Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Unveils Outlook.com, Hotmail's Successor
New submitter faraway writes "Microsoft has just unveiled Outlook.com, the planned successor to Hotmail.com. It includes a lot of what you'd expect from email today, including storage (images, data), a calendar, integration with other Microsoft tools, and of course a clean UI. According to ZDNet, 'Outlook.com is integrated with Windows and Office, and can pull in Twitter, Facebook, Gmail and LinkedIn contacts. The new mail client has the Metro look and feel. And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"
Obvious shill is obvious. Why dont you and faraway do us a favor and remove yourselves from the site?
Is slashdot's reputation really that low that companies dont think we'll see through such a blatant attempt?
The new mail client has the Metro look and feel. And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"
Ads? What do ads have to do with email?
I notice that MS is using the success they've had with advertising on XBOX to transform their other projects into similiar Ad platforms. That is why the Metro interface looks like the XBox dashboard, so that it will be easier to slip advertisements in it. Outlook.com will be no different.
And it is providing users with more granular control over which ads they see and where they see them.'"
My local mail app doesn't show me ANY ads, it doesn't expose the contents of my email to data miners, it lets me instantly search email and compose new mail even if the network goes down, it doesn't lock me into proprietary solutions, and as a mail packrat it's let me take my mail collection with me as I move from system to system since 1984.
One thing always lacking in Outlook was search. It was there, but it was slow, and could never seem to find stuff I was looking for. I don't know if things are better in recent years with Outlook's search capabilities, but basic stuff I read around the web says it hasn't don't miss folders in Gmail because I can just search for it. And if I really want to file something in a specific place, I can use tags. I see a lot of people stumble around for a long time trying to find things in outlook, clicking through 20 different folders. On my desktop I use Thunderbird, which has really good search capabilities. Now I just have to get people to type relevant stuff in the message, so I can actually search for it. The biggest problem with search for stuff (or filtering for sorting into folders if you insist on folders) is that people don't put any useful information in the email. They'll just send a message with a subject that says "look at this" and attach a jpeg with a screenshot. Makes the email impossible to find 2 days later.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
No clippy, no thanks.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I like the way Gmail implements their classification scheme, i.e. tagging, better than folders. With folders you're restricted to a tree structure but tagging allows you to classify an email in several categories by adding different tags.
What I ended up doing with my emails at work (in Outlook) was to put every old emails into a single folder to be able to use search.
English is not this
You mean to tell me that this account with no other posts, who has nothing bad to say about using an as-yet-unreleased product, lies about the competitors features, and also implies that the aforementioned competitors url (email with the first letter changed) is hard to remember is a shill?
I never would have guessed!
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Great. I didn't have enough problem trying to explain the difference between Outlook and Outlook Express to people. Now I need to also include Outlook.com in the "Yes, they're from Microsoft and named the same, but no they're not the same" conversation.
To the person who will inevitably point out that OE is discontinued, it's still on enough workstations out there that I still receive "Why won't my OFT work in 'Outlook'" support calls.
Hotmail's spam filtering is without a doubt the worst on the web. Obvious spam ends up in my Inbox, and legitimate mail ends up in the spam.
What's worse though is when it gets fooled into thinking that the email is part of a mailing list I've subscribed to and displays all the images automatically, making the spammer aware that my email address is valid.
Summation 2
This is something Microsoft should have undertaken immediately after acquiring Hotmail. Microsoft has a strong brand with Outlook, and it makes total sense to be using that brand for their webmail offering.
Doing it at this time also makes sense. They're making a big push for a new user interface ("metro"), and this is one more place where they can integrate that interface, making it consistent across their offerings.
Of course, the devil is in the details. If they do it wrong, it will weaken their Outlook brand and push existing customers towards competitors. On the other hand, they're getting a ton of free publicity, so they have a chance to capitalize on the moment and steal market share.
Unfortunately for Microsoft, they don't have a good history of execution on things like this--most likely the new platform will be horrible, but they'll keep at it, and after a few generations, it will be a decent competitor, but that's three to five years out.
