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NewEgg: Installing Linux Breaks Laptop

Posted by timothy on from the au-contrair-mon-frere dept.

Rick Zeman writes "According to the normally geek-friendly online store Newegg , installing Linux Mint is tantamount to breaking your new Lenovo laptop. Is it the purchaser's fault for not restoring the laptop to its original state of Windows-y goodness, or is NewEgg being too dogmatic trying to enforce a term that doesn't seem to exist?"

33 of 518 comments (clear)

  1. Unit cannot be resold as received? by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In their reply they said "Unit cannot be accepted or resold as received." Did she make it clear in her initial call that she was returning it for a hardware defect, and not just a general "I'm unsatisfied with it" return? I'm pretty sure that ANY hardware defective computer, with original OS or not, cannot be "resold as received." It sounds like the RMA may have mistakenly been issued as if it were a general return when it should have listed it as a hardware defect return.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by alen · · Score: 4, Funny

      was it really a hardware defect or maybe the linux drivers don't work as well?

    2. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      was it really a hardware defect or maybe the linux drivers don't work as well?

      If you read the article, you'd know the answer!

    3. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by Venotar · · Score: 5, Informative

      Really, glitchy drivers? Way to RTFA: "On the third day of use a loud coil squeal/chirp became apparent, becoming louder when it was running on battery power. Within hours the wireless chipset failed and refused to connect, the display began glitching with horizontal lines appearing through it, and it became unresponsive. I tested it with a Windows live USB thumb drive"

    4. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Even if there weren't a hardware defect, shouldn't they wipe the disk and reinstall the OS from scratch (to protect the second buyer from the possibility that the first buyer got some malware).

      Sounds like a good way to do identity theft - buy a laptop, install your favorite malware (infecting the Windows recovery partition to make it permanent just in case they do a recovery), then return it and let Bestbuy resell it to an unsuspecting customer. Use that user's stolen credit card/bank account details to repeat the process with another batch of laptops.

    5. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by danomac · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, some drivers can cause issues. My laptop came with Vista, which I despise, and so I installed linux on it. Everything mostly worked properly with the exception of the hard-wired lan port and the occasional hang. During my own troubleshooting, I discovered one problem would happen in both OSs and one would not. It turns out a linux driver was causing issues with the temperature probe or something similar and was overheating. So I can understand why manufacturers void the warranty when software can cause the machine to overheat and do nasty things. The LAN port was actually defective. I fixed the temperature issue by getting a bleeding edge copy of lm_sensors.

      In my case, I tarballed my linux install to an external HDD and restored an image I took before I installed linux and sent it back for servicing (which was repaired and sent back to me.)

      In the article it says the BIOS tests confirmed an error. Who knows if it was a rogue driver that caused it?

    6. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise

      Put your hand on the table while I get my 3-Wood out of my bag. And if you've seen my golf handicap, yes my driver is 'glitchy' ;-)

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    7. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course not. And it doesn't represent Newegg well that they would try to resell any returned computer rather than returning it to the manufacturer for "refurbishment".

      Couldn't you say the same for any computer with installed software, even just some Windows applications? Should I expect to buy a computer from Newegg (even one marked as "open box") and find that it had some software that I object to installed on it? Or maybe kiddy porn or spyware or other junk?

      Of course, some might say that the original purchaser should have restored the software to Windows. But that involves making the recovery discs, since computers no longer ship with an actual copy of Windows on optical media. And, at least on the computers that I have made these reinstall discs on, you can only make the restore discs once. So just making the restore discs would put the computer in a condition that should make it unresellable, since the new owner would not be able to make restoration discs!

      The real problem is that Windows is bundled with computers, and that resellers like Newegg accept this and don't do anything to get the manufacturers to give buyers options without the Microsoft tax or to get them physical recovery media. I guess they could try to blame the buyer for trying to install software on his purchase, but I doubt that they can claim that they never expect any buyers to install software on their purchases. Maybe there was indeed some driver issue that brought about the return, but resellers have helped create the environment where this can happen, and they need to share the responsibility.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    8. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Funny

      Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise ...

