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Additive Manufacturing (3D Printing), Gun Control, and Patent Law

retroworks writes "J.D. Tuccille of the conservative think tank Reason Foundation discusses last week's news about the first working 3D-printed gun. According to the original article, the partly plastic '.22-caliber pistol, formed from a 3D-printed AR-15 (M16) lower receiver, and a normal, commercial upper' fired 200 rounds without any sign of wear and tear. Tuccille takes the discovery in the direction of politically topical gun control. '...the development makes it clear that a wide range of bans, restrictions and prohibitions are becoming increasingly unenforcable.' But in my mind, this example of additive-manufacturing technology raises even more questions about patent law enforcement. Will 3D printing be to the Anti-gray-market-alliance what online porn became to neighborhood blue laws?"

65 of 380 comments (clear)

  1. Already happening by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This fight is already happening. What do ya think the whole war over software patents boils down to? Is it a patentable machine or a copyrightable expression in code? Well soon it will be everything is downloadable and where is the line? That is the heart of this argument in a nutshell.

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    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Already happening by Smidge204 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Copyright the plans, patent the actual device.

      Patents are supposed to cover a particular arrangement of components that perform a specific task. Even a parametric design would still have the same fundamental arrangement of major components and perform the same task. You can patent that.

      Then you can copyright the script that generates the device with the given parameters.
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:Already happening by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is, how do you enforce the patent when people are printing the devices in their basement. You can't go after someone for releasing plans they drew up themselves, as long as they aren't a copy of your originals, and even if they were, the plans are just downloadable files, and we know how well that's working out for the movie and music industries. You can't go after the people producing the items, because there are just in their basements, and you have no way of tracking who is printing off the devices for personal use. I'm not saying it's all bad, but it definitely makes things interesting for companies that produce things that can be printed out on a 3D printer at home.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Already happening by oakgrove · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not saying it's all bad, but it definitely makes things interesting for companies that produce things that can be printed out on a 3D printer at home.

      Even with 3D printers, large factories will still be able to produce just about anything for a fraction of what you can do it for in your house. As it is right now, the real cost for the companies will be in distribution and R&D. Outsource the R&D to China or India (or evolutionary algorithms based on some of the stuff I see in stores) and streamline your distribution with just in time principles, etc. and I don't think they'll have a whole lot to worry about. Maybe profit margins will be a little thinner but they aren't in any real danger yet. Jobs will be lost in the short term but that always happens when production is streamlined.

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      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    4. Re:Already happening by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can't prevent someone from building a patented device themselves NOW. Never could. What you CAN do - if you catch them - is take them to court over selling them.

      The digital design/model files are on the same shelf as digital music and movie files. They are not patented but copyrighted - and we have lots of (heavy-handed, often draconian) tools for dealing distribution of copyrighted materials. And just like with digital music and movies, there is nothing you can do to really prevent trading them either.

      In short: 3D printing just lowers the bar for what has always been possible. Content producers will have to either adapt to a new market environment or double down on the draconian idiocy. No point for guessing which path they choose.
      =Smidge=

    5. Re:Already happening by oakgrove · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll bet manufacturers are shitting their pants over home printed things... but then, you can only print plastics at this point. When you can download and print a whole car, hell yes I'll pirate a car!

      They're shitting their pants in the same way the MPAA shat their pants over the VCR and the RIAA shat their pants over the cassette recorder. As in a lot of foot stomping and posturing then going on to continue making tons of money. Even if you can print a car or a computer or a friggin nuclear reactor, believe that all of that can be made on an assembly line and shipped to your door for much less than it will cost you and still have a nice profit margin for the manufacturer. To me printing cars is boring. I'm looking forward to the level of creativity unleashed unlike anything seen in the material realm ever before. We've seen this in the realm of software, literature, music, and video since the production tools became commodotized. No, you can't shit out 10,000,000 CDs a week like Warner Brothers can but you can put your stuff on Youtube and entertain 3,432,454 people in a week. That doesn't stop the industry from making money but it does enrich a few peoples' lives just a little bit. That's analogous to how I expect the 3D printer revolution to play out at least in the mid-term.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    6. Re:Already happening by WhiplashII · · Score: 2

      Actually, that is incorrect. You can certainly sue someone that creates an item for their own personal use that infringes your patent. It is just unlikely to work, so most people don't. But suing for the value of a "lost sale" is well established - and since patents allow 10 times damages in the case of willful infringement, it may even be economical.

