First Pictures of Apple's New Mini Connector

tad001 writes "The Daily Mail has pictures of Apple's new mini connector. The photograph, shared by French tech website nowhereelse.fr, shows two components, one of which is said to be similar to another apparently leaked picture of a part of the new iPhone. As well as the new dock connector, the part also seems to take in the headphone jack and the home button connector for the hotly awaited devices."

Comments

Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[Anonymous Coward]

Nasty, racist tabloid. Has no place on this site.

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Nasty, racist tabloid. Has no place on this site.

How can you be so mean to the Daily Heil?

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[Anonymous Coward]

So what's wrong with racists? These days they're the only honest people left.

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[rexkbh2100]

Yeah because it's such a reputable source of tech info Periodic proprietary connector design changes are like death and taxes...well more like taxes actually as they are done to generated cash.

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[ThePeices]

So what's wrong with racists?

They are racist lowlife scum.

These days they're the only honest people left.

So racists admit to being racist lowlife scum....your point being.....?

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[retchdog]

racists actually taught me a lot. the more coherent racists generally take a political stance about "white solidarity" (or black, jewish, &c.).

now, bear with me a second: part of what makes politics confusing, is that there are sophisticated ideologies trying to make sense of the unknown (i.e. predict effects of policy). on the other hand, politics is also about group identity and community.

racists are an interesting case, since they have very strong views which are almost exclusively about group identity. they're like drosophila for studying ideology. now, having studied racists fairly thoroughly, i can look at political discussions and say, for example, "oh, this looks a lot like a forum on stormfront, just replace [communist] with [jew]." this tells me something about the discussants and suggests maybe i shouldn't take what they're saying too seriously, and i should look for other discussions.

also, by the way, i've met some racists, although admittedly very few, who are quite intelligent and successful.

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[AK Marc]

So racists admit to being racist lowlife scum....your point being.....?

I think his point is there are two types of people, racists and racists who lie about being racists.

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[Anonymous Coward]

Racists are merely bigots and every single person in this world is a bigot in some way.

I don't care about racists. In fact, I am racist myself. The difference for me is that I discriminate equally. I have shit to say about all races, including my own.

Re:Say "NO!" to the Daily Mail

[Plumpaquatsch]

So what's wrong with racists? These days they're the only honest people left.

Cue to the Hungarian anti-Semitic politician who turns out has Jewish grandparents and wasn't to honest about it. http://www.thespec.com/news/world/article/780622--anti-semitic-hungarian-politician-discovers-jewish-roots

Let the lawsuits begin..

[Krojack]

for any look-a-like dock connectors!

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[squiggleslash]

Please! Please! If Apple sued other manufacturers over violating their "Milk the customer by using a proprietary dock incompatible with everything else" patent, then the handful that don't would be forced to include proper working charging/HDMI/USB input/output using the standard connector used with microUSB and MHD.

Also Apple, if you could sue over "Locking devices down to only run approved apps", "Mechanisms to prevent modders from replacing your firmware with their own on their own devices" and similar actions, hey, I might even start to like you again!

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[cpu6502]

Quoting in your sig the worst Star Trek show ever made? Wow. And yes Apple will get sued: By the European Union which mandated a standard connector (mini USB).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[GameboyRMH]

Also Apple, if you could sue over "Locking devices down to only run approved apps", "Mechanisms to prevent modders from replacing your firmware with their own on their own devices" and similar actions, hey, I might even start to like you again!

Yeah they can sue Nintendo, Sony and MS for copying them over this and I won't bat an eye.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, I do not even remember that there are many more lawsuits regarding dock connectors. I say unfortunately because right now, Apple dominates the world connector dock (and gets royalties off of that). You're lucky to get a 3.5 mm plug dangling outside the wire for connecting other audio devices and just get on them, lucky if there is a microUSB cable to any load. This is partly due to the design of devices, of course - it's easy to make a dock that works with virtually all iPods and iPhones to date, which are very popular devices, and not so easy to make a station home that will work well with hundreds of devices much less popular.
The other part, however, is that Apple does not seem to license out their dock connector on the side of the unit. I say "seems" because I do not know this for a fact - but I can not imagine the manufacturers of other devices sitting there watching all these docks (speakers, receivers, media players, even cars ) and do not think it would be rather nice if their devices could be interfaced with them.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Desler]

No they won't. They provide an adapter which complies with the rules.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[msauve]

There is no such "mandate." The EU encouraged, and some set of cell phone manufacturers voluntarily agreed to, the adoption of the micro USB connector for charging. I don't know if Apple was part of that group, I suspect not. It's not required by law, although Apple does provide an adapter which allows using micro USB chargers.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

So please tell me what non proprietary connector allows any old dumb device to control functionality like line in, line out, volume, power, video out, and controlling playback? This can all be done by sending analog signals over certain pins. For very cheap devices a USB controller and the supporting chipset and software is not an option.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Desler]

Apple was part of the group.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[squiggleslash]

I completely disagree that a USB controller and supporting chipset isn't an option, a quick pop into Wal-Mart will show you any number of ridiculously cheap USB devices. Hey, forget Wal-mart, here's an $8 USB keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/107-Key-Windows-Keyboard-Black-USB/dp/B0038M3YM8 (do you think the most expensive part of the $8 cost is the USB chipset?)

So, ruling USB back in, the obvious solution is the micro-USB connector.

* Line in is a standard USB protocol, likewise line out (hence those USB headsets you can get.)
* Volume likewise can be implemented by supporting HID - Volume up and down have been standard keystrokes for a while on virtually every multimedia keyboard.
* Power is a standard part of the micro-USB connector, we can charge using it.
* Video out is supported by MHL, which is fast becoming a standard in the Android world.
* And finally, controlling playback is also supported by HID, again Play/Pause/Rewind/Fastforward are part of every modern keyboard, using standardized keystrokes.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[jellomizer]

If they offered a Mag Lock type of technology, I think I would be a bit more interested. If they are just getting a smaller connector you might as well use what everyone else has.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[icebike]

So please tell me what non proprietary connector allows any old dumb device to control functionality like line in, line out, volume, power, video out, and controlling playback? This can all be done by sending analog signals over certain pins. For very cheap devices a USB controller and the supporting chipset and software is not an option.

Haven't seen any android devices lately have you....
I suggest you broaden your horizons.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[rwise2112]

Yes, and they produce an adapter to make it work.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Desler]

Yes exactly as I said 3 posts above.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[jellomizer]

I found that Enterprise was worse then Voyager. But it is a tossup.

Voyager stupid idea for a plot, but at least is wasn't a copy of Gilligan's Island (I was worried they will have a new fangle way to get home every episode and fail at the list minute).

Enterprise had a good idea of the plot, but they got too much time travel and alternate Universe crap in it. I would much rather see, much lower Warp factors. (Max warp of 3) No Klingon's, more with the Romulan War, and a little more about getting the federation together. I did like the Andorrans.

So we got Bad Plot, and did the best with it. Vs. Good Plot totally messed up.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[DJRumpy]

These are idiot proof, but not maglock. They can connect with either side 'up'. Maglock is not really required for a device this small though since the connectors can actually hold the weight of the phone (at least on the old connector).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Savage-Rabbit]

I completely disagree that a USB controller and supporting chipset isn't an option, a quick pop into Wal-Mart will show you any number of ridiculously cheap USB devices. Hey, forget Wal-mart, here's an $8 USB keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/107-Key-Windows-Keyboard-Black-USB/dp/B0038M3YM8 (do you think the most expensive part of the $8 cost is the USB chipset?)

So, ruling USB back in, the obvious solution is the micro-USB connector.

* Line in is a standard USB protocol, likewise line out (hence those USB headsets you can get.)

* Volume likewise can be implemented by supporting HID - Volume up and down have been standard keystrokes for a while on virtually every multimedia keyboard.

* Power is a standard part of the micro-USB connector, we can charge using it.

* Video out is supported by MHL, which is fast becoming a standard in the Android world.

* And finally, controlling playback is also supported by HID, again Play/Pause/Rewind/Fastforward are part of every modern keyboard, using standardized keystrokes.

FWIIW micro-USB connectors also have an annoying tendency to break the little plastic tab inside the socket which effectively bricks your device.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

So they send analog signals over USB?

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[kidgenius]

I've been using tons of micro-usb connections for years. I've been plugging and unplugging every day, multiple times, across multiple devices. I'd wager I have something on the order of 10000 unplug/plugs across my devices. I have never broken or bent a single micro-usb connector. I know my anecdote is not very good, but if there really was an "annoying tendency to break", I'm sure I would've had it happen and/or heard about it previously. Besides, the inside piece is metal....not plastic as i'm looking at my devices.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[bjwest]

Dude, WTF? It's crap like this that require more and more control over the internet. The free and/or easy dissemination of information is going to end up ruining the profit margins of our OverLoard Coporations.

This shit has to stop NOW! We can't have the masses know just how much they're getting taken for.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

You not only need the USB chipset, you also need hardware to decode video and audio.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[LocalH]

Enterprise had a good idea of the plot, but they got too much time travel and alternate Universe crap in it.

A single two-part episode was too much for you? I suppose you must really hate DS9 then, with five episodes that concerned the mirror universe somehow. Even TOS had an episode that was clearly mirror universe (and another episode where nothing is directly tied to the mirror universe, but that does depict the Defiant's trip to the mirror universe from the perspective of the regular universe).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Skuld-Chan]

They send *digital* signals over usb :). Imagine that?

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

The outer shell is metal, the inner part with five small wires on it is plastic. I've seen that part broken off with the wires still in place - now that's fun to try charging. It will work, but you'll want to throw it out the window after a while.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

... For very cheap devices a USB controller and the supporting chipset and software is not an option.

Cheap and Apple are not allowed to live together in the same sentence. Didnt you get the memo?

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

My last replacement cable for an Apple product was about $4 from a third party off of Amazon. I don't *feel* milked.

Honestly, the hyperbole on this stuff is embarrassing. So they didn't go with USB. Who the fuck cares? If you care, you're living life way incorrectly.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

I somehow it' would be less expensive for the host hardware (radio, alarm clock, etc.) to have a USB host controller chip + decoding hardware to decode the signal and translate it to audio/video + developing (or licensing the software than .... connecting to the appropriate pin and letting the device that already has the hardware do the work.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[AmiMoJo]

No need for annecdotes. The spec says that the micro USB connector must be rated for at least 10,000 insertion/removal cycles.

You can buy the connectors for pennies. There is more chance of the soldering or glue holding the copper layer of the PCB failing than the connector breaking. Similarly the cable will probably fray before the connector gets damaged.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

Let the lawsuits begin for any look-a-like dock connectors!

At least give Samsung some time to copy it!

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

All of those are possible through USB and the USB functionality is often implemented on the southbridge, i.e. Apple could implement it easily on an existing chip such as the A5 itself. The cost of manufacturing the processor would remain the same.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Em Adespoton]

Also Apple, if you could sue over "Locking devices down to only run approved apps", "Mechanisms to prevent modders from replacing your firmware with their own on their own devices" and similar actions, hey, I might even start to like you again!

Yeah they can sue Nintendo, Sony and MS for copying them over this and I won't bat an eye.

...until N, Sony and MS just license the patent and then have a business case for making the license profitable.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIIW micro-USB connectors also have an annoying tendency to break the little plastic tab inside the socket which effectively bricks your device.

So does the Apple dock connector. Of the 4 iPhones I've owned this has happened on 3 of them. I'm rather clumsy, and it happens very easily if your iPhone is charging on a table and you knock it off so that it drops a couple of feet and gets stopped by the cable at an angle.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[BronsCon]

You not only need to license Apple's proprietary connector, you also need hardware to decode video and audio.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[retchdog]

as has been mentioned, micro-usb is rated for 10,000 cycles.

if the product had the usb standard logo and the tab breaks within, say, 10 years, you were sold defective crap and should return it and/or get it fixed for free.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[aztracker1]

I think he may be referring to the plot points surrounding timelines (alternate universe), more so than the two mirror universe episodes (which I found very entertaining, and think they could have changed to entire series to that universe and been more entertaining.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[cheater512]

Wow Apple must actually have a magical connector after all if it doesn't need hardware to decode video and audio!

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[cheater512]

A cheap AVR chip (think Arduino) can do USB pretty easily and you'd have a microcontroller to make the radio/clock/etc... to work to begin with.
No need for computer style electronics with usb hosts and so on.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Master Moose]

And then there was motorolla, who allowed a micro usb for charging, but insisted on having motorolla drivers and software installed on a system before you could charge it from a P.C. You then had a choice beteen the official licenced charger, or plugging it into a p.c. with their software installed. .

