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FBI Used FedEx To Sneak Dotcom's Hard Drives Out of NZ
First time accepted submitter bpkiwi writes "FBI agents, working with New Zealand police on the Megaupload case, took a copy of Kim Dotcom's hard drives and then immediately sneaked out of the police facility and FedEx'ed them back to the USA. Despite the fact that removal of evidence in this manner without official approval (and a chance for the defendant to challenge it) appears to be illegal, the New Zealand government is now left arguing on a technicality — that the law only covers 'physical' items." Things got slightly better for Megaupload users trying to get their files back today. In a court filing the MPAA said users can have their files back as long as access to copyrighted files is blocked. “The MPAA Members are sympathetic to legitimate users who may have relied on Megaupload to store their legitimately acquired or created data, although the Megaupload terms of use clearly disclaimed any guarantee of continued access to uploaded materials,” MPAA lawyers write.
Wait, the MPAA is claiming the Megaupload EULA/TOS as a reason why people shouldn't get their data back? That's kinda a dick move.
Also, if I was the NZ government, I would be asking FedEx some pretty hard questions. Like: "Considering that you helped a foreign power conspire to break NZ law, why should we allow you to continue to work in our country?"
So then what are the hard drives made of if they are not physical?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
it would be tortious interference of contract, but because they've bought themselves criminalization of copyright violations, we now have the FBI chasing halfway around the world for stuff like this. Great going, FBI!
Dog is my co-pilot.
When the revolution comes, MPAA's CEO and the managers under him should be in the line for beheading. (Or we could just pass a constitutional amendment that corporations don't have human rights and are not a fictional "person" under the law.)
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
An actual altering of the magnetic particles on the disk between 1 and 0 states.
So it is a physical item. Lots and lots and lots of them. Billions of bits worth of physical items.
What seems to cover this would be say copyrights. And everyones all hard-on for defending copyrights these days...
So the goverments and riaa/mpaa/whoever broke the ONE rule they expect the rest of us to follow.. Not breaking peoples copyrights and illegally copying data.
the ONE THING they want us not to do.. they did in this case. lol
Looks like everyone involved here all agree.... Fuck copyrights. kim dotcom did nothing wrong. the goverment of the usa did nothing wrong. the goverment of new zealand did nothing wrong. Everyone needs to have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. EVERYONE involved is guilty.
So isn't practically everything created by someone not in the public domain copyrighted? What is musicians stored their music on megaupload? Don't my personal pictures basically have copyright unless I place them in the public domain? What in the world is the MPAA even saying?
One of the reasons for the law about shipping evidence out would be to make sure the evidence isn't lost or modified. So in this case the physicality of the data actually is relevant and the law may make sense.
Of course there are separate issues of privacy.
if people can have access to their files as long as copyrighted files are blocked, then who's checking each and every file to make sure they're not owned by MPAA members?
So...if the FBI had access to the data, then the data could have been modified. So this makes all hard drives' data accessed by the fbi not useful for a trial.....right? Weird. I would like to know how many people agree in paying tax dollars to an agency to sneak private data just for a private company benefit. Well... like Irak/Afganistan "war"...use tax dollars through the army, navy, cia, etc... to protect private companies assets...that's a good investment!! Then, there is no money for medicare or public education..... Evolution or involution?
This article puts quite a different spin on it, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10811266 From the article: "He said he had contacted the agents to offer to take clones of the items to the United States Embassy only to find they had already sent the clones to the US." Sounds like the NZ cops were going to give it to the FBI but the FBI wasn't waiting from permission anyway.
FedEx aided in copying data illegally. FedEx should have filters in place blocking any illegal items (or data) from passing through their services, thus stopping companies and people from breaking the law. /SARCASM
I remember when the prosecution was opposing Kim's bail application, the reasoning for their opposition being that Kim would flee the country, being the dishonest rich person he is.
He never did.
And now the prosecution were caught doing unethical and illegal behavior.
Who are the dishonest ones here? Who are the criminals blatantly breaking the law?
Unsurprisingly, the majority of the NZ population side with Kim Dotcom throughout this entire farce.
One thing which you can be sure of.
The FBI have really screwed themselves in the future as NZ will be disinclined to help them on any other subject matter.
FBI: "Here are the forms required to extradite this person"
NZ: "Oh I'm sorry you seem to have missed form 4b. You will have to start all over again and there is a cooling off period of 2 years."
FBI: "Wait, there is a no form 4b".
The FBI has made illegal copies of copyrighted material owned by Kim Dotcom and exported the illegal copies to USA. Arrest the FBI for copyright infringement and FedEx for smuggling illegal counterfeits
Hey FBI G-Men! - DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!!! brought to you by the SIIA.
Do not underestimate the bandwidth of a parcel filled harddrives overnighted to a foreign country half-way around the world.
The Admin and the Engineer
Surely there is a few thousand felonies in there somewhere with peoples' medical and financial information.
I'd like to know if they copied more than 10% of the data, and /or if that falls under the classification of fair use.
*Douuble snark*
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
My files were encrypted.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
What MPAA wants to disallow is in bold...
"If the Court is willing to consider allowing access for users such as Mr. Goodwin to allow retrieval of files, it is essential that the mechanism include a procedure that ensures that any materials the users access and copy or download are not files that have been illegally uploaded to their accounts."
