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Should Developers Support Windows Phone 8?
Un pobre guey writes "Should you develop apps for Windows 8? Well, the hype and flogging are apparently in full swing. From the article: 'To be clear, Windows Phone 8 is not a slam dunk. Some, such as IDC, believe Windows Phone will eclipse iOS by 2016. Others, though, believe the trajectories of Android and iOS can't be slowed in the next few years. Nonetheless, I think a bet on Windows Phone 8 is justifiable, even wise, since anyone who purchases a new Windows Phone 8 device likely will want to load it with the latest and greatest apps.'"
Another reader points out that the full Windows Phone 8 SDK was leaked online recently, which led to some interesting discoveries: "For starters, it appears that the API is very much like the full WinRT API, but it has no JavaScript support. There is also no support for creating and working with Silverlight/XNA style. This is a bit surprising because I and most developers were under the impression that Microsoft would support the migration of Silverlight apps to HTML5 and JavaScript, but there isn't even support for JavaScript to access the phone's services. The best you can hope for is using the JavaScript support in IE10."
In my opinion, Windows Phone 8 would be great choice to support. Windows Phone 7 has shown that the market place is mature and most importantly, users of WP devices are filling to pay for apps. This is in big contrast to Android where most users will just try to get either your app for free, or only download free apps.
On top of that Windows Phone 7/8 supports the fantastic developer tools that is Visual Studio. There is no better IDE around and I really wish I would have it on my OS X.
will anyone hear it?
Ok, so will there really be much of a market when most fanbois will be getting x86 Windows 8 devices and skipping on Metro? Without any support on the desktop/laptop side what does Windows Phone 8 have going for it to attract developers? Single digit market share for many years should be expected with WP8 while Android and iOS split the market and continue to grow.
Just like WP6.5 and WP7, it won't matter how many hundreds of millions or even billions in marketing Microsoft spends, without the ability to eliminate Android from the market WP8 gets no love outside of Redmond WA. IMO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
for battery life when applied to small form factor batteries in mobile phones and tablets.
Will it sell? So far their phones haven't sold in any volume, even Samsungs Bada OS has sold double that.
Will you gain a skill useful elsewhere? I doubt this platform will be used anywhere else, their platforms are very fragmented at this point.
Will it succeed in a niche? Erm, well no, can't think of a niche for it.
I noted the cost ($10k) MS was charging XBox games developers to certify every app and patch and I reckon if you ever make a successful app, they'll milk all the profits out in certification fees and fees to be included in the app store.
I see FP is in love with Visual Studio, but you're probably better off getting up to speed with Eclipse at this point.
Because everyone who purchases WebOS phone will want to download the latest and greatest apps... Seriously, iOS and Android already saturate the market from both ends. There is no need for something in the middle...
As much as I hate a lot of what Microsoft has done both in terms of quality and moral choices, I have to admit they may have gotten this one right. Despite a small market share, even Steve Wozniak endorsed the phone (without being paid, I imagine). Meanwhile, though I love a lot of what Google does, there's no doubt that Android has fragmentation issues. If we see a Google-Motorolla equivalent of the iPhone soon, they may nuke the market, but past that, Windows Phone is something that just might work.
Betteridge saves the day again!
Nonetheless, I think a bet on Windows Phone 8 is justifiable, even wise, since both people who purchase a new Windows Phone 8 device likely will want to load it with the latest and greatest apps.
FTFY
No.
(Score:5, Informative)
Slashdot, news for fucking bastards, stuff that goes up your mom's ass. Also the new Digg sucks cock.
We already have IOS, and better yet android. We all know that android will be the only game in town in a few years, why not just code for it?
Should Developers Support Windows Phone 8? I am reminded again of Betteridge's Law of Headlines which states "Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word 'no'".
