Did Sweden Pay Cambodia For the Pirate Bay Co-founder?

An anonymous reader writes "At the start of this month, news broke that The Pirate Bay co-founder Gottfrid Svartholm had been arrested in Cambodia. A bunch of updates followed, including that Svartholm would be deported to Sweden, and that the two countries of course collaborated on his capture. The latest tidbit, as of today, is the craziest one yet: Sweden essentially paid Cambodia tens of millions of dollars. The Government of Sweden has agreed to give 400 million Swedish Kronor ($59.4 million) to Cambodia for various reasons, including democratic development, human rights, education, environment protection, climate change, sustainable development, and poverty reduction. You name it (just don't say international arrests)."

Comments

Damn Neutrals

[gijoel]

What makes a man turn neutral Kiff? Is it lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutral?

Re:Damn Neutrals

[Anonymous Coward]

NEUTRALITY

Re:Damn Neutrals

[lordholm]

Sweden is not neutral. Sweden has had a policy of being non-aligned in order to keep the ability of being neutral in the case of war. Sweden was never de-jure recognised as neutral. Although to some, Sweden, may be seen as de-facto neutral, the actual fact is that Sweden has been involved in numerous armed conflicts during the last century. In WWII Sweden who stayed outside of the main conflict, sided with Finland and even sent troops, both air force and army (including officers) that took part in combat operations, all-though technically they where sorted under Finnish flag, the fact is that they where endorsed by Sweden, how also sent over lots of arms.

In addition to this, Sweden has been a member of the EU since the 1990s, and even though the EU did not have mutual defence guarantees until the Lisbon treaty, the fact is that no EU state would remain neutral in the case of another one being attacked.

Sweden has also removed "neutrality" from their foreign policy documents. So, it has not been neutral nether de-facto or de-jure since before WWII. And especially, given the membership of the Union, the old motto of "non alignment in order to be able to be neutral in the case of war" has not been true for 20 years.

Re:Damn Neutrals

[Anonymous Coward]

*neutrality

Re:Damn Neutrals

[Anonymous Coward]

As a swedish person, I can say that Sweden is equally afraid of USA as of its opponents.

We usually try to find the path of peace, which means appeasing different sides at different times. This is of course not popular with everyone.

But we have not been in war for over 200 years, so we do something right.

Re:Damn Neutrals

[Anonymous Coward]

All I know is my heart says maybe.

Re:Damn Neutrals

[lordholm]

Define war... Sweden has not been invaded during the last 200 years, but the Swedish army has certainly seen action outside of Sweden.

For example:

1800s: Sweden pays for and sends troops to assist the Danish against Germany (the Danes surrender before the troops get into action though).
WWII: Sweden pays for and sends troops to fight for the Finnish against the Soviets.
Congo: Sweden sends troops under EU flag to take part of operation Artemis. They are involved in heavy fighting.
Afghanistan: Sweden pays for and sends troops that have been involved with relatively heavy combat operations.

Swedish neutrality and non-belligerence is a myth.

Greased palms

[flyingfsck]

Well, that kind of money should reduce the poverty of one or two government officials...

Re:Greased palms

[Pecisk]

You really don't have a clue what strings come with Swedish (or other Northern Europe) money attached.

Re:Greased palms

[Mr. Wok]

Or what kind of strings Sweden wears

Re:Greased palms

[Anonymous Coward]

You really don't have a clue what strings come with Swedish (or other Northern Europe) money attached.

Ones that can very easily be ignored without consequences?

Re:Greased palms

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> "Sweden has agreed to give 400 million Swedish Kronor
> ($59.4 million) to Cambodia for various reasons, including
> democratic development, human rights, education,
> environment protection, climate change, sustainable
> development, and poverty reduction"

Yes, yes, we know. All kinds of things from which one can siphon off the bribe which was the real intent.

Conspiracy or not

[Isbiten]

I highly doubt that the Swedish government would have such a great interest in Svartholm that they would pay to get him extradited. Also how much aid was given to Cambodia before Svartholm was arrested? Unless that figure was close to zero I fail to see how Sweden payed for his extradition.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't read Khmer but on page 2 of this PDF document there's a table of what looks like some or all aid provided by Sweden to Cambodia over the past few years.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know how much Sweden give as aid to Cambodia normally, but the Swedish government spend several hundred times more per capita in international aid then US do both as government aid and as given by people and non-governmental organisations, add to that, Swedes privately gives as much per capita in charity as the US population gives privately per capita (this is of course comparing bananas to apples, since most US charity is done for tax purposes and is highly ineffective as anything but constructions to avoid tax), most of the charity in US is donated by a handful of people, while the Swedes have an even distribution of giving charity among the population (poorer Swedish people give, proportional to their income, considerably more then rich people in charity, on the other hand, low income receivers in Sweden have an income comparable to the lower middle class in US).

This of course means that many governmentss, and people, around the world, act very favourable towards the Swedish government and Swedish people (heck, older Dutch people still loves us passionately for the aid we gave during just a couple of critical months in 1944, and older Greeks and Turks still loves us for the aid (and political refugee) we gave during their junta regimes and in the development after the juntas (meanwhile, the US governemnt aided the Greek and Turkish junta to oppress (and kill, torture, imprison, starve et c.) the common people)). Being a Swede on a trip abroad is usually really nice compared to being of some other nationality (cough, USian) visiting that same area. Another source of the strong Swedophilia around the world, is that until a few years ago, the Swedish educational system was open to, and free of cost, to anyone applying from around the world, and accepted students purely based on academic merits. Unfortunately, this practise was not allowed within EU and discontinued some years after Sweden joined EU. Interesting in this case is that many higher government officials and bureaucrats in influential African countries have received their education in Sweden.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

As the article does not give away any source I cannot find exactly who or what in sweden that pays out the money, or why.
I can see the numbers on SIDA (Swedish foreign Aid) which shows that Sweden have been given between 100 and 200 Million SEK to Cambodia the last few years;
http://www.openaid.se/countries

Currently it shows "only" 138 MSEK for 2012 so I am not sure if the money goes through SIDA (as it should) or if the page is slow to update, but as the article does not mention any sources I find it hard to make anything out of it.
A random blogpost without proper quotation is unfortunately not the best news source.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course they did not pay, the thought is absurd. Then again, if Cambodia gets regular aid from Sweden they have an interrest in not upsetting Sweden, which might make them more cooperative.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I found http://www.openaid.se/countries/kambodja which claims to show the aid given to Cambodia since 1980. I don't know if there's an English version of the page.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

According to http://www.openaid.se/countries/kambodja Sweden gave 2011 184 million SEK in total. This year they've given 138 million in and promised 300 million SEK 2012-2015 for "Democracy development" which is an up from 2011 where they gave 175 million SEK for that. That alone is an up of 125 million SEK (300-175) but less per year average than 2011-2012 (175-100).

I think they decided to continue the "democracy development program" and invest another 100 million SEK/year in the program for 3 years. If anything this is the bribe. To be sure about this, one has to access the program records, achievements, look at the goals and when the program was intended to end. That is to see if anything changed between 2010 and 2012.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweden is a US collaborator on torture - sorry 'extraordinary rendition'. The Swedish prime minister is best buddies with Karl Rove. Enough of a clue?

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Mr. Wok]

It's beyond stupid to suggest that Sweden paid Cambodia for TPB admin. Why would they do that? It's not personal. And this is Cambodia we're talking about. There would be no need to pay $40 million to the whole government, just a little to one or two people with connections to immigration office.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Pav]

This story is spreading circumstantial evidence very thin, and is definitely on the other side of the "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" boundary. In the Assange case there are so many strange facts that the burden of proof has been shifted... not so here.

I WOULD say it's possible though. It's not like the Swedish administration isn't hiring an ex Bush administration official who resigned under a cloud after trying to corrupt US Department of Justice.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Zemran]

Total previous budget 3.5 million SEK, new budget for today 400 million SEK - no anomaly there...

Re:Conspiracy or not

[clarkkent09]

Between defeating the Communist block, rebuilding the western Europe, including Germany, as well as Japan after the WWII and then protecting them militarily (as well as many other countries, S. Korea, Israel, etc etc) for over 50 years, thwarting countless dictators and having an instrumental and unique role (unfortunately without much help from Europeans) in transforming the world from the one in which majority of people lived under dictatorships, only a few decades back, to the current world in which majority of people live in freedom, the US has benefited the world in more ways than any single country in history. Not to mention providing a shining example of 250 years of unbroken stable, free, democratic government, while various European countries lurched from absolute monarchies, to fascism (in Spain and Greece into the 1970s) and communism (in half of Europe into the 1990s). You and the other psychotically anti-US Europeans are a bunch of ungrateful cunts even if you are too ignorant too realize it.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

In the Assange case there are so many strange facts that the burden of proof has been shifted... not so here.

I assume that you haven't had time to read up on the way the Pirate Bay trial was handled. (Police paid by Warner Brothers, Judge part of a pro-copyright organization, takedown requested by government officials and a lot more neat stuff.)

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

It's RIAA, MPAA money of course.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[ByronHope]

The South Americans may disagree with your version of history...

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

[citation needed]
According to SIDA the Swedish government have given between 100 and 200 million SEK, yearly the last few years.
Please let us know where you get the number 3.5 million SEK from.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[AlterEager]

Another source of the strong Swedophilia around the world, is that until a few years ago, the Swedish educational system was open to, and free of cost, to anyone applying from around the world, and accepted students purely based on academic merits. Unfortunately, this practise was not allowed within EU and discontinued some years after Sweden joined EU.

Uh?

Got some kind of source for this 'cos I can't imagine what rule would do that.

The EU insists that member states treat EU citizens no worse than citizens of the state. It says nothing about how non EU citizens are treated.

Sounds like a straight banana story to me.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[t0p]

It's beyond stupid to suggest that Sweden paid Cambodia for TPB admin. Why would they do that? It's not personal. And this is Cambodia we're talking about. There would be no need to pay $40 million to the whole government, just a little to one or two people with connections to immigration office.

