Slashdot Mirror


AT&T Defends Controversial FaceTime Policy Following Widespread Backlash

zacharye writes "AT&T is wasting no time hitting back at critics of its decision to limit the use of popular video chat app FaceTime over its cellular network to users who sign up for its shared data plans. In a post on the company's official public policy blog on Wednesday, AT&T chief privacy officer Bob Quinn sneered at criticisms that restricting FaceTime over cellular to shared data plans violates the Federal Communications Commission's network neutrality rules for wireless networks."

25 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. It probably won't make a difference, but... by Given+M.+Sur · · Score: 5, Informative

    File a complaint against AT&T here: http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

    --
    nil
    1. Re:It probably won't make a difference, but... by shadowrat · · Score: 5, Insightful
    2. Re:It probably won't make a difference, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Whoosh.

      (The joke was to change cell phone carrier)

    3. Re:It probably won't make a difference, but... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

      It is typical of Ex AT&T CSR's or Reps to be a bit "special" and not able to read or communicate. Give him a break.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  2. Is anyone surprised by this? by a-zarkon! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know I'm not. They can't upgrade the infrastructure fast enough to keep up with the explosion in devices and bandwidth-hungry applications, so they rate-limit, restrict, and jack the rates on an increasingly over-subscribed (with corresponding decreases in performance) in the interest of keeping things just usable enough to not lose too many customers.

    It's not like there are a lot of alternative providers out there who offer better service or more compelling pricing....

    1. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit!
      They just don't want to bother upgrading, it is more profitable to rate limit and jack up prices.

    2. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by muon-catalyzed · · Score: 4, Informative

      AT&T actually have bigger revenue then Apple and net profit in billions of USD, they could do a whole lot better job.

    3. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Their margins are ridiculous, they could spend 2x more on infrastructure than they do and still be profitable. They need to quit blaming their own success for their horrible service, man up, and make a real investment in their network. Stupid thing is, they'd probably see their profits go up in the long term, but it might be a couple years out, maybe even *gasp* four or five before it hits break even! Inconceivable from a business prospective!

    4. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by Desler · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actaully Apple has nearly 4 times the operating income and 6 times the net income of AT&T. Gross profit is mostly a useless measure.

    5. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by berashith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is truly amazing how much more money can be made when you try to cater to what your customers want instead of screw the customer over and make them regret every penny they give you.

    6. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You misunderstand the situation. I don't want to take the blame off the cellular industry, it IS their fault... but you have to understand how the infrastructure works.

      I doubt ATT is having a problem in places like downtown chicago. There are A LOT of customers in that area, and A LOT of data infrastructure running everywhere. Data is cheap, and customers are plentiful.

      You get out to rural Montana, and to feed a cell tower it might cost you upwards of a few million dollars to run a single T1 to it. And that tower on average only serves 100 or so customers. Upgrading that tower is not profitable at all. The obvious solution is not having 4G service there. But then your biggest competitor comes along and starts splashing their map of 4G coverage all over the place... and your marketing department goes into a tizzy "WE HAVE TO SELL 4G!!!! WE LOOK LIKE CHUMPS!" then you have the feds coming in, demanding rural broadband... well crap... ok, we have 4G there. It'll only work for 4 customers at a time but it's there...

      Again, it's the industry as a wholes fault. But it's not as cut and dry as "They're just too lazy"

    7. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by oakgrove · · Score: 4, Funny

      But...but...but the Free Market (TM) is supposed to take care of all this. It must be over regulation!

      Yes, if only there were a model of a real competitive phone market somewhere that we could learn from. Possibly a magical land where it would be common for you to buy your device and get the service separately. Where if one were fed up with carrier A, they could just chuck the sim in the trash and insert one from carrier B. Imagine how cheap phones and service would be with carriers actually competing for your business!

      Yeah, I know *insert needle being scraped across record* stop dreaming and get back to work.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    8. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by jeko · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everything you just said is valid, and parallels the situation with another utility, namely the power grid. All of the arguments against why we can't have rural cell coverage were previously used to explain why we can't have a rural electrical grid.

      The answer turned out to be that government needed to set up power companies, and that utilities needed to be publicly-owned or closely watched and directed (i.e., regulated). Initiatives like the Tennessee Valley Authority meant that my grandparents got to trade in their lanterns and candles for electric lights.

