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Japan Restarts Two of Its 50 Nuclear Reactors
Darth_brooks writes "Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda ordered the restart of two idle nuclear reactors Saturday, amid split public response. The Japanese government is trying to fill a summer power shortfall. According to the article, the two reactors supply power to the Kansai region near Osaka, where local officials were predicting a 15% shortfall in power capacity during July and August."
They should leave all the reactors offline that have safety flaws common to the Fukushima plants (close proximity to tidal wave hazards, external diesel generator fuel tanks, etc.) and start up all the rest.
Can't survive on renewable energy, and can't built the old coal power plants fast enough even when you're buying up coal as fast as Canada can dig it out of the ground for you. Not a surprise...not a damn surprise. Especially when you've got the idle plants just sitting there.
Om, nomnomnom...
and this time they picked no disasters in the menu
For successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
No matter who you are, that's true for any technology.
About time they stopped the nonsense and came back to their senses on the nuclear.
But also it's about time they stopped the nonsense and came to their senses on this desire to destroy their own purchasing power, they have to stop printing the Yen and let it rise, so that they can buy the supplies they need cheaper and others would start investing in their economy more, creating more savings and thus investments, which would boost their real economy, create a bunch of new businesses.
You can't handle the truth.
The Prime Minister, however, simply CANNOT resist the earthquake button.
There's another way to fix the shortfall: simply raise the price of peak hour electricity until demand falls to the level of supply. We've known for hundreds of years that prices set below the going rate determined by supply and demand is the cause of shortages.
The increased peak hour revenue could be used to lower off-peak electricity prices so that people pay on average the same as before.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
While restarting any nuclear reactors is currently quite unpopular in Japan nationally, the decision to restart this particular plant's two reactors was actually made with local input and approval. Local councils aren't normally required to approve such matters, but due to the current controversy, Japan's government de-facto made restart contingent on approval from the local government. After several months of safety studies and deliberation, the municipal council voted 11-1 in favor of restarting the reactors in mid-May, which gave the national government some cover to go ahead with it.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I suggest they save their game first, and watch what happens at Cheetah speed for awhile.
When you can't have everything your way, having some electricity is not a bad start.
Both Fukushima and the subsequent tests have clearly shown that nuclear power, especially when bought from an occupying power and built by a powerful oligopoly under a weak and corrupt government, is neither cheap, nor safe.
If you had even a single brain cell you would arrive at the opposite conclusion.
Fukushima survived a huge earthquake, and unexpected wave, and a disastrous internal failure.
DESPITE all that, very few people were killed, and almost no-one outside the plant had any exposure of significance to radiation.
And all this in a plant with a design that was decades old...
If you can't see how inherently safe nuclear is from this incident, nothing can reach your luddite mind.
Nuclear is the one green energy we truly have at our disposal, and backward bumpkins like yourself seek to rob humanity of the benefits that come from cheap and continuous access to power. How many more lives must perish under your cruel tyranny of unwarranted fear?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
To all the uranium power nuclear boosters who will appear in this thread I have one fact to remind you of. The Japanese PM at the time of the disaster was seriously considering having to evacuate Tokyo. If he had not forced Tepco to be more proactive in their management of the disaster and thus managed to head-off a nuclear cascade (with the disaster spreading to nuclear reactors closer to Tokyo) this would have happened.
Imagine what that would have done to Japan and its economy. Not total wipe-out for the country but it would have certainly brought it to its knees. If there was a similar disaster in one of Taiwan's uranium reactors it would destroy the country as there is nowhere far enough to get away in that small island which has a population of over 20 million and is a key part of the IT supply chain.
These risks are too significant and severe to hazard and we have shown that we do not have the level of social and political sophistication to contain them.
I'm not saying that some of the existing reactors might not need to be restarted. But no new uranium reactors should ever be built and massive investment should be thrown into renewable energy and thorium nuclear.
No. but we are full of oil. And coal. And plutonium.