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    7. Re:Already happening by ewibble · · Score: 2

      I agree, I would just like to add if a factory can't produce it cheaper than a 3D printer then it deserves to die, since isn't that the whole point of a free market that it drives more efficient mechanisms of production?

    8. Re:Already happening by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They may pass laws forbidding the possession of 3D printers that aren't licensed, like unregistered handguns and fully-automatic firearms. Possessing/using an unlicensed/unauthorized 3D printer would result in a lengthy prison term and huge fines.

      They can use the logic of "since an unlicensed 3D printer *could* possibly print a gun, the penalties for possession/use of an unlicensed 3D printer should match those of someone possessing/using an unregistered/illegal fully-automatic weapon during the commission of a crime" to justify making the punishments comparable.

      The licensed and legal printers, in turn, would be secured through "Trusted Computing" type systems so that they must connect online to some central authority that will check the file(s) you're trying to print against a white-list database of legal/permitted designs that may be printed. If it's not on the list, you can't print it, and for for permitted-but-paywalled items, automatically deduct the charge from a bank account or CC.

      This way they can monetize it and control what and how much can be printed and know who has printed what and when, while simultaneously increasing the amount of money going to criminal defense lawyers and the government and filling even more prisons with another whole class of non-violent criminal.

      Sometimes it sucks to have a good imagination and understanding of government/political/human nature.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    9. Re:Already happening by oakgrove · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you're making millions and millions of widgets that are simple enough to be printed on a Maker Bot, your R&D cost per unit is infinitesimal. Listen, I love the idea of making things at home but it isn't going to replace mass production even a little bit. What it will do is allow people to unleash their creativity. That's the real point so many other people are missing.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    10. Re:Already happening by Smidge204 · · Score: 2

      There is nothing a 3D printer can do that you couldn't do with basic hand tools and patience. In fact basic hand tools can do quite a bit more than 3D printers.

      Just like they haven't banned hand tools, personal computers, photocopiers and personal printers, still and video cameras, VCRs and CD/DVD burners because they had the potential for facilitating copyright infringement - they won't ban 3D printers either. Everything you said applies to all those technologies - and the same arguments were about them in the past - but nothing has come of it.
      =Smidge=

    11. Re:Already happening by nospam007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "They may pass laws forbidding the possession of 3D printers that aren't licensed, like unregistered handguns and fully-automatic firearms. Possessing/using an unlicensed/unauthorized 3D printer would result in a lengthy prison term and huge fines."

      The rich have done this with millstones for centuries. Peasants had to bring the corn to the Lord's mill and he sent his brute squad to find and destroy any 'illegal' millstones.

    12. Re:Already happening by mhajicek · · Score: 2

      Would you rather print it and have it over night for $10, go out and buy it for $5 + $1-5 of gas + time and effort, or order it online for $3 + $2 shipping + waiting a week? Add in the factor of easy customization and occasional limited availability of factory goods and printing has a fair market share.

    13. Re:Already happening by sixtyeight · · Score: 2

      I was going to reply to tell you you're correct, and to ask you to stop freely giving out the results of your intelligence to the government in the form of a viable plan of action.

      Then I noticed the flaw. When people print guns freely, and when they're upset enough at the government, the popular, strong refusal to that sort of legislation becomes an insurmountable obstacle to disarming the citizenry.

      We'll encounter state militias mainstreaming again long before we'll encounter any significant threat to disarm us. The U.N. small arms treaty which attempted to bring the gun rights of the citizenry within any member nation under the authority of the United Nations just collapse, because the United States delegates stated that problems domestically would prevent them from being able to meet the deadline. In other words, the People adamantly refused to tolerate it. The best the U.S. delegates could do was shake their fists in the air and yell, "We'll be ba-a-ack! Just you wait!" in traditional bureaucra-speak.

      And that's how that works.

      --
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    14. Re:Already happening by Americano · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, or think of the commercial print industry: Everybody can buy a cheap consumer inkjet/laser printer that will print at a decent quality - you could buy and print out PDFs if you wanted to do all of it at home. But you wouldn't necessarily have access to a commercial-grade printing and binding facility that would allow you to crank out a couple thousand professionally bound copies of War and Peace in a few hours.

