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While the U.S. and Iran Negotiate, War Commences In Cyberspace

An anonymous reader writes "A series of reports shows that the U.S. and Israel are engaged in a cyber war with Iran to stop it from developing nuclear weapons. Oddly enough, at the same time, the United States and others nations are trying to negotiate with Iran. As America and others start the world's first undeclared cyber-wars, dangerous precedents are being set that this type of warfare is without consequences. Such ideas could not be further from from truth."

12 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As crazy as this may sound, talking with each other is usually the best option.

    1. Re:Crazy by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. They are negotiating. "War" involves shooting and death. Using it to describe sabotage is just hyperbole.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Crazy by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the US gave up talking. They cripple the factories as good as they can, on the other hand demand that Iran proves its innocence (which is impossible). They demand Iran give up their sovereignty and let IAEA roam freely around the country, while at the same time IAEA has leakage that gets Iranian scientists murdered.

      If you refer to the US and Iran talking, you are only talking about a charade. The US lost trust by its actions. Like it did with torture, or starting illegal wars, it cancelled diplomacy single-sidedly.

      I think Iran would be reasonable if the negotiators took Iran as an entity and their rights seriously instead of telling them from the distance what to do. Participators need to understand the culture of Iran (a lot of friction is created in the translations). That's why diplomats are so important, presidents aren't enough for the talking.

      If Iran hadn't signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, it wouldn't even be bothered by the IAEA. It would be left alone to make nuclear weapons as it wished. I wonder if they could cancel the treaty. There is no real reason for Iran to build nuclear weapons and hide the fact, except now that everyone is making a fuzz to show that they can, then destroy it.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    3. Re:Crazy by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >>>every time USA, France, Germany, anybody, tries to talk to the leadership in Iran they are met with a very disingenuous leadership who will talk round in circles

      Source?
      Last I heard Iran allowed UN inspection teams to enter the country and look at the labs. ALSO you seem to be unaware that Iran is allowed to develop nuclear capability under the terms of the Nonproliferation Treaty. It's not a crime for them to purify uranium below 29% purity. You appear to hate Iran simply because you were TOLD to hate Iran, without any logical reason for doing so. You're a "useful idiot" of the politicians.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    4. Re:Crazy by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Participators need to understand the culture of Iran.

      Yes, let's all gather around, share our feelings, get to really know each other, sing "Kumbaya" around the campfire, and peace will follow. F***ing A.

      The U.S. and Iran aren't preparing for war because we don't understand each other. We're preparing for war because we *do* understand each other.

      What you say is unbelievably ignorant. I bet that you have never talked to any actual, living Iranian in your life and probably know absolutely nothing about Persian culture or even Iran as a country. (Like e.g. that you can go skiing there. You didn't know that, right?) In contrast to what you might presume with prejudice the Iranians I've met at conferences were friendly, not wearing beards, and had world-views that resemble most closely those of Europeans. (From my personal experience, Iranians are rather skeptical about the US, which is not very suprising given that the US has attacked and occupied a neighboring country.)

      Moreover, the only people in US and Iran who are perhaps preparing for a war are the people in small circles of governments, each of which are corrupt in their own ways. The vast majorities of people in these countries certainly do not want a war. However, it is most likely that the US not preparing for a war with Iran, and of course Iran is not preparing for a war with the US either. (The latter would be so patently absurd that not even the current Iranian government would consider it.) Its all just rhetorics, geopolitical strategy plus some cheap attempts to score points in inner politics.

      The Iranian people are suppressed by a theocracy. There is a dangerous moral police on the streets, so most of the live is within their homes, where they throw parties and dance to pop music. AFAIK, the situation is similar to other totalitarian states like the GDR or 70ies Soviet Union. People are careful what they are saying to whom and stay amongst friends. But most of them are pro-Western, although not pro American, and would like to live in a more secular and modern Muslim democracy.

  2. Make Cybersex not Cyberwar by VortexCortex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it just me or does anyone actually support the actions of our government besides the government?

  3. An undeclared war by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "As America and others start the world's first undeclared cyber-wars, dangerous precedents are being set that this type of warfare is without consequences. Such ideas could not be further from from truth."

