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Unity 4 Adds Linux Support

dartttt writes "After more than 14,000 votes by Linux users and efforts by Brian Fargo, Unity has added Linux support to their popular 3D game engine. Starting with Unity 4.0, Linux will be supported as a publishing platform allowing Unity games to be played natively on Linux. Only standalone desktop games will be supported initially. From the article: 'Unity Technologies, maker of a widely used video-game engine, today announced that its fourth-generation product will introduce new animation technology and extend its support for Adobe Systems' Flash Player, Linux, and Microsoft's DirectX 11.'"

150 comments

  1. No source? by Hatta · · Score: 5, Funny

    How about a kickstarter to liberate the source of Unity?

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    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:No source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never gonna happen. They license the source out for like $10,000.

    2. Re:No source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you'd need a pretty darn big kickstarter since these guys are bathing in money.

    3. Re:No source? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Informative

      Um.... do you have any concept of what that would cost? You'd have to be offering a huge pile of money. Right now they can commercially licence their engine for all sorts of projects. Even if those projects don't make money Unity can.

      Have a look at their people page, they have probably 110 employees. That's probably 12-13 million a year in revenue alone. Are you going to try and get a kickstarter for 100 million dollars to effectively shut them down, or to guarantee them income to keep working indefinitely?

      Don't get me wrong, there need to be more open source game tools (no matter how many you point me to there can always be more). As someone on the teaching side of things in trying to train game developers it's a real problem to know what tools you want to use, because the emphasis shouldn't be on the tools, but fighting with tools puts the emphasis on them. But Unity is pretty good about giving away a free trial, and being a good example of the sort of experience you'll have in industry, with some stuff opened up to you. That's about all we can hope for. Asking for a commercial engine that costs millions of dollars to make and maintain to just give up that kind of money is a pipe dream at best.

      Now, trying to get them to pull an id software and release old versions of the engine as open source (say release 2.0 or 3.0 when 4.0 goes live) might be a more realistic goal and would still be awesome.

      And by the way, you can negotiate your way into source code for Unity3D. I've never worked with anyone that thought it important enough to try until today, though. I literally advised a company this morning that Unity is probably their best bet for an engine given what they want to do, and they were wondering about source licences, which is the only reason I know that at all. Given that, it wouldn't be a huge shock to see old versions end up open sourced, if nothing else because you can't keep something bottled up indefinitely.

    4. Re:No source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you have industry experience, I have to ask, how much better can unity3d really be than say idtech3? Can't Linux Secs just use that? Doom3 still looks fantastic to me.

    5. Re:No source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't an industry experience, but I would imagine that it's not so much about the game engine as it is about the development environment, 3d designer and the whole toolchain...

    6. Re:No source? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      Depends on what you're trying to do.

      idtech3 gets you basically nothing on mobile, and it's content creation tools are... uh.... well lets be polite. They're mostly for a first person or 3rd person game. Which, to be fair, is a huge swath of the gaming business, but it's certainly not all of it. Trying to do a RTS is idtech3 would be harder than unity.

      A game engine is a LOT bigger than just the graphics engine, at least these days. You have AI, pathfinding (which may be a part of AI), building targets to different platforms, asset management, asset pipeline, collaborative build tools, world editing, level editing (if that's separate from the 'world'), and then support for platforms. And 7 years is an eternity in this business, so technology has plodded along. Even then, id probably used some either custom in house or purchased collaborative software management tools, which aren't really part of the 'game engine' but are the kind of thing that comes with most modern game engines. So sure, they have AI, and graphics and so on, but the whole toolchain, not as much, and not as diverse as unity.

      Unity is great for students because they can build a mobile project on their own phones. When they go to a job interview you whip out your phone and say "I made this" and pass it around.

      Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have idtech3 in the wild, but the tools are only really useful for solving the problem of building a first person shooter or similar, and it doesn't include support for a lot of the newer collaboration and world editing stuff that a newer engine would use.

      Then obviously are just the improvements in technology over the years (ambient occlusion, volumetric shadows, etc.).

    7. Re:No source? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Trying to do a RTS is idtech3 would be harder than unity.

      I'm not sure how it is hard at all. The game dll module is meant to be replaced... many modify it, but it doesn't need to be you, the single player, on a team, or vs. everyone else in a many player arena. The model/texture loading, collision detection, physics, camera manipulation, etc. should make it more than possible to do such. To me, that is most of the hard work.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    8. Re:No source? by allcar · · Score: 1

      How much is "like $10,000"?

    9. Re:No source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why not kickstart something that is already open source and (imho) has a pretty decent game engine like blender? http://www.blender.org/.

      When the BGE matures, I think it will really be something to reckon with.

    10. Re:No source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At one point I had a quote for the source (release ~2.6 I believe) in the neighborhood of $200-300k for commercial reuse (while looking for options to add OpenGL quad-buffered stereo rendering support). I don't recall if the license permitted releasing the source code to a third party though it's doubtful.

      It's (wasn't) too far out of reach (probably more now given the active user base). The underlying catch is the amount of work the Unity team puts in between releases/update: the 4.0 release with Linux support is a great example. After purchasing a release's source, it would be fairly far behind in development/features relative to Unity's current release by the time anything of much use could be accomplished.

  2. Good news everyone! by Linktwo · · Score: 1

    now devs and companies just have to click a few buttons and we got some games... hopefully

    --
    Laws and common sense still applies.
    1. Re:Good news everyone! by Zrako · · Score: 1

      now devs and companies just have to click a few buttons and we got some games... hopefully

      After you pay for the second copy :(

    2. Re:Good news everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've done one extended game jam with unity now. It started as a weekend project which was polished up afterwards. So about 16 hours of coding and design and another 24 odd hours of polishing between two people. I'd show you the game but the flash version is being auctioned off right now. Sorry. :)

      Overall I would say that it was remarkably easy. Though I would not attribute that to just being able to push buttons. There was a non significant amount of coding involved. And by that I mean, of the total of 80 hours (divided by two persons) available I spend 30 minutes in paint doing the art work. The remainder was code.
      What made it easy was the component model used by unity for it's game objects. It allows to easily prototype, create and reuse game objects. The IDE is setup with this in mind. And it really gets most of the crap out of the way. The major downside of Unity is the use of C# and MonoDevelop. In terms of usability they are just not up to scratch. Another downside is that for games above a certain profit margin, there is a Unity tax.

    3. Re:Good news everyone! by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it continues to bug me that MonoDevelop lags so far behind it's Windows origin, SharpDevelop, when one of the selling points of .NET is cross-platform code - surely you should just be able to build SharpDevelop for Linux...

  3. Great! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

    You mean Unity finally wont suck on Linux?

  4. Fuck yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    OMG! OMG! OMG! More proprietary software is coming to Linux!!! Fuck yeah!!!

    1. Re:Fuck yeah! by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Given the choice between having a proprietary option and having no options, I'll take the option to have proprietary software available every time.

    2. Re:Fuck yeah! by oakgrove · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you want Linux to ever be a remotely viable third choice on the desktop then proprietary software will be a given. If Android eschewed the presence of closed source apps it would be a non starter. Personally I don't have a problem with proprietary applications as long as the underlying operating system is Free. If the open source community isn't delivering for a particular niche then let the closed source people step in and first class games is a perfect example of this dynamic. If the community then steps up like has happened in so many other areas of software then even better but until that happens, I'll happily use unity on my Linux box right alongside my nvidia driver.

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      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    3. Re:Fuck yeah! by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 5, Funny

      You just made baby RMS cry.

