Slashdot Mirror
Study Finds Alcohol, Not Marijuana, Is the Biggest Gateway Drug For Teens
An anonymous reader writes with news of a study out of the University of Florida which found that alcohol is the biggest "gateway" drug, the use of which increases the likelihood of other drug use. Quoting:
"In the sample of students, alcohol also represented the most commonly used substance, with 72.2 percent of students reporting alcohol consumption at some point in their lifetime. Comparatively, 45 percent of students reported using tobacco, and 43.3 percent cited marijuana use. In addition, the drug use documented found that substance use typically begins with the most socially acceptable drugs, such as alcohol and cigarettes, then proceeds to marijuana use and finally to other illegal, harder drugs. Moreover, the study showed that students who used alcohol exhibited a significantly greater likelihood — up to 16 times — of licit and illicit substance use."
Somebody please tag this "obvious".
I started smoking weed far before I ever had a beer. Alcohol's what's being put on a pedestal, so people seek it out.
Who goes straight from the soda pop to the joint? That's pretty messed up. It's like a board game. First you. Must land on the bud light square, then the tequila square, and probably the abusing prescription drugs square.
I was drunk first time I ever smoked.
This should be tagged #noshitsherlock. Seriously, the only reason pot is demonized is because the tobacco and booze industries own too many politicians (and vice-versa).
Anyone who's grown up around people with substance abuse problems already knows this. Everyone I know with drug issues started out with alcohol issues.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
studies also show that nearly 100% of hardcore drug users have previously tried water before moving on. the connection is there is no such thing as a gateway drug but every hysterical person on the planet seems to believe that there is.
The idea of a specific drug being a "gateway" to others is incredibly misleading. Alcohol and weed are the obvious places to start because they're the easiest to obtain. You're going to get to harder drugs eventually if you're that type of person, but no one is just going to start at heroin.
hi
It may be obvious that marijuana is relatively safe to anyone who actually knows about marijuana and alcohol, or cares to research it, but it isn't to those who don't. People who don't know about it are bombarded with media from the war on drugs and conservatives on how bad marijuana is. They really think smoking pot actually does cause harm to those around them, and it should be easy to understand why, with all of the top-down deception happening in the U.S. and other countries.
Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
Science is all about formulating a hypothesis, designing an experiment, performing it, and drawing reasonable conclusions which shape new hypotheses. We shouldn't be saying "WELL DUH," as if they shouldn't have bothered to do the study. Instead we should be happy that we have one more sample of interesting data than we had yesterday.
Also, this isn't the smoking gun that anti-prohibition activists might want. One potential conclusion is that prohibition is working, and that logically we should go ahead and outlaw alcohol and tobacco as well to prevent even more teens from becoming filthy marihuana smokers prone to reefer madness.
...it has anything to do with the bombardment of advertising there is for booze *everywhere*?
alcohol legal at 21 (most states) / marijunana not.
Look I'm as willing as anyone to stipulate that the "war on drugs" has been a total bust and a criminal waste of resources. I've told my teenage daughter "the worst thing about pot -- the absolute worst thing -- is what the government can do to you if they catch you with it".
But.
Could the results have anything to do with alcohol being much easier to acquire than pot? This is not an apples - to - apples comparison, and wouldn't have been unless we had never repealed the eighteenth amendment.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Caffeine is the true gateway drug, and I can prove it with a single word:
Chocolate.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Lack of proper parenting, poor social skills, hopelessness, and bad luck are the real gateway drugs.
The substances are the symptom in most cases.
In my own personal experience, MJ was the *last* drug I tried.
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
granddaddy's granddaddy was a proper wifebeating drunk in ireland or germany. alcohol is a familiar. therefore it's ok
meanwhile, look at these mexicans and their loco weed! scary otherness! outlaw that stuff!
seriously. this is the reason marijuana is illegal in the usa:
http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/dpf/whitebread05.html
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Also 1920s: “Makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.” —H.J. Anslinger, Bureau of Narcotics
http://www.uccs.edu/~rmelamed/Physics%20of%20Life/Homepage/Marijuana%20and%20Racism.html
Sure, those of legal age can go into all kinds of stores, bars, or restaurants and get all the booze we want. But the fact that booze is regulated and sold by licensed establishments tends to keep sales to underage buyers fairly low. Sure, teens will still approach strangers to ask them to buy for them, but even that is being cracked down on these days.