That's bad.
aaaaaaa
AFAIK, Japan STILL haven't cleaned up after their last embarassing meltdown. How many tonnes of radioactive water flowed into our oceans? How many tonnes of radioactive dust was kicked up into the air? Do we just let them say "ah shit ... sorry ... oh by the way, we're going to keep using nuclear power"?
and this time they picked no disasters in the menu
i can understand that, they always get the tsunami and never godzilla, no fun
subsidies the hell out of LED light bulbs, instant water heaters and energy efficient TVs and PCs. The mandate LED light bulbs & instant water heaters in apartments so that people who rent don't bear the costs of apartments being cheapskates. Add dual pane windows as a requirement too. Their are three electricity costs that matter: Heating & cooling, Lighting & Hot Water. We have the technology to lower all three, and it's in everyone's interest. The issue is that the cost is born by people that can't get together the scratch for the energy efficient stuff even though it saves money overall.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
You want to make the problem worse ? How would that help ?
Yes, worse.
Can't survive on renewable energy, yet,
ftfy
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Keynesian economics HAS NEVER WORKED FOR ANY COUNTRY IN ANY SITUATION
In the voice of Donald Rumsfeld, "That's a known unknown."
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence either way. Case in point -- when European economies tightened the books, every economy predictably contracted. Proof? Absolutely not.
Cut the cognitive dissonance, and enter the conversation =)
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
What really REALLY annoys me about the bullshit surrounding the whole tsunami/Fukushima event is that it lets the real culprits off the hook. And the real culprits are the regulators who let TEPCO continue to operate the oldest and least safe reactors past their operational life. Remember, all the other reactors in Japan shut down safely after an enormous natural disaster that ended up killing over 22,000 people (IIRC).
Now the Japanese people are paying the price for a huge over-reeaction to the use of nuclear power, and those regulators are unpopular, but not punished for not doing their jobs properly. And so many people conveniently forget that Japan's "economic miracle" was made possible by the use of stably-priced nuclear power after the huge "oil shock" price rises that hit their oil-fired power plants.
What I really don't understand is the demonisation of nuclear power generation, given the large number of deaths each year in the coal mining and oil extraction industries (Google if you don't believe me). The anti-nuclear loonies really do have a very selective view of "safety".
Over the course of a full year, the average electric bill would stay the same.
Actually there is no "reversal" the bills just won't be as high. The will still be using some high priced day electricity and some lower priced night electricity. If electrical heat is used then they will be in the same boat as the high costs will be for heating during the day rather than cooling.That also does not help if you can not afford your summer bills. Many people live from paycheck to paycheck and can not afford high bills.
If they only operate during peak price, it's because there isn't enough of an incentive to shift their operating hours. This changes that.
How many businesses do you know that can shift their hours out of the 9AM to 5PM range? Most business do business with people and other businesses between 9and5. Even if it was possible to shift the schedule, how many people would want to work nights when they could do the same job during the day? Also by shifting to nights all that would happen is that business would move to companies that were open during the day.
Time-of-use pricing gives people an additional option: shift heavy electrical usage (such as laundry and cooking and dishes) to the off-peak periods in order to save money. Giving people additional ways to save money is a good thing, right?
How many people do you think will wait till past midnight to cook dinner? How many people will do the same for laundry? Sure one could have a timer on the machine and have it run late at night but that would mean it would take 2 days to do a load (one for wash and one for dry as the laundry will not move from the washer to the dryer by itself). Most people sleep during off peak energy hours which is the main reason the demand is lower. Most people come home from work, make dinner, wash dishes, do laundry, watch some tv and go to bed. This standard is not going to change due to changing electrical bills. Realistic options are good but unrealistic options are not.
It's nice to see someone in authority tell the mob to get f'd. What's authority for if not for that?
Japan now has an excellent, large nucleotidebrownfield, national sacrifice area for nuclear power development. Might as well build a dozen modern plants there like AP2000+. Next time, please build the reactors 10 meters higher and use the coal clinkers to build bigger, higher seawalls. Thank you.
And hire a 3rd party nuclear regulatory state like US NRC for consulting and oversight.
your flawless rethoric convinced me thoroughly.