      I don't think printers are a foregone conclusion in the home, but I think you'll see "consumer-grade" printers available for a reasonable price for those who want them - just like you can buy a table saw for your home workshop, or a nailgun today. The DIY-ers will have one, the people who can't be bothered with fixing and building things themselves will rely on commercial services.

  2. The UK has some lead time on this by EdgePenguin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As guns are far more strictly controlled over here, and as such you can't obtain the parts that you can't home make, this doesn't really apply to the UK or other countries that don't have everybody armed to the teeth.

    ...but its only a matter of time really. I actually like gun control laws, but I can't see any way they can be enforced, long term, in light of this kind of technology - without banning the technology outright, which would be like banning home computers in the 1970s. Obviously, the people who have a stake in selling people stuff they may be able to manufacture themselves in the near future are going to love this. Moral panics are always useful for promoting a ruthless, rent seeking economic agenda, as the debate over digital rights has shown.

    1. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't get the article. People have been making guns for a while. Making them on forges you could build in your garage. Anyone with a half assed machine shop could build almost anything.

      Then you get guys like this guy that build stuff like the Puzzle Gun.

    2. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by EdgePenguin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Doing it with a machine shop requires time, skill, and more importantly a machine shop. The future that could threaten the effectiveness of gun control is one where desktop devices could produce enough parts of a gun that whatever is left over can be obtained legally in your jurisdiction - and the only entry requirement will be the desktop device itself and an internet connection.

    3. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by PortHaven · · Score: 2

      It is only a matter of time before someone offers a printable design which requires nothing more than a pre-fab pipe and a few springs from Home Depot...and everything else is printed.

      In fact, a fully automatic firearm is easier to manufacture than a semi-automatic, ironically.

    4. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by jxander · · Score: 2

      Agreed. The "Gun" angle is just to attract attention. People have built guns out of stranger items. There was an article a while back about someone building an AR-15 lower (the 3D-printed part, in the article) out of plastic cutting boards from Target or Walmart. Just whittled them down and taped em together.

      If anything, the biggest issue going forward will be "ideas." Companies like Games Workshop, who sell cheap plastic figurines for ridiculous profits, or car dealers who sell little plastic tabs at absurd markup. Once I can scan and print them myself, well ...

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    5. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Improvised firearms have been made by pure amateurs for years. The fact of the matter is that most people don't want a gun bad enough to take the risks involved in making their own. However, the whole problem with gun control laws is that people who want a gun for criminal purposes aren't really bothered by those risks (they want the gun to reduce the risk of an already high risk activity).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by vlm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Doing it with a machine shop requires time, skill, and more importantly a machine shop.

      As a guy with a machine shop, rest assured it doesn't require much of the above.

      If you want minimum weight, maximum reliability, all kinds of nifty features including safeties and such, OR if you want to make a precise exact working replica of a historical piece accurate to the tiniest detail, then it takes huge time, skill, and tools.

      But if you're just trying to make what amounts to a short range inaccurate "zip gun" or little more than a shotgun, its trivial, you don't need a "shop". An imaginative plumber can figure something out without a "shop" or gunsmithing skills.

      The AR-15 aspect is important to those who know anything about the law or gunsmithing (I know just enough about both to be dangerous). There is no single part of a gun that screams "gun" so the legal types selected the receiver, which in most guns is a great decision, HOWEVER the AR-15 lower receiver is a not terribly difficult part to make.

      Making a AR-15 lower is pretty easy (well, compared to making a upper, or a barrel). Making a lower is, legally, making a gun. The hard parts to make are everything that bolts onto a lower. Therefore its really easy to "make a AR-15".

      I'm just a hack of a machinist but if I wanted I could easily make a lower on my CNC mill. There is no way in hell, no way, not gonna happen that I could make a barrel from scratch, thats basically impossible for a guy at home. Making a bolt, bolt carrier or chamber would be right around the absolute peak of my skill on my best day in the shop ever.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by EdgePenguin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't hear home-made firearms being used in crimes much - I'm guessing because the discipline required to make something of high enough quality that it can stand firing a bullet is not normally found in the same individual as the kind of impulsiveness normally required to commit a violent crime.

      The issue here is the possibility of obtaining firearms with no requirement for discipline, training, patience, or anything else that might lower a chances person of using that firearm in anger.

    8. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You don't because you, along with the rest of Slashdot, live in and pay exclusive attention to, first world countries. This 3D printed gun thing has set off a spate of gun control articles with the attendant hand wringing and claims that people will now be enabled to perpetrate all sorts of violence.

