a child. The success of DragonX last week is private door opening into space after half century of government monopolies.

  19. lets sort out the conspiracy theories by RobertLTux · · Score: 0

    Okay lets see

    The Shadow Government folks line up here

    The Aliens Did it folks line up here

    The He isn't actually Dead folks line up here

    who else do we have??

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    1. Re:lets sort out the conspiracy theories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously God killed him. Or terrorists.

    2. Re:lets sort out the conspiracy theories by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      What if you think that the Shadow Government of Aliens is spreading the news that he's dead when he's really alive somewhere? Where do you line up then? I'm asking for, um, a friend of mine.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:lets sort out the conspiracy theories by nschubach · · Score: 1

      I suspect it may have had something to do with the Earth orbiting the sun over 90 times since he was born

      If we stop the Earth from orbiting the Sun, we can prevent countless deaths.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    4. Re:lets sort out the conspiracy theories by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You'll notice that terrorists are often claiming they get their orders from some kind of god, so why the tautology?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:lets sort out the conspiracy theories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The downside, of course is that would wipe most life on earth immediately and the rest in a few days.

    6. Re:lets sort out the conspiracy theories by nschubach · · Score: 1

      That's what they want you to think!

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  20. Veeeeenusssss! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2

    It was the transit of Venus! It was jealous that Ray gave Mars all his love, and pulled some sneaky, underhanded gravitational alignment whatsis! Damn you, Venus! Damn yoooooou!

  21. Dinosaurs pass on by dorpus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm from the generation that had schoolteachers who couldn't stop talking about how great the 60s were. So, Bradbury epitomized the 60s SF writers who thought that computer technology would "oppress" us, and women in the future were supposed to behave just as submissively as 1950s women. Thanks to that strain of thought, my generation was discouraged from pursuing computer careers.

    1. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sooo... Ray Bradbury oppressed you? By all means, bring suit against his estate.

    2. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      I'm from the generation that had schoolteachers who couldn't stop talking about how great the 60s were. So, Bradbury epitomized the 60s SF writers who thought that computer technology would "oppress" us, and women in the future were supposed to behave just as submissively as 1950s women.

      "The 60s" your teachers were extolling wasn't the same as "the 60s" during which Bradbury was writing -- chronologically the same, but culturally worlds apart. Bradbury epitomized the generation against which people who were in their 20s in the 1960s were rebelling. He was born in 1920. He was 45 when the first big Vietnam protests started, 47 during the "Summer of Love," 49 at the time of Woodstock: more than old enough to be "The Man." A great writer to be sure, but also very much a product of his time.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    3. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by dorpus · · Score: 1

      It was more systematic than that. The 80s/early 90s generation had a lack of training opportunities in computer skills. When the courses were offered, they were often in the form of "vocational" courses that respectable college-bound students should not take. Employers looked down on computer skills, so people were advised not to list them on resumes. Career counselors described computer careers in terms of autistic people who are incapable of relating to other human beings. That's in addition to the social stigma where mentioning computer skills often made one equated with being mentally diseased or a pedophile.

      Thankfully, we do not see such attitudes anymore as the 60s generation has faded into irrelevance.

    4. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It was more systematic than that. The 80s/early 90s generation had a lack of training opportunities in computer skills. When the courses were offered, they were often in the form of "vocational" courses that respectable college-bound students should not take. Employers looked down on computer skills, so people were advised not to list them on resumes. Career counselors described computer careers in terms of autistic people who are incapable of relating to other human beings. That's in addition to the social stigma where mentioning computer skills often made one equated with being mentally diseased or a pedophile.

      Thankfully, we do not see such attitudes anymore as the 60s generation has faded into irrelevance.

      I don't know where you went to school, but that was quite the opposite experience I had in school in upstate New York in the same time period - computer programming courses were offered to those whole excelled in science and math, and as part of "gifted and talented" programs. And "mentioning computer skills often made one equated with being mentally diseased or a pedophile"? Seriously? Hyperbole much, or were you in some weird parallel dimension?

    5. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get over it, the 60's weren't all that dude.

