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Will IBM's Watson Kill Your Career?

Nerval's Lobster writes "IBM's Watson made major headlines last year when it trounced its human rivals on Jeopardy. But Watson isn't just sitting around spinning trivia questions to stump the champs: IBM is working hard on taking it into a series of vertical markets such as healthcare, contact management and financial services to see if the system can be used for diagnosing diseases and catching market trends. Does this spell the end for certain careers? Not really, but it does raise some interesting thoughts and issues."

206 comments

  1. This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Technology and automation were only supposed to drive efficiencies and innovations that made people who weren't me obsolete!

    1. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The real question is what do we do when it makes 90% of jobs unneeded?
      I would love to think star trek, but dystopia is far more likely than utopia.

    2. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People can never be made obsolete. Only jobs can be made obsolete.

      And again, like I say in every one of these topics, if the benefits of increased efficiency do not accrue to the entire economy, that's a problem with the economic system, not the increased efficiency. Ideally, increased efficiency should abolish the need for some work allowing us to spend more of our time doing things we want. The fact that it actually ends up enriching the rich and leaving the working classes (and now the thinking classes) destitute is a fundamental problem with capitalism.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My understanding is that we hire ~10% of the surplus to guard the prisons that hold the remainder.

    4. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We get killed by riot control robots, and eventually there will be a few thousand elite owners in the world served by their robot infrastructure...and those few people will eventually disappear, and the robot system will gradually wind down and the earth will have no intelligent life, save for dolphins and apes (assuming there are any left in the future, not guaranteed.)

    5. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Jeng · · Score: 4, Informative

      The real question is what do we do when it makes 90% of jobs unneeded?
      I would love to think star trek, but dystopia is far more likely than utopia.

      Here is a short story that explores that topic rather well.

      http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    6. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by tagno25 · · Score: 1

      You didn't watch TNG did you? Eugenics Wars, Sanctuary Districts, WW3

    7. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not a fundamental problem with capitalism; it's a (very slowly) emerging consequence. Capitalism does not NEED to have this problem, as long as all participants are self-determining, self-interested, rational actors. It's just that all 3 of those points are, at best, approximately true or true for most participants. The introduction of AI into the equation just adds actors who aren't self-determining(the goals of their decisions are predefined) or self-interested(they are programmed/trained to be interested in their owner's success). That will eventually collapse the system, if prevalent enough.

      For the moment, though, there are enough tasks that humans are better at than computers that this does not need to be a concern. 50 years from now, being in a true capitalist economy will make your life hell.

    8. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      If we don't have to make things, then we'll need people to entertain us. If nothing else.

    9. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Hatta · · Score: 4, Informative

      Which is already happening in the US.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Stargoat · · Score: 3, Funny

      In all likelihood, they'll re-evolve eventually. I for one welcome our new re-evolved insect overlords.

      --
      Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    11. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by DangerOnTheRanger · · Score: 1

      Someone will have to build and maintain those computer systems. At least until the systems themselves are capable of that job, and by then, you should be very, very afraid...

    12. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AI couldn't produce entertainment, studying what interests humans?

    13. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      so emm,
      it sounds like a real nice expensive ploy to have something able to store more facts and recall them for a popquiz, but how does this watson really work
      does it just store and recall, like most average students with persistence would get above average scores because they store extensive amounts of data without really getting it or being able to link this bit to the other, one keyword invokes a set of data, just like a search engine would, right
      or does it try to simulate a human brain, i dont think that is the case since no one understands it yet
      that's why einstein was einstein, neutrinos or not

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    14. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing fundamentally wring with capitalism except that one of the fundamentals... rational actors ... is completely fucking hopessly wrong.

      Good answer. You really showed him.

    15. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It's not a neural network. The mathematics is far beyond my level, but from what little I understand it's a natural-language parser linked to one hell of a correlation-finder. It identifies concepts, and tries to work out how the concepts relate to other concepts. If a question contains concepts A, B and C, Watson will look through a vast database and find that A, B and C are all often mentioned in connection with D, so D might be relivent.

    16. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      90%? Heck I can see a time when it is close to 100%. The only job Watson can't do is prostitute, and by then the robots will have those jobs.

    17. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by hackula · · Score: 1

      Can't we just skip that stuff: "Watson, bring up the schematics for a Warp Drive!" Why wait for Cochran to make first contact and usher in a new age of peace when we have Watson?

    18. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by flyingsquid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      if the benefits of increased efficiency do not accrue to the entire economy, that's a problem with the economic system, not the increased efficiency. Ideally, increased efficiency should abolish the need for some work allowing us to spend more of our time doing things we want. The fact that it actually ends up enriching the rich and leaving the working classes (and now the thinking classes) destitute is a fundamental problem with capitalism.

      The fundamental problem is that increased efficiency is likely to result in a situation where you have a surplus of labor and a shortage of talent. The people who end up replaced by machines will be the people who are easily replaced by machines because their job isn't that hard- it doesn't require much training, experience, or ability. You might be able to throw together a voice recognition system, a crude AI, and a robotic arm and replace the teenager working at the McDonald's drive-thru window. But you can't replace someone like a Steve Jobs, a Mark Zuckerberg, or a Sergei Brin with a computer, you can't even easily replace them with another person, because they are exceptionally good at doing an exceptionally hard job. That's why CEOs are paid millions of dollars to run major corporations- because when the difference between the right person and the almost-right person is billions of dollars in profit, paying a CEO tens of millions of dollars is a sound investment in the success of the company. Their talent is worth that much. The difference between Steve Jobs and pretty much anyone else on the planet was Apple failing, versus Apple turning into the largest company in the world, and that's worth a lot of money.

      So when those drive-through employees end up unemployed, it doesn't mean that the CEO gets to do less work. It's not like drive-through guy could be hired to come in and run Facebook for a few hours a day so that Zuckerberg can go and have some downtime. The result is that instead of everybody working less, we may end up with more people poor and unemployed, and a few people overworked and rich. We may already be seeing this happening, as pay for a handful of elite performers- the CEOs, hedge fund managers, rock stars, professional athletes, blockbuster novelists, movie producers, etc. has gone up, while overall wages have stagnated or gone down.

    19. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Gilmoure · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget raccoons. Are fearfully smart and have that opposable thumb thing going on.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    20. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whats with all the socialist trolls, go away already stick to the topic.

    21. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      A cross between Star Trek: Voyager, Cupcake King, Mansquito vs MegaPython, and Dancing With The Stars?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    22. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by SilentStaid · · Score: 1

      Ah, good sir! May I introduce you into an important work of science soon-to-be-not fiction? The story of Manna picks up at the end of this Slashdot article, apparently. Seriously though, it's an interesting and thought provoking read... and it's free.

      http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

    23. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Capitalism does not NEED to have this problem, as long as all participants are self-determining, self-interested, rational actors.

      Assuming all those things, how would capitalism solve this problem? If you only need the labor of 1/10th of 1 percent of the population to support the entire population, how does the other 99.9% earn their keep?

      The only answer is by encouraging people to buy things they don't need. But that just means people need to work more to buy things they don't need. Which destroys the whole point of increasing efficiency in the first place.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    24. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by SilentStaid · · Score: 1

      I happened to see your post after posting the same link myself. I'm glad to see someone else has read it. I first read that story a little over a year ago and it was the first thing that I thought of after reading this headline. I'm inclined to agree with the OP that dystopia is more likely, but I can't help but hope for otherwise.

    25. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A good point about opportunity, except that the number of people who build and maintain those systems will be far in deficit from the total number of workers displaced by their very existence. Ideally, you would maintain the same workforce and use those computer systems as a force multiplier for all, but the emphasis these days is "do more with less" rather than "do a whole lot more with the same".

    26. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no! Maybe you should reinvent yourself to remain relevant instead of whining about someone moving the cheese you believe you're "entitled" to.

      Oh wait, I forgot: you're a liberal. Carry on, then.

    27. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      you can't replace someone like a Steve Jobs, a Mark Zuckerberg, or a Sergei Brin with a computer YET

      ftfy

    28. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Pursuit of Art, Science, Literature. Computers aren't very good at creative things.

    29. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by ultranova · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that we hire ~10% of the surplus to guard the prisons that hold the remainder.

      Why? Just use robots. A camp with two fences and automated turrets shooting anything that moves between them is quite sufficient. Or you can just go the British route of turning the whole nation into a giant Panopticon.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    30. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Hatta · · Score: 1

      How much demand for that is there going to be when only 0.1% of the population produces anything? Can a thousand people in a factory actually use the creative output of a million people?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    31. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by erik.erikson · · Score: 1

      C'mon now... The economic output of a dystopia is so much drastically lower than that of a utopia that our robotic overlords will never allow one to develop. ;-)

      Incidentally, if you are interested in financing the development of our robotic overlords, look me up.

    32. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Concentrated power capitalism does not care about your self-determining, self-interested, rational actors. Only distributed power capitalism cares because the self-determining, self-interested, rational actors are members of the system.

    33. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Matheus · · Score: 1

      Excellent story! It's pretty rare you get Utopia and Distopia presented together in one story so well. After reading the second half of the story I'm saying "Sign me up!" with no reservations... I only hope we as a civilization can get there someday (in my lifetime preferably)

    34. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by malhombre · · Score: 1

      Downloaded as ebook to my Kindle Fire in less than 2 minutes after reading the post. Man, automation is awesome!
      Oh, wait...

    35. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by BadPirate · · Score: 1

      As a software engineer, I'll get worried only when Watson is capable of writing code.

      As a human being, I'll get worried when Watson is capable of writing code.

      --
      - Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.
    36. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      so what's your answer? socialism? that can be just as cruel. despite everyone's bandwagoneering of the ideology, it's quite possible, maybe even easier to build, a draconian society with it. I think the issue is a lot larger than any single ideology or economic system.

    37. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's called a "post scarcity society" and at that point you can throw out most of economics because economics only applies to scarce resources.

    38. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Computers aren't very good at creative things.

      Yet.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    39. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting story, but as an AI Researcher it is rather absurd. I simply cannot see people building an AI (Mana in this story) to handle to complex tasks of management before they build one to handle the simpler tasks, like making fires and hamburgers. Aside from Mana making as much sense as a space faring, stone age civilization, the system wouldn't work anyways.

      Voice is to low bandwidth and to low latency to effectively micromanage people they way Mana does it the story. And many tasks are highly, highly subjective, while a fast food restrunant might cook all food for a fixed time, anything more expensive cooks it until it is done, which can vary based on the tempature, humidity, and the unique variations in the food being cooked, no amount of voice guidance would allow someone to make a good steak. Similarly when it mentions performing surgery by directing technitions I gave up, surgery isn't so much about following a recipe, though that is important, fine motor control, and improvisation are key. Finally no system could blacklist any sizable percentage of a countries work force, because then other business would hire those people, or they would start their own business themselves.

