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Sandia's Floating, Dust-Free, Spinning Heatsink

An anonymous reader writes "Sandia Research Laboratory believes it has come up with a much more efficient solution than heatsink-fan cooling a CPU that simply combines the heatsink and fan components into a single unit. What you effectively get is a spinning heatsink. The new design is called the Sandia Cooler. It spins at just 2,000 RPM and sits a thousandth of an inch above the processor. Sandia claim this setup is extremely efficient at drawing heat away from the chip, in the order of 30x more efficient than your typical heatsink-fan setup. The Sandia Cooler works by using a hydrodynamic air bearing. What that means is when it spins up the cooler actually becomes self supporting and floats above the chip (hence the thousandth of an inch clearance). Cool air is drawn down the center of the cooler and then ejected at the edges of the fins taking the heat with it. And as the whole unit spins, you aren't going to get dust build up (ever)."

58 of 307 comments (clear)

  1. Thousandth of an inch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It spins at just 2,000 RPM and sits a thousandth of an inch above the processor

    What could possibly go wrong? Seems like a pretty tight tolerance with all the vibration that could occur in a server room.

    1. Re:Thousandth of an inch by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You must be a hard drive hater.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Thousandth of an inch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually read the article, the spinning heatsink is attached to a base plate. It DOES NOT sit directly on a CPU die.

    3. Re:Thousandth of an inch by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Funny

      There's an article?!

    4. Re:Thousandth of an inch by edibobb · · Score: 2

      And my PC will have dust plugging that .001 inch.

    5. Re:Thousandth of an inch by localman57 · · Score: 3, Funny

      So are you implying that the editors aren't nerds?

    6. Re:Thousandth of an inch by localman57 · · Score: 2

      A "mil".

    7. Re:Thousandth of an inch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's a video too. It has 45 likes and 117 dislikes. Apparently Sandia sucks at making videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGpV_VPUn8g&feature=youtu.be

    8. Re:Thousandth of an inch by msauve · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's OK. Not even the editor read the article, or they would have seen it was from 9 months ago.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:Thousandth of an inch by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative

      It spins at just 2,000 RPM and sits a thousandth of an inch above the processor

      What could possibly go wrong? Seems like a pretty tight tolerance with all the vibration that could occur in a server room.

      Read up a little on the science of Hard Disc Drives - heads usually rode on air, just above the platter surface. Same effect could be employed here.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    10. Re:Thousandth of an inch by jlar · · Score: 2

      From TFA it is clear that the spinning heatsink has a hole in the middle and that it is actually this hole which is situated over the CPU while the surrounding part of the cooler rests on a structure made for that. So the spinning heatsink will never touch the CPU.

    11. Re:Thousandth of an inch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have a better idea: just spin the motherboard 'round and 'round -- not only will my patent-pending idea cool the CPU it will cool everything else too!

    12. Re:Thousandth of an inch by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And my PC will have dust plugging that .001 inch.

      That's my problem .. I built my PC in a not-at-all clean room and it runs there. Dust rhinos abound.

      But if you're Sandia, you probably have air filters, bunny suits, everything to ensure the dust remains far from your spinning heatsink. Because, unlike you and I, Sandia have money.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    13. Re:Thousandth of an inch by sjames · · Score: 2

      Why would it be a problem? The cooler consists of the spinning part resting on a heat spreader plate (it floats just off of the plate when spinning). The plate sits on a standard thermal transfer pad which sits on the CPU. Where are you seeing a problem that every other cpu fan in the known universe doesn't have?

    14. Re:Thousandth of an inch by skids · · Score: 4, Funny

      No no no, you have to work a factor of 3 in there to be truly english.

      So try 1/12/12/8 == 1/1152. And call it an eighth-undergross just to be cretinous.

    15. Re:Thousandth of an inch by RogL · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ask someone who's worked in a USA machine-shop: it's called a thousandth (the "of an inch" part is implied).
      Machinists are not programmers, so beyond about 1/64" they switch to thousandths.
      Below that, tenths (ten-thousandths of an inch).
      Below that, millionths.

    16. Re:Thousandth of an inch by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually it was almost a year ago. Consider it a dupe

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    17. Re:Thousandth of an inch by AikonMGB · · Score: 3, Informative

      I suggest that this is how we managed to put a very expensive and blurry space telescope into orbit.

      Not in this case; there was an extra washer installed on one side of the arm mount for the mirror grinder, meaning that the arm was skewed. I agree with your general sentiment of reducing areas of potential confusion, though.

    18. Re:Thousandth of an inch by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      when we were kids we had to run park.com before turning the computer off to move the head off the platters and we were happy for it!

