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FBI Used FedEx To Sneak Dotcom's Hard Drives Out of NZ
First time accepted submitter bpkiwi writes "FBI agents, working with New Zealand police on the Megaupload case, took a copy of Kim Dotcom's hard drives and then immediately sneaked out of the police facility and FedEx'ed them back to the USA. Despite the fact that removal of evidence in this manner without official approval (and a chance for the defendant to challenge it) appears to be illegal, the New Zealand government is now left arguing on a technicality — that the law only covers 'physical' items." Things got slightly better for Megaupload users trying to get their files back today. In a court filing the MPAA said users can have their files back as long as access to copyrighted files is blocked. “The MPAA Members are sympathetic to legitimate users who may have relied on Megaupload to store their legitimately acquired or created data, although the Megaupload terms of use clearly disclaimed any guarantee of continued access to uploaded materials,” MPAA lawyers write.
Wait, the MPAA is claiming the Megaupload EULA/TOS as a reason why people shouldn't get their data back? That's kinda a dick move.
Also, if I was the NZ government, I would be asking FedEx some pretty hard questions. Like: "Considering that you helped a foreign power conspire to break NZ law, why should we allow you to continue to work in our country?"
So then what are the hard drives made of if they are not physical?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
it would be tortious interference of contract, but because they've bought themselves criminalization of copyright violations, we now have the FBI chasing halfway around the world for stuff like this. Great going, FBI!
Dog is my co-pilot.
When the revolution comes, MPAA's CEO and the managers under him should be in the line for beheading. (Or we could just pass a constitutional amendment that corporations don't have human rights and are not a fictional "person" under the law.)
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
An actual altering of the magnetic particles on the disk between 1 and 0 states.
So it is a physical item. Lots and lots and lots of them. Billions of bits worth of physical items.
What seems to cover this would be say copyrights. And everyones all hard-on for defending copyrights these days...
So the goverments and riaa/mpaa/whoever broke the ONE rule they expect the rest of us to follow.. Not breaking peoples copyrights and illegally copying data.
the ONE THING they want us not to do.. they did in this case. lol
Looks like everyone involved here all agree.... Fuck copyrights. kim dotcom did nothing wrong. the goverment of the usa did nothing wrong. the goverment of new zealand did nothing wrong. Everyone needs to have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. EVERYONE involved is guilty.
So isn't practically everything created by someone not in the public domain copyrighted? What is musicians stored their music on megaupload? Don't my personal pictures basically have copyright unless I place them in the public domain? What in the world is the MPAA even saying?
One of the reasons for the law about shipping evidence out would be to make sure the evidence isn't lost or modified. So in this case the physicality of the data actually is relevant and the law may make sense.
Of course there are separate issues of privacy.
if people can have access to their files as long as copyrighted files are blocked, then who's checking each and every file to make sure they're not owned by MPAA members?
The phrase "users can have their files back as long as access to copyrighted files is blocked" is meaningless as everything is subject to copyright.
So...if the FBI had access to the data, then the data could have been modified. So this makes all hard drives' data accessed by the fbi not useful for a trial.....right? Weird. I would like to know how many people agree in paying tax dollars to an agency to sneak private data just for a private company benefit. Well... like Irak/Afganistan "war"...use tax dollars through the army, navy, cia, etc... to protect private companies assets...that's a good investment!! Then, there is no money for medicare or public education..... Evolution or involution?
This article puts quite a different spin on it, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10811266 From the article: "He said he had contacted the agents to offer to take clones of the items to the United States Embassy only to find they had already sent the clones to the US." Sounds like the NZ cops were going to give it to the FBI but the FBI wasn't waiting from permission anyway.
FedEx aided in copying data illegally. FedEx should have filters in place blocking any illegal items (or data) from passing through their services, thus stopping companies and people from breaking the law. /SARCASM
I remember when the prosecution was opposing Kim's bail application, the reasoning for their opposition being that Kim would flee the country, being the dishonest rich person he is.
He never did.
And now the prosecution were caught doing unethical and illegal behavior.
Who are the dishonest ones here? Who are the criminals blatantly breaking the law?
Unsurprisingly, the majority of the NZ population side with Kim Dotcom throughout this entire farce.
One thing which you can be sure of.
The FBI have really screwed themselves in the future as NZ will be disinclined to help them on any other subject matter.
FBI: "Here are the forms required to extradite this person"
NZ: "Oh I'm sorry you seem to have missed form 4b. You will have to start all over again and there is a cooling off period of 2 years."
FBI: "Wait, there is a no form 4b".