I am a Windows developer but if I'm going to develop smartphone apps it'll be for whoever offers me the biggest market: Android and the iPhone. Microsoft has a perfectly decent desktop OS, but instead of finding ways to reinvigorate the desktop using innovative technology (the way Jobs would have) they are chasing the smartphone market in a way that spooks desktop developers such as myself. I find myself not thinking "Windows for Smartphone" and now not even "Windows for desktop" but "Android for Tablet". Microsoft needs to stop copying other people's ideas, but just because it's immoral but because it's a lousy business strategy: It didn't work for Bing, Zune or anything else they've copied lately. If Microsoft don't do a reality test here they're heading for an even bigger disaster as they scuttle their flagship platform.
Or in 2 words: Betteridge's Law.
Nobody can predict the tech future that far out.
not should, but will developers support WP8.
The platform itself is very much comparable to iPhone or Android, and even had some nifty features that stood out from the competition when it first came out: Live Tiles and the People hub to name two. I don't know why developers never took to the platform -- there isn't a reason they shouldn't support it, and whether WP8 will change their minds remains to be seen.
The question is will anybody put up money for a Windows 8 version of app XYZ? The amount of money going
into WP8 development is a function over how many devices out in the field and how many of those in a given
party's market. I can tell you right now, WP8 is not on our scope. We're about to release device apps for our service,
right now we're doing Android and after that there will be an iOS version.
The way I see it, sorry Microsoft, but too late and too little.
Windows Phone 8 isn't even out yet and it's already irrelevant.
No one wants it:
End users don't want it because the launch phones are uninspiring and lag the competition in both specs and style. Besides, it's Windows. Who chooses Windows if they have an affordable alternative with all the apps they need?
Developers don't want it because it lacks users and so far the platform looks less capable than either iOS or Android. It's also not a sure thing in the marketplace long-term, MS has already made developers for their mobile platform redevelop everything TWICE, so any development investment has a good chance of being wasted. Backwards compatibility used to be one of Microsoft's big things, but not on mobile.
Corporates don't want it because it doesn't yet have the central management facilities that iOS, Android and especially BlackBerry have. Its basically a brand new OS for mobile and corporates take time to make decisions and switch. Meanwhile, Android and iOS are taking over and show no signs of stopping.
Also, after Windows 8 comes out for desktops, Metro is going to be the least popular user interface style on the planet after it catastrophises everyone's Windows desktop experience. This does not make for a popular phone OS.
In short: Windows Phone 8 is dead already, it's just Steve Ballmer is too desperate to keep his job to notice.
There is no "news for nerds" value in his astroturfing, so he doesn't deserve getting a front page post, nor does he deserve a break.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
I am hoping that they still announce something for XNA developers at the upcoming BUILD conference. As I've said before, no language owns 3D, not even C++. Every language should have the ability to access a hardware-accelerated 3D rendering pipeline, even HTML. I really hope they provide a way for C# developers to integrate 3D into apps (not just games).
http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/106054.aspx
If "mature" means at it's peak (and ready to decline) then I agree that WP8's marketplace of apps isn't quite mature yet. There is still some room for developers to get their apps in there. But at the current rate of growth that won't last long. I submitted a science-related app a year ago and it was the first of its kind. Now there are about 10 other apps just like mine in the marketplace and I don't get as many downloads as I used to.
Is what phone/OS a developer supports supposed to be up to some groupthink decision based on some "prevailing wisdom?"
I may be picking a few nits but this seems to be a thinly veiled form of Begging The Question considering the obvious bias in the submission.
I really thought Microsoft had a chance with WP7. I said repeatedly they could at least show a strong third place, possibly even take over Android's position.
This was based on WP7 being really well designed, Nokia hardware being really good, and Microsoft pouring a ton of money into having a really competitive app market.
But Microsoft has screwed this all up. WP7 developers have to re-work how they develop. Hardware that should have formed the base of a wave today, will not even support WP8 tomorrow!
Microsoft is still pouring a ton on money into app development but as far as introducing platforms, it's like they are starting from scratch AGAIN and WP7 never happened. They were late before, now they are WAY too late.