    4. Re:Fuck yeah! by Microlith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well then he can weep, despite it moving one step closer to his goal. Actually, didn't he acknowledge that proprietary software on a Free platform was better than proprietary software on a proprietary platform?

    5. Re:Fuck yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want Linux to ever be a remotely viable third choice on the desktop then proprietary software will be a given.

      Proprietary software will get things there faster, but they will get there without it. Closed-source isn't some magic keystone to viability. 90% of the population could probably make do with open sores software, right now - I have been, for years.
      Having said that, if some program/app I want is proprietary, well made, works well on my system, doesn't coerce me into an income-protection model, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg up front, I don't mind paying for & running it. I've played UT/Doom/Quake until I'm sick of them, under Linux. I don't want to hear a whine, though, if/when an open sores project delivers a similar experience for customer-determined-value/donation/kickstarter.

    6. Re:Fuck yeah! by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2, Funny

      A hand job and a kick in the balls is better than two kicks in the balls.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    7. Re:Fuck yeah! by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Quick Internet search nets me a wikiquote page for him: (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman)

      Some GNU/Linux operating system distributions add proprietary packages to the basic free system, and they invite users to consider this an advantage, rather than a step backwards from freedom.

      Whether this is before or after something else he may have said is unknown.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    8. Re:Fuck yeah! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'll happily use unity on my Linux box right alongside my nvidia driver.

      Not me; Unity sucks and Shuttleworth can go shove it... oh, you mean this other Unity.

    9. Re:Fuck yeah! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's nothing really keeping anyone from developing and offering proprietary software for Linux. However, I do think one of the bigger impediments to it is the lack of standardization of Linux systems: should you offer .deb packages, .rpm packages, Slackware-style .tgz packages, or what? Instead, most proprietary software makers seem to end up making some horrible, nasty custom installer (usually some giant file named something.run) which installs stuff wherever it wants and doesn't integrate with the system whatsoever. Part of that is the fault of the proprietary software makers, for being in a Windows mindset (where they think they need an "installer"), but part is the fault of the Linux distros for not standardizing on a single package system. Package systems are a great solution to the whole problem of software installation, and are certainly better than the crappy software management system used in Windows; however, they only work that well if you actually use them, and if you have one piece of software that stomps all over your system installing pieces who-knows-where, then there's no way to revert it. But it's not so easy to get 3rd parties to use your package management system if they have to support 3 or more of them just to claim "Linux support". Slackware will probably never use a decent package manager for whatever reason, but the other distros could at least merge rpm and deb and end this problem.

    10. Re:Fuck yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1, options are always good.

      I personally avoid using proprietary software myself where possible and would certainly not use Debian's non-free repositories without a VERY good reason but I much prefer to support Debian rather than gNewSense.

      I'm pleased that there is another option for Linux users but I certainly have no intention of using Unity or even playing any games which use the Unity engine. Heck, I don't even use software written in Java; Unity has no chance. :p

    11. Re:Fuck yeah! by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      I think if publishers would release their software as an RPM package that conforms to the LSB standard and have all assets/libraries/binaries go into /opt with the icon in /usr/share/icons and the .desktop file in /usr/share/applications and make sure to bundle up all libraries necessary for the application to run then the problem would be solved. That's just my take.

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      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    12. Re:Fuck yeah! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, that wouldn't solve anything, because not all distros use RPM or follow the LSB "standard"; really, only Red Hat does. You can't exactly make something that's "Linux compatible" and it doesn't work out-of-the-box on Ubuntu, Debian, or its other derivatives.

      Bundling all the libraries needed as you say, or even statically linking them, however, would solve a lot of compatibility problems, even though it'd increase the size. Relying on other libraries to be installed is usually a recipe for disaster; either they're not installed, or they're some other incompatible version.

    13. Re:Fuck yeah! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      As long as something consistent is released, it will be repackaged with a simple wrapper (if existing conversion process implimented in "alien" utility won't do it already).

      The issue with packaging is completely bogus.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    14. Re:Fuck yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, though at this point, deb's appear to have become the de facto standard for many commercial vendors, so maybe a DEB package otherwise conforming to the LSB, then each distribution can have a simple utility to repackage in the format that applies to them according to some set rules. Of course I realize it's not quite that simple, the LSB doesn't cover everything, it doesn't even cover Qt or GTK, so some set of rules for those (for instance minimum version) need to be agreed to as well.

    15. Re:Fuck yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some fields the (F)OSS community plays catch-up. Gaming are one of those. We need commercial proprietary software in the short run to manifest a viable Linux gaming platform in the long run. Without the buzz: We need to prove to vendors that games on Linux will make them money..

      Personally, I use the nVidia proprietary driver atm, because it gives me a better experience than noveau. My GF uses noveau because she can't be bothered (to re-install after every kernel update). Eventually I expect the difference to be minor, and then I'll start using noveau. Please release more specs, hw vendors, so we can continue to buy your hardware!

      Communication is key on the road towards the greater goal of RMS.

    16. Re:Fuck yeah! by voidphoenix · · Score: 1

      A hand job and a kick in the balls is better than two kicks in the balls.

      That would make a great sig. :)

    17. Re:Fuck yeah! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So you only want Linux to be usable by experts?

      Asking regular users to use alien is ridiculous.

    18. Re:Fuck yeah! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      That's what distribution maintainers do, not users.

      Are you really that stupid, or is it your job?

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    19. Re:Fuck yeah! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You seem to be a very stupid person. In case you didn't notice, this discussion is about proprietary software. By definition, proprietary software is NOT included in a Linux distribution, which consists of only Free (freely-distributable) software. The issue brought up 6 levels up by "oakgrove" is that proprietary software has to be usable on a Linux system to make it viable as a desktop system, like it or not. Since distros have zero control over third-party proprietary software, a Linux system would need to be easy for an end user to install that proprietary software on, just like end users today can fairly easily install proprietary software onto a Windows system. Asking end users to run an .rpm package through alien (which doesn't always work that well, esp. when distros can have markedly different ways of doing things, where to put things, etc.) is ridiculous.

    20. Re:Fuck yeah! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      You seem to be a very stupid person. In case you didn't notice, this discussion is about proprietary software. By definition, proprietary software is NOT included in a Linux distribution, which consists of only Free (freely-distributable) software.

      There is plenty of proprietary software with packages maintained by distributions -- the package is a wrapper over whatever the software vendor distributed. If possible, package downloads the file automatically, or (thanks, Oracle, for your idiotic policy) it asks the user to get and supply the file. Most proprietary software requires separate license configuration after binaries are installed, or software has to "call home" to download associated data -- those operations have nothing to do with packaging, as they are distribution-independent and often OS-independent.

      The issue brought up 6 levels up by "oakgrove" is that proprietary software has to be usable on a Linux system to make it viable as a desktop system, like it or not. Since distros have zero control over third-party proprietary software, a Linux system would need to be easy for an end user to install that proprietary software on, just like end users today can fairly easily install proprietary software onto a Windows system.

      Linux:
      "Select the package in package manager, press Install, open a web site in the browser, pay for the license, then click on the icon and enter the license code".

      Windows:
      "Open a web site in the browser, download giant setup package for your particular flavor of Windows, run it, answer idiotic questions about options and destination directory, choose licensing in the browser, pay for the license, then click on the icon and enter the license code".

      From the end-user viewpoint Linux procedure is shorter and safer.

      Asking end users to run an .rpm package through alien (which doesn't always work that well, esp. when distros can have markedly different ways of doing things, where to put things, etc.) is ridiculous.

