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Nobel Laureate Wiped From Pakistan's Textbooks As Heretic

Hugh Pickens writes writes "Alexander Abad-Santos writes that in any other country, the late Dr. Abdus Salam would be a national hero: he's the Nobel laureate in physics who laid the groundwork for the biggest physics discovery in the past 30 years--the Higgs boson. But that isn't the case in Pakistan, where Salam has been wiped from textbooks and history for not being fundamentalist enough. 'He belonged to the Ahmadi sect, which has been persecuted by the government and targeted by Taliban militants who view its members as heretics,' says Sebastian Abbot. 'His grand unification theory of strong, weak and electromagnetic fields opened the gateway for the discovery of bosons and laid down the basis for this quantum electrodynamics project,' writes Anam Khalid Alvi for Pakistan's Express Tribune. But Pakistan can't celebrate his achievements, since Ahmadis like Salam are and were prevented from 'posing as Muslims,' and can be punished with prison and even death. By contrast, fellow Pakistani physicist A.Q. Khan, who played a key role in developing the country's nuclear bomb and later confessed to spreading nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya, is considered a national hero. Khan is a Muslim."

43 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. Ah don't worry... by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Remember, it's all fine, carry on. They keep saying it's a religion of peace and all that. Don't forget that they scrubbed "muslim" off his grave. And other muslims in the region are expected to go out of their way to persecute them.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:Ah don't worry... by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Informative

      280 people killed in the last killed by muslim terrorists between June 23 and June 29th. 1173 people killed by muslim terrorists in June alone. 19,187 terrorist attacks by muslims since 9/11.

      Depending on what stats you're using, between 18,000 and 24,000 people die every year from lightening strikes. Depending on how busy the "religion of peace" is they can exceed that in a year, they did that two years ago.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Ah don't worry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's Bing?

    3. Re:Ah don't worry... by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More people get killed by lightning in a couple of months than from terrorism in the last few years.

      Where is the war on lightning?

      Oh... you can't funnel money to corporate buddies if you have a war on lightning.

      This isn't about "terrorism". The routine killing, rape and subjugation of non-Muslims in muslim countries is "business as usual". Its only when they do something to Westerners that they say it is an "act of Terrorism" by a "tiny minority"

    4. Re:Ah don't worry... by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google doesn't recognize him either. There's no doodle of him. But if you search for him on Bing, you find all the relevant info.

      I think this google search shows that there are lies, damn lies, and Microsoft fanboiism.

    5. Re:Ah don't worry... by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually lightning fatalities are about 24,000 a year.

      http://www.vaisala.com/Vaisala%20Documents/Scientific%20papers/Annual_rates_of_lightning_fatalities_by_country.pdf

      The fact that you could have just used google to find that instead of trying to spread vitriol says a lot about you.

    6. Re:Ah don't worry... by vlm · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's Bing?

      Its a heretical search engine. Don't follow the path of brimstone and eternal damnation, stick to god's one true search engine. We of /. are the Mighty GOOGs chosen ones anyway.

      (Just wanted to answer in character w/ the article)

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:Ah don't worry... by nschubach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      https://www.google.com/webhp?q=Bing

      (Hit the I'm feeling lucky button if you like... if not, all your answers can be found via Google!)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    8. Re:Ah don't worry... by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 4, Funny

      How do you think *I* feel?

      I'm of Scottish Ancestry.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    9. Re:Ah don't worry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, nice choice of source material. I'm sure that's entirely fair and well-considered.

      The important part is that, being in a shit-hole place with shit education where everyone has been miserably poor for centuries has much more to do with you being a violent scumbag than the particular batshit superstitions you subscribe to.

      Meanwhile, any muslim you meet in the states is almost certainly a non-violent person. At least on percentage with christians or atheists.

      But yeah, it's all insanity and we need to eradicate religion in all forms for the good of our species.

    10. Re:Ah don't worry... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      280 people killed in the last killed by muslim terrorists between June 23 and June 29th. 1173 people killed by muslim terrorists in June alone. 19,187 terrorist attacks by muslims since 9/11.

      19,187 separate attacks? Can we get a citation for this? Or some methodology? While thereligionofpeace.com seems totally unbiased, I'd like to know where that number comes from. If 11 years (or so) have passed since 9/11/01, that's 1744 and a quarter attacks per year, or 4 and three quarters attacks per day, not taking time off for Ramadan, for 11 years. Just seems like a lot is all.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    11. Re:Ah don't worry... by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 4, Funny

      A true scotsman wouldn't make such a fuss about it...