Perhaps they can still pull back. Perhaps Surface will do really well and drag WP8 along behind it. But they have a massive uphill climb now, that they made worse by digging down a mile or so to start with.
Good luck Microsoft, and I say that because Apple and the market in general need strong competition... but the odds look long and I hope you realize that.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
NO, they shouldn't.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Smart phones may be cool and all, but the infrastructure is missing - the network coverage is simply not good enough and what there is, is not too reliable. It may be good enough for those that mostly use messaging, but when your business depends on you being accessible and on the move, it is no good. You can't have a conversation if you lose signal every few minutes.
The thing is, once you get past the wow-factor of the iPhone et al, what you have is basically a clumsy mobile phone and a computer that is too small and slow, with an unreliable internet connection; and you are sqeezed to pay for everything you try to do, more or less. I can't see that as a lasting businesss model - the benefits are too small for the price.
MS is based on monopoly. And for monopoly, any open standard is poisonous. See how IE supports (or doesn't) HTML5.
But it is difficult to to publicly say they support open standards and at the same time try to spread Silverligth (which is MS locked).
The Silverlight-to-Win8 migration strategy is XAML. There's some different underlying class libraries/namespaces, but the basic controls (buttons, panorama/pivot) are shared between the two, which means the UI definitions can largely remain unchanged. The codebehind changes more, but if your codebehind is highly coupled to platform specifics rather than System.* .Net calls, that's the bed *you* made.
Updating an app to WinRTP is *not* a big deal.
Short answer: no.
Longer answer: Has any Windows phone really been THAT successful?
I am being sincere too. I have worked for a wireless company that I will leave nameless for over 5yrs and NO Windows phone was ever worth it. Not in the slightest.
"That's right...I said it."
No.
Not only No, but fuck No.
Suppose you've already got a game where most of the core code is written in C++ and uses OpenGL. Right there, you're hitting iOS and Android (assuming a minimal amount of Objective-C &Java simply for integrating into the platform).
Now you've got a decision: work on some cool, valuable features for the next version of the Android/iOS game, or completely re-write it using the Microsoftie languages, technologies, and UI idioms they force you to use, and have to maintain two code bases. I know which one I'd choose
Windows Phone is not going to get any real developer love until they give in and stop forcing their technology stack on us.
Microsoft, while you're bootstrapping your platform and trying to attract developers, wouldn't it make sense to make porting easier?
And of the original 11 users, yet another 1 died and so there was 0.
"Some, such as IDC, believe Windows Phone will eclipse iOS by 2016"
[quote]belief (noun): conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence[/quote] (m-w.com)
I don't see much evidence or reality in believing WP8 will eclipse anything at all. I don't believe anyone should base development decisions on the beliefs of others who seemingly don't know any better.
If anything, our collective experience should tell us that there's really nothing firm to support this blind faith in WP8.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
My wish list for mobile platform development:
Apps distributable outside of appstore
No fragmentation issues either device capabilities, or OS version issues.
Native code and complete platform API
Same code executable on desktop
No security issues... sandboxed execution to protect the user from evil apps including denying access to users phone number, sms..etc. No global file system that can be accessed with impunity by every app.
Easy access to 3d hardware
I think windows phone 8 has a good chance of succeeding.
Do you want to have a secure job maintaining those legacy systems like maintaining IE6 only webapps? Then fine go for it. If you want to have something that should still be used easily in 10 years, by all means no.
If you want something serious, use some cross-platform development system like Java or Lazarus and compile for whatever you want. Or you make a web application with a more abstract interface. For example by separating the user interface from the application logic.
Metro simply is yet another vendor lock-in in a world that has moved on years ago. Even VT100 terminals have a brighter future than it.
As usual, the answer is "no" to every headline that asks a question.
Why? Well, it's from MS and it's not yet on version 3. No point wasting anything on it. Also, it's from MS and without fail, everyone who has ever gotten into bed with MS has been fucked. They're like the Casanova of the IT world.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
M$ after XP is full scale 100% fail.
