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Two UK Lulzsec Suspects Plead Guilty To DDoS Charges
judgecorp writes "Two teens have pleaded guilty to taking part in Lulzsec attacks on the U.S.'s CIA and Britain's SOCA. Ryan Cleary and Jake Davis, aged 19 and 18 respectively, admit to denial of service attacks. Cleary has also been charged in the U.S., but is unlikely to face extradition."
However, "... both Cleary and Davis denied allegations they posted 'unlawfully obtained confidential computer data' to public websites including LulzSec.com, Pirate Bay, and PasteBin, in order to encourage offenses contrary to the Serious Crime Act." Two others involved pleaded not guilty to all charges.
I get the feeling that the bulk of Lulzsec will be about their age or lower.
Or are they just two of the many who were gullible enough to participate in a LOIC attack and are now presented as the big bad hackers since that's pretty much all we can get our hands at?
Somehow it smells a bit like presenting a few street dealer busts as the big hit against drug cartels...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How could it be otherwise, since one of the points about such "anonymous" groups is that there is no leadership.
Two teens have pleaded guilty to taking part in Lulzsec attacks
Since they have pleaded guilty, it has made the world a betterer place to live in. Double plus good.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
And making instant noodles is cooking.
I can't believe their wasting their time to go after these teenage kids. There's plenty more where they came from, and ruining their future is only going to give the pro-lulzsec crowd ammunition. It's a really dumb move, and certainly not what I would do if I were the prosecution. Then again, I'm fairly my having a brain excludes me from being part of those clowns.
What these people who do their best to take down groups like LulzSec, Anonymous, etc. don't understand is that you can't take them down. This isn't a militia, a terrorist organization, or a code monkey who wants to get back at the work that laid him off: this is an idea, and a very powerful one. Anonymous's very nature is that it is anyone and everyone, there is no centralized network. LulzSec does not elect presidents, and they do not have a chain of command.
The idea is that individual liberty and the common good is important above all else. Censorship and tyranny stands in the way of this goal, and the only thing these companies are doing is adding fuel to the fire, by proving they're the very entities that need to be stopped.
The only way anyone could possibly put this to an end is if they arrested and detained every free thinker, anyone who believe in liberty and the free exchange of information, and anyone who won't bend over backwards when Uncle Sam comes to violate our rights and freedoms. We have a word for that, it's called a dystopia.
They didn't crack anything, they used vulnerabilities to gain access, there is a big difference.... Doesn't stop the government parading them about for the media points...
The people running the firewalls need their arses kicking, any firewall breach that occurs does so because the lazy arse in charge of security didn't do his job properly, any extranet that allows someone to gain access to internal systems is badly configured because whoever coded it was lazy and didn't secure it properly...
Cracking is an art form used by people who have to work hard to get to data hidden behind secure firewalls, using vulnerabilities in badly configured and insecure systems to breach a firewall is something script kiddies do...
I can implement three layers of custom built firewalls for about £5K, makes me wonder if some of these government agencies are just relying on a single router setup for their 'security'.
No, they're the same kind of rebel teenagers that used to do vandalism and tagging and in general rage against the machine when I grew up. They got no plan, no agenda except to strike out randomly and cause mayhem, with gang leaders shouting "let's flip that car" but little more than that, a mindless beast with zero attention span. Script kiddies and their wannabe groupies that would like to be script kiddies are exactly the same in online form, and I don't mind the police giving them a good slap and telling them to grow up. Go back to what you wrote, when did you last see very powerful clowns? Even when they do cause mayhem, they're still just clowns.
Uuuuuhhuuu! There is a lot of hanger going on here. Relax, they are just kids and the act of randomly vandalizing is just part of the learning process - sure there are limits. If you didn't stay at home playing with dolls, maybe you had learned it too! Since you did not, you are just afraid of those kids and raising hell for what they are doing instead of actually putting yourself in their position. IF SOCIETY actually didn't marginalize them and provided the means for them to mentally and physically evolve, certainly they wouldn't be at the streets burning hormones by breaking stuff. We need more hackerspaces, we need more youth associations. WE DONT NEED MORE RESTRICTIONS AND REASONS TO MARGINALIZE THEM!