The FBI has made illegal copies of copyrighted material owned by Kim Dotcom and exported the illegal copies to USA. Arrest the FBI for copyright infringement and FedEx for smuggling illegal counterfeits
Hey FBI G-Men! - DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!!! brought to you by the SIIA.
FEDGOV claims US citizens are subject to US law worldwide. So investigators going to NZ to ship "evidence" to USA in violation of any law, but particularly interstate traffic (from another country has been ruled interstate), means they violated DOMESTIC laws (US flagged vessels). File in USA for criminal violations against officials including prosecutors and agents who "conspired" to violate the law. Many layers of claims. Violation of profession, violation of pledge, violation of policy, violation of law, civil violations galore.
Finally. A case where the lawyers SHOULD become annoying.
JJ
Do not underestimate the bandwidth of a parcel filled harddrives overnighted to a foreign country half-way around the world.
The Admin and the Engineer
Surely there is a few thousand felonies in there somewhere with peoples' medical and financial information.
Why the hell does the MPAA have any say in a criminal matter? Do they actually own NZ or something?
A "ingenious" argument that file-sharers can cite as "proof" that copying isn't stealing. Not that it would help any would-be defendant in a copyright infringement case. Still, it's good counter-propaganda against those who like to make an emotional case for "pirates" being the digital equivalent of shoplifters, e.g. that you don't just walk into a record store and walk away with a CD without paying. Unlicensed downloads aren't a form of theft because you don't walk away with anything but the song in your head.
I'd like to know if they copied more than 10% of the data, and /or if that falls under the classification of fair use.
*Douuble snark*
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
$UCK DICK ..!..
What MPAA wants to disallow is in bold...
"If the Court is willing to consider allowing access for users such as Mr. Goodwin to allow retrieval of files, it is essential that the mechanism include a procedure that ensures that any materials the users access and copy or download are not files that have been illegally uploaded to their accounts."
To that, I'll add "allegedly illegally uploaded." The court as a finder of law can't determine that the files were illegally uploaded; a finder of fact (jury) needs to do that.
If the evidence had been paper documents and the NZ police had let the FBI take xerox copies back to the USA would you say that they took evidence out of the country? The actual evidence --the actual, original drives-- is still in NZ. No evidence was made unavailable to the defense. I oppose criminal prosecution for copyright infringement, but let's try not to invent bogus outrages. The real ones are quite sufficient.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Soooo does this mean the US Federal government agrees that copying data without permission isn't a crime?
Sure sounds like it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
What I'm wondering...
If the FBI exfiltrated millions of dollars in stolen software....
isn't that economic espionage by definition? I mean -- when they shipped out of country, did they declare on the customs forms:
"Hard drives", "evidence" or...
$50,000,000,000,000 of pirated software...
Did they pay the tariffs and taxes?
I'm sure they can import it to the US just fine however they declared it... but if I was them, I'd be watching to see if NZ arrests their family, relatives, or them on any subsequent visits...
Even if it's with cooperation of local law enforcement, getting caught in espionage while acting under the control of a foreign power is... serious fucking business...
And have no doubts about it -- smuggling police evidence out of its jurisdiction, even if using law enforcement agents... is exactly a form of espionage.
They'd be lucky to spend a decade in jail if caught again.
You people are all insane.
"that the law only covers 'physical' items." If the is true then the case against Dotcom is negated. If there is no physical material missing it is not theft. And digital copies preserve the original version, there is nothing taken, just copied. And the option to copy was given by the same people who file law suits I feel the plaintiff should be tried with fraud with the intent to deprive people of money and/or property.
This is a stupid posting that is worded to make the government sound they did something wrong for the sake of getting hits when they didnt. They didnt take any evidence, they didnt steal anything, they didnt sneak out anything. All they did was copy information for their own use in the case. Its no different than if they took a picture or photocopied something. They didnt break any laws.
Besides even if they did who the hell is going to hold them accountable? No one thats who because its the US government.
Sounds like espionage to me, and know the USA has laws against that!
No no no, the FBI did not violate copyright by taking the data.
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
Prosecution of MU counts as a judicial proceeding which is an exemption.
I look forward to the quick action of the US government to put an end to it.
While it's unlikely that any FBI agents would face charges of contempt of court, judges don't like being lied to, or having their orders ignored. Given the FBI's behaviour, I wouldn't be too surprised if the judge denied the extradition request solely on the basis of the actions of the FBI.
In short, the FBI are acting like arrogant bullies and they are going to destroy their own case.
because it took an agent weeks to track down the package and pick it up from one of FEDEX's distribution centers in the boonies...
... just trolling because I've had to do that 3 times this in the last week with this guys.
Mod me down, I shall become more off-topic than you could possibly imagine.
