Microsoft Working On "Surface 2" Tablet

SternisheFan snips this news from Tech Radar: "The Surface tablets that Microsoft will start selling on 26 October at Microsoft Stores (and in temporary 'holiday stores' in twelve US cities including New York) are only the first of a planned family of Windows devices and Surface 2.0 is already under development. Although Microsoft corporate communications chief Frank Shaw said recently that calling Surface 'our new family of PCs built to be the ultimate stage for Windows' was no more than 'literary licence' and that there was nothing more than the two tablets already announced, the Surface team is 'currently building the next generation' of 'devices that fully express the Windows vision' — according to more than a dozen job adverts posted on the Microsoft Careers site between June and August."

Comments

Building the microsoft vision

[phantomfive]

'currently building the next generation' of 'devices that fully express the Windows vision'

The Windows vision is to make Microsoft money. They have no clue how they'll do it, but they're going to try.

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[symbolset]

Obviously they'll take share and make money by making Windows not work as well on the hardware of their OEM competitors. That won't be hard to do as they must write the drivers for the hardware - the OEMs can't - and these days they're streaming updates so they can make your Dell PC gradually progressively worse instead of waiting for a new Windows version. This has been their go-to strategy with software competitors since, I think, 1986.

Just in case you're going to get all [citation needed] on me... Here's Microsoft's internal communications about doing this to Novell and here is the painful Novell internal emails about how Outlook 95 broke email on install for users Novell's GroupWise. These are just two recently transcribed documents of 3,600 from the Comes v. Microsoft case that was settled just a few days after the plaintiff put the documents up on their website because Microsoft failed to seal them - and they are all very, very bad. Fortunately some thoughtful people archived them.

OEMs have always known that Microsoft did this to software vendors, and they looked away because they were getting theirs. Lotus, Borland, Aldus, Ashton-Tate and many others fell the same way. Well now it's the OEMs turn to play Microsoftball blindfolded and with their legs hobbled, giving their competitor an advanced look at their strategy.

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[phantomfive]

Windows is one of the only things that actually brings Microsoft profit.

And do you think it will continue to do so on the tablet? There is nothing about Microsoft Tablet that says, "yes, people will by this in hoards." Who do you know that is planning on standing in line on the release day for a Microsoft Tablet?

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[Sir_Sri]

There is nothing about Microsoft Tablet that says

True, but the plan of developing software, prototyping hardware and hoping the 3rd party manufacturers would make something materialize that was worth buying didn't work, and they tried that plan for 10 years.

Trying something else may not go anywhere either. But clearly the last plan didn't work, and somehow android has been adopted for slate form factors even though no one ever tried that with windows, when it could have been tried* years before the iPad. I suspect this is microsofts way of negotiating with it's hardware providers, they better get off their collective arses and start at least trying different things, or microsoft will.

*caveats. Yes they had convertible tablets, I've owned several over the years and they worked quite well for a lot of things. And yes, they had slate form prototypes in what, 2002, but no one tried to market those for whatever reason.

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[ozmanjusri]

Why is this being moderated Troll?

This is exactly what Microsoft do. They have always tried to make subtle incompatibilities for competitors products.

Java, Secure Boot, OOXML, H264, their ACPI trickery, Mono/Silverlight and so on ad nauseum.

Even Microsoft knows they're an unreliable business partner. This is from their SEC filing: "...our Surface devices will compete with products made by our OEM partners, which may affect their commitment to our platform." "Users may increasingly turn to these [mobile] devices to perform functions that would have been performed by personal computers in the past," "Even if many users view these devices as complementary to a personal computer, the prevalence of these devices may make it more difficult to attract applications developers to our platforms."

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[hairyfeet]

Uhhh...those were under gates, who hasn't been running the show since 1999 and frankly it shows. personally I'd much rather have Gates as he may have been a bastard, but he was a bastard that could build good office OSes.

No dude what we have here is just another chapter in the continuing saga of Steve "I wanna work in Cupertino LOL!" Ballmer, the used car salesman of the corporate world. what we'll get is half assed knockoff that won't work worth a shit and will bomb, simple as that. hell look at the man's track record, Zune, Kin,WinCE, WinPhone, pushing out the X360 with a 2 billion dollar hardware flaw...the man can snatch defeat from victory quicker than the PHB from Dilbert.

So seriously dude, the 90s are over, get over it, okay? windows will stay on X86 which is gonna be like washers and dryers in that nobody will replace until the previous one dies, and if you want someone to be scared of you need to be scared of Brin and Cook, not Ballmer. The days of "the big bad M$" are as gone as the days of "the big bad big blue IBM" are, its over, its done, the fat lady is down the street having a sammich.