May I subscribe to your newsletter?
remember Fuku initiated shut down too, automatically, within seconds of the signal from the ocean buoy that detected the original earthquake. this was hours before the wave hit.
problem is you cant just shut a reactor down in mins, hours, or even days. you really need to keep the cooling powered and functional for months.
if you learn nothing else understand that it takes months to turn a nuclear reactor off. any time before this, and a powerfailure or cooling failure will still result in a progression to meltdown.
one problem was that once the electric back bone was down these cooling systems which require megawatts, could not be powered from the grid, and the diesel supply was only enough for a day or so. it was diesel was one issue but so was the lack of coolant, and level kept dropping due to evaporation and in some cases because of leaks which were also reflected in the variation in reactor vessel pressure.
helicoptering in diesel becomes extremely expensive, and only even becomes a sane consideration when the alternative is a meltdown.
17/06/2007 - 1 Euro = 165.79 Yen
04/03/2011 - 1 Euro = 114.66 Yen (1 week before tsunami)
17/06/2012 - 1 Euro = 99.64 Yen
17/06/2007 - 1 USD = 123.63 Yen
04/03/2011 - 1 USD = 82.41 Yen (1 week before tsunami)
17/06/2012 - 1 USD = 79.27 Yen
17/06/2007 - 1 Euro = 165.79 Yen
04/03/2011 - 1 Euro = 114.66 Yen (1 week before tsunami)
17/06/2012 - 1 Euro = 99.64 Yen
17/06/2007 - 1 USD = 123.63 Yen
04/03/2011 - 1 USD = 82.41 Yen (1 week before tsunami)
17/06/2012 - 1 USD = 79.27 Yen
The Yen has grown steadily in value in the last 5 years against the two biggest currencies in the world. It has even become more valuable since the tsunami.
What data do you have to suggest that Japan is "printing Yen"?
Watch the wind at crossroads link. It features a republican businessman who runs a high-tech factory. Wind will be cheaper than coal very soon -- perhaps only 5 years. The reasons are purely technical. If the USA doesn't subsidise the investment, then Europe/China will own the market. Note, the USA /still/ subsidises the oil/coal industry.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
The wave was expected (relevant studies/reports were buried), and the disastrous internal failure was completely avoidable. The nuclear regulatory agency responsible for overseeing the plants were in bed with the industry, and thus there was no accountability resulting in multiple safety violations.
When management's motivation is not aligned with the public's, no industry is inherently "safe". The only solution? Hold management and regulatory agency officials criminally liable for corruption/negligence. Personally bankrupt all involved along with jail sentences. The corporate shield helps no one.
BP oil spill, Challenger disaster, etc. All easily avoidable...
“They completely ignored me in order to save Tepco money,” said Mr. Shimazaki, 65
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/world/asia/critics-say-japan-ignored-warnings-of-nuclear-disaster.html?pagewanted=all
"Frank N. von Hippel, a U.S. scientist, has estimated that "on the order of 1,000" people will die from cancer as a result of their exposure to radiation from the Fukushima Daiichi disaster,"
"According to a 2012 Yomiuri Shimbun survey, 573 deaths have been certified as "disaster-related" by 13 municipalities affected by the Fukushima nuclear disaster."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster#Casualties
You might have included the definition of your misleading statement, to wit, " a disaster-related death certificate is issued when a death is not directly caused by a tragedy, but by "fatigue or the aggravation of a chronic disease due to the disaster".
So again, zero deaths caused by the reactor meltdown, zero, none, zip, nadda.
Why do people duplicate title in the post itself?
If there were no meltdown, these deaths would not have occurred. Playing with semantics to prove a minor point is pretty weak. :)
17/06/2007 - 1 Australian Dollar = 104.43 Yen
17/06/2012 - 1 Australian Dollar = 79.06Yen
17/06/2007 - 1 GBP = 245.76 Yen
17/06/2012 - 1 GBP = 123.31Yen
17/06/2007 - 1 Swiss Franc = 99.80 Yen
17/06/2012 - 1 Swiss Franc = 82.94 Yen
17/06/2007 - 1 Swedish Krona = 17.80 Yen
17/06/2012 - 1 Swedish Krona = 10.96 Yen
Saying that "all currencies are debased" is ridiculous. The whole world is still using money. And it turns out that Japan's money has gained in value against pretty much every other currency on the planet in the last 5 years. If Japan is "printing money", then every other nation is far more guilty of the same "sin".