      Actually, installing Linux drives usually results in a loud squealing noise ... coming from Redmond.

    9. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by Deathlizard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Having to deal with E520's (the E525's are the AMD Variants), It's the PC.

      Now of course, the E525 is a bit different than the E520, but the Minute I read buzzing, MB immediately came to mind. We had no less than 20 of our E520 lot buzz over this past year. Most of them were the MB, but a few of them were the NIC/Power Board. In one case, the NIC/Power board actually melted and was smoking due to a Bad MB. Surprised one hasn't caught on fire yet.

      The other thing that goes bad is the LCD panels, which shows horizontal lines on them. I believe this is due to the way the LCD Panel is connected to the board. In many cases just flexing the case was enough to cause this to occur.

      The other big failure that they have is Fan Errors. apparently a small sticker on the case gets sucked in the fan which stops it. pretty much have to take the whole thing apart to get at it too.

      All I can say is that Lenovo is not IBM when it comes to Laptop build quality and leave it at that.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
    10. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by Minwee · · Score: 5, Funny

      Because a Windows USB thumb drive will have all the necessary drivers for it to function properly.

      Indeed. It's a well known fact that most portable versions of Windows ship with "SQUEALLIKEAPIG.DLL" and "HORIZONALLINESONTHELCD.DLL", so you should never assume that those are obvious hardware failures.

    11. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by haruchai · · Score: 4, Funny

      I now have a visual of Ballmer in Ned Beatty's role ( or position ) in Deliverance.
      Time to bleach my eye sockets and scrub my brain.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    12. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not sure about the current stuff, but I remember way back in the early days of Linux, if you set up your X config incorrectly you could actually fry video cards by feeding them values they couldn't happen.

      Actually, it wasn't so much the video cards, it was the actual CRT monitor you could 'smoke'.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by element-o.p. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because any reasonably competent and conscientious NewEgg tech would re-image the drive anyway before restocking the machine? Or are you going to claim that if you remove and throw away the plastic film that covers the screen, etc., that the machine is "missing something it was sold with" and deny the return for that, too?

      Yes, I'm being a little facetious, but the point is that it is extremely poor policy to restore a machine using the restore partition on the hard drive. Consequently, while technically, yes, the machine is not in original condition, it is (or at least should be) effectively of no importance to the ability to resell the machine, since it is (or again, should be) restored to original condition if NewEgg staff follows proper procedures.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    14. Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? by Sporkinum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My wife's HP desktop runs linux, but came with Windows 7. It is set up dual boot, but she never runs Windows. Not long after she got it, it lost the nic. It wouldn't show up in the bios or windows as well. We returned the computer for repair and when we got it back it worked fine. The problem started again though. I was able to figure out that power management/suspend in linux was disabling the nic. The simple act of unplugging the power cable would reset it and it would run as normal then. Needless to say, suspend is no longer used. The point is that we returned a functional machine due to a linux problem. It happens.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
  2. Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unsurprisingly, even Newegg can't afford super competent folks for their RMA service. So let me help anyone out who things that Newegg left this guy high and dry with some tips. Whenever I buy something, it seems like there's no way to get it without Windows. This means that I am paying for something I don't want. Sucks, right? Well, there's something you can do to monetize this if you want. Sometimes they have stickers with Windows keys on them but if they don't there's a way around this. Boot into windows and download some crappy tool that tells you what your Windows key is (I'm not going to plug any of these tools, most come with adware but who cares, you're about to blow that partition away). Go to My Computer and right click for properties and find where it tells you what version this is. Example: Windows 7 64 bit Professional. Write all that information down or e-mail it to yourself.

