QR Codes For Memorials

EEEEEEE by Mr.+Kinky · 2012-09-10 01:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

If the QR idea takes hold memorials will be able to tell much more to future generations

Yes, put obsolete technology there. Why not just put floppies?

You don't need QR codes for that information anymore. Everything is saved anyway. You could just put the persons social security number there and all that information and much more would still be available.

Re:EEEEEEE by aNonnyMouseCowered · 2012-09-10 01:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

The QR codes would only work as advertised if the "cloud" part of the system is still intact. Otherwise you'd have just some fancy hieroglyphics for future archaelogists to decipher. If this is the case, why not just carve out the human readable URL of the poor dude's FB/Twitter/G+ page.
Re:EEEEEEE by Culture20 · 2012-09-10 01:31 · Score: 1

Laser carve their photo and call it a day.
Re:EEEEEEE by hairyfeet · 2012-09-10 01:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have one word for those that think this would be a good idea....Geocities? Anybody remember Geocities? people had their whole lives on those pages and guess what? Went tits up and bye bye all that work. Of course most people aren't web designers so it was a brightly colored nightmare, but hey, some people like gaudy crap.
For these to work you have to have a "permanent cloud", we're talking centuries permanent, except the cloud is the biggest "her today, gone this afternoon" medium we have. if you want to do something like this what we need is the data embedded in the stone itself, hell putting a fricking flash stick in the rock would be a better idea than this, at least if you have it built in the rock, with it read only, it should last for decades if the person isn't rock star popular.
TLDR? Stupid idea because it depends on something that never lasts.

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:55 · Score: 0

If the QR idea takes hold memorials will be able to tell much more to future generations
Yes, put obsolete technology there. Why not just put floppies?
You don't need QR codes for that information anymore. Everything is saved anyway. You could just put the persons social security number there and all that information and much more would still be available.
In the future, letters and numbers could be obsolete, so how is a QR code any different?
Re:EEEEEEE by Gadget_Guy · 2012-09-10 02:09 · Score: 2

I have one word for those that think this would be a good idea....Geocities?
From the point of view of the business providing the website, it is a good idea. You can take the money and run because your customers are all dead!
It is a pity that some cybersquatter has managed to nab deathmaskbook.com, because that would be the ideal domain name for the job.
Gadget_Guy likes this post from beyond the grave.
Re:EEEEEEE by RoccamOccam · 2012-09-10 02:10 · Score: 1

In the future, letters and numbers could be obsolete, so how is a QR code any different?
Track record.
Re:EEEEEEE by Zcar · 2012-09-10 02:57 · Score: 1

QR codes have a history of almost 2 decades, mostly for the industrial market. Its widespread popularity came about only in the last few years.
Letters and numbers have been in use for millenia.
QR codes are pretty new on the scene for long term use.
The other side to it is, you're linking that QR code to a URL. Who's to say that will still be valid in even 5 years?
Re:EEEEEEE by JWSmythe · 2012-09-10 02:57 · Score: 1

Actually, it would be *our* numbering and lettering systems would be obsolete. There would be evolutions of it, and other systems. With a little luck, someone would be able to translate it.
Most people can't translate a QR code. Even if they did, what will it contain?
http://www.iseedeadpeople.com/grave.cfm?id=19582921985
[Warning: that was for illustrative purposes. The domain is actually a spammy ad page]
That would be ... well ... completely useless.
In 10 years, the site is rewritten in another programming language. In 100 years current format URLs are obsolete. In 1000 years, it's a curiosity of antiquity. In 10,000 years, having similar marks would probably look like common association of some ancient group. If it does get widespread adoption, it would probably be viewed as a mark of the working class, or maybe the slave class. If it has little adoption, it may be considered to mark of a cult, the rich or the royalty. But why would the royals be buried with the commoners?
I seem to remember something about another project, where they wanted to put USB drives on tomb stones. That's not a long-term solution. It's barely a short term one. As someone else said, put a box of floppies there. That'll last forever. I think I have a floppy drive in the storage room, by the old laserdisc and betamax players. Or did I throw those out with the AT keyboards?

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Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Re:EEEEEEE by nschubach · 2012-09-10 03:07 · Score: 1

I was thinking RIP.com

--
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 03:15 · Score: 1

Mourning the loss of loved ones has been around for thousands of years without ANY technology needed.
Really, this is just fucking sick. Leave technology at the office and the entertainment system, and live like a fucking human being the rest of the time.
Re:EEEEEEE by ShanghaiBill · 2012-09-10 04:06 · Score: 2

The QR codes would only work as advertised if the "cloud" part of the system is still intact.
Not true. A QR code can contain a lot more than just a link. It could contain the deceased's name, identifying info, and links to more than one URL. Also, "the cloud" as it exists could disappear, and the QR code code be relinked to something else.

Otherwise you'd have just some fancy hieroglyphics for future archaelogists to decipher.
QR codes are not that difficult to decipher, even if you were starting from scratch. The are designed to provide info, not hide it. But since the specs are publicly available and widely disseminated, I don't think anyone will be starting from scratch.

