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Samsung Expected To Sue Apple Over iPhone 5 LTE Networking
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Geek.com: "The courtroom battle between Apple and Samsung seems to be far from over, and come tomorrow Apple is in for a major headache as soon as it makes the iPhone 5 official. That's because Samsung is poised to sue the company over patents it owns relating to LTE connectivity the new smartphone is expected to use. All Samsung needs to confirm is that the iPhone 5 is shipping with 4G LTE and it can then apparently set its lawyers into action. As is typical with these patent lawsuits, Samsung will most likely seek an import ban meaning the iPhone 5 may not be able to leave its manufacturing plants and make it to the U.S. to fulfill pre-orders. If such a thing ruling was made, Apple would most likely do a deal that meant it no longer pursued Samsung product bans, and might even forget about that billion dollar payout." Samsung's not the only one hoping to gain some leverage: itwbennett writes, "Apple's iPhone 5 and iPad 3 may violate a pair of patents bought by HTC back in April 2011 that cover methods used in 4G devices for faster downloads. International Trade Commission judge Thomas Pender said it would take 'clear and convincing' evidence to renounce the U.S. patents."
Let's just have an official monopoly on cell phones. Then the government could suppress competition directly and completely, instead of this piecemeal price raising done through patents.
With any luck, this tangled web of patent wars will go on for so long, and reach such an intensity, that legislatures will finally recognize the problems with current patent laws. If our court system has to be tied up into a knot who's density rivals that of dark matter in order to get the point across, then so be it.
Yay!! Patents are awesome!!!
I have the patent upon First Posts - you'll hear from my lawyers; Dewey, Skruem & Howe
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
now that Steve Jobs is dead, there is no reason to continue his personal thermonuclear war. Tim Cook should get together with Samsung, Google, HTC et al and sign the equivalent of ABM treaty and cross-license all patents like all normal industries.
There is no way in hell this is possible. They made a phone centered around an entire transmission technology that another company owns and they didn't have a license for? THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE. No company is that stupid. You don't assemble an entire product and then cross your fingers and hope Samsung licenses it out to you AND THEN sue them for 1 billion dollars and win. Surprise, no LTE for you. What is really going on here? How legitimate is the patent(s) Samsung holds? I'm going to take a guess they don't own LTE itself in its entirety at least, right?
The only winners here are the law firms. The customers suffer limited feature availibility rather than a enjoy a robust market of the best each manufacturer can produce. It's a pretty rotten system. "You can only buy what our lawyers and patent portfolio will allow you to from out competitors" Really makes the patent system look like a tool of would-be monopolists.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
As soon as 1 congressman's iPhone 5 pre-order isn't fulfilled, I guarantee you they'll do something about it.
I have the patent upon threatening people with lawsuits - you'll hear from my lawyers; Curly, Larry & Moe
Lobbyists only really flourish because of how divided the public is on most major issues; they can be shouted down when people are coordinated and loud enough. Remember that SOPA and PIPA had a many lobbyists, and a LOT of lobby money behind it. The problem right now is that your average person isn't concerned about the problems with patent law, either because they don't recognize the problem, or they consider the topic too difficult to invest time into. Let's just imagine, for a second, that Samsung wins this upcoming patent battle, and the iPhone 5 gets an import ban in the US. THAT will move the common man to action, and if it is explained to them that our broken patent laws are responsible, there will almost certainly be enough of an outcry for congress to do something that they'll do it, even if they have to step on a few lobbyist toes to do so.
It doesn't matter who fired first anymore.
none
But I doubt it will take the form of fixing the patent system.
Likely just calling in favors to be sure he gets his phone first.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Just as Samsung's failed 3G (UMTS) lawsuit..this one will fail too.
There is a tiny but mighty detail : patent exhaustion.
Apple, well all phones, uses transceiver chips by Qualcomm or a competitor of them. Qualcomm/whatever has licensed all relevant patents to make those chips. Any buyer of such a transceiver is automatically covered by that license.
Patent exhaustion will thereby nullify any lawsuit. It's simply an empty threat by Samsung.
Even worse. Both, the EU and the SK government are investigating Samsung for FRAND patent abuse. It will get only worse for them now as it is evident that Samsung is not playing by the rules.
