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New Mac Virus Discovered, Making the Rounds

sl4shd0rk writes "A new Mac OS X exploit was discovered Friday morning by Kaspersky Labs which propogates through a zipfile attachment. The attachment tricks the Mac user into installing a variant of the MaControl backdoor via point-and-grunt. Embedded in the virus is an encrypted IP address belonging to a server in China which is believed to be a C+C server. Once installed, the virus opens a backdoor allowing the attacker on the C+C server to run commands on the compromised machine. Shortly after Kaspersky's announcement, AlienVault Labs claims to have found a similar version of the Mac malware which infects Windows machines. The Windows version appears to be a variant of the Gh0st RAT malware used last month in targeted attacks against Central Tibetan Administration. Both viruses are suspected of being tools in a campaign to attack Uyghur Activists."

239 comments

  1. Misuse of the term "virus". by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know its overly popular these days to call any malware, trojan or other malicious bit of software a virus, but they really dont meet the definition. Frankly, I cant think of a real virus being released in quite some time. Which just seems lazy to me.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by nurb432 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Misuse use of terms like this really pisses me off.

      Like 'hacker', 'pirate', 'theft', and a host of others that have been twisted to the point of being ludicrous.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by toadlife · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Virus" is the new "hacker". Get over it.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      This would be a trojan horse.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    4. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by jhoegl · · Score: 4, Funny

      I know right?
      I mean, since when did a pirate never sail the seas drinking rum and killing people for their loot? I mean they actually worked for it!
      But now a days, you got these kids sitting at home, browsing sites, looking for software that is outside their financial reach so they can learn it to get a good job.
      What a bunch of ass grabbers!

    5. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We shouldn't constantly accept wrong terms just because they somehow crept into the language.

    6. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or popular use of the word becoming a generalization for a class of items, as opposed to a specific item in that class. In other words: the average Joe might care to know what malware is (and use "virus" to describe it), but doesn't care enough to devote brain cells in keeping virus / trojan / backdoor etc apart.

      We might expect better from /. editors, but then again... ;-)

    7. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has anyone ever been able to stop this once it has started? I know many who have tried, but I can't think of any that have succeeded offhand.

    8. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yes this is getting pretty sad. Like saying a virus from Nigeria tricked me into thinking I'd share in a windfall if I mailed it some money orders first.

    9. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by philofaqs · · Score: 2

      Yet the non terms Virii and boxen seem to be acceptable here - real people don't know or care about the technical definitions, all they know is it's buggering up their machine.

    10. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by ubrgeek · · Score: 2

      Not to mention "C+C" ... I'm sure the crappy band would object to being associated with malware*. I think the term is C2 - Command and Control.

      *Although it would mean more popularity than they've had in years.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    11. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That use of "hacker" was never incorrect. (Eric Raymond is wrong all the time about everything.)

    12. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by humanrev · · Score: 4, Funny

      What, like Game of Thrones?

      --
      Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
    13. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I was wondering what this had to do with Music Factories.

    14. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by nadaou · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the /. editor is not doing his job, which makes the site a worse place to visit.

      --
      ~.~
      I'm a peripheral visionary.
    15. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh please! You say trojan to the average user and the want to know why their PC needs a rubber, you say backdoor and they start looking for that rubber for their PC and you say rootkit you get a deer in the headlights look.

      Frankly, and I'm sure i'll get hate for saying this but ask me if I care, truth is truth, is that most of those I've seen that really REALLY care about that is because they are "true believers" who want to use it to say "But it doesn't count!" like an 8 year old demanding a do over on the playground. I have sat here on this very forum literally gobsmacked by people that otherwise seem intelligent saying "Only if it installs without the user does it count!" like the world owes them a do over.

      Honestly folks to the end user it doesn't matter if it gets in from the front, back, or from stage left if it fucks their shit up, puts their ID at risk, or turns them into a spammer? Then its a bug, simple as that. if you want to quibble over semantics that is YOUR business but to 99% of the population a bug is a bug is a bug.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    16. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add singleton and mentalist to the list.

    17. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virii is never acceptable and frequently when it is used here it results in a discussion of the proper classes of Latin plurals.

    18. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by k(wi)r(kipedia) · · Score: 3, Informative

      But now a days, you got these kids sitting at home, browsing sites, looking for software that is outside their financial reach so they can learn it to get a good job.

      If you sit at home the only thing within reach would be the keyboard. Seriously, I thought the two M's (including some P) was the stuff most kids got off the Net. That's why you get all these BT lawsuits from the entertainment industry, but few from the BSA, which prefers to target people who don't just sit at home all day.

    19. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm more a westwood RTS kinda guy

    20. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Gilmoure · · Score: 5, Funny

      Romanes eunt domus?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    21. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A friend of mine was doing an internship in Washington DC, he saw on a schedule a congressional briefing thing about piracy. He went assuming it was about napster etc. It was actually about Somalia. He walked away caring about online piracy a little less.

    22. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by NoKaOi · · Score: 1

      I know its overly popular these days to call any malware, trojan or other malicious bit of software a virus, but they really dont meet the definition. Frankly, I cant think of a real virus being released in quite some time. Which just seems lazy to me.

      Get over it. The real question is: Do you know what they mean? Methinks you do know what it means. It's like the word "organic" and "chemical" at your local Whole Foods. I mean, wtf, if you dump a fertilizer with anything derived from petroleum (a mix of organic compounds) in it, it's not organic, but if you dump water on it (an inorganic chemical , gasp!) then it can still be called organic. The real question is, if you see the word, are you able to determine from context what it means? In the case of computer "viruses" and "organic" food, I think the answer is yes, so you might as well suck it up and get used to the fact that those words mean something different to the layperson than what they really mean in more precise context.

    23. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      but they really dont meet the definition.

      Popular usage decides definitions, not the other way around.

    24. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by catmistake · · Score: 1

      I know its overly popular these days to call any malware, trojan or other malicious bit of software a virus, but they really dont meet the definition. Frankly, I cant think of a real virus being released in quite some time. Which just seems lazy to me.

      Once installed, the virus opens a backdoor allowing the attacker on the...

      Right, it's not a virus and it certainly doesn't open any backdoor, either, unless the malware authors also work for Apple and slipped that one by the QA and security audit guys during the last OS X build. This is misrepresenting what it's probably actually doing, merely initiating a connection to a Chinese server. But using the term "backdoor" makes the summary author sound 1337 and the attackers sound even more nefarious, even if it isn't even close to an accurate description of reality. The OP has done more damage to Slashdot's credibility than any trojan will ever do to OS X.

    25. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some good analogies to teach your average joe about interweb threats.

      VIRUS: The girl have an STD.
      MALWARE: The girl have crabs.
      TROJAN: That girl is 2 weeks pregnant.

      All with the same solution, dont have slutty sex.

    26. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only way to patch the "bug" of stupid users being able to install malware on their computers is to prohibit users from installing arbitrary software on their computers, which would be a much bigger bug than any social exploit vulnerability.

      If the system didn't get infected by exploiting some weakness of the system, but rather by exploiting a weakness of its user, then the system is not at fault. THIS is why people get defensive. Much like making DRM work, it is impossibly to completely patch the social-exploit hole without destroying general purpose computing in the process, so stories of some social exploit making the rounds on one platform or another say nothing at all about the security of that platform.

      THAT is why people get defensive when you say "see, Macs are vulnerable too!" at every story like this. If the only way someone can get into my house is if I invite them in through the front door, then my house is secure, as the only way to plug that hole would be to keep me from having guests over at all.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    27. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only way to patch the "bug" of stupid users being able to install malware on their computers is to prohibit users from installing arbitrary software on their computers, which would be a much bigger bug than any social exploit vulnerability.

      If the system didn't get infected by exploiting some weakness of the system, but rather by exploiting a weakness of its user, then the system is not at fault. THIS is why people get defensive. Much like making DRM work, it is impossibly to completely patch the social-exploit hole without destroying general purpose computing in the process, so stories of some social exploit making the rounds on one platform or another say nothing at all about the security of that platform.

      THAT is why people get defensive when you say "see, Macs are vulnerable too!" at every story like this. If the only way someone can get into my house is if I invite them in through the front door, then my house is secure, as the only way to plug that hole would be to keep me from having guests over at all.

      The issue is not the definition. The issue is some Mac users get touchy and super defense and use this dictionary approach to defend their purchasing decisions so they can say still 100% virus free! Meanwhile the harm is these Mac users feel ok to click on anything because Macs do not get viruses right? Sigh

    28. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Dwonis · · Score: 2

      the /. editor is not doing his job, which makes the site a worse place to visit.

      You must be new here.

    29. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by makomk · · Score: 0

      The only way to patch the "bug" of stupid users being able to install malware on their computers is to prohibit users from installing arbitrary software on their computers, which would be a much bigger bug than any social exploit vulnerability.

      The same's true for Windows and every other OS, though, which given that almost all malware is installed this way must surely make any claim of superior protection against malware of the kind Apple loves to make utter bullshit.

    30. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I beg to differ, I think anything that installs itself without user consent whatever the payload should be categorised as a virus. I'm sick of having to run free antispyware programs to remove crap that should have been blocked by an AV product, I work in IT by the way.

    31. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah language is what people make it. I find it difficult when people refer to thier computers as "hard drives" bit I make a point to not correct them as that would make me an arse.

    32. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yay this guy gets it

    33. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Jesus_C_of_Nazareth · · Score: 1

      And among the more ignorant fringe of my followers, the scientific term "theory" is reimagined as being equivalent to scientists shrugging their shoulders and saying "I guess so". If I wanted you guys ignorant I'd have left you in the garden.

      --
      JC
    34. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Oh please! You say trojan to the average user and the want to know why their PC needs a rubber,

      You'd suffocate in a large rubber horse though, also it would be very hot. Besides, it would have to be Vulcanized to work, and Vulcans weren't invented until TV & StarTrek.

    35. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2

      That wasn't always the case with Windows, though; with Outlook and IE, you could at one point infect your system just by reading an email or visiting a website. I still have completely nontechnical clients to this day who are under the impression that it is not safe to visit a suspicious site or read a suspicious email because you might get a virus, so this was a common enough problem to get into even the densest parts of the popular consciousness.

      Windows security has improved since then, but THAT was the angle that the "Macs are more secure" claim came from. You weren't just going to end up with a virus by looking at the wrong thing. Which was really more to speak of the absolutely horrid state of Windows security than anything special about Mac security, but with the various other *nixes not really in the public consciousness at all, Mac vs Windows is the topic at hand.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    36. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      And the first bug was Elk Cloner for mac...and? Frankly since Vista finally got rid of the legitimate complaint of Windows defaulting users to admins frankly I haven't seen a drive by in ages, its ALL just like TFA, tricking the user to do the dirty work.

      And the problem with pointing out where the Macs don't get viruses came from is look above you friend, what did I say? What were my words? that Mac "true believers" use the dictionary definition game to claim "It don't count!" and damned if the very first reply was a user doing EXACTLY THAT, claiming that "Its not a viruz!" therefor? don't count.

