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NewEgg: Installing Linux Breaks Laptop
Rick Zeman writes "According to the normally geek-friendly online store Newegg , installing Linux Mint is tantamount to breaking your new Lenovo laptop. Is it the purchaser's fault for not restoring the laptop to its original state of Windows-y goodness, or is NewEgg being too dogmatic trying to enforce a term that doesn't seem to exist?"
In their reply they said "Unit cannot be accepted or resold as received." Did she make it clear in her initial call that she was returning it for a hardware defect, and not just a general "I'm unsatisfied with it" return? I'm pretty sure that ANY hardware defective computer, with original OS or not, cannot be "resold as received." It sounds like the RMA may have mistakenly been issued as if it were a general return when it should have listed it as a hardware defect return.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Unsurprisingly, even Newegg can't afford super competent folks for their RMA service. So let me help anyone out who things that Newegg left this guy high and dry with some tips. Whenever I buy something, it seems like there's no way to get it without Windows. This means that I am paying for something I don't want. Sucks, right? Well, there's something you can do to monetize this if you want. Sometimes they have stickers with Windows keys on them but if they don't there's a way around this. Boot into windows and download some crappy tool that tells you what your Windows key is (I'm not going to plug any of these tools, most come with adware but who cares, you're about to blow that partition away). Go to My Computer and right click for properties and find where it tells you what version this is. Example: Windows 7 64 bit Professional. Write all that information down or e-mail it to yourself.
Now, you're free to wipe the whole machine and install whatever the hell you want. If something goes wrong and you need to RMA, you're in luck. You just torrent the ISO for that particular windows and burn it (or use Netbootin in the case of no optical drive) and reinstall it with your key and ship it back. Although this sounds like a lot of work, it actually can be quite useful when a relative or friend needs a copy of Windows. You make them a disc and transfer that heavily subsidized key to them. Sure, it might be illegal in the eyes of someone but it's worked for me and I keep it down to one use per key that I was extorted into buying. Personally, this sort of second sale doesn't feel morally wrong to me but if it does to you, you can always just hold on to your info and consider it an "asset" in your software library.
My work here is dung.
Time for RMS to add a "NewEggization" clause to GPL4.
A killer poke? Really?
If a driver bug can physically ruin hardware, the hardware is made wrong.
If I were to buy a laptop with Windows (heavens forbid), then I'd expect installation media to go with it. I can understand NewEgg not fielding support questions on every flavor of Unix, but my grandmother should be able to restore the laptop to mint (pun intended) condition by inserting a DVD.
If NewEgg fails to deliver that, then there's the problem, not a user installing something else.
NewEgg long ago stopped being the go-to site for tech stuff and went full on commercial.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Which is not true, quite frankly.
Then logically just reinstalling Windows would void your warranty. I suspect they wouldn't have voided the return if it was running Windows.
Letting manufacturers dictate end user actions by threatening their hardware warranty is the nasty, nasty direction the computing world is taking. Just accepting it is probably the worst of all possible courses of action.
"If you use non-Windows platforms, you are lesser and will get screwed over. Accept it." That said, I don't know how many drivers are actually -reverse engineered- these days other than Nouveau.
Sorry if this comes off as rather snarky, but your argument basically falls into the growing anti-Linux, anti-anything-not-Windows bucket.
I bought a refurb laptop from Newegg a couple of months ago and received it with an obvious screen defect. The CSR was very nice and helpful and got me an RMA and a UPS label and all that lickety split, no hassle. I sent it in and got an email update a few days later that there was nothing wrong and they were sending it back. So I called in again and this CSR was very helpful too and got me the refund with very little hassle again.
I don't know what's going on in their laptop repair department.... a manager that doesn't care?
Any time I've had to interact with a Newegg CSR, this time and others, things have been splendid and I've never had an issue getting a problem resolved.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
If I understand correctly, the Magnum Moss Warranty Act prohibits vendors from tying warranty coverage to branded components unless they can demonstrate that the failure was due to the third party component.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
This is probably just a garden-variety fuckup.
This is why you only buy high-dollar value items on a credit card. Call the card issuer and tell them the merchant refused to accept the product.
I have been buying from newegg for the past 12 years and in all that time I have never, ever had a problem with them. A single story on slashdot is not going to change that.
Out of their millions of customers, one had a bad experience. You could find the same with any company. I've returned numerous products to NewEgg without a problem, and they typically have excellent prices and top-quality service. This may be a sign of things to come, but it's a little bit of an overreaction to write them off so quickly.
(2) Wait 30 days, then file a credit card dispute saying "I returned this broken item, and newegg accepted it (Delivery Confirmation Number: 279279490242), but they have failed to refund the money.