If this is the case, why not just carve out the human readable URL of the poor dude's FB/Twitter/G+ page.
Because an individual URL is far more likely to not work in the future, provides far less information, and is less convenient to access since it has to be typed in rather than just pointing a camera at it.
Re:EEEEEEE by ShanghaiBill · 2012-09-10 04:17 · Score: 1

I have one word for those that think this would be a good idea....Geocities?
Poor analogy. Geocities was one company. QR codes are an international standard.

except the cloud is the biggest "here today, gone this afternoon" medium we have.
Are you serious? Post some nude pictures of your daughter, and let us know how ephemeral "the cloud" is. Her picture will probably still be available long after your gravestone has crumbled into dust. Individual sites may come and go, but "the cloud" as a whole will live on. The cloud is the most permanent and robust source of information that humanity has ever devised.
Re:EEEEEEE by Zcar · 2012-09-10 04:24 · Score: 1

Technically, graves are a technology. Embalming is a technology, as is cremation. Gravemarkers are a technology. Caskets are a technology. And so forth. Pretty much everything in a funeral is a technology including having a funeral in the first place. They've just been around so long we don't think of them as "technology".
Re:EEEEEEE by ShanghaiBill · 2012-09-10 04:27 · Score: 1

Mourning the loss of loved ones has been around for thousands of years without ANY technology needed.
And 99.99% of those loved ones are completely forgotten.
I have a copy of my grandmother's bible that her grandmother gave to her. It is more than a century old. There is a copy of our family tree drawn on the back flap that goes back eight generations. Except for the first three generations, I know nothing about these people other than their names. I would love to know something about their life, what they were like, what was important to them. After those eight generations, I don't even know the names.
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:39 · Score: 1

Assuming one does not keep up the webpage, and domain, after one dies, the QR code might not do much good for long.
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:43 · Score: 0

I had my web pages up on AOL's free pages. Their pages lasted slightly longer than Geocities' ones did.
Re:EEEEEEE by camperdave · 2012-09-10 04:51 · Score: 2

QR codes can encode any binary data. They don't need to store a URL to the "cloud". Just load the data into a QR code directly.

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When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 05:09 · Score: 0

"we're talking centuries permanent"
Centuries?
Don't know in your country, but here cemeteries grant concessions of 99 years at the very best (usually 30 to 50) for a grave, unless u pay big bucks for a private chapel (if available).
Re:EEEEEEE by ColdWetDog · 2012-09-10 05:21 · Score: 2

The cloud is the most permanent and robust source of information that humanity has ever devised.
It's a just a little mind boggling that you can call something that is perhaps 50 years old 'permanent and robust'. Especially when it relies on continual functioning of an enormously complex pile of multiple technologies which require the most advanced technical and social system ever cobbled together by humans.
Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 05:53 · Score: 0

Denmark citizens don't have Social Security numbers.
Re:EEEEEEE by uniquename72 · 2012-09-10 07:33 · Score: 1

I have one word for those that think this would be a good idea....Geocities? Anybody remember Geocities?
I remember Geocities -- that's the place where I can still view my old pages via the Internet Archive.
Re:EEEEEEE by Darinbob · 2012-09-10 08:56 · Score: 1

QR codes carved into stone. Right now even 50 years later the normal carved letters start to wear, in 100 years you need to clean a gravestone to read it, in 200 years the letters are worn enough on many that they're difficult to read. People used to add photographs to gravestones, covered in glass or in ceramic, and those don't survive the test of time either.
A QR code has a lot of very find detail, I just don't see it withstanding the elements for a long time. The most they will do for future historians is mark a gravestone as coming from a very specific time period.
Re:EEEEEEE by hairyfeet · 2012-09-10 09:58 · Score: 1

Where the heck is that? I can go find my ancestors going back nearly 170 years in one of our local cemeteries, they being one of the first ones to come over from the first big Irish famine, 1830s I do believe. You can see the big cholera outbreak, marked by whole families buried within a day of each other, the vets from WWi and WWII, all the way up to my sister who cancer took in 07.
Kinda sad that they just toss your history like that.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:EEEEEEE by jamesh · 2012-09-10 11:13 · Score: 1

If this is the case, why not just carve out the human readable URL of the poor dude's FB/Twitter/G+ page.
Because a human readable link to goatse would be a dead giveaway, but with a QR code you might not know until it's too late!
Re:EEEEEEE by julesh · 2012-09-10 17:15 · Score: 1

QR codes can encode any binary data.
As long as it's shorter than about 3k. You're not going to get many "photographs, videos and memories of the dead person from family and friends" in that. You could actually engrave more text on a typical stone than that if you wanted to.
Re:EEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-11 04:39 · Score: 0

Italy.
Yea it's kinda sad
Re:EEEEEEE by Meski · 2012-09-11 14:10 · Score: 1

The QR codes would only work as advertised if the "cloud" part of the system is still intact. Otherwise you'd have just some fancy hieroglyphics for future archaelogists to decipher..
And perhaps the Egyptian's hieroglyphics were that generation's QR codes, but their cloud died. (Image of someone pointing Egyptian smartphone at a pyramid and seeing 404 on its display)

Companies don't live forever. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

If the QR idea takes hold memorials will be able to tell much more to future generations

Or not, if these companies go out of business, which is extremely likely to happen in the next few decades or centuries.

If you want to add additional data, encode it somehow and engrave it on the stone itself. And put an additional tablet in each graveyard explaining the encoding.

Re:Companies don't live forever. by h4rr4r · 2012-09-10 01:17 · Score: 1

Have the QR code be a link to your own website. Have a trust handle the hosting costs and provider.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 01:20 · Score: 2

QR codes can store more data than just a website address. In addition to a URL, name, dates, and a brief biography are reasonable things to include in a large QR code. Future readers could get the website if it's still around (or archived somewhere, assuming the URL follows a suitable format), but even if that's unavailable they could still get more information than just a name.
The problem here is that with more data included, the code's footprint will necessarily increase, or its details will get smaller. One's ugly, and the other's more fragile.

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:22 · Score: 0

Or not, if these companies go out of business, which is extremely likely to happen in the next few years or centuries.
FTFY
Re:Companies don't live forever. by sam1am · 2012-09-10 01:59 · Score: 1

Or not, if these companies go out of business, which is extremely likely to happen in the next few decades or centuries.
or years. or months.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by localman57 · 2012-09-10 02:01 · Score: 1

If the QR idea takes hold memorials will be able to tell much more to future generations
Or not, if these companies go out of business, which is extremely likely to happen in the next few decades or centuries.
If you want to add additional data, encode it somehow and engrave it on the stone itself. And put an additional tablet in each graveyard explaining the encoding.
Tombstones are horribly expensive. At present, i don't think the idea of being able to engrave a significant amount of data into the stone itself is practical.