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[msauve]

I'm not sure you're correct. The USB spec only allows a powered device to draw 100 mA without enumerating. Most devices don't bother, and will simply try to pull a full 500 mA from a regular USB port, in violation of the spec.

Likewise, the USB charging spec says the data lines must be shorted by no more than 200 Ohms, in order to signal to a device that it may draw up to 1.5 A. Again, many devices (both USB chargers and PDs) ignore it. I've had a couple of Android phones which follow one part but not the other, they'll draw up to 500 mA from either type of port, but insist on the data line short before they'll draw more.

I suspect Motorola was simply following the specification, as everyone should.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Master Moose]

Not understanding half of what you wrote :) All I know is this phone I was given for work came with a standard wall charger and a USB cable. The wall charger worked. The USB cable when attached to a generic USB wall charger would not.

  Also when attached to a P.C. via USB it would not charge. I thought it was a bung USB cable, so I tried switching them with ones from other devices.. Still no luck. Until I did some googling.. .

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_Motorola_Razr_be_charged_through_a_USB_port
http://www.noheat.com/2007/01/31/charge-motorola-razr-with-standard-usb-cable-from-pc/
http://www.flishfun.com/blog/technology/charge-your-razr-via-usb/

So if they are sticking to standard or not, I can not answer, but they are sticking to inconvenience by not just working out of the box like most other USB devices

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[c 0xFF]

And on the other hand, you have an Apple proprietary connector that carries its own premium in cost. And USB chips are often present anyway for one reason or another (included in your microcontroller, for example).

It's likely that a low-end device would be cheaper to make for an Apple accessory, but in everything else you probably would never notice the price difference.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[msauve]

"they are sticking to inconvenience by not just working out of the box like most other USB devices"

You're misplacing the blame. It's probably the generic "USB" charger which wasn't following specs and causing problems. The RAZR, as I recall, didn't have any standard USB modes (it wouldn't act like a disc drive, etc.). Therefore, in order for it to talk to a PC, the PC needed a driver. Without talking to the PC, a device isn't allowed to draw more than a trickle of power.

But, some manufacturers tend to play loose with the rules, which may make some things work, but ends up breaking other things.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

No you don't need hardware to decode it, Unless you think a speaker connected to an amplifier connected to an analog line out is "decoding" audio......

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Obfuscant]

So they send analog signals over USB?

One of my previous cellphones (a Motorola) used the USB connection for a headset that was analog. You could even buy adapters. So yes, analog over the USB connection.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

So still instead of using a simple connect line out pin to speaker you have a full USB host controller and the supporting software and the hardware that decodes the digital audio,,,

And some how this is cheaper than connecting an analog line out and sending simple electrical signals to the correct pin?

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[BronsCon]

It's possible to push analog audio over USB (think iPod Nano). Every Android phone I have ever owned does this; you don't think there's actually a decoder in the car dock they include with the Atrix HD, do you? The dock I bought for my Atrix HD includes a cable with a 3.5mm pigtail for analog out, no electronics in that cable, it's wired to the data pins and plug shield, according to my continuity tester, and you get analog output jsut by plugging it into the phone (with or without the dock). The car dock for my HTC One X doesn't even have a connector of its own ,so nowhere to hide electronics there, either; the cable snaps into the dock and the phone slides directly into that. That also provides analog audio over USB.

The point I was trying to make is simple. If you need decoding hardware to do it over USB, you need the same hardware over the dock connector's usb pins; if you don't need decoding hardware, it's because you have analog output, which, well, every Android phone I've ever used can provide over the USB connector. In fact, it's possible to provide analog video over the very same, as well as HDMI audio and video. Admittedly, you can't use these all at once; though if your device is capable of handling all of these at once, it's capable of using the MHL protocol, which provides for USB data, DHMI audio and video, and power, simultaneously, over the 5 pins present in the micro USB connector. At that level of device, analog outputs aren't even wanted. But, of course, they can be (and have been) implemented, and are there if you want them. Over USB. Right now.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple won't sue MS, they've got a 'financial agreement' not to sue each other. Remember several years back when Apple was in a deep money hole and it was none other than MS that coughed up some bucks to stabilize Apple's cash flow issues? Ever since then the relationship between the two has had a different tone. While Apple is firing off lawsuits at almost every OEM for just about anything their obscenely well funded legal team has time to file, Apple won't being suing MS over the Surface -- supposedly MS has already paid Apple for 'rights' on it, what used to be referred to as 'extortion'.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Master Moose]

Consider myself somewhat more educated than before. .

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[jrumney]

I somehow it' would be less expensive for the host hardware (radio, alarm clock, etc.) to have a USB host controller chip + decoding hardware to decode the signal and translate it to audio/video + developing (or licensing the software than .... connecting to the appropriate pin and letting the device that already has the hardware do the work.

Only because Bose's patent extortion for "an amplified speaker with digital input" is more expensive than Apple's license fee for their patented connector.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[jrumney]

But the RAZR has enumerated, the PC just doesn't have any drivers for any of the protocols it supports. At that point, it would still be entirely within the standard to ramp up to 500mA (ramp up, because it needs to allow for unpowered hubs with other devices connected, in which case the total current available to it may be less than the 500mA the PC port can provide).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[c.r.o.c.o]

You are absolutely correct about the micro-usb connector itself, and my experience with many devices confirms your anecdotal evidence. But the connector is attached to a PCB which is housed in a device. If THAT implementation sucks, then you end up with a micro-usb cable with a micro-usb connector attached to it yet completely detached from the PCB which is housed in the device.

Read this thread, or at least look at the number of replies from people who had an issue:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37107

Basically the Nokia N900 had a micro-usb connector surface mounted to the PCB without any additional support. Thousands of people had their connector break off just through regular use, let alone abuse like dropping the phone, inserting the cable at an angle, etc. And once the connector broke off, it would render the phone almost useless, short of resorting to external chargers, etc. While the N900 is not worth much today, a couple of years ago it was a $700 phone that Nokia refused to fix at first, claiming the port broke off due to abuse.

So there you go. You've heard of at least one case where micro-usb had an annoying tendency to break.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[zieroh]

I completely disagree that a USB controller and supporting chipset isn't an option, a quick pop into Wal-Mart will show you any number of ridiculously cheap USB devices.

You can disagree all you want. I'll bet you aren't in the device business, though.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[zieroh]

That's a pretty clear violation of the USB spec. Just because Android does it doesn't make it a good practice.

The iPod Nano is the reverse -- they co-opted the headphone jack to speak USB. I realize that you probably don't recognize the difference between these two ideas, but to some people the distinction matters.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[BronsCon]

As long as, when connected to another USB device, it's speaking USB, the spec is not being violated. I think you might want to read up a bit.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Plumpaquatsch]

Please! Please! If Apple sued other manufacturers over violating their "Milk the customer by using a proprietary dock incompatible with everything else" patent, then

Samsung would again be in a lot of trouble. The difference being of course is that Apple's "proprietary dock incompatible with everything else" is compatible with thousands of peripherals (including cars).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[FatLittleMonkey]

and think they could have changed to entire series to that universe and been more entertaining.

Isn't that true for every ST series? (Hell, most SF series.)

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Plumpaquatsch]

Stop saying how USB could be used for all those things - show us one mobile device that actually uses USB for at least two of those.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[DarwinSurvivor]

I don't see how that has ANYTHING to do with the fact that it was USB. If a company is going to surface-mount an external connector, it's going to break unless it's magnet-held contact-only (like the mac charging cables).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[DarwinSurvivor]

n900

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[DarwinSurvivor]

There's a big difference between "can hold the weight of a device" and "can stop a device falling at an angle".

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Plumpaquatsch]

So they send analog signals over USB?

One of my previous cellphones (a Motorola) used the USB connection for a headset that was analog. You could even buy adapters. So yes, analog over the USB connection.

You mean this thing? "This item is NOT compatible with ANY LG or SAMSUNG Phones! Will ONLY work with Motorola Micro-USB Phones!" - I smell a non-standard USB.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Plumpaquatsch]

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8650967/audio-over-micro-usb-android-open-accessory

The Android Open Accessory library provides a basic communication channel with devices via USB. What you do with it is up to you.

(It doesn't have any inherent support for audio, and you can't route the system audio over it. But you could write code which outputs a custom audio channel from your app.)

Keep in mind that the Open Accessory library uses a custom protocol, so won't work with things such as a standard USB DAC.

(For that, you'd want to use the USB Host mode APIs: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/usb/host.html. The same caveats about not being able to route the system audio still apply.)

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Plumpaquatsch]

n900

Does what exactly? Searching Google doesn't show any hint of it doing audio over USB (neither analog nor digital for that matter) for example.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

And it has nothing to do with the fact that "connecting an audio line out pin to an amplifier to a speaker" is something that any decent tinkerer could do 40 years ago......

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[jellomizer]

Not the Mirror Universe Episode. But starting from Episode 1.
Bad Guys who have been genetically manipulated from a dude in the future to change history.
Good guy from the future poses as a lowly crewman aboard Enterprise to protect his own timeline.
A Temporal Cold War From Bad Guys Who can only give information to the past vs. the Good Guys who can actually go back and forth threw time.
An entire season based on an attack from an Aliens from future dude who predicted bad news, that never really happened on base cannon episodes (and Future Good Guy Dude said it never happened)

Time travel episodes of Star Trek are popular. However when you base a series on it, and place it 80 years before time travel was discovered, really makes it too unbelievable.

Perhaps it would had been a better story in a different Universe where there is some sort of devices that Leaps people threw time using Quantum Technology. However our Hero, got stuck and needs to change the future for the better. He can have a Wise Cracking Admiral who is his best friend and appear to him as a hologram that only he can see, that will help direct him to figure out if he had changed the future or not. Oh we can have a punchline at the end of the episode where he jumps into a different body every time and he goes "Oh, Boy!"

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[jrumney]

I think you'll find it easier to find a DAC and a few resistors and capacitors at your local tinkerers shop than an iPod connector.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Karlt1]

http://www.furiant.org/forum/entry.php?26-DIY-How-to-make-an-iPod-Line-Out-Dock-(with-photos)

Now how do I make my own USB host controller and program it to work?

If it were so easy, and there is a purported 1 million Android devices activated per day, then why can I go into Walmart and find a dozen or so radios etc with iPod connectors but none that are compatible with the "non-proprietary" micro-usb plug? Why is that every "solution" involved proprietary docks that only work with a particular Android phone?

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[omnichad]

Which does make you wonder why they didn't just go for a magsafe-style plug on the new iPhone/iPod.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[ncc74656]

They send *digital* signals over usb :). Imagine that?

Good luck feeding that digital signal to the composite input jack on the TV in your hotel room. Hope you like whatever "reality"-TV tripe is on the air, or that you have other plans for your evening that don't involve the TV.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[CAIMLAS]

It'll never happen. Do you realize how much of Apple's profits come from their (severely) over-priced iProduct-specific accessories?

They'd never give their customers that choice, because that choice will remove lock-in. Whatever it is, it's going to be patent encumbered and licensed to anyone who wants to make a product for their iAccessory.

This will, IMO, back fire. Apple is losing market share; why would a company pay a massive licensing fee to have the 'right' to make a non-standard accessory for a has-been novelty?

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[CAIMLAS]

Bullshit. I've never seen or heard of this happening, not on XDA (where I'll troll), not from any of my friends.

My son has faithfully been using my old HTC HD2 for the past year now. The phone gets some fairly severe abuse, and was fairly heavily abused by me as well. It would be dead right now from blunt trauma a dozen times if it wasn't for the Otterbox. He will drain the battery at least twice a day. Not a single problem.

What I have done, is damaged cables by picking up the phone too forcefully and/or dropping the phone on the connector. Woo, I'll just pull another $2 cable from the drawer and use that.

Speaking of frail connetors, look at Apple's current connectors, or any of the other 'legacy' phone connectors. Those are seriously frail with those small, exposed pins (which will rip out if the device is hanked). I've seen a number of iPhones with their connectors broken off inside. (The phones were otherwise destroyed by the drops, so it didn't really matter, but the point stands that the connectors are weak.)

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[CAIMLAS]

Um, but what if I want computer-like functionality in my smartphone?