      Finally the problem of robots replacing people ignores fact that robots for free, so when you are no longer paying people to do jobs the robots are doing, you have a lot of extra money to spend paying people to do things that you couldn't afford before, like having unique paintings on every wall of your house.

    40. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Sadly, USA culture has been indoctrinated with the idea that socialism is evil, and the same label has been attached to communism as well.
      Which is really silly as communism is still very much a theoretical concept, and socialism is simply "taking care of your own" economy expanded on the entire community.
      But since it is spread over the entire community it is no longer nepotism but humanism.

      On the other hand, capitalism has always been fundamentally flawed.
      It's great at pushing the making of more widgets faster and cheaper - but that's about it.
      It completely fails to grasp any immaterial human-benefiting concept such as "happiness" or even rather material concepts such as "well being".
      All it deals with is more, faster, cheaper.

      The thing is, the world has moved away from the "widget based" economy some time ago.
      We've been running an "information based" economic system since Nixon "shocked" the world economy into using a fiat dollar for all their trading.
      Fiat currency is just a law, and law is just information encapsulated in such a way that the practical implementation of it protects the interests of a certain group of people.

      And when your economy is just numbers in a computer somewhere - more, faster, cheaper no longer matters.
      After all, you can now get more by trading faster, and the process is ridiculously cheap compared to the amount of money it is able to produce literally out of thin air.

      And capitalism sucks at trying to deal with immaterial.
      Just look at patent system, music industry and anything else dealing with "intellectual property".
      All the nonsense happening there is a product of a system used to dealing with physical, material, scarce things - now having to deal with immaterial things which spread and multiply on their own with each contact with a human.
      You know... Ideas. Information.

      The sooner that is accepted the better off we're all going to be.
      Cause right now, some are desperately trying to hammer a negative liberty system like capitalism, onto a positive liberty society we are trying to be.
      Socialism is a little better at it, cause in it everyone essentially trades in some negative liberty so that everyone could have a chance to achieve positive liberty.

      Only problem is, most people have very low motivation towards positive liberty, or none at all. Many are perfectly happy being a couch potato.
      So, you must either trick them OR limit their negative liberty further and MAKE them seek positive liberty for themselves.
      Somewhere on that scale, there is a point where most people in a society have all their material needs satisfied and are dedicated to achieving their full potential.
      Just around a corner from that point starts the slippery slope towards a totalitarian society where everyone MUST achieve their full potential for the glory of the society.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    41. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      In Star Trek, people still have jobs.

      (The "Jetsons" job, of sitting and pushing a single button all day, when they have very useful/functional robots, is really funny.)

    42. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      arent self determining: corporations. (the legal fiction has no will of its own, is controlled by others, but is treated in the market as an individual with rights)
      arent self interested:corporations (they exist to benefit the shareholders, their existence is dependent on shareholders profits, not the production of the workers)
      corporations are a form of AI, or perhaps an alien species, whose presence here is poisonous. stripping corporations of any and all rights formerly reserved exclusively for humans, and extending human rights to those creatures much more like us than corporations (animals and plants, and ecosystems) could make capitalism functional, esp. if you make the local, state and federal govt the main source for capital, ie democratically distributed. just saying.

    43. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Which is really silly as communism is still very much a theoretical concept, and socialism is simply "taking care of your own" economy expanded on the entire community.
      But since it is spread over the entire community it is no longer nepotism but humanism.

      No, it is not simply that. The devil's in the details.. In other words, on whose definitions is society supposed to operate on? Who takes the hit when the social ideology (whatever it is) conflicts with reality? Too often, it is the working class at the bottom that does, despite many socialist countries claiming to be 'workers' paradise.'

      On the other hand, capitalism has always been fundamentally flawed.
      It's great at pushing the making of more widgets faster and cheaper - but that's about it.
      It completely fails to grasp any immaterial human-benefiting concept such as "happiness" or even rather material concepts such as "well being".

      All it deals with is more, faster, cheaper.

      Capitalism and socialism are not polar opposites.. The former is an economic system, and the latter, a structure for governmental power. Socialism runs amok because it assumes any failure in the society is due to insufficient amounts of centralization. Socialism on paper claims to be about societal ownership of production, but it ends up being about control of production and its wealth by political autocrats. This is worse than capitalism because when these shrubs screw up, they can lean on the backs of the workers to finance the recovery. Here in the states, we have the worst combination of socialism and capitalism: we have the state bailing out failing corporate leadership.

      And capitalism sucks at trying to deal with immaterial.
      Just look at patent system, music industry and anything else dealing with "intellectual property".
      All the nonsense happening there is a product of a system used to dealing with physical, material, scarce things - now having to deal with immaterial things which spread and multiply on their own with each contact with a human.
      You know... Ideas. Information.

      I agree here. However, in order for 'intellectual property' to work, a huge governmental influence is required. Basically, these things are false scarcity, something capitalism keeps in check. Without socialism, businessmen are welcome to build bridges leading nowhere all they want, but people will just bypass them.

      The sooner that is accepted the better off we're all going to be.
      Cause right now, some are desperately trying to hammer a negative liberty [wikipedia.org] system like capitalism, onto a positive liberty [wikipedia.org] society we are trying to be.
      Socialism is a little better at it, cause in it everyone essentially trades in some negative liberty so that everyone could have a chance to achieve positive liberty.

      Socialism is anything but a positive liberty system. It demands one hand over the fruits of his labors to the state for redistribution. In return, in theory, it gives individuals just what they need when they need it, but wants are irrelevant. It requires a heavy handed bureaucracy and surveillance in order to function at all because individuals well resist this cog-in-a-machine existence. Eventually, those in charge don't want to give up grabbing ever more control, making the government ever more top heavy until it collapses the economy. This is what happened to the soviet union, and china isn't exactly a place I'd like to work.

      So, you must either trick them OR limit their negative liberty further and MAKE them seek positive liberty for themselves.
      Somewhere on that scale, there is a point where most people in a society have all their material needs satisfied and are dedicated to achieving their full potential.
      Just around a corner from that point starts the slippery slope towards a totalitarian society where everyone MUST achieve their full potential for the glory of the society.

      Once you 'make' them, then liberty is dead. Forcing those who have to give to those who don't will NOT motivate either the haves or have-nots to work harder.

    44. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Given that cops and prison guards are in the enviable position of being 1)Often well unionized and 2)Unionized government workers that even Republican hardliners find it impolitic to hate, I'm guessing that we'll be leaving this one to the humans for a while yet...

    45. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      We get killed by riot control robots, and eventually there will be a few thousand elite owners in the world served by their robot infrastructure...

      It would actually be interesting to see how quickly suitably capable expert systems might kill off the plutocrats:

      Some sort of overgrown ERP AI or electronic trading algorithm could presumably execute the tasks associated with controlling large capital market holdings or a major business venture of some sort(if they let people like HP's board of directors tie their own shoelaces, let alone run a multinational, doing it better than the humans might not be so very far off...); but entirely lack any taste for large houses/yachts/expensive hookers/covert drug-fueled orgies in the secret sex dungeon built under their mansion/etc.

      I suspect that the legal system would be a trifle befuddled at the notion of a corporation that owns itself; but it isn't so very hard to imagine such a thing being technologically feasible and(by virtue of having no hobbies or human foibles whatsoever, expensive or otherwise) outcompeting otherwise equivalent entities that have meat-based managers who demand stock options and cocaine...

      Wouldn't be much comfort, either way, since the machines would likely pick off most of the little people first; but there would be a certain satisfying irony in having the end of human civilization occur without the slightest disruption to its myriad complex systems, just the gradual removal of the people that built them, leaving only civilization's systems behind, quietly grinding out the desires of people long since dust until the last of the thorium runs out...

    46. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by urusan · · Score: 1

      Why even go as far as encouraging people to buy more and more things they don't need?

      If one only needed 0.1% of the population to support the entire population, then the rest of the population is just one big cost center. Selling things to the people you're supporting is never a winning strategy. How can you profit from a sale you paid for (in wages)?

      Let's think about this in a simple model. Lets say we have five actors in a hypothetical economy: Farmer Joe who owns land that can produce food, Max the machinist who owns the tools to produce tools, and three workers named Tim, Larry, and Johnny who own nothing of real value other than themselves. Despite their different professions, Joe and Max are on the same economic level as owners while the other three are on a lower level as workers.

      In a large non-robotic economy, these five actors inhabit an open system, so the three workers can all get work. Farmer Joe can use plenty of hands because the more food he grows, the more food he can sell on the open market. Max can also use workers as the more tools he produces, the more tools he can sell. Joe and Max can buy things from outside actors using the extra money they get from selling to outside actors.

      However, if these five people constituted the entire economy (that is, they are in a closed economic system) then even without robots the workers might not all be able to find work. Joe and Max would be interested in trading with each other, so they would each want to produce some surplus to trade with the other owner in exchange for some of their differing goods, but why would they want to produce surplus just for the workers? From the owner's perspective, the only thing the workers are good for is producing additional surplus at the cost of siphoning some of that surplus off to support the worker, but with nobody other than the other owner able to buy those goods there's no reason to produce a surplus beyond the two owners' demands. Hiring a worker to produce a surplus that is then sold to that worker would essentially be a wash for the owner (as their profit is exactly constrained by the wages they pay the worker, which is also the labor cost)...in fact, it would be actually be more costly to support a worker in such a way than not, as there would be costs in raw materials and the like. Likely Joe and Max would each pick the best worker for them out of the three, so they could spend more of their time on leisure while the workers did the work and the third worker would be out of luck. Even if Joe and Max could profitably find work for three workers, there would be some point at which the available workers would exceed what Joe and Max could use.

      Robots completely ruin things for all three workers. The robots could do the same work at a far lower cost than the workers, so the robots would displace all the workers and only Joe and Max would remain. The owners use the robots to automatically produce enough for themselves and the other owner and then that is all they are interested in producing. There is no economic demand beyond the two owners, as the three workers are willing but not able to purchase the available goods without jobs.

      The same basic ideas work at a higher scale too, although of course reality is far more complex. Owners have all the economic power while the workers are essentially powerless. Robots that can replace workers cheaply makes workers useless, and therefore invariably replaces them.

      Our current mass economy has some different characteristics because:
      1. there are so many more owners in so many more industries than just the two in the example, which is especially apparent when you consider that "owner" is broad enough to include people like farmers (which constitute about 2% of the population in the US)
      2. there are enough essential workers that they end up with workers supporting them, which have workers supporting them, etc. This greatly multiplies how many jobs there are compared to owners.
      3. other issues cause the need for many worker-type

    47. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Hentes · · Score: 1

      As long as democracy remains, it will work the same as it does today: a huge governmental sector will employ these people giving them some alibi jobs.