Anything they make design or suggest is utter complete bullsh1t.
You can't buy intelligence or the courts apparently.
Devs, stay the sh1t away from these golfing suv driving pinot swilling tech blunderers. Booyah we'll fuckin CRUSH google!!!
They have lost all capacity to innovate in any arena.
Why invest your mind and resources in the digital equivalent of scientology? For profit? ahahahahahhhhhhhaaaaahahahhhhhhahaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!@@
One of my clients whose company is a Android/iPhone developer was approached by Microsoft, asking them to port their applications to Windows Phone 7. They got like 2 grands for each app ported, even fart apps. This company still own the apps ported, and get all the money they receive from selling these apps, if any. Microsoft aren't buy these app, they just purely reward them for porting.
So if you asked me whether developers should support Windows Phone 8....Sure, with a fee.
It's a trap
Windows Phone 8 is't good enough to do anything about Apples and Googles dominance in the market. Microsoft teamed up with a phone vendor that nobody wants anymore. Windows 8 is too late for the tablet market and will destroy the user experience of desktop PCs. With the forced installation of Windows 8 on the new PCs they will annoy a lot of customers. Computer noobs around the world start to ask questions about alternatives when they hear about the prices of upgrading their computer to the latest Microsoft software (OS + Office). The gaming market has finally discovered alternatives, so that's another reason to stick to Microsoft down the drain.
Of course Microsoft has so much money that they won't be history soon. And they will come up with some decent OS again in the near future. However, with Vista they could get away with it because they still dominated the market and there was no serious alternative. These days there are plenty, whether you are an Apple fanboy, Linux fanboy or a "what's an operating system" noob.
what a fuckin joke i'd rather develop for blackberry
Oh wait, that was for WP7 and WP7.5 and for every version before that with tons of different names and everyone of them was hailed as next coming of the Ballmer and all failed miserably. Usually the next coming doesn't even have the decency to wait until the previous prophet has bitten the dust. 7 wasn't even out when talk of 8 start and 7.5 wasn't even given a chance and current phones with it are pretty much sold with "yeah, it will be obsolete in a matter of months and you won't be able to upgrade". And yet MS is surprised it don't sell.
Will 8 do it? The signs are hopeful. Nobody has talked about 9 yet at least.
If you do not consider the countless blunders with early versions, then WP7 and 7.5 both made the mistake of making the OS and phones horribly crippled when they were announced and just plain obsolete when they became availabe. It seems MS plans their OS roughly like this:
Planning meeting:
Bill: What did our competitors release last yet?
Steve: Well, they released X and Y.
Bill: Good, we won't have that then, what didn't they do?
Steve: Well, they didn't do W and Z.
Bill: Alright, well, lets make sure we don't that either. Time to start developing
Release:
Bill: So, did we achieve our goal of NOT having the features our competitors did not have 2 years ago but they do have now?
Steve: Yes sir! We are most certainly about to release a product that was obsolete a year ago!
Bill: And have we managed to add any insane restrictions our competitors can use to laugh at us?
Steve: Absolutely, we support just one resolution, one cpu, the smallest amount of memory to be found, no memory cards, and multi-tasking? PAHAHAHA!
Bill: Excellent!
WP8 will no doubt have similar crap. And MS fanboys will seriously post long lists explaining that all the bad bits are bad and that is takes a lot of getting used to and that it is expensive... and that is the FANBOY's defence. Seriously, read some of the posts on WP7, the fanboys can't come up with anything better then "awh, come on, please?" as a selling point.
I have no idea of what WP8 will do but if past results are any indication. DISASTER!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
While there's _parts_ of WinRT available, the XAML and UI compositors are not. App development is still full-on Silverlight with the ability to tap in the available WinRT components. All new functionality in WP8 is only available via WinRT. Which makes you wonder why they didn't bring over the whole stack then.