It seems to me that you might be better off with a different solution. An RFID style passive tag that is actually part of the coffin might be good. Currently availbe technology would allow you to encode a reasonable amount of data including a low-res photo. It would also be useful in cases where the coffin floated to the top in a flood and got moved, or things like that.

If you're dead set on putting a link on the tombstone, I'd recommend a 128 bit GUID, along with some sort of hash of the data it points to. When you die, you submit a zip file of crap you want to a a torrent tracker run by the geneaology nuts. the GUID gives you something to search for. The hash lets you know it is what the deceased intended, and not some modified version. I hate the cloud as much as the next guy, but I trust that system more than any single provider to still have the data in 100 years.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:04 · Score: 2, Informative
The point of headstones isn't to have information available for a few months or years, it's to have information available for centuries . The internet hasn't been around for very long compared to the headstones being used by Genealogists and historians, and there's no guarantee that it won't change completely in the next 20 years in such a way as to be unrecognizable. Carving a URL in stone for future historians a hundred years from now is as pointless as having the phone company list your address as "I'm currently standing in front of the checkout at the grocery store" in the phone book.
For the record, here is a list of things that can go wrong with your plan of using private hosting and having a trust handle the hosting costs:
1. Internet addressing method changes completely in 20+ years, and memorial site is no longer accessible because nobody uses http://.../ for anything, and there aren't any servers running that protocol anymore.
2. Civilization collapses and internet infrastructure is gone, leaving your QR code pointless even if people are able to figure out how to decipher it when civilization eventually recovers.
3. Provider experiences catastrophic systems failure, all sites hosted (including your memorial) are lost.
4. Trust runs out of money due to bad investments or rapidly increasing costs, and provider shuts down site due to lack of payment.
5. QR codes fall out of popularity, as something else becomes popular instead (which then also falls out of popularity, and is replaced by yet another thing), scanning software becomes unavailable, and people wonder why grave markers from 100 years ago all have that weird staticy-looking square on them. Historians hypothesize that it was some kind of tribal identification symbol. Also, they regret that there's no actual useful information about the people buried there.
Like the GP said, you can include the bio in the QR code. Again though, this seems pointless when you can use the same space to just carve the bio in human readable characters if you want it included at all. If you're totally opposed to normal people being able to read it just by looking at the stone with their eyes, have it done in Klingon or something.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:10 · Score: 0

The hash lets you know it is what the deceased intended, and not some modified version. I hate the cloud as much as the next guy, but I trust that system more than any single provider to still have the data in 100 years.
Do you really think the hash will still be secure in 100 years?
Re:Companies don't live forever. by hawguy · 2012-09-10 02:13 · Score: 2

QR codes can store more data than just a website address. In addition to a URL, name, dates, and a brief biography are reasonable things to include in a large QR code. Future readers could get the website if it's still around (or archived somewhere, assuming the URL follows a suitable format), but even if that's unavailable they could still get more information than just a name.
The problem here is that with more data included, the code's footprint will necessarily increase, or its details will get smaller. One's ugly, and the other's more fragile.
The capacity of a QR code sounded a little limiting to hold any kind of meaningful biography (4296 ASCII characters), but after looking around at some obituaries they seem to be mostly around 1200 characters long, the longest I could find in a brief search was only 3100 characters long.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:21 · Score: 0

The point of headstones isn't to have information available for a few months or years, it's to have information available for centuries.
Not really, the point of headstones is to reassure the insecure living that when they are gone they won't be forgotten. Except that people do forget, until they are getting old and insecure and they like to go see the gravestones of all those people who died many years ago and reassure themselves that they won't be forgotten. It just so happens that people in recent years have found this to be a useful resource when researching their family history.
In years past, it was customary to be buried in the churchyard then, after a few (5-10) years when the flesh had rotted away, be dug up and have any remaining bones stored at the charnel house. There was no space in the burial ground for everybody to have a space for hundreds of years..
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Imagix · 2012-09-10 02:39 · Score: 1

An RFID style passive tag that is actually part of the coffin might be good.
Hmm... probably not the coffin. That's under about 6 ft of dirt and enclosed in a cement box. RFID is pretty weak....
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:54 · Score: 0

To give you an idea of how much text that is, 4K is also the rule-of-thumb for the number of characters in a page of text.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by nschubach · 2012-09-10 03:10 · Score: 1

But could you imagine coming across a QR code as a historian and trying to figure out what it means?

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Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by pnot · 2012-09-10 03:19 · Score: 3, Informative

QR codes can store more data than just a website address. In addition to a URL, name, dates, and a brief biography are reasonable things to include in a large QR code.
But at that point you may as well write the brief biography in English, and save your descendants from having to figure out how to read a QR code.
If our forebears had done this a hundred years ago, great-great-grandad's brief biography would be encoded on a bronze punch-card in an encoding nobody can find the documentation for. Text, on the other hand, has been working just fine for millenia.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 03:25 · Score: 1

As an appropriately-trained historian I'd record it according to the available technology of the day (probably at least a handheld 3D laser scanner, by the time QR codes are forgotten) and archive it. Elsewhere, another historian will find a specification for a QR code reader, and eventually a third historian will find both in some archives and make the connection, then some overworked grad student (or the future equivalent of slave labor) will actually write the decoder, and some other historian will take the credit for the discovery.
Modern archaeologists couldn't read hieroglyphs when they were found, either.

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by azadrozny · 2012-09-10 03:35 · Score: 1

When I first read the headline, I thought they were encoding an obituary of some kind, rather than just a web link. As other posters have pointed out, real data would likely stand the test of time, rather than a link to a server that may not exist in 5 years, let alone 500. This all got me thinking though, a QR code is nice, but I have seen many headstones with faded/eroded text, and some were only a 150 years old. For how long is the engraved granite or etched metal going to be readable? Should this info also be buried with the body, or just under the headstone?
Re:Companies don't live forever. by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 03:42 · Score: 1

QR codes are the right tool for the job. Whether the job itself needs doing is a different matter entirely.

