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Details of Chinese Moon Rocket Emerge
MarkWhittington writes "AmericaSpace has published the results of a study of Chinese rocket development by Charles Vick, a noted expert on the Russian and Chinese space programs who works for GlobalSecurity.org, using Chinese language sources. Of note are the developing concepts for a super heavy launch vehicle designated as the CZ9 or Long March 9, capable of taking Chinese astronauts to the moon and points beyond. 'Liang outlined several new Long March versions, virtually all of them testing elements that would eventually find their way into the Long March 9 that has 4 million lb. more of liftoff thrust than the 7.5 million lb. thrust NASA Saturn V. Forty-three years ago this week a Saturn V propelled the Apollo 11 astronauts to the first manned landing on the Moon on July 20, 1969.'"
3...2...1... The species must go into space and colonize the Galaxy! With rockets.
Submitter forgot "allegedly" in "Forty-three years ago this week a Saturn V propelled the Apollo 11 astronauts to the first manned landing on the Moon on July 20, 1969.'
AmericaSpace
That's not the WORST name for an organization I've ever heard. But really? You're THAT unimaginative?
Everything is better with chainsaws.
It is time to build the Sea Dragon rocket with 80 million pounds of thrust. And no new launch facilities would be needed since you can only launch it from the ocean.
Let them go to 'and places beyond' in their fancy shmancy 12 million lb. thrust rocket. It's far more cost effective and easy, to send probes and rovers to other places in this solar system. The real question is, 'Who will be first to manipulate the higgs field in such a way that will allow for light speed or near light speed travel'?
Secret Photos, only available through a special Chinese search engine:
http://www.about-sichuan-china.com/images/Chinese-fireworks.jpg
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
An empire prospers when it keeps the trade routes open. It falters when it turns to lording over its own people, and a new core of empire forms on its outskirts, little fettered from it.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
It's basic physics... make a heavy enough rocket and when you release the holding pin it will fall downwards, accelerating until it breaks free of the Earth's atmosphere. Then just turn it around and head to the moon.
I remember Wernher von Braun in an interview stating that the Saturn V could be used to send spacecraft to any point in the solar system. It seems that later launch vehicles developed more thrust though (Titan/Centaur) but perhaps not. So are the Chinese explicitly planing on putting colonies on the moon and Mars (or mining asteroids)?
I remember Wernher von Braun in a interview in the 70's saying that the Saturn V could be used to launch spacecraft to any point in the solar system. So are the Chinese explicitly intending to put bases on the moon and Mars or mine asteroids?
Obviously, a US news source is going to use the largest NASA rocket ever flown as the basis for comparison, but I think their option 'A' design looks quite like the Soviet Energiya booster.
Saturn V was a single body launch vehicle - each stage was stacked on top of each other, and fired sequentially. This was simpler to assemble, but meant that two stages had to start in flight - one of which had to start twice! The first stage was LOx/RP-1 to get high thrust low in the Earth's atmosphere, and the upper stages were LOx/LH2 to get maximum delta-V.
Energiya, on the other hand, looked more like the US shuttle stack (and indeed, was used to fly the Soviet version of the space shuttle, the main difference being its ability to fly without the shuttle as its own rocket). It had a LOx/LH2 core stage, surrounded by 4 LOx/RP-1 boosters. All of the engines were started on the ground, at liftoff. Energiya was a mode 'modern' super heavy launch vehicle, as this approach is widely considered better these days.
Sensibly, the Chinese appear to have looked to the most recent super heavy (100t+ payload capacity) launch vehicle that successfully flew for design cues.
I doubt human lift is the goal. This is a way to get more robots up. Once I had seen a video of telepresence underground heavy mining equipment i had an idea how its going to play out. Semi-autonomous robotic industry.
Given the thermal gradients, I wouldn't be surprised by a closed cycle heat engine driving them.. i'm sure it works out better than solar panels.
Will it actually happen? Im not so sure.
...eh, I feel way to pessimistic today, I need a root beer.
I have the suspicion if they did build the long 9, and this is a big "if", its going to suffer the same fate as the n1 to be used a few times and abandoned or worse turn out like buran sitting in a junk heap http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/09/28/1246200/soviet-shuttle-buran-found-in-a-junk-heap...heh, one of comander tacos. Hope your chilling dude.
because their "rockets" are half as long
The submission and at least one of the linked articles are just silly "OMG CHINA" rabble-rousing in an attempt to justify the diversion of NASA resources from commercial providers like SpaceX towards giant white elephants like the SLS heavy-lift rocket (and the legacy contractors behind it). I've yet to see any evidence that China's supposed plans for a heavy-lift rocket are anything more than sketches from dreamy engineers, without any actual funding behind them; if anything other non-existent heavy-lift rockets like SpaceX's Falcon XX have more progress behind them.
If anything, indications so far suggest that China's space exploration plans involve the more sensible approach of assembling exploration modules in space, instead of building rarely-used mega-rockets that launch everything up at once.
Would they even be willing to sell it?
Wasn't this the point of offshoring technology?
You know those inscrutable aliens in sci-fi films that have indecipherable glyphs on the sides of their spaceships: They're Chinese.
Actually, someone found a stone tablet, somewhere near Siberia. They carbon dated it, and it supposed to be like more than 5 millions year old
On that stone tablet were carvings that looks very much like some ancient Chinese characters
I had the link once, but unfortunately I lost it (hard disk crashed).