Seriously, cut this shit out. Every time an article with anything to do with Microsoft comes out, first post is from a new user and is full of praise. Nobody's buying it, so kindly cash your cheque from Redmond and fuck off
You mean to tell me that this account with no other posts, who has nothing bad to say about using an as-yet-unreleased product...
It is released, at least in the preview sense. I'm using it now (you can sign in with any Microsoft account, like an MSN or Passport one of old, in addition to the new outlook.com ones). Won't switch, but might make a new account for a junk address if I can get POP/SMTP access to it.
R.Mo
You assume it was Redmond with the post, it could very well be a competitor reverse astroturfing.
Microsoft doesn't give two shits about slashdot, nor does any other tech company.
Exactly. The comment was way too obvious. Neckbeards are easily trolled.
Similes are like metaphors
You would have more influence if you actually had any history, anywhere. But you don't.
Why would I want to customize my advertisements, I like them unobtrusive. I doubt I could turn them off.
With tagging, who needs folders.
I doubt it will be faster than gmail, what with the extra javascript required for metro.
And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?
And why would I want integration for my email.
And of course it's your honest opinion, you were most likely paid for this.
Seriously, just get out.
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
The Magic 8 Ball says "Outlook not so good"
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I can't find any mention of it, but does it include either IMAP or Exchange support? One of my complaints about Hotmail is that they still haven't provided any accessibility from software clients except through POP, and POP isn't really appropriate anymore for personal email addresses.
Really, IMO, they should be using the same connectors as Exchange so you can access the calendar and address book from software clients. It's not as though they're unfamiliar with the technology. I suppose they don't want to make a decent free email service, though, since it would cannibalize their more expensive services. I guess I'll just stick with Gmail.
I quickly looked over the new Outlook.com service and I must say I'm quite impressed.
I just looked in the litter box today, and I must say, I'm quite impressed.
Everything is clear
That would be a first for MS! We have Outlook at work (the dedicated email program) and it's the worst email client I've ever used. You have to log into the webmail component to change your email password, the password criteria are different than the mainframe and network password criteria, there are limits to mailbox and message sizes (we never had that BS with Novell's client), and they just, as Microsoft always does, completely changed the webmail interface; they moved "change password" from "Options" to the uper right hand corner, with white on yellow text. What kind of moron designs that sort of idiocy?
it works fast and the UI looks great.
I simply don't believe you. Sometimes it takes hours for an email to get to me from down the damned hall, we never had that problem with Novell and I never saw that problem with any other email system, either.
By the way, which division of Microsoft do you work for? Marketing? Because since they switched to Outlook, I hear nothing but complaints at work.
Outlook.com is also an great domain name and easy to remember.
What is so easy to remember about "outlook" unless you've been using outlook and outlook express for years? Hotmail at least had the name "mail" in in. This change from hotmail to outlook seems utterly retarded to me.
I can't but recommend you to try it!
No fucking way.
Free Martian Whores!
As honest as opinion as can be bought.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I got a.grim@outlook.com so everyone will know what an optimist I am
They have idiots at Google too, that took a good, functional UI and revamped it with a nonsensical one.
For instance: in the old Gmail, you had clearly labeled HTML buttons that said "Delete" "Compose" "Archive", etc. It was easy to find.
In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool. Now the Delete button is replaced by a tiny black icon that represents a trash can. Archive button is replaced by another tiny black icon which looks similar to the other little black icons. So basically, what used to be a two-step operation (move your mouse cursor to Delete button, click) is now a four or five-step operation. (move cursor over little black icon and hover, wait for the onHover title to see if it's the one you want, go on to the next little icon and hover, read title, then click if it's the right one).
Hotmail had 8.5 million users when MS acquired... not bad for 1997. At the time, Hotmail may have been a stronger name than Outlook. At any rate, Outlook has generally been aimed at business users while Hotmail has been aimed at home users. But I agree that they still should have done this at least 10 years ago.
One thing worth noting about this whole Outlook.com land grab: The accounts you are signing up for are not email accounts, they are "Microsoft accounts." They are keyed to Microsoft's whole package of cloudy services, so when you login to Outlook.com, you're also logging into SkyDrive, Messenger, and whatever else gets provisioned for you. If it worries you how Google seems to follow you all around the web once you're logged in, well, this is the start of Microsoft doing it.