You can let yourself be seduced by the newspaper headlines as much as you wish, but the raw numbers don't lie. Find me some currencies that have held their value better than the Yen in the last 5 years, or cease your ill-informed posturing.
First was a wave of water with the Tusnami, then the wave environmentalists that slowed the economy with the nuke shutdowns.
If there were no meltdown, these deaths would not have occurred.
No, these deaths would have been blamed on something else. Maybe a huge earthquake.
Bzzzzt. Wrong. Try again. Only the Fukushima nuclear disaster related deaths were issued official certificates because the surviving families are getting money. Not all applicants were accepted.
573 deaths 'related to nuclear crisis'
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T120204003191.htm
A total of 573 deaths have been certified as "disaster-related" by 13 municipalities
The conflicts of interest are blatant here. First, the municipalities are beholden to the very people who would want to blame anything, say the Fukushima accident, for the deaths of their relatives or friends. Second, there may be a great deal of money involved in showing harm from the accident. Each death can be exploited to leverage more money from some source.
It doesn't help that there is no natural competence for making such a determination especially in light of what probably would have happened anyway. My view is that those deaths would have occurred anyway, in absence of the nuclear accident, just due to the ill health of the people in question and the stress of the earthquake and tsunami. The Fukushima accident is just a convenient and profitable scapegoat.
"In Minami-Soma, a screening panel of doctors, lawyers and other experts examined 251 applications and approved 234 of them."
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T120204003191.htm
Lol. If you want to pretend that all 573 applicants are lying for the money, then it's your right. But not only have I been to Japan and have had Japanese friends and girlfriends, I can tell you that they are one of the most honest people I have met. You can leave your wallet on a park bench and it will go untouched. Try that in NYC.
So I will believe the certificates (screened by doctors, lawyers, etc.) are valid until proven otherwise. And your stance is insulting to those who did lose someone because of the nuclear disaster. It's a shame you can't simply admit that you're wrong and continue to rationalize away without any supporting evidence. *sigh*
In the meantime, it is a *FACT* that the Japanese government acknowledges people died as a result of the nuclear disaster at Fukushima. Whether you do or not is irrelevant. End of discussion, thanks for playing.
Can't argue with the willfully stubborn and ignorant anymore. Let other slashdotters beware and heed this example! :)
If you want to pretend that all 573 applicants are lying for the money
There are other reasons to be wrong than the money. But it's probably mostly about the money.
Can't argue with the willfully stubborn and ignorant anymore. Let other slashdotters beware and heed this example! :)
Let me boil down your argument to its essentials. You claim that 500+ people have died of vague-to-the-point-of-bullshit reasons from a nuclear accident rather than the concurrent humongous earthquake and tsunamis. This was determined by committees, consisting of, what a reporter in your link euphemistically graced, "experts". And then you note that one can't argue with the willfully stubborn and ignorant any more (like you ever could).
You don't say!
In the meantime, it is a *FACT* that the Japanese government acknowledges people died as a result of the nuclear disaster at Fukushima. Whether you do or not is irrelevant. End of discussion, thanks for playing.
It's not about acknowledgement, but whether it really happened. Reality is not a courtroom where something is deemed to have happened because the other side agrees that it happened. People don't drop dead because of a little stress. There's something else wrong. And I find it particularly pernicious to claim to be able to distinguish such harm from a nuclear accident, which happens to have wealthy targets to blame and sue, from harm from a concurrent disaster.
Lol. Are you a 911/moon landing/pyramid conspiracy theorist as well?
I'll take you seriously when you have some relevant info/evidence supporting your opinions on what "really happened" than just sheer cynical/pernicious speculation. Please excuse me if I don't hold my breathe. :)
Until then, it is a fact that people have officially died from the nuclear disaster. Don't mislead people thinking otherwise without the disclaimer that it is only your opinion unlike what you did in your original post. Have some fucking integrity.