There is some indication this is already happening. The Congressional Research Service released a report about it, and the report even used the word "Trolls" in the title.
Still the report is weak on actual recommendations, and spends a portion of its content defending trolls. Its encouraging for an arm of congress to even use the term Trolls, but with no clue as to a recommended solution there is a long way to go.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Why didn't these two companies realize this and come to some kind of truce before it ever got to court?
Because Apple made the stupid move of suing Samsung in the first place. The telecommunications and technology companies were previously in a sort of Mutually Assured Destruction scenario: where everybody held patents that they could sue almost any other company for, but they kept quiet so long as those other companies didn't sue in turn. It wasn't a good system by any means, but it more or less worked. Apple suing Samsung was the equivalent of throwing MAD out the window and jamming their finger on the big red button, and praying everybody is dead before they get a chance to fire back. Surprise surprise: Samsung is still alive, they also have a big red button, and they're pissed.
The big difference for me is that there are many ways to design the look and feel of a tablet, but few ways to make a 4g lte device. Based on Samsung and htc patents, is it even possible to design around them? I thought that was the purpose of frand licensing, to prevent monopolistic behavior.
It should be fun to watch, especially since I live in a country where Apple doesn't dictate what can and cannot be imported.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Samsung and HTC both have standard FRAND licensing rates. However, generally everyone just cross-licenses patents instead of paying cash royalties.
Apple doesn't want to cross-license, but also complains that the (standard, charged the same to everyone) cash royalty rates are too high.
I have the patent upon First Posts - you'll hear from my lawyers; Dewey, Skruem & Howe
beating the obvious to death: did Mr. Cheathem, Esq. retire, leaving a partnership to Mr. Skruem?
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Those who live by the patent, die by the patent.
No sig today...
It seems so. I've also heard rumors of Mr. Wen joining the firm.
Qualcomm already licenses the necessary 4G/LTE patents when making their wireless radios. Samsung has tried, and failed, in the past to also charge those who are purchasing the radios (in this case Apple). This is nothing but FUD.
So then why all the sympathy for Samsung? They have their own history of patent suits long before their current spat with Apple. They have also been part of cartels that have conspired in price fixing on DRAM chips and LCD panels, etc. Samsung is one of the companies least worthy of sympathy right up their with Apple themselves. Samsung has contributed to the patent idiocy and should have no sympathy when it is brought to bear on them.
Can you give an example where Samsung has used patents to block competitor's products from being sold on the market before that whole showdown with Apple?
You're seeing the little picture. Step back and see the big picture.
This is not and never was about any particular issue that Apple is suing anyone over in any particular court.
The recent Samsung case is not about Trade Dress (eg, Rounded Corner rectangles, etc). Other Apple lawsuits are not about the specific claims Apple is complaining about (eg, bouncy scrolling, pinch to zoom, searching more than one database at a time, etc).
For example, Samsung specifically designed a phone (Galaxy S 3) to avoid any kind of trade dress lawsuit. So what did Apple do? Sue over some other equally trivial issue.
What this is really about is that Apple doesn't want any competition. Apple feels like the entire Smartphone industry is God's Exclusive Gift to Apple by Divine Right. Apple should never have to license others' patents, even at standard rates, because Apple is special. Never mind that others have been in the business for decades. Apple should have it all now because Apple wants it all.
This is not your dad's Apple Computer anymore. This is a monopolist wannabe monster that is as bad or worse than Microsoft ever was.
I wouldn't care if Apple just wanted to have their walled garden, sell lots of toys, make boatloads (and more boatloads) of money, and leave me alone. But no, Apple wants to force me to buy their product and only their product. I can't have one of the over 4,000 Android devices that come in every size, shape, color, style and price from lots of manufacturers and on ever mobile network. So now that Apple wants to affect me, I suddenly care passionately, just like I did once with Microsoft.
How much is enough Apple? What do you want? Blood? Would that satisfy you? Aren't you successful enough to just leave everyone else alone?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Probably because of the rounded corners bit, along with Jobs threatening to go nuclear on Android. You don't threaten anything Google around here, even though their company is built on ripping others off from YouTube piracy to wholesale book theft, but since they use Linux internally you aren't allowed to mention that.