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    19. Re:Thousandth of an inch by Coren22 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does it yelp like when you kick a dog?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    20. Re:Thousandth of an inch by QuasiSteve · · Score: 3, Informative

      Interesting... in electronics design, the 'mil' is a common unit of measure. E.g. a trace might be 6 mils wide. A 'mil' is 1/1000th of an inch. Checking wikipedia, it seems some call it a 'thou' - can't say I have encountered that.

    21. Re:Thousandth of an inch by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      I took hard drives apart just to figure out how the automatic park works. As best I can figure out, it's powered by the residual momentum of the drive as it spins down. Implicit flywheel energy storage.

    22. Re:Thousandth of an inch by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Even the English don't use those weird English units any more, with a few very specific exceptions (Vehicle speed, people-weight, beer)

    23. Re:Thousandth of an inch by ngg · · Score: 5, Informative

      I would suggest that one of the major reasons that US still uses Standard measurements in engineering has to do with "network effects" that date to the two world wars. During the second world war, European factories were heavily bombed and after the war they needed to be re-tooled. In contrast, American industry tooled up for the war, (using standard measurements) but was never bombed, leaving a surplus of high quality tools, many of which are still serviceable to this day. When you are making a new mill or lathe, it doesn't really matter whether it is calibrated in standard or metric, but re-calibrating an existing machine for a different system of units is very costly.

      On a typical manual mill, for example, turning the traverse handwheel a complete revolution moves the table by an integer number of thousandths of an inch (usually 100 or 200, which are 2.54 and 5.08 mm). To operate the mill in metric units requires either that the operator remember that a revolution is 2540 micrometers (awkward) or rebuild a significant precision part of the machine (the leadscrews and leadscrew nuts). You might think that this wouldn't be a problem with CNC mills, but many use stepper motors to turn the leadscrews. Those stepper motors might have only 200 or 400 steps per revolution (giving a resolution of 1 to 0.25 mils, or 0.0254 mm to 0.00635 mm) which can make it inconvenient to use metric units.

      If that weren't bad enough, collets (basically an adapter to hold the "bit" in the mill) come in standard sizes to hold mills (what you call a mill "bit" used on a milling machine. yes, it is confusing) of standard sizes, which are typically fractions of an inch on US equipment. When you are machining a piece of metal, the finite diameter of the mill it usually important. The accessories that go with a milling machine can easily add up to more than the cost of the machine itself. So, to really operate a mill in metric units in a convenient way, you'd also need re-purchase all the little parts that go with the mill.

      Someone is probably going to reply that these issues don't apply to modern CNC tools. I'm not familiar with those, but the point is that there are a significant number inexpensive and serviceable tools in the US that can only work with metric units in a very awkward way (or at great expense).

    24. Re:Thousandth of an inch by rs79 · · Score: 2

      Yeah but is .exe a great idea for a tld or what?

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    25. Re:Thousandth of an inch by t4ng* · · Score: 2

      Yup. I laughed when I read this part...

      And as the whole unit spins, you aren't going to get dust build up (ever).

      I've got a bunch of old, dead fans I'd love to show them...if they could see them through all the caked on dust and dirt!

    26. Re:Thousandth of an inch by garyebickford · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ahh, the good old days - 12 inch 10 MB hard drives, and if you forgot to 'park' the head before shutdown, bad things would happen. And before that, the 'washing machine' Winchester - 5 HP stepping motors to move the heads, the drive could walk across the floor if the heads moved back and forth in resonance. And the IBM 1130, whose 1 MB 14 inch(?) removable drive had a one second mean seek time. ... I know I had a lawn somewhere. Now where did I put it?

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    27. Re:Thousandth of an inch by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Having worked as a machinist (CnC and manual), I can very well attest to this. However we used "thou" instead of "thousandths" as the term for the primary unit. Most of the carbide cutting tools that we produced for Pratt and Whitney had tolerances of +/- 1 tenths (1 tenth of a thou.)

      I havent been in that business for almost 2 decades now, tho. The wiki article seems to indicate that "thou(sandths)" has become even more common in machinist vernacular.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. Contrarian thinking by dtmos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm reminded of the rotary engine, used in some WWI aircraft. The crankshaft was stationary -- attached to the plane's firewall -- and the entire engine block, including the cylinders, rotated around it. (The propeller was attached to the engine block.) In this way, no flywheel was necessary (the block was its own flywheel), saving weight, and the engine was cooled naturally, by the air flow over the moving cylinders. I don't know how the engines were balanced.

    In a similar manner, the Sandia Cooler moves the heatsink through the air, rather than the air through the heatsink. It's solving a different problem, but I've always been fond of contrarian thinking like this.