      Meanwhile hundreds of people will be killed this week throughout the middle east and most of Africa with guns that were made in a tent by someone with no formal training in machining, who probably can't read or write, and has never seen even a conventional printer let alone a 3D one. He'll make a dozen AK 47s today and tomorrow and so on until someone kills him or he has to pack up and flee or some similar thing. This has been going on like this for dozens of years. When I was stationed in Africa the bulk of AKs we recovered after fights were made in part or often in whole, in country in the manner described above. An important factor in the design of the AK was that it could be made that way.

      But continue on fretting someone printing an AR lower.

    9. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No it doesn't. It raises the question.

    10. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by nschubach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm pretty pro-gun, but you don't hear of them using homemade weapons because machines weapons are generally easy to get. If they were not, people would be building more pipe bombs and other easy to assemble/deploy weapons. In countries where guns are not as prevalent people resort to other tools to perform crimes. Sadly, as much as guns are portrayed as deadly, other homemade weapons can be far more deadly.

      --
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    11. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by fredprado · · Score: 2

      Because it is easy to buy real guns.

    12. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by lostfayth · · Score: 2

      in such places, ammunition is typically regulated as well. that same length of pipe needed to serve as the barrel is far easier to simply club someone with.

      it truly is dead simple. in fact, you can likely find a zip gun of sorts and ammunition at your local hardware store in the form of a .22 nail gun. modified slightly, it would be rather intimidating at close range.

    13. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by vlm · · Score: 2

      Everything's a cost benefit ratio. Whats the cost of a POS handgun on the streets vs how long would it take to mfgr something?

      You still need ammo. Weirdly enough if ammo is scarce/expensive you want a real good gun not a POS, to get best advantage of the limited resource.

      I've heard in Europe the law really comes down hard on homemade firearms... like the only punishment worse than homemade firearm possession is premeditated murder. Not being complete idiots the criminals react appropriately and use knifes and clubs on each other and on the non-criminals.

      Frankly given a piece of pipe, you're better off using it as a club in europe than sticking a cap on one end and a shotgun shell and some other stuff.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    14. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      This begs the question then - why is there not more crime committed with crude, homemade firearms, especially in places like Europe where - based on what you said - it would be fairly trivial to arm yourself with such?

      Because homemade firearms are dangerous, and people aren't that stupid? When you can pick up a saturday night special for about the same cost as the materials needed to make your own weapon, there's nothing to be gained from making your own weapon.

      And despite what you may have heard, it's still fairly easy to get your hands on a weapon in a country where they're prohibited. What leads to less gun crime being committed there is that the criminals don't feel they need to carry one to protect themselves against citizens who have one, not any lack of availability of weapons. One statistic I heard was that there's actually more guns per capita in Canada than there are in the US, thanks to the proliferation of hunters, farmers, and collectors and a less urban population. (I'd google it to see if it's true and post a link, but I'm at work and that kind of thing gets filtered).

    15. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by Algae_94 · · Score: 2

      this doesn't really apply to the UK or other countries that don't have everybody armed to the teeth.

      I assume you're referring to the US with this statement. The US may have a lot more guns per capita, but there are definitely large sections of the population that do not have any guns. Then there are those that have guns that just sit in their homes stored wherever and rarely come out at all. The US is not a mad max zone of people wandering around touting firearms.

    16. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by gman003 · · Score: 2

      Because:
      * Ammunition is hard to come by in London. Not so much in Afghanistan.
      * The guns are quite a bit more likely to explode in your face (particularly if you use ammunition that's actually up to spec, instead of the low-power crap you find over there). Criminals, at least the ones who plan ahead far enough to obtain a gun, seek *profit* - they're generally more risk-averse than rebels/insurgents/terrorists, who generally are willing (if not planning) to die for the cause.
      * Legality. You can legally own an assault rifle in Afghanistan and Iraq (although I recall a one-gun-per-household limit was imposed by the occupation). So unless you're actually seen using it illegally, you can own one with no legal hassle. Not so in London.

      Interestingly, the AK isn't the only gun so cloned. One of the most common is actually the old British Lee-Enfield (SMLE Mk. 4). Apparently long-range accuracy (and reliability) trump the ability to spray 30 rounds into the ceiling.