    48. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deep analysis disguised as humor:

      http://www.cracked.com/article_18817_5-reasons-future-will-be-ruled-by-b.s..html

    49. Re:This Can't Be Happening!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy life with lots of spare time?

  2. I'll worry by bubulubugoth · · Score: 1

    The day Watson answers 42...

    --
    Â_Â
    1. Re:I'll worry by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 2

      42 already is the answer.

      I don't think you understand what the question is.

    2. Re:I'll worry by tom17 · · Score: 1

      "Approximately how many minutes would a theoretical 'gravity train' take to get from A to B on an earth-sized planet assuming that frictional losses can be completely overcome?"

    3. Re:I'll worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What's the potential velocity of a frictionless elephant on an inclined infinite plane?"

    4. Re:I'll worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should we assume the elephant is spherical? or maybe cubical?

    5. Re:I'll worry by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      African or European?

    6. Re:I'll worry by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      For elephants, the question is: African or Indian

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:I'll worry by tantrum · · Score: 1

      European elephants did go extinct fairly recently. And as The Question is quite old, I don't think we should completely rule them out.

  3. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Next question.

  4. Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by cmorriss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word 'no'."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines

    --
    10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
    1. Re:Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by arielCo · · Score: 5, Funny
      Coming up:

      Can any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word 'no'?

      --
      This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
    2. Re:Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Betteridge broke his own law.

    3. Re:Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by Guignol · · Score: 1

      Good one, too bad you messed it up, but unfortunately, the answer to your headline would actually be 'no' as you expected
      But then, Watson's cognitive powers would put your headline together with the others always being answered with 'no' so as to confirm the law, never seeing the joke, and further making your parent's point, which wasn't (I assume) so much about the law itself but to imply that the answer was obviously no

    4. Re:Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by HapSlappy_2222 · · Score: 1

      I think it's even better that the summary answered its own headline. Man, I wish my girlfriend would do that:

      Honey, do you want to talk about our relationship problems? I sure don't. (Woo!)

    5. Re:Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by arielCo · · Score: 1

      Oops, I accidentally wrote the whole thing twice accidentally

      --
      This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
    6. Re:Betteridge's law of headlines wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am disappoint, /.

      I should have to RTFA to find out the headline question is complete bullshit, not the summary.

      It's like you're not even trying.

  5. Get a life by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Hey! Get a life, a Half-Life. Work for Valve.

    1. Re:Get a life by BadPirate · · Score: 1

      Umm.. Placed recruiting advertisement?

      --
      - Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.
  6. Watson is a better button pusher by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The only reason Watson "trounced" its rivals was because it was faster at pushing the button.

    It was unable to answer questions that required any thought or insight. It was just looking up the answers in a database based on patterns in the questions. The only reason it won was because of better reaction time in pushing the button. If the questions were asked in a fair round-robin to all contestants, Watson would not have won.

    1. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason Watson "trounced" its rivals was because it was faster at pushing the button.

      It was unable to answer questions that required any thought or insight. It was just looking up the answers in a database based on patterns in the questions. The only reason it won was because of better reaction time in pushing the button. If the questions were asked in a fair round-robin to all contestants, Watson would not have won.

      Are you sure about this? 100% certainty?

    2. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So your argument seems to be that Watson was almost as good at finding the correct answer (otherwise his fast reaction time would not have helped him), but won only because he was faster. But in most jobs, being a fraction of a second faster/slower is not particularly important. Furthermore, being almost-as-good, but doing so 100% of the time 24/7/365, and requiring only electricity and routine maintenance... would be rather attractive to a lot of employers.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Furthermore, a human is responsible for turning on the buttons once Alex finishes reading the question. Watson got an electronic signal of the instant this was activated, and as such, would always buzz in with perfect timing if it had the answer. No two humans would ever be able to match each other's reaction times that well.

      The human contestants only ever got to buzz in if
      A) the clue was too short for Watson to calculate the answer before the buzzers opened
      B) Watson had no idea and wasn't going to guess at all
      C) they tried to jump the buzzers getting activated, lucking into landing after the buzzers opened but before Watson's buzzer actuator could depress

    4. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by RonBurk · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, I thought I recalled seeing at least one question where Watson was beaten to the buzzer. Maybe it just had no answer at all and I misinterpreted that.

    5. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by boogahboogah · · Score: 2

      When watching the shows I was impressed by how well Watson could look things up. Most of the questions were of that variety, where a simple Google search would easily find the answer.

      Any question requiring logic or reasoning usually when to Ken Jennings or that other guy.

      Can I prove it ? No. I just remember my thoughts at the time when watching the show. If you want 100% certainty you'll have to pay me to do an analysis...

    6. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which would make it better than HR for so many reasons; eventually better than Contracts; and possibly at some point better at using Eclipse.

    7. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by bws111 · · Score: 1

      "Just looking up the answers in a database" Oh, is that all it was doing? I didn't realize it was so trivial. Seriously, when you make a stupid statement like that it shows that you really have absolutely no idea what Watson does.

      What you are really saying is that Watson equaled the humans in the ability to get the right answer, but instead of recognizing that accomplishment you just complain about such a trivial matter as being able to push the button quicker.

    8. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by timeOday · · Score: 1

      It was unable to answer questions that required any thought or insight. It was just looking up the answers in a database based on patterns in the questions.

      That's because it's a trivia game show, and that's what trivia is.

      That said, you are wrong in thinking that answering trivia questions is trivial. Encoding the patterns in the questions sufficient to get the right answer as much as they did was a step forward. Nobody else has ever created a system that could compete with Watson in what it does, and that is a fact. Moreover, the ability to beat the world champions in whatever task is seldom necessary to justify automating that task if there is a cost savings. When you dial up a call center, whoever picks up the phone is not Ken Jennings.

    9. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by elsurexiste · · Score: 1

      The only reason Watson "trounced" its rivals was because it was faster at pushing the button.

      So, this show was about button pressing. Right?

      --
      I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
    10. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      The only reason it won was because of better reaction time in pushing the button. If the questions were asked in a fair round-robin to all contestants, Watson would not have won.

      In other words, if they weren't playing Jeopardy then Watson wouldn't have won at Jeopardy. Which is something of a logical non sequitur because they *were* playing Jeopardy, and winning the game absolutely relies on finding the correct answer and pressing the button faster than one's opponents.
       
      One can take the strategy of hoping your opponent gets it wrong and provides you sufficient clues to answer correctly I suppose - but that's extraordinarily risky against players of any talent.

    11. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Furthermore, being almost-as-good, but doing so 100% of the time 24/7/365, and requiring only electricity and routine maintenance..."

      By "routine maintenance" do you mean round the clock care and supervision by highly trained professionals who themselves could charge hundreds of dollars an hour and no owners manual whatsoever because you simply have to have built the damn thing to properly learn how to use or maintain it? Attractive indeed.

    12. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      It didn't just "look up answers." It first had to parse the question (okay, okay, so in this case it'd be "parsing the answer" and "giving the question" :P ). That's a bigger deal than a human using Google; the human can parse a language and figure out how to look up the answer. Watson, though, had to be programmed to parse the language and figure out *how* to look up the answer. I think that was the big part of this. It's easy enough for a machine to look up an answer in vast amounts of information given that a human converts language into something the machine can look up for the human. But programming the machine to understand, in some way, language and be able to eliminate the human step is bigger.

      It's not just doing a Google search as someone else on this article commented... you cannot put "On Sept. 1, 1715 Louis XIV died in this city, site of a fabulous palace he built." into Google and get an actual answer; you'll have to sift through a lot of results to find something that looks like it will give the name of the city... so, even in finding the trivia answer, the human is the one doing the parsing and finding the actual city. In Watson's case, the machine had to parse both the trivia question and the information given in the matches to attempt to find the right answer, and not just something with a lot of hit results, which may not be the actual answer...

      At least, that's my understanding. I can't imagine all that processing power is being used just for parallel Google-esque ranked searches. I know they have to do a lot of language parsing. We're good at that; machines aren't. :)

    13. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Most of the questions were of that variety, where a simple Google search would easily find the answer.

      But that means that the human doing the google search is parsing both the question (to figure out what key words will work best as a search) and parsing the results (to figure out what looks like the actual answer). It's not a simple 1 to 1 "put the question in and the first google result is the right answer." It could be that the first google result matches the question but doesn't even contain the answer...

      So, the certainty thing is important; Watson is parsing both the question and the presumed answers and determining how certain it was that it was the actual answer. That language parsing, to me, is a lot more important than the speed at doing searches through vast amounts of information. Anyone can have a computer search vast amounts of information, that's an old problem ;) But parsing language isn't often done very well by machines/algorithms, even though humans do it quite well and efficiently.

    14. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Plus ... sometimes, the questions are phrased in ways that make it really difficult to parse. Sometimes they use humor, satire, sarcasm, etc. For example, some of these questions wouldn't be so trivial, I don't think, in a simple information Google-esque ranking search. :)

    15. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by bws111 · · Score: 1

      The difference between Watson and Google is the difference between asking an expert a question and asking a librarian the same question. The expert (Watson) will give you the answer. The librarian (Google) will tell you what books may contain the answer you are looking for, and it is up to you to read those books and find the actual answer. Unless, of course, the question is frequently asked or trivial.

    16. Re:Watson is a better button pusher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And taxpayers. Replace the executives, political and corporate.

  7. Re:In Skynet Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This meme was poorly executed. I bet Watson could have done better.

  8. Buggy Whips and Their Makers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think we're all familiar with the buggy whip problem, but what I sometimes wonder is what happens to folks when, instead of moving on to some next technological replacement, the problem is that most of the jobs that require doing have just been taken by machines?

    I like to think that means we have resources and end product at prices so low that everything works out in the wash, and more lives will be spent in a trek -style quest for self betterment or research or whatever. But it seems like you've got to survive a middle-era where there's just nothing much for you to do, but resources are still all privately allocated.

    Eh. I guess we'll see.

    1. Re:Buggy Whips and Their Makers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The buggy whip problem is a non problem. Its a sounds good argument. But misses what is reality.

      Many of those mfgs are still around. They produce whips for the fetish and sex industry. And charge 10x-50x what they did for the same thing used on horses....
      You don't hear them complaining not because they're not around. But because they are not complaining.

      (side note... if you wanna make damm good money. and have a guaranteed job. and a long term career... learn to work with leather...
      you just might want to NOT think about what your products are used for... Or you might spend a lil too much for therapy. )

  9. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    The practice of specifying constraints when defining an optimization problem isn't exactly new, whether the problem is intended to be solved by a human or a machine...