The guy selling dime bags doesn't check IDs, and could easily be a friend or schoolmate that travels in the same social circles.
The only time when I have noticed weed being particularly hard to come by is if I am in an unfamiliar area (vacation, etc.), and don't know any other smokers who have local connections. I miss the days of being able to bring a stash with you on a trip, but not since 9/11 has that been particularly easy...
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
The whole argument about "gateway" drugs is pointless. People are going to try what's available and what they're comfortable with (what their friends use) first and move on from there. There is no "gateway" as much as a natural progression.
I disagree. Parents, or relatives, or parents of friends are much MUCH more likely to have alcohol at home than pot. Although this is only a single datapoint, I remember how old I was when I had my first drink -- 12 -- and what it was -- rye whiskey (I didn't like it) -- at a friend's house. Seriously, which is more likely in a randomly selected household -- that we kids had found a bottle or a bag?
It's true that weed is fairly easy to come by, and it's also true that people selling drugs probably don't check ids. (Although I can imagine that a crack dealer might be reluctant to sell to an eleven-year-old.) But why go out looking for a dime bag when grandma has sloe gin in the cupboard? Occam's razor.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Cause it isn't grandma's first rodeo and she knows how much booze she has? (She's a grandma, not her first teen.)
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The legal thing is more commonly used than the illegal thing. Next you'll tell me that more injuries are caused due to drinking than pot, without any care for the relative number of people using and/or accessibility of the two compounds.
Great Intellect...
The only reason the hard drugs exist is because of prohibition. If you have a black market you want the product to be as potent and easily concealable/transportable as possible. Back in prohibition times most alcohol was as high of a percentage as was easy to distill. The same with coke and heroin. Chewing Coca leaves or making tea are the preferred method of consumption in the south american countries where it is grown and legal. Smoking Opium is preferred over shooting heroin. In the US Caffeine is preferred in beverages. If caffeine was made illegal you can bet there would be a black market for it as a concentrated powder or pill. The reason it's easier to OD on hard drugs is due in part to how concentrated they are and how irregular the concentration of active pharmaceutic is.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
I agree, think about it, most kids have got seriously drunk by the time there 16, most kids don't try pot till post secondary school, so I believe this out right.
People that say marijuana harms those around through smoke must never have heard of edibles or vaporizing. Don't make the whole argument about a single method, of which there are quite a few. Secondly, obligatory Bill Hicks: "We are losing the war against drugs." You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it."
And we can repeat the 20s, because that went so well for everyone. Hell, it went so well it was the first and last time we actually went and collectively agreed we made a royal fuckup and took measures to fix it.
Great Intellect...
I couldn't gt [ast this sentences:
" When Professor Bonnie and I set out to try to track the legal history of marijuana in this country, we were shocked that nobody had ever done that work before."
That's complete bullshit. As such, I can't trust the rest.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Cause it isn't grandma's first rodeo and she knows how much booze she has? (She's a grandma, not her first teen.)
You're right. Furthermore, Grandma probably also knows about the trick of watering down the remainder. (Don't ask me how I know.) So you would need to make your samples small across multiple bottles (and mix it together, which I think was called "bilge water" when we drank it as teens -- nasty) or save up samples from Grandma's only bottle over a period of time, and then have a party. It helps if Grandma is gettin' a mite forgetful.
If you live in a state where alcohol is sold right off the store shelves, there's always shoplifting.
Or you could try any of the above, and get caught, which some of us did.
But the fact that a lot of adults are nodding their heads while reading this, or can think up many other methods, (or remembering friends they lost to alcohol in their teens) means that acquiring alcohol whilst under age was not exactly unknown. Yeesh, google "underage drinking" and you get over four million hits. Acquiring alcohol was *easy*.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Then the problem is the parents, not the alcohol.
I'd say the same thing with cigarettes, or a far shot... marijuana.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Food is obviously the gateway. I mean, who hasn't eaten before (and sometimes right after) doing drugs?