Yeah, I'll take USB host, thanks. I like being able to plug in wired ethernet adapters, mice, and keyboards into my phone as necessary.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Em Adespoton]

Actually, that agreement expired sometime around 2003 IIRC. Part of the agreement was to do with bundling Internet Explorer -- Apple came out with Safari shortly after the agreement expired.

From Wikipedia:

Until 1997, Apple Macintosh computers were shipped with the Netscape Navigator and Cyberdog web browsers only. Internet Explorer for Mac was later included as the default web browser for Mac OS 8.1 and onwards,[5] as part of a five year agreement between Apple and Microsoft. During that time, Microsoft released three major versions of Internet Explorer for Mac that were bundled with Mac OS 8 and Mac OS 9, though Apple continued to include Netscape Navigator as an alternative. Microsoft ultimately released a Mac OS X edition of Internet Explorer for Mac, which was included as the default browser in all Mac OS X releases from Mac OS X DP4[6] up to and including Mac OS X v10.2.[7] On January 7, 2003, at Macworld San Francisco, Steve Jobs announced that Apple had developed their own web browser, called Safari. It was based on Apple's internal fork of the KHTML rendering engine, called WebKit.[8]

The relationship between Apple and Microsoft changed quite significantly in 2003. However, you're right that they've since decided that cross-licensing their patents is much simpler than lawsuits.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[GuB-42]

- Because it is too big.
- Because it is more expensive
- Magnets are not without problems. I often carry my phone next to my credit card and the magnets in the mag-safe port are strong enough to erase the magnetic strip.
- A phone (or ipod nano !) is much lighter than a laptop. The benefit of having a connector that snaps off when pulled accidentally is greatly reduced. Either the connector will be too weak to hold well in normal situations or it wont prevent the device from falling.

They just need to support the connector properly and it won't break. Because it contains no moving parts, the micro-usb connector can be made pretty sturdy.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[DarwinSurvivor]

Then put the magnet on the cable side. Not only does this make the phone safer, it moves the cost-burden of the magnets to the 3rd party accessory suppliers (thus not increasing Apple's cost).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[DarwinSurvivor]

Well, I know for a fact it accepts HID input (there's 2 points right there) as well as charging over USB (as does pretty much EVERY Android phone as well).

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Anonymous Coward]

It's possible to push analog audio over USB (think iPod Nano).

No, it's not. Not if the USB port is actually functioning as USB at the time.

Every Android phone I have ever owned does this; you don't think there's actually a decoder in the car dock they include with the Atrix HD, do you? The dock I bought for my Atrix HD includes a cable with a 3.5mm pigtail for analog out, no electronics in that cable, it's wired to the data pins and plug shield, according to my continuity tester, and you get analog output jsut by plugging it into the phone (with or without the dock).

You do not seem to realize what this actually means. It does not mean that USB supports analog audio. It means the Atrix HD design engineers included a circuit to detect (via some proprietary hack) when a custom analog audio dock device or cable is plugged in. If so, the Atrix disconnects its USB driver and receiver circuits from the port, and connects an analog out circuit instead.

The point I was trying to make is simple. If you need decoding hardware to do it over USB, you need the same hardware over the dock connector's usb pins;

You said: "You not only need to license Apple's proprietary connector, you also need hardware to decode video and audio." That is completely wrong. Apple's proprietary 30-pin dock connector has dedicated pins for analog audio output. Why would you need to 'decode' the signal sent on those pins? All you need is an analog amplifier circuit.

if you don't need decoding hardware, it's because you have analog output, which, well, every Android phone I've ever used can provide over the USB connector. In fact, it's possible to provide analog video over the very same, as well as HDMI audio and video. Admittedly, you can't use these all at once; though if your device is capable of handling all of these at once, it's capable of using the MHL protocol, which provides for USB data, DHMI audio and video, and power, simultaneously, over the 5 pins present in the micro USB connector.

You do not know what you're talking about.

MHL is a standard for transmitting digital audio and video from a phone (or similar mobile device) to a TV (or other ouput device). It does not handle USB data, or HDMI. It doesn't even specify a standard connector. So far, most have chosen to implement MHL by having it take over the 3 non-power pins of a micro USB connector, using mode switching hacks similar to what I described above. However, there is nothing in the MHL spec which requires it to piggyback on a USB connector that way. Some phone designers have chosen to route MHL signals out through a proprietary connector because they want to offer simultaneous MHL and USB.

Also, despite popular mythology, MHL isn't actually a form of HDMI. MHL-to-HDMI adapters are active translator devices, not passive cables. Here's an example chip:

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?pid=168

The one thing most MHL-on-USB-connector phones can do simultaneously is to accept charge power while transmitting MHL data. This is mostly because nobody is insane enough to repurpose the USB power and ground pins when switching alternate functions through the USB connector. (Well, maybe I shouldn't say "nobody", there's always some crazy thing out there, but the possible failure modes of the two ends being out of sync are much, much worse when one end can source as much as 2 amps at 5V.)

At that level of device, analog outputs aren't even wanted. But, of course, they can be (and have been) implemented, and are there if you want them. Over USB. Right now.

They are there if and only if you don't mind losing USB functionality. The signals may pass through a USB connector, but that is not the same as actually being USB.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[Plumpaquatsch]

Okay, you win. Now three things. No, wait: show me first that you can actually control the playback of media with a bog-standard keyboard as was claimed, because just typing wasn't what was claimed.

Re:Let the lawsuits begin..

[BronsCon]

All that typing and you still missed the point. If you want an analog output, it can be provided over a USB connector. If you want data, it can still be provided over a USB connector. If your device wants both, well, then it's capable of handling the data connection and can pull digital audio and/or video through that. I somehow get the feeling you're trying to use my wording "over USB" to your advantage when I clearly was referring to the connector, not the protocol.

I may have been confused about exactly how MHL works, but that's a far cry from not knowing what I'm talking about. The mere fact that everything I talked about does, in fact, exist and work (and you pinned the "proprietary hack" on Motorola, though the iPod Nano predates the Atrix by several years and does the exact same thing, but in reverse) would indicate that I do, in fact, know what I'm talking about. Having designed and implemented similar (albeit much less complex) signal-selection techniques puts "what I'm talking about" squarely into "I do know" category.

Thanks for playing.

Daily mail

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck linking to this tabloid trash.

More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Use standard USB like everyone else.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[GameboyRMH]

Hush, don't you know that the slight functionality advantage of these stupid-ass proprietary connectors makes it totally worth it vs. having to plug in a second cable sometimes? Plus so many accessories on the market use the Apple connector that hasn't changed in yea...oh wait...

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's iPod/iPhone connector was one of the advantages they had over everyone else because that connector makes a reliable connection every time, unlike flimsy Micro USB connectors. The connectors on Micro USB cables were designed to be fragile to avoid damaging devices and often wear to the point of being useless in a matter of months. So much for not having to buy new cables for every phone, I have to buy new cables every 6 months. I'm all for having an industry standard, but not if the standard sucks.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[GameboyRMH]

You're doing something seriously wrong. The microUSB connectors for my N900 are at least 2 years old and still going strong, and it works on the first attempt to plug in pretty much every time.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[6ULDV8]

Accessories like my car.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[tgd]

Use standard USB like everyone else.

Everyone else doesn't use standard USB. Samsung, for example, has a dock-like connector, too. Why? For the same reason so many digital cameras have proprietary USB connectors -- you have other signals you need to provide. The dock connector has line level audio, video output, and a bunch of other things like that.

For a simple charge-and-sync application, USB is fine, but there are no standard formats that include that PLUS video, audio, serial, etc.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[GameboyRMH]

And I thought it was bad when you had obsolete tech stuck in your computer case...

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

You're doing something seriously wrong.

Yeah, I'm using a device with a Micro USB connector. Every Micro USB Device I have ever used has developed problems due to cable wear. It's not a large sample, but a Blackberry, two Droids, and a USB 3.0 hard drive (which was unreliable straight out of the box with the included cable, just tapping the cable would cause it to lose the connection) have all been problematic for me. In the case of the phones, a fresh cable fixes the problem (temporarily), so the cables are wearing down to being useless in about 200-300 connect-disconnect cycles. The problem is that the cables do not lock in securely, resulting in weak connections and accelerated wear.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's iPod/iPhone connector was one of the advantages they had over everyone else because that connector makes a reliable connection every time, unlike flimsy Micro USB connectors. The connectors on Micro USB cables were designed to be fragile to avoid damaging devices and often wear to the point of being useless in a matter of months. So much for not having to buy new cables for every phone, I have to buy new cables every 6 months. I'm all for having an industry standard, but not if the standard sucks.

If this really is your experience and not another mythical tale from the Apple side, you are doing something seriously wrong or buying cables the wrong place. I have had multiple micro-USB gadgets, including phones, for years without experiencing anything remotely like what you are describing. Never even heard anything like it among all co-workers and friends using micro usb. The connector makes reliable connection every time. No cable or connector has ever shown any wear to speak of, and that is measured in years of use. To get useless in months.., sounds, well, like something is very off . The only cables I've seen damaged recently is a friends iPad connector cable, which have developed damage showing the inside wires right after the plug ends.

Using the same cable and the same power adapter across multiple gadgets is so useful that I would really, really try hard to avoid bying a device with a proprietary connector.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like another car manufacturer that shouldn't have drank so much of the Apple Kool-Aid.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[GameboyRMH]

We've never had any such problem with any of the Blackberries in my office, and I've been unplugging and plugging in my N900 about twice a day for the last 2+ years, no problems.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Jeremy Erwin]

I agree. If you want HDMI out, use an AppleTV.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[shutdown -p now]

For a simple charge-and-sync application, USB is fine, but there are no standard formats that include that PLUS video, audio, serial, etc.

For video & audio, there is MHL. Most high-end Android phones these days seem to support it via their micro-USB slot.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

The Blackberry was fine for a little over a year, then one night the battery ran down completely while plugged into the charger. I kept an eye on it after that and noticed that sometimes it would say that it was charging, but the power level would drop. After that, I had to check it periodically to make sure it was really charging. I thought it was just a crappy phone, but then about 6 months after getting a Droid I couldn't get a stable charging connection. At least the Droids have a light next to the connector that (usually) only comes on when there's a charging connection, so I didn't have to wait a few minutes to see if it was charging. I tried all of my Blackberry's cables and chargers, only to get the same results within a few days. Carefully propping up the connector in just the right position and being careful to not touch anything or make any sudden movements worked for long enough to get a shipment of fresh cables, which worked reliably.

For a while. Inevitably, every cable I used, regardless of brand, would fail. Cables lasted the longest (about a full year) at my desk at work, where the phone would usually sit untouched for most of the day. The cable at home had a little bit more movement to deal with, so that would only be good for 6-8 months. And in the car, well, I don't count on ever being able to charge my phone in a car, there's just too much movement to keep a cable working for very long, maybe 3 months of regular use at most. The best part of this though is the 4-second "Disconnected: Unplug your charger from the outlet to conserve energy" banner that pops up every time a power connection is lost. The banner overlays anything on the screen and can't be dismissed, plus whoever coded it set it to add a banner call to the queue even if the banner was being displayed. A 15 minute trip with a flaky cable could result in an hour or more of this banner flashing on and off. The only way to get rid of it is to shut off the phone and turn it back on. Many things about the Android OS irritate me, but this may be the worst.

I'm through with Micro USB. I never had this problem with Mini USB devices and I never had this problem with Apple devices. I don't buy gadgets frequently enough to have everything using the same connector, so switching from Micro USB to an Apple connector, new or old, makes no difference to me in terms of convenience. The savings in frustration will be well worth it.

And now watch the new Apple connector turn out to be just as flimsy as Micro USB...

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[UnknowingFool]

Please educate yourself why Apple uses a 30 pin connector. The gist is when Apple came up with the connector almost a decade ago, they needed enough pins for future uses. The second reason is that using USB requires some sort of computing and drivers. If you are a manufacturer of car radios, do you want the signals to go through a computer or direct (left analog channel, right analog). Apple appears to be dropping 30 pins because they are dropping FireWire and older connections like S-Video which won't be needed for the future. In the 10 years since, if Apple had kept changing the connector to accommodate HDMI, DVI, etc, people would have complained.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Skuld-Chan]

My Samsung phone uses a micro-usb connector. Its only 6 months old, but I'm pretty sure other much older samsung phones use them too.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Quiet_Desperation]

Why? Everyone repeats this mantra like robots. There's plenty of cheap third party cables for the existing connector, there will be for the new one. Anyone sitting around fretting over this has way too much free time.