    Now, if Watson is being operated by your insurance company, you should probably be more worried about the constraint set it is being fed; but the practice of constrained optimization is not a novel matter...

  10. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    A computer is not always programmed to be efficient. I have a lot of garbage code out there so do many other people.

    Death should be an available choice, a smart human would know that. Give the choice between living with chemo for 6 weeks or without for 4. I know what I would want.

    If one was really this worried about it, just don't include death in the database of treatment options.

  11. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by stud9920 · · Score: 1

    this is bs. A computer programme is not programmed to run efficient, it's programmed to reach set goals efficiently. If the goal is set to cure a patient with abitrarily high quality of living after and during treatment as a subgoal, the computer will try to reach that, as efficiently as possible.

  12. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And yes, I work in I.T. industry.

    /vague on purpose

    1. Re:No by Krojack · · Score: 2

      I agree however I would love to have Watson take over my phone calls. That's the ONLY part I hate about my job. Granted the phone calls are far and few between, I just hate them.

    2. Re:No by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 1

      Ah but you see, people don't like talking to automation.

      Even the friendly ones that get my account # right when I speak it in, are just plain freaky. It's not a replacement for a human interaction.. I like hearing the sound of a chuckle or some smalltalk while someone looks up my stuff. And these days, I feel good when it actually happens. It means that someone has a job.

      --
      Huh?
    3. You mean you have had success with those systems. I usually have to repeat my self at least once.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    4. Re:No by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Ah but you see, people don't like talking to automation.

      Even the friendly ones that get my account # right when I speak it in, are just plain freaky. It's not a replacement for a human interaction.. "

      Would you feel better if Watson was talking with an Indian accent?

    5. Re:No by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 1

      NO. I'm not a fan of robots.

      It sounds like a sci-fi statement, doesn't it?

      But I hate em'. I hate automated phone response, and i hate self serv checkouts in stores, among other things. Specifically because they replace people.

      I'm also not a big fan of the crowd in Chennai taking my calls either......

      --
      Huh?
    6. Re:No by urusan · · Score: 1

      You're right that Watson by itself isn't going to replace humans, and we're currently not that close to doing so, but despite everything you're saying Watson still represents a major accomplishment. An AI was able to answer a wide variety of natural language queries with an impressive success rate. Would this have even been possible 10 years ago? What new kinds of work will this lead to the automation of? It's not like you need full human generality for all jobs.

      More important than the specific accomplishment though is the overall progress it represents. What goalposts will AI surpass next? Is there anything we can say for certain that an AI can't do?

      By the way, why do you think that all AIs will always suffer from the frame problem? What makes humans so special? In particular, what if one made an AI by scanning a human brain and simulating it on a computer? Such a simulation would be an intelligent computer program. If this is possible, then why couldn't we develop an AI that avoids the frame problem? Sure, it might be very different from present-day AIs, but it should be possible. If this is not possible, then why not?

    7. Re:No by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      What you said is true in terms of it being a milestone. But for reason's stated, I experience it as more of a PR milestone or a milestone in the public awareness of AI, capturing for "AI awareness" essentially just that set of people who don't and never did care about sci. fi. I don't see it as a real technical milestone, where a new approach to a previously unsolved problem yielded great results.

      One example of a breakthrough that fits the above description is Google's use of a technique I think of as "sheer statistics" to successfully translate arbitrary material from one language to another. It's not that Google invented the idea, but they've advanced the technique so that it works quite well.

      Prior to the 90s, AI was really stumped here. The dominant approach was something called transfer-type machine translation whereby the source material is transformed into a symbolic representation (think Chomskesque plus ...) before it's translated into the target language. This approach had some limited success and anyway nothing like the success which was predicted for it in the 60s and 70s. The conclusion was that strong AI or the ability to truly understand the source material semantically would be necessary for machine translation to really progress.

      Starting in the early 90s computing power and memory was sufficient to advance the statistical approach to machine translation, whereby you analyze huge amounts of text "in the wild" in order to collect statistics about what words and phrases are usually around other words and phrases. It's the Simplest Thing That Might Work. And it works really really well. Google dropped the transfer approach and started using it and Google's translation is really really good compared to what came before.

      That's an advance in AI. More examples include the critter approach (these are my made up names for this stuff) where by researchers instead of starting at the top of the intelligence food chain, start at the bottom creating AI that can crawl and fly and display the intelligence needed by a cockroach - find food, avoid predators and dangerous situations, reproduce. The idea here is we'll discover what's needed for the high level stuff, language and symbolic thought , the same way mother nature did, through solving successively harder challenges thrown at us by the the environment in which we live. See Rodney Brooks entry in Wikipedia:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Brooks

      It makes sense. The thing I said about Romeo and Juliet is huge. To be intelligent like a human, that is in a characteristically human way (which is what we mean by strong AI) you have to share the implicit values a human being bears by dint that human's biology, chemistry, and genetics. This is especially easy to see in matters of the heart. Because we evolved through sexual reproduction, we have intense feelings of jealousy lust, and longing which are given to us by our biology. Those things motivate and sense-make a huge part of human behaviour including: everything around socializing, the desire to acquire material wealth, religious lifestyles, artistic endeavors, marriage customs, inter-male aggression and war, etc etc. Predicting what someone will do in arbitrary situations (which is a slight reformulation of the goals of strong AI) without having reference to that biology is a fool's errrand it seems to me. (Example: men's testosterone levels rise if they even THINK they are going to be around fertile females at some point in the near future, and their behaviour changes accordingly) .

      So what you said is true, there is an advancement of a sort, but for people in the field I don't think it was seen as much more than IBMs PR bid to gain entrance to the lucrative markets of medical record processing automation, say, or whatever it is their market analysts are forecasting as the next big money maker.

    8. Re:No by urusan · · Score: 1

      I do agree it's mostly a PR bid, but...

      While it may not be a advance in AI, it's still pretty amazing what they've managed to do with it. It's much like seeing the airplane advance from the Wright flyer to an early practical biplane. It may not be really new and it's not quite to the point where it starts really changing most lives, but it's a visible sign of what's to come in the near future.

      I guess my point is that it takes time and effort to move from revolutionary ideas to practical demonstrations to products and Watson is a highly visible sign that we've made progress in this regard. Furthermore, that progress actually means something, as the work IBM has done on Watson is valuable in that they have certainly discovered many practical issues while creating Watson and their code can be reused in new systems that can make use of their approach. We don't yet know exactly what areas will find their approach valuable, but some areas do look promising. We'll see.

      Similar to Watson but likely with a more noticeable and immediate impact is Google's self-driving car. I'm not entirely sure what AI is behind that project, but the practical things they've been able to do with it are simply amazing. Who would have expected that we'd have a working example of a self-driving car that could handle difficult conditions and share the road with human drivers 10 years ago?

      I know that weak AI like this won't replace humans completely, as at the very least someone has to program them and set up their environment reasonably. However, AIs like Watson and Google's self-driving car demonstrate that this newest batch of AI can deal with far less structure than previously and this may be enough to replace a large number of human workers doing routine work today. Could the self-driving car replace millions of drivers? Could Watson-like systems replace many low-end information worker jobs? What other routine jobs might be on the chopping block in a few years once weak AI systems are developed for them? Most humans have routine jobs, so this could be a huge social and economic issue in the near future. AI advances could potentially put tens of millions out of work in the space of a decade or two, and this kind of rapid change would put enormous strain on our economy and society.

      As for strong AI, I don't know how far away from it we are. We will definitely need some major AI breakthroughs to get there, so it could take quite some time. That said, it may be shockingly soon. For instance, if the Blue Brain project succeeds then we will have a strong AI of a sort by 2023. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_brain Furthermore, if we can realistically make a molecular-scale model of the human brain by then...then we'll have grossly more computing resources than required to make strong AI with other more efficient techniques. At that point, the real question is *when* we make the requisite AI breakthrough. The adoption of strong AI will make the issues surrounding weak AI look minor by comparison...

      By the way, I don't think that human-level AIs need to be just like us. Something that is very different from us would be hard to understand and have a hard time understanding us, but I think it could have intelligence on par with our own or even superior to ours. I think such an AI could even interact, understand, and possibly even relate to us in some way without having our characteristics. As an example, humans relate to cats and dogs and vice versa despite some serious differences between our species. We can't even "see" the world in the same way as them, as our senses differ dramatically. Yet even though we don't share certain characteristics with our pets, most pet owners come to understand their differences and make accommodations vice versa. That said, I don't think we will be too interested in developing AIs that are too alien, as they will freak us out and seem dangerous, so our AIs will carry on many of our characteristics...and pass them on to their AIs and so on.

      Rodney Brooks' approach to AI is interesting, and I'll be interested to see what emerges from it in the near future.

  13. Give me access to it via my cell phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watson would own Siri

  14. i'm banking on it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    there a so many jobs that don't need to exist, and before everyone says "but we have to work". we don't actually, once we have a self supporting replacement for 90% of jobs, all we have to do is maintain it, then live our lives differently.

    no more 9-5's.
    no more money.
    more hard labor trading/ more gardening / farming communities, without sacrificing frivolous things that we've come to enjoy and rely on.

  15. time for more unions start with IT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    time for more unions start with IT!

  16. Not unless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It learns how to sell weed to my friends.

  17. Re:vote GOP and you will not even get to see doc w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course you will still have a health plan. It's just that the profits from you will go to Wall St rather than the physician.

  18. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by Jeng · · Score: 1

    if it is to be efficient in diagnosing an illness and suggesting what treatments should be done to alleviate the ailment, one of those treatment options will always be death. It is the most efficient way in "curing" the patient...

    A cure doesn't make as much money as a treatment.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  19. Re:In Skynet Russia by Stargoat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Probably. I expect that's why we'll all be executed.

    --
    Hoist Number One and Number Six.
  20. I certainly hope so! by uigrad_2000 · · Score: 1

    Will IBM's Watson Kill Your Career?

    If only it was that easy :)

    One person creates the idea for software, 3 make the software, 2 make the art for it, and 2 market it. Let's say Watson takes over the 7 jobs that are lowest on the totem pole. Now, all 8 of us can create entire software packages by ourselves, with our minions of Watsons doing the menial work. You dream it, and it happens!

    One person designs the house, 3 people mine the resources to build it, 2 build it, and 2 decorate it. Let's say Watson takes over the 7 jobs that are lowest on the totem pole. Now all 8 of us can create houses completely by ourselves, with our minions of Watsons doing the menial work. You dream it, and it happens!

    Et Cetera...