    Now, you're free to wipe the whole machine and install whatever the hell you want. If something goes wrong and you need to RMA, you're in luck. You just torrent the ISO for that particular windows and burn it (or use Netbootin in the case of no optical drive) and reinstall it with your key and ship it back. Although this sounds like a lot of work, it actually can be quite useful when a relative or friend needs a copy of Windows. You make them a disc and transfer that heavily subsidized key to them. Sure, it might be illegal in the eyes of someone but it's worked for me and I keep it down to one use per key that I was extorted into buying. Personally, this sort of second sale doesn't feel morally wrong to me but if it does to you, you can always just hold on to your info and consider it an "asset" in your software library.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or the first thing you do when you plan to install linux - replace the hard disk with a fresh one. Then put the original one on a shelf until you either run out of warranty or return the computer.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      its often less effort to open the machine, remove its drive, put drive on shelf (before first ever boot) and put your own laptop drive in (maybe even an ssd) and do whatever you need to.

      I have not stepped on a shipped os, probably ever. drives are cheap and I'll get a 2nd one to use for my own stuff. its exactly like this situation that you keep the original o/s and for me, the original drive sits unused.

      time is what I don't have lots of and doing an image backup then verify then restore later on is 3 steps I'd rather not do. yank the drive, do your stuff on your and if hardware craps out, shove the old drive back in and return it for fixing/warr work.

      plus, you NEVER have any of you files on that drive. no sector scan will EVER have your stuff on it. ever. that's nice, too!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User by painandgreed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or you could just build a set of recovery disks like the manufacturer tells you to (you know, RTM...) If you have a problem, then you can use the recovery disks to restore to factory settings and then return the thing.

      Easier said than done sometimes. I do corporate desktop support and use our own image/build on lots of different types of laptops from Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, etc but still create those disk just in case of something like this. FIrst off, sometimes there is no manual to read. If you're lucky, there's a link on the desktop to make the backup disks. Other times, they hide that feature buried in some other software with no guide as to how to get to it. Once, I just had it fail to create the disks straight out of the box (but luckily, I had two of the same model and the other one worked). That is to say, i do it professionally and I sometimes find it hard, confusing, or even impossible to do, so I can only imagine what a normal user would normally go through.

  3. Answer: GPL4 by null+etc. · · Score: 4, Funny

    Time for RMS to add a "NewEggization" clause to GPL4.

  4. Where are my discs? by RenHoek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I were to buy a laptop with Windows (heavens forbid), then I'd expect installation media to go with it. I can understand NewEgg not fielding support questions on every flavor of Unix, but my grandmother should be able to restore the laptop to mint (pun intended) condition by inserting a DVD.

    If NewEgg fails to deliver that, then there's the problem, not a user installing something else.

    1. Re:Where are my discs? by Microlith · · Score: 4, Informative

      Virtually no vendors these days include a restore CD. Instead they include a junkware riddled "restore partition." Microsoft stopped letting them include clean OEM install CDs years ago.

  5. Re:We've become too comfortable. by Microlith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've forgotten the fact that essentially using Linux does void your warranty in most cases.

    Which is not true, quite frankly.

    Distributions like Linux Mint do a good job of hiding all the warnings that you used to see when trying to get your drivers working, but they are still there.

    Then logically just reinstalling Windows would void your warranty. I suspect they wouldn't have voided the return if it was running Windows.

    From a manufacturer's point of view, I can't say I blame them for having this stance.

    Letting manufacturers dictate end user actions by threatening their hardware warranty is the nasty, nasty direction the computing world is taking. Just accepting it is probably the worst of all possible courses of action.

    Everyone using Linux, FreeBSD, ReactOS or Haiku or any other open source/community built OS where the drivers are written through reverse engineering needs to understand this because sometimes it does come back to bite.

    "If you use non-Windows platforms, you are lesser and will get screwed over. Accept it." That said, I don't know how many drivers are actually -reverse engineered- these days other than Nouveau.