Unless you sat in on the design reviews and tradeoff meetings, you have no idea what led to the decision. Off the shelf versus custom is a very common tradespace in engineering, and off the shelf is not the automatic slam dunk people outside hardware engineering think it is.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I like plugging my phone directly into an HDMI port without having to go through some powered device first. On the other hand, my HP Touchpad uses a USB cable and I hate it. Plugging it in is like threading a needle and it feels like it's just this close to breaking. Both Apple's and Samsung's connectors just snap right in.

Apple, if you really are going to make it magsafe and not reliant on which way is up on the connector, please do it and ignore these knee-jerk responses.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I don't carry an AppleTV around. I have, however, plugged my iPhone into the TV at a hotel in order to watch some stuff. It's just one little cable that sits in my bag and doesn't even require power. The wifi at that hotel was pretty shitty, I'm not sure I could have gotten the phone talking to an Apple TV in ad-hoc mode... I certainly would not have fun trying to set that up.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

This. I have a box of micro USB cables from all the devices I've bought, gotten tired of, and discarded or given away (to others who didn't need that cables, having plenty of their own) over the last 4 years. Never a failed cable or connector, and often times I'll have my phone fall off the table and end up setting my laptop on it at night because i have the lights off and can't see where everything is... in the morning i grab the cable and pull the phone out from under the laptop... on average twice a week. Again, never had a failed connector or cable. Then again, every mini USB device I've used has been plagued with failing connectors (the outer rim loosens up and doesn't hold the cable any longer), with the sole exception of the PS3 Sixaxis controller.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

Wait, you mean the cable that connects my iPod to my car stereo, the same one that connects it to the charger and my computer, the one with a 30pin on one side and USB on the other, provides analog audio over the USB pins? Explain how a normal USB connector can't do this, since that's what the one of the connectors on the cable, as well as the connector on my stereo just so happen to be. In fact, my Motorola Atrix puts out analog audio when plugged into the car dock (the cable for it functions without the dock, there are no funky electronics involved, just a USB cable with a 3.5mm pigtail connected to the data pins and grounded to the plug shield). On that phone, there's a separate micro-HDMI connector for video, but on my HTC One X, the 5-pin micro usb can handle data, analog audio (as in the case of my Atrix), and HDMI. Using the same voodoo that tell the connector which type of output to provide, it could also be made to handle analog video input and output, as well as analog audio input. Again, no need for anything more than 5 pins unless you want to do all of this at once, in which case your device will have the processing power to handle the USB data, so you just use that; or you use MHL, which is what these phones use for HDMI-over-USB, which includes power and data on top of audio and video, over 5 pins.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

No, they really don't.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[c 0xFF]

What I love are the cases with bluetooth keyboards for the iPad. Every one I've seen has a micro-USB plug for charging.

And since you don't recharge the keyboard very often, finding that second cable might be a problem, especially if the battery dies while on a business trip. I can just imagine an iPad user bumming a micro-USB charger from an Android user to charge their accessory.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[UnknowingFool]

So tell me what kind of time machine that Apple could have used in 2001 when the iPod was released to adopt the MHL standard which was not proposed until 2008 and not released as a specification until 2010z

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[MBCook]

It doesn't provide it over USB, it's provided over other pins on the cable. The 30 pin dock connector provides power (3.3v, 5v, and 12v during the FireWire days), stereo audio out, stereo audio in, composite video out, s-video out, serial (used for accessories), a pin to determine which mode to use or what the accessory is, FireWire, and USB.

Remember that connector came from 2003 or so, when having line level out was much cheaper than just expecting people to transfer digital audio. It's primary purpose was to allow people to use either USB or FireWire in one connector so they wouldn't have to put both connectors on the phone.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

MHL is USB data and an HDMI-compliant *DIGITAL* audio/video stream over a 5-pin connector. This is different from the analog audio over USB I *also* mentioned, which more closely fits the use-case for the 30 pin connector. But go ahead and ignore that if it helps you think you hold a valid position.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[mattack2]

and it works on the first attempt to plug in pretty much every time.

Wow, such a ringing endorsement!

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[UnknowingFool]

Again, when Apple created the 30 pin connector in 2001, how could they possibly adopt a standard ( like HDMI which didn't start development until 2002) that existed only in the future. Excuse me but my reality is based on facts grounded in linear time.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

Maybe I'm missing something, but we're talking about the cable that's USB on one side and 30pin on the other. Do the pins magically change configuration depending on whether it's plugged in to my computer (to provide USB data) or stereo (to provide analog audio)? I don't think they do. Same cable, works both places, just like my Atrix and One X (the Atrix even make this obvious by the cable having a 3.5mm pigtail coming off the cable that comes with the car dock, which also has no center [data pin] contacts present on its full size USB end). These devices put out analog audio *AND* digital data over the same pins, based solely on what's plugged in to the other end; there's no reason the iPod can't (and evidence suggests that is can and does).

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

Again, analog audio output over USB is *NOT* MHL, nor does it have jack-all to do with HDMI. They could have done this back in 2001; hell, they could have done it in 1994, but they didn't have a device to use it on. It's not a standard, in any way, shape, or form, it's just something that a lot of other manufacturers figured out how to do without breaking the USB standard as it currently exists. Further, this isn't about whether the 30 pin connector was needed back then (though it wasn't), it's about whether the 19 pin connector is needed now and, with the ability to push analot audio and video over USB, or go digital and push them alongside USB data (that's MHL, see the difference yet? do you understand that there *IS* a difference?), the 19 pin connector is certainly not needed now.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Midnight Thunder]

What made it interesting is the fact it also included audio lines, making it easy to add to home audio equipment.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[UnknowingFool]

So let me get this straight? Apple in 2001 used FireWire not USB for the iPod. But for their connector they used 30 pins. Most of the pins were unused but there were left open for future use (like switching from FireWire to USB). But according to you they should have used USB even though video even analog over USB didn't exist. Even though USB 1.0 was dog slow and not suitable for transfers of this sort until 2.0 (release in 2000 but not adopted until Dec 2001). USB itself wasn't released an official spec until 1.0 in 1996 but according to you Apple could have still used it in 1994. Sure, linear time is on your side.

Could Apple have implemented foreseen that USB would be the standard? USB now might be able to fill that gap but 12 years ago, it wasn't a guarantee. Look at all the other cabling standards that have been used to overcome USB's shortcomings: FireWire, eSATA, Thunderbolt. Apple could have done all of this, but no way it would have been to spec as the spec did not specify for uses like this. So then Apple would be violating a standard and people like you would give them grief about it.

Can they adopt the 11 pin MHL spec now? Yes. The factor that may hold them back is backwards compatibility. If the rumors are true the 19 pin coming out is mostly backwards compatible (dropping FireWire and a few other things). So an adapter would be necessary. 11 pin MHL probably will not be very compatible. What would happen if they used 11 pin MHL? The nerd rage of how Apple is raking in gads of money by forcing everyone to buy all new cables would be deafening.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[GameboyRMH]

I'll admit, maybe once or twice a month I'll plug it into charge and it doesn't register, but I think it might be a software problem, it only seems to happen with the AC charger.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[jrumney]

I think the GP is referring to Samsung's tablets. They do have a proprietary connector.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, you mean the cable that connects my iPod to my car stereo, the same one that connects it to the charger and my computer, the one with a 30pin on one side and USB on the other, provides analog audio over the USB pins?

No, it is digital audio.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Dan541]

But then you can't sell the special cables.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Plumpaquatsch]

What I love are the cases with bluetooth keyboards for the iPad. Every one I've seen has a micro-USB plug for charging.

And since you don't recharge the keyboard very often, finding that second cable might be a problem, especially if the battery dies while on a business trip. I can just imagine an iPad user bumming a micro-USB charger from an Android user to charge their accessory.

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD099ZM/A

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple's iPod/iPhone connector was one of the advantages they had over everyone else because that connector makes a reliable connection every time, unlike flimsy Micro USB connectors. The connectors on Micro USB cables were designed to be fragile to avoid damaging devices and often wear to the point of being useless in a matter of months. So much for not having to buy new cables for every phone, I have to buy new cables every 6 months. I'm all for having an industry standard, but not if the standard sucks.

Back when Apple introduced the Dock Connector, Micro USB didn't exist yet. You couldn't even charge over USB, because the standards to push more power over USB weren't done yet.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Plumpaquatsch]

For a simple charge-and-sync application, USB is fine, but there are no standard formats that include that PLUS video, audio, serial, etc.

For video & audio, there is MHL. Most high-end Android phones these days seem to support it via their micro-USB slot.

Mobile High-Definition Link (MHL) is a proposed industry standard

There have been 2 connectors used on phones so far:
5-pin MHL-USB Connector - description translates to not-USB over a USB cable, disabling any USB functionality
11-pin MHL-USB Connector - proprietary Samsung connector, using MHL and USB at the same time - but not using an actual USB connector on the phone.

And there's almost a dozen peripherals supporting this.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Plumpaquatsch]

MHL is USB data and an HDMI-compliant *DIGITAL* audio/video stream over a 5-pin connector.

No it isn't. It's something non-USB using USB ports. USB.org has no info on MHL. Only Samsung can do USB data at the same time as MHL - and they use a non-standard connector.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Plumpaquatsch]

So let me get this straight? Apple in 2001 used FireWire not USB for the iPod. But for their connector they used 30 pins. Most of the pins were unused but there were left open for future use (like switching from FireWire to USB).

Actually the first two generations of iPod only had a Firewire port (and headphone jack). From the third generation on that was replaced by the Dock connector which could be connected to both Firewire and USB cables. But even then you couldn't charge over USB, because it didn't supply enough power yet.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[Plumpaquatsch]

Yes they really do.

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[CAIMLAS]

Wow, that's going to be really embarassing for whoever owns it in 5 to 10 years, if they're able to identify what it's used for still. They actually put iPod connectors in cars? I understand USB, because it's a pretty awesome connector type and is very versatile, but an iProduct connector?

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[cheekyboy]

Prereleases
The USB standard evolved through several versions before its official release in 1995:
USB 0.7: Released in November 1994.

"Could Apple have implemented foreseen that USB would be the standard? "

The point of USB was to make it a standard!!!!

"The goal was to make it fundamentally easier to connect external devices to PCs by replacing the multitude of connectors at the back of PCs, addressing the usability issues of existing interfaces, and simplifying software configuration of all devices connected to USB, as well as permitting greater data rates for external devices." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus

Re:More proprietary apple shit

[BronsCon]

I think that may have been my point.

Wow

[crazyjj]

You know you're big when a new connector for one of your devices is front page news on every website.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

> You know you're big when a new connector for one of your devices is front page news on every website.

No, you know that people have twisted fandom into religion when it's on the front page of every website.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you've pissed off a lot of people by continually changing connectors when a new connector for one of your devices is front page news on every website.
tftfy.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you're bigconnector for one of your devices is front page news on every website.

Giggity

Re:Wow

[CAIMLAS]

You know you've got a good gorilla marketing department when a new connector for one of your devices is front page news on every website.

Fixed it for you.

Apple is a small fish with a high profit margin and a big marketing department.

Just use micro USB already!

[PrescriptionWarning]

Its really just bad that they insist on not moving to micro USB like basically all other phones manufacturers have. Requiring people to buy new sets of chargers, cables, accessories, docks for a new product just shouldn't be necessary with what is already available.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Krojack]

I'm guessing that's the point of them redoing it on the iPhone 5. They figured it's time people go out and buy new cables and chargers and stop using the ones they got with the original iPhone.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[joelsanda]

Requiring people to buy new sets of chargers, cables, accessories, docks for a new product just shouldn't be necessary with what is already available.

The don't require anyone to buy anything else. The box comes with a USB charging cable and why do you need a dock? It can sync wirelessly now.It would be nice if they included the travelling charger in the box, but anyone who reads the description will know that's not included.

If people rush out and spend half again as much on accessories that's their choice. A +10 Shirt of Protection from Marketing is the only thing that will save them.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Colonel Korn]

Its really just bad that they insist on not moving to micro USB like basically all other phones manufacturers have. Requiring people to buy new sets of chargers, cables, accessories, docks for a new product just shouldn't be necessary with what is already available.