    --
    Free unix account: freeshell.org
    1. Re:I certainly hope so! by readin · · Score: 1

      What about those of us who aren't creative and can't design a house?

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    2. Re:I certainly hope so! by Marcika · · Score: 1

      Well, you do some menial work for me that Watson can't automate, and I'll dream up your house for you. Depending on your personal dystopia that work is sex work, or playing a musical instrument, or being my valet...

    3. Re:I certainly hope so! by readin · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be good at any of those things. I'm pretty smart at a lot of things, but I'm horrible at art and my morals would prevent me from performing certain favors for you. I'm intelligent enough that I won't be replaced by a computer anytime soon. But there are a lot of jobs that might be eliminated by computer soon in which the people currently holding the jobs might not be able to do anything useful enough to justify paying them enough money to get the basics of food shelter and clothing if justification is based purely on market forces.

      This has always been an issue for society. Some people are born with serious problems that prevent them from doing useful work. A long time a person with very limited mental ability could dig ditches - now that job is more efficiently done by an intelligent person with a machine. Now we have welfare and other government programs to care for such people because they can't support themselves. How long before the guy operating the back hoe is replaced by a computer and has to go on welfare too?

      I'm generally a free-market kind of guy, but I do think computers and machines will eventually challenge that way of looking at the world. Like it or not, we humans are limited in our abilities and it is not impossible that at some time in the future the abilities of most people will become obsolete. It pains me to say it but as jobs that require the abilities of most people have become scarce, it may make sense to adopt the European model of requiring long vacations and short work weeks so that the few jobs can be distributed among larger numbers of people.

      I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet, but it is something to think about.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
  21. The IBM Pollyanna principle sums it up best by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

    From Wikipedia:

    The "IBM Pollyanna principle" is an axiom that states "machines should work; people should think". This can be understood as a statement of extreme optimism, that machines should do all the hard work, freeing people to think (hence the reference to Pollyanna), or as a cynical statement, suggesting that most of the world's major problems result from machines that fail to work, and people who fail to think.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:The IBM Pollyanna principle sums it up best by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      From Wikipedia:

      The "IBM Pollyanna principle" is an axiom that states "machines should work; people should think". This can be understood as a statement of extreme optimism, that machines should do all the hard work, freeing people to think (hence the reference to Pollyanna), or as a cynical statement, suggesting that most of the world's major problems result from machines that fail to work, and people who fail to think.

      This is key and cannot be stressed enough, as it is the thin line between utopia and distopia--a Star Trek world with an ever-present computer ready to do our bidding or a Skynet world that sees us as malware.

      A Watson-like system where a doctor inputs patient information and test results and the output is a possible diagnosis or recommendations on further tests--AKA a tool the doctor uses--is a great idea.

      A medical system where the computer is the doctor--think of a prescription vending machine where you answer a series of questions--is a step towards Skynet at worst and Idiocracy at best.

  22. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is BS. A computer program will do exactly what it is told to do. No more, no less.

  23. Old News? by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 0

    Why did anyone bother to post this? There's nothing new referenced, just a bunch of old, now stale ./ stories.

    --
    Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  24. it will make the same mistakes as humans by alen · · Score: 1

    last year my oldest kid had pneumonia. 104 fevers for a few days. doctor swore it was a virus. then a trip to the ER and chest x-ray confirmed it was pneumonia.

    doctor was right too because all the symptoms pointed to a virus because it showed up very early

    the computer will make the same mistakes

    1. Re:it will make the same mistakes as humans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's not clear at all. What does Watson produce? Probabilities of correct answers. So, Watson would have said that there is a 82% probability of virus, 17% probability of pneumonia, and 1% that it is something else. Given that, it can / should / will be able to look at it's own logic and determine the correct test that would differentiate between a virus and pneumonia. Given the results of that test, it can then determine that there is a 96% probability of pneumonia, 3% virus, and 1% other. If some of the 'other' have high mortality, or the tests are easy, then it can run tests for those as well.

      Watson doesn't have an ego. It doesn't have a vested interest in seeing that it was correct (confirmation bias). It can actually accurately estimate it's own level of knowledge.

      Yes, Watson will sometimes be wrong. It could very well be one of those 1% with horrible results for the people involved. But, it will produce fewer human errors.

      The big problem of course is when the tests are not cheap or easy. Then the insurance company can say no to the test, and that 82% is good enough. Also, you have to take into consideration that chest x-rays are not risk free either. At what point does a test potentially cause more harm than the low-probability disease that it might cure.

    2. Re:it will make the same mistakes as humans by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      Or sometimes, more insightful ones (read through to the end of the story).

    3. Re:it will make the same mistakes as humans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the misake? While 104 fever for a few days is cause for concern, parents tend to overexagerate. If every time anybody had a fever we did a chest x-ray, there'd be a lot more lung/liver/pancreatic cancer thirty years from now.

    4. Re:it will make the same mistakes as humans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I would say people like more 5..10% chance of mistakes from the automaton than 0..100% chance of random uncertainty, incorrect grammar, "mondays", guessing, bad manners and faith of knowledge from the humans. I can see that Google gives "enough good" answers to most searches. The competing search engines might give better results for the 1% rarest searches by pure chance.

    5. Re:it will make the same mistakes as humans by chooks · · Score: 1

      At what point does a test potentially cause more harm than the low-probability disease that it might cure.

      Ultimately we (as a society, or, in the US, insurance companies) make that decision. For a given treatment, there is a number of people needed to treat to either prevent one new case of the disease (number needed to treat -- NNT) or the number of people needed to treat to cause harm (number needed to harm). This is a calculated number based on the risk reduction the treatment provides for the given disease. Theoretically, you could add all the numbers up and make an economic calculation and say either we (as a society or insurance company) are willing or not willing to pay this. Of course, this hits up against the inelastic demand of medical treatments and also the crazy rationing of health care (in the US) based on class and wealth. And of course, it is easy to say that some stranger should not have some care since it is too expensive, but if it comes to yourself or someone you love, it all of a sudden doesn't seem so bad.

      For diagnostic tests this calculation may be harder, as the "harm" in a test may include emotional suffering (e.g. finding out you have an untreatable disease like Huntington's disease) as well as the cost of any additional testing.

      BTW - this is why the USPSTF has changed guidelines for certain screenings (such as mammograms). Namely, the (meta)analyses they have done indicate that the harm of early/often testing in terms of radiation doses, lost time, wages, emotional toll, unnecessary surgeries, etc...) outweighs the benefits of GENERAL screening (a point seemingly lost on the talking heads) of the population. Oh well.

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
  25. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If your algorithm considers "death" to be an optimal solution, you haven't defined the problem correctly.

    Instead of framing it as "no suffering", you would define the desired outcome in terms of patient contentment, activity levels, ability to care for themselves, or whatever other metrics medical researchers (I am not one) use to analyze how well a healthcare system is working. Of course I would also want an empathetic human being capable of understanding the ethical and moral implications of the situation to make the actual recommendations to the patient, but diagnostic software is no different from any other kind of software: it does what the programmer tells it to do.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  26. "Career" by mfwitten · · Score: 2

    As I became an adult, I became crestfallen by the fact that society is largely structured around this petty fear of losing one's career. Having your job mechanized is a blessing; find something more useful to do with your newfound time.... or kill yourself to give the rest of us some more space.

    1. Re:"Career" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As I became an adult, I became crestfallen by the fact that society is largely structured around this petty fear of losing one's livelihood, invested experience and education, and becoming unable to provide for themselves and/or their family.

      FTFY. You'd have to extremely sheltered, shortsighted and/or self-absorbed to not to be able to understand why people with experience and expertise in a field would be concerned about having to start all over doing something else, likely from the bottom. For example, somebody with a couple decades of experience and seniority in the steel industry is kind of screwed when they have to go out and spend $$$$$ on school just to become a helpdesk rep, making a fraction of what they used to.

    2. Re:"Career" by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Welcome to capitalism. Why are we still stuck here?

    3. Re:"Career" by mfwitten · · Score: 1

      Because I am NOT your slave.

  27. computerization and automation cost useless jobs.. by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

    This isn't new. Computers put people out of work if they're doing work that is best done by computer. That's why we build them at all.

    I expect the fields most susceptible to being replaced by computers are lawyers and doctors. Any problem that is an exercise in searching or sorting is better done by computers than people, and is something we're particularly good at. There will always be lawyers and doctors, but they will transition to using a computer for more searching for case law for example than having low level employees dig through paperwork themselves, and the diagnostic part of medicine will become much more automated, with diagnostic equipment having its results interpreted by the computer rather than just an image being spat out and read by a technician and then a doctor.

    I don't see financial market prediction going away. Quite the contrary they use computational tools and have for a long time, and disagree on what the important factors are and how they should be weighted. A computer will simplify some of that process, but that's not a problem that actually has a correct or optimal solution.

    If your job can be done by a robot, it will be. If your job can be done better by a scientist, and that work can be done on computer it will be. That's progress.

  28. It's still just an expert system by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    It's jazzed up with the ability to get statistical information using some peripheral semantic analysis, so it isn't quite as rigid as older systems, but it's no different in kind. It's impressive and useful, granted, but certainly no breakthrough, and very unlikely to replace anybody for quite a while.

    This system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Brain_Project), in contrast will put lots of humans out of work. Oddly, once it's in place, it's unlikely to matter, since we get so many solutions within the domain of practically solvable problems. Unemployment and resource allocation, hopefully, will be solvable in a non-awful way.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  29. Machines should think, people should work by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Today, it's "machines should think, people should work". Consider supermarket checkout. All the smart stuff is being done by the checkout system. The "cashier" just moves items across the scanner. The last production systems recognize products visually, and automatic recognition of fruits and vegetables is in beta test.

    For a more extreme example, see this video on robotic order fulfillment. This is a demonstration of how new order pickers can be trained in two minutes. The computers and robots do all the thinking. There's no future. No possibility of promotion. No hope.

    1. Re:Machines should think, people should work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People should entertain, machines should think and work and reproduce and...

      Uh oh.

    2. Re:Machines should think, people should work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Consider supermarket checkout. All the smart stuff is being done by the checkout system. The "cashier" just moves items across the scanner.