      The simple fact is that there are a few core infrastructure industries that need to be either publicly-held (power, water, sanitation, mail) or kept on a very, very tight leash (Banking, see "Glass-Steagal").

      AT&T is making a very convincing case that communications infrastructure -- which was already developed and built by tax dollars -- needs to be another publicly-held infrastructure. Here's how you know this is true.

      Every time some local municipality gets together and starts putting up their own wreless network, the telecom lobbyists always descend like locusts screaming that "It's not fair to make us compete against government entities!" What they're saying is that private companies in this industry, with their need for profit, can't ever be as efficient as a public effort. All that means is that as technology has progressed, we've simply discovered another industry that operates as a classic "market failure."

         

      --
      He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
    9. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by hazydave · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, some of it is specific to AT&T.

      Back when Verizon had already completed their 3G buildout (every cell site), Cingular and AT&T Mobile were merging two different networks into a single thing. That meant replacing essentially half of the 2G TDMA (DAMPS) cells with 3G/HSPA. Then they went back and replaced/upgraded most of the HSPA with HSPA+, and now they're adding LTE. Verizon skipped all that intermediate stuff and just added LTE.

      With that said, they're both showing 40%-ish profits these days. It's hard to have too much sympathy for their sad plight, or when they screw over customers yet again, regardless of the reason.

      As for 4G, in fact, a T1 backhaul isn't sufficient for 100 connections on HSPA, much less LTE. In fact, a single T1/DS1 circuit isn't sufficient for a single HSPA backhaul. New towers are nearly always Ethernet over optical fiber or perhaps high-speed point-to-point microwave (1Gb/s backhaul over 20 miles for under $40K in gear). Only those offering only 2G access ought to still be using a single T1 link (you need 14 T1 links to properly support a 3G/HSPA cell). But I agree... the cost of upgrade some remote-ass tower (like the one near my house in South Jersey, I'm guessing) isn't particularly attractive relative to the number of users likely to hit that tower in any given day. The one loophole in that -- carriers like to have really good service along major roads, and that may provide justification enough.

      --
      -Dave Haynie
  3. That is a "defense"? by ScooterComputer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That "defense" seems to be worse than the Dallas Cowboys Defense of last year (excepting DeMarcus Ware...he's the MAN!). So AT&T -ADMITS- they're blocking capriciously and discriminatively, but then says "We're doing nothing wrong."?

    I'm not sure what violating net neutrality looks like then, in these guys' minds. So Comcast can block Hulu, that's just fine, but only allow it for their Triple Play customers, since they're trying to reduce congestion???

    BZZZZZZT! Wrong answer, jerk.

    --
    Scott
    "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
    1. Re:That is a "defense"? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What will be interesting is if they try this crap on LTE, where there are contractual obligations to not discriminate based on application usage in the Block-B spectrum they purchased. Verizon has already gone down this road with something more ambiguous (tethering) and lost. This is an actual application that they are discriminating against.

      AT&T may not be able to get away with this shit for very long before running afoul of the FCC.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  4. Heh by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Funny

    > AT&T chief privacy officer Bob Quinn sneered at criticisms

    "On retrospect, I probably should have turned off face chat before doing that."

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  5. One Big Family by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    AT&T wants to dictate how you use the data transfer you paid for by charging even more for specific applications. This plan only works if AT&T colludes with other carriers to do the same. Now we see if the industry wide collusion happens and if the government chooses to do anything about it.

  6. Does AT&T's argument hold any water? by mkraft · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know back in the day Verizon, AT&T and other providers used to get to pick and choose what built-in apps they wanted on their phones, but that's not done anymore since phones aren't really customized for carriers anymore. At least not in the case of the iPhone (other than the CDMA/GSM difference). The same built-in apps are on all iPhones, regardless of the carrier. As such the FaceTime app is being provided by Apple, not AT&T. It shouldn't make any difference whether it's built-in or downloaded. If it did, then Apple could simply add a FaceTime 3G Unlock app to the App Store and then according to AT&T's logic, AT&T would have to allow it.

    I suppose since AT&T is subsidizing iPhones, that AT&T can have some say over how things work, but how can they justify applying those same restrictions to people paying full price for the phone or no longer under contract?