    Oh please. The French have been doing this kind of thing since before the United States even had a name for it. It's called industrial espionage, and they're so good at it that the executives of major companies are frequently told to never use the fax machines in hotels, or the phones, or the internet (unless it is an encrypted VPN), because the French government aggressively works to steal industrial secrets from other countries and provide it to their own businesses. People think because you add the word "Internet" to a social problem, that suddenly makes it new and special... le sigh.

    All the internet did was make it faster and more efficient; Which is (wait for it) what computers in general do to socioeconomic processes.

    --
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  4. Once again proving the USA is really the bad guys by evanism · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The USA is beginning to look an awful like an awful country run by despotic psychopaths.

    The complete history of the endless war over the last 60 years has conclusively proven the USA to be quite evil.

    Each action is seemingly taken as a response to provocation, but it is very clear that it openly engages in hostilities well and truly before any open warfare. Being the bully and then pretending the victim is the reson d'être. Pearl harbour, Vietnam, desert storm, 911 and now this. The USA had very deliberately stuck its dick in another counties ass, claims to be the wronged when the victim retaliates, then mobilises the very next week. It is prepared for war instantly. it is premeditated and very deliberately provocative.

    The school bully uses this same method. They invariably go to jail or end up in a shit job. Soon, perhaps, the world will react against this menace.

    --
    Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
  5. Re:In AD 2012 (cyber) War was beginning.... by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Somebody set us up the Stuxnet!

    For sale: 5,000 slightly damaged nuclear centrifuges.
    As-Is for parts
    Best offer. U pickup.
    Contact M.Ahmadinejad.01@facebook.com

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  6. Re:United States playing the role of 1941 Japan by kamapuaa · · Score: 5, Informative

    . The U.S. had already been at war against Japan for several years, bombing & killing their soldiers in China

    What? No. They had an oil embargo, but that was a peanut response to the occupation and attempted colonization of China, which America was nominal allies with.

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
  7. Re:United States playing the role of 1941 Japan by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Flying Tigers were not US Military -- they were a force of trained Pilots who volunteered their service to a non-US Military effort out of a personal interest and as such, took their lives into their own hands -- hence the Blood Chit that the Tigers had tacked to the back of their flight jackets since the US had no significant military presence in the theatre to perform rescue operations on downed pilots and any US forces present were engaged in civilian relief operations and humanitarian roles only.

    So no -- the US was not at war with Japan prior to Pearl Harbor.

  8. Re:Once again proving the USA is really the bad gu by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Preventing a theocracy from getting a nuclear reaction is inarguably a good thing.

    This is rubbish. You are using a premise as its own justification. Israel is not in danger from an Iranian nuclear attack. Such an attack would be complete suicide for Iran. At best, Iran wants to play the game of using the Bomb as a political weapon as does everyone else. It isn't e very credible game, given the force asymmetry between them and Israel. Israelis know Iran is not a substantial threat, as some of their intelligence officials have pointed out. The question is, why are Israel and the US conducting open hostilities against Iran, including operations by US Special Forces on Iranian territory and support of terrorist attacks in Iran by Mujahedin e Khalq as well as Flame, Stuxnet, etc.?

    In the past one could have speculated that they help maintain the illusion of great instability in the Middle East, which helps justify huge financial support of the US and international arms industry (where Israel is an important player, BTW) as well as high petroleum spot market prices (the traditional reason to ensure that there is always conflict somewhere vaguely near our political allies' oil fields, but not too near). Oddly, though, oil prices have fallen in the recent past, presumably due to unusually weak demand (in spite of that all-time favorite: "The Summer Driving Season"). Military spending has not diminished, however, and in the US Republican politicians are constantly trying to take military spending "off the table" when budget cutting activities heat up.

    Frankly, I never am able to figure out why such things occur until well after the fact when the other shoe drops and it becomes clear who is making the big bucks out of the deal. Make no mistake, though. This is about money, one way or the other. The "Israel is in mortal danger from the crazy mullahs" scam is pure horse shit. I guess we'll have to wait for Steve Coll to quietly write a book 10 years from now with the details.