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
    12. Re:Ah don't worry... by vlm · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, as a geek I'm finding that the GOOG is letting me down more and more.

      My son, I feel your pain, you need to restore your faith in the one, true, mighty, GOOG. Perhaps were you wantonly coveting your neighbors iPhone instead of bowing in reverence to our masters Android come down from heaven? The Mighty GOOG knows your thoughts, and shame on you. Now when our elders and ancestors suffered a shortage of mailbox diskspace quota, did not our holy master deliver us gmail, raining down disk space from the data CLOUD in the sky? Did not his mightyness roll back the google WAVE on his very command? Does he not make a data CLOUD rain RSS updates of /.s stories into his mighty goog Reader? Now step over here and let me make the sign of the goog PLUS on your forehead and sin no more. Say 50 www.google.com's while meditating on not falling into following the evil minon of shiney rounded rectanges, St Jobs, or St Gates of the UEFI apocalypse, and I suspect your images.google.com searches for the mighty cavern of goatse will once again be successful. So help us, as we kneel toward MountainView in supplication.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    13. Re:Ah don't worry... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually lightning fatalities are about 24,000 a year.

      http://www.vaisala.com/Vaisala%20Documents/Scientific%20papers/Annual_rates_of_lightning_fatalities_by_country.pdf

      The fact that you could have just used google to find that instead of trying to spread vitriol says a lot about you.

      Thor does not claim to be peaceful.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    14. Re:Ah don't worry... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      280 people killed in the last killed by muslim terrorists between June 23 and June 29th. 1173 people killed by muslim terrorists in June alone. 19,187 terrorist attacks by muslims since 9/11.

      This from an anti-Muslim hate site. No supporting citations to their numbers, but they promise to "supply sources upon request". Instead of each item linking to some citation, they link to other pages on the anti-Muslim hate site that says the exact same thing as the item.

      Did you know that I'm the Emperor Napoleon? I can supply proof upon request. Instructions on how to request that proof can be found at http:\\morequestionsthananswers.con.

      There are plenty of reasons to be oppose violent Muslim extremists without having to resort to that kind of baloney. If you were really trying to make a valid point in good faith, Mashiki, you could have done so. Instead, you expose only yourself.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:Ah don't worry... by sneakyimp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Allah is not the only god in whose name atrocities have been committed and the Koran is not the only poorly written, poorly translated, self-contradictory book purportedly containing the One True God's Word that has been used to justify atrocities. I would agree that religions are usually silly and find it laughable that someone might single out Islam as the silliest one. Christianity -- with so much lip service given to peace and forgiveness -- is every bit as silly. Anyone remember the Crusades?

    16. Re:Ah don't worry... by Loopy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Might have been helpful to read the rest of the conversation about how most of the other religions (Christianity especially) have learned from their mistakes.

      Furthermore, nobody asserted Islam was the "silliest" of the bunch -- just the most lethal to non-believers.

    17. Re:Ah don't worry... by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It'd be interesting to know how many of the people killed were Muslims themselves. I'd guess a majority in any year. If a bomber blows up a couple dozen police recruits in an Iraqi city, we chalk those up as deaths due to Islamic terrorism, which strictly speaking they are, but they could just as easily chalked up a civil war deaths.

      There are 2.6 million Muslims in the US. That's a lot of people. If, say, 10% were what our media like to call "jihadis", that'd be 260,000 people living here who want to kill us because we're not Muslims. If 1% of those jihadis made at least one attempt each year, that'd be at least 2,600 domestic Islamic terror attacks. It'd be easy for them too. They live here, they know our weaknesses, often can pass as non-muslim if need be -- that's not counting their recent converts of European ancestry (we know converts are usually among the most zealous in any religion). They don't need Al Qaeda to teach them how to make bombs when they have the Internet.

      So how many people in the US have been killed since 9/11 by this fifth column? So far as I can see, none. If Muslim==terrorist, there should be thousands of people killed every year here. Probably tens of thousands killed a year. Why isn't anyone keeping track?

      How low does suspicion have to go before you chuck it out the window? 99.99%? Well that 1 in 10,000. Applied to the 2.6 million Muslims in the US, that's 260 American Muslim terrorists. That's almost surely too high, given the lack of any deaths in the US from home-grown Muslim terrorists, but let's go with that. Your chance of running into a Muslim terrorist here in the US is about the same (under these unfavorable assumptions) as bumping into a retired NASA astronaut.