    1. Re:Does AT&T's argument hold any water? by mkraft · · Score: 5, Informative

      The block is done the same way the tethering block is implemented. There's a setting in the carrier file which controls whether or not FaceTime is allowed over 3G. The processing of said file is built into the iOS and can be downloaded over the air and time the user connects to the carrier network. AT&T sets the FaceTime flag to no or yes based on user's the chosen plan. Other carriers simply set it to yes.

      For example, when I went to China with my iPhone and connected to China Mobile the tethering option suddenly became available (since China Mobile doesn't block tethering). When I got back to the U.S. and connected back to AT&T, the tethering option was disabled again (since I'm on the grandfather unlimited plan).

      Processing of the carrier file is built into iOS and it doesn't care if your phone is unlocked or not. Unless AT&T sets the FaceTime flag to true for unlocked iPhones, then you still won't be able to do FaceTime over 3G, unless you switch to a Mobile Share plan (which is a rip off if you ask me).

      To bypass this block, your iPhone would have to be jailbroken.

  7. AT&T is missing out here... by drcagn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I reading this right?

    AT&T institutes a policy that is so terrible, it has created a perception in the public that it might even be illegal. So instead of coming up with better ways to satisfy your customers, AT&T decides to defend their terrible policies by insisting "yes, this is legal!"? It's like the entire point went right over your heads. Where on Earth is your PR team?

    Your customers all know that "data is data" and there's no technical reason to disallow FaceTime on all your old plans (you know those plans all of your long-time LOYAL customers are on). Your customers know that you are simply placing arbitrary restrictions on those data plans to creating a differentiating factor in your shared data plans. We are not stupid.

    I switched to AT&T when the first iPhone was released, and I have stayed on board even after Apple has added new carriers, despite the fact that over time AT&T has gotten worse and worse about my unlimited data plan. Apple and the extremely Apple loyal fanbase has helped AT&T in creating the near-duopoly mobile carrier market we have today. Apple hit it big with the iPhone because, like all of their products, they go above and beyond to make elegant products, take care of their customers in any way they can, and foster the greatest experiences possible for their platform. If you provided the same experience as a carrier, you would have the iPhone market completely cornered. But instead you sacrifice all that potential just to squeeze more money out of the people who remain on your network. That's poor planning and, simply put, you're all stupid for it.

    --
    Scorta futuere amo!
  8. Does not compute by quacking+duck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Their thinking simply doesn't make any sense.

    - Androids are outselling iPhones (globally, maybe not AT&T specifically)
    - iPhones currently don't have real 4G, which is over 3x faster than 3G on AT&T's network
    - Android users now consume more data, faster, and put more strain on the wireless network at any given time, compared to iPhone users
    - Skype is available on all major platforms and works over even 3G; quality is surely better on 4G/LTE.

    And yet, they're blocking Facetime "out of an overriding concern for the impact this expansion may have on our network and the overall customer experience"??

    Logic fail, AT&T. Just admit you're being greedy bastards and think iPhone users are more easily ripped off, that way you'll just be extortionists without also being liars.

  9. Re:AT&T. Never had 'em, never will by Analog+Penguin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The controversy is that this is the latest in a long line of examples of AT&T bitching about people overburdening their poor network with their evil data-hogging ways instead of spending a goddamn dime to upgrade it from its current twine-and-tin-can infrastructure into something that can handle the needs of a 21st-century world superpower.

  10. Mr. Quinn's argument is ridiculous by swillden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I read the response to the question of whether AT&T's action violates net neutrality requirements... and any shyster lawyer would be proud of the crazy hair-splitting Quinn uses to justify his position that it does not.

    His argument basically boils down to a claim that it's not a violation of net neutrality for AT&T to block the FaceTime traffic because -- get this -- the app comes pre-installed. He states that if the app were installed from the app store and AT&T were then to block it, that would be a violation of net neutrality. He even points out that there are other video chat apps available on the app store which can be used over AT&T's cellular network (though he refuses to mention Google+ Hangouts directly).

    What makes it all really obnoxious is that he then tries to paint this lawyerly hair-splitting as a reasonable position. It is perhaps possible that he's actually right that AT&T's actions satisfy the letter of the FTC net neutrality regulation. But nobody with a brain can believe that it actually makes sense.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:Mr. Quinn's argument is ridiculous by zzsmirkzz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      because -- get this -- the app comes pre-installed.

      My thoughts are that since it is pre-installed, was advertised as a feature of the phone purchased and the cellular service contract that blocking it constitutes false advertising, bait-and-switch and the like. Cue the lawsuits!