Agreed in principle, but I'd prefer mini USB - I was visiting my extended family recently and we got to talking about broken cables and we've seen about 15 out of the 30 micro USB connectors we've collectively owned, usually supplied along with Kindles or phones, fail within the first year of normal use. None of us had ever seen a mini USB connecter fail in a larger sample size. Micro was supposedly designed for more plug/unplug cycles, but it seems like it's solidly failed to hit its goals.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's dock connector supports some signals that aren't directly available on USB (like video out and audio in/out). These could possibly be handled over USB by an adapter of some sort, but the current connector allows for some cheap and easy accessories.

It is unfortunate that existing accessories don't work, but that happens some times. Apple has been using the existing design for a long time.

Supporting an additional micro USB would be OK, but they'd have to find room for it.

This should be a non-story.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[squiggleslash]

Speaking for myself, I've never wanted to carry around anything but the device itself. Being able to have a cheap, almost disposable, charger at work that works with all my devices is the way to go.

No, you don't have to be able to charge the iPhone at work - although I believe one of the major reasons they're suing Samsung is that the Galaxy Nexus violates their "Ridiculously poor battery life" patent - but I'm inclined to think most do, and most don't want to carry around their only USB cable everywhere they go to do it.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[rwise2112]

Apple's dock connector supports some signals that aren't directly available on USB (like video out and audio in/out)

Other manufacturers can get a micro-USB port to also double as a HDMI output.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[squiggleslash]

MHL provides HDMI compatible output over the connector used for microUSB (and can co-exist with USB), and USB itself includes protocols for audio in/out. MHL+USB over micro-B is becoming standard in the Android world. There's no reason to eschew microUSB for these functions.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, by requiring an adapter.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[joelsanda]

Well, haven't all the iOS devices had that? It's a USB cable that plugs into a USB port. The only time that nails me is when I

1. Forget to charge overnight
2. Travel without a PC

But I have only the iPhone, so perhaps the issue of multiple devices and cables doesn't haunt me.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[squiggleslash]

No, just the right cable (unless you consider every cable an "adapter" of some sort, but I suspect not as that would make a micro-USB cable an adapter too)

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Karlt1]

How do you get audio line in and line out from USB? How do you get video signals?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, just use the most flimsy and unreliable connector out there so people will only be required to buy new cables and chargers every year or so when the cables fail instead of whenever Apple comes out with a new connector. Makes sense to me. Can you imagine the outrage when people can't get their iPhones to charge because of cable failure after cable failure? Micro USB is a failed design, Apple would do well to stay away from it.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd need to buy new chargers, cables, and accessories if they switched to micro USB.

If the leaked parts are for real, and it's this thing: http://itsmorereal.tumblr.com/post/29480903669/the-foolproof-dock-connector

Then it will function much better than micro USB.

Aren't you buying new cables anyway when everything switches to Micro USB3?

Best case scenario (unlikely, I realize), this is a custom connector for USB3, and they'll let anyone use it. Of course, if it really is liquidmetal, then they've already got exclusive rights to the manufacturing process for consumer electronics purposes. Seems like it could be implemented 100% as effectively with stamped and cut stainless steel.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[jellomizer]

Yea, too bad USB can't transfer data...

Perhaps it could have a Universal Bus that can send data perhaps Serially.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[houghi]

I thought there was a European law that required a standard for the charging of phones. I am sure that Apple will tell in court how their phone is something else completely and nothing like that Sony thing. They will say that it does not even look like it and the Sony is a phone and their device is as

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[hackertourist]

USB does not include analogue video and audio outputs.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[squiggleslash]

No. I said I don't want to carry around my only USB cable.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Desler]

It's a standard pushed by the EU not a law. Also, Apple sells a mini-USB adapter to comply with the standard.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Desler]

USB scan carry analogue signals such as the dock connector can?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

The current dock connector has been introduced with the 3G iPod in 2003, and Apple kept it unchanged for almost a decade - please remind me again, how many times did other manufacturers change connectors during this period?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

> Requiring people to buy new sets of chargers, cables, accessories, docks

That might actually be the plan.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[CanHasDIY]

Yea, too bad USB can't transfer data...

Perhaps it could have a Universal Bus that can send data perhaps Serially.

Brilliant!

Quickly now, let's write up an RFC and patent that shit before anyone beats us to it!

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Attila Dimedici]

I suppose if the only portable devices you have are IOS devices than that is fine, but wouldn't it be nice if I would not have to have a separate cable for all of my IOS devices and another one for everything else?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[idontgno]

I have never heard "analogue video and audio" cited as an advantage.

Out here in the 21st Century, digital A/V is preferred. And works JUST FINE over USB 2.0 and later.

No, let's all be candid and stop deluding ourselves. Apple isn't inventing whizzy new proprietary connectors because they believe micro USB doesn't support all important use cases. They're inventing whizzy new proprietary connectors because USB wasn't invented, copyrighted, and patented at One Infinite Loop.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[fa2k]

I have a crappy pink Alcatel that came with a headset with a mini-USB connector. It's a really simple thing, and I don't think it has a USB controller, so there is a way to send analog audio over a USB connector.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Darinbob]

Well you need a charger at home and one at work. Possibly an auto charger as well if you travel a lot.

Got a micro usb last weekend, store was selling ridiculous ones for $20 and seemed to be the only one. Until I found the discount bin with $1.95 cables that did the same thing but weren't in white. Now where can you get an iphone connector for only $1.95?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Karlt1]

So you want a $10 boom box from Walmart that now can connect to an analog pin to add a USB controller and the necessary software to get data and translate it?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a brilliant idea! Let's carry analog audio signals through 35+ gauge wire!

No, wait, that's idiotic; this is 2012 and circuitry is cheap. You want a digital signal as far as you can get it.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Karlt1]

You don't "send audio" over USB. You have a USB host controller and software to decode the data. But you can "send audio" over a line out pin and not require any software by the host.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now where can you get an iphone connector for only $1.95?

eBay (shipped, US seller.)

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anubis IV]

There are a number of valid reasons for not using USB. I'll address some of them and make a few guesses towards Apple's perspective, but I'm not interested in arguing whether or not this is the right decision.

By using their own port, they can ensure that every device/cable that will ever be plugged into it (by a sane person) will work as expected. In contrast, if they were to use a general purpose port, such as micro USB, while it would be able to connect to more devices and cables, you'd also introduce confusion as a result, as well as introducing compromise by using a general purpose solution for something that may be better served by a specific solution. Regarding the latter idea, someone far smarter than I discussed it at length just yesterday, going into detail for why this is such a good design for the application in which it will be used. He talks about why it's better in terms of simplicity, integrity, and a number of other factors than the current dock connector, but many of those would apply to USB as well.

For a few other examples that weren't mentioned in that article of why having a proprietary port may be a good idea, unlike the current dock connector, which has dedicated pins for video and audio and standard ways of supplying them, implementations of video and audio over USB are not so standardized across the industry. Some devices may support certain files or certain codecs, while others support nothing at all. Some devices that can play video may not be able to accept any video at all from mobile devices hooked up to it. There are no guarantees. When a user plugs their device into an accessory that's supposed to support video and/or audio, will it, in fact, support it for their model? The answer is "maybe". That sort of confusion and poor handling of user expectations undermines confidence in the brand among the general public, which is something that Apple would clearly want to avoid.

And if you go by the standards, USB doesn't carry anywhere close to enough power for modern devices to charge quickly for most people, so they'd already have to stray away from the standard as it is (which is exactly what they (and many other manufacturers, for that matter) have done for years with USB ports on their computers).

As I said, those are some of the benefits to having a proprietary design. Does it mean that it's worth not using USB? For Apple, quite possibly so, especially since they can still support it via an adapter, as they already do in Europe, thus eliminating complaints that people have to buy new chargers and the like. And I imagine that Apple does not see interoperability with other accessories designed for devices besides theirs as being important (or perhaps even of value), which may be justifiable, given the number of hardware accessories available specifically for devices with their current dock connector and the consistency with which they operate.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[roman_mir]

2 things.

1. Requiring people to buy new sets of chargers, cables, accessories, docks for a new product - I don't understand, why wouldn't you want to give money to Apple? You already have their products, doesn't it mean that you want to give them more money?

2. USB? How would Apple iProduct owners differentiate themselves from the plebes?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Until I found the discount bin with $1.95 cables that did the same thing but weren't in white. Now where can you get an iphone connector for only $1.95?

monoprice.com. $3.25 for a white or black (your choice) iPhone charge/sync cable.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[shutdown -p now]

Samsung, for example.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[phorm]

The box comes with a USB charging cable and why do you need a dock?

I don't think you'd want a dock for charging, but there are an awful lot of devices that plug an iPhone/iPod into a dock-style connector to play music etc

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[UnknowingFool]

No reason? Here are the pinouts for the Apple dock connector. Are you saying MHL can replace them all? If the answer is no, then there is a reason.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[UnknowingFool]

In order to play back a digital signal you need some sort of DSP and to agree upon sort of standard. Is it MP3 or AAC or Ogg or AC3? If the signal is analog stereo, the complexity is a lot less especially in something like a car where you don't need 5.1.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, nobody is taking away your 3.5mm jack that dates back to the late 70s. We just want the digital connector standardized.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[AmiMoJo]

Don't you think not including the charger in the box is ridiculous for such an expensive product? Talk about gouging. They only include the USB adapter because the EU basically forced them to.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[fa2k]

So what's your point? It's possible to use the four pins of USB as line out and microphone in. I'm not saying it's a good idea (just use a damn mini-jack), but it can be done. http://www.fa2k.net/misc/IMG_20120816_222223.jpg

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

If only there was some sort of standards organization, perhaps some sort of "Implementers Forum", that could standardize different "device classes" for this hypothetical "universal service bus" that we're discussing. Why, I'll bet you that this "audio device class" would be one of the first ones they'd specify, it would probably have code 0x01 or something.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[makomk]

I think the only ones that are still used that MHL can't replace directly are analog audio line in and out, though obviously it supports digital audio out. Remember that most of those pins aren't actually available on the iPhone.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[c 0xFF]

Let's summarize this list, shall we?

1, 2, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 23, 29, 30 - Power signals
7, 14, 17 - Reserved or unknown
11, 3, 4, 5, 6 - Audio
8, 9, 10 - Video
12, 13 - Serial
22, 24, 26, 28 - FireWire
25, 27 - USB
21 - Accessory type

So, which does USB + MHL replace?

Power? Check!
Audio? Check!
Video? Check!
Data? Check!

You have to give up FireWire and your basic serial port connection, but that's mostly just redundant capability to what USB provides.

Just because there are 30 pins, that does not mean that the connector provides 30 different features.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[BronsCon]

Yup, my Motorola Atrix and HTC One X both do this. The One X also uses the same port for MHL, to provide HDMI-compliant audio and video, while the Atrix opted for a micro-HDMI port for that purpose.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, while the connector has firewire pins, no current iPod/Phone/Pad actually has anything connected up to them...

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[fermion]

I must agree that the dock connector might be silly thing. At the time it made sense because the iPod ran off the firewire port, and presumably, Apple had plans to make it run off the USB port when the standard became fast enough. I can say that owning an MP3 player that ran on USB 1.0, filling even 64MB of music was painful(yes MB).

That said the USB standard really sucks. When there were just two types, the big and small, that was manageable. But then I got a Kindle fire and now I have to carry around three cables, four with the dock connector. At the very least I only need one cable for my iOS devices and one adapter for my Macs. WIth Apple in transition, it will be two or three years of annoyance, but with USB there is a new cable every couple years. And USB 3.0 is said to be completely different.

I do, however, appreciate the USB standard for phones.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[c 0xFF]

Go to your nearest hotel. Most have a bin with every charger imaginable, and will often just give them away.

Apparently, people leave their phone chargers in their rooms quite a lot.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[UnknowingFool]

That is a non-answer. The USB forum only specifies physical connectivity; it does not software interfaces. In the case of USB, data is conveyed in two plugs. One plug is data out and other is data in. Nowhere in the USB specification that if you connect your player to a car stereo which format the data should be in. Please cite anywhere in USB specification this information. To be as universal as possible, analog stereo is the minimum that a car stereo should handle.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[UnknowingFool]

Basically you lumped all video and audio into a broad category and ignored that there are digital and analog versions of both. So then the answer is still no.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Karlt1]

So once you do that....you're no longer using "USB" you're using proprietary signalling that uses the same pins.....

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Requiring people to buy new sets of chargers, cables, accessories, docks for a new product

I don't understand, why wouldn't you want to give money to Apple? You already have their products, doesn't it mean that you want to give them more money?