      I have just told you that it's not users who are supposed to run those utilities, and yet you are still "discussing" your own fantasy. You are spewing bullshit in hope that someone will take it for a valid argument -- a clear indication of a paid shill.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    21. Re:Fuck yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What package ? In what package manager? No sane commercial software developer should or will every give up control of distribution of their software to a bunch of F/OSS zealots. To think that they will, makes you a retard.

      Besides which.. good luck distributing multi-gb software like games through a repository. Most of the repositories suck at basic tasks like allowing multiple simultaneous downloads/ pausing / skipping downloads etc.

      This is just one of about 100 different things wrong with Linux install process in general and the problems average users face.

      You are spewing bullshit in hope that someone will take it for a valid argument -- a clear indication of a paid shill.

      OR.. just to think outside the box for a minute, its YOU that didn't get the point being discussed and are spewing your own bullshit. I know ! What a crazy thought ! Though, its well established that insane people don't think they're insane.

    22. Re:Fuck yeah! by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      What package ? In what package manager?

      Don't pretend to be stupid.

      No sane commercial software developer should or will every give up control of distribution of their software to a bunch of F/OSS zealots.

      Microsoft Core Fonts and all proprietary graphics drivers, among other things. Every piece of Microsoft software that is installed by winetricks.

      Software vendors now produce installers for Windows -- those installers are given to the users, and run on whatever insane installation of Windows those users have. Following your logic, that could not possibly happen because vendors would not want users to run their installers.

      In reality, unless vendor specifically disallows any external installers from touching his binaries, someone writes an automated procedure for it and, if anyone cares, wraps it into a package.

      To think that they will, makes you a retard.

      No, it makes you a failed astroturfer.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  5. How much effort is needed by the developer now? by oakgrove · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now that the engine is ported, how much additional effort is required by the developer to make their game run on Linux? A lot? A little? I'm readily curious.

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    The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    1. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by gman003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Depends. I've never used Unity, but I have used UnrealEngine, Source and idTech, and I've done some light reading on it before.

      The most common scenario will probably be "needs some shaders re-written to work with Linux's outdated drivers", assuming, of course, that they'd already written GL shaders (and not just D3D). Best-case, all they need to do is check the "Export for Linux" box right next to the "Export for Android" and "Export for XBLA" boxes.

      However, it should be *possible* to make a Unity game that requires a ton of work to port. Either because you actively tried, or because you didn't use the engine to it's full potential and instead re-implemented half the functionality in system-specific ways. Think of Android - you *can* write native apps that don't run on non-ARM (or even only specific ARM) processors, but that's not exactly common.

      Of course, engine support historically hasn't translated into game support. UnrealEngine 2 supported Linux (think 3 does as well), as did several idTechs (even before being open-sourced), and yet we only rarely see games using those released for Linux. Although it may be a matter of how *good* the Linux support is - many of those may have required far more work than more modern engines.

    2. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      They mention that this is coming straight out of their labs so I would guess a lot of effort will be needed.

      No ship date at this time so there is still time for them to drop that feature.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    3. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by evil_Tak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, Unity's surface shaders are more or less 3d-system-agnostic. Some features will of course degrade when the underlying system doesn't support them, and some, although supported, will be too intense for the hardware (e.g. fog on mobiles).

      It is of course possible to create a platform-dependent game: in fact, it's as easy as File.ReadAllText("C:/Windows/blah").
      However, the majority of real content that has been tried has run out of the box with no major issues.

    4. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by tigeba · · Score: 1

      When you are talking about switching between "like" platforms, for example Windows Standalone -vs- OSX Standalone -vs- Soon-to-be-Linux standalone the changes can be very minimal or almost nothing. My experience with the Windows/OSX standalone builds is that you can sometimes deploy with zero changes. The most common issues that seem to crop up are related to custom shaders.

      I maintain a bunch of games and demos that we use as examples for our networking middleware, and they basically never need platform customizations for Windows/OSX. The Linux client isn't available yet but I would assume that it would be quite similar.

    5. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by nschubach · · Score: 2

      Considering Wasteland 2 was promised to Linux users that backed it... and that they were working with the Unity team to permit Linux support... I'd say it's probably a fair conclusion to say that it will ship. If they decided not to ship it, there would be quite a few upset people on the whole Kickstarter process, inExile, and everyone involved.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    6. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that the engine is ported, how much additional effort is required by the developer to make their game run on Linux? A lot? A little? I'm readily curious.

      It really depends on the game. The Unity engine does a pretty good job of abstracting away platform differences but obviously that doesn't apply to absolutely everything. It's certainly possible to make stuff that is tied to specific platforms in Unity, like e.g. integrating with OS native libraries. That said, most of the games we've tested with the Linux player so far (none of which were designed with Linux in mind), generally, just work.

      So the short answer is: Probably little to none.

    7. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by dubbreak · · Score: 1

      I'd second the minimal or almost nothing. I tend to target Android (and am extremely excited to target Linux, as we may move some embedded stuff to it) and have 0 problems targeting Win/Mac desktop or even web for testing. With a different screen aspect ratio I may have to tweak things a little (as we have stuff set up for the android tablet aspect) but other than that stuff just works.

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    8. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Now that the engine is ported, how much additional effort is required by the developer to make their game run on Linux? A lot? A little? I'm readily curious.

      That depends on whether it really is native or just another Wine port. The latter isn't much effort, but also isn't Linux.

    9. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "needs some shaders re-written to work with Linux's outdated drivers", assuming, of course, that they'd already written GL shaders (and not just D3D).

      What? Get with the times, the future is here, man. Check out MojoShader.

        http://icculus.org/mojoshader/

    10. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by slart42 · · Score: 1

      Unity on Linux will be a native Linux binary. For games designed to run on desktop systems, the porting "effort" should be no more then clicking a button -- unless you use custom C++ libraries. All the game logic in Unity is implemented in mono bytecode, and the graphics already use OpenGL on OSX (you generally don't need to write platform specific shaders in Unity, as shaders are cross compiled to the target platform).

    11. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Porting is a lot more than graphics. If you can change to Linux audio/keyboard/mouse support or screen/viewport configurations by the click of a button, I want that button.

    12. Re:How much effort is needed by the developer now? by slart42 · · Score: 1

      Porting is a lot more than graphics. If you can change to Linux audio/keyboard/mouse support or screen/viewport configurations by the click of a button, I want that button.

      Get Unity 4 when it comes out, and you will have that button. Unity abstracts all of what you listed, so you won't have to deal with any of it when developing games in Unity.

  6. next: steam for linux by tracius01 · · Score: 1

    cool more game for Linux! it seems that some companies in the game industry take notice of Linux and it's market

    1. Re:next: steam for linux by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

      cool more game for Linux! it seems that some companies in the game industry take notice of Linux and it's market

      Was that an accidental typo or very clever satire?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:next: steam for linux by tracius01 · · Score: 1

      a wannabe joke! but seriously I'm glad that unity has Linux support

    3. Re:next: steam for linux by robmv · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think this trend is being forced by proprietary OS vendors, Valve should be threatened by the Windows 8 Market that is locked (for Metro applications only, for now) and the prospect of a locked down OS X. If that future of entirely lock down stores arrive, Steam will be dead soon. That is the only reason they are looking for an exit on the Linux market.

    4. Re:next: steam for linux by tracius01 · · Score: 1

      Valve doesn't have any power and can't force game companies to port their games to Linux

    5. Re:next: steam for linux by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      It would be especially funny if Linux got a boost from software producers being worried about platform lock-in rather than users, but I think these businesses can see the future a bit more clearly than the average user who seems to think walled gardens are wonderful things. Of course, the users don't see where that extra 30% of their money is going.