    6. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by jgrahn · · Score: 1

      "The 60s" your teachers were extolling wasn't the same as "the 60s" during which Bradbury was writing -- chronologically the same, but culturally worlds apart. Bradbury epitomized the generation against which people who were in their 20s in the 1960s were rebelling. He was born in 1920. He was 45 when the first big Vietnam protests started, 47 during the "Summer of Love," 49 at the time of Woodstock: more than old enough to be "The Man." A great writer to be sure, but also very much a product of his time.

      The phrase "a product of his time" doesn't literally mean "he was born on the year he was born"; it means he also shared the generally accepted values of his time. Did he really? I don't know much about him, but you provide no good arguments. You cannot "epitomize" a generation just by being literally part of it.

    7. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      The phrase "a product of his time" doesn't literally mean "he was born on the year he was born"; it means he also shared the generally accepted values of his time. Did he really? I don't know much about him, but you provide no good arguments. You cannot "epitomize" a generation just by being literally part of it.

      Fair enough. Let's say that the social attitudes in his stories seem typical for members of his generation, and that it was precisely those attitudes against which the rebellion of the 60s took place.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    8. Re:Dinosaurs pass on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bradbury epitomized the 60s SF writers who thought that computer technology would "oppress" us, and women in the future were supposed to behave just as submissively as 1950s women.

      In Fahrenheit 451, Clarisse represented the energy, individuality and potential of young people. Oh and she also happened to be a woman. On the other hand, Mildred and her neighbors, Mrs. Phelps and Mrs. Bowles represented the ignorance and complacency that age and experience without reflection brings. Clarisse was far more worldly and knowledgeable than Mildred and her friends because Clarisse *cared* about life. She wasn't distracted and consumed by shiny computer technology or risk taking like today's young people.

      Thanks to that strain of thought, my generation was discouraged from pursuing computer careers.

      That oppression of women in the computer industry is a tired stereotype. Why haven't women supported and encouraged other women to pursue computer careers? If there is a reticence from men towards women pursuing computer careers it's because of the expectations of their performance not their sex. True nerds want to see the job done, they don't get hung up on the difference in your chromosomes.

  22. as bricks and mortar burn by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What really bothers me about 451 is how just about everything but the book burning turned out true.

    WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S CALLED A KINDLE MOTHERFUCKER?!!![*]

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  23. A Great Writer and Person by invid · · Score: 1

    Ray Bradbury is one of the reasons I look back fondly on my childhood.

    --
    The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
  24. The New Yorker by milkmage · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ran their first sci-fi issue this month.

    Here's his piece "Inspiration for the Fire Balloons"
    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/04/120604fa_fact_bradbury

    While I remained earthbound, I would time-travel, listening to the grownups, who on warm nights gathered outside on the lawns and porches to talk and reminisce. At the end of the Fourth of July, after the uncles had their cigars and philosophical discussions, and the aunts, nephews, and cousins had their ice-cream cones or lemonade, and we’d exhausted all the fireworks, it was the special time, the sad time, the time of beauty. It was the time of the fire balloons.

  25. He confused the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It wouldn't have been a problem if he didn't have the totalitarian state and their Firemen enforcers.

    If he changed the plot so that people were just too lazy or stupid or to read becuase of TV, then his point would gotten across.

    Doesn't really matter though. That what's makes his work great literature - it can be interpreted differently equaly well.

    1. Re:He confused the issue by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      The book affected me deeply. The symbolic destruction of knowledge VIA burning its vessel is still something I consider to be sacrilege in my system of beliefs.

  26. Which book would you memorize before it's torched? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    New question I'm asking everyone: What's the book that, like a character at the end of Fahrenheit 451, you'd recite from memory?

    Mine's "1984".

  27. Next steps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One assumes that he has asked to be cremated?

  28. Mr. Bradbury, may you have peace... by wannabegeek2 · · Score: 2

    I owe Mr. Bradbury and his golden age of science fiction brethern a great deal. It was his writing and that of Wells, Verne, Assimov and others which pulled me up from a path of near illiteracy to being an avid reader.

    If there is an after life, I hope Bradbury, Verne, Clark and all the others have already started writing for the inhabitants. They'll be better off for it.