It's so obvious!
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
"Give one of these Mexican beet field workers a couple of puffs on a marijuana cigarette and he thinks he is in the bullring at Barcelona."
Heh .. the average stoner who found himself in the bullring in Barcelona would go fetal and cry. It is not a "proactive" experience.
You may have a point there. I'm the only person in my family who has never smoked. My wife doesn't smoke, and my teenage daughter has so far -- without any coaching from us (we didn't feel it was necessary) -- resisted peer pressure to take up smoking. My sister, who has smoked non-stop since she was 13, now as an adult has a 13 year old foster kid who -- surprise -- just took up smoking.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
This post is absolutely classic for anyone interested in cognitive dissonance and methods by which its effects are mitigated by those who experience it.
You must be a big hit at parties.
That seems a bid disingenuous: I wouldn't want an impaired doctor operating on me, whether it was because he had drunk a half liter of scotch, smoked pot, or were high on amphetamines. That would be negligent practice, and it's already something that they can get sued for.
With the marijuana came tobacco, to which I'm addicted.
People who ruin perfectly good weed with tobacco should be shot.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
oldschool Dr. Demento points for you, good sir.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Pardon the language but:
who the fuck would let ANY non sober person operate on you?
These things are how I learned to get high
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGQ3y91llcM
The issue is why people feel compelled to self-medicate. A beer or glass of wine or a dram of whiskey can be food and/or something to be enjoyed. Or it can be abused as a drug. Anything in excess, whether it be food, alcohol, weed, shopping, sex, exercise, etc, especially if it's being used to check out of the reality of one's life, is dangerous. Granted, pounding a bottle of Jack and running 10K may have opposite effects on the body, but if you're checking out, then you aren't dealing with the organic neurological and/or dysfunctional emotional issues.
Whether weed is more benign than alcohol hardly matters if your inclination is to wake and bake, slack at work, let the kids cook dinner for themselves while you sleep off a bong-hit or any of the myriad other chronic stoner check-outs.
I say treat emotional/mental illnesses as we would high blood pressure or any other disease. I bet if the stigma for treating behavioral health issues were removed, we'd see less in the way of substance abuse, and lifestyle diseases such as Type II Diabetes and obesity would start dropping in reported cases, because then we'd finally admit that the brain is the most important organ in the body, and its health governs much of the overall health of the body. We'd also notice a drop in child abuse, spousal abuse, personality disorders, and see a lot higher quality of life.
I KNEW IT ... I always wondered why every time I got high, I would end up in the kitchen searching for snacks, instead of seeking out the local heroin dealer.
Keywords for the NSA overthrow oppressive regime true believers marathon Manhatten the financial district blueprints I
It could be legal in the state in which they're consuming it. Many states have "medical marijuana" laws (though, how it could possibly get prescribed for anything by a real doctor, I'm unable to ponder), and actual enforcement* notwithstanding, the federal government doesn't have the authority to regulate intra-state commerce.
*they seem to have the practical power to declare and enforce their declarations despite the limitations of the actual powers delineated in the charter document.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
The irony is that, if there is in fact much of connection at all between marijuana use and use of any hard drugs, it's surely a direct result of the fact that they're both illegal, and therefore tend to be associated with the same group of people...the dealers for example. Using that as an argument for prohibition is the most astonishingly insane circular logic I can imagine. Then again, it comes from people who have no facts or history on their side, so what more would you expect?
It can even produce new users.
Legalizing doesn't make the psychosis go away. In the Netherlands it's legal and there are plenty of fucked up people smoking themselves into an even more fucked up state, instead of dealing with their crap and getting on with their life without smoking.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Of course marijuana, now apparently alcohol, is the first drug many kids gets their hands on. It's the easiest to get! But then some kids start doing drugs with benzos and opioids because their live-in grandma takes them. I could say a neighbor kid I grew up with used canned whip cream as a gateway drug because he moved on to heroin.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Weeks, yes, months, no.
A study at Harvard found no significant effects on memory, etc. after quitting for 28 days.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/10.11/marijuana.html
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Alcohol is a gateway drug. It lowers perception and operational intelligence so that the addict can't fully appreciate the consequences of their actions, which includes taking more dangerous drugs.