    6. Re:next: steam for linux by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      On desktop Linux, no. But they can make a Steam console, and Linux would be a natural choice for that.

    7. Re:next: steam for linux by tracius01 · · Score: 1

      yes this is the answer!! valve should enter in console businesses.

  7. Ubuntu Unity GUI finally works on Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pics or GTFO!

    1. Re:Ubuntu Unity GUI finally works on Linux? by TheCRAIGGERS · · Score: 1

      Pics or GTFO!

      It said nothing of the GUI working on Linux, only that the games would.

    2. Re:Ubuntu Unity GUI finally works on Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To clarify: The Unity Editor (the application you develop games with) will not be supported on Linux with this release.
      The engine's GUI system (the feature you use to make in-game GUIs) will, of course, be supported on Linux.

    3. Re:Ubuntu Unity GUI finally works on Linux? by PerfectionLost · · Score: 1

      WOOSH

    4. Re:Ubuntu Unity GUI finally works on Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly no. It is still Ubuntu only.

  8. great! by Torvac · · Score: 1

    this could encourage others to support linux with their engines

  9. Question by oakgrove · · Score: 1

    Since games like shadow gun run on Android and make use if the unity engine, want unity essentially 'ported' to Linux anyway? I mean I'm sure it is native code on Android and not just Java.

    --
    The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    1. Re:Question by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      It's not the kernel that matters. It's the userspace part. So, no, it wasn't ported to X11 desktop Linux anyway.

    2. Re:Question by Microlith · · Score: 1

      The problem are the APIs used on Android generally don't line up to anything you normally find on non-Android Linux platforms. The entire JNI setup, for instance, isn't necessary on non-Andorid platforms. Instead you need to work through Xorg (X11) and deal with the standard *nix user space and not whatever Android supplies instead.

    3. Re:Question by gman003 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not the kernel, it's the libraries. That's really all a game engine does - it takes all the libraries and presents a simple interface to them, while integrating the asset tools (ie. model file formats, etc.)

      On Windows, almost everything you need is in DirectX. Same for the XBox - it's pretty much the same library. Graphics, audio, networking, input, it's all there except a basic AI library and physics simulation.

      On OS X, there's a bunch of less integrated APIs. OpenGL for the graphics, some proprietary library for input, and so on. iOS uses mostly the same libraries.

      Android also uses OpenGL, but has it's own, different libraries for pretty much everything else. The same is true for the non-Microsoft consoles - either OpenGL or the OpenGL ES, and custom proprietary crap for everything else.

      Linux, again, uses OpenGL. But that's about it as far as "common code". Want to tell if Mouse3 has been pressed? Need new code. Want to play a sound? New code.

      Now, it's not quite as bad as it seems - most of the engine is, in fact, the "turn basic libraries into something that does all the work for you", and the renderer *is* the biggest library bit, but it's still quite a bit of work to go from Android to Linux.

    4. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most serious games on Android, don't use JNI except for callbacks into the Android framework. And given the state of the NDK for Android, few games require callbacks/upcalls, if any, back into the Android framework. Meaning, most of it is native C/C++ code and libraries, basically running natively on top of Linux, whereby Android simply becomes a fancy launcher.

    5. Re:Question by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the complete different graphics and audio layers and APIs that Android has versus a desktop Linux? The game code won't care but the OS-specific code that Unity uses to target the platform is not just transferable between Android and a desktop Linux.

    6. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post is largely incorrect.

      Thanks to the availability of Android's NDK, you can develop applications which basically run directly on top of Linux. As such, most any native Linux C/C++ application and/or game which leverages OpenGL can be made to run on Android. Generally all that is involved is some glue code to allow Android to launch the application. And since the NDK has progressed nicely, for those applications which want the functionality and don't care about Dalvik/Android portability, you can basically run right on top of Linux - with some limitations.

    7. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess what? There's common libraries that you can use, like OpenAL and SDL, that takes a lot of burden off of porting code. You can even use OpenGL code on Windows.

    8. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. There are a lot of generic libraries for other things. First of all:
      Like... you know... POSIX!!! That alone already does the whole basic OS feature range.
      Like SDL for input and (simple) sound. And OpenAL for (a bit better) sound. (And the only better sound is Creative’s proprietary EAX anyway, so they can fuck themselves.)

      Other than File access, graphics, sound and input, what else do you need?
      Maybe OpenCL. but that's also already platform-independent.
      Maybe location APIs. But those only make sense on mobile devices, and there is no dominant standard anyway, except maybe if you use Java.

      So what exactly is the problem... except for wilful ignorance?

    9. Re:Question by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      So what exactly is the problem...

      Microsoft removing all that easy cross-platform stuff in the next version of Windows :)

    10. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seemingly, millions of lines of code, which was formerly running on Macs and Linux, imply you don't know anything about the subject matter.

      Any properly written code will abstract away most things. The things which are classicaly non-portable are things which require input and output. Most everything else is portable and is basically using Linux/POSIX.

    11. Re:Question by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Graphics is the most involved and expensive part of a game engine by far. OpenGL-everywhere is huge.

      Also note: it's actually OpenGL ES 2 on Android which in general a subset of OpenGL 3 rather than classic OpenGL. In short, stick to DrawArrays and friends and you're good, which you should do anyway for performance reasons.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    12. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Giving fuel to RMS' arguement that it should be called GNU/Linux. Linux is a kernel, not an OS

    13. Re:Question by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2

      Just to be clear there is a LOT that goes on under the hood beyond DX/OpenGL calls and AI.

      A substantial part of an engine involves efficiently managing all of that data so only subsets of the data are getting streamed/updated at any given time.

    14. Re:Question by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Input. Input is the big one, because, as far as I can tell, EVERY operating system does it differently. Sure, for stuff like a web browser or text editor, you might be able to rely on relatively common stuff, but for low-latency and especially for gamepad/joystick input, there's really no good way.

      Linux has SDL. Which is a bit crap, actually, so you don't use it for big-name games unless you have no better option.

      Windows has DirectInput, which I believe is also used on the X360.

      OS X is apparently a mess of small libraries; I wouldn't know myself, as I've had a royal bitch of a time just trying to get an IDE working on OS X.

      Andoid has it's own system. iOS has it's own system. Every console has it's own, incompatible, system.

      Oh, and if you're thinking the consoles give you a POSIX interface, I'd like to know what you're smoking and who your dealer is, because that must be some great stuff.

      One last thing: OpenGL may *run* on Windows, but it doesn't run *well*. You generally get a 10% performance decrease just because the drivers are much worse at OpenGL than they are at Direct3D (mainly because far more games use the latter than the former (mainly because the drivers are much worse at OpenGL than they are at Direct3D (mainly because far more games use the latter than the former (ERROR: INFINITE RECURSION DETECTED)))).

    15. Re:Question by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I guess I did sort of misrepresent that. I was a bit rushed at the end there, boss was looking over my shoulder.

      For an analogy /. would understand, think of a game engine as Webkit, except in full 3D, rendering millions of elements every frame (and if you EVER dip below 30FPS there will be hell to pay). Oh, and half the elements have to think for themselves, and you have to run on everything more powerful than a wristwatch, and you have to have an integrated IDE that handles large-scale level geometry, high-detail models, textures (diffuse, normal, and specular maps, for starters), and code.

      And you'll need to rewrite it from scratch every 4-8 years because the new consoles came out.