(3) Done. These stores sign a contract with a credit card company & it states they will accept returns of broken items. It's the credit company's form of a warranty. (If stores don't like it, then they can refuse to sign the contract.)
And before some fool says this is "stealing" or whatever..... you're right! It is stealing. Newegg stole from a citizen by selling JUNK and not honoring the warranty. IMHO they should have their license of incorporation revoked by the government. But a refund on the broken item is good too. Consumer protection law sides with the customer not the jackassmegacorp.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Obviously Mr. and Mrs. Coward didn't learn the first time, although naming you both Anonymous was a stroke of genius.
Be nice to your sibling.
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Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
While I'm not saying that NewEgg's failing to provide the customer service they've been known for, the following does need to be made clear: Installing Linux in no way voids the manufacturer's warranty. If you RTFA, you'll clearly see in the NewEgg letter the following sentence:
"If you are still unsatisfied with this product or experience further issues, we recommend contacting the manufacturer directly for support."
Clearly the hardware failed. Clearly the owner can have the laptop repaired / replaced by contacting Lenovo. NewEgg's just not willing to facilitate the process.
We've forgotten the fact that essentially using Linux does void your warranty in most cases.
This is just plain untrue. Got some examples to support your claim that this is indeed true in most cases? Probably not, at least outside of sub-Saharan Africa, so let me explain how warranties work:
Limited hardware warranties are put in place so manufacturers/sellers can meet their legal obligations (and be competitive). No number of elaborate clauses allow a company to step away from its legal obligations. Mainstream and well known companies tend to exceed the minimum requirements of the law. It's a better customer experience Installing Linux can be used as a basis for voiding non-legally required support - such as software support and extended support contracts. It cannot be used to void the hardware warranty, but can be used to refuse a repair if the use of the software can reasonably be attributed as a cause for the hardware failure. Support monkies and shop gimps may say talk about voiding the warranty. Just ask them to have that in writing - this won't happen. Ask them to show you where in the terms of their limited warranty it explains that installing Linux voids the hardware warranty they are legally obliged to provide. They won't have anything in there, except perhaps a vague reference to unintended use of the product. With this they have a pretty fucking difficult argument unless they clearly sell the computer for use only with x operating system.
This isn't because NewEgg doesn't like Linux.. Its because merchants don't like returns. Each return costs money--from credit card charges, to inspecting and shipping it back to the factory, and tracking the return through the system. I'm guessing they will take it back if you complain a little (or a lot, in the case of slashdot).
With any low-cost reseller, you trade low prices for some types of restrictions. If you want a merchant who will take back anything without restriction (such as Nordstroms) you need to spend more for the privilege. There are thousands of small businesses that would give you unlimited support and take your system back--but they charge a more.
Its not like they are sticking you with a dead product--they are just making you go through the standard factory service to get it repaired.
> You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back
So that means that I can't install "proprietary app of your choice" or "proprietary game of your choice" then?
It's a PC. It's built to be modified.
One of the first things I would do with a stock WinPC short of replacing the OS would be to install all of those little utilities that allow me to tweak those things that are supposed to be able to destroy they hardware if it's running Linux. I like to be able to see and directly control things like fan speed and CPU temperature and CPU speed.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back.
Changing the configuration of bits on the hard drive is not a "substantial alteration" to it, unless you're suggesting that the warranty should be voided the minute she runs the "First Time Setup" and puts her name into the thing.
Whether or not the OS is a "major selling point" is as irrelevant to whether or not hardware is defective as the OS itself is.
Someone disagrees with you and that means what, exactly?
Holy hell, it's the same terrible arguments being used to justify locking down mobile devices being applied to standard PC hardware. Wow.
By that logic the only OS we can ever use is Windows.
Good, because a car analogy would be exceedingly shitty.
Linux breaks notebooks! I've heard of other company's trying to claim this but here's something to ask them, "Prove it!". Is it the better security that breaks the notebook? Is it the better memory and CPU management that breaks the notebook? Is it the better fundamental design from the ground up which breaks the notebook? I'm really confused on what it is that breaks the notebook, or could it just be that NO one in tech support understands Linux enough to get past grub! So because they don't understand it's your fault.
I'm more worried about leaving my notebook in the hands of a shitty tech support worker then installing Linux, Tech Support breaks notebooks, not Linux!
Old news. This has been Neweggs policy for a while now...
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/97248/index.html
http://parrot-farm.net/Newegg/Newegg.com%20Horror%20Story.html
I stopped buying computers from them in 2007 as well. (still get the occasinal HD or videocard)...
--
Time is on my side
I just dd and bzip it onto my home server. Normally it's only a few gigabytes when compressed because mosf of the disk is full of zeros.
In fact, if most of the disk isn't full of zeros that's probably a good sign that they sold me a laptop that someone else had returned.