It's all part of deadly spiral of most addicts. There are all kinds of self-destructive acts that are included on the way. This is one of them.
Really, who here would want a doctor operating on them just drank some alcohol? Gee, I don't see any hands.
The Alcohol Lobby has been trying to delude the science and facts about alcohol for years now. Don't be fooled. Alcohol is extremely habit forming and has dubious medical value.
The real solution is not criminal punishment, but mandatory drug treatment and counseling.
Fixed that for 'ya.
but who's to say that's not a positive effect?
alcohol rips up your short term memory too and people get freaked up on alcohol way more often than from weed, even those with access to both.
anyways - alcohol is on a fucking totally different level than mary-jay. ever heard of anyone spending a week in the hospital from physical effects from weed? yeah, thought so. yet your local hospitals intensive care is filled (if you live in the west) 30% with people there due to drinking(pancreatitis, ulcer etc etc..). it's fucking expensive for society too.
yeah, had bad luck with genes and I liked drinking, so had acute pancreatitis way before hitting 30 - a week in hospital on opiats eating nothing. instead of getting given a packs of tramadol when getting sent home from there I should have been given a pound of some good buds. you know why? eating was enormously difficult and tramadol doesn't really help with that.
what's sick in current western society too is that people who drink and go to doctor complaining anxiety and depression get hooked up with pills that really should not be mixed with alcohol. end result is fucking wrecks who fuck up other peoples life too.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
After losing the "high" you will have less concentration and less short term memory capability for days, weeks and even months to follow, depending on how long and how much you smoked before.
From my own (extensive) personal experience? Wrong.
How are you measuring "less concentration" and "less short term memory capability"? Through some bullshit test somebody made up? In my personal experience, my memory and concentration is just fine. If there is any loss it is not high enough to matter. I'm a heavy every-day-all-day smoker.
When one is high on marijuana, it alters the flow of information through the brain. With a casual/inexperienced smoker, they simply don't/haven't smoked enough for their brain to adjust and learn to process information most effectively when high. This explains their apparent deficits in certain mental abilities. Take one of Plato's cave dwellers and put him in the middle of a ballroom and see how confused and screwed up he acts at first. Come back a year later and he might own the place. Your static "social abilities test" taken two days before and after the change of venue proves nothing.
Even though there might be a slight drop in what some might perceive as "short term memory" (more like: verbal memory), there are also huge gains in other areas, i.e. creativity. The overall effect is a gain in intelligence and mental ability, not the opposite.
Stuff it where the sun don't shine. Seriously.
Looky-looky men are your best bet in Europe.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Legalizing doesn't make the psychosis go away. In the Netherlands it's legal and there are plenty of fucked up people smoking themselves into an even more fucked up state, instead of dealing with their crap and getting on with their life without smoking.
Name one.
Sounds more like your prejudice and ignorance talking here, not experience.
I got drunk at first.
I then took Acid and MDA (XTC's daddy)
I tried some weed, but didn't like it.
Spent most of the next year, Drunk or high on acid or MDA
finally, started smoking marijuana regularly.
Still drank, still did Acid & MDA, and some other stuff.
Discovered Heroin.
Wasted the next 15 years.
Quit the heroin.
Just smoke weed now.
In hindsight, I should of just stayed with the weed and maybe my life would be different, but since that doesn't matter shit, I have this to say:
No fucking drug was a gateway drug for me. I choose to do "harder" drugs because I wanted to. I made the choice, I wasn't forced to the choice by any drugs I took before, since they can NOT force me to do anything.
Gateway drugs is just an excuse for our failings as humans to keep others safe from the dangers of themselves. We only care about what a druggy/alcoholic is doing with it affects us, otherwise, we don't give a damn.
Guess what, people are going to drink, people are going to do drugs. Why? because they generally want to, or they are stupid and let peer pressure them into doing it, but it comes down to their choice. Nothing you could of done would probably change that. People make choices all the time, good or bad. But they make them.
Be seeing you...
"had bad luck with genes"
I never get a hangover (one reason is that I never drink crap in quantity, I'll happily pay twice as much for something high quality, and happily just leave undrinkable shit). Everyone says I have good luck with my genes. I openly describe it has having "the alcoholics' gene".