It is exactly for people like you that these kids are doing what they are doing. Seems like you actually prefer to call the police and totally avoid them instead of actually going there, talking to them and actually understand WHY they are doing what they are doing!
Aye, now that these meddling kids are behind bars, the CIA can get away with their nefarious plans.
I'm glad they put so much effort into attacking people who DoS'd their site rather than, you know, actually proving any terrorists guilty and getting them convicted of their crimes.
18 is a legal adult. These aren't kids, and they knew what they were doing was wrong. They didn't care because, you know, the lulz.
Should the "real kingpins" be the ones in the dock? Sure. But in the meantime, should these people be held responsible for their actions? Yes, by all means. They were the strong preying on the weak, and if the law doesn't exist to prevent that, then what is its purpose?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Relax, they are just kids and the act of randomly vandalizing is just part of the learning process
That you think random acts of vandalism is a natural part of growing up speaks volumes of you and presumably the shitstain you grew up in. While I'm not going to make any claims of sainthood the people that went past pranks and looting the apple tree and into pure vandalism were mostly assholes that had no respect for other people or other people's property or other people's work. Hey there's a nice garden where someone has worked many hours to make a flower bed, let's just tear it up for the lulz. That you're trying to psychobabble that into being society's fault sounds like a pathetic excuse.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Yeah, sure, because we all know that will not happen, right?
You seem to completely fail to understand how the mind of kinds work at that age. I'm no expert at psychology but this is plain obvious. Most of them are still in the process of developing their adulthood and when every adult around them seems to disagree with their thoughts, it is plain natural the kids start absorbing the thoughts from somewhere else which they identify with. In the streets, that person would probably be some group leader. Having that, then it is just hormones and the willing to impress others that makes them behave badly - because unfortunately, failing to respect others and destroying stuff is the easiest way to show that "you have the balls". THIS IS WHERE SOCIETY FAILS COMPLETELY.
At this age, kids actually need some good leadership. Sport teams actually provide that up to some point, with an adult coach giving good directions to kids while agreeing and motivating them during the games. Hackerspaces are a good place to motivate and giving them good directions too. But we need way more than that. Schools need extra-curricular practical activities ....
So this is were I disagree with you. We don't need to call the police when they behave badly, we don't need to marginalize them! We do need to impress them and grab their attention and only them, we can teach them a valuable lesson.
You seem to completely fail to understand how the mind of kinds work at that age. I'm no expert at psychology but this is plain obvious. Most of them are still in the process of developing their adulthood and when every adult around them seems to disagree with their thoughts, it is plain natural the kids start absorbing the thoughts from somewhere else which they identify with.
Who cares? It is "natural" for hungry predator to eat a human and yet we don't allow that. Those kids are going to live in society and they have to live by society standards, no matter how "unnatural" those standards are for them. They can either break and conform or spend their lives in place where they cannot be danger to others - prison.
In the streets, that person would probably be some group leader. Having that, then it is just hormones and the willing to impress others that makes them behave badly - because unfortunately, failing to respect others and destroying stuff is the easiest way to show that "you have the balls". THIS IS WHERE SOCIETY FAILS COMPLETELY.
The only failing I see here is that this kind of behaviour was not driven out of them earlier. Spare the rod, spoil the child.
At this age, kids actually need some good leadership. Sport teams actually provide that up to some point, with an adult coach giving good directions to kids while agreeing and motivating them during the games. Hackerspaces are a good place to motivate and giving them good directions too. But we need way more than that. Schools need extra-curricular practical activities ....
So this is were I disagree with you. We don't need to call the police when they behave badly, we don't need to marginalize them! We do need to impress them and grab their attention and only them, we can teach them a valuable lesson.
Yes, of course. Lets make hooliganism mainstream to avoid "marginalizing them". I am honestly sick of idea that indulging every whim of a spoiled brat is a way to raise a child. Actions have consequences, that's the lesson they should be taught.
Who cares? It is "natural" for hungry predator to eat a human and yet we don't allow that. Those kids are going to live in society and they have to live by society standards, no matter how "unnatural" those standards are for them. They can either break and conform or spend their lives in place where they cannot be danger to others - prison.