      The idea that Islam somehow makes someone inclined to terror does not hold up if you control for circumstances (e.g. look at American Muslims).

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    18. Re:Ah don't worry... by bhlowe · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ah, I see what you did.. you compared a country with a religion.. Not quite the assignment, but I can work with it.. Lets see, in Saudi Arabia, you can be executed by beheading, stoning, or firing squad. In the US, its primarlily lethal injection. In the US, capital punishment is reserved almost exclusively for murder. In Saudi Arabia, you can be executed for witchcraft, sorcery, adultery (between two consenting adults) drug use, or simply rejecting Islam.

      The war in Iraq was never a crusade, and "Operation Just Crusade" is never existed. (Feel free to prove otherwise.)

    19. Re:Ah don't worry... by bitt3n · · Score: 5, Interesting

      being in a shit-hole place with shit education where everyone has been miserably poor for centuries has much more to do with you being a violent scumbag than the particular batshit superstitions you subscribe to.

      actually, terrorists tend on average to be relatively wealthy and well-educated, from relatively well-to-do countries

    20. Re:Ah don't worry... by sneakyimp · · Score: 3, Informative

      I compared the United States to Saudi Arabia. Last time I checked, they are both countries. What's more, and somewhat interestingly, the United States sells an enormous amount of weaponry to Saudi Arabia and doesn't really give them a hard time about the human rights issues. We are complicit in the hegemony of the Saudi Royal family more than any other country in the world. One might say the US and SA are thick as thieves. My comparison of the two is meant as an analog to the religious issue because the United States is arguably the most Christian nation in the world and Saudi Arabia the most Islamic. The US is somewhat more diverse religion-wise, but is predominantly Christian. I believe the comparison is a fair one and the similarities (and political ties) are too extensive to be dismissed so easily.

      But, if you want to get technical, you have to admit that US Citizens can also be killed by the US government without any trial whatsoever. If you are not a US Citizen but happen to live in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Yemen or Sudan or a variety of other places the United States has targeted, you can also be killed there via drone attack. Your flimsy assertion that one can only be killed "primarily by lethal injection" conveniently ignores the entire scope of death dealt out by agents of the United States government. Also, if you insist on focussing arbitrarily on the means of death meted out by our judicial system in the United States, then you must acknowledge that you can opt to be killed by lethal injection, hanging, electric chair, or firing squad in various US states. There is also some debate as to how painful (or terrifying) death by lethal injection might be. Until recently in Arkansas, the components of this deadly cocktail were determined at the discretion of the Department of Corrections and not by any objective standard of human decency or medical expertise.

      The war in Iraq was never a crusade

      What the hell does that mean to you exactly? The word "crusade" is infested with conflicting connotations. Most connotations I can discern seem entirely apt. I would argue it is remarkably similar to the original Crusades both in its rationale, its conception, and its results.

    21. Re:Ah don't worry... by Pseudonym · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't forget that they scrubbed "muslim" off his grave. And other muslims in the region are expected to go out of their way to persecute them.

      This, incidentally, highlights a key point in understanding Wahhabism and Qutbism. However much you think that this particular brand of Islamism is a threat to the West, you're far more likely to be killed, persecuted or generally targeted by them if you're Muslim.

      To put it another way, the fact that Al Qaeda and the Taliban is far more of a threat to Islam than to anything else could be considered evidence that (mainstream) Islam is a religion of peace. That's why they hate it so much.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    22. Re:Ah don't worry... by Pseudonym · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Meanwhile, any muslim you meet in the states is almost certainly a non-violent person.

      Incidentally, that's also true of the Islamic world. If you are a Muslim, you are far more likely to be the victim of an Islamist terrorist than you are to be an Islamist terrorist or sympathiser thereof. That's partly because Islamist terrorists mostly target Muslims.

      The "religion of peace" also spawned the Arab Spring.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    23. Re:Ah don't worry... by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, nice choice of source material. I'm sure that's entirely fair and well-considered.

      Yeah, well if you looked at the source material. You'd have seen that the source material is taken directly from...dun, dun, dun da, ta-da-ta...the news media. So unless you think that Reuters, AFI, AJE(Arab), and so on have this incredible bias to not report on the news. You're just being an idiot.

