Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Wins Congressional Backing For Do-Not-Track Default In IE10
An anonymous reader writes "Thought Do Not Track was strictly a geeks' issue? Think again. After Microsoft was slapped down for enabling DNT by default in Internet Explorer 10, the co-chairs of the US's Congressional Bi-Partisan Privacy Caucus have sent a strongly-worded letter to the W3C urging it to reconsider. As webdev360.com points out, it's an interesting (unprecedented?) example of Congress interacting with the standards body: 'Whether members of the [working group] will take kindly to the Representatives' interference remains to be seen. Ed Markey's legislative director, Joseph Wender, has brought the letter to the attention of the group's mailing list, but, as of the time of writing, he hasn't received any replies.'"
If they don't change their ways, they may get another strongly worded letter about it!
I am officially gone from
Think this ties in well with another story from a bit earlier: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/20/0421210/cnet-idc-find-rapid-increase-in-behavioral-data-tracking
-1 troll is not supposed to be used simply because you don't agree
why don't they make it into a law that you have to have a "TRACK ME PLEASE" cookie for it to be legal to track your flow through multiple domains..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
While I applaud MS for their privacy efforts, I am cynical, and I largely see this as a marketing move on their behalf. They've seen how Google has copped some flak over privacy concerns, and it's obvious they want to position themselves as the privacy-respecting alternative. But I have no doubt that if Bing and Microsoft's cloud services become as popular as Google's, they will mine every last bit of data they can get their hands on.
They're all as bad as each other, says I.
Does anyone have any idea why the W3C opposed this? It seems like a no-brainer.
Never thought I would stand with MS over the W3C, but there you have it.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Unless they're planning on adding the force of law to the DNT bit, all this will do is make advertisers ignore it (and, they could argue, rightfully so since they couldn't be certain that people turned it on of their own volition).
Microsoft could pop up a dialog asking, but even then, who exactly is going to click "yes, track me"? Perhaps they should get together with some people from the advertising industry to come up with some fair copy that explains the benefits (targeted ads mean that you receive ads that will more likely interest you, after all) and drawbacks of cross-domain tracking, to ensure a semi-educated choice on the part of users.
If they just turn it on and don't ask about it though, expect it to be yet another technology extinguished by poor Microsoft engineering decisions. (I was kinda hoping we were past that, guys.)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
While playing closed-minded open-source Microsoft-bashing zealot on Slashdot is, in the eyes of many here, a route to being cool -- if you want to know, you could always use Google, Bing, or just run Fiddler and look for yourself.
The protocol is fully documented by Microsoft and not hard to find if you have some keyword ninja skills and a search engine.
Chrome just overtook IE in marketshare and Google uses Chrome to track user's browsing habits for the purpose of targeted advertising. Making the Do-Not-Track policy the default for web browsers would hurt Google a lot more than it would hurt Microsoft, not to mention drastically reduce Google's incentive to continue pumping money into Chrome's development. While I like the idea of not being tracked by default, I hope it doesn't cost me future development of my favorite browser.
Now they are testing the W3C. Do not track is a popular and easily understandable topic so they can make people believe that they know better than an independent standards organisation.
Seriously, I don't give two squirts from a rat's ass about whether or not browser-X enables DNT by default. I can turn it on myself just fine.
If Markey and Barton want to actually do something, how about some legislation requiring companies to honor the DNT flag?
Oh, right - That would actually risk backlash from their corporate owners. Instead, they get to look like the good guys right before heading off to a night of hookers and blow sponsored by DoubleClick.
The system hasn't broken - The system simply never had any intention of working for us. For the next run, we need to do away with both "incorporation" and any private funding of elections.
While there were some finer points to the case, how does all that fit in with the FTC investigating Google's 'circumventing' of Safari's 'privacy' options?
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/05/04/2156218/google-facing-ftc-fine-over-safari-privacy-breach
Re-read my post. It's not what is being sent, it is what's being kept and tracked.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
'jew' only to a degree that I had a Jewish grandmother, sure, Russian? To a degree that I was born in the former USSR and speak the language.
By the way, your comment, it shows insane amount of ignorance. First of all Russia has a naval base in Syria, so for USA to attack Syria is a similar situation to Russia attacking Mexico.
Secondly, it is retarded to believe that Israel will be a winner in this situation, unless you are asleep, you should have noticed that USA is bankrupt, which means USA cannot actually conduct another world war, and it wants a world war. Attacking Syria may eventually get Iran and Russia involved in this, and if that happens, then watch China and Pakistan and eventually Europe get into the conflict. Is Israel going to survive something like that, given that America's economy is hanging by whatever charity that China is still providing? I doubt it.
You can't handle the truth.
Re-read my post. It's not what is being sent, it is what's being kept and tracked.
Look at the protocol. They can't keep more than is in there.
then the spec is worse than useless. I admit I did not read it. My current understanding is this is just a stupid cookie.
I have a better proposal. Why not make it easier for users to block "third-party" cookies, i.e. cookies sent from domains different from the current page domain. *That* would block advertisers from tracking you. Also, a javascript hook triggering a nice UI for OpenId sites to ask users if they want to whitelist them for login purposes.
Check out my cross-platform apps
... how much Congress is in the pockets of US corporations.
Microsoft may have certain patents on business models that will be enhanced in value if freewheeling competitive models are squelched.