Ya wanna know what happens to the OEMs? Here let me break out my crystal ball...Win 8 shits the bed, OEMs demand win 7 downgrade rights and get it, WinTabs end up on Woot! for 80% off as people wait around the block for iPad 5.awesome. Frankly Gabe at Valve will come out with a Steambox and drive another nail in the coffin for MSFT, Ballmer will retire declaring victory based on how many win 8 licenses sold (while ignoring that like Vista its just a DVD sitting in a box that nobody uses) and once fatboy is gone the board will bring in somebody with a brain, maybe lure Allchin or Ozzie back, and MSFT will become the new IBM.

So get over it friend, just let it go. MSFT won the desktop which is flatline and will stay that way, Google will lock down Android and they and Apple will control mobile with an iron hand, meanwhile you'll shake your fist at the old tiger in the corner wheezing and limping along because once upon a time they were actually scary.

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[Anonymous Coward]

Google will lock down Android and they and Apple will control mobile with an iron hand,

Oh dear, credibility is so hard to come by and so easy to shed.

Android is open source, and Google is opening code releases faster with each version. They may be tightening controls on their repository to combat malware, but the OS is free and staying that way.

http://source.android.com/

Android share of the smartphone market is around 60%, roughly double that of Apple. Apple may have an "Iron hand", but that just means the more they tighten their grip, the more market share will slip through their fingers.

http://niche-marketing-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Sales-Mar-121.png

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[symbolset]

Wow that's a thoughtful, complex post. Let's deal with these issues one at a time.

Para 1: Bill is gone. Bill Gates remains the chairman of the board at Microsoft, and hand-picked all the other board members - who pick the CEO and evaluate his performance, give him goals and guidance, set his pay, bonuses and options, and set policy. Bill is still very much responsible for what goes on there, and weighs in on every big decision.

Para 2: Steve Ballmer. You neglected to mention the sea of red ink that is Microsoft's Online Services Division. I happen to like the direction Steve Ballmer is taking Microsoft. Clearly this is a man with vision and purpose who is ready and able to take the company where I want it to go. It takes Marvel Comics level superpowers to get rid of this much cash flow, to destroy a 42 percent success in mobile market share from 2007 given their advantages and high hopes, to so capably destroy the morale and productivity of the world's best developers, to put a company with this much income in $55B of debt. So let's lay off of Steve-o, mmkay? I like him where he is, sweaty shirt and all.

Para 3: No more Big, Bad MS. With the OOXML debacle that nearly ruined ISO, their recent rape of Nokia, their current ongoing rape of OEMs, retail vendors of both their products and Windows PCs, their planned rape of software distributor partners, developers and competing independent software vendors and much much more they prove every day that they have not changed. Last week they confirmed they're going to murder the advertisers they bought relationships with in an acquisition by making "Do Not Track" the default in IE. Just yesterday it came out that the new replacement for Hotmail, Outlook.com is incompatible with Android. The "new kinder, gentler Microsoft" is a myth. They have now declared war on absolutely everybody on Earth, including the people who pay for their products and excepting only the Women's Temperance Union and media executives. Naturally this means I expect them to announce an embedded bittorent feature for IE that involves a drinking game next.

Para 4. Ballmer outbound. Steve Ballmer is not retiring for another seven years at least, when his last kid goes off to college.

Para 5. Immortal desktop victory. It's not enough to take ground. Once you take ground, you have to hold it. MS won mobile with 40% share too [link above], once upon a time. And now they'r

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[Hognoxious]

Of course, this is phones shipped and not phones sold. Nobody actually buys an Android phone, they get it free with their plan.

I often wondered why the telcos don't pass on their cost by rolling it into the subscription charges.

Now I know why. There's no cost, because the service providers get them for nothing with free express unicorn delivery.

Re:Building the microsoft vision

[ozmanjusri]

I have one in my hands right now. It's a reasonable machine, certainly usable for web browsing, Facebook, email, Skype etc. Pretty much what most people use their computers for.

Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Surface 1 is done. Of course they are working on Surface 2 and maybe even Surface 3.
In other news, Apple is working on iPhone 6.
Samsung is working on Galaxy S4.

And so on...

Re:Why is this news?

[Alter_3d]

Meh. Wake me up when they reach Surface 7. But not Surface 8. I hear it looks too much like a PC.

Re:Why is this news?

[McGruber]

It's news because it indicates that Microsoft's marketing department does not know of Osborne Computer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation

Re:Why is this news?

[sootman]

Who wants to wait that long? Surface 3.11 for Workgroups is when I'll buy.