I think the appearance of this story on Slashdot will raise enough of a stink within NewEgg to make them reconsider their position on this and similar issues. Their RMA techs need to be able to address HARDWARE issues when the issue is hardware. The OS is irrelevant. (mostly)
But we all know the risk of using an "other than Windows OS." But for the past... oh, I don't know... 10 years or more it seems like? I have always made it my practice to buy a new hard drive for any computer I buy. I remove the original HDD, slip it into an anti-static bag, label it and store it. THEN I begin installing my new OS... usually Linux.
This way, when/if I get an issue with hardware, I can pop the Windows drive back in and deal with the moronic tech support on the other end.
You can fight the system all day long, but it will have to take a lot more influence than I can muster to make things change.
I'm grateful that this story has made it to Slashdot. A lot of NewEgg customers will reconsider certain types of purchases from them or at least whether or not to buy it with a new HDD to drop into it.
I can definitely see things from NewEgg's perspective. They need to use cheap techs. Cheap techs aren't great techs. Also, they need to be able to process things in a timely manner. And if they don't happen to understand what they are looking at, it causes delay. Delay costs money. There could be more to it than that but I don't think Microsoft has played any role in this one.
This very same problem befell me about 1 year ago. I complained very loudly, including on a consumer review website. Within 24 hours of posting my detailed (and scathing) review I received a call from a newegg customer care representative, who assured me they would make it right. They did in fact allow me to exchange the laptop for a new one, and actually gave me a $100 gift card to make up for the trouble.
While I clearly can't say everyone will get that response, I personally feel that it is important that those of us who run Linux stand up and make it known that we cannot be ignored just because we are not giving our money to either Microsoft or Apple.
Newegg's greed
And you shop there, why, exactly? It's not to get dirt cheap prices, is it? Nah. I'm sure you shop there because they're a local company that gives back to your community, right? I'm sure you shop there because you know that the owners of the company will do good things with the money, right?
I don't respond to AC's.
By that logic the only OS we can ever use is Windows.
Not quite. By his(?) logic, the only OS we can ever use is the *EXACT COPY* of Windows sold with the machine.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Newegg's RMA department seems to be a little crazy. I once received a scanner with a damaged box from them. When I opened the box, it was obvious that the power adapter had fallen out of the hole in the box sometime during shipping. Since neither they nor Epson could just send me a replacement adapter, I had to RMA the whole thing. The RMA was initially denied because I hadn't included all parts that shipped with the scanner.
A phone call cleared things up, but really? They didn't even read the RMA closely enough to see that the missing part was the entire point of the RMA?
Newegg is not the company it once was.
I used Newegg for virtually every parts purchase for nine years (and I make or "guide" a lot of purchases, amounting to many thousands of dollars over that period), in part because they were among the first willing to ship internet orders to FPO/APO addresses of military personnel located overseas. I kept using Newegg at home, even when they weren't the cheapest, because of that courtesy when others (like Tiger) simply refused. Newegg also had excellent customer service on those rare occasions when I needed to return an item.
Last year, when upgrading a system, Newegg sent me a defective DDR3 stick. The twin-pack was, I think $23. I swapped the stick to another machine to verify that it was indeed defective. I submitted an RMA request to Newegg, and was shocked when I was told there would be a $2 restocking fee on the return.
Restocking fees are to cover the cost of inventorying and repackaging an item for resale. You can't resell a confirmed-defective item. There is no such thing as a valid restocking fee on a defective-item return. I went back and forth with Newegg for a couple of weeks on this, and they insisted that I would be charged a restocking fee for returning a defective item. I sent in the RMA, and they did indeed charge me for it.
I hope Newegg found that $2 worthwhile. It's the last they have gotten or ever will get from me or the many friends/family/colleagues that come to me for advice. I do find their website makes a great front-end for finding what I want to buy from Amazon or elsewhere, though.
Modern Intel and AMD CPU throttling is done via hardware on the chip itself. If you remove the heatsink and boot to the BIOS screen, you'll see that the CPU has throttled itself, with no involvement from any OS.
AMD will burn! See the Tom's Hardware video.
Very interesting... except that the video is originally from 2001, so I doubt that it has a lot to say about "modern Intel and AMD CPUs" unless you count hardware that came out between the dotcom crash and 9/11 as "modern". :-)
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Let us assume, for arguments sake, that dodgy Linux drivers were responsible for the hardware defect (by over heating or whatever). Is it not possible that some dodgy windows drivers (or malware pretending to be a HW driver) could do the same thing?
Either way, the cause of a hardware fault could be caused by software, whether you're running Windows, Linux, BSD, hackintosh or whatever. So NewEgg's stance on this (assuming it is HW at fault) should be OS agnostic.