Do the FBI etc. realise that if they allowed Megaupload to continue running, with additional hardware/software from them, they could turn Megaupload into a mega honeypot?
I was once used as a 'honeypot' when my credit card started getting fraudulent charges made to it, it took constant phone complaints spanning 5 MONTHS before I finally got the card cancelled and the fraudulent charges refunded, so why can't they use the same method of tracking everyone who accesses 'copyrighted' material from the service?
"Copying information is theft when MPAA says it is, but copying information is not theft when the NZ Feds, acting on FBI's behalf, who themselves were acting on MPAA's behalf, say it isn't!"
The U.S. government is VERY corrupt. The gap between rich and everyone else is getting bigger very rapidly. The rich and big corporations can break any law, it seems.
For one of many, many examples, read the book Fiasco: The Inside Story of a Wall Street Trader, published in 1999, long before the 2008 financial theft. Even in 1999, traders called their theft "ripping the customer's face off".
"NZ doesn't have any Feds."
In that case, "Feds" just means "government".
"They weren't talking about nor being accused of theft..."
Depriving the legal, rightful owners of property is theft.
Still want to store your data in "the cloud"?
My files were unaffected, because they are on MY hard drive, (and back up drive and CD-R's) not in the goddamned cloud.
I can only hope this will be a lesson to everyone who is thinking storing files on computers not under your own positive, physical control is a bone-headed moron idea, unless they don't matter, AND can't incriminate you.
As for anyone of you who used Megaupload and thinks you're safe because the data was encrypted... you're not. Unless you hand-encrypted it with a truly randomly generated, one-time pad cipher, the fact that you've encrypted it won't keep 'them' from reading your data, it'll just take them a little longer, but they have you're data, and know who you are, etc. So just wait around for a bit, they'll get to you eventually.
I wonder though... if whomever was running that server group by any chance read Neil Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, and implemented that magnetic-media erasing device built into all the door frames... (I have wondered if that would actually work...)
If I were running a site like that, every chassis with hard drives in it would also have an anti-tamper thermite jacket around each drive, so if the drive was removed incorrectly, or if any attempt was made to tamper with the security system, it would turn the drives to molten slag.
So, it's OK for FBI to commit crimes against other countries?
of course this is no problem, because they do not need to give anything back.
just remember: every file is copyrighted. The difference is, who the copyright holder is.
n/t
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
So - did the FBI then pay import taxes for importing those harddrives to the USA?
"took a copy of Kim Dotcom's hard drives"
Did they obtain permission of all the copyright holders before taking a copy?
Oh wait. FBI following the rule of law? Never mind.
RTFA: "Crown lawyer John Pike, for the attorney-general, said the material stored on the hard drives could be shipped overseas". Hence, the NZ authorities do not believe NZ law was broken. The only people who get their knickers in a knot over this are those who simply don't like US law enforcement to do anything overseas, even with the consent of foreign governments.
Furthermore, what kind of idiotic idea is it to hold FedEx responsible even if the FBI had broken NZ law? How in the world is FedEx supposed to determine whether a hard drive shipped by the FBI (which was probably encrypted anyway) contained information that may or may not have a bearing on a court case in NZ? Do you even stop to think for a second before you write?
I love the FedEx driver because he is a drug dealer and he don't even know it.
All of your statement however doesn't take into account the fact that laws don't apply to those with power.
Or I believe the quote is something close to "Everyone is created equal, but some are more equal than others".
Pixie dust!
The FBI won't obey the law in this country, what makes you think they would obey the law anywhere else?
How much coke can you fit in a hard drive enclosure?
Colombians want to know.
It wouldn't violate any MPAA/RIAA copyrights, so it would probably be OK.
--
Advertise cyanide capsules as v1agra and sell them via spam. Problem solved.
American police in NZ are basically tourists... but a private citizen can violate the right to prevent warrantless search and seizure.
If the FBI in NZ is not considered an entity requiring a warrant where they are operating, and they hand off evidence to an entity which indemnifies a warrantless seizure, has any crime been committed?
The question boils down to whether USA agents are bound to US law. And in the recent Secret Service / South America prostitution scandal, the Executive branch had to state, very recently, that [some group] is governed by homeland law, even while in a foreign country. That happened after the seizure.
So, was this actually illegal under the law at the time of seizure, according to US law?
the belgian constitution offers protection of secrecy and privacy 'for any letter given to the post office' roughly translated, so just in case it would come in handy they could snoop on your emails and sms at anytime without a warrant and risk of procedure fault ? probably problem with the necktie idiots building loopholes in their laws just in case is that anyone can use them
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?