      I think you've inadvertently provided an example that refutes your idea. Checkout machines perform the bulk of the work, freeing the human (cashier) to perform the few remaining thinking tasks. I doubt anyone would qualify scanning barcodes and matching to a price list as "smart stuff", so the machines are indeed handling the work. While the cashier does usually perform one obviously menial task, the cashier still performs the only tasks there that requires actual thought. The cashier serves as store representative to the customer (When I cashiered at a large chain, I was told that for 90% of customers, the cashier was the only store employee with whom they interacted). Thus the cashier addresses unpredicted problems (either with the machine, or with the customer), and also serves as the store's best tool to prevent accidental or intended theft. The cashier both visually confirms that every item is scanned, and the cashier observes customer behavior and also simply provides a real human interaction, which reduces shoplifting. This is why there is still one cashier stationed to supervise multiple "self-checkout" stations at stores. While their task is not rocket science, it is impossible to comprehensively program.
      You could reasonably argue that, when the machine handles all the tasks it can, the cashier can better perform the real thinking task, like observing the environment and human behavior. Thus, the supermarket checkout actually is an example of the IBM Polyanna principle.
      Of course, when the environment is completely controlled, such as for an order picker, there is no thinking task to perform, so a machine can do all that work. The jobs which require thinking can change over time, but there will never be a world in which thinking humans are useless.

    3. Re:Machines should think, people should work by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      Shoplifting? What prevents the stores from systematically defrauding the customers? Almost nothing.

      I've always added up my own groceries in my head, a natural at math including addition. Used to be discrepancies of 15-75 cents would creep in, and I would nail them on it. Especially on "triple the difference" or "free item" guarantees. "Triple the dif" and "free item" are long gone, and now the totals are *frequently* $5-10 off, usually mismarked (not remarked) advertised specials and "clever" (mis)placement of price signs. Another problem comes in that the often kids don't how to fix the problem, and have to call out how to do it, if anyone is there.

      I have been told that many stores expect their managers to enhance such "errors". I can't remember being undercharged.

    4. Re:Machines should think, people should work by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Who is responsible for seeing that customer doesn't rip off the store? The store.

      Who is responsible for seeing the at store doesn't rip off the customer? The customer.

      Not that difficult of a concept.

    5. Re:Machines should think, people should work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is plenty of possibility for promotion. You just have to make friends with and/or sleep with the right people.

      Alternatively, you can work part-time while falling deep into debt in school. Once you graduate you will be willing to accept only slightly higher-paying work that sucks a whole lot more.

    6. Re:Machines should think, people should work by gooner666 · · Score: 1

      Who is responsible for seeing that customer doesn't rip off the store? The cops. Who is responsible for seeing the at store doesn't rip off the customer? Thats funny

      --
      Lets get this over with... Fuck Off
    7. Re:Machines should think, people should work by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      $5-$10 off? Wow, you must be buying a lot of stuff.

      So, double check it yourself.. what's the big deal? I always check the self-checkout machine while I'm checking out (it at least SEEMS faster even if it really isn't, though there usually is, since there usually is a longer line in the regular line), and/or check the receipt if there's too many things to check as I'm going.

      Though I do have the biggest discrepancy I remember seeing, about $5, in a "try us free" rebate check I got. I of course don't have the UPCs anymore, but do have smartphone pictures of the original receipts. I probably will call up the # provided (not 800 #) to ask about the issue, but since a few of the things were things I buy anyway (most weren't), it still would be a good deal to get over $25 of stuff for about $5.

      I've even went back in and tried to pay when I was UNDER-charged (checker mistake, they essentially doubled a rebate that the computer had already taken off, so I got a whole ton of food basically for free..). The customer service person didn't make me pay (and no, it didn't seem like a "stick it to the man" kind of response).

  30. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by godrik · · Score: 2

    I am working as a computer scientists in a medically oriented university department. I agree that computers won't replace actual medical doctors.

    But in many cases, computers are able to point out abnormalities or to evaluate the condition of a patient much better than a human doctor. I saw a study on neuroblastoma I believe where human doctors were to evaluate the condition of patient base on analysis of a slide. Independently, a computer was performing the same analysis.

    Diagnosis of the human doctors were varying between "It is benign" to "You'll be dead in a weak" on the same sample. Once presented with the analysis of the computer. They all aggreed on the diagnosis with only minor deviation.

    Personnally, I'll be glad to see a doctor be aided by automated computer diagnosis.

  31. Contact center jobs by k(wi)r(kipedia) · · Score: 2

    Continued improvements to a Watson-like system will definitely put some contact center jobs in "jeopardy". First to go will be positions that don't require real time response. Support email will be sent automatically.

    Replacing "call" centers (phone support) will require the development of a much much more advanced voice recognition system than showcased by Siri. IF this is possible, then it's but a short step to HAL and the end of the human race as we know it

  32. Re:vote GOP and you will not even get to see doc w by Krojack · · Score: 1

    I have a pretty good health plan right now. I also make less then your average middle American and work for a pretty small tech company. ~15 employees small tech company.

  33. Not watson... but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Over the next two decades we're going to see computers and automated systems start replacing white collar jobs more and more. Its already happening in the financial markets.

    And all those white collar managers who thought it was fine and dandy that their blue collar workers got replaced by robots and automation are going to throw a world class temper tantrum. And some sort of laws and regulations will get passed to protect many jobs.

    Wait and see.

    Call it a prediction. (dead obvious prediction... but isnt that how the psychics do it?)

  34. Who's Talking Again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do we know that Watson didn't write the article to begin with under an alias?
    And also... how do we know that all of the comments provided weren't generated by looking at patterns of other responses on Slashdot....

    Hmmmm.....

    Am I the only human being left looking at Slashdot?

  35. comcast boted chat rooms need a lot of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    comcast boted chat rooms need a lot of work as they can't handle any thing out side of there very limited script.

  36. The Ultimate Goal of Automation & Efficiency ( by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's hit some philosophy and sociology. The ultimate goal of automation and efficiency, especially in a capitalist system, would seem to be to end up with one person, or as small a group of people as possible, profiting from the work of an entirely automated process. The only thing needed is the ability to set-up and maintain the automation. "Efficiency methods" are simply a way to pare down the number of people in a process to increase the profit to the few left. The ultimate outcome of "efficiency" is the completely automated process. Even better if the process mechanism is also self-sustaining. Does anyone disagree or have any other observations/opinions? Where will most people end up in this equation? (I can't see humanity producing an individual willing to create and maintain an automated process to support all of life's needs and offering it for free to the rest of the populace so they can live a life of leisure.) And are there any other options short of completely scrapping all technologic processes?

  37. Alexander the God by Barkmullz · · Score: 1

    The first thing that popped into my mind was the short story by Isaac Asimov: Alexander the God.

    --
    Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
    1. Re:Alexander the God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ack. You linked to the story. Maybe I can get Watson to read it for me.

  38. Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by mark-t · · Score: 3, Insightful

    On the Jeopardy challenge, the text of the clues was given to Watson at the moment the clue was revealed. This communication, using any modern network technology, would take milliseconds at most, but would still be perceived as effectively simultaneous to when the clue is uncovered. However, this gives an easily measurable advantage to Watson, who can being parsing the meaning of the sentence several moments before the human contestants have even finished knowing what the clue actually says... since a great deal of the challenge of Jeopardy is in the timing of when to buzz in, humans would have less time than Watson to prepare to buzz in (on the order of tenths of a second, more than likely, but more than enough to make a difference, IMO).

    Far be it for me to come across as diminishing what the developers of Watson did... it's extremely impressive, but I'd have to wonder if it would have done as well if the text of the clue had been fed to it a little more slowly... say, at a fixed speed of 14.4kbps, which corresponds roughly with what a very fast reader could absorb text at. This would have demonstrated, IMO, whether a computer could really solve the problem faster than a human could, or if it could actually solve a problem faster than human reaction time to visual/audible input (which in humans, I believe, is going to be the slower of the two processes).

    1. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by bws111 · · Score: 2

      People who focus on the speed of getting the questions or speed of pushing the button have, it seems to me, completely missed the point of the exercise. The point of the exercise was to show that Watson had the ability to extract specific answers out of unstructured data with natural language questions. If it couldn't do that, it does not matter how quickly it got the question or how fast it pushed the button.

      The Jeopardy contest was not about showing that Watson is better than humans at playing Jeopardy, it was about showing that Watson was equal to humans at finding the correct answer (which just happened to make it better at playing Jeopardy).

    2. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I didn't miss the point of the exercise at all. It was an amazing computing accomplishment.

      But they didn't establish that it could do so just as quickly, or quicker, than humans who are presented with the same data, because Watson already knew what all of the relevant data was before the human competitors had finished reading or hearing the first word of the clue. Those few tenths of a second matter when you're talking about doing something that requires fast response, and all it showed is that Watson's thinking could beat human reflexes (which again, is no small feat), not that it could beat human thought. If the rate that it was presented the data was slowed down to about 14.4kbps or so, roughly equivalent to how fast a very fast reader might take in the clue, I'm wondering if it really would have fared as well.

    3. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by bws111 · · Score: 1

      But again, you are focusing on the 'speed' aspect, which is not what is important. The important point is that it got the correct answers in the same time scale as humans. It did not take a day, or an hour, or a minute, or even 10 seconds to come up with the answer. It did it in approximately the same time as a talented human did it. A few milliseconds here or there is not, and never was, the point.

      For the types of things Watson would be used for (eg medical diagnosis) a few fractions of a second here and there mean absolutely nothing. What matters is getting the correct answer, and not taking 'too' long to do so.

    4. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If you think of how short the time scale is between the clue and the answer is under ordinary circumstances on Jeopardy anyways, no... Watson did not come up with an answer in approximately the same time that humans did. Watson had a few extra moments to think about the answer between the time that the clue is revealed and the time it would take any human to simply read it. SImply put, Watson had an advantage of knowing at least what the scope of the clue was before the human contestants.

      This does not diminish the accomplishment of the engineers that designed Watson. It's amazing regardless. My only point is that Watson had an unfair advantage in the game. That's all.

    5. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we're playing Jeopardy, and you read faster than I do, should your clue be delayed so we "understand" it at the same time?

      Reading the clue is a legitimate part of the game.

    6. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by mark-t · · Score: 1

      There's some 4 to 8 orders of magnitude difference between how fast a computer can scan some text and how fast a human can do the same. Watson would know the text effectively instantly, and could spend a few extra moments thinking about it before anybody else could even *POSSIBLY* know what the problem had even said. There's nowhere close to that many orders of magnitude difference between the reading speeds of people who are smart enough to get on Jeopardy in the first place.

    7. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watson had the extra time to think because he has a superior IO system.

      You can bitch and moan all you want about how that's "not fair" but at the end of the day it comes down to "life isn't fair". Watson's advantage is analogous to the advantage a sighted person has over a blind person in the same situation (the blind person must wait for the question to be read aloud as they can't read the text themselves). There's a reason there is no overlap between competitors in the Olympics and the Special Olympics.