Maybe because the docks are generally not made by Apple? Look at all the various sound systems out there that have apple docks built in to them. Apple doesn't make all the docks on the market, and likely doesn't want to. A lot of people even have apple docks in their cars and in their alarm clocks; they likely aren't looking forward to replacing the dock in their car (if they even can) or buying a new alarm clock. Apple doesn't actually make either of those products, so their profit on that is minimal at best.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Desler]

It's not just analogue audio it also carries analogue video.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[thegarbz]

And if you go by the standards, USB doesn't carry anywhere close to enough power for modern devices to charge quickly for most people, so they'd already have to stray away from the standard as it is (which is exactly what they (and many other manufacturers, for that matter) have done for years with USB ports on their computers).

Except for the current standard which provides plenty of power to fast charge a smartphone. Anyway this is all moot because Apple implemented exactly the same standards workaround as everyone else. Plug the device into a computer and it'll negotiate the faster power available. Plug the device into a standalone charger and it will do some magic to draw even more.

I have yet to hear of someone damaging their computer or their mobile device, and changing the socket on the bottom of the phone doesn't fix or change any of this.

We can agree on the rest of your points though.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, if they only created some sort of "Universal Serial Bus Device Class Description for Audio Devices" back in 1998 that exactly specifies how a device conveys how many channels it has, what they're for and which audio formats it supports, That'd be like... totally great. Hell, they could even add descriptors for things like hardware volume control, up/downmixing, equalizers and stuff.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[zippthorne]

Now where can you get an iphone connector for only $1.95?

No clue. How about $3.25? You need it to charge too?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[UnknowingFool]

Which doesn't remotely answer the original question. It's a general spec that does not address decoding a data stream at all. It organizes how it should work but has no detail to actually make it work. For example on decoding:

The conversion process from incoming logical audio channels to possibly encoded audio streams always involves some kind of encoding engine. This specification defines several types of encoding, ranging from rather trivial to very sophisticated schemes.

Does it tell you how to decode music in Ogg Vorbis or Windows Media or AAC (which didn't exist at the time). Nope.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[jrumney]

All iProducts ship with chargers equipped with standard USB ports.

No they are non-standard USB ports, as they follow Apple's own incompatible standards for charging ports rather than the USB consortium's standards. Also, iPad charging ports need non-standard connectors, as they draw 2.1A, which is above the 1.5A rating for a standard USB connector.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

In order to play back a digital signal you need some sort of DSP and to agree upon sort of standard. Is it MP3 or AAC or Ogg or AC3?

The standard is there already; it is PCM. And you don't need a DSP, you need a DAC and a USB controller, which will cost you about the same as Apple's patent license for the 30 pin connector (and presumably for the new connector as well). Posted anonymously, because Apple is so anal about their NDAs that they would probably sue me for revealing the ballpark of their license fees here.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[jrumney]

Nowhere in the USB specification that if you connect your player to a car stereo which format the data should be in. Please cite anywhere in USB specification this information.

Try here, but it's only been around since 1998 so I guess you haven't had time to find it yet.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anubis IV]

Yeah, I was being pedantic about standards in that part. I really should have just removed the entire paragraph, to be honest, since it was weak and tangential at best.

That said, I wasn't aware of any more recent standards for USB offering better power draw and am now curious about that. Last I checked, USB 3's was comparable or the same as USB 2's, which is why all of these companies are implementing the workarounds we've described.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[jrumney]

By using their own port, they can ensure that every device/cable that will ever be plugged into it (by a sane person) will work as expected.

Right, because Chinese suppliers of unauthorized cables and accessories just do not exist. And what is that cable that comes with you iDevice. Oh that's right, an adapter cable from standard USB to the iPod Dock connector.

implementations of video and audio over USB are not so standardized across the industry.

USB audio has been standardized since 1998. Video not so much, but MHL seems to be catching on now, and HDMI is now more standard than the S-Video and component outputs supported in the 30 pin connector (I'm guessing the new connector will drop at least component out, as it has far fewer pins to play with).

And if you go by the standards, USB doesn't carry anywhere close to enough power for modern devices to charge quickly for most people

Firewire charging was deprecated years ago, and modern iDevices only charge via USB. Even with their proprietary connectors. So this doesn't seem to be a concern to Apple.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

The other pdf on the site there has the specified formats. There's uncompressed PCM, there's MPEG Layer 3, and there's AC-3. The phone can convert the stream to PCM, since that's already part of the audio playback pipeline, and the dock plays that. There are already devices on the market that do this.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[c 0xFF]

Yes, and I lumped three different serial data connections into one broad category, too.

When it really comes down to it, does ANY consumer really need three different serial connections? Does any current accessory even use the traditional serial connection? Nothing uses the FireWire connection, that's for sure.

So, now let's talk about analog audio. If you really, really need analog audio, then the 3.5mm jack is there. Or use one of the many readily available adapters. For 99% of all use cases, though, the digital format is actually preferred anyway. Often better audio quality, and you can communicate over a standard USB connection, with all the side benefits that gives.

And what about analog video? Well, it seems that even Apple is phasing that one out with this new connector! It's obsolete and unnecessary.

In other words, USB+MHL gives us all the functionality, while still being completely standard. The answer is an absolute yes.

(Oh, and did I mention that the MHL adapters are half the price of the Apple versions?)

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[thegarbz]

USB 3.0 doubles the single slot power output and allows a device to request an additional slot (6). You can now draw almost an amp from a USB3.0 socket which is more than an iPhone 4 draws from a wall, even though the official charger is rated 2A from what I recall.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[thegarbz]

Sorry, correction, doesn't double, but gives 1.5x the unit output power. 150mA per unit, x6 gives 900mA over USB2.0's 500mA. Not that this really actually helps since many devices don't correctly request multiple units of power of the OS and as such only charge at 100mA anyway (Samsung Galaxy series I'm looking at you).

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[wvmarle]

One of the reasons of the development of the micro USB standard, and phones having a standard 3.5 mm jack for headphones, is that you don't have to buy a new charger or new charging cable with every phone you get. Most people buying a phone, are replacing one. It would be great if at least one can re-use the charger of one to charge the other. And it allows more competition in market for replacement chargers.

Point in case: my wife bought herself a Kindle some time ago, and is now charging them via my LG phone's charger. The kindle came with a micro USB cable (nice to have a spare), but no charger. Being able to re-use an existing charger is just fantastic, it saves clutter, it saves money, it reduces waste (one less charger produced and, sooner or later, scrapped).

You already say "the box comes with USB charging cable", that means that by buying an iPhone you ARE required to buy such a cable as well. It comes as a package, after all, the cost of that cable is in the price of your iPhone.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Dan541]

Not to mention that if you lose your USB cable you are more likely to be able to borrow a cable, or replace it.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[hackertourist]

If you implement AV out via USB, the host must contain a processor. Then you can't just jack your iPod into a car stereo or TV anymore.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[MtViewGuy]

That would be great except Micro USB is designed for raw data transfer and device charging ONLY. Apple wants a connector with a lot more functionality, especially video out, which has very high bandwidth requirements.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Plumpaquatsch]

Speaking for myself, I've never wanted to carry around anything but the device itself. Being able to have a cheap, almost disposable, charger at work that works with all my devices is the way to go.

Easy solution: get a Micro-USB dock-connector and glue it in. Now your iPhone has the same standard connector all other phones have.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Plumpaquatsch]

http://www.tvc-mall.com/details/30-Pin-Dock-Connector-to-Micro-USB-Adapter-for-The-New-iPad-iPhone-4S-iPod-Touch-White-IPHONE4S-795B/

30 Pin Dock Connector to Micro USB Adapter for The New iPad iPhone 4S iPod Touch - White Quantity Range Unit Price 1 -- 3 $ 1.12

Sorry, I am bellow your price. You win.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple's dock connector supports some signals that aren't directly available on USB (like video out and audio in/out)

Other manufacturers can get a micro-USB port to also double as a HDMI output.

By raping the standard USB port into doing something not USB-standard. And that's better because? Ohh, because there's about a dozen peripherals that support this.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Plumpaquatsch]

Samsung, for example.

That's funny, because they don't use the standard Micro-USB port for this, at least on newer machines like the SIII.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[butchersong]

Given that it's Apple I'm suprised they went with another wired connector. Phones making more use of wireless sync and one of the things I really loved about the old Palm phones was the touchstone charger. That would be really slick and set the next Apple device apart from the competition. Maybe some patent issue...?

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[CAIMLAS]

tl;dr

Translation: "Here are a lot of words which try to explain away the fact that Apple has no valid engineering reasons for this. They just want the money from licensing the new interface and everyone only being able to buy Apple or Apple-licensed accessories."

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anubis IV]

Except that I did offer a few engineering reasons, and I pointed to a resource that offered a number of additional ones as well. You'll also note that I said nothing about them licensing it for money, since that was well outside the scope of what I was addressing. But hey, feel free to continue showcasing your inability to comprehend simple text.

Re:Just use micro USB already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sarcasm isn't nearly as clever as you think it is...

Chaaaange places!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apples genius was getting the tech ignorant masses to accept the upgrade treadmill as a fact of life. $$$

Re:Chaaaange places!!!!!

[GameboyRMH]

Fact of life? They see it as a series of religious holidays to be celebrated.

Connector Change?

[Murdoch5]

Why do people care that the connector is changing. Personally I don't anything that doesn't use a standard good old available and open USB connector. All changing the connector does is make it harder to interface to devices and objects. Basically with Apple changing the connector they're saying "We don't want our users to be able to easily and readily use our products for interfacing, lets make them spend extra money because we need to be different", this is yet another thing Apples is doing to piss me off. Just standardize to the rest of the market Apple, you look like a fool using a proprietary connector.

Re:Connector Change?

[jmerlin]

I care because right now, iOS does not compete at all with Jellybean. iPhone hardware competes on no level but pixel density with other devices. iTunes as an app store is horrendous by comparison to Google Play and others, and it's quickly being matched in content (I can use Spotify for Music, and various other sources for all the same video, etc). In essence, what was the great iPhone victory of smart phones is completely gone. The iPhone has nothing going for it anymore except that it's made by Apple and costs nearly twice as much as similar smart phones. That means that the connector fail here is a huge deciding factor in terms of objective feature sets. If Apple screws this up, Apple eats a massive loss on next-gen iPhone sales, and arguably might be dropped out of the smart phone industry altogether (one can hope). So I care because a small mistake here can mean the end of iPhones, and good riddance.

An example of adapter win: I just bought a Galaxy Nexus from Google. Awesome phone. My old GPS in my car used a mini-usb connector to charge. Therefore, I already have a car charger for my phone (which also happens to be my new GPS, because Google Navigation is incredibly hawt). That's the pure win of standards. After using an iPhone for almost 3 years, I was astonished at how terrible iOS is by comparison to Jellybean. My god I will never use an iPhail again.

Re:Connector Change?

[Desler]

The iPhone has nothing going for it anymore except that it's made by Apple and costs nearly twice as much as similar smart phones.

No, it doesn't. New iPhone models have $199 subsidized prices which is exactly the same cost as a new Galaxy S model or any comparable high-end Android phone. Even going by unsubsidized price the difference between the Galaxy S 3 and the 4S is actually $50 dollars in the 4S's favor (16 GB 4S is $649 vs Galaxy S 3 16GB at $699). Comparing against the Galaxy S 2 the price difference is $649 to $549. Last time I checked that's not twice as much but is less than 20% difference. What 'similar smart phone' are you talking about that costs half as much as the iPhone?

Re:Connector Change?

[Desler]

And before you try to claim the Galaxy Nexus. It cost $699 unsubsidized when it was released originally.

Re:Connector Change?

[Overzeetop]

"iOS does not compete at all with Jellybean"

Exactly - they're two entirely different paradigms for user interface. Jelly Bean is made so that you can make it work and feel any way you want. iOS is made so that no matter which iDevice you use or who's iDevice it is, it works the same. You can flail about all you want about how useful the customization is, but it completely misses the point that most of the user base for phones not only doesn't give a rats ass about customization beyond choosing a lock screen photo, but actually benefits from never having to mess with it.

Trust me - I had the uber-custom WM6 phone for a couple of years and it was just plain awesome how I could keep everything I needed right at my fingertips. Custom ROMs, lock screen information, 3D access to customized app pages with detailed configuration data, custom button mappings - you name it. I have an iPhone now, and each time I pick up and Android device to see how it is (or, heaven forbid, have to fix my mother's droid), I'm reminded of all the wasted hours of customization. Are there things I would like to change? YES. Is it worth the added complexity in my life? Not right now...maybe in ten years when I'm not as busy with, well, life.