May you find the strength and humility to admit when you're wrong one day, you will be a much better person for it and the people around you will appreciate it. Good luck. :)
Until then, it is a fact that people have officially died from the nuclear disaster.
No, it's a fact that some officials have claimed that people died from the nuclear accident. That has just as much weight in my view as your empty words on the subject.
Ok mr. holocaust denier/conspiracy nut. Let's put it this way. It's a fact that the Japanese government has officially recognized and certified at least 573 deaths as a result of the Fukushima nuclear accident. Can't play with semantics on that one. HA! You can suck it! :P
It's a fact that the Japanese government has officially recognized and certified at least 573 deaths as a result of the Fukushima nuclear accident.
That's wrong. The committees in question are run by local municipalities not the Japanese government. Second, even if the Japanese government did make such irresponsible determinations, that doesn't mean they really happened. Third, again you completely ignore the conflict of interest here. Need I remind you that the Japanese do remain human with all the usual flaws?
Look you're just wasting my time at this point. You clearly want any scrap of evidence, no matter how perverted or biased, to back your claims that Fukushima has killed someone. I challenge you to find one of those 573 or so people who actually did die from the nuclear accident rather than from other causes.
The government declares a 20 km evacuation zone around nuclear disaster site causing mass panic and everyone leaves, including rescue workers. The unrescued, sick and elderly are stranded and left to die.
"drivers and transportation company workers fled or refused to come to Okuma because of radiation fears."
"We knew there would be risks, but we were left with no choice," Sakashita told the AP. "There is no doubt in my mind that if there had been better planning in advance by the city, this person would not have died. The same is true for the people who died while being evacuated from Futaba. Their deaths were a direct result of the nuclear accident." Masahiro Sakashita - nursing home director in Minami-Soma whose residents faced starvation and lack of medicine because of the evacuation.
Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear evacuation fatal for old, sick
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765558622/Fukushima-Dai-ichi-nuclear-evacuation-fatal-for-old-sick.html?pg=all
"Nevertheless, rumor spread quickly that the radiation emitted by the explosion was so deadly that it would kill everyone in the vicinity unless they escaped immediately.... Much later, elderly people, hospital patients and physically and mentally handicapped people were evacuated. A lack of suitable accommodation for these unfortunate souls meant that they were transferred from one place to another, sometimes spending long hours in cars. Some were moved to large cities hundreds of kilometers away. By March 15, 50 elderly people had died. On that day, the No 2 and No 3 reactor buildings also exploded, causing anxiety among people in other regions of Fukushima prefecture, as well as neighboring prefectures and even Tokyo. In addition, 1,800 people were missing as a result of the tsunami, but high levels of radiation prevented search and rescue work."
"6,600 deaths resulted from the devastating effects of the aftermath of the earthquake and the nuclear power accident. Many people committed suicide, like the 64-year-old farmer, who had produced organic cabbages for more than 30 years in Sugagawa, 70 km away. He took his life on March 24. Prior to the disaster, Fukushima Prefecture had 150,000 hectares of rice and vegetable fields and 80,000 farming households.... The nuclear explosion subjected the entire region, as well as areas far beyond, to radiation levels equivalent to 20 times that inflicted on Hiroshima by the atomic bomb. Radiation continues to permeate the surrounds. The damage to the agricultural and fishery industries is beyond speculation. In addition to the initial destruction, “hot spots” - places contaminated with high levels of radiation, such as the village of Iidate – outside the 20km zone continue to cause great concern. It is most unlikely that those who lived within the 20km zone or in these hot-spot areas will ever be able to return to their homes and resume their interrupted lives."
An interesting bit...
"People in Fukushima are also facing “social discrimination,” in the same way that atomic bombing survivors in Hiroshima and Nagasaki have done for decades. In Japan it is widely believed that many children born to victims of the atomic bombings carry genetic defects, caused by their parents’ exposure to high levels of radiation. As yet there is no clear medical or scientific evidence to prove such claims. However, many people still try to avoid marrying the descendants of atomic bomb survivors. Sadly, this same myth is now emerging with regard to Fukushima. Such discrimination is also happening in schools, where children from Fukushima are being bullied by their classmates, who think radiation is contaminating."