Re:Why is this news?

[wvmarle]

Apple will formally announce and show off a new version when it's ready, and usually has it available in the shops the next day. Everything else is just rumours, but it continues to surprise me how much Apple lives up to the rumours. They live up more to unofficial rumours, than MS lives up to their own pre-product announcements.

Everybody knows a company will not stop developing when a product is out. But announcing and starting to show off a successor changes the game a lot, as it gives people something concrete to wait for.

Surface 2 -- Zune's Revenge!

[Anonymous Coward]

Coming soon to a Marked Down bin near the check-out counter near you!

It sucks to be a Windows OEM right now

[93 Escort Wagon]

Actually, a more accurate statement would probably be "it sucks to own stock in a Windows OEM right now". It's pretty obvious Microsoft intends to emulate Apple; and, if everything goes according to plan, the OEMs will all shrivel up and die.

On the bright side, Microsoft may fail.

Re:It sucks to be a Windows OEM right now

[UnknowingFool]

If MS makes a version they have a big advantage in cost. OEMs have very thin margins as it is. MS making computers will pay a lot less for Win 8 as it will be an internal cost. Even if OEMs pay as little as $20 for Win 8, that's $20 MS doesn't have to pay.

Re:It sucks to be a Windows OEM right now

[swillden]

It's pretty obvious Microsoft intends to emulate Apple

Not very well. Have you ever heard Apple discussing the next version of their product before the current version ships? No, Apple is much too smart to do that. Every new Apple product is the greatest thing ever and all focus is on that greatness and how everyone needs to get that greatness now. Even as the last product ages and it becomes clear to everyone that Apple must be getting close to releasing the next version, they keep it mum until they can announce it with huge fanfare as the new greatest thing ever, and start shipping it immediately. Further, they carefully hold that announcement until inventory of the previous model is depleted so they're not left holding unsaleable units.

I know that's not what you were referring to, but talking about Surface 2 right now is a bonehead move that Apple wouldn't have made.

Osbourne Effect

[cpu6502]

I'm not buying a Surface 1.0.
I'll wait for the Surface 2.0 instead.
--
"The name comes from the planned replacement of the Osborne 1 computer. In 1983 founder Adam Osborne pre-announced several next-generation computer models (the "Executive" and "Vixen" models), which had not yet been built, highlighting the fact that they would outperform the existing model. A widely-held belief was that sales of the Osborne 1 fell sharply as customers anticipated those more advanced systems, and dealers cancelled orders." And the company went bankrupt.

Other examples:
"In 1978, North Star Computers announced a new version of their floppy disk controller, which had double the capacity, to be sold at the same price as their existing range. Sales of the existing products plummeted and the company almost went bankrupt."

"When Sega began publicly discussing their next-generation system, barely two years after launching the Saturn, it became a self-defeating prophecy. This move, combined with Sega's recent history of short-lived consoles, led to a chain reaction that quickly caused the Saturn's future to collapse. Immediately following the announcement, sales of the console and software substantially tapered off in the second half of 1997, while many planned games were canceled, causing the console's life expectancy to shorten substantially."

Re:Osbourne Effect

[Mabhatter]

Really, they need to be more tight lipped. One of Apple's points is that they don't leak, so they don't lose sales "waiting". You can't "go back" and get money customers didn't spend this quarter... It's gone. People that wait generally didn't keep the money handy, so they don't buy "more".

Apple is already citing that as a reason for diminished quarter... Because everybody KNOWS we get a new iPhone, iPad, iPod each year.

The obvious question is that if Surface 1.0 isn't released, why are they working on 2.0? Microsoft hasn't released ANY Surface yet... Stop assuming anybody will care about the NEXT one... Or worse, what features are they going to leave OUT? This becomes like iOS updates where people get upset when only this YEAR's model gets all the new features.

Re:Osbourne Effect

[Threni]

They did the same with their phones:

http://mashable.com/2012/06/25/lumia-why-no-upgrade/

Release v7 phones then announce that they won't be able to work on v8 phones.

Guess it's a bit like their close partner Nokia, with the famous Burning Platform memo:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/

Re:Osbourne Effect

[__aaqvdr516]

Apple might not leak, but is it really surprising that any company is working on "the next version"?

What company in their right mind would put out a device and say "yep, I think we'll just stop developing anything further for the next 5 years while we sell this one."

The only thing that needs to be held under wraps is potential release dates.

Re:Osbourne Effect

[ceoyoyo]

Windows XP?

Re:Osbourne Effect

[RocketRabbit]

What do you mean what was he thinking? It's obvious to everybody that he's a torpedo executive sent to sink the Nokia ship. In that sense he is exceeding all expectations!