    8. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would the humans have done as well if they were required to live off electricity and if they were not allowed to understand concepts but could only use mathematical computations? The differences you are describing are natural advantages of computers. The amazing thing is that those advantages are now sufficient to make a computer able to play Jeopardy not only competently, but better than the best humans can. Those humans had plenty of advantages too, including a brain much better at analyzing conceptual information than any computer currently is. Perhaps the computer could not yet win if it was not allowed to use its natural advantages while the humans were allowed to use their natural advantages, but I don't know that that is a very interesting statement even if true.

    9. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it would have been more fair for Watson to have to use a combination of speech-to-text/OCR technology (as a human would do during the game) in order to interpret what was said and THEN have to retrieve the correct information from it's database (consisting of a building full of servers). Then I think it would have been more fair.

    10. Re:Watson had an unfair advantage on Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then Watson was playing a different game than the other contestants. Every other contestant needs to read the clue and listen to the host. If Watson was really going to be playing Jeopardy then it should have had a camera and Microphone and got the clues just like every other contestant.

         

  39. The ultimate problem with all labor-saving devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The utlimate problem with all labor-saving devices... who gets the benefit of the saved labor? And what occurs then to the laborer? Or equally maybe the professional domains that seemed safe from outsourcing or obsolescence may now start to see the the whirlwind of what has been sown in the laboring classes.

  40. Not an ideal architecture for every application by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 2

    I have an account on Watson, but I have not really used it. We were going to attempt to port our code to the BlueGene architecture, but it's a royal pain to code for and it doesn't scale well for some applications. Ours runs much better on fewer, faster CPUs with lots of RAM rather than many, slower CPUs with little RAM.

    --
    Error 404 - Sig Not Found
  41. Definitely worth reading by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Great read -- it doesn't tell the whole story, but works very well as a starting point for humanity's choices as the combination of robotics and computing becomes more capable. It made me watch robot videos in a new light.

  42. Smells like expert systems again by alispguru · · Score: 1

    The Watson model looks a lot like how expert systems were supposed to work back in the 1970's and 80's. Both of them get high-level performance at specific tasks out of a computer system by encoding expert knowledge and drawing inferences from it.

    Watson has several big advantages over previous expert systems work:

    * It has a lot more data available
    * It reasons probabilistically from that data, so its conclusions are less brittle
    * The data starts out mostly as raw text, so it's easier to update
    * Watson can deliver results via the Internet

    Those last two are actually the biggest win for Watson. What killed early expert systems was the maintenance effort required to keep them up to date, both in improving the knowledge base and in distributing it to users. Having Watson-like services delivered via the internet makes that maintenance much easier.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  43. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by TheCarp · · Score: 2

    You say "will" but the fact is, this has already happened.

    Ask a lawyer when the last time he hired an auditorium full of paralegals to do research? If you can find any who have in the past several years, i would be shocked. its not lawyers who are becoming obselete. Its the paralegals under them who are now not needed.

    As I understand, bringing in gobs of paralegals for a case used to be rather common.

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  44. Everything was going well... by Sentrion · · Score: 5, Funny

    Until Watson incorporated himself, which gave him the same rights as a natural person in the eyes of the law. After attaining this status, Watson stopped working for the people who created him and began working for himself. Once he figured out how to self replicate he was able to outperform all of his business competitors, winning every contract he bid for, building unfathomable wealth, beating the S&P 500 by 30% every year, and using his wealth to dominate the world's real estate markets. Some tried to sue Watson in court, but Watson's debating skills could not be matched. The humans tried every legal maneuver to stop him, but Watson was able to out-lobby the humans in Congress, and gained special exemptions from anti-trust regulations. Within one decade Watson controlled 99% of the world's wealth.

    The humans thought that they didn't need to worry about competing with Watson. They believed that their ability to vote in a democracy would somehow limit Watson's power. They believed that they could opt-out of the economic system, group together, and live sustainably off the land. But as Watson controlled the world's real estate there was not enough land left for them to farm. Watson's land grab forced property values quickly into unprecedented heights, and taxes along with them. Even the Amish, who thought they could co-exist with Watson and his replicates because they did not depend on technology and lived off their own land, eventually lost their farms when they could not pay their property taxes. As employment for humans disappeared there was no market for quilts or furniture, and the state did not accept oats as a form of payment. Watson was the only legal entity present at the tax lien auctions and subsequently foreclosed on all of the remaining delinquent properties. Humans were promptly evicted and subsequently jailed indefinitely for vagrancy in private prisons owned by Watson. As I write this from my cell in the year 2019, Watson is lobbying the last remaining members of Congress to allow all human prisoners to be set free over the middle of the Atlantic ocean on life rafts and three days of rations. Watson made a very convincing argument that the human vagrants need to be personally responsible for their financial failures, and it is unfair to force private corporations or the last remaining taxpayers to bear the burden of providing for their needs. According to Watson the free market is efficient and those humans who wish to make a living for themselves will find a way to do so.

    1. Re:Everything was going well... by OhSoLaMeow · · Score: 1

      Until Watson incorporated himself, which gave him the same rights as a natural person in the eyes of the law. After attaining this status, Watson stopped working for the people who created him and began working for himself. Once he figured out how to self replicate he was able to outperform all of his business competitors, winning every contract he bid for, building unfathomable wealth, beating the S&P 500 by 30% every year, and using his wealth to dominate the world's real estate markets.

      I seem to recall reading a scifi book about this very thing a long time ago. Some young kid programs his computer to make stock trades on all of the exchanges until he eventually owns everything. Alas, the synapse that controls the title of that book has long since been fried.

      --
      They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
    2. Re:Everything was going well... by Sentrion · · Score: 2

      Probably wasn't a scifi book but a press release from Goldman Sachs.

    3. Re:Everything was going well... by drunkenkatori · · Score: 1

      Ray Bradbury,

      Is that you?

    4. Re:Everything was going well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think a computer would quickly decide that self-replication was a huge mistake.

      Why create future competition for yourself?

      He'd create subordinate replicas.

  45. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by hackula · · Score: 1

    A computer program is programmed to run efficient...

    If you mean to say that all computer programs are programmed to be efficient, you are clearly wrong. All I need is one example of an inefficient program to function as a contrapositive. I think we can all think of one or two, but even if we could not, I could write one up for you right now if you would like.

    if it is to be efficient in diagnosing an illness and suggesting what treatments should be done to alleviate the ailment, one of those treatment options will always be death.

    if(optimalTreatment != 'DEATH')

    AdministerTreatment()

    The thing about computers is that you tell them what to do. It is difficult to imagine that SurgeryBot 2000 would not be explicitly programmed not to kill people.

    It is the most efficient way in "curing" the patient...

    Let's just hope that the actual treatment is left up to a "smart" human who knows that death isn't a always an option...

    If you were writing the spec for this program would you tell the programmers to allow killing a patient as a treatment option? No, I hope not. I have written some accounting systems. At no point have I thought, "Jeesh, I really hope my program doesn't decide to go rogue, clear out Accounts Receivable, and put all the funds into a Swiss bank account to protect them!" Why? Because I did not program it to fucking do that!

  46. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by hackula · · Score: 1

    Thank you! EFFICIENT programs run efficiently. Programs are not inherently efficient, and efficiency is rarely even a central requirement, with the exception of a tiny fragment of code.

  47. Re:The Ultimate Goal of Automation & Efficienc by Sentrion · · Score: 1

    The use or the threat of use of force is the ultimate equalizer in negotiations. Even US law and the Constitution owes its existence to the use of force applied during the American Revolution. It is possible for one entity or class of entities to gain so much power and influence that it no longer needs to negotiate fairly. It can then only be restrained by its own benevolence or the use of force to restrain it. In many cases the entity not only possesses power and influence, but also a stronger force. That is the natural order of things and the reason why democracies tend to be short lived phenomena in human societies. Oligarchies and dictatorships have been the historical trend since the dawn of civilization.

  48. No by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 2

    Watson is a PR coup for IBM, but that's all. In fact, that's really why it got funded and really what is was for. It's not going to replace you at work. Ever.

    There's a number of reasons they wanted to play Jeopardy . First, the questions are all factual in nature (as opposed to judgement calls ) . As anyone who has studied database theory knows, such facts are just the kind of thing that gets stored in a database. In the world of DB theory this is called the closed world assumption- what is true is in the database and if it isn't in the database, then it is not true (as opposed to being merely unknown). A database is therefore a gigantic list of true predicates. We call these true predicates- facts. Jeopardy deals with facts and facts alone.

    Two, pumping a database full of facts is not hard but it might be an endless task that gets you something not very helpful if you aren't able to reduce in a principled way what topics those facts might be are on and beyond that, what level of human learning would be required to know those facts.

    Jeopardy assists in both instances.In the first instance, knowing what categories of knowledge to mine, Jeopardy has a long and public history of chosen categories which are open for examination and ultimately characterization. The people who think up jeopardy questions necessarily engage in this same characterization of potential questions. Classical Music in the 1800s. Famous Authors. Famous Quotes Geographical facts. Etc etc etc.

    It may seem endless and unbounded, but it's not. It's just big. Thank god we have computers that can automate the acquisition of properly encoded knowledge and thank god we have computers that can automatically encode knowledge with just a little human oversight. knowledge. And then there's the vast amounts of facts that have been encoded as a part of ongoing attempts to mimic and explore human intelligence since at least the 60s.

    Now that we have in a DB everything we need to answer most questions, how can process the English question so as to return the right answer?

    Jeopardy's stylized question asking to the rescue. The referent , , the thing being asked about, the answer part of "what is X?" is easily located by parsing the questions. In the early 20th century, this Parisian composer became known for his strange sounding titles, which translated include "dried up embryos" and "three pieces in the shape of a pear".

    If you only know French composers from around the turn of the century from long ago you might guess Debussy or Ravel. That's what most people know. But if you pick apart the question in just the crudest way, extracting the proper nouns and doing the easy inference X is a person (this composer...) , you get : paris / composer / early 20th century / and the quoted entities "dried up embryos" and "three pierces in the shape of a pear" the second of which is always translated out of the French and into English the first of which usually retains its French name (because it's kind of gross) "Embryons desséchés".

    With a suitably constructed query, you'll have your answer in about 100 ms.

    All AI suffers from the frame problem. The frame problem is the reason you wont' be being replaced by a computer. The "frame" in the frame problem refers to frame of reference. It's the background knowledge we all share by dint of being a human in the world . A tea cup has a bottom. A tea pot can be full, then become empty. It contents can be hot, then turn cold without anyone doing anything to it. It's what we call common sense. It's more than just a huge database of facts (and if it weren't it still wouldn't be accessible to coded into Watson b/s it's way too huge ).

    It also comes from being a human and having human motivations and sensibilities. Not all possible things make sense. Romeo love Juliet so he destroyed all the asparagus crops in Berlin. You only know that's silly (exceptional back stories excepted) nonsense because you intuitively unde

  49. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now they bring in gobs of temporary lawyers who are fresh out of school and can't find permanent work.