Personally i think ALL these megacorps are spoiled backstabbing little shits and hope the lawyers bleed the whole damned bunch dry. i'll kick back with the popcorn and laugh and laugh as they blow fortunes trying to fuck each other over.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Well there are lots of ways to get your data across the air: light, smoke, ultrasound, you name it - but the LTE design is Samsungs and they think that innovation helps consumers. Rectangular, round corners have been the defacto way of doing mobile phones the last 15 or so years, therefore it should be a free standard for all to use... Or does it only work when Apple doesn't get it's candy?
Sure can would you like more? This one also references Samsung suing Fujitsu as well in 2003. Samsung is just as much complicit in patent madness as anyone else. They are hardly innocent bystanders. There are more that can be found with additional searching.
So Apple claims but that is not standard industry practice. There are people attempting to make patent pools around cellphone technologies but they are mostly unsuccessful. Qualcomm is actually one of the major offenders since they refuse to join any patent pools.
Samsung didn't start the fight against Spansion.
Samsung discloses in the complaint that on November 17, 2008, Spansion filed a complaint with the ITC alleging that Samsung and others import, sell for importation, or sell after importation into the U.S. products that allegedly infringe four of Spansionâ(TM)s patents. Samsung states that the ITC instituted an investigation in response to Spansionâ(TM)s complaint, which is now pending as Inv. No. 337-TA-664. Samsung notes that the investigation was stayed on March 12, 2009, but that the ALJ issued a new procedural schedule on June 30, 2009. See our March 13 and July 1 posts for more information.
Samsung also discloses in the complaint that on November 17, 2008, Spansion filed a patent infringement suit against Samsung in the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware, alleging infringement of six Spansion patents. Samsung states that it filed counterclaims against Spansion in the district court, alleging infringement of the two patents listed in the present section 337 complaint (and three others). The litigation was stayed on March 31, 2009, but the court recently scheduled a status conference for August 11, 2009.
Samsung didn't start the legal action against Kodak either.
Thirteen different Kodak models are accused of infringement and Samsung alleges that all of these models are made outside the U.S. Samsung based, in part, its importation allegations on a November 17, 2008 ITC Complaint filed by Kodak that stated that it does not presently manufacture its digital cameras in the U.S. As a result of the Kodak complaint, which named Samsung as a proposed respondent, in addition to LG, the ITC instituted an investigation (337-TA-663 â" Certain Mobile Telephones and Wireless Communication Devices Featuring Digital Cameras, Components Thereof ), which is currently pending at the ITC.
Samsung tried to reach an agreement with Matsushita before filing a lawsuit.
Samsung has accused Matsushita's Panasonic subsidiary of violating nine plasma display panel patents it holds, and today filed lawsuits with the US District Court in Los Angeles and Pennsylvania, South Korean news sources report.
Samsung's PDP division, Samsung SDI, said it had held talks with Matsushita on nine separate occasions during the past 12 months, but was unable to negotiate a deal amenable to both parties.
Samsung was willing to settle with Fujitsu out of court through cross licensing.
Both firms have a history of display-related litigation. In 2003, Samsung sued Fujitsu, accusing it of infringing its PDP patents. In April 2004, Fujitsu counter-sued, though the two companies eventually settled out of court by signing a cross-licensing agreement.
Apple has been far more of a pompous dick than Samsung ever was. They aren't even willing to reach any kind of settlement, unlike Samsung.
"rectangle with rounded corner" was made up by Samsung and the press never bothered to read the patents in the case. Pure spin and hyperbole on Samsungs part and due to lazy journalism it stuck.
Before the first car, no one had ever made a car with 4 wheels!
After the first car though, 4 wheeled cars everywhere!!!
Besides, that is just BS to start with. Every phone I have ever owned has had rounded corners (I'm talking cells before smartphones came on the scene). And I'm on my 3rd smart phone, none of which have been iPhones, and only one of which could even remotely be considered to have corners rounded even similarly to an iPhone. Even that one could not be confused with an iPhone.
But that's all beside the point anyways. It's a freaking Phone. It has a screen and maybe some buttons. They all look very similar. Just like every tv I've ever had has looked similar to the rest. And every laptop. And every car. And every ....
If it's not at least a technically novel patent, it's a fucking retarded patent. Period. Fuck ALL of the patent trolls, may they sue each other into oblivion!
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