      I swear they act like little kids demanding a do over, and you know what i think? I think there is a little voice inside their head telling them they paid too much money for what is basically a fashion statement so they have to justify it, both to themselves and the world, that their choice is "superior" instead of simply accepting the fact that ALL OSES GET BUGS. Notice how it is ONLY Mac users that do this? I mean have you EVER seen a Ferrari owner trying to argue that his ride is a "better value" than a Mustang? or someone that buys Prada trying to argue its a better deal than payless? of course not, But Mac owners simply can't accept they bought based on brand identity and looks so here come the logic hoops. Kinda sad really.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    37. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by nadaou · · Score: 1

      the /. editor is not doing his job, which makes the site a worse place to visit.

      You must be new here.

      I can expect, and even respect, a healthy amount of slack at a site where the users tend to take things way too seriously. But at some point the untended community garden turns into an abandoned lot, and it's feeling a lot more like that these days.

      --
      ~.~
      I'm a peripheral visionary.
    38. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by PuritySyrup · · Score: 2

      And the first bug was Elk Cloner for mac...and?

      The first named virus was Elk Cloner for the Apple II. The Apple II was not a Mac. It's not like it's hard to look up the facts and get them right. http://apple2history.org/history/ah23/

    39. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by v1 · · Score: 1

      I know its overly popular these days to call any malware, trojan or other malicious bit of software a virus, but they really dont meet the definition. Frankly, I cant think of a real virus being released in quite some time. Which just seems lazy to me.

      Not lazy, just sensational journalism. Exaggerate in the summary to get more people to read it because of how surprising it would be if it were actually true

      Either the /. editors are hopping on the sensationalism bandwagon, or they're lazy. Any nerd that still has his card ought to be able to smell exaggeration here. There's really no excuse for it.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    40. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by frankgerlach11 · · Score: 1

      You owe me a keyboardz.

    41. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Either the /. editors are hopping on the sensationalism bandwagon, or they're lazy.

      That isn't an exclusive OR, I hope?

    42. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Yet the non terms Virii and boxen seem to be acceptable here

      But those are examples of slang, as opposed to a misuse of an existing term...

    43. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Uberbah · · Score: 0

      The issue is not the definition.

      Yeah. It is. Any computing system that allows the user system-level access will be vulnerable to trojans. The only way to stop trojans is to box the user in so tight that he can't do anything malicious to his system...but that would be the ultimate "walled gardens", and you guys claim to hate those....

    44. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I dunno, I see Dodge truck owners doing it all the time... they paid too much money for that fashion statement so it's *gotta* be way better than the Ford truck. But guess which one spends more time in the shop and is less likely to survive hard use and reach a ripe old age.

      Way back in the Olden Days of modems and floppy disks, the common saying among Mac users was "Viruses are a way of life" and BMUG issued weekly updates to their free antivirus for the Mac. So it ain't like there's no history there....

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    45. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Grudge2012 · · Score: 1

      Oh please! You say trojan to the average user and the want to know why their PC needs a rubber, you say backdoor and they start looking for that rubber for their PC and you say rootkit you get a deer in the headlights look.

      So? Isn't this supposed to be a site for nerds with a minimum level of technical knowledge quite a bit above "average user"? Why use dumbed down words if not to dumb down the discussion? And why defend that decision?

    46. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      To me the sad part is its just so damned predictable. I mean even in my reply to another user there it was again, another using dictionary attacks and logic hoops to try to argue "Nuh uh,...Windows gets waaay more so there!" again like they were fricking 6 years old. I'm sure those mac users that get their ID stolen or lose their data or get turned into a spammer will feel real proud that their "superior platform" gets less than Windows. Of course the fact that Windows has several free and pay for AVs like Avast and Comodo Internet Security that by default sandbox everything and thus make it a HELL of a lot harder than a Mac to infect? never gets mentioned.

      I still think its some sort of guilt over paying that much for fashion but I say if you like fashion? Then just buy it and be happy. I mean I like Asrock and Gigabyte boards, and Asus and Acer portables, but do you see me saying they are "superior" to anybody else's? Nope, its a personal preference, no different than what pizza i like or what style t-shirts I prefer, that's all.

      And funny enough I've never seen that with Dodge truck owners, usually they are too busy cursing because its in the shop for the fifth time in 6 months, which is usually followed by them getting a Chevy or a Ford ;-) But you are right about old age, I hardly ever see even an 8 year old Dodge on the road yet I'm happy as a clam with my 99 Ranger XLT and my oldest just loves his 2000 Chevy S10 sport cab. Both run like the day they rolled off the lot, no hassles, no breakage, just purr like kittens.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    47. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by sco08y · · Score: 1

      Well, I'll grant you, hacker is lamentable. It just proves that we should keep our jargon inscrutable and unmarketable or it will turn into poo.

      The degradation of virus is useful in that it can automatically flag your bullshit detector. Since there are few actual viruses any more, if someone mentions a useful term like "trojan" or "worm", they might actually know what they're talking about. Might.

      "Pirate" was used to refer to copyright violators hundreds of years ago, at around the time the first copyright laws were introduced. Not that it's any better, it's just that hyperbolic dysphemisms aren't a recent occurrence. I suspect "thief" has also always been similarly misused.

      I do find it funny that people get offended by misuse of terms like "architect" or "engineer". Like engineer, it's only supposed to apply to someone who has done a rigorous degree and makes vast public works projects, yet the reality is it has always meant and is still used to refer to someone who drives a train.

    48. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by sco08y · · Score: 2

      I guess PHISHING and WORMS were just self-explanatory, and the parent didn't want to get special-modded "Too Much Informative".

    49. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Argh!!! Bad Memories!!! I'm sweating now!

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    50. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Living as I do within a couple hours of Beverly Hills, I see the mentality all the time... they paid $$$ for something at Macy's, so it's magically better than the exact same damn thing (remaindered, in fact) 6 months later for 10% of the money at Sam's Club.

      As it happens I just saw current malware infection stats from one of the major antivirus researchers (I don't recall who by now), and for the Windows platform the infection rate was reported as ... 0.7%. That's right, LESS than ONE percent. But when there are hundreds of millions of WinBoxen, that's still a lot of infected machines. *Naturally* the numbers of infected Macs look fewer when they're.. what, about 5% of the market? and you're counting total machines, not the per-capita infection rate.

      [I don't believe in the much-vaunted *NIX invulnerability either, having read Hacking Exposed.]

      Ha, your trucks are barely broke in. I'm drivin' a 1978 Ford F100 that I bought new. It's been more or less rebuilt over time, mainly because it's had to work like a big truck (the next one is gonna be an F350!) but it still runs good, and in 34 years it's never once left me by the side of the road.

      But you are SOOO right about the Dodge owners... lotta cussin' about their high repair bills. :D (And is it just me, or do more Dodge truck owners drive like dicks?? damnear every time someone almost runs me off the road, they're in a Dodge.)

      On that note, tho... I've been hunting for a used Ford, and have had all sorts of people I'd think would know better insist that I oughta buy a Dodge instead. And I'm like... so where are all the used Dodges of the era I'm looking at? (mid-90s) Oh, that's right, there ain't none!! Well, not very many, and they go for about half the money an equivalent Ford does, which oughta tell you something about the relative value of used trucks.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    51. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      I swear they act like little kids demanding a do over, and you know what i think? I think there is a little voice inside their head telling them they paid too much money

      I'm reminded a bit of the console wars and more specifically Yahtzee Croshaw's Mailbag Showdown, particularly after the 3:00 mark.

    52. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Notice how quick they were to mod me down LOL? Truth hurts, but I never was into coddling or lies. If they like the looks, design aesthetic, or OSX? I do NOT have a problem with that, anymore than I have a problem with someone liking Gucci or Prada, just be HONEST and admit that is why you like it! Because their repair rate is NO BETTER than anybody else's, their hardware is always behind the curve (and before anybody brings up retina, PCs have had high def screens for ages, they are a small niche sold to the pro user market) and they are making on average 50%+ profits per unit. Can you find ANY PC manufacturers working with those kind of margins? Nope but there is a place you CAN find those kinds of margins....fashion. Many of the high end fashion houses make 50%+ on the margins as well.

      My late sister actually abandoned her Neon on the side of the road after the 8th or 9th breakdown, she said "I am NOT dealing with this POS Dodge anymore!" threw the keys into the front seat and walked away LOL! She went and got herself a Taurus that we still have to this day, damned good car. Everyone I know that has had a Dodge made after the late 70s has had nothing but problems, the damned things just fall apart. I was talking to a neighbor who found him a sweetheart deal on a 95 Ranger yesterday about this and he said "My Ram ran great...until it hit 70K and then it fell apart around me, I practically needed a net behind me to catch all the falling parts" LOL!

      But that is why I've told everyone that tries to buy my Ranger, which is a LOT when they find out I have one of the Vulcan V6 XLTs, no thanks because its just too damned reliable. Sure there are a couple of little scratches I need to take care of and she ain't great on gas but she purrs like a kitten and looks great and is one of the most comfortable trucks to drive I've ever had. my oldest boy's S10 is too damned laid back for me, I swear those seats are like sitting in a low rider. We had to do about a $1000 worth of front end work to his when we first got it, no damage mind you just worn out from the rough roads around here, but considering we only paid $1400 for it and it was otherwise perfect it was a really good deal. I balked when I heard what was wrong with it but my dad said "I'll take care of it" and when I asked why he was so jazzed on that truck he said "Just look at it son, remember Jackson just turned 18 and is heading off to college, remember how YOU were at that age?" and I looked at the midnight blue with mags and bucket seats and just about died and sure enough, dad was right. I don't know how many times I've driven past the college and seen Jackson in his "cool pose" leaning up against the truck talking to friends LOL!

      But if you need a good truck you can't go wrong with the Ranger or the F350s, I know plenty of folks with both and they are damned well built trucks. There is a reason why all the large shops like Orkin and Napa use the Ranger, it makes a hell of a company truck (which is why damned near every Ranger including mine is Company White) and if you need to haul large loads you just can't beat the F350. My dad tried Dodge one year about 5 years ago and after 4 times in the shop in less than a year on a brand new Ram that was all she wrote, now its F350s all the way. In fact i have to swing by his shop tomorrow to look at his new baby, he just got himself a brand new F350 fully loaded. You just can't beat a Ford or Chevy when it comes to long life, Dodge doesn't even come close.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    53. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I've always liked old Yahtzee, grumpy little Brit that he is, and he basically said the exact same thing I've been saying to Apple buyers for years...If you like it then just buy the damned thing!

      Its just like he said about that niggling little doubt because honestly i can't think of anything else that would make then not be able to stand it if others don't instantly agree that they made the superior choice. i mean do you see Ferrari owners with bullet points on why its a "better value" than a Mustang? Or those that buy Prada comparing their purchase to payless? NO!