      The tooling needed to produce a really bad copy of a bolt-action rifle is pretty simple. If I don't have it myself, I can probably find it at Home Depot. I could make myself one relatively easily, and I believe even legally (I've been told that self-made weapons are unregulated, as long as you don't sell them, but IANAL and the person I heard it from WNAL, so don't take my word for it). I just wouldn't fire the thing without a two-inch-thick steel plate between me and the weapon.

    17. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by WastedMeat · · Score: 2

      The lower reciever, for the AR-15, is the only part that bears the serial number. It is "the gun" as far as regulation is concerned. All other parts can be legally purchased anonymously . That is why this is significant.

    18. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by Fwipp · · Score: 2

      Tony Stark did it in a cave with a box of scraps.

    19. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by Princeofcups · · Score: 2

      Meanwhile hundreds of people will be killed this week throughout the middle east and most of Africa with guns that were made in a tent by someone with no formal training in machining, who probably can't read or write, and has never seen even a conventional printer let alone a 3D one. He'll make a dozen AK 47s today and tomorrow and so on until someone kills him or he has to pack up and flee or some similar thing.

      Make an AK47 in a tent? Please people, don't mod up such drivel, whatever your political views.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    20. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by gman003 · · Score: 2
    21. Re:The UK has some lead time on this by fredprado · · Score: 2

      Yes, nobody can really predict the future, but Robot Apocalypse and Grey Goo Apocalyse aside the good news is that human civilizations tends to constantly change, which is good in case we reach a Orwellian dystopia

  3. Why like that? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    I actually like gun control laws, but I can't see any way they can be enforced

    Why would you LIKE a law that is not enforceable, or wildly ignored?

    The effect of such a law is to reduce respect for all laws. When so many laws make so little sense why not simply ignore laws altogether? If you're a criminal all the time why not act like it?

    At this post most western countries are at the only real laws remaining are people's own moral compasses, and tax collection laws which are strictly enforced.

    Meanwhile governments use the fact that all are criminals to selectively harass those who are against whoever is in power.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Why like that? by rufty_tufty · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You've got me thinking, could we somehow apply market forces to laws. Only the fittest survive.
      I've heard it suggested that there should be a maximum number of laws allowed (and if you want to pass a new one you have to repeal old ones).
      How can you have law when it is not possible for even a specialist in the subject to know all the laws and how to apply them correctly. Does not the fact that a lawyer can be a specialist in one area but yet still not know if a law applies to someone not ring that something is fundamentally wrong with the system?
      The fact that I am subject to laws that I cannot reasonably be expected to know about sickens me. I can be legitimately expected to be doing illegal things through no fault of my own.
      How does that not remove respect for the law?

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    2. Re:Why like that? by Libertarian_Geek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, it's illegal for civilians to own automatic weapons made after May 1986. For the remaining automatic weapons (pre may '86); any purchase (dealer to civilian or civilian to civilian) requires a lengthy background check, fingerprint cards, a $200 excise tax and a 3 to 9 month processing delay as the forms are processed through the BATF and background checks are performed by the FBI.

      The price range of automatic weapons ranges from $3000 for an automatic MAC 10 to $15000 for an M16.

      In contrast, the combination of glass bottles and gasoline requires no such background check, is much more affordable and creates much more widespread and indiscriminate destruction. My point is that the term and concept of "gun-crime" is as illogical as "spoon-calories", or "penis-rape", or "crow-bar burglary". Further gun regulations imposed on the non-criminally minded Americans would be an iron-door-paper-house security scenario. It would provide an old stage for acting out additional plays of security theater that would rival the TSA.

      If you're curious about existing gun regulations and the burden, ask an American gun-shop owner about all of the bureaucracy that they have to struggle with. It's easy to assume that the media's narrative is accurate. It's not. You've seen it with technical stories. I don't believe that it's due to a nefarious agenda other than profit through sensationalism and the cost of getting details correct. They often blur the lines between semi-auto and full-auto. If a rifle is black and has a pistol grip and removable magazine, then it gets called a "military style" or "military assault" rifle even though the military wouldn't consider it to be an assault rifle.