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You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by pnot · 2012-09-10 04:00 · Score: 1

QR codes are the right tool for the job. Whether the job itself needs doing is a different matter entirely.
Well, that depends what you think "the job" is. If it's "letting little Suzie use her iphone to retrieve some kind of posthumous Facebook page for her late grandma, for the next five years or so", then yes.
If it's any kind of long-term storage, then no. If it's encoding an actual potted biography rather than a URL, then absolutely no. We have an excellent encoding for that already; it's called the alphabet.
Re:Companies don't live forever. by vlm · 2012-09-10 04:39 · Score: 1

If our forebears had done this a hundred years ago, great-great-grandad's brief biography would be encoded on a bronze punch-card in an encoding nobody can find the documentation for. Text, on the other hand, has been working just fine for millenia.
So encode in text instead of a zip file of a rar file of a par2 archive of a DRMed video codec.
Amusingly enough as a "retrocomputing enthusiast" I can read paper tape and punch cards using Mark I Eyeball pretty well. I have to look up online at the numerous wikis and pdf documentation collections to remember exactly how it works for each media and device, but its no great challenge to reverse engineer given some raw material. If you think what amounts to the most trivial possible substitution code imaginable will utterly stump future generations of cryptographers then you must have an extremely "idiocracy" view of the future.
Something like a UPC code complete with checksum verification isn't too hard to do in your head and/or reverse engineer. Been there done that. That's life when you're bored and working retail.
A QR code might be a bit of a challenge. URLs would suck to reverse engineer, if you'd never seen a URL, but a text QR code of my long and distinguished /. posting history would be pretty easy to figure out since its merely substandard english language prose.
You have to realize the military cryptographers and DRM hackers are pretty good at pulling digital information outta sources when the source tries their best to stop them... given a dataset where no one is trying to stop them, your average cryptographer is just going to laugh at how easy it is. Why, paper tape and punch cards are just simple substitution ciphers, given enough english language prose, a simple frequency analysis of glyphs will crack it wide open, assuming you don't notice one of the obvious binary encodings is in binary order alphabetically (little endian vs big endian)

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"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Re:Companies don't live forever. by vlm · 2012-09-10 04:46 · Score: 1

Tombstones are horribly expensive. At present, i don't think the idea of being able to engrave a significant amount of data into the stone itself is practical.
Don't confuse the "death industry" which sucks as much money as possible out of grieving people with technological limitations and actual economic issues.
Ask a machinist how much a substandard (by machinist standards, aka less smooth than a front surface mirror, etc) granite surface plate would cost, or perhaps a home center big box store how much the cutout for the sink in a granite counter top costs. Then talk to some engravers. Be careful because they also tend to price aspirationally, so if a bridesmaids gift should cost $50 guess how much the engraved whatever will be priced at... of course the cost to engrave is much less.
Tombstone's always going to be priced at $1000 because thats the most the grieving family can afford to pay, but there's so much profit built in that the cost to create that tombstone is pretty much a rounding error of the price charged. So it'll cost $10 of QR code engraving to make that $1000 tombstone instead of $5 now. Eh.

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"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Re:Companies don't live forever. by j00r0m4nc3r · 2012-09-10 07:53 · Score: 1

save your descendants from having to figure out how to read a QR code.

This sounds like a good "Brewster's Millions" move. Leave in your will a statement that says you have encoded the location of $10,000,000 and laugh from the grave as your greedy heirs try to figure it out...
Re:Companies don't live forever. by pnot · 2012-09-10 07:54 · Score: 1

You have to realize the military cryptographers and DRM hackers are pretty good at pulling digital information outta sources when the source tries their best to stop them... given a dataset where no one is trying to stop them, your average cryptographer is just going to laugh at how easy it is.
I'm sorry, perhaps I was unclear. I didn't mean that it would be an unbreakable code. I'm sure that future archaeologists will be able to reverse-engineer the QR codes. And I'm sure it would be an entertaining challenge for them.
On the other hand, for the regular schmucks who just want to read great-grandpa's tombstone, it would be a ludicrous and utterly pointless inconvenience, since you could just write the text on the tombstone instead.

So encode in text instead of a zip file of a rar file of a par2 archive of a DRMed video codec.
Exactly. Except that by "encode in text", I mean "encode in text", not "encode in ASCII in a QR code".

QR codes != information by OleMoudi · 2012-09-10 01:17 · Score: 0

"If the QR idea takes hold memorials will be able to tell much more to future generations."

Not necessarily. QR codes are only links to other resources, they can't hold useful information by themselves. The availability of the information depends on the provider of the content they refer to.

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Thinking never hurt anybody --MacGyver

Re:QR codes != information by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:21 · Score: 0

>QR codes are only links to other resources
No they're not. Sure they can hold links, but they are primarily designed to hold text and numbers.
I'm not sure that it may "tell more to the future generations" thought.
Re:QR codes != information by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 01:24 · Score: 3, Informative

Wrong. QR codes can store over 2KB of arbitrary binary data.

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You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Re:QR codes != information by afidel · 2012-09-10 02:08 · Score: 2

I don't think the version 40 QR code is going to be feasible in granite. The version 4 seems the most likely to survive and it's only 50 characters.

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Re:QR codes != information by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 02:21 · Score: 2

Printed on the back side of the stone as a 6" square, the version 40 code has large enough pixels that a deep engraving could survive a century or two.

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Re:QR codes != information by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:49 · Score: 0

Then it wouldn't last as long as the older headstone information in a cemetery in my town. There's some about 250 years old.
Re:QR codes != information by Carnildo · 2012-09-10 08:52 · Score: 1

A six-inch version 40 code has pixels slightly less than a millimeter on a side. If you carve the code deep enough to survive a century of erosion, isolated raised pixels are likely to break off either during the carving process or with the first freeze/thaw cycle.
To survive a century, you really want the minimum feature size to be at least five millimeters, which works out to a version 40 code that's three feet across.

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"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.

Future generations? by pnot · 2012-09-10 01:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

If the QR idea takes hold memorials will be able to tell much more to future generations.

Uh huh. How many future generations? For how long are QR codes going to be a popular format, and for how long are these companies going to be around?

Re:Future generations? by h4rr4r · 2012-09-10 01:38 · Score: 1

QR codes may not be popular for long, but they are easy enough to build a program to read. Do you really think future humans will be carrying around weaker computers than we are now?
The company being around is not that important considering you can store ~2KB in a QR code.
Re:Future generations? by Minwee · 2012-09-10 02:04 · Score: 5, Funny

QR codes may not be popular for long, but they are easy enough to build a program to read. Do you really think future humans will be carrying around weaker computers than we are now?
The company being around is not that important considering you can store ~2KB in a QR code.
Wonderful. Future humans with their amazingly powerful computers will be able to decipher such amazing messages as "http://www.qr-memories.co.uk/memorials4less/115223/b11235/4.gif".
Through sufficiently advanced technology, future generations may eventually use that message to discover that their great uncle Leon's favourite number was 404.
Re:Future generations? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:10 · Score: 0

Pick out a random person on the street, and ask them to write a program to translate QR codes. The chances of them actually being able to do so are roughly equal to the chances of them calling for the police. Also, it doesn't matter if they're carrying around weaker computers, or digital watches with more computing power than all of the computers currently on earth, if they don't have (or want to write) a program to translate it, and more significantly, if the company providing this "service" no longer exists.
Re:Future generations? by gman003 · 2012-09-10 02:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

More to the point, how long are QR codes on a tombstone going to be readable?
When I visited England, I visited several churches and graveyards. Some of them were barely legible, after sitting out in the rain (and acid rain) for centuries. I know QR codes have a lot of error correction on them, but are they going to be readable after 1cm of stone has eroded away?
Re:Future generations? by IcyHando'Death · 2012-09-10 02:40 · Score: 1

Sorry man, my mod points expired this morning, or it bump this. Yeah, carving a link into stone seems like the height of absurdity given the transient nature of the web. "404 not found" is likely to be of less use to genealogists and historians than the summary seems to suggest.
Re:Future generations? by IcyHando'Death · 2012-09-10 02:53 · Score: 1

Even better, imagine the family's mortification when this happens: http://www.pcworld.com/article/87824/porn_sites_hijack_expired_domain_names.html
New business opportunity: headstone QR code removal service.
Re:Future generations? by GreatRedShark · 2012-09-10 03:39 · Score: 1

Exactly. I wonder what an archaeologist will think of the QR codes when they dig up one of these headstones in a few thousand years?
The text might still be comprehensible to some scholars, but I doubt the website backing the QR codes will still be live.
Re:Future generations? by Bigby · 2012-09-10 03:56 · Score: 1

It would be far easier and less costly to just use GPS and OCR on the tombstone to find a best match. Or present a list based on GPS.
But let's spend a bunch of money we don't need to spend...
Re:Future generations? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:24 · Score: 0

Larger QR codes can store a large amount of information, they were after all originally used for part identification, they are the same concept as bar codes but in 2d instead of 1d. Being able to take a quick picture of one with a low quality cell phone camera is just a convenient way to enter urls. Your entire message could fit inside of a QR code. The advantage of the QR code is that it can have error correction so that if a large portion were no longer readable the error correction could fix it (try covering the corner of a QR code sometime, it still works)
Re:Future generations? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 06:21 · Score: 0

So instead of using the QR code to store *only* a URL of the memorial site, use it to store a plain-text biography of the person, which *includes* a URL for the memorial site. That way, even if (when) the site no longer exists, the biography itself will still survive in a durable, easily decoded format. It's still better than:
Joe Schmoe
1988-2025
He was a good husband.
Re:Future generations? by Minwee · 2012-09-10 07:35 · Score: 1

And yet, RTFA yields this plan:

In the UK, funeral directors Chester Pearce offer QR codes engraved in granite or metal that attach to headstones. benches, plaques, buildings and even trees. The codes link to a page on its QR Memories website.
Encoding large amounts of information would be a good idea, but that's not what's being done here.

QR code ubiquity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:18 · Score: 0

Is anyone else bothered by the QR code 'takeover' of some businesses' aesthetic senses? I've seen local restaurants with elegant signage (think black background, flowing cursive font, mature and understated design overall) RUINED by prominent QR codes.

Who thinks this is a good idea when someone could just put a small text URL, or god forbid, rely on people using the business' name in a search instead splashing techno-shit all over attractive visual elements?

Re:QR code ubiquity by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 01:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

Thanks to the error correction algorithms and necessarily-lenient recognition, QR codes can be colorful, stylized, and smoothly integrated into most graphic designs.
Of course, the disconnect between nerds who know this and the artists who make the signs means we'll be stuck with ugly QR codes for a while.

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Re:QR code ubiquity by h4rr4r · 2012-09-10 01:39 · Score: 2, Funny

RUINED?
A poster with a QR code ruins the look?
White people problems.
Re:QR code ubiquity by Inda · 2012-09-10 02:28 · Score: 1

There are plenty of people with their faces poorly encoded into QR codes. I've seen many on people's avatars. There's even a website that does this for you. I couldn't get mine to be recognisable though :(

I've also seen the BBC characters visible on a QR code, so it can be done.

--
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Re:QR code ubiquity by idji · 2012-09-10 05:31 · Score: 1

Why does everybody go with the marketing hype of QR? Datamatrix is far superior, has better redundancy and holds much more data in the same space. You could even put the entire content into the Datamatrix as plain text, rather than just an URL to deadwebsite.com. Or better yet, burn the image into a crystal surface optically covered by a very thick & transparent protective layer, that can be viewed optically by any macroscopic lens on any kids iPhone63 in the next decades.
Re:QR code ubiquity by Sarten-X · 2012-09-10 06:12 · Score: 1

My understanding is that while Data Matrix has better error correction for misread bits, it is not as resilient to damage as QR when it comes to missing chunks of the matrix. Its largest standard size also holds less than the largest QR code.

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.

+5 Monday Morning by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Looks like I chose the wrong week to try and avoid stupidity.

This is the stupidest idea I've heard since Friday. I must be reading Slashdot again.

R.I.P by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:21 · Score: 1, Funny

Thus, behold, all that will be on my tombstone
8=======D ~~~~ ( . )( . )

Re:R.I.P by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:28 · Score: 0

It will fit in that 2k that a QR code holds... You're golden!
Re:R.I.P by CanHasDIY · 2012-09-10 03:38 · Score: 1

Thus, behold, all that will be on my tombstone 8=======D ~~~~ ( . )( . )
Man, what a dick!

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese

What will future generations really see? by ljhiller · 2012-09-10 01:26 · Score: 4, Funny

Get the best deals on:
Cars
Mortgages
Viagra
This website www . eternalmemories . com is available. (C) 2015 Godaddy.com

Nothing is so impermanent as an online web service.

Re:What will future generations really see? by MarkGriz · 2012-09-10 01:56 · Score: 1

Or, how long before someone slaps on a new QR code for a Rickroll.

--
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Re:What will future generations really see? by maxwell+demon · 2012-09-10 07:49 · Score: 1

Or a hacker puts a QR code for some exploit on his tombstone ... afterlife hacking!

--
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.

Good Thing / Bad Thing by X!0mbarg · 2012-09-10 01:27 · Score: 1

On the Plus side, it'll save space in crowded cemeteries, as they won't need so much space to list the Dearly Departed. Particularly, in mausoleums, and content can be changed and updated as needed without costly stone replacements.

The bad news is, a memorial wall of nondescript QR codes will mean the non-technologically equipped will see nothing more than a bewildering array of QRs, and can't pinpoint their loved ones name.

Even worse: the dearly departed can have their web-ghost hacked by the unscrupulous, and serve up viruses and/or mal-ware, or simply bombard the grieving family member(s) with "inappropriate content" such as Ads (both commercial and less-than friendly)

Scanning a Memorial Wall could result in a cacophony of Ads in poor taste, Vogon-grade poetry, and sex scenes drowning out the messages of the departed.

And THEN, there will be Lawsuits!

Re:Good Thing / Bad Thing by Bieeanda · 2012-09-10 02:22 · Score: 1

Stone replacements? Saving space? You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

base64 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:28 · Score: 1

So why not just put the whole information IN the gravestone itself as a bunch of base64-encoded images? ...or just plain text?. There are some QR formats that allow such things, no need to host the damn thing on the interwebs anyway. Anything you'd want in 1264 characters or less (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Design)

In any case, I see this as a very short-lived experiment. Why don't they just carve a portrait of the person and a short bio on the back of the stone and let *them* figure it out after N-generations? I mean, besides time and costs...oh, and skill...or maybe that robotic arm that carves people up...in the stones I mean.

Have some friggin' common sense FFS.

Obilg. by Kell+Bengal · 2012-09-10 01:30 · Score: 2

Last post!

--
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.

Rickroll from the grave by Centurix · 2012-09-10 01:36 · Score: 1

It's not the zombies you need to worry about, it's the post-mortem trolling.

--
Task Mangler

RFID by jbeaupre · 2012-09-10 01:47 · Score: 1

Might as well slap an RFID tag on while you're at it. Or an E-Ink display (solar powered, natch).

Seriously. Who's wandering around cemeteries going "Gee, if I only had detailed biographical information on this random dead dude?" I thought the accepted practice was to visit dead people you knew about.

--
The world is made by those who show up for the job.

Re:RFID by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:55 · Score: 0

What, never spent hours in graveyards making up stories about the lives of the people buried there? I guess you've never dated a goth girl.
And it would be kind of neat to know the name and bio of the woman on whose grave we fucked.
Re:RFID by jbeaupre · 2012-09-10 02:18 · Score: 1

I think you would have had a lot less fun if you had watched clips of her and her cats try on funny hats.

--
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Re:RFID by gman003 · 2012-09-10 02:21 · Score: 1

Also, looking for stupid and/or awesome names. Eg. a certain "Manley Powers", died in the 16th century IIRC.
Re:RFID by vlm · 2012-09-10 04:55 · Score: 1

Who's wandering around cemeteries going "Gee, if I only had detailed biographical information on this random dead dude?"
They're called genealogists. All I really know about my G-G-G-G-Grannie is where she's buried, so ... yeah that would be me/us. Its a fun life long hobby. It can tend to be a bit of a grind, much some psuedo-RPG computer games have quests like "gimme 50 wolf pelts" some genealogists spend inordinate amounts of time collecting ancient census records or pictures of gravestones or whatever.
You know whats really freaky? I've got 30 year old digitized pictures of gravestones that were barely readable then and are completely unreadable now. I'm older than granite or at least cheap granite.

--
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger

The potential market's enormous by Swampash · 2012-09-10 01:50 · Score: 1

I mean, just check this out! Updated daily!

http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/

How about we just get rid of cemeteries? by hsmith · 2012-09-10 01:51 · Score: 1

They are absolute wastes of land. You have acres of land tied up around here for 100+ year old graves that absolutely no one ever visits.

Grave sites are only for the living who just lost someone, which I understand. But, how often are they visited by those who have had someone pass?