      So just buy Apple if you like it, just don't pretend it is anything than what it is which is fashion. They have the same failure rates as the other big names, they are behind the curve pretty consistently, and before anybody brings up retina I'd point out you have been able to buy ultra high def laptops for years, they are simply a tiny niche that rarely gets reviewed because its usually targeted to niche users like pro photoshoppers and the medical industry, so it all comes down to design aesthetics and branding.

      Again nothing wrong with that, I have several brands I prefer myself, from asus to Asrock, RC Cola to Ford ranger. I simply don't go around trying to claim my choice is "superior' to anybody else because i accept that is exactly what it is, a choice. its personal taste, a preference, no different than what kind of shoes i like or what designs I prefer on t-shirts. just be happy and accept it, is that REALLY so much to ask from Apple owners?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    54. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure if we all get really angry and uptight about it...

    55. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well - perhaps to an end user the difference between Virus, Worm, Trojan, Malware etc isn't apparent.

      However this is slash dot, and I would rather not be rolled in with "End Users" when it involves my understanding of IT.

    56. Re:Misuse of the term "virus". by Reziac · · Score: 1

      That's one reason I couldn't buy a Chevy, until you get back to practically an antique, they sit too low for me. I like being up a ways, not like a lifted truck but with a better vantage point than you get from an axle-eye-view. Other reasons being the infamous timing chain problem at around 130k miles (the symptom is they just won't stay properly tuned), more nickel-and-dime issues that are more likely to leave you stranded (eg. fuel line stuff), and if you really work 'em hard, they show it a lot more (thinner metal, lack of cross-bracing in the bed and tailgate). But still nothing like a Dodge for major repair bills. Not to mention Ford and Chevy parts are a helluva lot cheaper, and you can get genuine Ford parts for up to 25 years (and it makes a difference).

      And I suppose the Cummins diesel has its merits (if it didn't come with that shitty underpowered Chrysler transmission attached), but you sure see a lot more old IH diesels and Powerstrokes still in service (except the 6.0, which by all accounts was a mess, thank you EPA). But Cummins has become the *fashionable* name in diesels, and if you drive anything else you must be some ignernt yahoo what don't know trucks, never mind that your old IH has 10x the miles on it and 1/10th the repair bills.

      When/if my old F100 goes tires-up, I'm thinkin' about one of those middle-aged little Rangers with the "bigger" engine as an everyday runabout; good to hear I'm having Correct Thoughts. :)

      As to the Mac fashion statement... I have an old Powermac G4 here, and the ONLY piece of the hardware that's not a standard IBM-compatible part is the CPU (the mobo appears to be one of those low-end Asus like eMachines used) and oh yeah, the keyboard; yet it cost 4x as much as the identical PC from two years previous (which is what it's the equivalent of), and I know cuz the receipt is still on the HD. The case is real pretty but unstable on the desk due to the funky design; the otherwise-nice Sony monitor has these weird-assed wide-stance tripod legs that require 2x the desk space to avoid falling off (it's a 17" and it wouldn't fit on the desk my old 19" did). And whose idea was a mouse cord only 18" long?? As to ease of use, it was clearly someone's first computer, and in addition to the $4000 it cost, it has another $2000 or so worth of software on it, yet it had been hardly used at all. Why? Maybe cuz the Mac interface is real pretty too, but if you don't have an existing document on the desktop, it can be hard to even FIND your programs. There's no menu; you gotta go dumpster-diving with the file manager, once you find it. But hey, it's a lot more fashionable than some cheap Winders PC, yeah! AND, it can't get *Winders* viruses (we won't mention Mac viruses, haha).

      See? I am so within screaming distance of the nominal topic, I actually mentioned it in passing! :)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  2. What is wrong with you people? by imagined.by · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Malware, not virus. Virii aren't installed by the users themselves...

    Thank you very much.

    1. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I have sex with someone I know is infected with hepatitis, does that mean hepatitis is not really a virus?

    2. Re:What is wrong with you people? by KhabaLox · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    3. Re:What is wrong with you people? by muon-catalyzed · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      > Virii aren't installed by the users themselves...

      The problem here is that OSX inherently lacks software that raises flags when 'the incident' happens, or at least it seams to be that way.. Does the victim has any built-in protection to deal with such a malware infection? Does the OS X possess mechanisms to monitor or block outgoing traffic? Does this system even has a proper driver structure to allow insertion of your monitoring pass-through driver into the TCP or disk driver stack?

    4. Re:What is wrong with you people? by newcastlejon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No it doesn't, but hepatitis isn't a virus anyway. Hepatitis can be caused by a number of different pathogens and viruses are only one kind. Off the top of my head, Listeria can cause it and so can Cryptosporidium (bacteria and protozoa respectively). Of course this is all academic since your analogy was doomed from the start. You'd have had better luck if you compared it to kissing a person with a cold sore (Herpes) on their lips.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    5. Re:What is wrong with you people? by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      Install AVG on your mac.
      End of problems.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    6. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      Hepatitis means "infammation of the liver", and can be caused by bacteria, protozoa, fungi, parasites, toxins (including alcohol), pregnancy, auto immune conditions or metabolic deficiencies. Only viral hepatitis is caused by viruses (obviously)...so the answer is no, it's actually a symptom.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    7. Re:What is wrong with you people? by raque · · Score: 2

      I use Little Snitch to watch for such things. Unfortunately, with modern software bits and pieces are always calling home. I spend a few hours a week looking up stuff to find out who is doing what.

    8. Re:What is wrong with you people? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it's an interesting term to use in this discussion because the lay definition is exactly that - hepatitis as a viral infection. Even if it's not the most common form of hepatitis (it would be alcoholic hepatitis in the US at least), it's the one that most people think of.

      That isn't to excuse Slashdot editors or submitters for not making that distinction. Somebody needs to wave the pedantic flag now and again.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    9. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean that some Mac software calls home without permission? Do you have any examples?

    10. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But, that's anti-virus software, and Macs don't have viruses!

      This. Right here. Is why. It. Is. Dangerous. To claim. Your. Platform. Does. Not. Have. The same. Security needs. As. Any. Other. Platform.

      Hopefully that was slow enough for everyone to follow.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    11. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Rosyna · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem here is that OSX inherently lacks software that raises flags when 'the incident' happens, or at least it seams to be that way.. Does the victim has any built-in protection to deal with such a malware infection?

      Mac OS X has an automatic malware scanner. The malware definitions are checked for updates daily, automatically.

      The last update to the definitions was on June 26th, 2012. I do not know if it contains the definitions for this malware yet.

    12. Re:What is wrong with you people? by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem here is that OSX inherently lacks software that raises flags when 'the incident' happens, or at least it seams to be that way.. Does the victim has any built-in protection to deal with such a malware infection?

      Yes, there's built in protection against selected malwares, come mountain lion, unsigned, or signed-with-revoked-certificates binaries will not run by default either.

      Does the OS X possess mechanisms to monitor or block outgoing traffic?

      Yes, and they're turned on by default.

      Does this system even has a proper driver structure to allow insertion of your monitoring pass-through driver into the TCP or disk driver stack?

      Yes, you can use dtrace to monitor this kind of thing if you want.

    13. Re:What is wrong with you people? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're more than welcome to get virus scanners or anything that windows has and it has a firewall. But it already asks you to make sure you're certain you want to run something downloaded and if someone is willing to ignore that and still run a application that someone stranger sent to them then there isn't much hope for them. Idiots will disable anything if they want to run something.

    14. Re:What is wrong with you people? by tbird81 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I bought my Mac because it had a glossy screen, you insensitive clod.

      * No, I don't own a Mac.

    15. Re:What is wrong with you people? by poly_pusher · · Score: 1

      Actually that just changed this week. They aren't saying that Macs can get viruses but they are no longer claiming that Macs don't get PC viruses, which is a pretty weird statement to begin with. http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/06/mac_viruses/

    16. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      That they ever said it is a problem. Now it's in all the fanboi heads and will never go away. Now, I'm not calling every Mac user a fanboi, I'm a Mac user, myself (also Linux and Windows, I use the right tool for the job and none of them are good at everythint I do), so that would be ludircrous. It also pisses me off, as a Mac user, when I'm downmodded for simply voicing my dissent with some of the decisions Apple has made in the age of Lion; some people do truly think that Apple can do now wrong and that, by pointing out what they're doing wrong and why it's wrong, I'm just trolling or being anti-Apple, or what the hell ever. The fact is that I like Snow Leopard, it's accessible enough that I can make it do what I want most of the time, and it doesn't try to push me to consume, consume, consume. Meanwhile, Lion is a huge step in the consume-as-much-as-possible direction, which, for someone who prefers to create, is a bad thing, and Mountain Lion will only make that worse. I won't get into my issues with their current hardware lineup in this post, as I've covered it in several others, but I will say that my wife, a 13 year Mac user, is looking at PCs for her next upgrade right now. Me? I'm looking for an alternative editor, to replace Coda when support (e.g. security updates) for Snow Leopard comes to an end once Mountain Lion is released.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    17. Re:What is wrong with you people? by theArtificial · · Score: 2

      Pretty much any software with activation. Adobe Creative Suite, Maxon Cinema 4D are two that I can think of off the top of my head. Typically it's when they're first run, and when checking for updates. It's not some spontaneous dialing that happens randomly (that would require a service).

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    18. Re:What is wrong with you people? by 517714 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As you are a slashdotter, we can safely assume your having sex is purely hypothetical.

      --
      The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
    19. Re:What is wrong with you people? by jbolden · · Score: 3, Informative

      OSX is a unix of course it allows insertion of software between the real and virtual TCP stack, the dev filesystem.

      Here are two common utilities that wrap that functionality:
      http://www.metakine.com/products/handsoff/
      http://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/index.html

    20. Re:What is wrong with you people? by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>Lion is a huge step in the consume-as-much-as-possible direction, which, for someone who prefers to create, is a bad thing, and Mountain Lion will only make that worse

      Are you saying that because the System Requirements say 2 GB of memory?
      That doesn't seem so outrageous.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    21. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True enough, most people do think viral when hepatitis is mentioned, but you wouldn't get away with that kind of imprecision in a professional medical forum. I suppose how much a similar terminological distinction matters depends on how close you consider /. is to being a professional tech forum...

      [lightbulb]

      ...OK, it's futile, I get it...

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    22. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I was refering to the user, not the system. Lion's a consumer OS with a focus on consumption of media and apps, rather than a general purpose OS, like Snow Leopard. Mountain Lion is only a step further in this direction.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    23. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plural form of "virus" is "viruses". There is no such thing as "virii".

    24. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 1

      Maybe you noticed it this week (or wired did) but the .au version at least has been saying for a very long time now that they don't get PC viruses. It has been a great point of hilarity in my office for quite some time.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    25. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 2

      Eh I'm an idiot. Ignore.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    26. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hahahahahahaha

    27. Re:What is wrong with you people? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      Antivirus software is the wrong approach. To be frank as a security profession AV software alone is worth nothing. Its reactive in terms of signatures and Flame pretty much proves the heuristics don't work. Spend just a few moments slightly modifying any of the common packers so its not quite strait off the net and you still get meterpreter past all the majors.