      For another analogy /. would enjoy, think of a game engine as being sort of like a car engine...

    16. Re:Question by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Thanks to the availability of Android's NDK, you can develop applications which basically run directly on top of Linux. As such, most any native Linux C/C++ application and/or game which leverages OpenGL can be made to run on Android.

      He specifically pointed out that OpenGL is exposed directly. But there are other things in a game - sound, input etc - and all those have their own platform-specific APIs in Android, even with the NDK.

    17. Re:Question by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Go get any book on Operating System design. It will be entirely about the operating system kernel. Why? Because that is the operating system. Userspace and libraries are not the operating system, that is an operating system distribution. From Wikipedia: "An operating system (OS) is a set of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common services for computer programs. The operating system is a vital component of the system software in a computer system. Application programs require an operating system to function." See, it's the kernel. In some cases some userspace support could be defined as part of the OS too, for example udev in Linux. But this idea that IOS or Android are operating systems because they come with some of their own branded different libaries... that is marketing newspeak, pure and simple.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  10. Gnome + Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought this was another "gnome 3 is horrible" post. It's so horrible that after a few releases it NOW supports Linux.

  11. This makes Unity more cross-platform than Flash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nt

  12. Unity compatibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is Unity compatible with Ubuntu Unity? Does one allow to kill the other?

    1. Re:Unity compatibility by Molt · · Score: 1

      Recently I've been developing applications using the Unity game engine whilst working on the server back-end on an Ubuntu VMWare virtual machine, running Unity while having Unity via Unity did feel strange.

      --
      404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
    2. Re:Unity compatibility by allo · · Score: 1

      and what about the unity matrix?

  13. Re:Article is misleading. by Jeng · · Score: 1

    It is not misleading, it is only misleading if you are a moron.

    It should have taken you a whole 3/4 of a second to realize that it was not the Unity you expected and is instead a different Unity.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  14. GameMaker for Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we get some GameMaker up in here?

  15. Re:AAA games ... for free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Humble Indie Bundle. Nuff said.

  16. Re:AAA games ... for free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently, Polyphony has just announced Gran Turismo as a Linux-only title - the preview is already up on Youtube: GT6

  17. haet those guys by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    The community needs to, err, unify Unity and Unity if we're ever going to advance the cause.
    Except for UNITY. splitters !

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  18. Valve? by pipy · · Score: 1

    It makes perfect sense for Valve to buy and opensource Unity to get more games for their upcoming Linux-based game console.

    1. Re:Valve? by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      How would that make them money? The steam for linux store is going to be about selling software, not giving it away for free. What do you need steam for at all if you're giving it away for free? They aren't in the business of running a pile of servers for charity.

    2. Re:Valve? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      I think the parent's point is that Unity is a good tool and if Valve bought at and released the *tool* the result would be more (presumably payware) games that run on Steam.

    3. Re:Valve? by Canazza · · Score: 1

      Or they could not buy it, and let people do what they're doing already, and still have the potential increase in payware games on Linux...

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
  19. Fina-fuckin-ly! The year of Linux on the desktop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which means Linux will be dead. (Because Joe Retard's idea of an ideal OS, which is an appliance that thinks for him, while he drools on the floor, is the complete opposite of a full computer with an efficient human-computer interface that is used for automating *your* work away.) Long live Linux!

  20. Re:Article is misleading. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't tell if trolling or truly stupid...

  21. Elop might like it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to use on the Nokia phones
    http://memegenerator.net/elop

  22. Why Unity Is Used by joetainment · · Score: 4, Informative

    As response to the above I can confirm that Unity is very much used because of the development environment, ease of use for 3D artists, and an incredibly simple tool chain that lets you target many platforms with one codebase. Art assets can be shared between platforms as well, or specified per platform.

    For these reasons, Unity is used a lot at small studios, particularly where gameplay is the main focus and the technology doesn't have to be cutting edge. Systems like Unreal and CryEngine are more powerful from a technology and graphics standpoint, but are not nearly as easy to use for small teams of developers.

    In particular, Unity's documentation, specifically its scripting documentation, is outstanding. The documentation for other systems is extremely rough by comparison.

    I have no affiliation with Unity3D, other than the fact that I've used the software in the past and like it. I know the facts I mention above because I've done consulting and training for many local game studios, many of which have used or are using Unity3D. Also, hundreds of my students currently work in the game industry (many in Vancouver BC) so I often hear about what's going on in local studios.

    1. Re:Why Unity Is Used by Canazza · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm on a small team who uses Unity for... well, they're not games in the strictest sense, more interactive flythroughs, and when I say small team, I mean there's me, a 3D modeller and an Interface Artist, and the Interface Artist rarely actually loads up Unity. He just passes me the graphics and I build the GUI.

      It's fantastically simple to use, if you're programming for it the hardest thing you'll probably need is a working knowledge of Vectors and Quaternions (and even then there's code samples out there for 90% of the stuff you'll want to do). Although the standard 2D GUI script is awful, but, again, there's code out there that bypass it entirely and can do UI's that can rival what Scaleform can do (there were actually rumours of Scaleform partnering with them to include it in the engine, don't know what happened with that tbh)

      You don't have much access to anything below game logic and file systems. For programming, you can use C# or a variant of Ecmascript to code on top of the Unity engine API and Mono (basically .NET 2.0), but you don't get access to the graphics pipeline. The closest you get is the shader language.
      You can use the same scripts to modify the Editor to do stuff too. As such there's loads of 3rd party assets in the store, from Scripts, to models, even entire editing suites (one of my favourites is the Strumpy Shader Editor that, as you can guess, gives you a graphical interface for building shaders). Some are pay-for (for which Unity gets a cut) and some are free (like Strumpy) and if you pay for enough cash and buy enough plugins you can probably forgoe actually coding anything at all. It turns the whole thing into a glorified map maker.

      It also uses a fair amount of middleware (like PhsyX and FMOD), which is why you'll never see it open source.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
  23. Re:Article is misleading. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And this is why the Ubuntu jerks named the product this way. They're trying to get respectability by riding on the coattails of a respectable company via customer confusion. This is the same reason rip-off companies that make counterfeit products always copy the packaging and look of the company they're trying to steal from. As always, it's the end user that suffers because of these scammers.

  24. I knew it!! by rikasa · · Score: 3, Funny

    I knew Linux could not be responsible for such a Desktop travesty! I wonder how much Shuttleworth was receiving to take the rap??

  25. Re:Article is misleading. by Jeng · · Score: 2

    Lets say that there is an article about Ford's term as Vice-President. Just because you thought about the motor company first that doesn't make the article misleading.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  26. Yay, we can move to Linux! by dubbreak · · Score: 1

    We run Unity for an embedded gaming solution (electronic gaming, think slots and similar machines). When I approached Unity at G2E they said they had it working on Linux (I suspect IGT or another big player in class 3 asked for it) but it wasn't released to the general masses. Linux is so much easier to manage than the alternatives and is much more cost effective.

    This also means you can run Unity games on the RaspberryPi or similar. Can't wait to make myself a Unity arcade cabinet based off the Pi or Rikomagic.

    --
    "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Yay, we can move to Linux! by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This also means you can run Unity games on the RaspberryPi or similar.

      When was the last time a closed source proprietary applicaiton was released for ARM Linux? You will get the architectures they deem profitable to support, no more, no less.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Yay, we can move to Linux! by WarpGiGA · · Score: 1

      Or pay them to do it!