OMFG you think this isn't personal?!! I suppose all the Assange-hating isn't personal either.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[t0p]

Sweden initially told the USA that TPB weren't actually breaking the law. It was only after much being leaned on and loudly whispered at that Sweden suddenly discovered that, oh my gosh, TPB really were breaking the law after all. There's a lot of stuff going on under the table between the USA and Sweden.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[emj]

Total previous budget 3.5 million SEK, new budget for today 400 million SEK - no anomaly there...

Sweden has give 150 million crowns per year to Cambodja for the last 20 years.. We pay a lot in foreign aid, and yes it's done to further political agendas set by politicians in Sweden, but only in broad guidelines such as help democratic movement by educating the opposition as well as the leading parties. E.g. I know the there have been a lot of work done in teaching how TOR works.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Up until the last sentance this was a reasoned if not entirely complete, weel informed or accurate opinion. The last sentance's gross generalisation is enough to complete destroy any sympathy I had for the rest of the comment.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Toksnok]

The 400 million SEK it for a period of 2 years.

From the press release

"The Agreement covers the period 2012-2013. The Swedish support for the two-year –period will amount to SEK 400 million (approx. 40 million euros or 57 million US dollars)."

Just slightly more than the 180 million SEK they gave in 2011.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

... thwarting countless dictators and having an instrumental and unique role (unfortunately without much help from Europeans) in transforming the world from the one in which majority of people lived under dictatorships, only a few decades back, ....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! *catching breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Signed, a Southamerican

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

E.g. I know the there have been a lot of work done in teaching how TOR works.

OMG, they're teaching them how to watch kiddie porn?!

Re:Conspiracy or not

[gnasher719]

OMFG you think this isn't personal?!! I suppose all the Assange-hating isn't personal either.

All this extradition will achieve is that someone will go to a Swedish jail for a rather short time, and I'm sure there are many places in the world that are worse than a jail in Sweden.

In the case of Assange, he is in the public eye which is why we hear all these things, he is accused by two women of rape in Sweden, was supposed to meet the police for questioning (which in Sweden happens before you are charged, while in other countries you are first charged with a crime and then questioned), fled the country to the UK, was on bail while fighting an extradition order, violated his bail conditions by moving to the Ecuadorian embassy, which I believe is in itself a crime, plus the bail money that his supporters put up is now gone, and now Ecuadorian tax payers pay to feed him and give him a place to sleep. I can't see any particular hating here, everything happening to him is a normal consequence of his actions.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Rei]

OMFG you think this isn't personal?!! I suppose all the Assange-hating isn't personal either.

Yeah, it's not like two people said he raped them or anything. It's clearly all part of a giant circituous plot to have him go back to Sweden where he'll have to go through the Swedish courts, the British courts, the Swedish government, the British government, and the EHCR, all of which are tasked by European law with not extraditing where there's a risk of the death penalty, human rights abuses, or political persecution, where the EHCR's only job (which it enforces stringently) is to do that, and where the Swedish courts and government are also tasked by law not to extradite on military or intelligence manners. Instead of, you know, just simply having him extradited when he (famous for international jetsetting) landed in a friendly non-European country with no restrictions on extradition. No, the former makes soooo much more sense.

Oh, and remember, famous people never let their fame go to their head and never commit crimes. Any crime accused of a famous person is automatically a set-up.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Rei]

So it's an increase of 25%. Which can only mean one thing, according to the rules of Slashdot:

CONSPIRACY!!!!

Hehe ;)

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Rei]

Right. Once incident 11 years ago means that the entire nation of Sweden is the Central Repository of Evil.

BTW, you know that Sweden was revealed to have refused to work with the US anymore after the details of that case came out (that the people reported to be convicted terrorists were not), right? You remember who leaked that information that they stopped cooperating?

Wikileaks.

Anyway, overall, Sweden has an excellent judicial fairness rating. Number one in the world in fundamental rights, and it's lowest ranking, #7, was for letting suspects off the hook too easily.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[lordholm]

---
"Another source of the strong Swedophilia around the world, is that until a few years ago, the Swedish educational system was open to, and free of cost, to anyone applying from around the world, and accepted students purely based on academic merits. Unfortunately, this practise was not allowed within EU and discontinued some years after Sweden joined EU. Interesting in this case is that many higher government officials and bureaucrats in influential African countries have received their education in Sweden."
---

The EU doesn't give shit about whether or not education is free for non-EU students. They do however mandate that all EU students are treated identically to the national students. The government introduced tuition fees for non EU citizens as the educational system was being strained by especially Chinese students who did not pay for their studies, essentially costing the local taxpayer's money. This tuition fees for non EU students was not mandated by the EU. However, the EU does make the rule that if you provide free education for your own citizens, then it must also be free for all EU-citizens.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[lordholm]

Yes, the GP is out smoking bananas. The Union doesn't give shit in wether a memberstate charges tuition fees or not for non EU nationals. As you say, if education is free for you own citizens, then it must be free for all EU citizens.

The Swedish government did realise that they where paying a lot of money to educate especially Chinese students who were there for free, and the Swedish tax payers did not recover the costs. This is why tuition fees where introduced for non EU students at Universities in Sweden, the EU had nothing to do with it.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[DarkOx]

since most US charity is done for tax purposes and is highly ineffective as anything but constructions to avoid tax

That is just crazy talk. In the US you get to write charitable gifts off against income, not your final tax bill.

So most filers are a per dollar basis will be in the situation that $Gift $TaxSavings. There may be some corner cases where you are right on the cusp of a tax bracket and a large value for $Gift might push you down into the next lowest bracket. That might bring $Gift and $TaxSavings much closer together, it might even invert the relationship, but its still very unlikely to be significant source of savings.

If anything many people do give because they'd rather support some organization they see as doing good, rather than our Government, which will probably use the money to violate the 4th Amendment rights of your friends and neighbors, kill some brown skin toned people on the other side of the planet, conduct some social experiment many find unethical, etc. Actually I mostly feel guilty paying taxes. I love my country but I think we may have crossed the line where actions directly attributable to Washington amount to more harm than good. I am all for "Stave the Beast."

 

Re:Conspiracy or not

[MoellerPlesset2]

In the Assange case there are so many strange facts that the burden of proof has been shifted.

Why are these "strange facts" then only apparent to ardent Wikileaks supporters, with no working knowledge of Sweden or the Swedish legal system, and a quite selective and distorted set of 'facts'? It'd be a huge scandal (and a violation of the constitution, et cetera) if his prosecution was actually "ordered" at the political/cabinet level. But there isn't one. Now either you could conclude that Swedes don't know what's going on in their country as well as you do, or you could perhaps wonder if you've gotten the whole picture.

It's not like the Swedish administration isn't hiring an ex Bush administration official

They're not. What happened was that two years ago, Rove visited Sweden for a few days, invited by some TV-production company. In 2008 he also visited a few days on the invitation of a Swedish right-wing think-tank. (and prior to that, he'd been in the country some time during the 1980) Without any evidence or justification, that got turned into him an unusubstantiated claim he was 'consulting' for Reinfeldt, from this American left-winger in Sweden, Brian Palmer. Which was then picked up by Amy Goodman (also revealing that Sweden has a big munitions industry. Who knew? Well, everyone in Sweden at least) From there, it becomes a source for your Huffington Post story. Where's the actual evidence?
There's pretty good reason to ask for the evidence, because the Swedish right-wing is substantially to the left of even most Democrats in the US. (true of Europe in general but Sweden in particular) Swedish PM Reinfeldt (who's a centrist within his own party) made no secret of supporting Obama in 2008. Perhaps more importantly, they wouldn't have any good reason to hire Rove as a consultant in the first place. He has no in-depth knowledge of Swedish politics, society or political culture. He simply wouldn't have any useful advice to give, either on policy or strategy. It's absurd. Rove would be as useless to Reinfeldt as Reinfeldt would be in advising Romney. Add to that, the reason why the Reinfeldt won in 2010 wasn't because they used any dirty, 'Rovian' tactics. Anyone who knows Sweden will tell you why they won: Because the Social Democrats were lead by Mona Sahlin, the least popular leader of that party in living memory (with the possible exception of her short-lived successor Juholt, who never saw an election campaign). Of course, if you believe Julian Assange, he's claimed to have 'cables' (e.g. Rolling Stone interview last January), showing that Rove is the best-buddy of Swedish foreign minister Bildt, and Bildt has also worked as a "CIA informant". Said cables have failed to materialize since. (which wouldn't be the first time Assange talked about leaks that never turned up, btw).

In this case it's just a ridiculous example of post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc. Sweden's been giving aid to Cambodia to decades. This aid deal was has been in the works for months if not years (and publicized quite a long time ago). There's nothing unusual about it at all. It's also absurd to think any country would pay that kind of money to get back someone who'd been sentenced to one year in prison (and for a non-violent crime as well). This guy is far from the only Swedish fugitive in the world, and far from the "Most Wanted" as well. On top of all that: There's no real reason at all why Cambodia would actually refuse to hand him over in the first place! Lack of an extradition treaty has never meant they won't extradite you. (Given that he's apparently fallen into some heavy drug abuse now, they may well be glad to get rid of him)

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's not like two people said he raped them or anything.

Yes, it's not like that. Assange had consensual sex with both of them and the condom slipped. In Sweden that's considered "rape". Read about how one of the girls bragged about meeting with Assange on Facebook afterwards.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[metacell]

Between defeating the Communist block, rebuilding the western Europe, including Germany, as well as Japan after the WWII and then protecting them militarily (as well as many other countries, S. Korea, Israel, etc etc) for over 50 years, thwarting countless dictators and having an instrumental and unique role (unfortunately without much help from Europeans) in transforming the world from the one in which majority of people lived under dictatorships, only a few decades back, to the current world in which majority of people live in freedom, the US has benefited the world in more ways than any single country in history. Not to mention providing a shining example of 250 years of unbroken stable, free, democratic government, while various European countries lurched from absolute monarchies, to fascism (in Spain and Greece into the 1970s) and communism (in half of Europe into the 1990s). You and the other psychotically anti-US Europeans are a bunch of ungrateful cunts even if you are too ignorant too realize it.

What about the British Empire?