Breakfast served all day!
It sounds like you have some pretty major implementation problems at work. Outlook is a long way from perfect, but it's certainly not the worst client I've ever used. I'll take it over GroupWise any day and it gives Thunderbird a run for its money on many fronts.
I work for one of the world's largest software vendors (not MS), and I know our PR/PM/Marketing folks do indeed care about Slashdot. They don't lose a great deal of sleep over it, true, but they are interested in what's said here about our products.
(And no, I don't work for any of those divisions--I'm in development/support.)
Hello no IMAP/SMTP support goodbye
With tagging, who needs folders.
Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason. Now she's stuck with the new Gmail and hates it. Both are available depending on your preference in Outlook.
And who has trouble remembering their email address domain? Seriously?
Obviously he meant easy to remember for other people, not easy to remember for yourself.
And why would I want integration for my email.
I have all of my facebook contacts and their emails instantly available in my contacts list. If I want to email a friend, instead of hopping on facebook to find their email, it's right there. Very convenient.
In the new UI, somebody decided that little tiny dark icons with no text description were cool.
Gear -> Settings -> Button Labels -> Text
myname@passport.com
myname@hotmail.com
myname@live.com
myname@outlook.com
I now have 4 Microsoft e-mail/IM IDs that basically do the same thing but don't talk to each other unless I manually merge them, which doesn't always work.
Thanks a lot Gates and Ballmer... and then you wonder why Page and Brin ate your lunch.
I think he means "nothing bad to say about an unfinished product," as in someone with a balanced opinion on the issue should point out the positive points as well as the shortcomings. For example, the new site is completely unusable on Opera, and the calendar and skydrive still links back to the old hotmail view. These shortcomings will hopefully be fixed. Another shortcoming is to view a picture slideshow requires silverlight. This shortcoming will probably not be fixed.
And of course it's your honest opinion, you were most likely paid for this.
Seriously, just get out.
How far we have come where the marketing campaign for a new product of this scale involves paying someone a living wage to "go out to websites like slashdot and pretend to be a real person who is excited about this new project."
Good grief. FacePalm.
There are shills everywhere though... http://plasticmacca.blogspot.com/2012/04/confessions-of-ex-internet-shill.html
A google search will reveal many others. This is big business??!??!? I wonder if I could be a paid shill... it would have to be for something I actually liked though. Meh.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Password change - So someone separated the authentication for the email from the LDAP / AD, require additional sign on? What kind of network admins do you have?
Takes hours to receive email - Sounds like a network configuration issue. Either that or the spam filtering is FUBAR. Again, sounds like network configuration. See your admin. File a complaint and get it in the resolution queue.
And make sure you are not working in offline mode.
Oh, and make sure the person down the hall didn't forget to actually send the message, rather than having it stick around in their Outbox waiting to send.
I guess Redmond's new business strategy is throw enough dirty pairs of underwear against the wall and something is bound to stick sooner or later...
Not everyone is down on the semantic labeling concept. Some people like plain old folders. For example my girlfriend switched back instantly from the new Gmail to the old one for that very reason.
I'm confused. Gmail has never had plain old folders. If anything they've improved the interface for people who prefer plain folders (like me) since adding the "Move to" menu in addition to the "Labels" menu.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Its not just praise, its a glowing recommendation. From a brand new account with two posts? FP posted the exact minute the article was posted? "A great domain name, and easy to remember" Really? Thats what makes it a pro service, that its got "brand recognition"? What slashdotter would recommend something based on branding!!! no one would!!!
Don't even get me started on their use of proper punctuation!! Look at all them commas!
are you really that naive?
he says the word great like 3 times. No one but advertisers, PHB's and marketers say the word great that many times. Not to mention superb. Who says that? someone siting in a microsoft corner office - that's who!
You can see where the marketeer tried to improvise the end there without getting the copy signed off on. Everybody wants to be creative! stick to the script marketdroid!