      Let's not forget, that while you're parroting your view on the "almost certainly" that a dozen muslims were arrested in the UK for planning terrorist attacks on the Olympics. And before that, 30 more were arrested for grooming young girls and prostituting them in slave like conditions. And in the US itself, you had a few cases of sudden Jihad syndrome, in Dearborne, where some tried to run some Christians over for having differing points of view(does it matter they were being assholes? not really.) And let's not forget Ft. Hood either, that one is still on-going, but despite what the media keeps telling you he was a muslim, and it was another homegrown terrorist attack.

      But let me ask you this, between Christians, Jews and Muslims can you tell me the difference between the three? The first two had reformations and keep their crazies in line. The last one actively persecutes their reformists as we see today, and as we see today, people are still supporting the crazies, and are railing against the reformers. I think you have more serious issues.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  2. Faith is a poison, when you use it as one by ackthpt · · Score: 3

    Rather a shame the way people can't respect one faith from another.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  3. Backwards country by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What kind of backwards country would modify their curriculum to fit religious ideals?

    http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/12/texas-removes-thomas-jefferson-from-teaching-standard/

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Backwards country by Oh+Gawwd+Peak+Oil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But hey, at least you got your +5, America Bashing mod

      It's called not being hypocritical.

      It would be hypocritical to sit around laughing arrogantly at Pakistan, while ignoring the fact that right here at home we can do similar things as well.

      It may not be politically correct point out uncomfortable things about our own country, and you may get all offended and call it "America Bashing," but it is reality.

  4. I am laughing by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A group of idiots deprives themselves of an opportunity to feel some extra national pride in what can only be described as "shitting into one's own shoes", if I were to literally translate a proverb from my native tongue. Serves them right. I wouldn't want to be in their textbooks either, I'd feel dirty.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  5. More proof as if we needed any by cvtan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Religious" governments are ALWAYS a bad idea.

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
    1. Re:More proof as if we needed any by bmo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I couldn't agree more.

      Yet there is one faction of our government here in the US that has played the religion card since the "Southern Strategy". Barry Goldwater decried that they would never be rid of them.

      And so far he's been more than right - it's only gotten worse.

      The percentage of people in the US who are creationists is always polled in the high 40s. We're not that far away from Pakistan. While it may seem like a good political idea to pander to religious nutters, all we have to do to look at what would happen without the "wall of separation between Church & State", as Jefferson put it in his letter to the Danbury Baptists, is to look to the governments of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, et al. And if you listen to many Republicans, especially the ones who are dominionists and members of The Family, they're not that far off from the Taliban. Don't forget, there were *four* Republican candidates running for President that "God" told them to run. Fortunately all 4 dropped out. God's got a sense of humour, apparently.

      But the fact remains, we had 4 wild-eyed religious whackos running for President and they were all treated seriously. That was unprecedented. And the broader Republican caucus is full of moronic bible thumpers.

      Barry Goldwater spins in his grave at high RPM. I am working on wrapping his dust and the dust of Roger Williams and William Penn in coils of wire to generate electricity and solve the energy crisis. I just need grant or VC money.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:More proof as if we needed any by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are they? Looking at history, all the most successful government before the 20th century had implied or official state religions. And even in the mundane, there's plenty of examples such as Pre-Communist Russia, which was officially Orthodox and where the church had a great deal of power, wasn't the most successful government. But at least it didn't murder tens of millions of its own citizens.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    3. Re:More proof as if we needed any by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Informative

      You mean like Great Britain's theocracy?

      It hasn't been a practical theocracy for a while, but the Queen is the head of the state church and the Church of England has representation in the House of Lords.

      [there that will stir things up a bit]

  6. Not grand unification by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was electroweak unification. Important enough.

    (So far, all attempts at grand unification have failed, including Einstein's.)

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  7. Ridiculous comparison by daveschroeder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People can handle accidental, isolated deaths. Yes, someone dies, but there is no malicious force that caused it.

    People can handle mass-death less easily, even when it's accidental (or not intentional). But things like the sinking of the Titantic, air disasters, bus accidents, and similar still disproportionately capture attention.

    People cannot accept someone else who is out to kill them intentionally because of hatred or a belief system. Yes, foreign policy, resources, economics, geopolitics, and myriad other nuances are involved here, but it really is that simple at its core.