They spread civilisation to Africa, Asia and the Americas by giving them an educational system, a legal system, infrastructure, a common language, and so on. They freed countless countries from despotism and replaced it with rule of law. They brought peace to unstable areas by providing a stable government. They built up industries in other countries and brought them from a medieval or bronze age state, into the industrial age. They championed individual rights and humane treatment, when most of the world's governments treated people as disposable. They were a shining example of civilisation and law and order to the rest of the world.

Of course, they ultimately did it for selfish reasons (to benefit the companies that traded with the colonies, and provide taxes for the Crown), and a lot of innocent blood had to be spilled for the greater good. But is it any different today?

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweden initially told the USA that TPB weren't actually breaking the law. It was only after much being leaned on and loudly whispered at that Sweden suddenly discovered that, oh my gosh, TPB really were breaking the law after all.

There's a lot of stuff going on under the table between the USA and Sweden.

That's what I keep hearing. But so far the only "evidence" I've seen is hand-waving and vague statements about what the US might do or might be doing. It wouldn't surprise me, but the Swedes aren't a people to allow themselves to be leaned on much. When I don't see them getting anything out of the deal, it makes me think that if the US did try leaning on them, all they got back was a "fuck you".

Re:Conspiracy or not

[shentino]

You can bribe a horse with sticks as well as carrots you know...

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's not like two people said he raped them or anything.

Correct, they didn't. Why do you keep posting known falsehood in every thread possible?

(They went to the police to try to force him to take an STD test. The police filed the rape charges on their own initiative)

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Molk]

Total previous budget 3.5 million SEK, new budget for today 400 million SEK - no anomaly there...

According to the decision UD2008/10263/ASO (http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/openaid/original/Kambodja_samarbetsstrategi.pdf?1300445979) in 2008:

Landallokeringen fÃr Kambodja ska hÃgst uppgÃ¥ till 550 miljoner kronor under strategiperioden. Den Ã¥rliga volymen bÃr vara ca 150 miljoner kronor Ã¥r 2008, ca 175 miljoner kronor Ã¥r 2009 och ca 225 miljoner kronor Ã¥r 2010.

which basically says the maximum allocation to Cambodia should be approximately 150 millions SEK in 2008, 175 millions SEK in 2009 and 225 millions SEK in 2009. This was extended in 2011 until a new decision was made on March 8 in 2012, which can be found here: http://www.regeringen.se/content/1/c6/10/90/38/d0d2fb9e.pdf, which says the aid for 2012-213 should be 400 millions SEK. So, no, there is no anomaly if you bother to do a quick search to get the correct numbers...

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

But what have the Romans ever done for us?

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Source? The Swedish embassy in cambodia cites the previous budget of being 200 million sek and that the current (new) budget has been under negotiations since spring.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

It's as if you think the rule of law is for us, and not to protect them.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

they ultimately did it for selfish reasons... a lot of innocent blood had to be spilled for the greater good

And that cleanly invalidates any claim that what they did was "for the best", no matter how you spin it. Coercion is evil. Period. Who says? Human nature.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet that's still not evidence. Try harder.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[muffen]

Also how much aid was given to Cambodia before Svartholm was arrested?

The exact same amount (200 million SEK) was allocated, out of which 183 million was paid out. Swedish embassy in Cambodia has the following information around sweden's payouts to Cambodia per year (last 3 years).

Approved 2009: SEK 190 Million
Actual Payout 2009: SEK 182 Million

Approved 2010: SEK 177,5 Million
Actual Payout 2010: SEK 173 Million

Approved 2011: SEK 200 Million
Actual Payout 2011: SEK 183,8 Million

So virtually the same amount was allocated again as the past three years, but this time it's because Sweden wants someone extradited.

Doubt any of the conspiracy nuts hanging around will change their opinion but shall we at least assume there is a possibility the money has nothing to do with TPB? Maybe, just maybe, there is the possibility that Assange is wanted in Sweden for questioning because, and I know this is a bit out there, the prosecutor really wants to question him? But hey, what do I know, these days apparently Equador is for freedom of speech.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[muffen]

Total previous budget 3.5 million SEK, new budget for today 400 million SEK - no anomaly there...

3.5 million? really? this just shows that slashdot mods really dont care about facts and are happy to mod post with no reference with completely made up numbers.

Here are the actual numbers ... and for those of you who don't read swedish, Sweden has given between 150 - 200 million a year since 2009, and the 400 million allocated now is for 2 years, so theres no change there at all from last year.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[shentino]

I was actually suggesting a plausible alternative to bribery.

I call it extortion.

So rather than ONLY look for evidence of payoffs, maybe also put a magnifying glass over possible leverage that may have been used.

I actually never offered evidence, and never claimed to, so my hands are clean.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

Assange has NOT been accused of rape. He has not been accused at all, he is only wanted for questioning (which can be, and has been, done remotely by Sweden in the past). Furthermore the questioning does /not/ involve rape by any definition of the word. It is about willingly having sex and /later/ having doubts.

I can only agree on the fact that in order to get refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, Assange may have violated his orders. However, with all the hairy stuff going on at the time I'd have fled too. If you'd care, you'd read up on the facts.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[shiftless]

This is a joke, right? I see what you did there....serving as a caricature of the typically ignorant and brainwashed American, repeating the rote "lessons" he memorized in school. Very clever.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[shiftless]

So most filers are a per dollar basis will be in the situation that $Gift $TaxSavings. There may be some corner cases where you are right on the cusp of a tax bracket and a large value for $Gift might push you down into the next lowest bracket. That might bring $Gift and $TaxSavings much closer together, it might even invert the relationship, but its still very unlikely to be significant source of savings.

Which just goes to show you why most Americans are fucking idiots. They donate to charity for the bragging rights and tax benefits.....while being too stupid to realize that the tax "benefits" are essentially worthless. And patting themselves on the back the whole while for being "smart" with their money. LOL

Re:Conspiracy or not

[shiftless]

Right. Once incident 11 years ago means that the entire nation of Sweden is the Central Repository of Evil.

11 years ago? This Pirate Bay co-founder was just bought and paid for days ago.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[shiftless]

That's what I keep hearing. But so far the only "evidence" I've seen is hand-waving and vague statements about what the US might do or might be doing.

What the fuck do you expect, that the conspirators would just come out in the open and say it? Don't worry, that day is coming soon: and you WON'T like it.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[VisceralLogic]

So most filers are a per dollar basis will be in the situation that $Gift $TaxSavings. There may be some corner cases where you are right on the cusp of a tax bracket and a large value for $Gift might push you down into the next lowest bracket. That might bring $Gift and $TaxSavings much closer together, it might even invert the relationship, but its still very unlikely to be significant source of savings.

Which just goes to show you why most Americans are fucking idiots. They donate to charity for the bragging rights and tax benefits.....while being too stupid to realize that the tax "benefits" are essentially worthless. And patting themselves on the back the whole while for being "smart" with their money. LOL

Or, you know, because they're charitable. Wait, no, you're right... no one would be stupid enough to help someone else without realizing a material benefit in exchange.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

"was supposed to meet the police for questioning (which in Sweden happens before you are charged, while in other countries you are first charged with a crime and then questioned), fled the country to the UK, was "

Ok no, stop. He did not flee the country to UK to get away from rape charges. Before he left he specifically asked the police if they wanted to question him about the charges and they told him "NO YOU ARE FREE TO GO."

It was only after he arrived in UK that they changed their mind for some odd reason and have been desperately wanting him back ever since.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[MrL0G1C]

Anon coward is correct, there are harsh penalties for falsely accusing someone of rape in Sweden and neither of the women accused Assange of rape. He's still an asshat for what he did, but it's not on the same level as rape.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Rei]

Take the time to read the actual details of the case from the lower court and you won't sound so ignorant when talking about the subject. As the judge notes, whether in the UK or Sweden, having sex with a sleeping person to work around their refusal to consent to unprotected sex with you is rape, plain and simple.

And oh god, don't even get me started on "how a rape victim is supposed to react". I've known multiple rape victims who *dated* their rapist, to try to make what happened feel less like rape. Took me about 3 months before I was comfortable even using the word "rape" for what happened to me without couching it in weasel words like "unwanted sexual experience".

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Rei]

Riiiight. That's why SW's police interview states, "When she talked with her friends afterwards she understood she was the victim of a crime", right? That's why she got a rape kit, right? That's why she had a claimant counsel, right? Why AA's interview says "Sofia wanted to follow this up with the police"? Why JA said that he heard the accusation straight from AA, during his interrogation? Why SW and AA retained a common lawyer who's pushing the rape charges for them? I could keep going if you'd like.

Naaaah, they don't really want rape charges filed...

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

"Stave the Beast."

Enchanted?

Re:Conspiracy or not

[metacell]

Yes. Rule of law protects the weak from the strong. In medieval times, it protected the landowners from the king (e.g, Magna Carta). In modern times, it also protects the common man.

Without rule of law, the rich and powerful wouldn't even need to go to court to fuck you. They'd just send out their private army and beat you up or kill you.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[metacell]

Yes, I was just trying to point out the similarities between the British Empire and USA to the GGP.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[kamui47]

I fully agree. Sweden didn't have to pay $40 mio to Cambo to get Warg deported. The suggestion is complete nonsense. The reason is simple: Cambodia is highly corrupt! Just check Cambodia's ranking at Transparence International http://goo.gl/BTpss and follow the news about land grabbing, dubios investment deals, illegal logging and the institutionalized corruption on _all_ levels of the Khmer administration (down to low level school teachers in the villages, e.g.) and about the lawlessness in Cambodia. The Khmer elite (government, military, businesses) has no problem to sell out its own citizens and country (funny side-note: they even sold the building of the fully working main police station in Siem Reap or the Art University in Phnom Penh to investors - only selling parts of the ground of the Royal Palace failed). Khmer officials feel even less restraint to sell out a foreign nationals. Conclusion: Sweden had just to bribe some high ranking officials with a few hundred USD. And I guess the Khmer officials had no idea, that this would make the international news. By the way, usually the Khmer government doesn't give a sh*t what history expats living in Cambodia have, as long as the don't cross the Khmer elite or become the aim of international media and NGOs (for example in cases of Western paedophiles). Especially since Cambodia does not have any extradition treaties with Western country. PS: Cambodia receives around 1 billion USD foreign aid each year, while it is said that Cambodia loses 500 Mio USD due to corruption. In the end Sweden just gave the Khmer elite 20 Mio USD for free...

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe it's likely that the U.S. government (continuing it's campaign initiated by RIAA and MPAA) is pressuring Sweden to get him extradited. And that providing an enhanced aid package (about 150% of the norm) was used as an 'incentive' that Sweden used to make this happen. I've been to Cambodia quite a few times, and I can tell you it has one of the most corrupt governments around, so it doesn't surprise me.

It's not personal, but it does appear to be part of an overall strategy being executed by powerful corporate forces in the U.S. who are trying to prolong their failing business model. It's similar to Assange, except in that case it's the U.S. government that is pissed off and on a vendetta - pressuring Sweden to act.

Re:Conspiracy or not

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about a 150% increase. It just so happens to be at an extremely coincidental time. Couple that with how abjectly corrupt the Cambodian government is, it's not hard to connect dots to come up with a picture.

Yeah, and?

[girlintraining]

Wait, are you telling me that corporations paid the government to do what they couldn't do themselves? That's almost like saying that the government sometimes pays corporations to do what they can't do themselves... and we all know that never happens. Hangon, my cell phone is beeping... huh... I wonder why the GPS icon is blinking....

Re:Yeah, and?

[Mr. Wok]

huh... I wonder why the GPS icon is blinking....

You do understand that GPS is one-way communication only?

Re:Yeah, and?

[Anonymous Coward]

You realize that the phone can communicate the GPS coordinates it receives via other means?

Re:Yeah, and?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh, did you miss the CELL PHONE part?

Or do you not understand cell phones?

Re:Yeah, and?

[DarkOx]

You understand that she was making a joke, and they it might well be possible to remotely enable the gps on smart phone via one of the many alternate communications channels they off and that its likely possible to have that phone send its gps coordinates to you via that same channel, Right?

Crazy Swedes?

[Dripdry]

"Government funded, Samuel Hubinette approved."

Well come on, I couldn't think of a Soviet Russia joke!

Re:Crazy Swedes?

[lexa1979]

"In Soviet Russia, government pays you" ?

Re:Crazy Swedes?

[Anonymous Coward]

"In Soviet Russia, government pays you" ?

a visit. FTFY

Assange and Ecuador?

[Chuck Chunder]

You have to wonder how "flexible" Ecuador would be if Assange ever made it there and USAID shows up with an offer of "development dollars".

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Anonymous Coward]

They wouldn't accept it since the US went the other way and funded a police backed coup back in 2010. President Corea has hudge balls standing up to the US.

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you meant "fudge balls"?

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can suck on my chocolate coated fudge balls.

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't hold your breath, all South American countries have backed Ecuador over the situation and they (plus China) can easily counter any offer made by the yanks. Svartholm is insignifcant to the big players but Assange is a different case altogether... Americans have always had an us vs them attitude and that's finally dragged the whole world into a global conflict.

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, since they openly declared the UK to go fuck themselves "reeell niiiice", I doubt they would be. It's like fucking a woman. Once she decided she doesn't want to, handing over money will only make her rage and call the cops.

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Ecuador]

No comment.

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Rei]

They backed Ecuador over the inviolability of embassies and encouraging negotiation - standard diplomatic fluff. They did not back Ecuador over granting asylum to Assange or support a plank saying he should be handed over to Ecuador as they had requested.

The most notable thing America has said and done in this whole conflict is... practically nothing.

Oh, wait, "doing nothing" means they're guilty too, right? I remember how conspiracies work now...

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Rei]

So is the notion that Ecuador will refuse to take the USAID money, so USAID will wait until she falls asleep, and then stick the money into Ecuador without its permission?

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Ecuador had an agreement that the money would be wrapped in aid dollars first. They wouldn't want the money released on the public without Ecuador's knowledge, after all.

Re:Assange and Ecuador?

[Rei]

Meanwhile all of USAID's defenders are insisting that Ecuador should simply just lie back and take the money - pointing out that Ecuador has taken USAID money before.

Makes you wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

How much the USA has promised for Assange?

Re:Makes you wonder...

[Wandering Voice]

I wonder how much of what Sweden paid, was actually paid for by the US?

Re:Makes you wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how much of what Sweden paid, was actually paid for by the US?

Me too...

Re:Makes you wonder...

[miffo.swe]

Sadly probably not a single dime. Sweden's politicians are starstruck whenever they meet an American politician. They will happily bend over and take it. This is pretty strange considering Sweden being on the socialist side of the scale and the US on the fascist side. You would think atleast the Social democrats would have objections but no, as shown in the wikileaks cables, they cant wait to get that Uncle Sam schlong deep into their ass.

Re:Makes you wonder...

[metacell]

The USA doesn't need to make any cash payments to show their gratitude. They can just give Sweden a little extra allowance in the next trade agreement.

Re:Makes you wonder...

[metacell]

P.S. In Swartholm's case, I doubt there's any conspiracy, though. He doesn't seem important enough to spend millions on.

No, you tell me.

[loshwomp]

Did Sweden Pay Cambodia For the Pirate Bay Co-founder?

Why are you asking me? You're the one writing the article, so how about answering some questions and providing factual information instead of weaseling around with headline questions?

Re:No, you tell me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you asking me? You're the one writing the article, so how about answering some questions and providing factual information instead of weaseling around with headline questions?

If you had read the fucking article... you would see they *did* provide some factual information. It's just not reliable enough by itself to make a definitive statement... hens the use of a question mark next to their statement.

Re:No, you tell me.

[Anonymous Coward]

A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic.

- Andrew Marr (via WP)

Re:No, you tell me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yellow journalism and purple prose. I think they should all wear yellow with purple dots/stripes clothing.

Re:No, you tell me.

[Anonymous Coward]

The daily show coined this rhetoric 'the Cavuto' after a fox news personality who used it a lot. Any time I see it, I'm always reminded of the bit:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-13-2006/the-question-mark

Re:No, you tell me.

[coofercat]

As my English teacher used to say "why use rhetorical questions?"

Re:No, you tell me.

[shiftless]

To make people think, or a hundred other reasons. Next question.

Re:No, you tell me.

[jez9999]

To make people think more?

Re:No, you tell me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh.

What kind of dumbass...

[outsider007]

goes to Cambodia for asylum? Seriously.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[Kergan]

Why not? Have you ever lived there? Where should one go according to you? The US?

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[siddesu]

I hear South Africa is a favorite destination for various convicted Eastern European mafiots due to their accommodating extradition rules. I was there for a few weeks in 02 and I think it was a lot more pleasant place to be than Cambodia, which I visited around 06.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[Mr. Wok]

I have lived there. There's lots of corruption. TPB admin also had huge drug problem, which most likely is why he chose Cambodia. He didn't go there for any kind of political asylum, he went there to hide from Sweden and to use drugs.

Read khrem440 forums or ask any expat living there.. everyone knew about his drug problems. He also lived in an apartment that cost $750 a month. That's huge rent for a country where people earn like $30 a month.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[clarkkent09]

Why not? Have you ever lived there?
 
No, but I've been there and its basically a shithole in more ways than you can imagine.
 
  Where should one go according to you? The US?
 
Depends on who/what is one running from. If you are a dissident escaping from a tyranny like N. Korea or Cuba, then, yes, the US is the place to go. If you are running from the law in Sweden, then the US is the wrong place as you will likely get extradited.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[AlterEager]

If you are a dissident escaping from a tyranny like N. Korea or Cuba, then, yes, the US is the place to go.

You'd think so, wouldn't you.

Imagine you're running from Ghadaffi's Libya. The US would sound like a nice place to escape to. Imagine your supprise when you get waterboarded for two years then handed over to Ghadaffi's secret police for the real fun stuff.

What counts as a tyranny can change pretty fast.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[RivenAleem]

The US! That's genius, they'd never suspect that! But really, if I've got to choose between 2 lawless corrupt countries, I'll stick to Cambodia.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever you say, nutjob.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Cambodia has no extradition treaty with Sweden. Remember, the TBP guy is being deported back to his country of origin, not extradited. Of course, it's just a coincidence that Swedish authorities will be at the airport to take him into custody once his plane lands.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[shiftless]

Are you retarded? This actually happened. Google motherfucker, do you use it?

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? US has the highest standards -- you must be a world class mass murdering dictator acting in the best interests of the US or don't come here.

Re:What kind of dumbass...

[kamui47]

I have lived there. There's lots of corruption. TPB admin also had huge drug problem, which most likely is why he chose Cambodia. He didn't go there for any kind of political asylum, he went there to hide from Sweden and to use drugs. Read khrem440 forums or ask any expat living there.. everyone knew about his drug problems. He also lived in an apartment that cost $750 a month. That's huge rent for a country where people earn like $30 a month.

What you write is mostly unsupported nonsense. Warg was a very active member of the Khmer 440 forum until he had fallout with the admin. Now the admin wrote a highly denunciating article about him. The admin even included second hand information about a breakdown Warg had at his job - which is being denied by the company owner. Paying 750 USD for an apartment is in fact a nice sum, but actually PP is expensive for expats, so it's nothing out of ordinary. Also comparing Warg's income he had as programmer (even though we don't have no details about his income) with the average income of an unschooled Khmer farmer or unskilled factory worker is really absurd. If you have lived in Cambo I guess you were never really interested in what's going on in the country, except may what't the matter with drugs there... ;-)

Can you spell Wikileaks?

[Anonymous Coward]

After this, do we have any illusions that Sweden would not extradite Assange to the US to face "treason" chargers? Their government has become incontrovertibly corrupt...

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

Well, one has a sentence, and the other still hasn't got one, so the situation is not quite the same. BTW, the word "sentence" reminds me that sentences are still shelled out more or less according to laws in the West, and that you can still try to influence with some degree of success the process of lawmaking in your own country. What have you done to help the unjustly accused and the jailed because of unfair laws?

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[fredprado]

Your first statement is truth in most cases, but usually fail when there are enough interests against you. Sentences are indeed shelled out according to laws, unless the government wants the opposite badly enough.

The second statement is an illusion. You, I and people like us have absolutely no way of influencing the process of lawmaking in our countries.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

Well, I have influenced the lawmaking process in my country, so it isn't as hopeless as you imagine it to be. The less you try, though, the harder it gets, that I agree with.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way for a citizen to influence the law making procedure is either by intense lobbying/bribing officials, which is horribly unethical and should be guarded against, or by committing a crime so horrible and new that new laws are created specifically to outlaw YOU.

So what are you, an unethical asshole or a criminal?

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

I think you need to open yourself to new ideas. The world isn't as bad as you imagine it to be.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[metacell]

What have you done to help the unjustly accused and the jailed because of unfair laws?

I can't speak for the GP, but I voted for the Pirate Party in the last two elections (one national and one EU election).

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that the politicians making the laws in sweden are much closer to the people living in the country than in the united states? Parliament members only make a bit over the median wage, and most of them are not super rich, as in the US. Pretty easy to influence laws when you live next door to one of the people making them.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[fredprado]

Sorry, but you are delusional.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[shiftless]

I think you're horribly naive.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

of course. and you are the wise old man from the Internet, right?

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

I am intrigued. What am I delusional about?

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[fredprado]

About your ability to have any real effect in the laws of your country especially when the desired effect goes against the economical interests of big corporations.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

And what are the facts that support your case?

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[fredprado]

Everywhere. You just have to take a look at the evolution of the laws over the last decades and you will understand what I am saying. Then again, maybe not...

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

In other words, you have none. The PIOOMA brigade is indeed strong on /. and it never sleeps.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[fredprado]

Oh, I have plenty, as I pointed, it is not my fault if you are too lazy to look for them and want me to do your job for you. You, on the other hand, have none. But, by all means, keep holding to your fantasies, my good sir. I am sure they make your heart warmer.

Re:Can you spell Wikileaks?

[siddesu]

Yeah, you have plenty facts about me, my country and the changes we effected, you only don't want to break my ignorance with them, right? Idiot.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[Baseclass]

You spelled Wookiee wrong.

So?

[DNS-and-BIND]

Governments do this all the time. Jimmy Carter's famous Camp David Accords peace treaty between Sadat and Begin wouldn't have happened unless Carter bribed Egypt with $1.3 billion dollars per year in "aid". Not to be left out, Israel received a $3 billion bribe, I mean, foreign aid, for their part in the peace treaty. For accepting these bribes, Begin and Sadat shared a Nobel Peace Prize. Suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked to find that aid is going on here?

Try this from now on: any time you hear the word "foreign aid", mentally substitute the word "bribe". You'll see it's a quite normal state of affairs among nations.

Re:So?

[outsider007]

You really had to dig deep there for something that goes on all the time.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Camp David Accords happened a long time ago, but it's hardly "digging deep." It's certainly one of the most famous examples around. Other famous and more recent examples include Russian nuclear disarmament, North Korean inspections, and setting a "proper" budget to get EU or IMF funds. Treatment of, say, US soldiers on military bases facing local legal trouble, commitments on ICC enforcement, concessions on trade disputes, and other similar items often "influence" foreign aid decisions.

TFA offers no evidence, beyond a clear sense that the writer can't imagine anyone cares about Cambodia more than they care about the Pirate Bay founder. So a little hard to figure out how outraged I'm supposed to be. If you want my opinion, a comment during aid negotiations strikes me as totally normal; an explicit quid-pro-quo to get planned aid seems excessive; and tossing in an extra 10 million or something would be a bribe. But for all that's been presented so far, this could have been even *less* than the minimum at that list--a normal request from a bureaucrat Sweden. Those get listened to sometimes, too.

Re:So?

[outsider007]

Of course it happens all the time, but citing as the only reference something that happened 40 years ago undermines the argument if anything. That's all I'm saying.

In related news...

[phx_zs]

Secretary of State Clinton, after being asked on her way out of an industry conference hosted by the MPAA, assured reporters that the US's recent $60MM contribution to "strengthen ties" with Sweden was completely unrelated.

That's how the cookie crumbles

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha! You thought that the rule of law applies and that justice prevails! You're so cute!

You must be new here.

[DeTech]

This is how modern diplomacy works. Welcome to Earth, we have Cheetos.

Simply put...

[xor.pt]

Wikileaks released cables that showed the US had threatened to put Sweden on the WTO’s black list if they refused to deal with the Pirate Bay 'problem'.
So either Sweden actually stood to lose more than the 59.4m by doing nothing or the money came directly from the US.
Either way, the US is being a bully once again.

This is why everyone should vote Romney. While he is just as much of an asshole as Obama and many others before him, at least he'll burn the country to the ground for good.

Re:Simply put...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, Mittens is just a start.

To get a really good burn going, you need someone more committed to the cause, not some wishy-washy flip-flopping politico. I nominate the chairman of the Discovery Institute.

Re:Simply put...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or it's just that Sweden have been giving development aid to Cambodia since 1979 (when Sweden switched from emergency relief aid to development aid).

Occams razor, try it.

http://www.openaid.se/countries/kambodja

Re:Simply put...

[gagol]

How about no one votes for republicans and democrats for a change... they are both two sides of the same coin: the super rich lobby.

Re:Simply put...

[t0p]

So who is everyone gonna vote for? The USA, like a few other "democracies" (yes UK I'm looking at you), has a system where elections are basically choices between 2 parties (Ignore the "Coalition" crap in Britain currently, the so-called coalition is basically Conservative with LibDem trimmings on the side). In the USA, if you are told you can't vote Rep or Dem, most people just won't vote for anyone. And you'll end up with a Rep or Dem government anyway.

Re:Simply put...

[t0p]

Sorry, that should have been "yes Britain I'm looking at you."

Re:Simply put...

[Anonymous Coward]

You may want to take a look at the numbers of aid given, compared to that 400M kronor.

Re:Simply put...

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as I agree with you the numbers on the page you're linking to are rather small compared to the new numbers promised. If they suddenly give three times as much as normal, that's just as strange. On the other hand I'm willing to bet that this foreign aid thing has been planned since long before anakata was busted - it's not the sort of thing they just decide over coffee.

Re:Simply put...

[equex]

Hah you are right, the more idiots they elect the faster their shitty country burns and has to be rebuilt

Re:Simply put...

[Anonymous Coward]

You and, it seems many others, ascribe far too much power to the president.

Who cares? Sweden has become a joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

Utmeskiten.

Betteridge's law of headlines

[Kergan]

Meh the answer is No in all likelihood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[loshwomp]

Thank you. It is nice to know I'm not the only one bothered by this trend. It was starting to get lonely.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Twisted64]

I am so sick of seeing this. It's the latest "correlation is not causation" (previously godwin's law) that somebody now feels the need to put into every god damn article with a question for a headline.

Nothing against the parent personally, and nothing will stop it from appearing again, just wanted to vent.

Re:Betteridge's law of headlines

[Havenwar]

Except it has a very good point. If the headline is written in the form of a question, it's because the people who wrote the article didn't feel they had the answer. If they had an answer and felt confident about it, or even had the suggestion of a probable answer, then they would have written a statement as a headline rather than a question. Using a headline like this is bad practice because it is the trademark of an article that contains absolutely nothing of any value, just sensationalist statements to trigger a lively discussion. It's not "news", for nerds or anyone else, and it's not "stuff that matters", because it would only matter if there was a strong indication that it was indeed true.

So whoever chooses a headline for an article here should really consider double checking any story with a headline like this before letting it through.

Of course we all know that slashdot is just a gossip magazine with absolutely no journalistic integrity and an audience comprised entirely of people who are only interested in arguing, so if that's the kind of place we want it to be... I see your point entirely.

Bin Laden

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember Bin Laden's ransom we had? $25m. How much did he cost the US in damages? Trillions (2 wars) and thousands of American, and over 100,000 Iraqis.
Yet, we put a higher ransom on a guy who created a torrent site?
I don't want to live on this planet anymore...

A buck says

[Anonymous Coward]

the USA paid the Swedes to pay Thailand...

Re:A buck says

[shiftless]

A hunter says, "Dude....that deer just SPOKE. Did you hear it, or am I crazy?!"

Sweden’s development aid to Cambodia began i

[G3ckoG33k]

http://www.sida.se/English/Countries-and-regions/Asia/Cambodia/Our-work-in-Cambodia/

"Sweden’s development aid to Cambodia began in 1979. Humanitarian efforts have gradually given way to long-term cooperation. In the current cooperational strategy (2008-2010) our cooperation is focused on supporting reforms for decentralization and democratization, and human rights through support for the development of civil society and education."

Since 1979? Hmmm. It has not been that effective.

Re:Bullshit, figures please.

[Anonymous Coward]

you do realize what "per capita" means, right?

I know it's not politically correct but....

[Grayhand]

Okay you piss off billionaires and the countries behind them then squeal like pigs when they come after you? I think "dah" is a simple answer to the situation for both he and Assange. Sure in an ideal world you can say it wouldn't work this way but why is anyone surprised that that powerful people want them off the street??? If you try to fuck the bear in the ass he's likely to chase you up a tree. Why is this shocking? They are talking tens of millions but they are multibillion dollar a year industries. If you piss off the right people there's no where you can hide. Say this isn't the way it's supposed to work all you want but in the real world this is reality.

Re:I know it's not politically correct but....

[Anonymous Coward]

"dah" will not change the world for better. These guys will.

Re:I know it's not politically correct but....

[Anonymous Coward]

No, these guys (Assange and Svartholm) are just gears in machines that already run just fine without them. Individually, they are changing the world about as effectively as any random member of Anonymous.

He broke the law (according to court)

[Pecisk]

....aaaaand that's pretty much it. I (as regular Pirate Bay user) won't give into discussion about how it's unfair (life's unfair), how court was bought (again, prove this), etc. As I have understood, Pirate Bay founders/owners maitained civil disobedience during investigation and trial. They think law is unfair. Yet, they broke current law - according to court, again - and that's where we land. Cambodia don't even care about this small print, Sweden has legimitate order, they want him - they sure will get him.

Leave selective truth, propaganda and conspiracy theories to the Fox News, please. I know geeks are so much better and above this (also Assange). I know world sucks. I know fight with IPR megacorps and ideas are heavy. But no one promised easy walk in the park.

Re:He broke the law (according to court)

[BlueStrat]

[He broke the law (according to the court)]....aaaaand that's pretty much it.

So did Rosa Parks.

I'm just glad there aren't more like you for the sake of the Rosa Parks of the world.

Strat

Re:He broke the law (according to court)

[metacell]

....aaaaand that's pretty much it. I (as regular Pirate Bay user) won't give into discussion about how it's unfair (life's unfair), how court was bought (again, prove this), etc.

I wouldn't say "bought", but it's well documented that several of the judges were members of pro-copyright organisations, i.e, organisations with the goal of strengthening copyright. It's not a secret; the judges admitted it in public after the newspapers pointed it out.

It's also well documented that the lead investigator working on the Pirate Bay case, was hired by Warner Brothers during the investigation, and started his job there the day after the investigation was concluded. Once again, he admitted it publicly.

It's also a well-documented fact that the public prosecutor initially decided to not prosecute the Pirate Bay, because he didn't consider what they did (publish links to copyrighted material) to be illegal according to Swedish law. US diplomats had a talk with the Swedish government and demanded they do something about the Pirate Bay problem (publicly admitted). After that, the Swedish justice minister had a talk with the public prosecutor about the problem with pirate sites (again, publicly admitted). The public prosecutor then, by pure coincidence, changed his mind and decided to prosecute Pirate Bay after all. This was a minor scandal when it was revealed in Swedish newspapers (and the Cablegate papers, which are even more incriminating, hadn't even been released at that time).

As I have understood, Pirate Bay founders/owners maitained civil disobedience during investigation and trial.

Not true, or at least not proven. The Pirate Bay founders claimed they had handed over control of the site to other people and were no longer running it. That may or may not be true, but the prosecution couldn't prove otherwise.

Re:He broke the law (according to court)

[MoellerPlesset2]

It's also well documented that the lead investigator working on the Pirate Bay case, was hired by Warner Brothers during the investigation, and started his job there the day after the investigation was concluded. Once again, he admitted it publicly. It's also a well-documented fact that the public prosecutor initially decided to not prosecute the Pirate Bay, because he didn't consider what they did (publish links to copyrighted material) to be illegal according to Swedish law. US diplomats had a talk with the Swedish government and demanded they do something about the Pirate Bay problem (publicly admitted). After that, the Swedish justice minister had a talk with the public prosecutor about the problem with pirate sites (again, publicly admitted). The public prosecutor then, by pure coincidence, changed his mind and decided to prosecute Pirate Bay after all. This was a minor scandal when it was revealed in Swedish newspapers (and the Cablegate papers, which are even more incriminating, hadn't even been released at that time).

I'm pretty sure Bodström never admitted publicly to telling a prosecutor what to do, as that would be quite blatantly illegal. He was investigated for that and denied it. But more importantly:
Let's pretend every single thing you say - the usual defense presented by TPB defenders - is absolutely true. The fact remains that none of this says proves anything at all about whether TPB actually were guilty or not. It's pure misdirection. Talk about everything but the actual ruling, or the legal issues at stake. You're looking for bias in the judge's affiliations and connections - but what about his actual words, reasoning and ruling? (A ruling which was confirmed by higher courts!)

The fact remains: The Pirate Bay guys were repeatedly found guilty. Not of copyright infringement, but of being an accessory to criminal copyright infringment. Now the law here is unambiguous - criminal copyright infringment is punishable by prison, and you can be sentenced as an accessory to any crime severe enough to result in a prison sentence. The magnitude of copyright infringement conducted through TPB's trackers clearly was on a criminal scale. They knew this. They were knowingly and deliberately aiding and facilitating that infringement. Not only that, they were making a good deal of money off of it. They never did anything in the slightest to hide these facts. They didn't make any efforts at all to stop it - or even pretend to try.

They thought - obviously - that they were in the clear as long as they themselves weren't distributing any copyrighted material. And they were cleared of all such charges. And the prosecution did prove, in the eyes of the court, that they were behind the site, or they wouldn't have been convicted. They had (among other evidence) e-mails between them talking about the money they were bringing in.

The judge was investigated for - and cleared of- those allegations of undue influence. Bodström was investigated for, and cleared of, those allegations of ministerial rule. The only people not cleared here was the Pirate Bay guys - because they were pretty obviously guilty of what they were charged of. But rather than man-up to the fact that maybe they weren't as clever as they thought they were, and that their own interpretation of the law didn't hold, they just continue to point fingers at everyone else. It's all the fault of the RIAA, the USA, corrupt judges and politicians, yadda yadda.

The Pirate Bay was found guilty of aiding and abetting copyright infringment. Because that's what they were doing. You know it, I know it, the court knows it and the defendants know it. This whole conspiracy theorizing is a lousy attempt to draw attention away from this obvious fact. They ultimately have nobody but themselves to blame here. Just because Slashdotters think TPB should be legal, doesn't make it so.

Re:He broke the law (according to court)

[metacell]

I'm pretty sure Bodström never admitted publicly to telling a prosecutor what to do, as that would be quite blatantly illegal. He was investigated for that and denied it.

Correct. Like I wrote, he admitted he had a talk with the prosecutor about Internet piracy in general. That US diplomats contacted the Swedish government and asked them to take care of the Pirate Bay problem just before that, and the public prosecutor changed his mind about Pirate Bay just after that, was, of course, pure coincidence.

Let's pretend every single thing you say - the usual defense presented by TPB defenders - is absolutely true. The fact remains that none of this says proves anything at all about whether TPB actually were guilty or not. It's pure misdirection. Talk about everything but the actual ruling, or the legal issues at stake. You're looking for bias in the judge's affiliations and connections - but what about his actual words, reasoning and ruling?

Ok, let's talk about the reasoning. Huge damages (by Swedish standards) were awarded because the copyright violations were considered to be "commercial". However, the prosecutor never proved that the Pirate Bay founders earned any money from the site. They only proved that their ad seller in Israel had made a profit. They were found guilty of commercial infringement because a subcontractor hade made a profit! That's like saying the Red Cross is a commercial organisation because the company they buy their trucks from makes a profit.

Since the founders still seem to have a modest lifestyle, I doubt they made any significant amounts of money from the site.

They were also judged as a collective, even though they had very different degrees of involvement in the site. Peter Sunde (brokep) wasn't really one of the founders; he was just a supplier. He was found guilty because, on one occasion, he had agreed to collect an invoice the Pirate Bay made out to an ad buyer. That's like saying a collection agency is accessory in any crimes committed by the company they collect invoices for.

Courts don't reason that way in other cases. For example, if a company commits fraud by sending out fake invoices, nobody ever claims their collection agency is an accessory. If a company handles toxic substances irresponsibly, nobody ever claims their supplier is accessory to environmental crimes. It's not a supplier's responsibility to check the legality of their customer's busines, not even if they have reason to suspect it may be illegal.

On the main issue (accessory to copyright infringement), they may have been guilty, because they flaunted that their site was used for piracy. But if different judges had been ruling, they may have been found innocent, because the were just providing a service that could be used for both legal and illegal purposes. Much like stores can sell equipment for getting free cable or distilling alcohol, knowing full well that >90% of it is used illegally.

I think it could have gone either way, but the copyright lobby made sure the judges saw it the "right" way by systematically inviting them to conferences and paid jobs where they could be presented with the copyright lobby's point of view.

(A ruling which was confirmed by higher courts!)

The judges in the higher court were also affiliated with copyright organisations. Pirate Bay went to trial in two instances, and in both of them, some of the judges were members of pro-copyright organisations.

They didn't make any efforts at all to stop it - or even pretend to try.

There's no legal responsibility to police your site to remove illegal content. The DMCA is not applicable in Sweden, and the copyright holders never sent any Swedish take-down notices to Pirate Bay.

In fact, if they set up a system to monitor and take down torrents, it could make them more liable, since the prosecution could now claim they ha

Re:Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah but can you use a HOSTS file to help? C'mon APK sing the virtues of HOSTS files! It's important (soo very important) and I don't remember. Remind me! For the good of the internets!

but I mean .. if you can't do it you can't do it.

Re:Bullshit, figures please.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know these figures when they were up in the news, they came from Swedish Red Cross.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[Anonymous Coward]

No worries. George Lucas is bound to call them Wookies in a remastered edition sooner or later.

Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you provide some facts before calling bullshit?

Here are the figures for 2002: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html

Combining government and private assistance, Sweden provided 62cents per capita, US 18cents.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Both being dwarfed by Norways 102c.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[brit74]

To be fair, the original statement was dramatically wrong. That statement was "Swedish government spend several hundred times more per capita". The actual number from your provided statistics is "3.44 times more per capita".

I know that Sweden gives more per capita in government aid than the US. However, claiming that it spends several hundred times more per capita immediately raised by BS detector, too. My first impulse was to verify it because I didn't believe it.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[metacell]

Norway is a very rich country these days, due to their oil income.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[olau]

Later source (from here).

Norway, Sweden (both very close), Denmark, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Netherlands come out on top.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[olau]

Oops, that's not comparable to the previous one as this is per PPP. There's a per capita one where Luxembourg comes out top.

Re:Your Bullshit is Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that Sweden gives more per capita in government aid than the US.

No, they give more per capita in direct assistance than the US. That does not include a lot of stuff the US spends money on to help out foreign aid programs. A lot of our military resources go to supporting aid programs, but those expenditures don't get counted as "assistance" (for various reasons). A lot of those military operations make it so the Swedes don't have to spend their own money, leaving them more for the direct assistance.

Oh, and Sweden's per capita income is about 13% higher than the US, and that wasn't factored into the numbers either.

My point isn't to make the Swedes look bad, they are a very generous People. And it's not to falsely inflate the US, although I think what we do is often overlooked and underestimated. Rather, it's to point out that the numbers provided only tell a small part of the story, and cannot legitimately be used to support any statement about one country doing more or less than the other in terms of helping out other countries.

Good Swedes ..

[bothandeach]

was a theme of my childhood and up until now. 64 stupid years, as I will be pretty damn soon.

Swedish aid to Cambodia began in 1979

[emakinen]

Swedish development aid to Cambodia began in 1979. Since then Sweden has given millions of dollars to Cambodia. The article by The Next Web and Torrent Freak have no evidence at all to back their claim. It's biased reporting, based on no research and strong prejudice. It is ridiculous to claim that Sweden would use millions of dollars to arrest a man, who is, from government perspective, a petty criminal.

why

[nancyfromafrica]

why is everyone after the torrent sites these days

Re:why

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they are illegal in most countries in the world? Could be a possibility.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[DNS-and-BIND]

This has what to do with Cambodia or Sweden again? I swear, there has got to be a new vocabulary word for self-centered Americans who think every single discussion is about their country.

No, it was the MAFIAA

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweden didn't pay for it. If anyone did pay, it was the MPAA/RIAA black ops funding who did it, probably through numerous lobbyists and other corrupt government bodies. Just like back in 2006, when it was revealed that the raid on TPB was in fact ordered by a swedish minister, after having been told to do it by the media mafia.

It's easy to see. Just look at who would have the most to gain, and the answer is obvious.

Hey, this is new!

[macraig]

So... some powerful influential people with personal, emotional, reputational axes to grind with a clever fellow who escaped their "justice" are willing to squander an astronomic amount of money they didn't earn in order to make the clever fellow pay dearly for being more clever than them?

Yep, that's new!

Re:Hey, this is new!

[macraig]

... clever fellow who escaped their control....

There, fixed that for myself....

Re:Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention, who's to say your boot sector's being modified if you've got malware in your firmware? All that shits loaded at boot son!

Even if you buy a safe system, like a 286, and throw an old Minix on there, and manage to modify your 286 and Minix to look at today's devices... who's to say they ain't got a little extra code in there to see if they're in the middle of booting or in the middle of forensic analysis and shit and drop the right code on you for the occasion?

What you got to do is build your own router from -scratch-. I mean solder that shit right on the board! You implement your own CPU, your own memory, and you handcode the fucker from toggle switches like it's a motherfucking Altair. ICs are for chumps! Make it know what authorized traffic is and what ain't, and have it give you a big ol' klaxxon and shit when it sees something phoning home.

That's where the fuck it's at. Playin with live cds and shit, that's level 1 thinking. You gotta go 8-bit, motherfucker, right to the roots!

Azerbaijan

[Anonymous Coward]

Azerbaijan secretly promised to buy Hungarian bonds for releasing Ramil Safarov. But now that it happened they won't. A lot cheaper solution.

I don't think so

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the US put pressure on the Swedish government to open investigations on this. This is pretty much proven by leaks. Question is if they bribed the responsible minister directly or not (he has since moved to the US...) but that isn't sure.

I beleive the "media maffia" bribed the police (Keyzer? Keyser?) responsible for investigations by offering him a high paying job in the maffia that he got even before the investigation was finished.

I also think the judge in the first trial was "corrupt", maybe not by direct bribes but certainly by being in the same "gang" as the maffia (member of copyright organisations and so on).

But that Sweden paid for Svartholms arrest and extradition. No, the Swedish goverment isn't that clever in "getting" people.

And if the rumors of Svartholms drug addiction is correct, maybe he can benifit from staying a year in prison detox.

It's Sweden, again !!

[Taco Cowboy]

If the allegation of Sweden paying Cambodia, for them to body snatch a single person, - Gottfrid Svartholm, - so that they can then "deported" the guy back to Sweden - We would know what will happen to Mr. Julian Assange when he step on Sweden's soil --->

Mr. Assange will end up be "sold" to USA, just like Mr. Svartholm was sold to Sweden

Re:It's Sweden, again !!

[Rei]

From the first comment in the article:

Exactly who is giving that money to Camobdja I've checked the aid numbers and they say nothing about 400 million Crowns. Sweden do give ~150 million Crowns per year to Cambodja. See: http://www.openaid.se/countries/kambodja

So Sweden apparently already has a regular aid budget to Cambodia.

Sweden's annual foreign aid budget is $5,3B USD, and is generally considered to be well-run. Even if the reported number is accurate, that would only be 1% of the reported annual aid budget, an amount not at all inappropriate for a country like Cambodia.

Oh, and humans suck at detecting coincidence intuitively. The sample size of possible events one could find suspicious is enormous, as is the search space on individuals around whom you might suspect a conspiracy exists. Conspiracies feed themselves because of this.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[metacell]

You're probably thinking about Switzerland (a republic situated in the Alps in Central Europe, known for its chocolate, watches and banking system).

Sweden (a constitutional monarchy in Northern Europe) is not known for its banking system. We do have Volvo, Ericsson and The Pirate Bay, though.

Re:Sweden’s development aid to Cambodia bega

[Anonymous Coward]

The lack of effectiveness must've been the reason they very, very recently allegedly decided to increase their support a hundredfold.

Seems it's already getting results.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[metacell]

Ethnocentricity?

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[rtb61]

The thinking would be, that Barrack Obama RIAA/MPAA stuffed department of in-justice put the hard word on Sweden via that political hooker Hilary Clinton, for totally screwing up the Julian Assange thing and making both the UK and US government look pretty ridiculous, that Sweden had better make that Pirate Bay guy. Campaign dollar pressures.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[hairyfeet]

Uhhh...last I heard Sweden didn't have a giant world reaching film and music industry, so you can be pretty sure it was the *.A.A pulling the strings. That is what happens when wealth becomes too concentrated in the hands of too few, you get these multinational monsters that can slip some money in the right pockets anywhere on the planet and get what they want.

OpenAID.se History

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.openaid.se/en/countries/kambodja

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but Volvo(cars) is owned by Ford, and the Volvo truck is owned by GM, and Ericsson is owned by Sony. So...what does that leave Sweden? Lots of taxes or something.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[Anonymous Coward]

So you say that the CIA is a tool for the president, well lets lump the CIA and the NSA together. So what if a new president came to power and decided to drop the combined budget to these agencies to 20% they current size. You don't think that the president would be in fear for assassination? If you truly believe that this would be no problem at all, then I guess you would also believe these agencies are tools of the president, if you think that just maybe that any president that did this might suddenly increase his own security detail then you probably don't fully believe that this agencies are tools of the government and that maybe that are powers unto themselves.

Laughable.

[oh2]

You have no clue. The Swedish government gives almost 400 million SEK to Cambodia because it is run by the Illuminati and they want anakata for a ritual sacrifice. The sacrifice will take place on december 21st at Angkor Wat and stave off the end off the world as prophesied by the mayans. See, I just constructed a news story with equal truth content based on the same figures. Which one do you prefer ?

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[Anonymous Coward]

And a 99% mobile broadband coverage, cheap high speed internet connections, phone service providers that don't charge you for incoming calls, fiber connections in most major cities (up to gigabit speeds in the biggest ones), socialized health care to keep people healthy, free schooling all the way up to and including university educations and whatever else there is... measuring the wealth of a socialist state by the fact that some of their companies are bought up by capitalists is rather dumb.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[rbrausse]

Ericsson is owned by Sony.

Sony Ericsson != Ericsson...

So...what does that leave Sweden? Lots of taxes or something.

"something" includes companies like AstraZeneca, Electrolux and H&M, and no one is forced to perform "Let It Be" to pay medical bills for an 11 month old child.

Sweden seems to have problem with justice system

[hubert.lepicki]

This, and Assange's case clearly show that there is something wrong with Swedish justice system. These arrests must have been influenced/initiated/forced by politicians.

In a healthy country, justice system is independent, that also should apply to law enforcement system to some extent.

We criticize Russia for Pussy Riot case, but we have similar problem in Western Europe as it seems.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[AliasMarlowe]

Volvo(cars) is owned by Ford

Bzzzzt wrong. Volvo cars is owned by Geely.

Re:Sweden's development aid to Cambodia began i

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say Cambodia has come a hell of a long way since 1979.

Until the start of 1979 these guys were in charge.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[Anonymous Coward]

and Sweden is owned by USA? ;)

This is not about TPB, possibly WikiLeaks

[CyberDruid]

According to friends who have visited Svartholm, he is being held on terrorism charges not related to TPB, but still on the request of Sweden:
https://twitter.com/brokep/status/243609656126230528
https://twitter.com/brokep/status/243611708386574336

Peter Sunde, a TPB founder, seems to think that it is related to the fact that Svartholm's company used to host WikiLeaks.

Re:This is not about TPB, possibly WikiLeaks

[CyberDruid]

BTW "Anakata" is the handle that he usually goes by.

Re:This is not about TPB, possibly WikiLeaks

[MoellerPlesset2]

he is being held on terrorism charges not related to TPB

No, he's not being held on any kind of terrorism charges, nor do your links say that either. It says he's being held by the Cambodian interior ministry's "counter terrorism department", for whatever reason. Sweden is however seeking Svartholm for questioning on additional charges related to hacking into tax records, which is a case that's been developing for a few months, with several other arrests.

Peter Sunde, a TPB founder, seems to think that it is related to the fact that Svartholm's company used to host WikiLeaks.

Well, that would apparently be wrong. And a stupid gues as well. Why would they go after him now for his company formerly hosting them? Especially since they're currently hosted by the Swedish ISP Bahnhof?

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[TheLink]

IKEA? Oops that's Dutch already... ;)

Ok erm Assa Abloy and Atlas Copco?

Indeed, the two people DID NOT say it was rape.

[Anonymous Coward]

But your ignorance and repeating of this falsity isn't personal, is it. Oh, no. He just helped show up the USA and how far it has fallen.

And that makes you mad.

Re:Indeed, the two people DID NOT say it was rape.

[Rei]

FYI, I live in Iceland and love any good excuse to protest the USA.

What is the deal with this, if you don't like rape, then you love the USA? When did this happen?

Re:Bullshit, figures please.

[Anonymous Coward]

Red Cross was founded 1863 in Geneva, Switzerland. But apart from the fact that you example of a great American aid organisation being international and founded in Europe, you are correct.

Case Closed

[hyades1]

Does anybody still doubt if this government gets hold of Julian Assange, they'll have his soon-to-be-dead ass on its way to the United States faster than you can say "American Lapdog"?

Re:Case Closed

[gnasher719]

Does anybody still doubt if this government gets hold of Julian Assange, they'll have his soon-to-be-dead ass on its way to the United States faster than you can say "American Lapdog"?