      Next, our 2nd amendment is written in a very particular way as part of its checks and balances. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Because our government's authority comes expressly and voluntarily from the people, there must be a mechanism with which to resist should the government (federal or state), militia, or other citizens attempt to take more authority than was given to them through law. It's very apparent that it wasn't written for hunting, or sport. Penn and Teller have a very good youtube video on the subject. Now, the argument would be: "But if the US became a tyrannical government, what are the civilians with semi auto rifles going to do against a modern army with UAVs, Tanks, Helicopters, Aircraft carriers, etc?" 2 things:> 1st: We have a civilian volunteer army. Think through the implications of that statement. 2nd: Can you think of this situation in history? A massive, highly technical military force against a poor equipped indigenous guerrilla force. We've played both sides throughout American history and have many examples where the local indigenous forces either kicked butt, or made the fight so costly that it ended. The first one started in 1776 and the guerrilla force was us. A more modern example would be Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam. The large, technical force didn't fare so well.

      With regards to the story. The genie is out of the bottle. Multiple genies are out and have been for some time. No one can put them back in. Guns are in this country and as the Japanese said during WWII about the problems with invading mainland America: "There would be a gun behind every blade of grass." A semi-auto (and likely a full auto) gun can be manufactured surprisingly easy.

      What you don't see on the news regularly that is skewing the perspective is how many legally owned concealed carry weapons are around. I was taught to shoot from a very early age. I carry my Glock 26 wherever I go (where legally allowed). Yet, it doesn't make for very sexy news. Therefore, you don't hear about it. You don't hear about it, therefore your whole base of experience is from it going wrong. There are many examples (on a fairly regular basis) of a concealed

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    3. Re:Why like that? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      "Fully automatic weapons are illegal for the average gun owner, unless you jump through some Federal hoops"

      That is incorrect.

      May 19, 1986 was the date that the law signed by Reagan cut off all machine gun manufacturing for civilian legal sale/possesion. Anything manufactured prior to that date and already in the civilian eligible market stream can still be bought/sold/possessed by civilians. No machine gun manufactured by anyone after that date may be bought/sold/possessed by civilians. ALL of them manufactured before that date are legal to own and use. No federal hoops involved.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Why like that? by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your feelings about these things are not borne out by facts. Thirty years ago concealed carry was illegal in most of the US. One by one states started to enable concealed carry, most setting up 'shall issue' systems that would give licenses to anybody without a criminal record without question. Despite the gun control lobby whinging in every state about how this would cause 'shootouts in the streets!' it never happened. Now the US allows concealed carry in more than 80% of states, and in EVERY state with shall issue concealed carry, violent crime has either stayed the same or gone down since the law went into effect.

      Turns out, people aren't the impulsive idiots you take them to be. There are more people carrying guns regularly in the US than ever before, and violent crime has been on a fairly steady down slope for the better part of the last half century. Reality just doesn't agree with the paranoid intuition of gun control advocates.

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    5. Re:Why like that? by dbc · · Score: 2

      Partially correct, partially wrong. Some states ban automatics automatics all together. Everywhere else, you have federal hoops. You must pay for a federal tax stamp, around US$200, and spend months doing paperwork and passing background checks. Then, since these are "collectable" expect to pay US$10K or more for an automatic weapon.

  4. Again, no different then CNC or even a metal file. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For a few hundred dollars I can make a CNC mill and craft a gun out of a block of metal. Frankly, I can do much the same with a metal file. Same goes for patent infringement. Add in a 3D scanner and I can duplicate just about anything. There is nothing intrinsically special about 3D printers VS other methods of manufacturing. Its just an evolution of mass production.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  5. Reason is not conservative by geoffrobinson · · Score: 3, Informative

    Reason is libertarian.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  6. "Conservative" by Scareduck · · Score: 3, Informative

    J.D. Tuccille of the conservative think tank Reason Foundation

    You misspelled "libertarian". There is a significant difference.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  7. Re:Again, no different then CNC or even a metal fi by spiffmastercow · · Score: 2

    For a few hundred dollars I can make a CNC mill and craft a gun out of a block of metal. Frankly, I can do much the same with a metal file. Same goes for patent infringement. Add in a 3D scanner and I can duplicate just about anything. There is nothing intrinsically special about 3D printers VS other methods of manufacturing. Its just an evolution of mass production.

    Actually, there's something very different between what you're suggesting and 3D printing -- what you say you could do requires time, effort, and skill. 3D printing a gun could become no more difficult than cleaning a gun.

  8. Re:Legality of Personal Use by jmorris42 · · Score: 2

    > of course if you add something meaningful or modify the original enough for it to be a new invention, it ceases to be an issue.