Also, what's curious is that Direct3D apps are C++/CX, as in creating a native WinRT component that's called from a C# stub, yet there's no template to create a blank C++/CX project. So if you were to want to write parts of your C# in native code for performance, you'd have to hack your way over the Direct3D game template.
Meego was just too far behind iOS and Android. It lacked a lot of higher level framework support newer mobile devices had... the problem was it was mostly designed before the smartphone market took a leap. It would have fared well against Blackberry or Windows Mobile...
Even if Nokia had gone all-in on Meego it would not have helped them, they'd be worse off than they are right now with at least a glimmer of hope from Microsoft.
I guess they could have also gone Android but then they would have just been another handset maker without much unique.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
New file formats, new propriatory and patented widgets and a refusal to license them could ensure that blackberry, iPhone/pad, et al can't interoperate with the Office stack.
The reasons are simple, just ask yourself "do I want Microsoft on my phone?". Yes, there is the answer. No. Nobody does. Microsoft became "uncool" long long ago. Nobody wants an uncool phone.
Microsoft missed the one boat that could have maybe just maybe gave them a fast start in the marketplace, they could have purchased RIM. They could of done away with the old timer brand "windows" for a smartphone, and used "Blackberry". Fact is, when people think about Windows they think about an antiquated PC, not some latest and greatest gotta have it smartphone. Add to the fact that Windows has very little, if any, brand loyalty. People don't feel connected to Windows as something that is a good brand. They think of it as the commodity PC, exactly the monopoly that Microsoft built, and profited from since inception.
The veeps at MS need someone cool to step through the door and get through their thick skulls that "Microsoft, Windows, Windows Mobile, Office" will never be "cool" brands. The brand will always be kind of like "Hormel" in the food space. Even if they did everything right and created the best smartphone OS out there, the masses don't want to be carrying a "Hormel Phone"
Real men don't need signitures!!!
I'm running Windows 8 preview edition on my old Atom tablet. Metro works really well and i was amazed that it works with just 1GB of RAM (sure, more would be better). There are still some things missing, but it's very fast and way how apps are designed, makes it easy to port them for WP8 devices. I'm not big fan of Microsoft, but they could be on to something this time..
My key problem (that caused me to first drop .Net and then all MS products) is that Windows programming has long been dominated by Microsoft's desire that you make your apps integrate with their Enterprise stuff. But if I am building the next Angry birds then any MS specific enterprise libraries are just bloat. You might argue that a programmer can ignore the enterprise stuff. But a good example would be that .net started out as a small library to take on Java. version 1.1 filled in some gaps but by version two office had taken over and it started getting really big. By version 2.5 it was huge and the bloat was all enterprisey.
.com style object factories.
Also everything was becoming way more complicated than it needed to be. Instead of some simple object you would instantiate and then call member functions it was all wonky with
So if Windows wants any chance for me to even look at programming for their devices I will only look if they break up their SDK into a basic SDK that will allow me access to those phone types bits such as the screen, audio, accelerometer, messaging, networking, etc. Then if I want to screw with outlook or other MS products then I will install a separate addon SDK.
Also with the SDK I don't want to follow some new fad that MS happens to be following. Just give me basic system calls with more advanced calls hidden away for more advanced features. So for sound give me a sound class with member functions such as PlaySound(soundfile). Don't initially make me use a DirectX complicated sound system that is so complicated that I end up just copying and pasting sample code blindly into my software and then hiding it behind my own PlaySound(soundfile) function. For those people who are hardcore give them a backdoor where things are necessarily weird.
So here is a bit of code that I want to be able to write (sans error handling and async stuff):
Net *net=new Network();
MSData *data=net->getFile('http://mysite.com/sound.mp3');
SoundSystem *sound_system=new SoundSystem();
sound_system->setVolume(100);
sound_system->playSound(data);
Don't make each of the above steps 10 lines long with all kinds of complicated templates and parameters. When you do that you might impress your CS professor but you have missed the point of encapsulation and the KISS principle. I love an SDK where you can start to guess the class names and the names of their member functions. So if you have a class called SoundInitSys3BuildFactory that requires that you pass it (MS_HRDWR_SYS_SPKR_EAR_HEAR2) you have failed. I would be willing to bet that MS has failed.