    --
    Never ascribe to malice or conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
  29. Prescient by cthlptlk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just looked at a few wikipedia pages and saw this thing that he wrote about a transistor radio in the 1950s. It is exactly the way you might describe someone talking on a cell phone if you walked outside your door right now:

    In writing the short novel Fahrenheit 451 I thought I was describing a world that might evolve in four or five decades. But only a few weeks ago, in Beverly Hills one night, a husband and wife passed me, walking their dog. I stood staring after them, absolutely stunned. The woman held in one hand a small cigarette-package-sized radio, its antenna quivering. From this sprang tiny copper wires which ended in a dainty cone plugged into her right ear. There she was, oblivious to man and dog, listening to far winds and whispers and soap-opera cries, sleep-walking, helped up and down curbs by a husband who might just as well not have been there. This was not fiction.

    No, he didn't predict cell phones or anything like that, but he recognized one of the first victims of the epidemic that went on to swallow us all.

    1. Re:Prescient by wcrowe · · Score: 1

      I think this is why he was such a great writer. He had a real sense of the human element of technology -- how we use it; how we interact with it; how it affects us, both individually and as a species.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    2. Re:Prescient by invid · · Score: 1

      He did predict the cell phone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderer

      --
      The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
    3. Re:Prescient by KlomDark · · Score: 2

      I'm reading this on my phone at lunch so getting a kick of of this...

      Posted from my Cricket Memo

  30. so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so what? another carbon-based unit is returned to the environment

    1. Re:so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quit trolling, V'ger.

  31. Rest in Peace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rest in peace Mr. Bradbury. Your work introduced me to the wonders of literary scifi, and the world has never been the same since.

  32. Oblig. Simpsons quote by uncle+slacky · · Score: 2

    "I'm aware of his work."

    --
    Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
  33. Speculation at its best by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

    No details on how he died were released, but I suspect it may have had something to do with the Earth orbiting the sun over 90 times since he was born.

    For that matter, he could have been the one letting the earth orbit the sun all this time. I guess we will be waiting with bated breath to know if it is possible for the earth to orbit the sun without him.

  34. Re:He was a right wing nut job, Burn him like F451 by beschra · · Score: 1

    Sorry for feeding the troll, but this is from late in Bradbury's life (age 90).

    "I'm a Zen Buddhist if I would describe myself," he says. "I don't think about what I do. I do it. That's Buddhism. I jump off the cliff and build my wings on the way down."

    Full article, worth the read:
    http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-02/living/Bradbury_1_ray-bradbury-dandelion-wine-sam-weller?_s=PM:LIVING

    --
    It is unwise to ascribe motive
  35. Re:Which book would you memorize before it's torch by Sique · · Score: 1

    Mine are Solaris and The Flop, both by Stanislaw Lem.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  36. Re:He was a right wing nut job, Burn him like F451 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Y'see, this is why celebrity is a terrible idea.

    Because Bradbury was a genius, a master of empathy, and one of the most far-seeing writers of his century. I can't think of a more evocative piece of writing than "Dandelion Wine".

    That said, you're right (if a trifle impolitic). He was a total neo-con.

    I really do try to avoid personal knowledge about artists whose work I enjoy. It seldom works out well.

  37. Re:Which book would you memorize before it's torch by dr_dank · · Score: 2

    Given the limits and frailties of the human memory, he could have written a follow-up about the mangled misremembered books:

    A Tale of Two Cities - Christopher Dickins look at Minneapolis and st Paul.

    Moby Dick - Herman Mullers classic tale of Captain Arabs search for the perfect tuna salad sandwich.

    Macbeth - The story of the first girl to own an Apple Macintosh.

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  38. I saw him speak in California in May, 1982 by talexb · · Score: 2

    I happened to be touring a university campus (UCLA? Berkeley?) and saw a poster for a talk he was giving, and bought a ticket on a whim. He was a fascinating speaker, and it was intriguing to hear him re-engineer and expand on Fahrenheit 451. What a treat. Afterwards, he gladly stayed behind and autographed books for quite a while.

    I also remember something about him being arrested in Paris, France for being 'drunk and in charge of a bicycle'. What's not to like?

    RIP.