A Lesson from the Fukushima Nuclear Accident
http://www.japanfocus.org/events/view/149
Loss of life after evacuation: lessons learned from the Fukushima accid
The government declares a 20 km evacuation zone around nuclear disaster site causing mass panic and everyone leaves, including rescue workers. The unrescued, sick and elderly are stranded and left to die.
So the government killed a bunch of people. What does that have to do with the nuclear accident?
"We knew there would be risks, but we were left with no choice," Sakashita told the AP. "There is no doubt in my mind that if there had been better planning in advance by the city, this person would not have died. The same is true for the people who died while being evacuated from Futaba. Their deaths were a direct result of the nuclear accident." Masahiro Sakashita - nursing home director in Minami-Soma whose residents faced starvation and lack of medicine because of the evacuation.
So people who were responsible for the care of others abandoned their duties. What does that have to do with a nuclear accident?
"Nevertheless, rumor spread quickly that the radiation emitted by the explosion was so deadly that it would kill everyone in the vicinity unless they escaped immediately.... Much later, elderly people, hospital patients and physically and mentally handicapped people were evacuated. A lack of suitable accommodation for these unfortunate souls meant that they were transferred from one place to another, sometimes spending long hours in cars. Some were moved to large cities hundreds of kilometers away. By March 15, 50 elderly people had died. On that day, the No 2 and No 3 reactor buildings also exploded, causing anxiety among people in other regions of Fukushima prefecture, as well as neighboring prefectures and even Tokyo. In addition, 1,800 people were missing as a result of the tsunami, but high levels of radiation prevented search and rescue work."
So improper care was taken of the elderly and the sick. 1800 people were missing as a result of the tsunami? And they all just happen to be within 20 km of the plant? It's a pretty weak excuse to claim high levels of radiation. Again, this would be a failure of evacuation and rescue efforts, as well as the concurrent earthquake and tsunami that people tend to forget about. And of course, what does this have to do with the nuclear accident?
Many people committed suicide, like the 64-year-old farmer, who had produced organic cabbages for more than 30 years in Sugagawa, 70 km away.
Once again, what does this have to do with the nuclear accident?
"People in Fukushima are also facing âoesocial discrimination,â
Again, so what?
These examples illustrate my point nicely. None of them had anything to do with the nuclear accident. They were failures of government or society, along with some cases of individual decisions and mistakes. For the most part, you can't even show the failures wouldn't have occurred in the absence of a nuclear accident either, since a lot of this is just absence of preparedness for large-scale disasters.
No conflicts of interest, "irresponsible determinations", nor government/municipal issues to argue about here.
Utter nonsense. You simply don't understand the issues. Educate yourself first, then we might have something to talk about. The conflict of interest is basic. There needs to be someone to blame. TEPCO is the natural target. There's also money to be had. Again TEPCO has deep pockets as does the Japanese government. The municipalities are just engaging in a bit of blame theater.
You are officially retarded. But I'm here to help you.
Tell me where you don't follow.
Nuclear disaster causes radiation leak.
Radiation leak causes emergency evacuation.
Emergency evacuation causes the following deaths:
1. Rescue workers must stop and untold victims are abandoned left to die in nuclear disaster radiation evacuation zone.
2. Sick and elderly are stranded and left to die in nuclear disaster radiation evacuation zone.
And:
1. Radiation permanently ruins farms/homes/land destroying peoples lives causing suicide.
2. Radiation causes higher rates of cancer. Cancer causes death.
Therefore logically speaking and avoiding blame, if there were no nuclear disaster, these events would not have happened and these lives would not be lost. Nice and simple.
BTW, a 20 km radius of Fukushima Daiichi covers an area of about 628 square kilometers or 242 square miles (excluding the ocean). Do you think 1800 people can fit within that kind of area in a densely populated country like Japan? 1800/242 = 7.4 people per square mile. I know your math is probably as shitty as your reading comprehension, so I calculated that for you.
Your move, retard. :)