MS might make all kinds of arguments about good CS practices but at this point I have already bent over backwards to learn Objective-C for the iPhone. I did this because it was where the money was. But iPhone had the advantage of the being the first smartphone where the effort might pay off. At this point MS needs to study the concept of friction. For every small obstacle they put in people's way they can plan on loosing a fair chunk of their potential audience.
I'm not wasting any effort on a Windows phone. Waste of plastic and Li-Ion if you ask me.
Should you develop apps for Windows 8?
As it is a proprietary operating system, that does not allow to program against open standards, you should not do so.
If you develop for a plattform, you tie yourself to it. Therefore you make yourself (and the users) dependent on a proprietary software vendor.
So instead of developing for a proprietary system, you really should target to free (as in freedom) operating systems or open standards.
I mean you could just use HTML5 and Javascript, which will allow you to target any device with a web browser.
Wouldn't the smart thing be to write a good game for the Wii?
Only if you're a sufficiently large company. The console makers' developer qualifications (including "relevant video game industry experience") are meant to poach successful developers from other platforms, not to allow new developers to debut.
.NET is a terrific compiler and a good technology stack.
So how does one port an application's model layer (application logic, business logic, or game logic) from standard C++ or Java to this "terrific compiler and a good technology stack" without rewriting the model line-by-line by hand, which introduces bugs and violations of Don't Repeat Yourself when changes to the model in the language for one platform don't automatically propagate to the model in the languages for other platforms? This is a problem with Windows Phone 7, which requires all applications to be written in a verifiably type-safe .NET language, making ports from iOS or Android harder.
By any reasonable measures vastly richer than the stack for the web.
That's because browser developers have deliberately crippled the stack for the web, offering no API to gain the user's consent for camera and phone access or reading the user's contacts. This pushes developers to things like PhoneGap.
the future of computing [...] doesn't involve desktops, except as a relatively niche market. A reasonable tablet/phone (I assume they will end up merging, but don''t ask me how) will be all the computer that most people ever need
Then what will most people be using to create works that are viewable on a "reasonable tablet/phone"? Or are you trying to imply that those who create works are "a relatively niche market"?
So how should one test an application for WP8 without having to pay four figures for a 24-month mobile voice and data plan? Or does Microsoft plan to have Windows Pod Touch 8 devices manufactured the way Apple makes the iPod touch to match the iPhone?
They are making porting easier, just not from the platforms you think...
There are two cases of porting. The first is porting from a platform with a similar API, which makes porting the output (graphics and sound) easier. Porting from Windows to Windows Phone 8 is this case. The second is porting from a platform with a similar input device, which makes porting the input and game balance easier. Porting from iOS or Android is this case. If Microsoft wants to concentrate on the first case, then how easily will games designed for a mouse and keyboard, where either the mouse is used in some capacity other than pointing and clicking or the keyboard is used heavily or both, make the transition from Windows to Windows Phone 8?
There's iPhone OS, Android, Maemo, Symbian, and Windows Phone. In no particular order.
Anonymous Coward mentioned Bada, and where's BlackBerry?
Unlike most people on the site here I think the Windows 8 platform is the correct direction for Microsoft to go. To not have a major phone or tablet platform would spell the death of the company--guaranteed. While they are certainly playing catch up you cannot argue that in 3 years they've turned around something that most major companies cannot do. Microsoft is an 800lb gorilla that somehow manages to put its muscle behind everything it does.
The Xbox platform has succeeded in the market to being a dominant player in the space. 10-12 years ago people swore that the Xbox would fail and that nobody could compete against Sony. Yet here we are today where the Xbox 360 has been a mature platform that drove forward online play for end users.