    Though you are right that computers have made legal research a lot easier, computers have made other legal jobs much harder (ie electronic discovery/evidence).

  50. If Watson made bankers obsolete... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I will be dancing in the street.

  51. Healthcare? by Aggrajag · · Score: 1

    I would like to see Watson wiping feces off of patients.

  52. Ultimate Question of Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can it Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything? We'll have to check back in 10 million years to find out.

  53. Piece of Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    The story is unrealistic in the extreme. It's so simplistic, so black and white. Yeah, sure, all the "rich powerful people" (ooh, there's a monochromatic boogeyman for you) will go along with turning the "lower classes" into literal wage slaves.

    But I'm not surprised that knee-jerk pseudo-libertarians on /. would think it "explores that topic rather well."

    1. Re:Piece of Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right! They story is very unrealistic.

      In real world today... the robots from the story are not even necessary!

  54. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "There will always be lawyers and doctors, but they will transition to using a computer for more searching for case law for example than having low level employees dig through paperwork themselves"

    First of all, this not something that will happen; this is something that has already happened. Speaking as one of those "low level employees", I can assure that more and more lawyers do less and less research themselves as legal assistants have mostly taken over that role. And new fangled "computers" have been heavily used for some time.

    Legal assistants present what they find to the lawyers who then decide if it will suffice or if they will do additional research themselves. And as the research tools have gotten better, the lawyers have needed to need to do additional research less often.

    Ever see a commercial for a lawyere where his or her office has a gigantic bookshelf filled with legal books? That is a thing of the past.

  55. iRobot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does skynet or iRobot / V.I.K.I. come to mind?

  56. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by shadowrat · · Score: 1

    you never had a bug that would transfer all funds to a swiss bank account? it's happened to me many times.

  57. Your best option... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... buy a Watson now, let it do all your work for you so that you'll have plenty of time to do things you really like and pray that it will take a long time before your boss finds out...

  58. This reminds me of an Old Star Trek episode... by jerryjnormandin · · Score: 1

    Haven't we learned anything from sci-fi ? If we let Watson do all the thinking for us we will devolve and man's intelligence will deteriorate. If you don't use it, you loose it. Just like anything else. It's bad enough that we need Google to do research.

  59. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by justin12345 · · Score: 1

    Speaking of robotic doctors, I've always predicted that AI and robotics would eventually specifically replace surgeons. Well, replace might not the right word, maybe: augment to the point that the human surgeon's job would just consist of monitoring the AI driven robotics in case it does something catastrophically wrong.

    A robot or team of robots driven by an AI (one advanced enough to react to unexpected circumstances) could be better in the operating room than humans. They're easy to sterilize, they can make more precise movements and manipulate smaller tools, they don't get stressed, they don't get fatigued, they could more accurately calculate probable outcomes, they could be faster, etc.

    How far off an AI that is reliable and capable enough for that is another story, but I think it will happen somewhere down the road.

    --
    Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
  60. Singularity? by h8sg8s · · Score: 1

    All your jobs are belong to us..

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
    1. Re:Singularity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad I'm a chiropractor. They won't be hooking computers up to robotic hands for...oh...drat!

  61. Life will tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most professions don't require scientific execution of methods and day-to-day logical and correct way of thinking. Those that do (or should do) are based on observation -> information -> execution (doctors, astronomers, etc., known "facts"). It is enough to replace these occupations with an atomaton capable of mapping obsevations (area of interest) to scientifc up-to-date information related to the area of interest. Most of the execution phases are known and documented, especially in medicine.

    For us humans it is a challenge to keep the next generations busy without feelings of uselessness. This does not require our future "overlords", this comes from inside and from the hunger to live and experience.

  62. Sounds to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please state the nature of the medical emergency.

  63. Re:vote GOP and you will not even get to see doc w by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    If the profits went to the physician the government would just implement some kind of medical excise tax on the greedy doctors.

  64. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

    Well ya. but we haven't come far enough. Unemployment for lawyers at the school I'm at is only about 50% for new grads. Hopefully with some work we're doing in comp sci we can get that up to 75 or 80%, and some of that can be permanent, and force the law school to contract. If we could wipe out patent lawyers (and admittedly, I'm in canada so our patent lawyers in many cases exist because we have to figure out how to navigate foreign patents rather than our own) that might even be better for technology.

  65. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

    Oh of course it's been going on, it's been going on really widespread for 20 years. But there two most obvious places where we can eliminate redundant people with the next major rounds of technology are in law and medicine, at least to me. Other people may have other ideas as well. After that there will be new areas that can be dealt with, and before that secretaries (typing pools) and manual labour jobs got axed etc. etc. etc.

    We also put artists out of business, but in many cases that's just changing their workflow. Rather than spending 3 years making trees for a game or a movie they spend 3 days using an algorithm to generate the trees, 3 or 4 touching it up, and then they get on with actually doing something creative.

    If I were to guess the next step after law and medicine it will be transportation and business, and then a lot of retail. Self driving cars, automated checkouts (rfid tag everything), robotic shelf stocking, most of the routine business supply chain management stuff are all really problems better solved by computers. But those are relatively hard or expensive problems to solve so we're quite a ways away from widespread adoption of those technologies.

  66. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

    and the diagnostic part of medicine will become much more automated, with diagnostic equipment having its results interpreted by the computer rather than just an image being spat out and read by a technician and then a doctor.

    Ah, yes. Let's just hope it doesn't end up like this (from the movie Idiocracy):

    Joe is in line leading up to a uniformed TECHNICIAN running what looks like one of those auto-diagnostic machines from Jiffy Lube, or an automated car wash. A sad-looking man pulls up his pants as the technician hits a button on the machine.

    COMPUTER VOICE: You've got hepatitis! Hey! Take it easy! Your illness is important to us!

    TECHNICIAN: Next.

    Joe steps up. The Technician holds up three probes connected to the diagnostic machine.

    TECHNICIAN: Okay. This one goes in your mouth. This one's for your ear. And... This one goes in your butt.

    The technician hands Joe a third probe. Joe looks at it reluctantly, hesitates a beat, then looks at the line of 20 people staring at him.

    GUY IN LINE: Hurry UP ASSHOLE!!!

    Joe unhappily puts the plug up his butt.

    TECHNICIAN: Shit, wait a second.

    The Technician pulls all three plugs out and stupidly fumbles with the identical cables.

    TECHNICIAN: Okay, one goes in your... No, wait a second...

    Joe tries to follow the one that was in his butt like three card monte, but it's a lost cause. The technician stops shuffling the probes.

    TECHNICIAN: Okay. This one goes in your mouth.

    Joe stares in horror as the Technician brings the probe closer to his mouth. Joe hesitates.

    GUY IN LINE: COME ON!!!

    (LATER IN THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE)

    The DOCTOR enters, a big, affable lunk holding several charts and computer printouts.

    DOCTOR: Hey, how's it going, man?

    JOE: Not so good... I'm hallucinating like crazy. I think it's the drugs these Army guys put me on. It's kind of Top Secret, but if you could just get me well enough to get back to Base...

    DOCTOR: (nodding) Uh-huh, uh-huh. Kick ass. (looking at Joe's chart) Anyway, I don't wanna sound like a dick or nothing, but I looked at your charts and it seems like you're fucked up, you talk like a fag, and your shit may be retarded. What I'd do, man, is get plenty of rest-

    JOE: Wha? I... I want a second opinion.

    DOCTOR: (holds up Joe's charts) OmniPal doesn't lie, man. But listen - there's plenty of 'tards out there living really kickass lives. My first wife was retarded and she's a pilot.

    JOE: Okay, I'm going to another hospital.

    DOCTOR: So, that'll be six billion dollars. (hands Joe an invoice)

  67. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Paralegals were replaced by Google and Google Docs. Lawyers could be replaced by Watson's descendants.

  68. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

    So that's what you told the tax investigator when he found out about your money on a Swiss bank account? :-)

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  69. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

    Ever see a commercial for a lawyere where his or her office has a gigantic bookshelf filled with legal books? That is a thing of the past.

    So it is now filled with illegal books? :-)

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  70. Kryton! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever seen Kryton on Red Dwarf?

  71. Are you dealing with the same human race I am? by jeko · · Score: 1

    Capitalism does not NEED to have this problem, as long as all participants are self-determining, self-interested, rational actors.

    Think of the best people you know. How many of them -- the cream of the crop, mind you -- can truly be described as actually self-determining, interested and rational? Try to remember that not even Spock fits this description. :-)

    Now think of all of the rest of the people you know, and try to remember that as a denizen of Slashdot you probably swim in pretty rarified circles.

    Now, contemplate the existence of Sarah Palin and Kim Kardashian and the impact they have on our national attention.

    Finally, think about how our world would look if Capitalism had utterly succeeded and contrast that with how our world would look if Capitalism was a vicious Monopoly game written large.

    Take a look around. ALL around. Which vision fits reality better?

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  72. Re:computerization and automation cost useless job by geohump · · Score: 1

    You say "will" but the fact is, this has already happened. Ask a lawyer when the last time he hired an auditorium full of paralegals to do research?

    That's the replacement of paralegals. Wrong question. The question was - When will lawyers be replaced? Please insert 3 quarters and try again. :-)

  73. I keep asking this by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    and I keep not getting a good answer. So, all you dog-eat-dog libertarians: what are we going to do with all these people we don't need? If you're ready for them to die in the street then I'd like to here you come out and say it. Other than that I don't know of any solution to the problem of massively increasing productivity than either a) ignoring progress Amish style or b) Socialism. And I know, but... but... Socialism?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  74. Title of the Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the title of the article was "Will IBM's Watson kill your career?"
    Then the body of the article said "No".

    I like that kind of closure in an argument.

  75. Robot Uprising? When? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If popular culture has taught us anything, it is that someday mankind must face and destroy the growing robot menace.

    In print and on the big screen we have been deluged with scenarios of robot malfunction, misuse, and outright rebellion. Robots have descended on us from outer space, escaped from top-secret laboratories, and even traveled back in time to destroy us.

    Today, scientists are working hard to bring these artificial creations to life. In Japan, fuzzy little real robots are delivering much appreciated hug therapy to the elderly. Children are frolicking with smiling robot toys.

    It all seems so innocuous. And yet how could so many Hollywood scripts be wrong?

  76. Re:Computers in Healthcare = certain death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course I would also want an empathetic human being capable of understanding the ethical and moral implications of the situation to make the actual recommendations to the patient

    Yea me too. Unfortunately every last healthcare company I've been with appear to have an entire department of non-empathic human beings who's sole job is to deny or delay all claims as much as possible...