  27. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by PerfectionLost · · Score: 2

    Honestly, I don't see how XBox could be losing money with the annual subscription. That said, I won't be renewing my subscription the second time around. I was really hoping windows media center would be a good thing for, you know, media. But as it turns out it blows, so I'm going to build a mini-atx computer to replace it.

  28. Great Day! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How wonderful! All 30 of the people who play games on Teh Lunix will be overjoyed! Sadly, only 2 of them actually buy software. But hey, I'm sure those numbers are very compelling for software devs to support Teh Lunix!

    1. Re:Great Day! by Molt · · Score: 1

      From reading the Unity forums it seems the customers are quite interested in the Linux support, they've seen the success of the Humble Bundle and want to see if they can manage anything similar themselves.

      --
      404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
    2. Re:Great Day! by deek · · Score: 1

      Let's examine the numbers. Real world numbers, not your sarcastic take on them.

      Look at the latest Humble Bundle. They have a pie chart breakdown of Windows / Mac / Linux user purchases. Peeking into the html source, you'll discover that the percentage of Linux purchases was 10.14% .

      Total purchases was 598,995. Therefore the number of Linux users _purchasing_ the Humble Bundle is 60,738.

      Furthermore, look at the average price paid by Linux users. Note that it is significantly higher than the Windows average, and comfortably beats the Mac average. Combining this average number with the number calculated above, puts the total amount paid by Linux users as $759,225.

      That is very compelling for software devs. It shows that there are Linux gamers out there, plenty of them, and they're willing to pay.

  29. How to develop games with 0 nut shots? by tepples · · Score: 1

    So how do you recommend funding the development and publishing of a professional-quality video game with zero kicks in the gonads?

    1. Re:How to develop games with 0 nut shots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't develop it for Linux. Duh.

  30. Kerbal Space Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully this means we'll be seeing a nice flood of Unity games that have been waiting for the Linux support like Kerbal Space Program.

  31. Lesser of two evils by tepples · · Score: 1

    I believe Microlith was referring to RMS's statement linked from this story, which might be taken to mean that non-free games on a free platform are the lesser of two evils: "At least you avoid the harm to your freedom that Windows would do." He goes on to say something to the effect "instead of actually playing games, support these vaporware projects".

  32. X11/Linux by tepples · · Score: 1

    X.Org X11 Server is not part of the GNU project, and in fact, a GNU system need not be running any sort of window system at all. Some comments to other Slashdot stories have convinced me that if the sense is "GUI Linux but not Android", the term "X11/Linux" is probably more accurate.

  33. Control doesn't always translate perfectly by tepples · · Score: 1

    The things which are classicaly non-portable are things which require input and output.

    Every video game requires input and output. If your gameplay is finely tuned for a keyboard or joystick, then adapting it to a completely flat touch screen isn't necessarily a trivial matter. An on-screen gamepad isn't enough because the player can't feel where the buttons are without looking, a problem known since the Intellivision. For example, how would you adapt Super Mario Bros. to touch control? I tried playing the official Tetris® game for iPhone once, and I couldn't get even half the TPM (play speed) on it that I could get on Tetris DS.

    1. Re:Control doesn't always translate perfectly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I swear people on slashdot have become batshit crazy stupid.

      Your post literally adds nothing to the discussion and wonderfully proves you have no fucking clue about the subject matter. No one and I mean no one is porting games which require "finely tuned keyboard or joystick" to the Android or iOS platforms. That's not the type of game which fairs well in the segment.

      Beyond that, input is handled by the NDK and/or Android framework (the framework actually uses c libraries - shocking I know). Any good engine is going to have input abstracted away such that you're simply replacing one input abstraction with another. The bulk of any application is rarely input. In fact, in a game, input is normally a tiny, tiny, tiny faction of code or consideration. Generally, input is a deciding factor for game DESIGN and platform applicability. Thusly, picking a game which is unplayable for a given platform doesn't invalid anything I've said in this thread. Rather, it would mean the developer is an idiot.

      Long storty short, we are all dumber for having read all the non-anonymous contributes provided to this thread.

      Just out of curiosity, do you make it a habbit to sound like an idiot in real life by talking out your ass about things you clearly have no fucking clue? My guess is you, you likely are a real serious asshole who talks out their ass on a regular basis.

    2. Re:Control doesn't always translate perfectly by tepples · · Score: 1

      No one and I mean no one is porting games which require "finely tuned keyboard or joystick" to the Android or iOS platforms.

      EA is, and the game is called Tetris.

      But in general, to which platform should such a game be ported before the (smaller) developer becomes eligible for a console license?

  34. Excellent News For Sword Nerds by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Judging from the number of the "This had better run on Linux!" comments on Neal Stephenson's sword game Kickstarter campaign (they are likely to use Unity for CLANG), this should make some people happy.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  35. Re:Article is misleading. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not the same at all.

    The article used the name 'Unity,' not the title 'Unity 3D' (the official title of the software described in the article).

    It is misleading.

  36. Re:Article is misleading. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No it's not. That's the name of their domain name. Their product is just "Unity" -- So no, it's not misleading.

  37. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by flimflammer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are you being serious? Studios will continue to not target Linux for the foreseeable future and generally remain DirectX only. Unity of all things isn't going to change this. A DirectX only strategy is not "suicide" when the broad majority of your target user base uses DirectX. But really, you were probably just trolling or seriously delusional anyway.

  38. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Molt · · Score: 1

    Today Unity3D also announced that the next major release of the Unity game engine (Unity 4.0) will allow the developers to target DX11, I really don't think they're trying to affect DX/OpenGL so much as do what their customers want.

    --
    404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
  39. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Honestly, I don't see how XBox could be losing money with the annual subscription.

    XBox had a few quarters running in the black, not doing nearly so well right now, and not remotely close to payback on the original investment. Meanwhile the product is well past what should have been its end of life and the whole kooky charade has to play out all over again. If not for Balmer's personal pride this vanity project would have stopped providing subsidized gaming consoles long ago.

    Do you see it now? Not "losing money" but "already lost tons of money with no hope of getting it back now or ever".

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  40. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

    Hah, that's funny, Android is Linux. Anyway I said nothing about targeting Linux I talked about targeting OpenGL. Which has clearly got the high ground right now. Face it, DirectX is an oddity that is only walks the earth because Microsoft keeps pumping money into it, but that isn't enough.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  41. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    One more wall of fortress Microsoft crumbles. Game devs finally notice the way the wind is blowing, a DirextX-only strategy is suicide. OpenGL won and soon only the shrinking PC segment and money losing XBox will be left waving the DirectX flag. It's about time.

    And how does Microsoft respond? Sure, send in the Slashdot spinmods. Sheesh. Better you boys should do some honest work.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  42. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    Outside of mobile platforms where DirectX is actually a competitor, OpenGL will not overtake DirectX in use for the foreseeable future. Microsoft has never taken a strong interest in bringing DirectX to mobile platforms to begin with. DirectX flourishes just fine on the platforms Microsoft actually cares about it being on. You can tout your nonsense about the end being nigh for DirectX until your face turns blue, but it won't make it true. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.

  43. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    The presence of DirectX in the mobile space rounds to zero, and that is where the action is. Meanwhile, OpenGL has a foothold in or dominates every market except XBox, where Ballmer would rather eat a floppy disk than let anybody ship a game based on the graphics library he tried so hard to kill. Maybe Ballmer should have tried harder because failing in that evil project was a critical failure and no doubt will be the cause of much chair throwing in Redmond as the logical consequences play out.