Re:How about we just get rid of cemeteries? by Hazel+Bergeron · 2012-09-10 02:15 · Score: 0

First I get to take over your land because I don't think you deserve it.
Then you get to take over all the graveyards.
Re:How about we just get rid of cemeteries? by DigiShaman · 2012-09-10 02:34 · Score: 1

I agree. Not only that, but it's really best to just "let go" and not provide the living with a compelling reason to go back to a site to grieve yet again. As strange as it sounds, I find that people have an easier time with an urn of ashes setting on a shelf in the home someplace. It's always there, and yet people don't grieve as much. Or so that's always been my impression.

--
Life is not for the lazy.
Re:How about we just get rid of cemeteries? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:57 · Score: 0

They are absolute wastes of land. You have acres of land tied up around here for 100+ year old graves that absolutely no one ever visits.
Grave sites are only for the living who just lost someone, which I understand. But, how often are they visited by those who have had someone pass?
How much are you willing to sell grandma's grave for? You don't want it.

They will see: Goatse! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 01:55 · Score: 0

I can see the look on grandma's face now when she pulls up uncle Henry's web page and gets goatse instead.

The problem with QR codes is you can't see where they go. I'm waiting for someone to start spreading Goatse QR codes around their city to catch unsuspecting people by surprise.

Wanna Bet??? by RobertLTux · 2012-09-10 02:09 · Score: 1

http://www.laurencemartin.org/codeblock2.png if you find a good decoder this proves you wrong in the most brutal way possible.

--
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge

Re:Wanna Bet??? by grnbrg · 2012-09-10 08:02 · Score: 1

Well played, sir.

I already designed mine by paiute · 2012-09-10 02:16 · Score: 1

Here Lies Paiute
[citation needed]

--
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine

Re:I already designed mine by treeves · 2012-09-10 11:21 · Score: 1

Well, your sig is finally relevant to the article!

--
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.

That's almost as funny as... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:21 · Score: 0

...putting this ascii art on your tombstone.
It even has the obligatory R.I.P.

Once all that was has passed: by Nationless · 2012-09-10 02:23 · Score: 1

Future/Alien Archeologists are going to have a field day trying to decipher those.

QR code horizon by jgotts · 2012-09-10 02:26 · Score: 1

QR codes are extremely unlikely to persist any longer than ten years. If you've programmed a point-of-sale system like me you probably know that there are more coding schemes for barcodes than you can shake a stick at. QR codes are just the current encoding fad that will soon be replaced by something better.

Seriously? by Inda · 2012-09-10 02:29 · Score: 1

After I'm gone you want to place a QR code on my gravestone?

Over my dead body.

--
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.

Problems with diffrent religions ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 02:50 · Score: 0

I guess the good folk of that company did not read the short story "thecemetery.com"

http://www.heise.de/tp/magazin/lit/36707/1.html (german)

Guess what would happen if a Virtual Gravesite from Religion A is on the same harddrive as Religion B, and Religion A does not like B very much.

Think again :)

QR codes store information.. by xtal · 2012-09-10 02:50 · Score: 2

A referral to an online service is pretty stupid for a long-term idea. Nobody will care in 100 years.

What IS neat is QR codes can store information directly, in a standard format, that can be manually decoded BY HAND if you have to. This is useful for "the long haul". Most people are not aware there are different sizes of QR codes, and the standard encoding can hold a kilobyte or so of information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code

Etching the QR code on the stone is not ideal. If I wanted it to last very long time, I'd look at using a gold or platinum protective film (perferably coated as to not look valuable) with the QR code lithographically etched onto an aluminum plate, or something along those lines.

A more interesting idea would be the design of a long-life semiconductor that could flash out a message in morse code. I think it'd be feasible to design something that would remain functional for 100 years or more with current technology. Maybe more with descretes, and if you didn't want to have an onboard power source like a small solar cell / gold ultracapacitor.

For really long term, it has to be decodable by hand or with the information on the device.

Mortality is a bitch.

--
..don't panic

Why not use an existing company? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 03:06 · Score: 0

You know, the family members that are most likely to do something like this would be the same group who enjoy geneology anyway. There IS a company for that on the net... ancestory.com
If ANY company will survive for generations to come it would be them... until google buys them. ;)
seriously, they have a huge userbase that pays them month after month. Data storage is cheap enough, especially for a well established company. And connecting people with their family history IS their business.

pointless by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 03:33 · Score: 0

I don't need this, I've already arranged for my myspace page address to be engraved on my headstone.

Maintenance fees? by dpilot · 2012-09-10 03:38 · Score: 1

This won't come for free. There are many parties involved in a funeral, they're all businesses to some extent or another, and they all have they're hand out, looking to meet their revenue needs. Since TFA talks about QR codes on headstones, this sounds localized to the cemetery/mausoleum. They have physical control, so they would be the managing party, even if they contracted the job out.

So the costs of this idea are a web server setup, possibly wireless access, etc. I would guess that they would be run on a "trust fund" kind of basis. Pay a fee at internment, and the interest pays for ongoing maintenance. I would imagine that pay-by-year would last until someone had a tight year, the a few years later someone else would ask/pay to resume service, hope the data still existed, and all of that other messy stuff.

Next complication, assuming it's contracted out, would the cemetery/mausoleum management insist on owning the data, even as they're contracting out pretty much the entire project? Otherwise, what happens to the data when either the IT contractor goes under, the relationship goes sour, or whatever?

--
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.

Taking Bets! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 03:40 · Score: 0

Here's your chance to get rich!

I'll bet you that in ten years, not two centuries, ten years almost no one will remember what a QR code is and it will be extremely difficult, nigh on impossible, to find a means of decoding one.

Ever heard of a Cue Cat? There is still lots of information available about it and plenty of software. So decoding should be easy. Right?

So, tell us what the meaning of this is. Where did it point? What did it represent?

My wager is that the ability to decode QR codes will be as easy in ten years as the Cue code is now.