I hate to be cynical, but corporations rent-seeking to hamper competition is the problem, not the solution.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
AWStats doesn't 'track' you, it simply counts some numbers up from log files. It can't tell you what I bought last tuesday at a participating retailer.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Awe, 12 year olds with 'tude are so cute.
Lets see, one of them is the company that makes the software ... so they actually DO DECIDE the defaults, its really screwed up that you're too stupid to get that part.
The other one helped create the specification we're discussing ... so again, they have a little bit of a clue about it.
Basically both authorities are about 10 million times more qualified to discuss YOUR software defaults than YOU are apparently.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
The entire world uses Israel to keep the middle east destabilized so they don't band together and become a problem by controlling oil reserves. No one is going to let anything serious happen over there, and if it did, you have Israel with American military equipment (undisputed second best in the world), which they've upgraded, oh, and they've been fighting with it their entire lives against everyone around them. I wouldn't want to see America fight Israel, I'm fairly certain if they were unleashed they'd have no problem walking across most of the middle east and owning it in about 2 weeks. You need to take a look at history. Israel is not someone you want to deal with when they aren't on their leash.
Its cute that you think anyone outside the middle easy cares about anything more than oil, but its really sad that you're that disconnected from reality.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Want to bet that this opt-out doesn't apply to any of the apps Microsoft bundles with Windows RT / 8?
Because their job is to help standardize browser features?
I may be about to open up a shit storm upon myself but this needs to be said. I'll hold my hands up and say I am an internet marketer (aka SEO & the rest to those who have heard of it) and I know the majority of people hate advertisements especially here on my much loved /. but it's kind of needed unless folk would like a pay wall on every website?
In regards to tracking this is useful to create more relevant ads (usually), it's not perfect I'd admit but unless you want to let us marketeers to read your thoughts that's the only way it'd be truly relevant. However if you think marketing is annoying at the moment imagine what it'd be like if we couldn't track anyone to supply the current type of advertisement. We'd have to resort to TV style adverts or pay walls on every website. So tell me do you prefer the current adverts on Slashdot or would you prefer a 3 minute video every time you came here?
If marketeers can't target specific people in specific(ish) ways we'd have to resort to the broader style of marketing and I would hate the web if it became like that.
The latest draft of the standard states "[a]n ordinary user agent MUST NOT send a Tracking Preference signal without a user's explicit consent." Having it set by default, without any input from the user, violates that. That seems about as simple as you can get. The real question should be whether or not that wording belongs in the standard.
As other commenters have said, I feel that enabling it by default would have a dramatic impact on advertisers. I feel that they'd be more willing to accept a few individuals explicitly turning it off, rather than every clueless user automatically having it turned off by default. It's simply compromising with the advertisers - if we ask nicely, they're more likely to respect our wishes. If we just say everyone everywhere doesn't want this, they're more likely to have a problem with that and simply ignore DNT settings altogether.
And just like a few people have mentioned, if the IE10 first-run wizard asked whether or not you wanted to enable it, it would no longer violate the standard and W3C should have nothing to say about it. Again, demonizing tracking in this dialog could result in a huge hit to advertisers, which again would make them less likely to honor the DNT setting altogether. As a compromise with advertisers, it would probably be best to explain that tracking may give you more relevant ads and such, while enabling DNT would give you more privacy. Simply asking, "Do you want to be tracked?" with no other details probably isn't the best way to handle it.
Until there are laws requiring companies to honor DNT, pissing off the advertisers over it will simply result in them not honoring it at all.
It doesn't apply to any tracking Microsoft does because even though they've gone so far as the standard-breaking client-side DNT-by-default in IE10, they don't support DNT at all server-side on the sites they operate that track user data.
On the street, everyone says they want fair government. In the voting booth, everyone says they don't care.
On the street, everyone says they don't want to be tracked. In the preferences window, everyone says they don't care.
When you say most people do not want to be tracked, I just don't know whether or not to believe you. You understand my confusion, don't you?
My fellow Americans, you have public and informal passion, yet you have private and formal apathy. Weird. I thought we were all trying to act cool and unconcerned on the outside while secretly harboring inner terror and desperation. WTF. Am I doing everything backwards, or are you?
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Which is way more than what your cookies gives away, including your complete list of software installed, MS specific information on licensing, and other bits of information which gives Microsoft the ability to track you via the IP address used to contact the Windows Update servers.
So how much of this is being kept, and for how long? Would you care to share?
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
and this can be bypassed rather easily by
1 grab an update set using WSUSOFFLINE
2 use that media to do your updates
3 and an undisclosed number of OTHER computers
4 rinse and repeat as needed
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
I would bet that even if it was later set to ON (from default OFF) some advertisers would say
But we recorded you on 09/15/2012 at 15:24.35 as opting IN to our program and our policy is to not recheck past the first time.
so whenever a browser dumps and has to be reloaded (and the settings reset) there is a window that could be used.
Plus what happens if DNT is set to ON does the previous data need to be erased??
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
So why can't I have Do Not Track as default for that as well?
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
microsoft loves to track its users and compile lots of user/usage data... and not just browser users.. DNT on by default makes them look like the good guys.. when we know they aren't.
similarly...
google makes more than some countries' GDP using user tracking data to maximize their profits. adding DNT to chrome makes them look like the good guys.. when we know they aren't.
smoke and mirrors.
___
DNT relies on compliance by the web site and server operators -- something that cannot be forced, legislated, or even audited...
DNT is WORTHLESS. a nice idea in concept, but is impossible to implement.