Re:Connector Change?

[Murdoch5]

That's my point, Apple isn't doing a favor to the iPhone by going with a special connector when everyone else and there dog uses USB. We are in an age when commercial devices for the everyday person are expected to be compatible connector wise. I'm NOT talking about the special hardware that is specializes to a purpose and needs a special connector for it's own type of data, I'm talking about objects like Phones, GPS units, Mp3 players and etc..... Having a special format connector for those devices just separates you from a market that you could fit into.

Re:Connector Change?

[Murdoch5]

Your not even close, Right now if I go out and buy an iPhone 4s it will cost me $850 Before Tax!!!!! That is insane, no phone is worth that much. I just looked it up on www.virginmobile.ca

Re:Connector Change?

[davewoods]

Apple, you look like a fool using a proprietary connector

I wish I could give you some kind of award for saying what I want to tell all my coworkers. They all swear by Apple and their precious iPhones. In the last couple of years, the only connectors I have seen on a non iPhone have been Micro USB. I just wish Apple would stop grabbing for money and go with the flow, I feel like the planets would align if the entire phone industry agreed on a single connector to power every single device... But noooooo, the tech giant Apple still somehow wants more money than they already have? It nearly sickens me.

Re:Connector Change?

[Keen Anthony]

I use both Google Play and iTunes. iTunes as a storefront is better, much better. As software, it's a gatekeeper, and I really don't like that. Then again, I really hate the concept of syncing content to my phone vs dragging and dropping onto a mounted volume. iPhones do NOT cost twice as much as similar smart phones. Similar high end smart phones are all about the same, especially when you take into account subsidies. I do not recognize budget Android phones as being similar to even my original Droid. What iPhone has going for it is the software, and software is what matters. USB hasn't been a utopia. I've got numerous USB devices that aren't compatible with each other. I've got multiple connector types. I've got cables that don't seem to work properly with certain USB devices. It's not the mess that it used to be when every phone had its own connector and plug, but really it's not that great. And it's not as if one now has to go and buy multiple cables or replacement hardware or suffer incompatibility between their smart phone and every other USB device they have. With iPhone, this will be more of a hassle though because there are a number of third party products that use the old connector including speakers, alarm clocks, etc. And these are designed to connect snuggly to prominently display the phone, so I don't expect there to be a workable solution short of an ugly adapter cable.

Re:Connector Change?

[jmerlin]

Galaxy Nexus 16GB - $350 unlocked from Google Play
iPhone 4S 16GB - $650 unlocked from Apple

Technical specs favor the Nexus. Most reviews favor the Nexus. I've actually seen subsidized offers for a Galaxy Nexus for free. I don't see a competition here at all.

Re:Connector Change?

[jmerlin]

The Galaxy Nexus was released a month after the iPhone 4S. Additionally, IIRC, you couldn't purchase an iPhone 4S originally unlocked. So the cost of a 2 year contract on top of a $299 purchase was actually significantly more than $699. (24 months @ $20/month = $779, this is based on the fact that I went from paying $65 a month with my iPhone to AT&T to $45 a month with my Galaxy Nexus).

The point remains: an iPhone 4S is still $650 while a GNexus, while being a better phone overall, is only $350. I don't see a victory for the iPhone anywhere.

Re:Connector Change?

[jmerlin]

Except that you're wrong. On an iPhone, you have constraints that force you to deal with crap that you never need to deal with on an Android device. Only ever use 4 apps, ever? You can't uninstall those vendor apps, they're permanent unless you jailbreak your phone. So how do you clean up your pages? You make folders and dump everything into them, then move it to another page. You just did customization that I, as an Android user, have never had to do. What do I do? The apps I install that I use are put on my front page by default (I can turn that off, if I want, too). It's more likely that I will use apps that I install than that I will use every app provided on the phone by default (there are a good 15 I don't think I've ever used). I'm doing nothing but getting the same benefit as the hack you have to do on an iPhone. Further, I can drop a few widgets on an info panel and see the current weather and how long it'll take me to get home instead of opening apps and waiting for data to load, like on the iPhone. You're spending all that extra time opening a weather app every time you want to check the weather. And on and on and on.

Managing running apps and multitasking on an iPhone? Talk about a chore, if it even works, most of the time it's just a "recently used" list because most (all?) apps just re-launch instead of resume. A single notification in the middle of the lock screen? So you have to unlock your phone and open the appropriate app.. that's not inconvenient at all? I'm talking about stock functionality and stock configuration in Jellybean, here. Not something you spend hours configuring. iOS is just terrible. This is as an ex-iOS user reborn into the light that is Android.

Let me relate the iOS hot screens to the desktop of your mother. Check it sometime. Hundreds of icons, 90% unused. She might make a new folder every once in a while and dump most of the icons in it to "clean up," but then you'll be damned if you need to actually access one of those files. Now you have to go searching for it. All I do is open up my application list, which is in alphabetical order, and pick the uncommonly-used-app I want.

Re:Connector Change?

[jmerlin]

I've found Google Play significantly better in every regard. For applications, it's painless. It's seamless. I never have to deal with pop-ups and constantly re-agree to the changed iTunes TOS (which seemed to happen once a week for the longest time). I don't have to constantly enter my iTunes password on my phone (pain in the ass, it really is, and being required to type in your password in a public place on a little phone that everyone can see where each character of your password is shown in plaintext until you press the next one is .. yeah that's secure, Apple). If an app is free, I get ZERO hassle from Google Play. Amazing.

As for music, movies, etc. It's still incredibly easy, and it doesn't require me have this big bulky poorly written iTunes application on my desktop to manage my phone, to sync my purchased data, etc. I just re-download my purchased content. I can even buy music/movies from Google Play by just going to a website, and watch the movies and listen to the music on my computer.

I can't find a single thing that iTunes does better than Google Play. Nothing. Read the TOS of both sometimes. It's even better at that. Shocking.

Re:Connector Change?

[Anonymous Coward]

"iOS does not compete at all with Jellybean."

Exactly right. One OS is designed to delight it's users. The other is designed to delight advertisers.

Re:Connector Change?

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhone hardware competes on no level but pixel density with other devices.

Not even that. Sony Xperia S does 342dpi (1280*720) which is what ... retina++++?

Re:Connector Change?

[Keen Anthony]

There are those annoyances for sure. I do prefer a web-based storefront for convenience, and as I implied, I don't like being tethered to a single application. Being Mac-based, I preferred the Zune HD to the iPod but couldn't use it again because somebody (Microsoft) had to have native gatekeeper application. For content, my preferences dictate that I use iTunes because the videos and magazines I want aren't on Google Play. I will have to check out Google Play again though. I just looked up Retrogamer (a UK old school gaming magazine) to see if it was available, and I saw that I can now get a subscription via Zinio. I'm currently using the Retrogamer app on iOS which is collated with other magazines in iOS' Newsstand. Maybe more of my zines are available now. I'll definitely concede that as more content becomes available on Google Play, I will come to like it more than iTunes. I don't even use iTunes for playback of music; but there's still the apps, and there's a number of iOS apps which don't exist on Android. So at this point, iTunes is vastly better for me.

Re:Connector Change?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of your criticism is flat out wrong.

Unused icons need to be stuffed into folders? I know lots of iPhone users, and I don't know a single person who needs to do that, because... there are like 3-4 apps at most that fit that description, that come with the phone as stock apps.

Wait for weather app to load? Just drag down the notification window, voila, there's your weather in iOS. No waiting at all. This might even be faster than dealing with widgets.

Managing multitasking? I'd rather my phone try to conserve battery, honestly. I DO wish, however, that iOS multitasking bar would have a status symbol for apps that have been dumped from memory as opposed to just frozen.

Notifications were erased as a problem in iOS 5, it is more or less on par with Android now. The downside to that is, well, there is a lot more customization needed now, as often iOS apps assume an invasive default level of notification.

Re:Connector Change?

[humanrev]

I have an iPhone now, and each time I pick up and Android device to see how it is (or, heaven forbid, have to fix my mother's droid), I'm reminded of all the wasted hours of customization. Are there things I would like to change? YES. Is it worth the added complexity in my life? Not right now...maybe in ten years when I'm not as busy with, well, life.

The customizability of Android is optional. Most Android phones speced similarly to iPhones perform very competitively out of the box without requiring any major customization. It's just that Android allows you to further customize should you wish it, whereas iPhone is vastly limited.

Just because you couldn't discipline yourself to stop wasting time customization at some point, doesn't mean that the availability of customizable features is a bad thing. Wasting hours on customization is NOT mandatory with Android to get a working product. But it's nice that the option is there.

Re:Connector Change?

[Anonymous Coward]

The seller who quoted that price for the SIII is making a handy profit... For example, it's $549 unsubsidized directly from AT&T.

Or perhaps, you're just biased.

Re:Connector Change?

[omnichad]

Just a guess this being a US site and all that the above is in USD. The prices in Canada probably come from that silly thing companies do where they charge the same number of dollars in both USD and CAD.

Re:Connector Change?

[Murdoch5]

That silly thing doesn't account for the difference from $199 to $850, according to google as of 10:02am the conversion rate from CAD to USD: 1 Canadian dollar = 1.01174 U.S. dollars, which can doesn't account for the difference. Outright the iPhone is much more expensive for 0 added features and 0 added benefit, other then an Apple stick on the back.

Re:Connector Change?

[omnichad]

$199? I thought you were comparing to that post's parent. $199 is the SUBSIDIZED price. Did you read that part? Not full retail - it's the "discount with 2 year contract" price.

Re:Connector Change?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you can customize something, doesn't mean you have to. And with older versions of Android, you may have felt a need to customize, but vanilla Ice Cream Sandwich is nice and doesn't need to be customized and Jelly Bean is very nice.

Re:Connector Change?

[Murdoch5]

Which means nothing because you need to compare the full cost of the phone off the plan. If were talking about the phone itself then including a plan discount is skewing your point. So the Samsung S3 is $650 if your buy it straight, The HTC Desire C is $150, The Blackberry 9900 is $600 and the iPhone is still $850, making far more expensive then any of the other top contending phones. All my prices are with out a plan which is what matters.

LOL...

[sudden.zero]

Let the race for a old style to new style jack converter begin.

Re:LOL...

[noh8rz7]

You need a new style JERK converter!

Re:LOL...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah? Well I had sex with your wife!

Re:LOL...

[Anonymous Coward]

DORK connector is the word you were looking for.

Re:LOL...

[sudden.zero]

Hey, FU Apple Fanboy!

I'll believe it when I see the actual iPhone 5.

[TigerPlish]

'till then it's just a picture of someone's parts. Could be anyone's parts. Could be intentional misinformation. Could be a rejected Apple design. Could be Samsung, even!

At least TFA got lots of clicks and eyeballs. Well done, advertisers.

O.M.G.

[Anonymous Coward]

This [new thing] apple is doing is the coolest thing EVER!

Why is the home button below the new connector?

[Anonymous Coward]

In my current iPad, the connector and home button are close but clearly the connector is on the edge of the case. When i look at the picture, the home button is below the new connector and headphone jack. If the connector and jack are on the edge of the case doesn't that mean that the button is outside of the case?

Re:Why is the home button below the new connector?

[Desler]

No, it doesn't. That is a bendable cable.

Re:Why is the home button below the new connector?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that is the Apple Patented iCable, bendable in very cool bends.

Everybody who tries to copy these bends will be sued.

Re:Why is the home button below the new connector?

[davewoods]

Indeed, I thought the same, but it is as you say. The picture is of the back of the unit, the home button bends up and away from the perspective of the viewer.

Re:Why is the home button below the new connector?

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, are an asshole.

Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[bhunachchicken]

I'm going with the following -

1. No adapter in the box (after all, Apple didn't tell you to buy that accessory)*
2. Adapters will cost $30 each ($10 to make, plus Apple's mark-up, plus tax)**

* - after 9 months of moaning from people who say Apple have screwed them over, Apple will provide all iPhone 5 purchasers with a $5 off voucher, when ordering the adapter direct from their own website.
** - a commenter on the Daily Mail website is claiming that the adapters will only cost $5 each. No chance, sorry. How will Apple make any money off those???

Re:Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[PayPaI]

Yeah, it's not like they sell a similar adapter for $9

Re:Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[makomk]

That link appears goes to an Amazon Marketplace seller, and lot of the Apple-branded cables and adapters on there are counterfeits.