  39. The Ray Bradbury Theater by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    Use to love watching it. thishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ray_Bradbury_Theater

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  40. The Veldt by wikthemighty · · Score: 1

    Martian Chronicles was an early favorite, but the one that stuck with me as a young kid was The Veldt, which I was lucky enough to have read and seen on film in school.

    --
    "There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
  41. Not everybody wasa fan... by VAXcat · · Score: 1

    Ray Bradbury wrote touchy feelie, technologically very light science fiction. As a fan of the hard stuff (Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Arthur C. Clarke et. al. - I prefer SF that requires a working knowledge of vector calculus and differential equations to really appreciate) his stuff always seemd pretty fluffy fare. I always summed it up as the science fiction beloved by English teachers everywhere, becuase if you took an English course in the 60s and 70s, and any SF was going to wind up on the reading list, it was inevitable that it would be Bradbury...

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    1. Re:Not everybody wasa fan... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      As a fan of the hard stuff (Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Arthur C. Clarke et. al. - I prefer SF that requires a working knowledge of vector calculus and differential equations to really appreciate) his stuff always seemd pretty fluffy fare. I always summed it up as the science fiction beloved by English teachers everywhere

      Heh, you've got a point, and I too got tired of seeing him presented as pretty much the only science fiction author admitted into the literary canon. But SF from the 1970s on, which at its best combines "the hard stuff" with a humanistic approach to characterization, owes Bradbury equally along with Clarke et al. I've never understood the idea that scientific rigor should require the characters to be one-dimensional; both are important to telling a good story to which both the words "science" and "fiction" apply. (To be fair, Clarke did pretty well with this sometimes; I defy anyone to read The City and the Stars or The Fountains of Paradise and say he couldn't create interesting, complex characters! But he wasn't particularly consistent about it, and Heinlein and Anderson were even less so.)

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:Not everybody wasa fan... by jgrahn · · Score: 1
      Me neither, but I never read much of what he wrote.

      Ray Bradbury wrote touchy feelie, technologically very light science fiction. As a fan of the hard stuff (Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Arthur C. Clarke et. al. - I prefer SF that requires a working knowledge of vector calculus and differential equations to really appreciate) his stuff always seemd pretty fluffy fare.

      Oh, come on! The difference between hard and soft SF is mostly about fluff. Anyone can write a normal story and add a page of technical mumbo-jumbo to make it seem more scientific. As far as I can tell, that was what Heinlein did too.

      I always summed it up as the science fiction beloved by English teachers everywhere, becuase if you took an English course in the 60s and 70s, and any SF was going to wind up on the reading list, it was inevitable that it would be Bradbury...

      That certainly makes it less attractive, but unless you believe Englich teachers are always wrong, it doesn't really say anything about the value of Bradbury's writings.

    3. Re:Not everybody wasa fan... by VAXcat · · Score: 1

      The "difference between hard and soft science fiction is mostly fluff" - if you don't know anything about science and engineering. Heinlein was famous for being a stickler about technical issues in his work - for example, the middin' long discussion of the physics of space flight in Have Space Suit Will Travel, or the star fields in one of his movies. Poul Anderson managed to integrate facts about the chemistry of magnesium and radioactive transmutation of elements...into a FANTASY novel, no less. Hal Clement's stories taught me more Physical Chemistry than my teachers did. "Technical mumbo-jumbo", this ain't - it's the real deal, the clear quill. As to whether I believe English teachers are always wrong - not at all - but I can absolutely guarantee that they are far from authorities on what makes good science fiction....

      --
      There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    4. Re:Not everybody wasa fan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And....? I wouldn't disagree if you wanted to argue that his writing wasn't really science fiction, but insinuating his work is somehow beneath that of the authors you named due to the lack of science is just silly. Their scientific prowess was certainly greater, but Bradbury's writing ability left them all in the dust.

      Also "technologically light" /= "fluffy". By that logic Dostoevsky is fluffy.