    Sorry if this comes off as rather snarky, but your argument basically falls into the growing anti-Linux, anti-anything-not-Windows bucket.

  6. Re:NewEgg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So what is the go-to site for tech stuff?

  7. I had issues too by SoupGuru · · Score: 5, Informative

    I bought a refurb laptop from Newegg a couple of months ago and received it with an obvious screen defect. The CSR was very nice and helpful and got me an RMA and a UPS label and all that lickety split, no hassle. I sent it in and got an email update a few days later that there was nothing wrong and they were sending it back. So I called in again and this CSR was very helpful too and got me the refund with very little hassle again.

    I don't know what's going on in their laptop repair department.... a manager that doesn't care?

    Any time I've had to interact with a Newegg CSR, this time and others, things have been splendid and I've never had an issue getting a problem resolved.

    --
    What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
  8. Re:We've become too comfortable. by Hatta · · Score: 5, Informative

    If I understand correctly, the Magnum Moss Warranty Act prohibits vendors from tying warranty coverage to branded components unless they can demonstrate that the failure was due to the third party component.

    No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumerâ(TM)s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission ifâ"
    (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
    (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.
    The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  9. What credit cards are for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is probably just a garden-variety fuckup.

    This is why you only buy high-dollar value items on a credit card. Call the card issuer and tell them the merchant refused to accept the product.

  10. Re:Thank you. by nomadic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have been buying from newegg for the past 12 years and in all that time I have never, ever had a problem with them. A single story on slashdot is not going to change that.

  11. Re:Thank you. by spicate · · Score: 4, Informative

    Out of their millions of customers, one had a bad experience. You could find the same with any company. I've returned numerous products to NewEgg without a problem, and they typically have excellent prices and top-quality service. This may be a sign of things to come, but it's a little bit of an overreaction to write them off so quickly.

  12. Article is Misleading by Pollux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I'm not saying that NewEgg's failing to provide the customer service they've been known for, the following does need to be made clear: Installing Linux in no way voids the manufacturer's warranty. If you RTFA, you'll clearly see in the NewEgg letter the following sentence:

    "If you are still unsatisfied with this product or experience further issues, we recommend contacting the manufacturer directly for support."

    Clearly the hardware failed. Clearly the owner can have the laptop repaired / replaced by contacting Lenovo. NewEgg's just not willing to facilitate the process.

  13. Re:We've become too comfortable. by Microlith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously I'm right about the comfort level thing due to people's reactions to my comment.

    Someone disagrees with you and that means what, exactly?

    People can't admit to themselves that they are risking their money by using non-aproved software with hardware they buy.

    Holy hell, it's the same terrible arguments being used to justify locking down mobile devices being applied to standard PC hardware. Wow.

    Don't delude yourself into thinking that hardware that you buy will let you use it without using the manufacturer's approved drivers without voiding warranty.

    By that logic the only OS we can ever use is Windows.

    I'll avoid using an obvious car analogy here.

    Good, because a car analogy would be exceedingly shitty.

  14. Old Policy, still used... by TeddyR · · Score: 4, Informative

    Old news. This has been Neweggs policy for a while now...

    http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/97248/index.html

    http://parrot-farm.net/Newegg/Newegg.com%20Horror%20Story.html

    I stopped buying computers from them in 2007 as well. (still get the occasinal HD or videocard)...

    --

    --
    Time is on my side
  15. This has happened to me by PerlJedi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This very same problem befell me about 1 year ago. I complained very loudly, including on a consumer review website. Within 24 hours of posting my detailed (and scathing) review I received a call from a newegg customer care representative, who assured me they would make it right. They did in fact allow me to exchange the laptop for a new one, and actually gave me a $100 gift card to make up for the trouble.
    While I clearly can't say everyone will get that response, I personally feel that it is important that those of us who run Linux stand up and make it known that we cannot be ignored just because we are not giving our money to either Microsoft or Apple.