I tried to search for it, to no avail.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Maybe someone should start writing a new stuxnet variant targetting China's space program?
Yes, we will hear all the neo-cons and RWNJ on this site screaming about O killing off Constellation as well as the SLS. Yet, it is absolutely WORTHLESS.
.5B to launch. 2 companies would then win the bid to produce these. Before completion, another contest would take place to have 5 launches total from 2 companies. This allows the non-winners to do their own launch system if they believe that they have a winner (think ATK with Liberty). The companies would submit the price for 2 launches/year for 4 years. 2 companies would win. Whoever has the lowest bid, would get a 3rd launch/year. This rewards companies that push the bid low. And with 5 launches a year, it would be possible to put a lunar base, as well a mars base up their cheaply.
Instead, we should kill off the SLS TODAY and focus on getting private launchers going for human launches, as WELL as the multiple companies doing inflatable space stations.
THEN create a COTS program for TWO SHLV. It should carry around 150 tonnes to LEO, cost under 5B to produce in under 4 years, and under
Make no mistake. China IS in a cold war with the west, and they are WINNING.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I'll bet that the Chinese will set foot on the Moon and claim it for themselves, regardless of any long-standing International agreements to the contrary.
..and yes, I know this post will get modded down to "-1, Troll" and I'll get flamed for posting this. Haters gonna hate; I'm expressing my opinion, and I don't care who likes or dislikes it. I don't trust the Chinese government; I have been given no reason to.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
What this country need is a visionary genius who can lose billions of dollars failing to hype electric cars and still claim to beat the Chinese on launch costs.
Charlatans like that is what make America great.
They can have it. What could they possibly do there that would make it worth the trip?
Establish a military presence that controls near earth space and possibly threatens targets on the earth's surface via large kinetic weapons (all the bang of nukes without the radiation).
Welcome to space race 2.0. This time around USA will be the one losing economically.
Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
..via large kinetic weapons
..and the AC has it. Did everyone else forget about The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress already?
I predict the next "space race" will be to establish a permanent presence on the Moon, and the Chinese will be playing the role the Russians played back in the 1950's and 1960's.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Let's assume the Chinese build a mass driver (assuming you could actually build one) on the moon and threatened to drop heavy rocks on us. The proper response would be "If you do that, we're going to turn your country into a vast expanse of radioactive glass." Trillions of yuan wasted because they forgot we had nukes. Stupid Chinese!
China may be going to the moon but the US will have Idiocracy.
I predict the next "space race" will be to establish a permanent presence on the Moon, and the Chinese will be playing the role the Russians played back in the 1950's and 1960's.
What makes you so sure they won't be playing the role of the Americans ?
Their progress is seen as 'slow' and 'copying' by most Americans, but their 5 year and 10 year and 20 year plans are being steadily executed.
Their Shenzhou spacecraft has done spaceflights that resemble American Mercury and Gemini, but it actually has all capabilities of Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and Soyuz combined (and improved).
European Linux user, living in Antwerp
Really. Just give the Chinese all of our Apollo info (everything we still have) and let them measure the extant rockets with a micrometer. Let them rebuild from our tech and throw in all the improvements the last thirty eight years have wrought and applaud them as they travel to the moon. There is no strategic value in the junk - the Chinese can nuke us quite handily, thank you - and we would save them trillions in development costs.
Plus, we get to watch their public become disenchanted with how great Chinese science is, just like the Americans became disenchanted with their own science. China can join the US on the metaphorical couch watching reality TV and eating fried squid chips. Win-win!
More importantly, they are focused on the economy, the way that USA was. Sadly, they cheat at everything, which we did not, however, they are still winning.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Then it would be mutually assured destruction. Their response would be to pound North America into dust -- non-radioactive dust, I might add, which could be re-colonized by the survivors immediately.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
No it wouldn't. They wouldn't have any reason to sacrifice their country like that.
I've built quadcopters and other r/c devices. I'm even guilty of purchasing parts at hobbyking. granted some the the parts are great, but you always need to order extra because the QA over in China isn't very good. I love the thrust I get out of the NTN 26-28a motor, but man.. If you need 4 motors you need to order 6 because 50% of the motors have bearings that fail. If it wasn't for the bearings the motors would be one of the best. I'm going to replace the bearings once I get the proper tools. Also tolerance.. hmm... you can always count on one part being wrong or a hole not lining up and have to machine the part yourself. Now imagine QA like that on a Lunar Lander project. Those poor Asians on that Lunar Lander. I say they have a 50% chance of survival. Not because they are not smart.. they are very smart. But they have QA issues.
So you're inside the heads of the Chinese military leadership? You know exactly what they'd do in that situation? I think not.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
They already have nukes. If that's what they're thinking it doesn't matter what happens on the moon.
Apparently you have no imagination, which here in the U.S. anymore doesn't surprise me one bit, all the imagination, critical thinking skills, and initiative have been bred out of or trained out of just about everyone.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
If by that you mean I'm an engineer who can actually analyze a concept without going all starry-eyed, well, that's true. Clearly you spent too much time reading science fiction and not enough studying actual science. It's fine to use your imagination, but at some point you need to leaven it with some connection with reality.
Yeah, like I said: You have NO imagination, none whatsoever, and furthermore you sound like an absolute prick, likely tedious as hell to have to deal with personally, as rude as any kid from 4chan online, and you can go fuck yourself.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Says the guy who wrote this:
Maybe if you don't want people to treat you like an asshole you shouldn't act like one.