  42. The Laurel and Hardy Love Affair by tekrat · · Score: 1

    Is probably his greatest short story and it's not even Sci-Fi. Thankfully, it is all over the internet, so, if you've never read it, drop everything and go read it right now. It's great.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  43. He gave the eulogy at a friend's funeral by Grayhand · · Score: 1

    I'll never forget him telling the story of how this guy he had never met gave him a start in a little known side career, designing amusement park rides. My friend had been impressed with a story he had written and suggest Ray for scripting the story for the ride back in the early 60s. It was several years after that they finally met and became friends. His kind words meant a lot to all that attended the wake. He was a gentleman and one of the truest artists ever in fantasy and science fiction. He may have passed but his work will be read a thousand years from now if for no other reason than his brilliant insights into humanity during this time in history. History books can give dry facts but Ray had a genius for telling what it was like to be a live during the 20th century. That aspect of his work was just as important as his unique tales of the fantastic. It was the humanity in the stories that made them excel beyond his contemporaries and become truly timeless.

  44. Bradbury opened doors for me by fotoflojoe · · Score: 1

    In eighth grade, I was assigned "The Halloween Tree". This was my first exposure to the concept that reading could actually be an enjoyable experience, rather than simply being a tedious chore standing in the way of going out to ride bikes. Thank you for that wonderful gift Mr. Bradbury.

  45. Your sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings will receive a US$50.00 payment

    FTFY

  46. Mars, Mars, Mars by Phoenix666 · · Score: 1

    And to Ray Bradbury I credit my lifelong fascination with the Red Planet. Edgar Rice Burroughs helped, sure, and Kim Stanley Robinson, and others too, but the saga of human colonization and pathos of the dying Martian civilization with their crystal cities and sandships, well, it leads me to hope that someday we'll settle there.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  47. Don Quijote de la Mancha. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    And yeah, my memory is that good.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  48. The sad thing is that as such as Bradbury die... by ibsteve2u · · Score: 1

    ...the old America - that America of optimism, high expectations, and truth before all - is dying with them.

    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
  49. He changed the world by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    There isnt a better way than going hunting to the past and killing a butterfly.

  50. Like an old friend by rbowen · · Score: 2

    I feel like an old friend has died, and I've been near tears several times today. I grew up on his stories. I deeply identified with his characters - especially Douglas Spaulding. I read Dandelion Wine almost every year, and it's always new.

    He influenced my writing style more than anyone else, as well as his encouragement to write something every day, whether I want to or not.

    His stories were always about more than just the setting - science fiction was simply a vehicle for him to communicate deep truths.

    I've been remembering all day a scene in Dandelion Wine in which Great Grandmother says goodbye to her family, and then settles into bed to try to find the dream that was interrupted when she was born. I hope you find your dream, Ray. Sleep well, old friend.

    --
    Apache guy, Open Source enthusiast, runner
  51. Re:He was a right wing nut job, Burn him like F451 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No doubt he was supposedly "against book burning" because otherwise his books would have been burned several minutes after his drivel was published.

    Newsflash: The quality of an artist's work is not tied to how closely their political positions match yours. Whatever else he was, Bradbury was an excellent writer.

  52. A prophet of science by Nov8tr · · Score: 0

    Another icon of science fiction and a prophet of science is gone. I began reading his work as just a boy and spent my entire life enjoying all his brilliant works of art. It is so sad to lose those that make us stop and think. Those who make us wonder. Those who gave us the idea's that we are turning into reality now. I will miss him sorely as I miss the others who have gone before him. He has gone into that long night. Sleep well my friend, you deserve it.

    --
    I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.
  53. It was a pleasure to burn. by dzfoo · · Score: 1

    Rest in peace, Mr. Bradbury.

            -dZ.

    --
    Carol vs. Ghost
    ...Can you save Christmas?
  54. Re:Which book would you memorize before it's torch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Easy: Garfield Pulls His Weight

  55. Re:Which book would you memorize before it's torch by KlomDark · · Score: 2

    The Ringworld Engineers - Larry Niven

  56. Re:Which book would you memorize before it's torch by KlomDark · · Score: 1

    Oops, forgot a quote: "Nobody laughs in church, not even tourists." :)

  57. Farenheit 451 by scharkalvin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ray Bradberry wanted the title of this work to be the temperature that book paper catches fire. He searchd through the public libraries research section but couldn't find the answer to that question. He tried contacting several paper companies but they didn't have the answer. He finally called the local fire department and asked them what temperature paper catches fire at.... THEY KNEW!