      AV is there to hopefully with lots of dumb luck catch you if your dropped the ball some place else.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    28. Re:What is wrong with you people? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      When will Miceosoft claim that PCs can't get Mac viruses?

    29. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Viruses. NOT Virii. Learn English please.

    30. Re:What is wrong with you people? by metrix007 · · Score: 2

      OS X does not have a malware scanner. It has a list of malicious checksums and only checks files saved through certain applications. Download a malicious file through a torrent for example, and it won't raise a flag.

      It isn't a scanner and should not be stated to be one.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    31. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using "-ii" instead of "-uses" is the new lisp for a certain group of people

    32. Re:What is wrong with you people? by tsa · · Score: 1

      I use Lion and I never noticed that.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    33. Re:What is wrong with you people? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      But it already asks you to make sure you're certain you want to run something downloaded and if someone is willing to ignore that and still run a application that someone stranger sent to them then there isn't much hope for them. Idiots will disable anything if they want to run something.

      Which is precisely how the vast majority of Windows infections also occur.

    34. Re:What is wrong with you people? by drsmithy · · Score: 2

      I was refering to the user, not the system. Lion's a consumer OS with a focus on consumption of media and apps, rather than a general purpose OS, like Snow Leopard.

      Please tell me about the "general purpose" things I can do in Snow Leopard that I can't do in Lion.

    35. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's probably the only intelligent comment i've read defending the side of 'don't call it a virus'

    36. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak for yourself. I'm married to a female computer programmer.

    37. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can not run PPC legacy apps.

      You can't "save as..."

    38. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also nonsensical.

      Needing. Anti. Virus. Is. Not. The. Same. Security. Needs.

      There easily a dozen underlying, hideous, and unfixable dangers to Windows hosts that are mitigated or non-existent in the Apple or Linux world. The default setup of "my hard drive is shared with everyone as the \\hostname\C$ drive, all the time, and you *CAN"T TURN IT OFF* and still be able to print" is a horrible one, right there. The complexity and random privileges required to install even a non-privileged program is another. The storage of user data, system data, software configurations, and privileged user data all in that monolithic, unstable, consistently API violating mass of gobbledygook called the Windows Registry is another.

      That all publicly interacting systems need protection against malicious software one can be tricked into downloading and installing is universal. And the statistics at CERN are misleading, because the Linux and Mac users *report the attacks*. The Microsoft clients usually don't, so you can scale the Microsoft attacks up by a factor of about 10. This is about how often I see Microsoft clients report attacks to CERN versus Linux or MacOS clients, out of the last hundred or so incidents I've had to deal with for my employers. I am *prohibited* from reporting the Windows attacks, lest I expose our vulnerability to investors.

    39. Re:What is wrong with you people? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      It probably is now but between autoplay, outlook's preview pane and numerous other little friendly helpers in Windows up until recently I'd argue that's probably not the case and given that IE still has more exploits than the others followed by Chrome that does mean running either of the top two browsers leaves you vulnerable without intentionally doing something. Unless of course you consider just being on the internet makes it their fault.

    40. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Uberbah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This. Right here. Is why. It. Is. Dangerous. To claim. Your. Platform. Does. Not. Have. The same. Security needs. As. Any. Other. Platform.

      Speaking perfectly normally: they don't. Trojans have existed on Unix variants for decades, but that doesn't mean that the Unix community has been the cesspool of malware that Windows has been. Same for Apple.

      If Nintendo ran ads touting the lack of a Red Ring of Death on the Wii, would that equate to saying that the Wii has had zero issues with malfunctioning hardware? You should see a doctor about that broken sense of proportion.

      some people do truly think that Apple can do now wrong and that

      Which people, exactly. Periodically I'll ask haterz on Slashdot to point some out, and it usually goes like this:

      So where are these fanboys, exactly.
      "Everywhere, just look around!"
      You'll have no problem finding some examples then
      Crickets

    41. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be frank as a security profession AV software alone is worth nothing.

      AV is there to hopefully with lots of dumb luck catch you if your dropped the ball some place else.

      And therefore it is worth more than nothing?

      I personally don't have AV software installed on my home machine. But I certainly have it installed on my parents' machine.

      Why? My parents are more likely to screw up regarding viruses, than the AV maker is likely to screw up their AV stuff (and cause problems). In contrast, the AV makers are provably more likely to screw up in their AV stuff before I ever get infected with a virus, so there is no point me paying the cost of running AV softwaer.

      AV software catches many run of the mill viruses, and that's good enough to reduce the likelihood of my parents' machine getting pwned and thus reduce the work I have to do.

      Yes I know about Flame. But USB drives do not autoplay on my machines. I do not use IE to browse. My browsers run using different user accounts from my main user account, I use certificate patrol which will warn me if certs change suspiciously. Yes there are likely to be zero day privilege escalation bugs out there, but I doubt the NSA or the elite hackers are going to waste them on pwning people like me.

    42. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Trojans exist on all platforms, by the very nature of their being an exploit of the user, not the system. Preventing, detecting, and removing them requires the same security needs, regardless of platform. Whether it's the user simply knowing better, which works on all platforms, or some bit of software to detect known malware and prevent it from executing, coupled with a bit of software do detect malware that may have been unknown at the time of installation and remove it, those measures are needed on every platform. Speaking perfectly normally, Macs do require this, either user education or detection and removal, preferably both because people do make mistakes. Nearly complete lack of any form of heuristic detection is precisely why very little Mac malware has been noticed; yes, the number is surely smaller than it is for Windows, but it is, also, surely higher than the few known variants. Why? Because Apple "educated" its users to ignore threat mitigation entirely. Now, they're being re-educated.

      And I'm a hater? Read a few of my other posts, you'll find that I'm far from. I'm mostly saddened to see that Apple is now beginning to fall, just like they had set themselves up to do. As for examples of fanboys, try the mirror and my boss; beyond that, yes, look around, I won't say theyre everywhere because most seem to prefer to moderate now, rather than posting, since Mac malware has become a widely known issue, so all of their arguements can now easily be dismantled. Try looking back 6 months or farther and you'll find the posts you are looking for. Or are you trying to tell me that the fanboi population has ceased to exist since the first mention of 800,000 infected Macs?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    43. Re:What is wrong with you people? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Trojans exist on all platforms, by the very nature of their being an exploit of the user, not the system. Preventing, detecting, and removing them requires the same security needs, regardless of platform.

      Attempted slight of hand, noted. You started this out by talking about the security needs of platforms, not the hypothetical threat of trojans. And the simple fact of the matter is the only group of people that have the security needs of Windows Users are.....Windows Users. Because Microsoft didn't start to give a shit about open services or privilege separation until Vista.

      Because Apple "educated" its users to ignore threat mitigation entirely.

      Oh, is that why they ask users if they are sure they want to open applications downloaded from the internet. Or, maybe you're trying to conflate theoretical possibility with likelihood, in which case how much time do you spend a day checking the skies for incoming meteors?

      And I'm a hater?

      Make talking points like a hater, sneer at the never-named 'Apple fanboys' like a hater, try to move the goalposts like a hater...chances are it's a hater.

      Or are you trying to tell me that the fanboi population has ceased to exist since the first mention of 800,000 infected Macs?

      I see you've moved to Step 2.

      So where are these fanboys, exactly.
      "Everywhere, just look around!"
      You'll have no problem finding some examples then
      Crickets

    44. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      I never moved any goalposts. It is fa fact that all platforms require the same mitigation techniques; it's simply that OSX (and Windows since XP SP2, most Linux distros, most of the BSDs, iOS since its 4th or 5th release, Android, BBOS, etc...) does many of them for the user, so the user need not worry about those specific techmiques. Trojans are not a hypothetical threat, they do exist on every platform (this article is about one, as a matter of fact); and they require the same mitigation techniques (read: security practices) as they do on any other platform: user education (asking if you're sure you want to do something does NOT equate to educating you about the dangers of doing so, and Apple has gone out of their way for the last decade to educate users that their Macs are safe trom these very types of attacks), attack detection and mitigation (realtime antivirus/antimalware, which will catch known threats before they can do any harm; with heuristics, they'll catch some unknowns, as well), and periodic full system antivirus/antimalware scans (which will catch previously unknown threats once they become known). It is a fact that Apple has "educated" their users that their Macs are safe, and I'll point out again that asking if someone is sure they want to do something is *not* education; a user who's told it's safe and wants to see the fuzzy bunny is going to click "YES". Anything not requiring user interaction is simply a matter of default settings; open those services up to the world and BAM the'll be attacked; Windows, as I've pointed out, has not done this since XP SP2. I still run that in a VM on a CentOS 6.2 host just like I run OSX, because both systems have a larger number of known threats currently in the wild than their Linux host and it is much easier to monitor them in VMs and roll them back should I ever need to.

      I'm a Mac *USER* (40+hr/wk for work and recreationally on a teal G3 PowerMac, G4 PowerBook, and an OSX VM on my PC, as well as my wife's 17" MacBook Pro) for christ sake, but somehow I'm a hater? The fact is that /. users who know better than to click "YES" or "OK" on every dialog they see ARE A MINORITY. Windows users, who have been educated for the last 20 years that their systems *ARE* vulnerable (when was the last virus for Windows, BTW? If you want to exclude trojans and the like when discussing Mac, let's do the same for Windows) and moat of them *STILL* click "YES" and "OK" to *EVERYTHING*! You think this is gonna happen at a lesser rate on Macs because... why?

      And I told you precisely where to find at least TWO fanboys. The mirror and my office. And I said nothing like your little script; did you bother reading my post?

      It is impossible to argue with someone who cherry-picks quotes and argues out of context like you are doing. So, I'll leave it at this: anyone who reads what you've quoted in the contect in which you've quoted it will think you've won this; anyone who reads those same quotes in their true context, as I wrote them, will think that maybe you need to make some real arguments to counter mine. You've argued nothing and, indeed, have attacked your opponent, rather than his arguments (in typical fanboy style, thus why you were labelled as such), showing that you have no compelling case of your own. This time, I only restated my arguments and ended that with a question, which shouldn't be difficult to answer. Ball's in your court and I've got one foot on the grass, ready to head home if you don't want to play by established rules.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    45. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      What do you use it for? I noticed it in the first few minutes I played with it on my boss' laptop ()since I had my Snow Leopard sitting right next to it, the differences were obvios immediately) and he notices it (and mentions it) every day. His was a forced upgrade, he took his MBP in because he needed to reinstall Snow Leopard and had lost the DVD, and they "upgraded" him to Lion and are now refusing to downgrade him back to what he actually paid for.

      My wife, on the other hand, who browses the web, checks her email, plays games, and dabbles in Photoshop, will probably not notice much of anything other than "ooh, it's easier for me to buy shit now".