    1. Re:Contrarian thinking by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The main idea was not to save the flywheel weight, but to cool the engine when the aircraft is not moving. These air cooled engines have fins on the engine block to radiate the heat away. At flight speeds at high altitude cooling is not an issue. But sitting on the runway, idling, these engine blocks would melt. So they decided to spin the cylinders instead of the crank shaft.

      But such a heavy rotating mass makes for very unusual handling. When a small force is applied to a spinning disk in one direction a very large reaction happens in the mutually perpendicular third direction. Some fighter pilots would use it to make very very tight left turns, (or a right turn depending on the spin). Sometimes they would use two banks of cylinders counter rotating. Or two engines counter rotating to balance the angular momentum.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:Contrarian thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why not keep the fans still and instead rotate the cpu ? Spinning the whole computer at 2000 rpm would also help with ventilation...

    3. Re:Contrarian thinking by subnomine · · Score: 2

      I believe the team from Gamera II has another radical solution.

  3. Geez, another duplicate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/07/12/1348243/the-fanless-spinning-heatsink

    Can we get some new editors??

    1. Re:Geez, another duplicate? by Volante3192 · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's amazing!

      Hey, everyone! We landed on the moon!!

    2. Re:Geez, another duplicate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The first one was the article. This one's the ad.

  4. dust by Shotgun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But...all my fans get a layer of dust on each fan blade. What are they doing differently that will stop this?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    1. Re:dust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And as the whole unit spins, you aren't going to get dust build up (ever)

      none really?

      I think not. Dust is not just 1 thing it is made of of LOTS of things. You smoke? Different kind of dust than what you get if you have cats or dogs, or live in a dry dusty area, or a smogy area, or get a lot of pollen ...

      Then on top of that it is different sizes. Then different textures... some is gooy other fine powder. Just depends on what the dust is. Then even if you put a filter over it that only works for a small amount of time. How many people clean those out on a regular bases?...

      If it depends on the layer of air they are talking about then it better have a decent filter and expect lots of seized fans...

    2. Re:dust by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But...all my fans get a layer of dust on each fan blade. What are they doing differently that will stop this?

      Your blades also have hundreds of millimeters of clearance between them, not fractions of a millimeter. As well, dust requires an electric charge to stick to something... plastic has a very large static charge that 'grabs' the dust... use a different material and the charge is neutral. Problem solved.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:dust by adisakp · · Score: 3, Informative

      But...all my fans get a layer of dust on each fan blade. What are they doing differently that will stop this?

      If you watch the video, one of the heatsink's designers specifically says that when the device is spinning quickly (at 2,000 RPM), any dust particles that land on the device get flung off by centrifugal force.

    4. Re:dust by DeTech · · Score: 2

      Exactly this is why my metal house fan doesn't have dust on it... wait, it does, and it spins @ 1.75 kRPM.

    5. Re:dust by p4g3m4s7r · · Score: 2

      Dust wont collect when spinning because the "blades" of the heatsink are oriented such that when they spin the layer of airflow that would normally form over them does not "separate" from the surface of the blades. This means the air on the blade is moving too quickly for the dust to get a good hold. I suspect this claim may be slight hyperbole, since dust will still build up on the blades immediately after it stops spinning, which will then diminish the separation layer effect and thus allow dust to start collecting on the blades while it starts moving. It will certainly at least build up dust much much more slowly though.

    6. Re:dust by p4g3m4s7r · · Score: 2

      The layer of air refers to different velocity gradients in the air. I'm not sure what you were thinking it refers to, but by not having a separation layer, you're basically making it such that a relatively small number of molecules (as in 02, N2, etc.) ever even come to rest on the blade of the fan. Dust, no matter what it's made of, is many of orders of magnitude larger than these molecules, and as such will never come to rest on the blades except on manufacturing defects, and even then, it will only do so rarely. Sure, there will be a way for dust to build up, but this design will lead to an incredibly slow build up of dust compared to normal heatsinks.

    7. Re:dust by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Funny

      ... it spins @ 1.75 kRPM.

      That extra 250 RPM does the trick!

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    8. Re:dust by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 2

      AND, because of the way the thing is designed, its very cleanable. Essentially, this is a maintainable fan. If it is designed right, the bladed part can be removed from the motor. Remove the milled aluminum (or copper) 'Heatsink' and wash the sucker out. Unlike a normal computer fan, which is pretty un-washable thin plastic, with an electric motor permanently fixed to the middle of it, so washing is out of the question.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
  5. Will it work in laptops? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given the possibility of dynamic movement of a laptop during its use, will the Sandia Cooler work inside of a laptop?

    1. Re:Will it work in laptops? by localman57 · · Score: 2

      They have yet to convince me that it will even work in a desktop...

  6. Startup/Heat Transfer by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe I just didn't get the message, but what draws heat away from the die itself? This setup probably does away with thermal paste and similar junctions...

    The other thing is that hydrodynamic bearings are only self-supporting and quasi-frictionless after a threshold RPM is reached. Before the whole setup is spinning fast enough for hydrodynamic effects to take over, it's going to grind against the chip die, and unless they came up with something good, it's going to destroy it on startup...

    --
    Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    1. Re:Startup/Heat Transfer by kylegordon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe I just didn't get the message, but what draws heat away from the die itself? This setup probably does away with thermal paste and similar junctions...

      From the video... there's a normal heatsink, and the fan draws the heat from the heatsink through the air bearing.

      The other thing is that hydrodynamic bearings are only self-supporting and quasi-frictionless after a threshold RPM is reached. Before the whole setup is spinning fast enough for hydrodynamic effects to take over, it's going to grind against the chip die, and unless they came up with something good, it's going to destroy it on startup...

      It's Sandia... I'm sure they've thought of that.

    2. Re:Startup/Heat Transfer by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2

      I don't see anything in the very in-depth video that was linked in the summary that would indicate that no thermal paste would be needed. The air-gap is between the heat sink chassis (or base plate) and the spinning heat sink, and appears to be a very efficient means of expelling heat from the device. However there will need to be some kind of thermal interface between the chassis and the CPU.

      Maybe one day we'll see this heat sink assembly actually integrated into the CPU packaging which would eliminate the need for thermal paste. I think it's a neat concept and if people actually watched the video they would also understand how dust build up is being minimized.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
  7. Re:No buildup, ever... except when you turn it off by sudden.zero · · Score: 2

    Turn it off? Who turns their computers off? Uptime: 3481 day(s), 6 hour(s), 33 minute(s) :P

  8. 2000RPM? by sdguero · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to the .pdf linked on the press article, it spins at 5,000 RPM.

    Spinning a heat sink that weighs several ounces take a much more powerful motor than a plastic fan. I'd expect it's a to harder on the bearings (i.e. less reliable), and requires a lot more power than a traditional heatsink/fan setup.

    1. Re:2000RPM? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 2

      also important to note that they stated at that point in the video that the motor was operating without its housings, which they said would greatly dampen the sound.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
  9. 30x more cooling by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

    My CPU normally runs around 140 degrees so at 30x more cooling I should be well into the -4000F range!

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    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  10. Dust Free.... yeah right.... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dear researchers, please notice how dust will cake and adhere to spinning things. Ask the airline industry how dust can cake on even turbine blades.

    It's not dust free, please take the marketing people out back and beat them with a sack of doorknobs.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  11. Re:Air is a thermal insulator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If your working fluid is moving fast enough, it stops mattering how conductive it is. The Reynolds number starts to dominate all the heat transfer coefficients. The problem with cooling is always the boundary layer, where the fluid stagnates and acts as an insulator. Sandia's found a way to minimize the boundary layer by shrinking the gap between heatsink and fan. Props to them.

  12. I challenge the Dust Free Theory. by Nyder · · Score: 2

    My fans spin pretty fucking fast, and yet, they have dust on them (and cat hair, got to love the cat hair).

    Let's go for a real world test. Put the heat sink in my computer, and let's see what happens.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  13. Re:No buildup, ever... except when you turn it off by Khyber · · Score: 2

    When your system isn't online and you're only using it for a dedicated task, you quite often don't upgrade shit if it's stable.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  14. Better Article and Interview at ExtremeTech by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 4, Informative

    See The fanless heatsink: Silent, dust-immune, and almost ready for prime time, and an interview with the inventor.

    Disbelief of the dust-immune property of this cooler is addressed in the first question of the interview:

    Jeff Koplow: I did not mean to imply that there is literally no dust fouling; some dust accumulation eventually becomes visible to the naked eye on the very leading edge of the blades. The point is that dust fouling is reduced to such a large extent that we are unable to detect any degradation of cooling performance operating the device in a relatively dirty environment over an extended period of time. Thus for all intents and purposes the dust fouling problem has been taken off the table. In contrast, with conventional CPU coolers, eventually the entire heat exchanger surface becomes entombed in dust. I suppose there are some applications in which computers are operated in extremely dusty environments that might be too much for the heat-sink-impeller. This is common sense. In trying to figure out a way around the longstanding problem of CPU cooler dust fouling, I was thinking in terms of residential and commercial environments where the vast majority of PCs are found.

    Once again, it is disappointing how many people so yearn for the status quo, when presented with clearly superior technologies. Not that they always pan out, but it is disheartening to see such hostility toward progress.