  58. huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I guess we'll have to wait to be sure." Sure that he died?

  59. e-books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bradbury hated e-books:

    But he relented in 2011, when his publishing deal was renewed. His agent said: "We explained the situation to him, that a new contract wouldn't be possible without e-book rights. He understood and gave us the right to go ahead."

    Very nice. Shove it down his throat. Were I he, I'd have taken the book out of circulation and let the publisher suck wind.. At 90, he certainly didn't need the income much longer.

  60. RIP Ray Bradbury by Pepebuho · · Score: 1

    Your novels brought me uncountable hours of entertainment, joy, sadness, thrill, and always a sense of wonder and magic.

  61. Re:Copyright by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Okay, here's a new wrinkle on Copyright.

    A *huge* problem is that it's one rule to fit them all and becomes that becomes a Procrustean Bed. (NEAR ELEUSIS, in Attica, there lurked a bandit named Damastes, called Procrustes, or "The Stretcher." He had an iron bed on which travelers who fell into his hands were compelled to spend the night. His humor was to stretch the ones who were too short until they died, or, if they were too tall, to cut off as much of their limbs as would make them short enough. None could resist him, and the surrounding countryside became a desert. http://www.goines.net/Writing/procrustean_bed.html )

    So even a silly ICanHazCheezburger Caturday pic has the same legal context as enterprise software and a $300 million movie.

    What if copyright were proportional (your choice of equations, maybe Fibonacci?) to the amount of dollars times man-hours put into it? So a fun little graphic might get say 12 years of protection, but a $300 Million movie that took 17 years *just to get out of the studio* maybe enjoys the bigger terms. Then the catch is you can pay money to extend your copyright. So Disney gets to keep their Mouse, but nearly forgotten Christopher Anvil stories from 1956 would be in public domain by now.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  62. Bradbury book signing by mannd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    RIP Ray Bradbury. In 1999 I waited for about 4 hours in a line that wound around the downtown Denver Barnes and Noble to meet him and have him autograph a book. At the beginning of the event the book store manager announced that he would only stay for 2 hours to autograph books. The 2 hours came and went and the line was still very long. He then announced that he would stay until every last person had his or her book signed. He stayed until long after the usual store closing and signed every book. One of America's greatest authors and a true gentleman.

    --
    Sig expected Real Soon Now.
  63. All Summer in a Day and The Lake by An+dochasac · · Score: 2

    Ray Bradbury wrote "All summer in a day", the story of prejudice on Venus where an earthling's Venus-born schoolmates no longer believe in the sun. In a reflection of the rare beauty of a total solar eclipse, or the rarer phenomena of a Venus the sun only appears once every 7 years on Bradbury's Venus. Mr. Bradbury might have appreciated that his last day on earth coincided with a rare alignment between Earth, the Sun and Venus where...

    No one in the class could remember a time when there wasn't rain.
    “Ready?"
    "Ready."
    "Now?"
    "Soon."
    "Do the scientists really know? Will it happen today, will it?"
    "Look, look; see for yourself!"
    The children pressed to each other like so many roses, so many weeds, intermixed, peering out for a look at the hidden sun.
    It rained.
    It had been raining for seven years; thousand upon thousands of days compounded and filled from one end to the other with rain, with the drum and gush of water, with the sweet crystal fall of showers and the concussion of storms so heavy they were tidal waves come over the islands. A thousand forests had been crushed under the rain and grown up a thousand times to be crushed again. And this was the way life was forever on the planet Venus, and this was the schoolroom of the children of the rocket men and women who had come to a raining world to set up civilization and live out their lives.
    "It's stopping, it's stopping!"
    "Yes, yes!"

    Fellow midwesterner Mark Twain famously wrote: "I came in with Halley's comet in 1835. It is coming again next year, and I expect to go out with it. It will be the greatest disappointment of my life if I don't go out with Halley's comet. The Almighty has said, no doubt: 'Now here are these two unaccountable freaks; they came in together, they must go out together.'"