    Nope. You can patent your addition but you will still need to license the underlying patent to sell your improvement.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  9. Re:Handwringing over nothing by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

    I don't think I could make a lower reciever out of paper mache, or wood, or a CNC mill. All of those take expertice in either firearms or machinery operation that I don't have. Granted, I could learn in a month or two I'm sure I'd be able to do it. But I can, right now, with no training or investigation, push print on a 3d printer. There is a difference.

    And the point shouldn't be OMG we need gun control. The point is, gun control is borderline impossible today, but in 10 or 20 years it's going to jump completely into the completely and utterly impossible side of things. We need to prepare for that as a society, not enact another law that makes it illegal to print a gun.

  10. Re:Wide range of bans, restrictions and prohibitio by JBMcB · · Score: 2

    Your average citizen cannot purchase an assault rifle. You can purchase a semi-automatic rifle that *looks* like an assault rifle. This is, basically, a hunting rifle with a different stock and a flash suppressor, neither of which increases it's lethality, but is sure does look scary.

    The extra-large capacity magazines are garbage, and jam more often than not. The military doesn't use them.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  11. Stupid article. by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

    I don't get the article.

    I don't get the article either. Making a gun using 3-D printing would have no more patent implication than making anything else using 3-D printing. The article is just attached to the gun article to make a bigger bang.

    But, they didn't print a gun using 3-D printing. They made all of the parts of the gun except the parts that actually fire bullets. According to some idiotic regulation they found somewhere, apparently the part that the bullet shoots out of isn't defined as the "gun," but nevertheless, in no reasonable use of the word did they actually print a gun.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  12. Could shake things up by Experiment+626 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Gun control is to the second amendment what censorship is to the first. These are authoritarian push-backs against the Bill of Rights giving people "too much" freedom. The Internet has shown what happens to such restrictive efforts once an enabling technology is introduced to the masses.

    1. Re:Could shake things up by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Gun control does not infringe upon your right to bear arms. Total gun bans do.

      Oddly enough, the Supremes disagree with you.

      Note that by your logic, we'd have Freedom of the Press as long as the government didn't put more than, say, a 1,000,000% tax on printer's ink (that wouldn't be a "ban", just a tax).

      Alas, the Supremes didn't buy that one either, when it came in front of them a couple hundred years ago.

      no one--not even the Founding Fathers--ever intended for your right to bear arms to include private citizens acquiring weapons with little or no oversight capable of killing mass numbers of people outside the context of the military engaged in armed conflict.

      Might want to read some of the writings of the Founding Fathers a bit more closely.

      It should be noted, for the record, that before FDR became President, ALL gun control laws in the USA reduced down to "keep guns out of the hands of the [Irish][Italians][blacks][wogs]" - in other words, it was inherently racist.

      FDR, being a freedom-loving guy, tried to pass gun control laws on everyone, and even his own Attorney General told him it was unconstitutional....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  13. Why is this a big deal? by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can make a lower in steel on a mill right now. You could make one from wood, heck even cheap plywood.

    This is not a highly stressed part, nor one that needs to be machined to very high tolerances.

    It will be news when they can 3d print a barrel.

    1. Re:Why is this a big deal? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      You can buy a barrel,no questions asked. Trying to buy a lower receiver involves background checks, permits, waiting periods and so forth. If you can make your own lower receivers, the state's power to intrude on your life is somewhat diminished.

  14. Re:Legality of Personal Use by steveg · · Score: 2

    No.

    No it doesn't.

    If your method incrorporates the previously patented method, then you are subject to that patent. If you truely added something new, you can patent your innovation. But that doesn't mean you can *build* it. You might have to get the permission of the original patent holder before you can do that.

    Of course, he can't add your patented innovation into what he's building without your permission. That's where a lot of cross-licensing agreements come from.

    Now maybe his invention inpired you to do something completely different, in which case these restrictions wouldn't apply, but adding to or transforming a previous invention still leaves you subject to its patent.

    --
    Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
  15. Re:What's Different About 3D Printing is.... by vlm · · Score: 2

    It doesn't require skills in operating a lathe, mill, grinder or other machine or hand tools. Anyone that can download a 3D file can then just press print and they will have an object.

    I remember reading the same kind of stuff about CNC milling machines, desktop publishing, desktop music production, desktop video production, about 50 bazillion iterations from COBOL to the latest CMS of art history majors claiming that now, those icky computer nerds will no longer be necessary to kept around to write business software...