    The reason there ever was a "war on terror" isn't to "funnel money to corporate buddies" — it's because, to be blunt, we don't put up with that shit, even if our response is imperfect — not to mention that Europe and the West has enjoyed US defense-by-proxy for over a half-century. The fact that war is an economic driver is incidental (even if it can be argued to be important in its own way). But make no mistake: when US policy makers of any political stripe make the decision to go to war, the thinking isn't, "Hey, this can line the pockets of my corporate buddies!! Lulz!"

    But I know that you and many other readers here are cynical (and ignorant) enough to actually twist a story about Pakistan and Islam into, yet again in true topsy-turvy bizarro-world style, how the US is evil. (Same thing happened with the recent Syria Wikileaks story.) It might be amusing if it weren't so predictable, pathetic, and shameful.

    1. Re:Ridiculous comparison by Hatta · · Score: 5, Interesting

      People can handle accidental, isolated deaths. Yes, someone dies, but there is no malicious force that caused it. ...

      People cannot accept someone else who is out to kill them intentionally because of hatred or a belief system.

      I find sporadic intentional, malicious deaths to be far more acceptable than widespread preventable accidental deaths. Any decent human being would feel the same. The important thing is to minimize the loss of human life. Whether there's intentionality behind the deaths is irrelevant.

      The problem is, most people aren't decent human beings and care more about being slighted by foreigners than about actually saving lives.

      The reason there ever was a "war on terror" isn't to "funnel money to corporate buddies" â" it's because, to be blunt, we don't put up with that shit

      What's sad is that you probably actually believe that. If that were actually true, we'd have actual reasons for going to war, instead of flimsy pretexts.

      e.g. Afghanistan, we're there to get Bin Laden, but once we get there we stop looking for him and waste years spending money for nothing. Who does that benefit besides military contractors?

      e.g. Iraq. What reason is there to invent a non-existant link between Saddam Hussein and OBL, and hype up non-existent WMDs based on evidence that was known to be false?

      Why did we go intervene in Lybia and haven't done much yet in Syria? One's an oil producing nation, the other isn't.

      You've made a bold assertion in that "we don't put up with that shit". What sort of mechanisms are in place to prevent that shit from happening? If a well connected vice president actually decided to go to war in order to benefit his cronies, how does the system prevent that? What reason is there to believe that ANY US politician makes ANY decision without considering how it would profit their friends and campaign contributors?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Ridiculous comparison by demachina · · Score: 4, Interesting

      " But make no mistake: when US policy makers of any political stripe make the decision to go to war, the thinking isn't, "Hey, this can line the pockets of my corporate buddies!! Lulz!"

      Well actually there was LBJ, he was a pretty successful war profiteer on Bell helicopter, General Dynamics fighters and his buddy ran Brown and Root. Brown and Root did very profitable general contracting for the military in Vietnam.

      Brown and Root became Kellog Brown and Root and ended up owned by Halliburton which Dick Cheney used to war profiteer in Iraq 30 years later. The second Iraq war turned in to one massive exercise in war profiteering for people well connected with the Republican party. The U.S. would fly in plane loads of 100 dollar bills and they would be made to disappear. How else do you explain the Bush administrations overwhelming urge to invade Iraq. There was no actual rational reason for it that wasn't a lie.

      War profiteering is as old as war, Dave. Are you actually that naive or do you not even believe the stuff you're writing anymore.

      Profiteering may not be the prime reason for a war but it sure is a huge fringe benefit for the well connected.

      --
      @de_machina
    3. Re:Ridiculous comparison by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      People cannot accept someone else who is out to kill them intentionally because of hatred or a belief system. Yes, foreign policy, resources, economics, geopolitics, and myriad other nuances are involved here, but it really is that simple at its core.

      While there is some irrational hatred at play, the fact remains that the US and its allies have been overthrowing governments, propping up dictators, and generally fucking with many countries in the Middle East for over 50 years now. I'd say it adds up to a bit more than nuance.

      The reason there ever was a "war on terror" isn't to "funnel money to corporate buddies" — it's because, to be blunt, we don't put up with that shit, even if our response is imperfect — not to mention that Europe and the West has enjoyed US defense-by-proxy for over a half-century. The fact that war is an economic driver is incidental (even if it can be argued to be important in its own way). But make no mistake: when US policy makers of any political stripe make the decision to go to war, the thinking isn't, "Hey, this can line the pockets of my corporate buddies!! Lulz!"

      The reasons for the War on Terror are myriad. Many players are interested in it for their own reasons. For the defense contractors and the banks, the purpose of the War on Terror is very much to make money. That $500 billion the Pentagon spends every year has to go into someones' pocket. And the debt to finance the war has to come from somewhere. Not much gets done in America that doesn't have a profit motive.