Re:Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Apple does not sell this adapter outside the EU, but they do make it:

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD099ZM/A

Re:Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[ModernGeek]

This is correct, it is not available in the US Store.

Re:Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[Anonymous Coward]

$10 to make MY ASS.

Try $0.05

Re:Place your bets of the price of adapters!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the reason for the amazon link may be because Apple don't seem to sell them in the US, only in Europe as that is where the Micro USB advisory came from...

Price for the same part number on the Apple UK website is £8 - about $12.50

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD099ZM/A

But Read/Write Speeds are atrocious

[coldandcalculating]

The fastest DNA polymerases can copy a template at around 250 bases/sec. Chemical DNA synthesis is much slower.

As for read speeds, DNA sequencing can be done serially (500-800 bases in a matter of hours - 1 cent per base) or massively parallel (100-200 bases per read; 100 million reads; overnight - $1000 per chip by year's end?)

Tools allowing for rapid synthesis (write) and sequencing (read) of DNA would enable a biotech revolution similar in scope and impact to the computing revolution of the last century. As far as I know, this technology is still incredibly far away, but definitely merits relentless R&D.

Re:But Read/Write Speeds are atrocious

[coldandcalculating]

thread fail. my bad

Re:But Read/Write Speeds are atrocious

[davewoods]

I got really excited, I thought you were talking about some kind of crazy new connector that uses DNA to transfer the data at incredible speeds. I got really mixed up trying to convert ~650 bases/hour at 1 cent per base into MB/s.

Fragmentation!

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the main selling points is that every phone connects the same place and say way all docking stations are built so that they are pieces of art with no spare room. This will be devastating!

USB host

[Anonymous Coward]

What no one is talking about is whether this will have usb hosting abilities like some android devices.
Imagine hooking up a thumbdrive to your iphone (and possibly also ipad)

Re:USB host

[Anonymous Coward]

No, Apple will not do that. That's just stupid speculation.

I don't get it

[bugs2squash]

why does it need a dock connector at all ? I'd prefer a totally waterproof / dust-proof phone and it seems far more "Apple".

Re:I don't get it

[Overzeetop]

That would probably have been on the road map if the aliens hadn't killed Jobs. His perfect device would have no interface points whatsoever - just a perfectly smooth, hermetically sealed case. I'd go so far as to say that the front and back would be indistinguishable, save for a slightly luminescent Apple logo on the back. Headphones and portable chargers would be magnetically keyed. Data transfer would be entirely wireless.

It would be exactly like the gadgets advanced beings carried around (and inexplicably lost) in scifi novels we read as kids.

Re:I'll believe it when I see the actual iPhone 5.

[Anonymous Coward]

"it's just a picture of someone's parts. Could be anyone's parts. "

There are specialists you can talk to about your porn addiction.

New category?

[metrometro]

Does slashdot have a category for unconfirmed photos of a frakking plug? Because that would go great with the "op-eds about what I think the bezel width might be" and the "patent cases even the judge is bored with" section.

Seriously. The Daily Mail?

[tgibbs]

You might as well read the time from a stopped clock.

Re:Seriously. The Daily Mail?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not? It'll tell the correct time twice a day.

The vendors are going to love this!

[Qbertino]

The vendors are going to love this. Apple is going the way of MS, only hardware wise. Giving every vendor catering to their devices with peripherals an excuse to sell the same stuff all over again. Smart business move, and not a moment to early.

Oh no!

[Anonymous Coward]

A company is deprecating antiquated hardware in favor of newer designs that are faster, cheaper, and (or) more capable. The world will crumble! Apple are evil! How dare they deprive us of 3.5" floppy drives and parallel ports! How dare they!

Re:Oh no!

[omnichad]

They aren't the ones that deprecated parallel ports. They used a serial interface for printers before they went to USB. They did just start deprecating CD/DVD drives with the new Macbook Pro.

So much for Apple's legendary secrecy

[sethmeisterg]

WTF happened? Steve's not even cold and you basically have the whole shebang in the open weeks before the announcement. That's ridiculous. If I were Cook, I'd be slicing heads faster than a 4-armed sushi chef at rush hour.

Can be plugged in either orientation + trip-safe?

[Scowler]

It would be great to get a connector that can be plugged in either orientation (symmetric) and acts like Apple Macbook power cables (trip-safe magnetized). Micro-USB doesn't have either feature, so it's actually not a great choice.

Apple and partners have requirements

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obvious that all these Slashdot comments about how Apple should "just use USB" haven't bothered to do even some basic research.

Apple and its partners have requirements that Micro-USB can't fill:

http://www.cultofmac.com/178093/the-future-of-apples-dock-connector-feature/

With USB, charging and HID are mutually exclusive

[superposed]

You suggest controlling volume and playback by having peripherals act like USB keyboards ("support HID"). But in the USB world peripherals can only be connected to hosts (e.g., PCs), not to each other. And currently iPods and iPhones act as peripheral devices, making it impossible to connect them to other peripherals (e.g., devices that act like keyboards). This is true both logically and physically.

To be more specific, iPods and iPhones either have to act as peripherals and use a Type B USB connector, or have to act as hosts and use a Type A connector. In the first case, they could charge and send out audio and video using the approaches you suggest, but they can't receive HID information (as far as I know). In the second case they could receive HID information, but I don't think they would be able to charge or send out audio and video.

Maybe it's time for a true peer-to-peer replacement for USB?

Great stuff.

[Anonymous Coward]

The best part is how the slashdot story about Debian's 19'th birthday has all of a dozen posts in it, only one or two of which are not "who cares?" while this post about a rumored and unreleased tiny aspect of a future Apple product has HUNDREDS of posts all excitedly talking about how awesome the future will be thank to Apple. This really goes to show how Linux and open sores have completely failed in the real world. Not even slashdot, the former home of the lin-sux zealot could care less about lin-sux any more. The future is Apple, and I gotta wear shades baby! Suck on that, Linus Tortards.

Think different.
Think BETTER.
Think Apple!

Re:Great stuff.

[Anonymous Coward]

So I guess you didn't actually read the comments.

I don't like iPhones.....

[Anonymous Coward]

But I have nothing against gay people.

If this is the MAIL then I don't need any inputs

[Anonymous Coward]

after seeing the complete rubbish in the right hand sidebar. I realized this is a bunch of rubbish. so this is a crap repost for slashdot.

Re:With USB, charging and HID are mutually exclusi

[DarwinSurvivor]

My n810 has a software-togglable "USB-Host-Mode" that allows you to connect usb drives (acutally done this myself), serial adapters, keyboards, etc. Hell, people have connected USB 3G adapters to n810's!

Just because Apple's USB port is crap, doesn't mean USB is crap.

it's all crap

[pbjones]

the user has the power, if you don't like it, then don't buy it!

I'm sure fanboys care about this

[ToddInSF]

But the rest of us don't give a rat's ass.

Re:I'm sure fanboys care about this

[robbie73]

Oh, don't say that, all the fanbois will gather here and diss you to oblivion. Rather, join me in this overnight jerk-off party I am organizing about this piece of news!

Re:I'm sure fanboys care about this

[ToddInSF]

Only if you have the iPhone Fanboi Vibrating Jerk-Off App from the Apple AppStore...

DP in a new dress?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a thought. What if Apple has decided to repackage DisplayPort in a smaller physical package? Recent history has shown that Apple is happy to repackage an existing standard and then give the new physical design over to the standard's owner. Sort of 'standardisation by fiat' if you will.
DisplayPort supports Video, Audio, USB and CEC. Perfect for the potential needs of iPad/iPhone/iPod If you can get it into fewer lines (4 if the rumours of a reversible connector are true), it'd make sense given Apple's preexisting commitment to DP.
Only problem is that adaptors/cables would have to be active, but we've seen that already in Thunderbolt (now there's an idea, charge an iPad over Thunderbolt. TB supplies 10W, which is exactly the same as iPad's charger).

Kremlinism

[ThatsNotPudding]

Fighting and competing over publishing literal scraps of the newest Apple widget. Blury cell phone picks, plastered with watermarks like a NASCAR event... How absolutely devoid of meaning does your life have to be for you to have any interest in the nuances of a fucking I/O port?

Analog audio

[DrYak]

I think the only ones that are still used that MHL can't replace directly are analog audio line in and out

...which can be provided by a standart 3mm phone jack. (Which can also additionally pack an optical out)

Which Apple has already put on the same side as the connector !!!

If the audio jack is set at a specific constant distance from the micro USB-OTG/MHL connector, you can use matching plugs at the same distance on the dock and get the exact same functionality.

Also nowadays there are very few gadget which ARE NOT plain phones. Most of the things an MP3 player/smartphone ends up being docked with already contain a bunch of electronics, and the impact of using the micro-USB in OTG host mode and putting an USB-Audio device to carry the sound is minimal - that extra chip won't cost much (I mean, you can find USB-Audio gizmos for a few bucks in the bargain bin, and some are even given away free with expensive headphones - you really think that an USB-Audio chip will cost more that the remote controll electronics or the front knob or the blue-glowing text display ?) and the sound quality could actually improve by avoiding an analog link.
For fuck's sake most of said media stations even have USB host connectors and can stream audio from random USB storage (like a usb stick) or any smartphone/media player in USB-Drive mode.

Analog audio.

[DrYak]

Okay, take the photo of the assembled device.
Look a few mm aside from the connector.
Notice the 3mm jack? There's your analog audio.

If you need that much to have pure analog audio, you can use that. If the distance between both connector is set and constant, you can use matching plugs on the dock and get both the USB+MHL connector AND the analog jack.
The only use case I can think as an excuse for such a setup would be a pair of dumb-speaker which also work as a charging device.
For anything else the device already packs some electronics anyway and thus the added cost of an USB-Audio chip is minimal while at the same time bringing better quality by avoiding an analog link.

Re:With USB, charging and HID are mutually exclusi

[superposed]

But can you charge the phone or send out video via MHL while receiving keystrokes through the same port, as the grandparent suggested? Sending power to the host is certainly not a standard part of USB. But maybe that's the only obstacle to overcome here.

not exactly HDMI

[DrYak]

MHL provides HDMI compatible output over the connector used for microUSB

Well just to nit-pick a little bit, the MHL doesn't exactly ouput *HDMI* signals when in media mode, but its very own MHL signal instead.
The fact that you plug it directly into the TV screen is due to the fact that on the TV side too, the connector are dual purpose:
the HDMI connector can speak both MHL and HDMI, just the way that the micro-B connector can both speak USB OTG (both in host and device modes) *AND* MHL.

If you need pure HDMI signal in a small form factor, that's what micro HDMI connectors are for. (And also available on high-end devices).

BTW, appart from the digital audio and video signal, HDMI pins include IC - normally used to communicate screen configuration but can be used for pretty much anything including control or even temperature sensors (for all those who complain about the needing a dirty-cheap and dead-simple serial)
and even include Ethernet start from v1.4 of HDMI. Yup, you can even put a wired ethernet link over such a connector if that suits your crazy fucking needs.

but next to next, at very specific distance :
- a micro-B connector (to speak either USB host, USB device or MHL depending on needs)
- a 3mm hack (for those needing analog audio. Put a red LED at the bottom of it and you even get optical out, as was done on early mini discs and on cheap sound cards)
- a micro HDMI connector (which speaks simultaneously HDMI, IC and Ethernet)
use matching plugs at the same distance in the dock connector.
And you get something which completly stomps anything developed by Apple while at the same time only using 100% industry standards.

Now if you want to really go crazy, use a micro-Displayport instead of micro-HDMI and you can get even "next-decade already today" grade capabilities thanks to the embed PCIe link if said port speaks Thunderbolt/Lightpeak.
I'm curious why (besides costs for the mux chip, and the fact that the embed ARM processor doesn't have a PCIe bus, requiring some bridge chip increasing costs) Apple didn't push for *that*.
They are proponent for Thunderbolt anyway, and such a port would play the same trick that older gen iPods played for firewire.

stupid nokia and newbie engineers

[cheekyboy]

Seriously, any engineer over 35yo would have instantly noticed and said out loud, "Dude this design is shit, its worse than xbox1 sockets, stupid xgeners"

Yeah you little young geeks that probably havent used a single phone model for more than 12months, because of fast upgrade cycles.

mini HDMI?

[cheekyboy]

My camera has a custom plug, but also has miniHDMI

Now I know hdmi1.4 supports ethernet over cable.

Re:With USB, charging and HID are mutually exclusi

[DarwinSurvivor]

Unfortunately usb charging doesn't work and I've never tried MHL so I can't say either way.