    It verges on comical to hear you protest that Microsoft does not actually care about this. Well go ahead, your delusions are not my problem.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  44. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    One more wall of fortress Microsoft crumbles. Game devs finally notice the way the wind is blowing, a DirextX-only strategy is suicide. OpenGL won and soon only the shrinking PC segment and money losing XBox will be left waving the DirectX flag. It's about time.

    I can hardly wait for Slashdot to break the Microsoft Surface story so I can make fun of it.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  45. Largely because of Wasteland 2.. by Billlagr · · Score: 2

    I contributed to the Wasteland 2 kickstarter, and it was said all along that if/when it reached X dollars there would also be a Mac and Linux version. It easily passed that amount. In one of the follow-up newsletters, they stated that they had reviewed a number of game engines and chosen Unity, one of the reasons being that they had been working on porting it to Linux anyway and that there had been a substantial amount of work done already to that end, before being chosen for Wasteland 2. That and the development tools made it very easy to work with and they could put more resources into content, rather than creating/porting an engine and so on. (I don't have the email in front of me - so I'm going from memory)

  46. Re:AAA games ... for free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nuff said indeed. That's all there is to say.

  47. Re:Article is misleading. by slart42 · · Score: 1

    But Unity (the game engine) is actually just called "Unity", and not "Unity3d". The latter is commonly used to refer to it, because the website is unity3d.com, but the product is simply called "Unity", so the headline is correct in that sense. I guess it could have been more explicit by mentioning the words game engine in the title, though.

  48. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    You clearly don't understand the purpose of DirectX if you believe Microsoft is actually sweating OpenGL's current position in the mobile market. If Microsoft wanted DirectX to be more widespread in the mobile market, they would actually be trying to further that goal. They're not going to for the same reason they'll never bring DirectX to Mac or Linux: It's a platform specific library designed to bring in developers to the Windows platform. DirectX maintains its strong dominance over OpenGL in the Windows PC market, which is where the library is almost entirely based.

    I'm done trying to get this through your thick head. It's just not worth replying further.

  49. Liberated s/w on unliberated OS, or vice versa? by unixisc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, he very specifically did say that in one of his recent essays. He doesn't like this unliberated software, but he'd rather that it sleeps w/ his liberated OS, rather than an unliberated one.

    I actually tend to believe that the opposite choices are the way to go. Had the FOSS movements (not talking about just the FSF, but everybody involved in having source code automatically available w/ binaries) actually started w/ useful apps and making those liberated or open-sourced - things like Office Suites, Image & video editing software, Publishing software, financial software like and so on - that would have been better for FOSS as a whole. People would have gotten used to the likes of Open Office, GIMP, VLC and so on ages ago, just like they're used to Firefox and Chrome, and those would have been ubiquitous on computers. This would also have given these platforms the opportunity to get feature rich and customizable, letting people install either just the features they need, or all the bells & whistles.

    Once that was out there, it would have been relatively easier to migrate them to FOSS OSs, be it Linux, BSD, osFree, ReactOS, et al. The initial port may have been a bitch - all those API translations and so on - but once that was done & out of the way, making upgrades to say, Linux versions of FOSS titles would have accompanied the upgrades to Windows equivalents (incidentally, while on that subject, such software should not have to be re-written b/w different versions of glibc or GCC or GTK or Qt - once it's written in each library, it should automatically be supported by its successors). Only caveat I see - the business models behind these would have needed to be worked out, but aside from that, it would have ensured a much wider acceptance of FOSS. In other words, if these programs need to be sold, do it, so that the projects don't remain in the red.

    In short, what keeps FOSS from being widely embraced is its focus on lower layer s/w like kernels and userland utilities, rather than actual programs that end-users need. Stop making 20 text editors, 10 music players (KDE, I'm looking @ YOU), and so on, and actually produce the type of software that people need - be it things like Quickbooks, Photoshop & so on (close the gaps b/w GNUcash & Quickbooks, GIMP & Photoshop, Calligra vs MS Office and so on). Once those are successful, it will be easier to talk people into installing BSD or Linux or other FOSS OSs, since these titles can be ported there, given the availability of the source.

    1. Re:Liberated s/w on unliberated OS, or vice versa? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Had the FOSS movements (not talking about just the FSF, but everybody involved in having source code automatically available w/ binaries) actually started w/ useful apps and making those liberated or open-sourced - things like Office Suites,

      emacs, vi, vim, latex

      Image & video editing software

      Ok, GIMP lagged Photoshop to market by six years. However, it's worth noting Photoshop was the first in its class.

      Video editing? PCs really weren't up to snuff. I remember having to run an MPEG decoder in grayscale mode under Windows 3.1 just because decoding chroma made it run too slow.

      Publishing software

      LaTeX...which was (and is) a WYSIWYM editor similar in some respects to WordPerfect for DOS (remember that?), but was really a user-friendlier means of working with TeX, the standard bearer for publishing at the time.

      financial software

      Admittedly terribly lacking, currently. Discussion of this comes up again every year around tax season...

      VLC

      Go ask the VLC guys how easy it is to reverse-engineer codecs written at a time when everyone who needed FMV (so, game devs) built their own in-house, and where each revision of a game had changes to the codecs, and nobody wanted to use MPEG (too expensive). The precursors to Vorbis and Theora either weren't around, or hadn't caught on. (In fact, it wasn't until within the last decade when I spotted ogg files in a commercial game's media pack)

      Once that was out there, it would have been relatively easier to migrate them to FOSS OSs, be it Linux, BSD, osFree, ReactOS, et al. The initial port may have been a bitch - all those API translations and so on - but once that was done & out of the way

      So once you've completed one monumental effort of inventing products which hadn't been invented yet (or which were very new), on personal computers (which weren't yet widespread), and once you've completed another monumental effort (porting from DOS, DOS/Win32 and NT/Win32 coding styles and APIs to POSIX), then everything's easy. Except you want these monumental efforts to have occurred 20-25 years ago. And even if it had happened, it still wouldn't be easy.

      (incidentally, while on that subject, such software should not have to be re-written b/w different versions of glibc or GCC or GTK or Qt - once it's written in each library, it should automatically be supported by its successors)

      First, that, right there, is why Windows is incredibly bloated. It has an incredible amount of layered-in support for older model APIs.

      Second, most programs don't need to be modified to support newer versions of glibc, GCC, Gtk or Qt, except possibly in response to bumps in the major revision number. There hasn't just been a Gtk+, Gtk2 and Gtk3, there've been dozens of revisions of each. Programs that compile (or even link!) against revisions within the same major version set don't normally notice a difference.

      Third, understand that computer science and engineering knowledge is continually marching on. We're constantly learning and implementing new ways to do things better (R/W locks instead of simple mutexes, PIC, thread-local storage, RAII and garbage collection, embedding of domain specific languages, new ways to compute, new ways to communicate, new ways to interact with the user...), and enforcing backwards-compatibility constrains how efficient your product can be; can we keep the thing small? Can we keep the thing fast? Must we not use scalar floating-point operations because they want to use MMX, and our ABI's calling convention didn't guarantee the sanctity of that register over there?

      What about when hardware changes out from under you? With the introduction of SSE, Intel changed another CPU instruction (I don't remember which one...but I think it had to do with manipulating MMX like a

    2. Re:Liberated s/w on unliberated OS, or vice versa? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      emacs, vi weren't the type of apps I was talking about. I was talking about things like Libre-Office. In the KDE suite, I've noticed a lot of applets, but very often, a lot of them have duplicated fuctions, such as - in editors itself - Kate, Kedit, KJots, KWrite. Or, for multimedia, KPlayer, KMPlayer, Kaffeine, Dragon Player. Incidentally, for video editors, I was thinking something that's the equivalent of Microsoft Movie Maker, but the only ones I found were Cinerella and Avidemux, and they were too complicated & overkill. I discovered OpenShot Video Editor, but have yet to try it. Incidentally, VLC was just one example - there are plenty of others like I listed above, and then Totem and MPlayer.