      The problem is that when you drive away the developers, the apps stop coming; then, you're driving away the normal users who don't notice the changes in Lion. Unless this is corrected for in the next couple of releases, I don't see this process taking more than 10 years.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    46. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      When I said "general purpose" I was refering to an OS that lets you do what you want, consequences be damned. As a developer, that is important; as a user, not so much; as a consumer, not at all. Are yo ua developer? If not, be happy with Lion and Mountain Lion until the developers get pissed off and leave; then, hope the apps you have are all the apps you want. If all you care about is browsing the web, checking your email, and buying shit on iTunes, then Apple truly can do no wrong for you, this is their focus, all other parts of the experience be damned. You don't even need a Mac for that; the PC version of iTunes works just as well!

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    47. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Don't really care about PPC legacy apps, I have a G3 and G4 around for those. "Save As" is a sticking point for quite a number of power users; and the more advanced the user, the more likely it is to be a sticking point. Neither of those are the type of thing I was talking about, though. I'm not talking about things your everyday user would notice (ok, inverted scrollbars are annoying as fuck!); rather, things that will cause the developer community to get fed up and leave. Which, if course, ends in little-to-no application development, reducing consumer desire for the platform, driving most normal users away, as well. The few who use their Macs only as a gateway to the iTunes teat will still be interested at that point, and those few can use a PC for that.

      With Leopard and Snow Leopard, OSX was showing a set of colors I really liked; I bought in, hoping those were the true colors of OSX. Now, Lion is shifting to some new colors I'm not as fond of; hopefully OSX is just a bit ill and will get better. If these new colors Apple is shifting it towards are the true colors of OSX, it spells the first step down the slippery slope to the demise of OSX.

      Who knows, maybe that's what Apple's after? There's no way in hell the shareholders would let them survive if they killed off a profitable desktop OS; if that's what they're after, they have to tank it, first.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    48. Re:What is wrong with you people? by tsa · · Score: 1

      I use it for pretty much the same things your wife uses it for. And I like most of the things I've seen of Mountain Lion, although not the extra FaceBook and Twitter integration. I will upgrade for sure.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    49. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      Then you're not one of the affected parties and should graciously bow out of the conversation.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    50. Re:What is wrong with you people? by tsa · · Score: 1

      I just don't get what you mean when you say that "Lion is a huge step in the consume-as-much-as-possible direction, which, for someone who prefers to create, is a bad thing, and Mountain Lion will only make that worse." Can you explain?

      --

      -- Cheers!

    51. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      It's designed around funneling users to the browser, iTunes, and the App Store (which my wife just pointed out to me as I'm typing this, "fucking sucks"). Snow Leopard *has* iTunes, a browser, and with more recent updates, access to the App Store, but the primary focus is on being a well-rounded, useable OS. Starting with Lion, the focus is on making it as much like iOS as possible and selling as much shit through iTunes and the App Store as possible, damn the rest of the user experience.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    52. Re:What is wrong with you people? by tsa · · Score: 1

      I see your point but we will have to agree to disagree on this. Yes, OSX gets more iOS-like with each upgrade but that makes the whole Apple experience more agreeable. But you don't have to use all the new features. And it still synchronizes with Outlook if you need that. OK, you need the horrible stinking pile of rubbish that is called iTunes for that, but it's possible. But I digress.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    53. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      LOL Outlook! All of your points are 100% valid for the average user. Anyone using the platform for development or contrnt creation is going to see exactly what I'm talking about in Mountain Lion and the next release after that. You, you're not one of those users, so I've already stated that, for your use case, I do agree with you; there's no need to agree to disagree, you simply don't use the system in a way that shows the flaws, so you have not seen them to be in a position to agree that they exist.

      Let me ask you this: What happens when Apple's decisions drive developers away from their platform? Who's making the apps for the app store, then? It will be a few years before users like yourself begin to see the effects of this, but trust me when I say that developers are already feeling it.

      Hopefully I'm wrong; hopefully Apple will turn this around and whatever comes out after Mountain Lion will be as open and accessible to power users, developers, and creative types (the latter being Apple's former niche market, now alienated) as Snow Leopard is and has been. If they do that, hopefully before it comes time for me to replace my current laptop, they'll end up back at the top of my buy list, where they were shortly after I bought the Toshiba I currently own. With the release of Lion, they were moved close to the bottom (just above HP/Compaq, eMachines, and Dell/Alienware) and with their current hardware lineup, they were removed completely. I'd love a 15" retina display on a system with an internal optical drive, upgradeable RAM, and a standard (e.g. upgradeable) SATA SSD, without the glue used to prevent the machine from being opened (case bottom glued to LiPo battery? COME ON, APPLE! EVEN YOUR TECHS CAN'T OPEN THAT!); and I'd even accept a 17" retina display with the flaws that make the 15" worthless to me, because the resolution would be INSANE. There's just nothing compelling in their current lineup, though.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    54. Re:What is wrong with you people? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      When I said "general purpose" I was refering to an OS that lets you do what you want, consequences be damned.

      Maybe I need to ask in a different way: what is Lion preventing you from doing as a "developer" ?

    55. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      Me? It's not, I've opted to stay on Snow Leopard for the time being. My boss? Well, I'd have to ask him for specifics, but I hear him bitching about it all the time; and he's the reason we're a Mac office.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    56. Re:What is wrong with you people? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Me? It's not, I've opted to stay on Snow Leopard for the time being. My boss? Well, I'd have to ask him for specifics, but I hear him bitching about it all the time; and he's the reason we're a Mac office.

      You wrote:

      Lion's a consumer OS with a focus on consumption of media and apps, rather than a general purpose OS, like Snow Leopard. Mountain Lion is only a step further in this direction.

      In what way is Lion any less a "general purpose OS" than Snow Leopard ? What would Lion stop you doing that Snow Leopard does not ? How will Lion obstruct a a software developer from developing software ?

      In short, why do you keep posting about how Snow Leopard is better for "software development" or "content creation" yet cannot (or will not) actually articulate any *reasons* Lion is worse ?

    57. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 0

      How much do you understand about how one's environment influences one's workflow? If the answer was anything more than "not much" you'd already see what I'm complaining about; but, since you're directly in the target market for Lion and Mountain Lion, I don't expect you to see the problem, because, for you, it doesn't exist. There's nothing specific (that I know of, that my boss has complained about) that you *can't* do in Lion that you can do in Snow Leopard, but the workflow has changed in ways that are very much "less than optimal". The environment is one of consumption rather than creativity or creation and that does, on a psychological level, alter the workflow, as well.

      All I can say, and I'll reword it this time, is what I've already said. I used it for a few minutes after Apple forced the "upgrade" on him and it simply was not a comfortable experience for me; he's constantly parroting the same. Since he's the one using it for 40+hr/wk, like I said, I'd have to ask him for specifics.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    58. Re:What is wrong with you people? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      How much do you understand about how one's environment influences one's workflow?

      Given you cannot even articulate how Lion negatively "influences one's workflow" compared to Snow Leopard, how much *I* know isn't particularly relevant to the discussion at this stage.

      There's nothing specific (that I know of, that my boss has complained about) that you *can't* do in Lion that you can do in Snow Leopard, but the workflow has changed in ways that are very much "less than optimal".

      How ? This is about the fourth time I've asked, yet you still haven't answered. It's a pretty simple question. If the problems are that significant, how hard can it be to come up with a few examples ? Heck, I could come up with a few examples of how the OS X is "less than optimal" compared to Windows right off the top of my head.

    59. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Given you cannot even articulate how Lion negatively "influences one's workflow" compared to Snow Leopard, how much *I* know isn't particularly relevant to the discussion at this stage.

      Given that this is precisely what we are talking about, how much *you* know is quite relevant. It's probably a good idea to bow out of the discussion if you're not familiar with the topic. While I *am* familiar with the topic, I'm not a phychologist, UI designer, or UX designer, so, while I have a grasp of the concepts, I lack the proper terms to articulate them. Further, I've used the platform for all of 5 minutes, I simply sit next to someone who bitches about it for 40+hr/wk; though, in those 5 minutes, I did get the distinct feeling that something was amiss. Do I need to repeat that again?

      Heck, I could come up with a few examples of how the OS X is "less than optimal" compared to Windows right off the top of my head.

      Well, we're not comparing OSX to Windows, now, are we? We're comparing OSX to OSX, so I'd go so far as to say that your examples would be pretty pointless.

      How ?

      The paragragraph you quoted without context (and replied to out of context -- you see, it's fine to quote without context if you're replying in that same context, which you did not) answered that question for "about the fourth time". I can't give specifics because I'm not the one using it, I'm just the one who has to hear the one using it bitch about the inferior system "upgrade" being forced on him for 40+hr/wk. I said that, right here, in the last paragraph of my post. You must have stopped reading as soon as you started commenting.

      All I can say, and I'll reword it this time, is what I've already said. I used it for a few minutes after Apple forced the "upgrade" on him and it simply was not a comfortable experience for me; he's constantly parroting the same. Since he's the one using it for 40+hr/wk, like I said, I'd have to ask him for specifics.

      Oh, look, I repeated it again, 2 more times.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    60. Re:What is wrong with you people? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Given that this is precisely what we are talking about [...]

      No, we aren't.

      You are waving your hands and asserting that Lion negatively impacts "creative" workflow.

      I am asking you to explain how.

      You are not explaining how.

      When you do start giving specifics, then maybe we can "talk about" a) whether or not Lion actually does negatively "influences one's workflow", b) how and c) why. Until that discussion can begin, however, how much either of us claims to know about "how one's environment influences one's workflow", is completely and utterly irrelevant.

      Further, I've used the platform for all of 5 minutes, I simply sit next to someone who bitches about it for 40+hr/wk; though, in those 5 minutes, I did get the distinct feeling that something was amiss. Do I need to repeat that again?

      No, you need to provide more detail on what caused "the feeling".

      Well, we're not comparing OSX to Windows, now, are we? We're comparing OSX to OSX, so I'd go so far as to say that your examples would be pretty pointless.

      I am trying to make the point that when real UI differences with real impacts actually exist, it is trivial to enumerate and describe them, rather than vague implications about getting the heebie jeebies.

      The paragragraph you quoted without context (and replied to out of context -- you see, it's fine to quote without context if you're replying in that same context, which you did not) [...]

      The mind boggles at how something can be quoted out of context on a website where all the context is displayed directly above.

      Oh, look, I repeated it again, 2 more times.

      So all you're doing is parroting someone else's opinion ? Why, then, are you presenting that opinion as a conclusion you have reached yourself after actual evaluation and analysis, based on an understanding of "how one's environment influences one's workflow" ?

    61. Re:What is wrong with you people? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      I am trying to make the point that when real UI differences with real impacts actually exist, it is trivial to enumerate and describe them, rather than vague implications about getting the heebie jeebies.

      Again, I used it for all of 5 minutes, not long enough to start building a list of what I feel is wrong with it. If I can get my boss to let me interrupt his workday to borrow his laptop long enough to build you that list (no, a demo unit won't suffice, as I can't enter my development environment and actually try to work on that), I'll do that. If I can get him to sit down and detail specifics, I'll do that. Until then, the absolute best I can offer you (since I, along with the rest of my office [save for one guy who's still on Panther], am still using Snow Leopard) is that i felt uncomfortable for the 5 minutes I used it and my boss bitches about it all day long. I understand what you're asking for and I'm telling you why I can't provide it; not that it doesn't exist (God, I wish that were the case, my boss would finally STFU -- I SIT NEXT TO HIM ALL DAY!), but that I can't get my hands on the machine to enumerate the flaws.