    Its important, it will have an effect, but its not a miracle Star Trek transporter. Hmm maybe thats not so bad of an analogy after all, the best engineer in the fleet was constantly Fing around with the transporter yet it broke ALL THE TIME. Maybe it will be like the transporter after all... It should "just work" every time you push the button, but its never that simple in reality.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  16. Re:Again, no different then CNC or even a metal fi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well, only if you print it loaded

  17. Re:Wide range of bans, restrictions and prohibitio by timeOday · · Score: 3, Informative

    Um, those assault weapons that flood into Mexico for their drug war are being sent there by our very own ATF for the purpose of ???

    Wrong, the ATF didn't send any weapons to Mexico. What they did was try to track a few of the hundreds of thousands of guns purchased every year by individuals with suspicious purchasing patterns. They couldn't track all of them, and some of them in fact ended up being smuggled to mexico or were otherwise used in crimes. That is the "scandal." There would be no scandal if they hadn't bothered trying to track the guns in the first place. It's hard to imagine what an individual who is not a dealer might be doing purchasing hundreds of guns per year, yet that is perfectly legal (just as the NRA likes it) until/unless you later commit a crime with them. Now that the interdiction has become a political football, the flow of guns to Mexico continues as before with, at best, low-level individual purchasers being caught.

  18. We shouldn't ban 'things' but uses by scorp1us · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Short of a radioactive material and toxins, something sitting around does no harm. It is only when something is used that it can do harm. This revolution in manufacturing shows how untenable the approach of "banning" something is. We have to dispense with the idea that prevention of possession is a crime or even possible, and focus solely on damaging uses. In this way we have all the rights and all the responsibility to exercise freedom.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  19. Nobody printed a gun by DrXym · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Printing a plastic widget which holds the metal bits of a gun together is slightly different from printing a gun. Not that it would be hugely impressive to print an entire gun anyway given the thing would probably be destroyed or rendered unusable within a few shots. Doesn't help much either if you can't print the ammunition.

  20. Re:Wide range of bans, restrictions and prohibitio by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

    Wrong, the ATF didn't send any weapons to Mexico. What they did was try to track a few of the hundreds of thousands of guns purchased every year by individuals with suspicious purchasing patterns.

    Umm, no.

    The ATF told firearms dealers who reported suspicious purchases to go ahead and sell the guns anyway, so they could "trace them".

    Then they didn't bother to trace them.

    Note that telling a firearms dealer to go ahead and sell a gun to a criminal is illegal.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  21. Re:Wide range of bans, restrictions and prohibitio by Whorhay · · Score: 2

    I think you and the parent are using different definitions for "Assault Rifles"

    Some have defined them as shortbarreled rifles with a pistol grip and a butt stock. Others don't consider the same weapon an assault weapon unless it also has multiple modes of fire, usually including burst and fully automatic.

    The first definition is a little silly because anyone can shorten the barrel of a .22 and swap out the regular stock for one that has a pistol grip. The functionality of the weapon that really makes it more dangerous is the extra firing modes. And while it is possible to legally purchase weapons with burst and full auto firing modes in the USA it requires some very expensive and time consuming licensing requirements, I've heard anywhere from 4k to 10k per year to maintain such a license.

    Not that it's a strict limitation but the weapon used in CO was a $1,200 gun. Sadly enough that does put it out of the reach of a large section of the population simply from a cost perspective. And the good thing is that the guy was too much of an idiot to realize that a few much cheaper junk quality shotguns would have allowed him to do more damage in that situation.

  22. I for one am glad. by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 2

    I for one am glad that the means of production are returning to the masses. This will either gat the 3D printing outlawed or it will make capitalism obsolete. And I sincerely hope for the latter.

    --
    Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
    1. Re:I for one am glad. by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As the cost of home production decreases it will force limits on corporate profits. The oil people know this and keep the cost of gasoline low enough that electrics and alternate fuels aren't competitive. Manufacturers will have to do the same thing.

      I really think you're barking up the wrong tree with the "cost of production" angle - I highly doubt the cost of acquisition is the major delimiting factor preventing the majority of people from adopting the practice of 3D printing at home.

      Want evidence? One word: Linux.

      If the failure of Linux to be adopted by the masses has taught us anything, it's that a price tag of free does not compensate for ease-of-use and staying within one's comfort zone.

      Personally, I can't imagine most people will take an interest in 3D printing until it's as simple as giving a voice command to the Replicator. Sad, but that's the world we live in.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese