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Ask Slashdot: What Should a Unix Fan Look For In a Windows Expert?
andy5555 writes "I am hardcore Unix (and recently storage) fan responsible for our server department. Most of the servers run (you guessed it) different types of Unix. For quite a long time, Windows servers played very little role, but sometimes we get applications from our business departments which run only under Windows. So it seems that we have to take it seriously and hire a few Windows fans who would be able to take care of the (still small but growing) number of Windows servers. Since I am Unix fan, I have very little knowledge of Windows (some of my teammates may have more, but we are not experts). If I have to hire such a person I would like to find someone who is passionate about Windows. It is easy for me to recognize a Windows fan, but I don't know how to test his/her knowledge. There are some sites with typical Windows interview questions, but everybody can read them and prepare. How would you recommend the hiring process to proceed? What should I ask?"
When looking for a Windows expert you have to look past the first appearance. I am a hardcore tomato sauce fan. And when I say hardcore, I mean it. Tomato sauce is the base of any pizza we all so like. But beyond that Windows admin can look almost anything, and still be completely usable. Just like your favorite pan pizza.
The best way to illustrate differences between Windows and UNIX admins is the way they use space. The base of the system is usually laid out differently. In UNIX you have / whereas in Windows you use C:\ and other drive letters. It's like the difference between normal italian style pizza and american pan pizza.
Let me tell you a story about a friend from my childhood. He loves Linux. You could say he is Linux power user. Back in the 90's I was over his apartment and we kept playing this Nintendo64 game called GoldenEye. It was awesome. Split-screen multiplayer and even while we could see each other, we still loved it. The levels were laid out beatifically and played out very nicely.
But at some point you obviously become hungry. Then I got an idea.. "Let's call some pizzas over!", I uttered and tried to reach to the phone. However, it was way too far. I crashed down from the couch and now I was rolling around on the floor. My stomach was so big and soft that it kept me in motion and I rolled over the table where the telephone was, crashing it on the floor and breaking it. I said "damn it".. And we didn't get any pizza until we went out in the open. But we still did it, proudly. We were the goldeneye playing pizza bros!
I think the main point is that whatever obstacles you may find with your new friend there is always way to get around them. With pizza.
I'm not sure how you should start the interview. But I'm pretty sure starting it off by taking a holier-than-thou condescending attitude towards anyone who would sully themselves by being a Windows server admin, and referring to them as a Windows "fan" instead of a Windows professional, is definitely the way to NOT start the interview.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of professionals out there with significant admin experience with both Unix and Windows. Being a Windows professional doesn't make you some sort of dirt-eating Tauron, nor does it necessarily make you a "fan" who's chosen his side in some nerd-rage fight to the death.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Timothy, go to your room! Don't come down until you've thought about what you've done!
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Stop posting so much stuff inside parenthesis! If it's a complete thought, just make another sentence. It's not difficult.
Someone who has exp with multiple versions of windows servers. 2000 is a good cutoff point. They should understand Active Directory. Thoroughly. If doing anything web based, know about asp and .net configurations, as well as how to use the new (awful) IIS manager. If storing dll components for software over the network (including aforementioned web based stuff), they should know about permissions hassles of trusting policies from network drives.
Exchange and or MS SQL experience is also a plus, but only if the windows boxes will be running them.
The answers I ask when hiring a system admin are typically not OS or vendor specific. I'd rather have someone intelligent and clever, who can then pick up any technology thrown at them. This philosophy has worked incredibly well. But, if you want someone that has memorized the MCSE tests, then ask the Windows-specific questions. But when it comes to troubleshooting or real-world environments, you have no guarantees.
What is this 'fan' shit? You want to hire someone who has studied Windows architecture and know how it works. Not someone who wants to blow the OS.
then it's pretty probable they'll end up with some unix guy who also just happens to like gaming and has a windows side affair. I mean, pure-windows guys aren't that likely to know how it works, those are the guys to go for if you want arguments about if windows server kernels are meaningfully different than regular windows line kernels or if ms just raised an arbitrary connection limit on them.
otoh. I heard delta makes good fans, but I read also somewhere that steelers fans are awful.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Ask him about a Windows problem. If he says "Have you tried turning it off and back on again", hire him.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
There's plenty of Windows people who know how to click "Next... Next... Next..." but no more than this.
Well and good if that's all you need, but you'll get someone a lot more productive if they know a bit of Powershell, VBS and batch scripting.
Ask him if he know:
1) How to use regedit.exe
2) What is a GPO
3) DCOM
4) WMI(this shit will help a lot if you need his help on monitoring)
5) WSUS, ISA and PowerShell
--- and you will obtain a medium-level professional --
And will filter 80% of the Windows guys on your "audition"
Find someone who understands how things work & why they work; there are tens of thousands of Windows admins with MCSE (now MCITP) grade qualifications who don't actually understand why they do any of the things they do, just that Action A fixes Problem B. Also, find someone who can script - Powershell preferably, but VBS if you have to - as a lot of Windows admins are far too reliant on the GUI which can obviously slow them down a lot for some types of tasks.
Don't bother asking questions to test Windows "knowledge" because they don't really tell you much about the person's ability, just their memory. Give them scenarios you've encountered with your Windows estate and ask them how they'd deal with them; you don't even really need to know that much about Windows yourself to be able to judge answers to those kinds of questions and they give you a much better idea of how well the person actually understands Windows, which is much more important than reciting the FSMO roles or knowing how to do an Authoritative Restore.
Find someone who is competetent at Unix system administration and willing to learn. Regardless of current Windows knowledge, it's more likely she will be able to learn the nuances necessary in a heterogenous environment than the average Windows admin.
There is no aspect, no facet, no moment of life that can't be improved with pizza. Thank you.
Find someone who goes both ways or he/she will be constantly running around behind your back lobbying for more windows machines.
I sort of agree with this. A dedicated Windows Admin will probably want to excel at what they are good at, instead of being the guy who has to work on the bastard child of the UNIX group. However, many UNIX admins have had to deal with Windows in the past, and should be able to operate Windows without too much trouble.
What you might want to do is get someone who is interested enough on your team to do what it takes to get access to the Microsoft support infrastructure. It may mean getting them some MCP certification or something. I think that the certs are useless themselves, but there are some benefits you may need one of them to get access to. From there, I'd just follow MS suggested default guidelines for operating their OS and have your admins keep track of any patches or whatever than needs to come out.
There are some very competent Windows admins out there, but as a group, there is a lot of the cert mill types out there too. You don't want someone like that, and the good admins will probably want to stay in Windows shops.
From my experience, as long as the most you need is a basic setup of a domain or something, you don't need "Windows People" to do that. Your UNIX admins are more than capable of figuring it out with some tutorials and a copy of best practices. Although Windows servers are anything but easy to administer, they do have the advantage of being written with a GUI that is very similar to the Desktop OS from the ground up, and so a smart tech should be able to figure out how to get around without needing to memorize command line stuff.
1. Kernel name of Windows 7 (NT6.1);
2. Why is file transfer since Vista so slow (introduction of user space driver)
3. Why is Windows 7 faster than Vista (it is not; gui has higher sceduling priority)
4. How much more ram does Vista consume, compared with XP? (wrong; it's less, but why?; Vista caches like preload).
5. Is NT POSIX compliant? Since when and how?
6. What is the main difference between the TCP/IP stack in XP and Vista, other than IPv6?
7. What compiler does Microsoft use, to compile Windows? (not the one they make, hint)
8. Ask something about Powershell
9. Difference between win32 and winRT;
10. Is NT a Microkernel or monolithic (microkernel with servers in kernelspace)
11. Is NT x86 only? (also ppc and titanium and arm)
12. Was Win32 the only planned API to support and why (NT was designed to support a lot more API's, so it could embrace, extend and extinguish)
13. What is the name of the DE? (explore.exe, there are other DE's and shells. Aero, the 3D explore.exe since Vista also supports plugins for desktop effects, like Compiz, since Vista).
Goog-... DuckDuckGo your ass off, I'd say ;-)
Here be signatures
You will be faced with a lot of candidates. After you've culled the ones with actual experience and positive or neutral recommendations, this is where you can start in phone interviews:
1. Ask them to describe DHCP. An amazing number of candidates will not do well with this. Extra points for the ones who can expand slightly and describe the implications of static addressing, but they are probably older than you are l;ooking for, despite the blatant discrimination that implies. Deduct for those who treat this question with disdain - they are perhaps being too imperious to get along, and getting along is second only to knowing stuff. Maybe more important.
2. Ask them to discuss Active Directory design from a high level, the forest and trees, for example. Big points if they ask about your current structure. More points if they discuss the disadvantages of ripping up your current directory. Deduct points for those who seem to use an axe in the forest. You willl know.
3. Ask them about roaming profiles. No, you aren't using them, but you're interested in both their general reaction and their questions about why you are asking at all. Deduct points here for those who go 'poo-poo' and describe their loathing for roaming profiles. More deductions for focusing on the limitations.
4. Did any of them ask about your environment? Did any of them perk up at the mention of Linux? Did any of them expand unprovked about Windows' servers potential for integration with a Linux enviuronemnt? More points to these. Fewer points to those who are not at all curious about yoru Linux environment, and how you got saddled with some mongrel Windows severs in the mix.
I would be very interested in this position if it is in the Phoenix area, but I love my pool, and besides, you already know me too well. Ah.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I disagree with those who say you should "stay away" from people with certifications. Perhaps that was true in the MCSE days because anybody could get one, but the competency tests they have nowadays are very thorough and are geared towards one specific subject. Therefore if the person has several of those competencies they probably know what the hell they're talking about such as Server Platform, Hosting, Mobility, Management and Virtualization, etc. You just have to look at what tests they have passed and whether or not it is relevant to what you need. I've seen pseudo experienced Windows Server Admins with no certifications or any clue how to apply MS best practices completely destroy a server. Like not using proper document redirection or storing user data from a Terminal Server stored on the C drive, etc.
I've never been one to prefer MS servers, but you are correct, sometimes it is essential when you deal with clients that use certain line of business applications and it really helps to get a technician that is familiar with administrative best practices. You also tend to learn more about how to use MS products in a business environment when you take the cert tests and how to sell their products. It's not just turning the server on and screwing around with stuff until everything works. You will save yourself time and money when you get a guy that can get the work done quickly.
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
As inane as the question is, I can think of a pretty good answer: ask if they like PowerShell!
It tests several things that someone from a UNIX background would want to see in a Windows administrator: it shows that they like CLI and automation, it shows that they're up-to-date with Windows technology, and it shows that they prefer the "UNIX way". That last may seem counter-intuitive, but PowerShell follows the UNIX philosophy better than any flavor of Linux or UNIX I've ever seen. A Windows administrator that likes PowerShell is the kind of administrator that a UNIX administrator can get along with!
Whether it's Windows, Linux, VMS or ESXi doesn't really matter. The external differences boil down to syntax. If you find somebody who only knows the syntax, you're not going to be happy unless you're looking for a short term employee or contractor. You don't hire a Unix admin because he knows how to write a bash script - you find somebody who understands the importance of automation, the ability to document and test, and the ability to pick up new technologies. You know technology is changing so you need a person who can adapt. If you can troubleshoot the root cause of a system crash, it doesn't matter what OS you're working on and you'll pick up a different OS quickly. But hire an idiot that can't troubleshoot worth a darn and it doesn't matter if he's an RHCE, MCSE or VCP or holds all three.
If you find somebody that can't tell the difference between they're, there, or their or between its and it's, he's not on the learning curve you need him to be on. It means that in 20 or 30 years, he still doesn't care about quality and is too lazy to look things up. Those aren't good combinations.
Religiosity in Operating Systems is a character flaw, not a strength. Clearly this is going to be a hard concept for you to work your head around because you yourself are evangelical about UNIX. If you find somebody who is evangelical about Windiows, you're basically asking for interpersonal conflict as this engineer with "passion" for Windows is going to feel outnumbered and isolated if your whole team uses emotional language like you do.
What you' are REALLY looking for are skills and atrributes that are OS-agnostic while still demonstrating serious practical experience with Microsoft server products:
If you don't feel comfortable saying "yes" to all the above questions, then all the nuts and bolts technical stuff means nothing. Once these fundamental questions have been answered, there are some specific technical avenues to explore with your future Windows sysadmin:
There are a bunch of technical questions you probably need to ask that I can't possibly suggest to you, because I don't know the details of your envirionment. But these two are mandatory. Powershell is a scripting language developed to handle all kinds of administrative and automation needs for a system administrator, and it was written by two UNIX guys. If your future Windows admin understands and appreciates Powershell, they not only have a skillset that is going to be demonstratably useful in the future, they will be more likely to "think like a UNIX guy" than someone who went to an MSCE puppy mill. The AD/LDAP integration question is the one thing I know about your environment. If you're going to operate UNIX and Windows servers in the same ecossytem, some level of integration is inevitable and making sure the guy on the Windows end has the technical chops is essential.
A good Windows admin will "work around" the Windows-ism of it all and use the more UNIX-y features of it (they won't think of it that way, but they will). See how they are at whipping up quick VB or PowerShell scripts to do some little task (the same way you would whip up a Perl or Bash script). Check their problem-diagnosis skills - give them a hypothetical scenario (some weird proprietary service isn't starting at boot) and keep throwing up obstacles ("Guy: Well, I would check the services panel, make sure it was set to start automatically"; "You: Alright, you check that, and it is set to, but it's marked as 'stopped' and halts as soon as you try to start it"). Eventually he'll give up and say "there's obviously something wrong that's beyond my ability to fix, I would have to contact their support people", but see how many things he can think of to check. If he can think of a lot of ways something can go wrong, he likely has both experience and wisdom (unless he's rattling off bullshit, of course).
Another thing to look at is his WindowsUNIX skills. I'm working on a project now that involves getting applications running on both to work with each other, and that's not easy. Having a Windows guy who can grok Unix-speak would definitely be a plus for you.
Your comment isn't getting any replies. Perhaps try closing with a personalized question - like, "Does ending YOUR crappy blog with a question get more people to respond?" That will help you to facilitate enhanced social media 2.0 engagement and boost your Klout score!
By this logic, any of the current Unix experts they employ would also be the right people for the Windows server support, yet clearly they already know that isn't the solution. Here the OS distinction matters, because they want to hire based on that distinction (and for good reason). If you're hiring your first admin, you might want them to use any technology thrown at them. By the time you employ several experts in one area but lack experts in a new area, you're better off getting people with expertise in that new area.
Do you want someone who is passionate about windows, or a decent Windows Admin ( or indeed, a decent admin in general )?
I'll tell you right now, I am always highly suspicious of any admin that is "passionate" about their subject matter. They tend to put their bias first, compromising their ability to deliver the best product available.
The best admins I have ever worked with were technology agnostic; they chose the best tools for the job, regardless of their own preferences.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I have a window fan in my front room. I run it at night to pull cool air in through my bedroom and apartment. I'd recommend Lasko Reversible 2155, and put it in a window far from your bedroom and put in in exhaust mode. Close all the windows except your bedroom window and you'll have a nice cool night breeze coming in your window without the noise of a fan next to your bed.
I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would need a server running Unix to operate a simple window fan. Am I missing something here?
-- QED
Make sure he can beat expert in less than 90 seconds. Only then can you be sure he has enough years of experience with Windows.
my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
Ask them what kinds of scripting languages Windows supports (Powershell, VB, JS etc), what does WMI do? How would you deploy a printer using policies?
A LOT of Windows admins know how to call for help and push buttons, but not so many know the backend stuff that makes Windows tick which is kinda invaluable as an admin.
Also know Unix.