I suspect the merger of the platforms across the board will drastically improve the integration of products that right now are jarring to use. Hopefully MS can smooth out the rough edges.
"which came first, the chicken or the chicken?"
For certain values of "came"...
I suspect that Wine won't matter much. Emulation has never been popular.
For one thing, Wine Is Not an Emulator. For another, if emulation has never been popular, why has Nintendo introduced Virtual Console to compete with PC-based emulators that run infringing ROM images of games for discontinued video gaming platforms?
Anyway: supercomputers: Linux, embedded: Linux, servers: Linux, desktop: Windows, Mac, Linux...
Set-top devices: not Linux, at least not in the sense that end users can easily install community-made applications on them.
They aren't moving enough Windows Phones to get out of the "Others" ghetto in market share analysis:
http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/07/Strat_ana.jpg
This is the latest report and yet again, the "Others" category contracted. It is now at 4.0% total containing who knows what because new WindowsPhone7, but likely old Windows Phone6.x that is shrinking faster than WindowPhone7 is growing.
iOS/Android = ~90%
Blackberry = ~6%
Others = 4%
IMO it is questionable if you should bother supporting Blackberry, let alone delving for real scraps in the "Others" category.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Which is their little way of saying, "Fuck you, we've got ours. Bend over and rewrite from scratch in the new platform that your customers will soon demand. Oh, and we won't help you. Even the littlest bit, because you're just a pesky developer and not a corporate client. Now, go twist in the wind while we retire to our summer homes."
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Don't think Windows Phone 8 is anything to laugh about huh? Well that's fine. No problem. Don't develop for it. Ignore that it will be able to compile native code, which means soon after release any programming language written in C/C++ will be ported to the platform (MS's C/C++ compiler, though it adds new APIs can still compile standard C/C++. You don't have to use MS APIs or types, you just don't get the full functionality of the OS as with any other OS). Ignore the idea that it will have the same base kernel and driver support that the PC will have. Go ahead an keep ignoring that. I doubt MS will leave the phone with only Direct X support for long. I suspect OpenGL will be ported to some extent in this version, and further in Windows Phone 9. Java will be ported and you will have a phone capable of doing everything a PC can do. In fact, if the kernels are the same, a full fledge java may run right out of the box. By the time Windows Phone 9 hits I suspect the differences between the PC and phone kernels will be minimal, if they exist at all.
Can android and iOS compete with a nearly full fledged PC? We are about to find out.
emulators as primary support to be in regular use
What is a Java, .NET, or JavaScript virtual machine if not an emulator?
By making it a requirement you are absolutely correct that makes porting from a low level language complex, maybe even a full on rewrite. But I don't see how that's a failure of .NET.
The failure is that .NET on iOS or Android costs a developer hundreds of dollars per year payable to Xamarin in addition to the $99 per platform per year app store fee. A student or hobbyist tends not to have that kind of money.
A secure version of Active-X would be incredible.
That's what Google Native Client is supposed to be.
This guy showed the world how well that works out.
I mean seriously expecting a good discussion the moment "Microsoft" is in the title?
I do agree that pre-WP8 is a shambles, which is why Windows Phone's have remained a distant 4 th in the mobile race.
Also it is very difficult to be enthused about a platform that has so little market penetration.
However the current Windows 8 development platform (across all device types) is shaping up to be quite impressive and considering Microsoft finally has a kernel that works across mobile/tablet/desktop platforms, its looking good that it might finally be an enjoyable platform to target.
I think Microsoft needs to promote the "pay to develop" model to get developers hooked on their platform as the are not going to come willingly.
However the biggest error in the comments I am seeing is that people seem to forget that the MOST prolific development platform on the planet is Windows. Its not iOS, its not Android, its not Linux. There are more Windows desktop applications then any other platform combined, and this includes many many open source projects.
MIcrosoft finally unifying their development across all platforms, opening up to allow "shudder" the HTML/JS developers on board for semi-native apps, and unifying API's such as Direct X, the sheer number of capable developers available to produce content is signification and should not be overlooked.. I would argue that there are more developers available for Windows Phone then any other phone platform combined.
However; is it too little too late? Will those developer's cross into phone/mobile development and will that be enough to make WP8 succeed I guess we will find out in the next year or so. If Microsoft can't make WP8 work then they should drop out of the mobile market altogether because this is the most directed push into the market I have seen them do yet.
Most of the comments are so ridiculously biased against Microsoft that you can't expect any real discussion about the merits of their new development platform when the vast majority of commentators are clueless about it.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Then do the exact opposite of what he advises.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Yes. If that's what they're being paid to do, that's their job. If they don't like it, they should resign.
Pre 7.0 apps need major retooling, if not a complete rewrite, to work with 7.x. And then it has to be done again for 8? Why would people bother? Hell, even Apple maintains some level of compatibility from one release to the next.
If Microsoft's goal is to throw a mulligan across their entire Windows 8 brand, they are succeeding marvelously.
Let me get this straight. No Javascript support, no Silverlight/XNA support? You realize there are no other options (all WP development is currently done with Silverlight/XNA)? Is this article suggesting that there will be no support of any app development?? I highly doubt that. Clearly some facts need to get checked. I will not be buying one myself, but no need to make M$ look any worse than they already are by misrepresenting the facts and presenting wild (stupid) speculation as technical facts.
Should developers support Windows Phone 8? No. *MIcrosoft* should support Windows Phone 8. Now be a good boy and go fetch your uncle a beer before he cuts you out of his will.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Most of the comments take into consideration the US and European market. If WP8 is almost as good as android\apple, then it has a strong potential in emerging markets - if marketing is done right, it can definitely take a substantial market share in Asia(Esp India or China). Just because all the previous incarnation failed, it doesn't mean the new one will. It will be really hard to gain market share, but with right approach, its possible.
Windows Phone is now in the position that Apple was, at the height of the PC era - a proprietrary closed platform. One difference though. It has no users, whereas apple had a few percent.
Who is going to waste the time on a platform that is closed, proprietrary, expensive, and used by no one. Not me. Add to that, the fact that just about everyone hates Microsoft, as a results of their various recalcitrant behaviours, both past and present, the fact that carriers don't want to do business with MS for various reasons (eg. VOIP), and the fact that Microsoft has been attacking and blackmailing various manufacturers with some of the weakest and most embarassing patents, and the fact that ever past MS partners has been royally screwed butt-wise, and you have the most doomed to fail platform in history. If I was a mobile maker, I wouldn't dump any of my cash into the Microsoft void.
Are there actual physical processors with the JVM or CLR instruction set - that predate either virtual machine?
Why must the hardware's availability predate that of the VM? Phone emulators are often distributed to developers before the corresponding phone is sold to the public, so I guess that requirement makes them not emulators by your definition. If the requirement is dropped, Java Card and Jazelle qualify as hardware that can execute JVM bytecode.
Emulation has never been popular.
Would PowerPC Macs have sold well if they couldn't run any 68K applications? Would Intel Macs have sold well if they couldn't run any PowerPC applications?
Lots of free software becomes available and for all but the most demanding tasks they switch.
In practice, some of these "demanding tasks" aren't demanding on the CPU as much as on artists and on lawyers. Examples include video games, software to play back rented films, and software to prepare tax returns.
Microsoft routinely make their own developers bankrupt by skimming them periodically: upgrade, pay up or die... .NET technology? tough luck,now go learn some HTML5 and consider that a career advancement :-)
Whatever skill you develop for any Microsoft technology will last less than 18 months, so will any codebase you produce now using Microsoft products.
Smart developers are tired of being milked like cows and are abandoning the sinking ship.
Have you invested deeply in
Unless you've been living under a rock, MS is cool again.
Surface, W8, WP8, Azure, Kinect, Outlook.com,...