    Bradbury wasn't as sardonic as Twain. He preferred walking to driving, but this preference raised suspicions of cops in Waukegan Illinois. He turned his confrontations into Fahrenheit 451. As one of the most prolific writers in the world, he should be remembered for his love of language and life. Ray has inspired millions of writers and scientists with his prolific writing and love for language and life. And if you can read one of his first short stories, "The Lake" without shedding a tear over how short our time is on this planet... I don't know.

    "In my later years I have looked in the mirror each day and found a happy person staring back. Occasionally I wonder why I can be so happy. The answer is that every day of my life I've worked only for myself and for the joy that comes from writing and creating." -- Ray Bradbury (1920-2012 R.I.P.)

  64. Re: Fiction by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Hi there. I'll reply to you because your point touches some of the profound differences between fiction and non-fiction.

    On the bad and/or dull side of Non-Fiction, are works that simply "do nothing for you". CIA Factbooks come to mind. Neat for 12 seconds to make sure you're not mistaking Zimbabwe for Zambia, but then the rest of the 700 pages does nothing for you.

    So yes, there unstated elements of non-fiction required to make it interesting, such as being in the fields you like.

    Same kind of thing with fiction. At its best, fiction takes normal life, smooths out the stupid flukes and errors to sculpt a fairly theoretical message from the author. I tend to like science fiction in this regard because it can make up entire future timelines to make its point. So again, done right, there is a message, a mood, behind the words. At that point, you can work backward. "What mood would I like to read about now?" Then with a little skill and practice, you pick an author most likely to hit your mood, then read *vertically* along that author's story set. For example, I like O. Henry because he describes a simpler time in New York and all the hardships of an immigrant melting pot, but manages to not insult the characters. Or my newest find, Christopher Anvil, who was between 20-40 years ahead of his time, writing stories that are just finally showing up in news stories today.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  65. Still have my 1969 Fahrenheit 451 printing by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1
    I did a book report on Fahrenheit 451 in 9th grade. I still have my copy from then. It's a bit yellow now. But, the insights I got guide me to this day.

    Quoting the first line of the book [with some poetic license]:
    IT WAS A PLEASURE TO RETAIN.

    --
    Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
  66. Re: Fiction by Hatta · · Score: 1

    On the bad and/or dull side of Non-Fiction, are works that simply "do nothing for you". CIA Factbooks come to mind. Neat for 12 seconds to make sure you're not mistaking Zimbabwe for Zambia, but then the rest of the 700 pages does nothing for you.

    I dunno, simply learning new things is pretty interesting. I'd rather have the CIA factbook with me on a desert island than any work of fiction. When you think about it, "The population of Zambia is 12,000,000" isn't really any less interesting than "a fictional beggar said 'There's only a few of us left.'"

    Same kind of thing with fiction. At its best, fiction takes normal life, smooths out the stupid flukes and errors to sculpt a fairly theoretical message from the author.

    Couldn't the point have been better made with a well crafted essay? e.g. I always found George Orwell's essays far more interesting than his allegorical fiction. After all, he actually shot that elephant, despite his best efforts not to. The pressure of the "coolies" who he was supposed to be superior to was too much. That's a pretty profound thing to think about. Animal Farm on the other hand, never happened, and it's unclear what relevance it actually has to anything. The dynamics between the animals in Animal Farm could be completely a figment of Orwell's imagination. If such a thing could happen, who's to say it would go down the way Orwell portrayed?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  67. Why will we all die of old at 90+? by Catbeller · · Score: 1

    Our gerontologists and general culture freak out at the concept of curtailing or repairing the genetically caused damage that we call the aging process. Career suicide to say that something could possibly be done, someday, if we start trying to find out how.

    If dying of old age is natural and expected, then so should dying of cancer be. Neither are pleasant deaths, and should be eliminated as causes. But one is being done, and the other not, for largely religious and superstitious reasons. Odd that our greatest fear is our greatest blind spot in medical research.

    If we ever lick even a part of the puzzle, it'll be by accident. Let's hope.

    Ray Bradbury. One of the damned greats. Almost the last of the Campbellian era of science fiction, when we actually called it by its right name.

  68. Thanks! by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    n/t :)

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  69. Re: Fiction by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    Its called stimulating your imagination. In your case you appear not to have one. I pity you.