      About LaTex, you may be right. I recall, when I would work on NeXTstations in college, some Adobe apps, like FrameMaker, were available there, and similarly, some other apps, like Lotus Improv were there as well. I think if the system has a rapid development environment, as NeXTstep did, it can attract a whole lot of apps.

      Financial software - GNUCash is admittedly there, but I doubt that they're so much into working w/ institutions like banks or brokerages than in just being a personal finance manager, which I guess is fine. However, I was thinking not so much about tax software, but rather, something like QuickBooks, which has nothing like it in Linux or BSD environments.

      I agree that those monumental efforts would not have been easy. However, my argument in my previous post has been that instead of spinning a gazillion different Linux and somewhat fewer BSD distros, people would have done better in pooling their efforts towards making liberated applicaitons software. Start it on Windows, by all means, but keep it open sourced, so that once the app was refined, it would then be a case of porting it to other OSs, rather than doing both porting and feature definition both @ the same time. Also note that in the timeframe you are talking about, Microsoft did come out w/ earlier versions of Office, so that was the time that the Open Source community could have focussed on writing word processors, databases, spreadsheets and presentation software that was open sourced. Note that there came a point where MS Office was simply good enough - Office 2003, and when MS tried to 'improve' it further, people started hating the changes. Similarly, an open source office, or even other apps software, after a certain number of improvements, would have been just right in terms of usage, and from that point onwards, spreading it to other platforms could have been a goal.

      On the bloat that you are talking about in Windows as a result of having to maintain compatibility, I'd argue that that's a good thing. Admittedly, even MS broke it when going from XP to Vista, but I'd argue that a good place to have broken compatibility, if it had to happen, was to break compatibility b/w 32-bit and 64-bit. As it is, apps had to be re-written for Windows 7, so the right place to have broken compatibility would have been going from 32-bit Windows to 64-bit Windows. But back to the question on the unix side of things, having sophisticated applications that use the above libraries, like Qt, GTK, glibc and so on break whenever the OS ships w/ changes to the userland is extremely disruptive.

      After all, even in the Linux world, distros don't usually maintain older versions except perhaps under LTS, and since the newer versions are 'free', they have a good reason not to. As a result, someone who's using, say, Mageia 1 today might decide to, for security updates, go to Mageia 2 (I just picked this distro @ random from distrowatch - use any that you feel like). In doing this transition, quite a few things change. GTK goes from 2.24.4 to 3.4.1. GLIBC goes from 2.12.1 to 2.14.1. GCC changes from 4.5.3 to 4.6.3. Qt goes from 4.7.3 to 4.8.1. The Linux kernel used goes from 2.6.38.7 to 3.3.6. I see what you said above about most programs linking or compiling just fine, but to use a phr

    3. Re:Liberated s/w on unliberated OS, or vice versa? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      I was talking about things like Libre-Office

      So I did a little digging. It looks like the first WYSIWYG functionality in personal computer appeared with the Apple Lisa in 1983, and WYSIWYG quickly made its way into the GUI releases of Word and WordPerfect around 1985. Still, this is 1985 we're talking about. You're lamenting the lack of consumer-oriented open-source desktop applications back at a time when any commercial enterprise trying to build and sell such a product was taking a huge risk. The reason Microsoft's mission statement was "a computer on every desktop" wasn't because the hardware was already there! Even Scott Adams mocked Microsoft for their motto in his 1995 book "The Dilbert Principle"; the concept was still seen as far-fetched even then.

      KPlayer, KMPlayer, Kaffeine, Dragon Player.

      Incidentally, VLC was just one example - there are plenty of others like I listed above, and then Totem and MPlayer.

      Reference as many different projects as you like, they sit on the shoulders of the same group of people who've gone to monumental efforts collecting samples, reverse engineering, documenting and reimplementing a massive variety of codecs. It doesn't matter what skin you put on the thing when the hardest part is the compression and decompression of undocumented multimedia formats.

      GNUCash is admittedly there, but I doubt that they're so much into working w/ institutions like banks or brokerages than in just being a personal finance manager, which I guess is fine. However, I was thinking not so much about tax software, but rather, something like QuickBooks, which has nothing like it in Linux or BSD environments.

      This is exactly what I thought you meant.

      I agree that those monumental efforts would not have been easy. However, my argument in my previous post has been that instead of spinning a gazillion different Linux and somewhat fewer BSD distros, people would have done better in pooling their efforts towards making liberated applicaitons software.

      Open source and free software isn't powered by some top-down, collaborative idea saying "hey, we need to all work together to do $x", it's powered by a bunch of people doing what interests them, for the reasons they're interested. There's no one, two or even three people who could say "everybody, pull in this direction" and get more than a few hundred people rallying behind them, and certainly not more than for a very limited period of time.

      Also, look at the reason the various distros exist. They're iterative technological improvements on previous packaging methodologies (Slackware in response to linux-from-scratch, RPMs in response to Slackware's tarballs, Apt in response to pre-yum RPMs, Portage in response to unoptimized and inflexible binary distributions), philosophical differences (Debian's DFSG as opposed to RH's more lenient policies, Ubuntu's pragmatism vs Debian's strict policies), role/niche-specific distros (FreeNAS, pfSense, netbook-targeted) or political (such as how OpenBSD split off from NetBSD because some of the core devs didn't get along with Theo, and he didn't want to jump through hoops to get work done. (If I read the historical conversations right))

      The core distros seem to continue on inertia and contributions from derivatives. Derivatives come and go as they experiment with basing themselves on different software...such as Mint's using Debian to build a rolling-release system.

      This is how competition, invention and improvement work; you have to allow for things to break into many overlapping pieces if you want to see which ones work, which ones don't, and which ones beat the pants off of everything that came before.

      I expect we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, because all of the solid intellectual reference on this is based in command economies vs free markets, an

  50. Re:DirectX takes one in the nads by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Microsoft cares about OpenGL to the extent that it allows users of non-Microsoft platforms to enjoy a high performance 3D gaming experience, and Microsoft hates that. Games are one of the few remaining areas where Microsoft is able to create a platform advantage, and that particular advantage is quickly eroding. So yes, Microsoft care about OpenGL, it is a strategic technology. Microsoft always knew that a healthy OpenGL would facilitate escape from its platform locking, and therefore tried very hard to kill it, and fortunately failed, but it was a close call. Microsoft never stopped caring about it, it just can't do anything about it, it already shot its multibillion dollar wad in the form of Xbox and now there are way way way more Angry Birds players than Halo players. Xbox just doesn't matter very much any more, and Microsoft killed its own PC gaming platform to try and make it matter.

    You know, it's getting boring talking about tired old monopolist thug Microsoft and its ruined plans. Talk to yourself about it next time, I'm moving on to something that matters.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  51. Oh, it's a game! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That explains why I didn't get it to work for me!

    Apparently, the most popular modes are Capture-The-Menu and Hidden-App-Minefield. And if your PC supports 3D, you can experience the 21st century blur effect that will cause your computer to hang, that should be familiar to MS Windows users.

  52. PLEASE bring Unity3D Web Player support! NASA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please bring Unity3D web player support so we can use NASA's "Eyes on the solar system" app !

    PLEASE my god please