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Sorry dude - I grew up with burnouts. You have do a lot of weed for a long time, but they SURELY weren't any smarter in any way that was obvious to an external observer. They did seem pretty happy though - just sitting on the couch was a great day for them.
Weeks, yes, months, no.
And, of course, as no one ever smokes weed more than once a month, there is no problem whatsoever.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
At least most drinkers can be bothered to put Capital Letters at the beginning of their sentences.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Even though there might be a slight drop in what some might perceive as "short term memory" (more like: verbal memory), there are also huge gains in other areas, i.e. creativity. The overall effect is a gain in intelligence and mental ability, not the opposite.
That is exactly what alcoholics say, you know.
I'm all in favour of heavy drinking and drug use, but to pretend they give you enhanced insight, creativity or whatever is really just a load of bollocks.
Get someone to record your drunk or drug-fuelled ideas and then play them back to you when you're sober. If you're Ernest Hemingway or Jimi Hendrix, you might possibly have some gold amongst the dross, but that's only because you're an artist to start with. Most people will just have dross, which is fine as long as they're not kidding themselves it's anything else.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Legalizing doesn't make the psychosis go away. In the Netherlands it's legal and there are plenty of fucked up people smoking themselves into an even more fucked up state, instead of dealing with their crap and getting on with their life without smoking.
Name one.
Sounds more like your prejudice and ignorance talking here, not experience.
You've obviously never been to the Netherlands. They're everywhere, and you don't want to know their names.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
yeah well no sh*t
Sorry dude - I grew up with burnouts. You have do a lot of weed for a long time, but they SURELY weren't any smarter in any way that was obvious to an external observer. They did seem pretty happy though - just sitting on the couch was a great day for them.
In my experience this is a psychological reaction to the sense of well being that marijuana gives. I have also known a lot of long time cannabis users who display this behaviour, and have even experienced it personally. The drug gives you a feeling that all is well and dampens the desire for having more possessions, status, power, etc. This is nothing to do with intelligence or memory, only with motivation. It may seem on the face of things to be a negative or detrimental effect, especially in a society where the profit motive and greed are used as the primary drivers of progress. But it is precisely for this reason that I believe it can also be a good thing. I think our society is sick and obsessed with having and getting. Either way, this is far too philosophical to justify prohibition, if you start talking about human nature and the structure of society you are beyond the point where banning a single substance makes any sense.
I didn't say anything about prohibition. IMHO pot takes longer than most other substances to cause problems.
Weed had been observed to increase brain cell growth, not inhibit it. While I won't say that it means this or that, that is at least something worth concidering. After all, food alters your mood and perception, and I don't think you wish to argue that it has no virtue in helping someone in their creativity. No one knows for sure, but to dismiss it completely is probably premature.
I find that I'm not able to code well when in an altered state of mind. I usually have much better ideas at a conceptual level, but have to return closer to "normal space" before I can actually start implementing them. I've been known to keep a journal of ideas to assist with this transition because once the alteration is gone, usually anyway, it's harder to follow the train of thought that lead to the idea in the first place. It's like a map to intellectual treasure! :)
putting capitals is like whoring for modpoints, next thing you'd want me to write proper english sentences with correct grammar and punctuation, next stage is using a fucking mindmap to lay out the paragraphs to get a proper flow for the comment - why bother when mod limit is at +5 anyways? you complain but still you read what I wrote, douche.
fuck that, i can't be bothered with that, especially now that i can't drink anymore.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Bad luck with genes is that I have close family who got it at even younger age, usually this is reserved for 40+ total alcies - contributing factor may have been that to get properly drunk the menu included 0.5 liters of vodka as pre-bar starters(it's not that uncommon in Finland, saves money if you get drunk first and then drink just 4-5 while at the bar).
never could stand the taste of beer though.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Getting high is for cowards who can not face life full on.
Says the coward.
I kinda understand what you're getting at, but am somewhat unfamiliar with the terminology you used, and an explanation would be helpful. Thank you.