  70. Emotional Garbage by ChrisMaple · · Score: 0

    Bradbury never let facts or science get in his way. Whether it was his annoying religious beliefs or the embarrassing gush of "Golden Apples of the Sun", he and reason were strangers.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  71. Coincidence by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    Just showed the "Fuck Me Ray Bradbury" video to my girlfriend this morning. What an eerie coincidence...

    --
    -
  72. Playboy by GrahamCox · · Score: 2

    Ray Bradbury couldn't find a major publisher willing to take on "Fahrenheit 451". It was first published in serial form in Playboy in 1954. It was only afterwards that it became a noted novel.

    People don't give Playboy any credit, but they were actually often quite edgy and on the forefront of a lot of new fiction and ideas throughout the 50, 60 and earlier 70s.

  73. Re:Copyright by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    Why should how much time or money I spend on the creation of something, have to do with how long the copyright lasts? An author who spends 50 years writing a novel should enjoy a longer copyright than an author who churns out a better book every few years can only have a shorter length? Seems like that will encourage creators to horde their creations.
    To fix copyright, shorten the term. 25 or 50 years. Allow people like Disney to trademark their characters (on an annual basis for a fee). Sorry you can't use Mickey Mouse, but you can make copies of steamboat willy.

  74. Re:Which book would you memorize before it's torch by milkmage · · Score: 1
  75. Re:Copyright by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    "Why should how much time or money I spend on the creation of something, have to do with how long the copyright lasts? "

    Because it's a rough indicator of economic cost. 25 years even is too long for funny little graphics, small software apps, and possibly even songs. Cultural propagation is the overlooked benefit from something not under copyright in the internet age. We all look and snicker and "share" (read: copy) stuff on the social sites - for these small categories we're effectively treating these small items as 0 copyright already. That is the nature of my concept. On the other hand, when you see stories like "X programmer copied stock trading software" we go "oh, okay, now that's a Bad Thing", simply because it's a high end item.

    It's a devastating problem in non-fiction books. It's well known that there is a curve where nonfiction has very low sales below certain "best sellers". Yet the value of the knowledge in a non-fiction book might be the highest value in any non-software copyrighted entity. (Facetiously, referencing the other $100 college degree thread, 5 books/semester * 2 semesters/year * 4 years = a college degree.)

    My rough overall point is that not all categories are created equal, and copyright could use reform by dividing it into certain kinds of categories.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  76. Re: well crafted essay by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    "Couldn't the point have been better made with a well crafted essay?"

    I don't think so, because according to literary convention, there are many emotional tones essays are "not supposed to have". The easiest example is that fiction can take time out for excitement such as trying to evade Agent Smith in the Matrix or a courtroom drama or defusing a bomb while there are airplanes shooting at you. More subtly, fictional characters operate in their context, so they can "show not tell" aspects of the theme, such as swearing when the situation gets really hard (because only one candidate will be left standing in the space ship commander test). In an essay you'd be stuck with "this is a very difficult test and there will be emotional problems among the candidates."

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  77. The Pedestrian, a short story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Pedestrian - my favourite - also about Leanard Mead; but I am not sure if this was written before or after Far. 451.

    Luckily I have not yet been taken to The Centre for Regressive Tendencies.

    RIP.

  78. Re: Fiction by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

    This reminds me of something I always thought as a child.
    I'd watch gameshows, they would give away either prizes or trips.
    I always thought the trips were a waste.
    "why, after all, would I want a trip. It's done and gone, and then you have nothing. Give me the items!".
    Then, i got older, and learned otherwise.
    and if you already are, then...wow, I have nothing else to say.

  79. Copyrights - a Modest Proposal by hicksw · · Score: 1

    Since this has degenerated into a series of copyright rants, I will make a modest proposal.

    Since IP is property, declare its value, to be taxed annually, everywhere -- frequently, in many jurisdictions.

    And as in claiming races, require the holder to sell the rights to whoever offers to pay the declared value.

    Allow the holder to release IP to the public domain, ending its tax burden.

    That should get older IP into the public domain. And get immortal corporations to rethink sitting on rights forever.

    That isn't nearly as bold as Dean Swift's contribution to modesty and propositions.
    --
    Law of truly large numbers - almost all numbers are larger than you can imagine.