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
I use the Instant Search functionality for Outlook (uses "Windows Search" I believe). It completely indexes your email and attachments and I find email from several years back in only a few seconds. You can even search for tags with "categories:junk" or for specific things like "from:joe hasattachment:yes sent:2010". I believe that has been there since Outlook 2003, definitely with 2007.
Thanks for the sarcasm, snark, and general condescension which eclipse an otherwise valid point. You're a real asset to the Internet.
Try using labels as folders through IMAP. You can't. Deleting email actually removes the tag, and a few other unfriendly behaviours. Plus, the "All Mail" folder/label messes up syncronization a lot, since it duplicates all emails (again, through IMAP).
Wow, I actually tried this a few minutes.
The interface is horrible, most of the screen is generally unused, and fields (like where you write an email) have no border, so it's hard to tell where they end.
Plus, all mail is always html. No plain-text email. No option to disable this so-called-feature either, so users will only be able to send html-emails, to the annoyance of many recipients.
Time to update the spam filters from hotmail.com to outlook.com
The trillion tiny little fuck-ups by Microsoft are fully evident in this new service: I am not allowed to enter my mobile phone number because apparently "it is not suitable in my region". Right.
And I got immediately an alert that someone tried to use my account without authorization so I have to immediately change my password.
Some other localization issues and forcing me to use a language I don't want to use... oh well, thanks for reminding me of what piece of crap Microsoft products are (still).
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
You are required to pick a password of 16 characters or less - why? I blogged about maximum password length restrictions before, and I would like to hear a compelling reason why this is needed. Otherwise, I can only assume they are storing them in plaintext.
1) their CAPTCHA doesn't let humans in. I made at least ten tries, none was successful. Maybe with a bot I would succeed
2) no Android client app. I know it would hurt their WP7/8 sales, but both the mail offering and their sorry attempt at a phone OS have to prove themselves
What's more, multiple people apparently modded him up, and multiple people have modded the call-out posts (including the parent) down. Just lovely.
Could it be unpaid fanbois? Is Microsoft the new Apple?
where can i get hold of the new iWindows? does it come with rounded corners?
So, if you think the GUI is hard to figure out, just go to a setting buried three levels deep behind a menu represented by an icon lacking text to fix it!
It's nice to see some variant of the Streisand Effect at work here. First post by a shill-account and the whole conversation up to this point has been arguing about why it's clear that the obvious shill is an obvious shill. Nice work <whichever-marketing-company-won-this-particular-contract>.
Requiem for the American Dream
Maybe now I can get a Microsoft email again, now that it's Outlook.com. Many years ago, my cat signed up for Hotmail, and used her real name and age, so when they came out with that "need to be 13 years old" restriction, they froze her account. The only way to unlock it would have been to use a credit card, but if I did that, she'd be logging on to Amazon with it and ordering cases of tuna, so no way.
(Although come to think of it, she's probably 13 years old by now; I'll have to check what year we got her.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Not quite true. I was at Microsoft 14+ years (ending 2008), and we did indeed read (and talk about) Slashdot. However, the rules not to reply to posts about MS were very strict, and I don't know of anyone who broke them. I actually had permission to post as "MSN Dude" for Microsoft on web search-related sites for a while, but I had to do it openly. So if someone from Microsoft were posting here, I expect that he/she would say so.
Of course, things might have changed . . .
--Greg
You see that's the thing Mrs AC, we shouldn't HAVE to go digging just for a decent DEFAULT, we should ONLY have to go digging if we want something a little off the beaten track.
Ya know I'm really fucking sick of those that think "obtuse and fiddly" should be badges of honor, that anything more than a blinking cursor on a black screen is somehow "dumbing down". Computers shouldn't be the new fricking priesthood, okay? They should have sensible defaults but then GTFO of the way of the ones that want MORE than what the sensible default gives.
Its sad that we USED to know this, KDE 3, Gnome 2, Win2K, they gave good basic controls but got out of your way and let you get into the guts if you needed or wanted more. Now its either iPhone or blinking cursor, no damned middle ground and frankly it sucks serious ass.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.