Who cares? It is "natural" for hungry predator to eat a human and yet we don't allow that. Those kids are going to live in society and they have to live by society standards, no matter how "unnatural" those standards are for them. They can either break and conform or spend their lives in place where they cannot be danger to others - prison.
uuuhaa! Talking about extreme!
You do realize there is a learning process, kids don't turn into adults in one day? You cannot just dump social ethics and standards into them and expect them to learn! You do know that the human learning process is based on trial-error, right?
Also, what would you do if someone told you when you were a kid that you cannot play GTA / Left 4 death anymore because it is too violent? Would you just STFU and obey? It is because of this restriction / impose the rules nonsense mentality that you and a lot others have that we are getting the internet filtered.
uuuhaa! Talking about extreme! You do realize there is a learning process, kids don't turn into adults in one day? You cannot just dump social ethics and standards into them and expect them to learn!
'Turning into adult' is a slow process that starts at young age and is guided but constant pressure from parents to adapt to social norms. But many parents instead choose total leniency, 'let kids be kids' and then they are surprised when their precious snowflake gets completely unmanageable as teenager. Those "kids" from TFA are 18 and 19, they are adults in eyes of law and at this point they should be able to take responsibility for their actions. If they were allowed to stay kids for 18 years and only now they wake up and notice things like 'social ethics', then parents failed badly. And you suggest even more leniency?
You do know that the human learning process is based on trial-error, right?
Also, what would you do if someone told you when you were a kid that you cannot play GTA / Left 4 death anymore because it is too violent? Would you just STFU and obey?
Trial and error works only if there are consequences of error. Otherwise why don't just repeat the error?
It is because of this restriction / impose the rules nonsense mentality that you and a lot others have that we are getting the internet filtered.
Yawn, why don't you accuse me of stealing candy from little kids too? "Internet filter" is needed only for parents that try to push part of responsibility for raising their kids to state. And you should have noticed that I am all for responsibility.
Those "kids" from TFA are 18 and 19, they are adults in eyes of law and at this point they should be able to take responsibility for their actions
Ooops! Sorry I thought we were talking about a younger age, I misread TFA. At 18 it is indeed expected they have enough maturity already.
Only a idiot hacks from his home or a place they can identify you from OR you get bloated and start letting people know who you are and you start boasting about your "sploits"
Hacking 101 stuff. Why are these kiddies not learning the golden rules?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You sir have autism.
It's unfortunate that they will be going to prison for something so worthless. I'm not saying they shouldn't, they broke the law and they knew what they were doing. But we've all see the xkcd comic about it. Their lives will forever be altered and the CIA simply got a headache for a day.
They are both adults and should be treated like and expected to act like adults. And, they should receive adult punishment.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
This totally worked out in Clockwork Orange.
Which rather screws up your argument, since you're complaining about them doing it in the USA. Well there, they are NOT considered full adult, considered still enough of a child to be regulated against their wishes as an adult.
At this age, kids actually need some good leadership. Sport teams actually provide that up to some point, with an adult coach giving good directions to kids while agreeing and motivating them during the games. Hackerspaces are a good place to motivate and giving them good directions too. But we need way more than that. Schools need extra-curricular practical activities ....
What we need is leadership that is not completely ethically bankrupt. These are kids who care about something. We don't need to placate them with the artificial importance of sports. We don't need to indoctrinate them into becoming good worker bees.
These kids are justifiably outraged with the state of the world. You don't fix something like this with extracurricular activities. You fix this problem by doing something about the corruption in our government. You fix this problem by giving the people a voice.
I'd be willing to bet that if we saw national law enforcement priorities set rationally, instead of to protect the interests of the powerful, and if we saw regular prosecutions of the authorities when they overstep their legal powers then there would be far fewer citizen attacks on the CIA and SOCA.
Why would any well meaning, well informed young person want to become a productive member of society, when the fundamental underpinnings of society are so deeply flawed?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
What we need is leadership that is not completely ethically bankrupt. These are kids who care about something. We don't need to placate them with the artificial importance of sports. We don't need to indoctrinate them into becoming good worker bees.
Well sports was just an example. From practicing a collective sport game, I think one gets the understanding on how to work in a team, follow rules (the game's ones) and obey orders (the couch ones). You can replace "sports" with scouts, youth political/science/art associations, etc.. My point was that it is our fault (society) if the kids wander around in the streets without anything to do, because in that case they will certainly find something to kill their boredom which might not please other people..
These kids are justifiably outraged with the state of the world. You don't fix something like this with extracurricular activities. You fix this problem by doing something about the corruption in our government. You fix this problem by giving the people a voice.
Well.. Somewhat agreed. Extra-curricular activities put the kids busy with something, shows them that they might be good at something and evolves their critical thinking which is good since now a days kids seem to admire brainless people - for this I would blame the broadcasting media.
Why would any well meaning, well informed young person want to become a productive member of society, when the fundamental underpinnings of society are so deeply flawed?
Exactly! What are the fundamental underpinnings of society? The future generations! From the moderation status of my previous posts, it makes me sad to think that a lot of people here think that the bad behavior of kids is only other people's problem. It is like they didn't stop for a minute to think that they are also included in the kids environment and because of that their actions and behavior also influence the kids actions and behavior. I would call this the - it is not my son, it is not my problem - kind of thinking. I guess for some, society only works in one way..
My point was that it is our fault (society) if the kids wander around in the streets without anything to do
You assume they did this because they didn't have anything better to do. Did you consider that they looked at the world and concluded that striking out in impotent rage was possibly the best thing they actually could do? It won't work, of course, but at least it's better than collaborating.
Well.. Somewhat agreed. Extra-curricular activities put the kids busy with something, shows them that they might be good at something and evolves their critical thinking which is good since now a days kids seem to admire brainless people - for this I would blame the broadcasting media.
These kids are already thinking critically. They've thought critically enough to understand that the CIA and SOCA are not the good guys. That puts them far, far ahead of most of the population.
That's also why the law enforcement response has been so robust. If these were just hooligans, spray painting in an alley they'd get far less trouble from the authorities. If they were bullies, assaulting children on their school bus daily, they'd probably get no trouble at all. Instead, they take on the established power structure and get what's coming to them for being uppity.
Exactly! What are the fundamental underpinnings of society?
Greed and hubris, as far as I can tell. This isn't a youth problem at all. It's a rational response to corruption at the highest levels.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
0 is a legal human. These aren't automatons, and they know what they were doing is right no matter what they claim in defense. They cared because, you know, they could.
You can too. Anyone can, and that is the unlimited power of Anonymous and other entities like it.
Don't like DDoS? Fine do whatever you do like. Only the enemy will try to force your decisions.
An all too often quoted phrase, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." And I say this because it's wrong, sparing the rod saves the child from a life of violence, as the APA has so wonderfully pointed out time and time again. Corporal punishment is not the answer.
"Ah!" you may retort, "I meant a metaphysical rod!"
Think for a moment. If I do remember the article correctly (I dare say I do), then at least one of the teenagers is a straight-A student. Not your vandalizing, druggie, won't behave son -- someone who is actually bending over for our medieval attempt at education and succeeding. What are we doing by discouraging this behavior?
Teenagers, as psychology teaches us, tend to have a very romanticized view of morality. We teach them to be kind to others, that everyone is equal, etc., and what do they end up doing when they look into the world? Do they see a fair, civilized society? They see protests in Syria having their human rights violated while everyone else sits on the sidelines. They see an Egyptian military coup. And they learn that the US is supporting dictators who are oppressing their people -- the same US they were taught was all for freedom, democracy, and the common good.
Now they open their eyes and the picture is shattered. Corporations lobby and succeed to promote legislature that would benefit their profits at the detriment of other people, people are suffering in countries like Haiti, and the RIAA/MPAA is cracking down AGAINST teenagers for copyright infringement.
There was a group of rebels who lived by the principles our dear teenagers are living by. We call them our founding fathers.
Maybe these kids have the right idea, maybe all of our adult selves sitting down and trying to talk to a government disinterested in anything but profit is a waste of time, and we should give them a reason to listen to us,
Oh and this is all about a DDoS attack? Ha.