Re:Taking Bets! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 06:13 · Score: 0

What, you think that because you have a picture of a 1-dimensional bar code which reads: 10 00 00 00 00 01, that *no* bar code format can store useful information directly in the bar code?
By that logic, if I write '10 00 00 00 00 01' using the English alphabet, no string of text can store useful information.
I don't have to put a link to a site in a QR code. I can put quite a bit of raw, plain-text in a QR code instead. Doing it that way means you don't have to do a database lookup to determine what information the QR code is 'storing', because the data is *all local*.
Here's an example for you: Link to a QR Code generator.
The site that generated that QR code limits itself to 160 characters (for free), but QR codes can be used to store significantly more than that (4k of plain-text, for example.)

Here lies ... by PPH · 2012-09-10 03:47 · Score: 1

... The Cloud. Once, we trusted it as the repository of our knowledge and history. But it, and its safekeeping are no longer with us.

Lovingly scratched on a rock, by the light of a tallow candle.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Instead? by PPH · 2012-09-10 03:54 · Score: 1

Oh, that crazy uncle Henry! Still showing off after all this time.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

"Photographs, videos, and memories"? by Chris+Mattern · 2012-09-10 04:05 · Score: 1

A QR code can hold less than 3 kilobytes. You might be able to squeeze a few pages of text, but anything more data-intensive than that, you'll have to put in a URL or some such that points to it. And how long will that be good?

QR ECC levels by tepples · 2012-09-10 04:14 · Score: 1

a QR code is nice, but I have seen many headstones with faded/eroded text, and some were only a 150 years old. For how long is the engraved granite or etched metal going to be readable?

Most marketing uses of QR codes use "level L" or "level M" error correction. Codes using these ECC levels can be read with 93% or 85% of the symbol intact respectively. But QR can also be configured with "level Q", such that the message can be reconstructed from 75% of the symbol. This results in a larger symbol (and thus smaller squares).

Should this info also be buried with the body, or just under the headstone?

Both. Engrave another copy of the symbol and bury it with the body.

The more Rosetta stones, the better by tepples · 2012-09-10 04:20 · Score: 1

Elsewhere, another historian will find a specification for a QR code reader, and eventually a third historian will find both in some archives and make the connection

And to make this even easier, engrave a copy of this spec to store in each cemetery where this system is used.

Geo Memorial mashup with Maps or Google Glass by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:23 · Score: 0

Imagine using a GPS to get memorial information, or having a layer on Google Maps or a layer on Google Glass that includes memorial information. We could call it GeoMemorial. Allow anyone, anywhere, to add geomemorial info to a specific location - a home, an accident site, etc.

Someday, maybe people will drive/cycle/walk around town with their Google Glass memorial layer enabled, and they'll see what people have tagged at random locations. Attach ads to the memorials, and profit.

Imagine buying/renting a house, and finding out that the ghosts of the past will never die because of GeoMemorial(s) that are attached to it, in the cloud, out of your control.

I've been looking into this. by Dee+Ann_1 · 2012-09-10 04:26 · Score: 0

My mom recently passed away and I had seen a news clip somewhere about this.
I wanted (and still want to) do this for her, for my dad when his time comes and for some of my other relatives that have long since passed away but are all but forgotten now except by the few remaining survivors. I would love to do something to honor and respect their memories and their pasts.

So I looked at the website that offers the QR service for memorials, lifemarker.com

This was the biggest question I had and I found the answer I expected.

Q: How long will the LifeMarkerTM web archive be maintained?
A: Web archive page(s) that comply with the terms and conditions of LifeMarkerTM, LLC will be maintained for as long as the company is in business.

Well we all know how long companies stay in business. Not very long.
So what I'm doing now is trying to find a way to put something online that will stay online for 100 years (or as long as the internet is alive).

Another thing about the company, the sample they exhibit didn't really impress me. So it's time to roll my own.

I'm thinking buy a domain and hosting and put up any content you want. Make sure that archive.org crawls it. Then generate a QR code for the archive.org copy of your content. You can generate your own QR code easily. Then find someone that can do ceramics and have it put onto a ceramic tile. Lots of people do ceramics as a hobby. Find a way to attach it to the headstone that will never turn loose. There must be a ~permanent~ adhesive.

I'm sure this isn't the best way to do it but it's just something I pulled out of thin air. I need to do a lot more research on it but I honestly have little faith in that lifemarker company being around for long, much less any other company.

Re:I've been looking into this. by networkBoy · 2012-09-10 08:25 · Score: 1

chemically litho etched nickel plate will last longer than the ceramic tile. To affix it use either stainless or nickel lag screws.
Bonus points if you can have it covered in glass by a glassblower to protect the nickel, that should give you a couple decades (or one vandal) before the nickel is exposed.
-nb

--
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump

think bigger by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:39 · Score: 0

Why not put an actual PDF417 or something that can hold a couple kb of compressed data and actually write an article/eulogy/obituary?

QR code on Elvis grave ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 04:49 · Score: 0

If I could license or just tag it in the night ... QR code on Elvis grave ...
Nice place for link whoring

Dead Link by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-10 07:06 · Score: 0

QR codes are a current 'FAD' technology. In 20 years, no one will remember what they were, and will have to go to a history book to find out what the funny symbol meant. If they try to go to the site where the information should be stored: 'dead link'. Words and pictures, etched on the stone, will last several hundred years (thousands if the impressions are deep enough and if the stone is free of acid rain). And better than that, be understandable without any technology (obsolete or otherwise). The QR codes will almost certainly be obsolete in 10 years, but the odd obsolete symbol will remain much longer than that.

It's already being done in the United States by lthown · 2012-09-10 07:49 · Score: 1

http://www.memorymedallion.com/ (I bought one for my Mother In Law's headstone) puts a portion of the monies into an escrow account to keep the servers running. I'm happy with the service and customer support.

127 comments