Absolutely. I mean, yes, lots of people doubt that. When a person is extradited to another country, they can only be taken to court for crimes in the extradition request. At an extreme case, if you badly injure another person, flee to another country, get extradited, and _after you are extradited_ the victim dies, you cannot be convicted for murder because that wasn't in the request for extradition. (In practice, police are not stupid and delay the extradition in a case like that).

Re:Case Closed

[hyades1]

Forgive me, but what makes you think the US would attempt to extradite Assange for the alleged crime the Swedes want to talk to him about? He hasn't even been charged with anything. The Swedes claim they want him only for questioning, but decided not to go with the long-standing practice of conducting the interview by phone, as Swedish law allows under the Mutual Legal Assistance provisions.

Assange is worried that once Sweden gets physical custody of him, the US will charge him with something very serious and then file an extradition request.

Frankly, the whole thing stinks to high heaven, and if I was Assange, the only way they'd get me to Sweden would be by force.

What's next for slashdot?

[Pikewake]

A heated debate over an article from The Onion?
I thought /. was supposed to be "news for nerds" not "half baked conspiracy theories for complete fuckwits."
A clue for those of you who think you understand the legal system of Sweden from watching a few episodes of Law & Order or its foreign policy because you have managed to gather that Sweden is in Europe: Get a new tin foil hat and head to davidicke.com instead of posting crap here.

Re:What's next for slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you could explain to us why this scenario is implausible. Otherwise shut the fuck up. Idiot.

Re:What's next for slashdot?

[Pikewake]

Perhaps you could explain to us why this scenario is implausible. Otherwise shut the fuck up. Idiot.

There are several posts above that will do that for you, and I saw no need to repeat what is obvious for anyone with at least one working brain cell.
But since you ask so nicely: look up "Non sequitur" in your favorite encyclopedia.

A piece of advice for free: If you are going to call people idiots, please have the balls to do that without hiding behind an anonymous account.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony Ericsson is no longer. We're Sony now.

/ a Sony Mobile employee

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[metacell]

Sweden has lower corporate taxes than the USA.

"Sony Ericsson" was a joint venture by Sony and Ericsson. Sony didn't own Ericsson. The project has ended, and Ericsson has left the mobile phone market to focus on providing the infrastructure (i.e, mobile antennas and switchboards).

Re:Sweden seems to have problem with justice syste

[MoellerPlesset2]

These arrests must have been influenced/initiated/forced by politicians.

Because it's just unthinkable that someone sentenced for a crime could be extradited for it? And Assange's case is even more ridiculous. So was it political pressure that made the district attorney _drop_ the case, only for that decision to be successfully appealed by the women's representative? And given that the women and their legal representative are members of the opposition, are they working across the isle on this, too? You're living in a crazy fantasy.

In a healthy country, justice system is independent

But only if they're doing what you want, right? Because Assange doesn't think so. He thinks the Swedish government should provide guarantees he won't be extradited to the USA, despite the fact that this is a decision the courts would make. He's asking for the Swedish executive to tell the judicial what to do.

You are a liar.

[deanklear]

They freed countless countries from despotism and replaced it with rule of law. They brought peace to unstable areas by providing a stable government.

Count them. Which invasions and subjugations of entire peoples have led to stable governments? Are you talking about Iraq? Egypt? Somalia? Sudan? Nigeria? Afghanistan? How are those former colonies faring these days?

They built up industries in other countries and brought them from a medieval or bronze age state, into the industrial age.

Name one British program to develop African manufacturing capacity. There are zero, or virtually zero, because the purpose of colonialism is to subjugate a population in order to steal their natural resources so the parasite nation -- in this case, the UK -- can take those raw materials and create wealth by processing them. Even in cases where manufacturing had to be located in the country occupied by the British, those factories were never owned or under the control of the native population. That's why they spent hundreds of years trying to kick the British out.

They championed individual rights and humane treatment, when most of the world's governments treated people as disposable.

The British empire enslaved hundreds of millions of people and then worked them to death in colonies across the world. They killed millions through their quaint "expeditions" on their hunt for the next civilization to exploit. Did you forget about slavery and war? I know those parts of British history only lasted for a few hundred years; maybe it just slipped under your radar.

Re:You are a liar.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can quote failed states like Afghanistan and Somalia. I'll quote India, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. I think those former colonies are doing rather well economically and politically, though all still suffer inequality and racism to a greater or lesser degree.
And sure we used those countries to feed the raw materials and foodstuffs that drove the industrialisation of Europe. Cotton, tea, sugar, spices, tobacco, diamonds, gold, timber, cattle and furs. Only when independent did they build their own manufacturing sectors, decimating those industries in the UK. E.g. the mills were wiped out by India building up it's own cotton processing.
Is the US any better example? No. They are happy to import raw materials esp crude oil, with no questions asked about the states they buy from as long as the supply is kept cheap and reliable.
And "enslaved"? No. Those people in the Empire were already enslaved in feudal states. By breaking the stranglehold of hereditary dictators and thugs we opened up the opportunity for those nations to emerge as democracies. Indeed it's the countries that didn't learn enough from Britain and the political and legal institutions we tried to create and are still tied to clans or tribes that failed, e.g. the African, Arab and west Asian states you listed.
Yes, we did start a few wars, particularly in Asia to secure our supply chain. Not our finest hour. As the US has done in Iraq and elsewhere. And while we had a terrible involvement in the slave trade to supply workers to the US and Caribbean colonies we did more than any other nation to bring an end to that injustice and treat all people as equal. It certainly took the USA a long time to catch up, but then we didn't have plantations needing cheap labour from slaves.
"worked to death"? "killed millions"? Citations, please. The Spanish killed millions accidentally by bringing European diseases to Latin America. The British? We never had a large enough army to do that much damage. By bringing justice, medicine, education and economic development on balance we saved many times more than we killed.
There is a tendency in Britain to try and hide from our imperial past. There is a lot to feel ashamed of. But there is a lot to feel proud of too and on balance the empire should be seen as a positive thing in human history. Good that it's over, but good that it happened.

Re:You are a liar.

[metacell]

I think you have good points. I wasn't actually trying to glorify the British empire, I was just trying to show that it's not that different from the USA. Both justify their wars by claiming they're spreading their superior social order to the rest of the world, and that it's actually a selfless sacrifice on their part. The British are as justified in making that claim as the Americans. They called it "the white man's burden"; I don't know if there's an American term for it.

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Before you go blaming everything on Obama, realize it was a Bush-packed Supreme Court that gave us the Citizens United ruling which issued in a new age of corruption in politics.

Very fishy

[Anonymous Coward]

Ron Kirk, the US Govt's top trade representative just happens to be in Cambodia at the time he was arrested. Cambodia then announces he'll be extradited despite there being no extradition treaty between the two countries (which is why he chose to live there). Then 2 days later Sweden give Cambodia an unprecedented $59 million. It smells fishy to me.

You are a double liar.

[Anonymous Coward]

The British didn't enslave many people actually. Most slaves in the triangular slave trade - the only slave trade that Britain got involved in - were bought from slave traders - African mainly, some Portuguese. Britain was the first modern country to abolish slavery, and fought wars to stop slavery around the world.

I don't know about "African manufacturing capacity" but the British built the modern railways still in use in India and Africa. The line from Alexandria to Khartoum was built by Lord Kitchener (he of the "WANTS YOU" posters), Cecil Rhodes wanted to build a line from the Cape to Cairo.

Nigeria has a lot of problems - it had a lot of problems before the British - but it also has a functional civil service, courts and fairly democratic elections.

I love how people like to round upon the British for their colonial past and judge past acts against current morality. The British did no more than most other European nations, and in many cases were the colonies previously governed by the British now are significantly better off than the countries that were governed by other nations. How did the French-Indochina fall apart so massively? Look at the fate of the Belgian Congo and German (then Belgian) Rwanda.

The most telling insight is that the Commonwealth of Nations still consists of all these countries that the British governed, well after independence. In fact, I think the only country that does not recognise their special relationship with Britain with membership is ironically the one that constantly mentions their "special relationship".

Re:You are a double liar.

[deanklear]

I'm against all forms of colonialism. The reason the poster is a liar is because they claimed that colonialism has had a stabilizing effect, and that the subjugation of all of those cultures crushed by greed and hubris was somehow a moral action. Enforcing your way of life on someone else with violence and death is one of the most immoral acts a nation can collectively make.

I hold all colonial powers, from the Egyptian Empire to the Roman Empire to the American Empire, in equal contempt on that point.

Re:You are a double liar.

[emj]

How is colonialism worse than regular wars, like Yugoslavian conflict.

Did Sweden pay Cambodia to arrest PB Founder?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. So what? This happens all the time in diplomatic circles. Hell it happens in every county in the US, that's why we have bounty hunters for bail jumpers. Sweden considers the man a criminal and agreed to pay Cambodia money for various projects in return for bringing in this criminal. The issue isn't who paid who, the issue is that Sweden considers him a criminal, that's what we should be talking about, not some bounty getting paid.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok so Volvo is now owned by a Chinese government holding front company...?

Re:The Wookie Who Shagged Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just like there's a word for assholes who always have to drop in on every discussion just to be a pedantic shit. The word is: asshole.

Retraction

[deanklear]

Only 12 million were enslaved and brought to the Americas... I don't know why I thought there were orders of magnitude more, but I was entirely incorrect on that point.

Also, I did not mean to suggest Britain was any worse than other colonial powers. They all operated more or less in the same way: exploit and destroy local cultures and governments in order to profit from their natural resources. I have little respect for any colonial empire, and I still strongly disagree with the sentiment that the lives and cultures destroyed in the process in order to establish a Western way of life through simple-minded violence was at all justifiable.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[snugge]

...and IKEA would become Swedish again very quickly if it was cheaper to run it from there.
The (Swedish) Kamprad family still controls the various companies and fondations making up IKEA...

Where does that say "including private charity"?

[SuperKendall]

Here are the figures for 2002: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html

That's great, but where does it say that includes private assistance?

I never claimed that the U.S. beat Sweden on government assistance only.

And as noted it's far from your many orders of magnitude you were claiming.

Re:so messed up like jelly on a hot god

[metacell]

Yes, but I took the wrong bait :)