To that, I'll add "allegedly illegally uploaded." The court as a finder of law can't determine that the files were illegally uploaded; a finder of fact (jury) needs to do that.
If the evidence had been paper documents and the NZ police had let the FBI take xerox copies back to the USA would you say that they took evidence out of the country? The actual evidence --the actual, original drives-- is still in NZ. No evidence was made unavailable to the defense. I oppose criminal prosecution for copyright infringement, but let's try not to invent bogus outrages. The real ones are quite sufficient.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Soooo does this mean the US Federal government agrees that copying data without permission isn't a crime?
Sure sounds like it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You people are all insane.
"that the law only covers 'physical' items." If the is true then the case against Dotcom is negated. If there is no physical material missing it is not theft. And digital copies preserve the original version, there is nothing taken, just copied. And the option to copy was given by the same people who file law suits I feel the plaintiff should be tried with fraud with the intent to deprive people of money and/or property.
I look forward to the quick action of the US government to put an end to it.
Nononono you have it all wrong. The US is against information LEAVING the U.S., this stuff was coming INTO the U.S.
While it's unlikely that any FBI agents would face charges of contempt of court, judges don't like being lied to, or having their orders ignored. Given the FBI's behaviour, I wouldn't be too surprised if the judge denied the extradition request solely on the basis of the actions of the FBI.
In short, the FBI are acting like arrogant bullies and they are going to destroy their own case.
Why are you linking to a US law? They were in New Zealand, a sovereign nation in the south pacific, which doesn't come under US Jurisdiction. We don't have a fair use clause here
because it took an agent weeks to track down the package and pick it up from one of FEDEX's distribution centers in the boonies...
... just trolling because I've had to do that 3 times this in the last week with this guys.
Mod me down, I shall become more off-topic than you could possibly imagine.
For the 3rd or 4th time in this story you've posted the same thing. And yet again I'll reply that the laws you cite do not apply to copying anything in NEW ZEALAND. The FBI has no jurisdiction in New Zealand and must comply with NZ courts. In this case the NZ courts set a hearing date to decide if the FBI should have access to any information, the FBI ignored the NZ Courts and simply copied and FedEx'ed the 18 hard drives copied out of New Zealand without even telling the NZ Police first.
So is he being prosecuted under US or NZ law?
It doesn't matter if Kim is prosecuted under US or NZ law. The FBI agent committed a crime in NZ soil, by copying Kim's personal documents and shipping it, without proper authorization. The agent can be prosecuted in NZ for copyright infringement, even possibly extradited from the US (if he has already left NZ).
If he is extradited, he will of course be prosectuted under US law, but at this stage, he and all the evidence secured from the raids is under NZ jurisdiction until the NZ legal system makes a decision.
I can't work out if people are deliberately missing the point on this or genuinely don't understand that NZ is a separate country with it's own laws which have to be followed. This entire thread is filled with people arguing that the FBI can do what they like because they represent the US government and variations on that theme completely ignoring that the US government, it's law enforcement agencies and it's laws don't extend beyond US territory.
You don't even need to be a lawyer to work this out just follow some basic logic, the whole point of Extradition Treaties is so that one country can get access to someone who are outside their own jurisdiction, therefore the need for extradition shows US laws and law enforcement agents don't apply and the local legal system applies.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
Mega upload did not use cloud computing, stop making things up.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
of course this is no problem, because they do not need to give anything back.
just remember: every file is copyrighted. The difference is, who the copyright holder is.
n/t
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
RTFA: "Crown lawyer John Pike, for the attorney-general, said the material stored on the hard drives could be shipped overseas". Hence, the NZ authorities do not believe NZ law was broken. The only people who get their knickers in a knot over this are those who simply don't like US law enforcement to do anything overseas, even with the consent of foreign governments.
Furthermore, what kind of idiotic idea is it to hold FedEx responsible even if the FBI had broken NZ law? How in the world is FedEx supposed to determine whether a hard drive shipped by the FBI (which was probably encrypted anyway) contained information that may or may not have a bearing on a court case in NZ? Do you even stop to think for a second before you write?
How much coke can you fit in a hard drive enclosure?
Colombians want to know.
It wouldn't violate any MPAA/RIAA copyrights, so it would probably be OK.
--
Advertise cyanide capsules as v1agra and sell them via spam. Problem solved.
American police in NZ are basically tourists... but a private citizen can violate the right to prevent warrantless search and seizure.
If the FBI in NZ is not considered an entity requiring a warrant where they are operating, and they hand off evidence to an entity which indemnifies a warrantless seizure, has any crime been committed?
The question boils down to whether USA agents are bound to US law. And in the recent Secret Service / South America prostitution scandal, the Executive branch had to state, very recently, that [some group] is governed by homeland law, even while in a foreign country. That happened after the seizure.
So, was this actually illegal under the law at the time of seizure, according to US law?
the belgian constitution offers protection of secrecy and privacy 'for any letter given to the post office' roughly translated, so just in case it would come in handy they could snoop on your emails and sms at anytime without a warrant and risk of procedure fault ? probably problem with the necktie idiots building loopholes in their laws just in case is that anyone can use them
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?