      No, you need to provide more detail on what caused "the feeling".

      Duly noted; meanwhile, refer to the above.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  3. Re:Impossible! by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Well, since this is a trojan and not a virus, your statement is sort of silly and makes you look stupid.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  4. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There aren't. What is being called "viruses" are trojans and other malware that requires the user to install them.

  5. So what's so special about this one? by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 0

    Gonna cover every OS X exploit now ???

    What's so special with this one? Is it bringing down the net? Infected millions of machines in a matter of days? Clogging some high-profile sites with junk traffic? Never-seen-before technique for gaining entry?

    Yeah, there's malware on OS X too. Get over it.

    1. Re:So what's so special about this one? by toadlife · · Score: 1

      The novelty hasn't worn off. We'll know the Mac has reached the big time as a platform when new pieces of malware are not covered.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    2. Re:So what's so special about this one? by cpu6502 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only reason it's a big deal is because Apple used to advertise OS X "doesn't get PC viruses." So when a Mac gets one, now everyone jumps on it with a /. article to show apple was wrong.

      BTW Apple just removed their claim: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/mac-virus-apple_n_1625110.html

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    3. Re:So what's so special about this one? by plate_o_shrimp · · Score: 2

      Only reason it's a big deal is because Apple used to advertise OS X "doesn't get PC viruses." So when a Mac gets one, now everyone jumps on it with a /. article to show apple was wrong.

      Well, it's still true that OS X doesn't get Windows viruses. Perhaps a tautology, but true nonetheless....

      --
      This sig has exceed its monthly bandwidth allotment.
    4. Re:So what's so special about this one? by easyTree · · Score: 2, Funny

      Clearly this is propaganda perpetrated by Mac-Haters.

    5. Re:So what's so special about this one? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 3, Informative

      This story isn't covering a virus either. It is a malicious application but one that relies on an idiot running an application from a stranger and ignoring the warning suggesting that maybe you shouldn't open it.

    6. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd like to point out that this popaganda has nothing to do with the McHaters. We're a proud clan, with neigh a hate-on for any OS. We're not mad either, like those McHatters. Please don't confuse us with them.

      -Paddy McHater

    7. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good to see that an appreciation of irony is alive and well within slashdot...

    8. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      they dont claim windows viruses, they claim PC viruses, last time I checked Apple makes Personal Computers

    9. Re:So what's so special about this one? by plate_o_shrimp · · Score: 1

      they dont claim windows viruses, they claim PC viruses, last time I checked Apple makes Personal Computers

      But to most people, "PC" is synonymous with "Windows machine", so the analogy holds.

      --
      This sig has exceed its monthly bandwidth allotment.
    10. Re:So what's so special about this one? by cpu6502 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple also used to boast that users could "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing." And I noticed this: "When the latest version of Mac OS X, codenamed Mountain Lion, becomes available to users in July, the software will include a new "Gatekeeper" feature that restricts which applications users can download onto their phones or computers. Only apps "downloaded from the Mac App Store or those digitally signed by a registered developer" will be accessible with the Gatekeeper upgrade, per Computerworld"

      Wow. That means a lot of my programs, which are not "registered" developers, will not be installable on a Mac 10.8. I guess?
      - Stella (Atari emulator)
      - NES emulator
      - N64 emulator
      - VLC Player
      - uTorrent
      - azureus

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    11. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me PC was x86 arch, wich mac now shares.

    12. Re:So what's so special about this one? by awyeah · · Score: 2

      Gatekeeper is not mandatory.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    13. Re:So what's so special about this one? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      This story isn't covering a virus either. It is a malicious application but one that relies on an idiot running an application from a stranger and ignoring the warning suggesting that maybe you shouldn't open it.

      meh, by that logic HIV isn't a virus because it relies on idiots doing things with strangers and ignoring all the warnings suggesting that maybe they shouldn't be doing those things.

      I think relying on human stupidity to allow malware deliver its payload into the sweet elevated privileged levels it needs to pwn you is a valid attack vector for virus. Biological virii have been relying on it for millenia.

    14. Re:So what's so special about this one? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Nah, the real reason it's a big deal around here is that if it happens 98 more times, we'll finally understand how Windows users feel. ;)

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    15. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LAST TIME I CHECKED

      This required the user to install.

      Thus, no matter how much you wish it was, it is not a virus.

    16. Re:So what's so special about this one? by catmistake · · Score: 1

      Only reason it's a big deal is because Apple used to advertise OS X "doesn't get PC viruses." So when a Mac gets one, now everyone jumps on it with a /. article to show apple was wrong.

      Well, it's still true that OS X doesn't get Windows viruses. Perhaps a tautology, but true nonetheless....

      More accurately, OS X does get and can spread Windows viruses to other Macs and Windows machines... however, OS X is unaffected by them. Virus is yet another class of software that, these days, still only works on Windows thanks to Microsoft listening to their insane user-base that keeps insisting it needs backwards compatibility to run outmoded, outdated 20yr old software that in reality no one still uses... though they still insist that they do and somehow haven't yet heard of this new fangled trend in computing, the virtual machine. The only reason for virus scanning software on a Mac is to help protect Windows machines from other Windows machines.

    17. Re:So what's so special about this one? by cavreader · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of any OS security exploits are caused by clueless users who click on any link in an email and of course application developers who don't know what the hell they are doing. Then there are the folks who consider themselves IT experts who modify security settings incorrectly, firewall configurations incorrectly. and user and program permission. Just running a 3rd party security scan on your code does not mean it is 100% secure. This is especially prevalent in the business world were the developers are pushed to produce reliable functionality on schedule while staying within the allotted project budget. Computers are for running applications and malware counts as an application when you get down to the 0's and 1's. The most recent Flame malware actually used well known components such as MySQL to convince the security scanners that malware is also a legitimate application. The Stuxnet malware had to rely on a couple of 0 day exploits and stealing security certificates from the companies that produced them. The average script kiddie or even an above average developer usually do not physically break into the actual offices to steal these types of certificates. If you really want to be exploit free unplug your Internet cable and never load programs using any external media devices that contain stuff that you know nothing about. If the Iranians had disabled the USB ports data and other external storage devices they might have never encountered the problem. Stuxnet required someone to physically implant the malware using external media such as an USB drive. Even drive by web infections could be prevented if the application developers did a better job when they built their applications I have used Windows since 3.0 (and hated it) Linux, and the Apple OS since the Apple 2 was introduced and have never been infected. Designing a 100% secure OS or application would result in application updates cycles taking years and cost a hell of a lot more than now.. It is always a trade off between providing reliable functionality in a timely manner and the amount of time spent to make something 100% bullet proof. Your average user is just not vigilante or capable enough when it comes to detecting problems.

    18. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      um not really, ask a joe average and the hard disk is the computer box and its windows

      what kind of computer do you have, "well sir, its windows with the hard disk on the floor" or "its a dell"

      people before the IBM personal computer 8051 call PC's anything that is a computer you can personally own, anyone after the mid 90's called it windows or mac, other than those cute apple commercials

      its splitting hairs really, but go ask your aunt see what she says

    19. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But to most people, "PC" is synonymous with "Windows machine", so the analogy holds.

      Unless it suits the argument for it to be otherwise. Like all the arguments that contain the words "Most people".

    20. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      I've only read TFS, but- doesn't it say that there is a "Windows version" of this malware also doing the rounds?

      If so, that's quite fun. Mac actually does have a PC "virus"! It's all grown up!

    21. Re:So what's so special about this one? by oji-sama · · Score: 1

      they dont claim windows viruses, they claim PC viruses, last time I checked Apple makes Personal Computers

      Well their answer in the 'why-mac faq' does look a bit misleading.

      Is a Mac safe from PC viruses?
      Yes. The OS X operating system isn’t susceptible to the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers. And although no computer connected to the Internet is completely immune to all viruses and spyware, OS X has built-in defenses designed with your safety in mind.

      So it is safe from PC viruses, but not completely immune to all computer viruses... ^.^

      --
      It is what it is.
    22. Re:So what's so special about this one? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Yeah because living viruses and computer viruses are exactly the same thing.

    23. Re:So what's so special about this one? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      ok so If I go out and write a little chunk of asm that only effects X68 and attacks the mbr mac will be save cause its safe from pc viruses? hogwash, its immune to malware targeted for windows, just like my car is immune to diesel gelling cause its gas, doesnt mean the wheel wont fall off

    24. Re:So what's so special about this one? by oji-sama · · Score: 1

      Yes, I was actually trying to agree with you. And then I failed. /s/Well/Yes in my original reply would probably improve it.

      --
      It is what it is.
    25. Re:So what's so special about this one? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Yeah because living viruses and computer viruses are exactly the same thing.

      The so-called defining characteristic of a computer virus is that it replicates itself. There is a pedantic interpretation of "replicates itself" that precludes that human beings may act as an enabler.

      Just as HIV generally requires humans to do something stupid for it to spread, most modern 'malware' similarly requires humans to do something stupid.

    26. Re:So what's so special about this one? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Actually you don't have to do something stupid to get HIV. You can get it through a blood transfusion or possibly any exposure to certain bodily fluids or you can be born with it because your mom has it. I don't think I'd call a baby stupid because he was born which wasn't even his choice anyway.

      And a computer virus isn't meant to be a 100% like for like comparison to a real virus. Virus is just a generic term anyway and things like HIV are classed as retroviruses or lentiviruses so it's not even like they're all the same and rather than coming up with some sort of naming scheme for malicious code that mimics viruses we just use different terms because that's just how it is.

      The app that people are opening only has one purpose. It's not an infected file meant to trick the user.

    27. Re:So what's so special about this one? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Actually you don't have to do something stupid to get HIV.

      I didn't mean YOU have to do something stupid. Just that a person does. If you get HIV blood in a transfusion, wouldn't you agree that somebody fucked up pretty badly? If you are born with HIV ... your mom did something stupid before having you. Or maybe she got a transfusion ... either way... there was some human stupidity involved somewhere in the chain.

      The app that people are opening only has one purpose. It's not an infected file meant to trick the user.

      The pedantic definition of computer virus is that it is self-replicating. It doesn't say anything about any trickery.

      The original Stoned virus is a good example of a virus. And even it required humans to drag infected floppies from machine to machine. Today they require humans to click ok... and some subgroup of the pedants get their panties in a bunch because it requires "human stupidity" to spread... even though viruses always have required human stupidity to spread.

      Whether the human drags around the floppy disk and sticks it into vulnerable systems, or wanders around sticking Ethernet cords into vulnerable systems, these are essential steps for many classical viruses to spread. But as soon as a drive by infected ad requires a human to push "ok" on a vulnerable system... well... that's totally different right?