Like one huge, ugly, cancerous, pulsating mass. Incredible. It should be sent to a lab, dissected, analyzed, and studied, for rational people to determine just how it's possible for a person to be so deluded. Afterwards, nuke it from orbit.
Sorry dude - I grew up with burnouts. You have do a lot of weed for a long time, but they SURELY weren't any smarter in any way that was obvious to an external observer. They did seem pretty happy though - just sitting on the couch was a great day for them.
Sorry dude, that's just your bad luck. Many people are able to function as well or better with as regular a regimen of marijuana use as heavy tobacco smokers - it's a matter of adaptation and suitability for a particular person. It's also very good for your health in many ways, especially if you stick to vaporizing. Read the medical studies, and notice how many very rich people support marijuana legalization and openly admit doing it on a regular basis. It's not all that predestined as you make it seem.
Nothing ever said that anyone -was- "forced" to do any other drugs by what they chose to do before; the point of a gateway drug is just in the perfectly reasonable hypothesis that if someone takes a psychoactive substance and enjoys it, they might then decide to try a different, "harder" substance next. Just like you did.
My perspective on it is, if we treat all drugs as equally bad, a person is far more likely to end up in a situation like you did. I feel personally that a person should be free to make idiotic choices like getting hooked on crack if they want to, without the government telling them they can't, but that the government -should- make sure they know before doing it that they're making one. On the other hand, when it comes to drugs that are far easier to use safely and in moderation, like pot, they should have warnings, but far less scary ones, so people don't just lump them all together.
Cognitive dissonance is a catch-all term used to describe mental discomfort as a result of believing two mutually exclusive things (whether you understand them to be contradictory or are aware only subconsciously).
The post I replied to was an attempt to create some sort of consistency between the understanding that alcohol is highly destructive, but that prohibition created even greater evils and the belief that prohibition of something which is less destructive but suffers the same evils-creation as alcohol prohibition is justified. The justification is not actually spelled out, so they have a ways to go in order to integrate the two beliefs.
They may successfully create a better integration, thus allowing for more comfortable belief in these opposing beliefs. Or, they may go down any number of other paths to create something more logically consistent. As they posted AC, we'll probably never know, but it's an interesting data point nonetheless.
Finland definitely has alcohol problems generally. You have a similar binge drinking culture to the UK. Except with the Finns, you mostly drink to pass out, the Brits do it to get out of control. You're only average in Europe when measuring EtOH L/year, but you generally save it all up for the weekend - just make sure you pick up a bottle of pöytäviina on the way home from work on friday. As soon as the cap's off - you can throw it across the room - you won't be needing it any more. (Occasionally I'd "need" to go to Alko on a friday afternoon, and I saw a lot of this behaviour.)
... ;-)
In general, apart from the health issues (and maybe lack of productivity if it was pikkuperjantai and a working day the next day), I didn't see too much of a problem with the Finns getting drunk. They'd pass out, that's all (at least until the 90s, the 00s were a little more 'european'). Until their 'diddle-do-dup diddle-do-dup diddle-do-dup dupppp' (i.e. Nokia phone) went off, that is - that sound could probably wake Finns from comas.
If you don't like beer, you've probably never had the right type - Lapin Kusta is not a good example of the drink. Give me sahti any day
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
Seems like /. has contaminated my poytaviina!
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
So pot is the one drug in the entire world that the more you do the better? It does sound like something my stoner friends would say LOL. Back in reality, some of them chilled out - reduced their intake - and got real lives and some still live like 16 year-olds at the age that their parents should be worried about their grandkids and not them. *free country - IMHO grow what you want and smoke it all in the middle of your front yard with a neon sign saying POT HERE and that should totally legal.
Legalizing doesn't make the psychosis go away. In the Netherlands it's legal and there are plenty of fucked up people smoking themselves into an even more fucked up state, instead of dealing with their crap and getting on with their life without smoking.
Name one.
Sounds more like your prejudice and ignorance talking here, not experience.
Being in education, I've seen several students spiraling down. I used to think it was mostly harmless, but I've seen the festering side. Some pretty normal young people changing to dope-heads over the course of a few years.
But it's just my ignorance and prejudice talking probably, nothing to see here, move along.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Acquiring alcohol was easy, almost as easy as pot.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.