Re:Osbourne Effect

[rtfa-troll]

By now, everybody knows that iPhone and iPad get refreshed in one year cycles. The only thing you don't know in advance is what, exactly, will change in the next version. But then you don't know this here, either.

Apple has been pretty consistent in ensuring that at least two devices into the past are supported. This means that even if you buy the previous version of an iPad around when the new one is launched, or even up to a year later, you can be pretty sure that you will be looked after for most of the lifetime of your device. One of the biggest problems with Android devices and the best reason to buy a Nexus is that only Google has been similarly reliable with future support. Microsoft, on the other hand has clearly shown it's hand with the Windows Phone 7 to 8 transition. The first buyers are considered paying beta testers who are expected to upgrade again.

We're going to hear arguments that that doesn't apply to Windows 8 which is the all new platform and has all the new Microsoft stuff. Whilst that might apply to Windows on the desktop, the chances are that on the tablet they will have to make quite radical changes. Most likely either x86 or ARM will be killed. There's no way that such a tiny ecosystem can support the level of fragmentation which two processor architectures with totally different power characteristics suggest. Worse, it's impossible to tell which; if Microsoft knew they would have already done so.

Re:Osbourne Effect

[rtfa-troll]

I mean, what the fuck was the point of that?

Remember, even in a private company, the CEO doesn't have full decision power. The board can effectively overrule him and he can't get rid of the people under him or fully control them without the board's support. A number of those people probably looked at Microsoft's history in mobile (Microsoft's market share has continually declined overall in mobile having previously been in double digits) and foresaw disaster.

Elop was setting out to destroy the power base of people who might try to push for backup second strategies. In doing that he was trying to force any sane members left on the board over to his side. I'd say he was successful in that. There seem to be two explanations going around for why he wanted to do that 1) he was crazy and believed that only complete commitment to Windows could save the company 2) he actively and deliberately wanted to destroy Nokia. As I see him killing off further products which could have bought him time and money (N9 / Meltimi) I get more and more convinced of 2).

Re:Osbourne Effect

[rtfa-troll]

Hey dumbass! You didn't see the quotation marks?

It's an interesting thought that you are totally right. If I see a quote in quotation marks without an attribution I immediately know that it's from Wikipedia. That is an amazing level of cultural power when you can start to change the rules of grammar and citation.

Re:Osbourne Effect

[martin-boundary]

I'm not buying a Surface 1.0. I'll wait for the Surface 2.0 instead.

That's very courageous of you. Me, I'm waiting for Surface 3.11!

It'll all end in tears.

[gallondr00nk]

Or more likely, end in mediocrity.

Alpha release

[pubwvj]

They have not yet released version 1.0.
They didn't let reviewers at their media event actually use it.
They're already announcing version 2.0.
Me thinks v1.0 was the alpha to test the waters and they found serious problems.

Re:Alpha release

[unlucky ducky]

They did not announce a version 2, they announced job application spots for a later generation of Surface devices. Not only could this be referring to other kinds of Surface devices, but even if it was an updated version of the first it shouldn't come as a surprise that Microsoft is planning newer devices. Personally I would find it a whole lot more strange if they weren't developing newer possible versions of their products.

Re:are linux and osx...

[gagol]

But you CAN install another DE like XFCE... use what is best for the platform you use.

Re:Surface x86 Tablet looks great!

[gagol]

To me, it seems to be a giant detour to convince us to use only "Trusted" computing. Tablets are computers, only artificially limited and overpriced. We (consumers) are footing the bill for a future where all platforms will be walled garden monopolies. If you like it, kudos to you. I am not touching closed system with a 10 miles pole as I do not want my children to live in a world where computing is limited and watered down.

Simple user interfaces have a place, but why insisting on getting down the throat of everybody? Why not set a parameter to express the level of simplicity you need (child/regular/pro). I just cant figure why we dont have this already!

The Surface 2...

[roc97007]

...is the one that will actually work...

Re:The Surface 2...

[EnsilZah]

Bitch please, Surface 3.11 for workgroups.

Re:Surface x86 Tablet looks great!

[Dynedain]

Why do you want x86 on a tablet if you don't want Windows?

If you want to run Linux well there's already Android on Atom and other processors.

Re:More vaporware from Microsoft...

[0123456]

They can certainly freeze the Windows tablet market...

Another DeVry MBA

[Hognoxious]

Because if they did that, it would have to be a line item that they charged you for on the bill.

Really?

When you buy a beer is there a line item for electricity, another for glasswashing detergent, another for depreciation of the stool you're sitting on?

Not unless you're on Ryanair.