  6. Oh, damn by Mr.+Firewall · · Score: 1

    Now I have to add Uyghur Activist Porn to my list of porn sites to avoid, for fear of getting a virus...

    I sure hope I can remember not to click on any of that stuff.

    --
    In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
  7. Excuse me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was told there would be no viruses.

    1. Re:Excuse me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you're in luck. This is a trojan that requires you to install it yourself.

    2. Re:Excuse me... by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      Oh, so its like windows in bootcamp then?

    3. Re:Excuse me... by philofaqs · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm getting old but what was the last windows virus? That wasn't self inflicted and I mean virus by the current discussion, if apple define virus as something that only Windows can get then they are pretty safe in their claim.

    4. Re:Excuse me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like those trojans that came on floppy disks and required me to install them myself by simply inserting the disk into my computer?

  8. point-and-grunt? by Tynin · · Score: 1

    Reading that I feel like an old man, disconnected from the modern day. Is some new tech online porn technology that I've missed out on? Please... I NEED... TO... KNOW... !!!

  9. Point and grunt ? by billcopc · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pardon my crystallized forebrain, but what's "point-and-grunt" ? Is that one of those newfangled hipster Fail-on-Rails thingamabobs that goes into the weird rounded USB thing on my tee-vee ?

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:Point and grunt ? by raque · · Score: 1, Redundant

      I have to agree, three pages of Google and not one definition.

    2. Re:Point and grunt ? by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pardon my crystallized forebrain, but what's "point-and-grunt" ?

      It's a Zune function. It's what you do before you squirt.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Point and grunt ? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Pardon my crystallized forebrain, but what's "point-and-grunt" ? Is that one of those newfangled hipster Fail-on-Rails thingamabobs that goes into the weird rounded USB thing on my tee-vee ?

      I think it's the summary writer having a dig at the intelligence of Mac users, or if we're being generous, the intelligence of someone who would fall for a trojan in a general sense.

    4. Re:Point and grunt ? by billcopc · · Score: 0

      A winner is us. Also, hot grits.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    5. Re:Point and grunt ? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I don't know what's worse, having the grunts or having the squirts.

    6. Re:Point and grunt ? by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've heard the term before, but not for a while. When I used to hear it, it was a dig at the intelligence of GUI users, as opposed to people who used the CLI. Since the GUI's become so dominant, I haven't heard it nearly so much. Looks like the OP's a recessive.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    7. Re:Point and grunt ? by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Well it is pretty descriptive of how I take a shit, but that's PROBABLY not what they were going for.

    8. Re:Point and grunt ? by sco08y · · Score: 1

      I don't know what's worse, having the grunts or having the squirts.

      Try both. I'll never go to Taco Bob's again.

  10. Why is this news? by Grayhand · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's hard to blame Mac when you open an infected file. People have been unwittingly installing Malware and other infecting programs onto Macs for years. This is very different from one that propagates without the help of the user. It's a non story.

    1. Re:Why is this news? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, except when this happens in the PC world at least some subset of folks do blame Microsoft for it, and loudly.

      There was a time when Microsoft WAS at fault - back in the days of Slammer, for example. But most of the malware that goes around anymore relies on social engineering to propagate, because Windows and OS X are really pretty secure.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Why is this news? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft *was* at fault at times like when Outlook express' preview pane ran anything in the preview pane which was on by default so you could get infected by virture of a new email just coming in even if you'd be smart enough not to open it. Which is definitely different from a Mac asking you to be sure and you open it anyway.

    3. Re:Why is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it isn't hard to blame Apple. I used to sell Mac's, and many sales people told almost every customer that Mac's cannot get viruses (or trojan's) due to the way it is designed ("it's based on Unix"). Furthermore, Apple's own ads deceive users into believing this. Very few people on OSX have anti-virus, and that is purely Apple's fault.

      Microsoft on the other hand encourages users to remain secure, and install AV.

      Everyone who has been infected by Malware on Mac OSX would have a strong case to sue Apple for deceptive advertising

    4. Re:Why is this news? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft *was* at fault at times like when Outlook express' preview pane ran anything in the preview pane which was on by default so you could get infected by virture of a new email just coming in even if you'd be smart enough not to open it. Which is definitely different from a Mac asking you to be sure and you open it anyway.

      Except remember how Safari had a similar issue several years ago? It could automatically launch stuff that was downloaded just by virtue of you hitting the wrong page? That's why you get asked now - that was part of the fix Apple added to solve the problem.

      I've been a Mac user since 2003. I like the OS, and I think it's had a pretty good security track record overall... but Apple's definitely made a few missteps along the way. Nothing of the sheer magnitude of Slammer or Blaster - the only remote OS X exploit I can remember required the attacker to be on the same subnet (think it was an AFS exploit, but I might be mis-remembering).

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Why is this news? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      I realize it can be bad form to reply to oneself, but I wanted to correct one thing - the remote exploit I was thinking of was the 2003 local subnet DHCP exploit. That was a remote root exploit that required the attacker to be on the same subnet.

      The AFP exploit was from 2010, and could provide remote access to a user's home directory. Still bad, but not at the same level of bad.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re:Why is this news? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except remember how Safari had a similar issue several years ago? It could automatically launch stuff that was downloaded just by virtue of you hitting the wrong page?

      That particular issue was related to the definition of 'safe' files. By default, every web browser runs some kinds of files, in particular HTML and (usually) JavaScript and images. If you have a vulnerability in your png renderer or HTML parser, for example, then opening any web page will exploit the browser. The only difference with Safari was that PDF was included in the list of files that are safe. The same applies to most browsers with the Adobe plugin installed. The Adobe plugin has also had a number of vulnerabilities in recent years.

      The problem here wasn't running code by default, it was loading untrusted data through a large body of complex code outside a sandbox. Chromium and Safari (and, I think, IE9) now open everything that's downloaded from an untrusted source and loaded automatically in an environment with reduced privilege. The Chromium sandbox is a bit better (although it varies a lot depending on the platform: on Windows it's pretty poor) and runs at a finer granularity, so with Safari an exploit may still give an attacker access to state held by other tabs (the same applies to Chromium if you have more than some threshold number of tabs open - 20, I believe).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Why is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only a nonstory when the average Mac user also realises that they're not immune to Trojans or their own stupidity

  11. simple summary. by pbjones · · Score: 2

    this isn't a virus, it doesn't replicate. It's an email trojan. It's not a Mac or PC exploit, because it exploits the person not the machine. And it's got a very specific target. Thanks for the warning, I won't, and don't click on attachments anyway.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
    1. Re:simple summary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction

      If enough people use the term to mean something then it becomes accepted in language, therefore they are right and you are wrong. Please use the correct usage from now on thank you.

      Also if it send copied of itself by email then it does replicate, just that it doesn't exploit computer code but computer code plus humans.

  12. Fucking editors by Grudge2012 · · Score: 0

    Headline calls it a virus, submission text an exploit. It's neither, it's a fucking Trojan installing a backdoor. Even Kaspersky says so.

    1. Re:Fucking editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aww.. apple cheerleader got all worked up. Its ok sweetie..

  13. Quick! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Summon the fanboi spin squad! They have been getting a workout lately.

  14. Not a trojan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not a trojan, its a feature.

  15. Re:Impossible! by Demolition · · Score: 2

    No most users feel malware is malware outside of slashdot and saying its not a virus as a way to build your ego is stupid.

    The GP pointed out that a trojan horse is not a virus. Trojans need user interaction while viruses are self-propagating. Saying that most users can't tell the difference between them (as you appear to be insinuating) is just plain silly.

    Its like saying she is clean! Then you contract hepatitus. But she says she is virus free with a smile and goes on how clean she is.

    You've said this twice now. None of the previous commenters has said that Macs are immune to viruses. Either your English comprehension is lacking or you're deliberately trying to stir things up.

  16. Ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So you have to recieve an email from somone who has been infected, unzip the file, start the program, disregard the warning about running downloaded programs and type in root password?
    Scary stuff!
    You really deserve to e infected by then. :)

  17. And this is why.... by BulletMagnet · · Score: 1

    lists like http://www.okean.com/chinacidr.txt are nice and hand to feed into your edge router.

  18. kaspersky now shaking down apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they need to fucking stop. fuck russia. it was bad enough when these israeli and russian "anti-virus" shit heads were shaking down microsoft now their going after the big money with their scareware bullshit.

  19. Give me a fucking break by Legion303 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Kaspersky discovered that if users willingly execute files that turn out to be malicious, their computers will be backdoored.

    In other news, I discovered that fire produces heat. Please front-page this important announcement immediately.

    1. Re:Give me a fucking break by archen · · Score: 1

      Only if you burn an Apple.

    2. Re:Give me a fucking break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I remember correctly, I read that Macs are fire-proof. Where was it... can't find it. Ah, found: http://www.cso.com.au/article/428817/apple_removes_claim_macs_don_t_get_pc_viruses_/

  20. Yawn by Megane · · Score: 0, Troll

    Wake me up when they find something that can infect a Mac connected to the internet when no is one using it. You know, kind of like "install windows, connect to internet, pwned in 15 minutes"?

    Anyone can do a user-mode trojan that says "PLEEZE INSTAWL ME! I'M A UPGRAYD!"

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    1. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down, l33t twrms waz considered outdated when they stopped dev on BitchX

    2. Re:Yawn by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wake me up when they find something that can infect a Mac connected to the internet when no is one using it. You know, kind of like "install windows, connect to internet, pwned in 15 minutes"?

      Anyone can do a user-mode trojan that says "PLEEZE INSTAWL ME! I'M A UPGRAYD!"

      That was only an issue with Pre- WindowsXP-SP2 computers. SP2 was released 8 years ago. With SP2 Windows firewall came enabled by default, which protected unpatched services (like SMB) from being connected directly to the internet.

    3. Re:Yawn by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You mean like ms12-020? There are lots of others too. Just Google "windows remote exploits"

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
    4. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The firewall doesn't stop kernel IP stack vulnerabilities, like this one in Windows 7 http://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2011-2013/

      There are plenty of other firewall-on remote exploits for Windows post XP SP2. And there a ton (I think I counted 8 in Windows 7 alone) of others which can be exploited by someone on your local subnet by responding to the SMB broadcasts that Windows does by default. More if you can control a DNS server.

    5. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like someone hasn't heard of http://istherdpexploitoutyet.com/

    6. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look farther down that page, fool: It has patches for it!

    7. Re:Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An exploit that explicitly requires the user not only to activate a feature that is never enabled by default and further not exist on Home Edition, but to also run it in the non-recommended security setting?

    8. Re:Yawn by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      You mean like ms12-020? There are lots of others too. Just Google "windows remote exploits"

      " The following mitigating factors may be helpful in your situation:

      By default, the Remote Desktop Protocol is not enabled on any Windows operating system. Systems that do not have RDP enabled are not at risk. Note that on Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, Remote Assistance can enable RDP."