      But I know that you and many other readers here are cynical (and ignorant) enough to actually twist a story about Pakistan and Islam into, yet again in true topsy-turvy bizarro-world style, how the US is evil. (Same thing happened with the recent Syria Wikileaks story.) It might be amusing if it weren't so predictable, pathetic, and shameful.

      On the world stage it's never about good and evil. It's about power and control; who has it and who wants it. It's as simple as that.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  8. The dose makes the poison by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally I am an atheist, but it seems that low-levels of religious belief seem to do most people little harm and some good and at least in smaller communities seem to provide a certain amount of greater good & charity which might otherwise go missing.

    It would be nice if the people involved could just enjoy getting together for the sake of getting together and do charitable works because helping people is usually the right thing to do without shame-based moralizing and all the hocus pocus, but human experience seems to suggest a more Hobbesian outcome without some kind of organizational direction.

  9. Re:Ah don't worry...ALL! by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you saying ALL Muslims follow the Taliban? Would any of you have a problem with saying ALL Atheists are baby killers?

    You are setting up a nice straw man there. Not all Muslims follow the Taliban, but all Muslims follow a cdoctrine that says that non-Muslims must be killed or accept inferior status. Read the Qur'an.

  10. Re:Ah don't worry...ALL! by nschubach · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Bible has it's fair share of questionable text. So...to be fair, it all depends on who reads and teaches the document. If you read any book as the truth and fact, you are in for a very dark world. One thing I've learned about religion in general is that you have to take the words with a grain of skepticism to even start to be a rational person. (I've chosen to flow on the side of non-belief myself, but whatever.)

    --
    Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  11. Re:Oh, Please! Don't Be So Globally Provincial! by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comparing the Extremism the Fundamentalist Islamists get away with around the world to whatever drama the Fundamentalist Christians try to perpetrate is -- really -- just ridiculous.

    Not really - Just a matter of degree, limited solely by how much power each group has over their respective countries... AIDS sucks more than the flu, but you don't really want to catch either of them.

    But hey, I hear ya - It makes perfect sense to devote the full resources of the US government to hashing out whether or not whores... er... "young women"... should have the right to autonomy over their own bodies when it comes to reproductive health. Certainly, no fine upstanding Fundies would suggest beating people to death just because their god whispers sweet, sweet nothings to them in the dark...


    Religion is a disease, which any sane person would seek to cure ASAP.

  12. It's not just a problem with sectarianism by jheath314 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would argue that on top of the sectarian issues in this particular case, there is a major lack scientific achievement in that region of the world. Dr. Abdus Salam is one of only two Nobel laureates from a Muslim country. Islamic Universities have a shockingly low output (only 300 out of the 1800 universities in the region have even _one_ faculty member who has ever published anything. Compare that to Western Universities where typically every faculty member will have publications.)

    Part of the problem might be the rote learning paradigm that dominates in the middle east. Free inquiry and critical thinking are probably discouraged in a region dominated by so many authoritarian regimes. However, I would argue that one of the main reasons science has failed to flourish in Arab-Islamic countries is the legacy of one man: Abu Hamid al-Ghazali.

    Al-Ghazali helped codify and unify several competing schools of Islamic thought, binding them around the central premise of rejecting outside influences to concentrate on spiritualism and devotion to God. While European philosophy focused on understanding the material world, al-Ghazali focused instead on the supernatural. After the Crusades destroyed the Islamic world's scientific Golden Age, al-Ghazadi's anti-scientific philosophy held sway and kept the region from experiencing the kind of Renaissance that moved Europe out of the dark ages.

    --
    Procrastination Man strikes again!
  13. Re:Both sides are wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The beliefs that make KKK whacko don't come from Christianity

    Clearly you have never read the Bible or the KKK's hate literature. There's considerable overlap - look up the Heresy of Peor, for example. God rewards Phinehas and all his seed for the extrajudicial murder of Zimri, who has committed miscegenation. Or check out the Prophet Ezra's viewpoint on race-mixing - the KKK is right in line.

    and they're not backed by any kind of government.

    At some points in US history, the KKK has run governments - such as the Indiana state government in 1925, for instance.

    They invented their own crazy

    The only "crazy" they invented on their own was the curious idea that Christianity wasn't founded by Jews.

    Fortunately they're dwindling in numbers.

    Amen to that, brother.