  21. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  22. Jesus, not again by sootman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know Slashdot editors are famously lazy ('sup, guys!) but why does the summary they posted say "The attachment tricks the Mac user into installing..." when TFA* clearly says "the [attack] described here relies on social engineering to get the user to run the backdoor"? You know, just like every single other Trojan out there?!?** The attachment itself is totally benign until someone clicks on it several times. (Even if you view the message with webmail with Safari's "Open 'safe' files after downloading" in its (admittedly brain-dead) default "checked" position***, you still have to click on the attachment link in your webmail and then double-click the visible file to run it.) The only way this actually happens is if someone reads the email and takes a few steps on their own. As always, the attachment itself does nothing.****

    Slashdot has been a techy news site for a decade and a half now. You'd think errors as blatant as this would get caught by the editors, even with their usual lack of checking.

    You know what would be an awesome site? Exactly what Slashdot is, but with better editors. (And maybe lay off the JavaScript some.)

    Anyway: sky is blue, water is wet, sun rises in the east, and all computers--by definition--are vulnerable to trojans. Film at 11.

    And by the way, WTF is "point-and-grunt"? Does that imply that users are dumbly clicking on things? If so, doesn't that also imply that the users just might be the problem? Trojans are trivially easy to write. Here's one in one line:

    echo "rm -rf ~/*" > NataliePortmanHotGrits.jpg.command; chmod 755 NataliePortmanHotGrits.jpg.command

    Voila. Type that into Terminal, email it to all of Slashdot, and wait for a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of home directories suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

    * I know no one here reads them, but I think the submitter should, right? Even if they don't, they should just submit the URL and not make up shit for the summary.

    ** Which is to say, like every single Mac "virus" of the last decade as well.

    *** Apple even puts "Safe" in quotes, so they obviously know that's not an ideal term. They should set it to "off" by default--and then remove the option.

    **** Unlike the bad old days with Outlook Express' infinitely more brain-dead "Hey, let me run that executable attachment for you!" setting.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:Jesus, not again by PPH · · Score: 2

      And yet, Slashdotters will still click on links promising more info. followed by [goatse.cx] and then scream, "My eyes!"

      Social engineering works.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Jesus, not again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that a virus? I typed it out like you said... I think it downloaded a Natalie Portman picture! How?!
      But then when I tried to open it, it disappeared.

    3. Re:Jesus, not again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not really the same thing, clicking a link to a website is not the same thing as downlading a file then running it.

  23. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MOD Billy Gates UP!

  24. wait, what? by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    So there's a Windows version of it that targets Tibetan activists but they bothered to make a mac version of it to...in case Tibetan activists had macs? WHAT?! I don't think they have that kind of money. Something doesn't quite add up there. Whatever, I don't care as long as it knock Apple down a peg again. That "we're magically immune to viruses" crap they finally removed from their website was about 10 years overdue.

    1. Re:wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With that kind of fanboyism, I guess it's a good thing you don't have a clue about computer security. A virus takes advantage of a security hole in software and spreads itself around, like the shit that's been flowing around the Windows world for decades. The fact is, Apple has a stellar security record compared to Microsoft because they have always written software using best security practices, and don't have NIH syndrome which causes MS to make the same mistakes the Unix community figured out in the 70s.

    2. Re:wait, what? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      what the activits actually have doesn't matter, what matters is what the guys selling surveillance software to china can sell.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  25. Well that kills that myth... by xQuarkDS9x · · Score: 0

    Well this pretty much kills that myth that Mac's have been mostly immune to viruses and malware. Especially if it shows pictures of Steve Jobs to which your typical mac fanboy/girl will pray to the almighty Jobs in Apple Heaven and rapidly click to install this.

    --
    You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
    1. Re:Well that kills that myth... by cheros · · Score: 2

      I never believed that anyway. What IS interesting, however, is that every AV vendor now actively prevents analysis of how many virus infections exits per platform, which is actually a very significant bit of data.

      Windows malware numbers in the millions (30M, last time I was able to get a figure), whereas OSX malware numbers somewhere in the 40K by now. That's a shade over 1% of the exposure that Windows platforms have - which still makes it a heck of a lot less risky.

      The only drive-by infection (Java based) has now been addressed, so I'd say that if you don't install stuff you don't know you're still better off using OSX (or Linux, I'm hoping someone who actually understands usability will get involved on that platform).

      But there is no excuse not to install anti virus software on OSX - facts are still better than myth..

      --
      Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
    2. Re:Well that kills that myth... by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      But there is no excuse not to install anti virus software on OSX

      Other than the one you just mentioned - 40,000 vs 30,000,000? It would make more sense to wear crash helmets and flame-retardant clothing when driving than to install anti-virus software on a Mac...

    3. Re:Well that kills that myth... by cheros · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I disagree. I'd wear flame proof clothing with an iPhone 4 or a Dell laptop because of the batteries, but I digress.

      40.000 still means 40k opportunities to get into serious problems - it is important not to rely on myth, but on hard facts. I tend to upset Linux people with that question too when they tell em proudly they do not have a virus: how do you KNOW?

      Even when you do everything right, the fact remains that you have no *evidence* to prove that your efforts have worked - unless you have a way to scan the machine, a sort of independent 3rd party assessment. It doesn't matter how good you are as a sysadmin - I am happy to believe you, but there is no way you can be sure unless you scan the platform.

      For the record, I've been using Linux since Slackware came on floppies, so I'm not having a go at people using a different platform (I've only been using OSX for 2 years) - we are simply talking about following good processes but STILL do an audit to make sure those processes are actually effective. Belief doesn't cut it :).

      --
      Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  26. Just use bzip2 or 7zip. Problem solved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    which propogates through a zipfile attachment.

    Apple builds an operating system from BSD, and we're still using zip? what is wrong with society? bzip2 has been around for a LONG time, and has MUCH better compression. LZMA (used by 7zip) is better yet. Start using the decent software that comes bundled with your OS, and maybe I'll listen to a complaint about it.

  27. Misuse of the term "encrypted". by Dwonis · · Score: 2
    This sentence is downright terrible:

    Embedded in the virus is an encrypted IP address belonging to a server in China which is believed to be a C+C server.

    Not only does it misuse the term "virus", as you mentioned, but it also misuses the term "encrypted". The correct term here is "obfuscated". The obfuscation code might happen to contain something that looks very similar to AES, but it isn't encryption (and it certainly isn't AES) if the "key" can just be recovered from the executable.

    1. Re:Misuse of the term "encrypted". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the entire payload (save a small "bootstrap" that simply had a decryption key and decryption code) was encrypted, this would block most antivirus programs from picking it up immediately -- especially if the key was randomly generated.

  28. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought it was worms that were self-propagating and viruses actually overwrite or append to system files.

  29. Re:Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure - and they're just such "nice programs", just like viruses!

  30. Demographic attack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simple reasoning:

    "Free-tibet sceners are most likely to use macs."

    I wonder how effective it was?

  31. Silent Install? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this install silently or does it ask for a user/pass?

    1. Re:Silent Install? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume it runs with the access rights of the currently logged-in user. So the maximum damage is limited to what the currently logged-in user can read/write. Which could be irrelevant (if a special user for webbrowsing is used) or pretty dramatic (if a corporate CEO does it while being connected to all sorts of confidential file servers and databases).

      As others said, it is NOT a virus.

  32. According To The Courts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft has been using all sorts of sleazy business tactics to destroy competition and to extract as much money from their customers (who could only buy from monopolist Microsoft) as somehow possible.

    According to many observers, Microsoft has trolls like you doing Negative Propaganda on sites like this. Just bring it on, I have a nice Flammenwerfer here. You know, the one fueled with Hydrazine.

  33. How Can You Say THAT ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "AV software alone is worth nothing"

    Can't you think about all the antivirus vendors and their hundreds of millions of victims ? They have set up such a nice scam to have nice jobs and yachts for the bosses in Florida, the Med and the Black Sea !! Be ashamed to undermine that nice system !!!!

  34. Citation Required by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you prove your claim's accuracy ? Maybe it actually is one of the bazillion of Windows Weaknesses such as the recently fixed "Icon Parser Exploit" issue ? Maybe your claim is just wishful thinking ?

  35. Because M$ and the Virus Scanner Scammers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..are trumpeting up something for their respective financial gain, which actually is a none-issue (it is the same as a Windows machine receiving an email with an *.exe attached). That is interesting, and should be flamed to the full extent.

  36. Yeah, "Industry Standard" Cannot Stand The Truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We know, that is standard M$ propaganda mode. "Security Development Lifecyle" and all that. Sometimes I think Bill Gates is a Comedian.

  37. Actually Proves MacOS X Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chinese Intelligence have historically tried to gain access to dissident/separatist computers by means of quite sophisticated attacks such as malware-infested PDFs which used Weaknesses in Acrobat Reader.

    They attack Macs using a Purely Social Engineering attack. That implies there are no PDF exploits on the Mac. And again, this is not a Virus at all. Go playing with the Windows idiots, Virus Scanner Scammers !

  38. Re:Windows IS still a Security Nightmare by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 2

    Or maybe she installed a program and it was bundled, like about a hundred other programs that can be installed via bundling. Just try and install a Java update without it asking to install a toolbar.

  39. yo dawg by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I find it difficult when people refer to thier computers as "hard drives" bit I make a point to not correct them as that would make me an arse.

    Not really. What would you do if the hard drive broke - put a new hard drive in the "hard drive"?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  40. Where is the resale information by Douglas+Goodall · · Score: 1

    I read postings until my eyes became tired, and never found any valuable responses about the original posting. Like how we avoid this problem. Does anyone have valuable feedback about this to help us Mac users avoid this trouble?

  41. Very, very Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Always make sure to only execute programs from a legitimate source. Never, ever execute a program that was sent to you by mail. Even if the mail also contains a picture of a nice girl from Moldavia with huge boobs who asks you to do that. When you download a program, never use scammer sites such as softonic or the like. Always identify the original site and download programs only from these sites. (e.g. Firefox from mozilla.org). If in doubt where to get a certain piece of software, ask people for help. Either in reality or in internet forums.

    Once again, the Windows faction and their sleazy backers from Redmond are trying to paint it as if other systems were as insecure as Windows, and this incident is absolutely 0% proof of that claim.

  42. Re:Windows IS still a Security Nightmare by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

    She got what we call a "bundle bite" which is common as dirt friend and comes from "free" software, all that means is she just went "clicky clicky next next next" and refused to even take 4 seconds to look at what she was agreeing to. Since most of the bundle bites have a checkbox that you can uncheck to keep out the toolbars I'd be hard pressed to call that one anything but PEBKAC since unlike a bug they aren't trying to trick you, they just figure you're too damned lazy to even uncheck a checkbox.

    BTW next time she needs some software, mind a suggestion? Ninite has all the third party stuff most folks want, media players and browsers and messengers and all kinds of software and TOOLBAR FREE so she doesn't even have to uncheck any checkboxes, its fully automated. Just have her check a box for each piece of software she wants and run it, simple as that. You can even use it to see if you have the latest versions as it'll skip any install that is up to date.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.