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Are Commercial Games Finally Going To Make It To Linux?

Posted by Soulskill on from the yes-no-maybe dept.

colinneagle writes "Those of us who actively promote Linux as a viable desktop alternative to Windows are often greeted with the following refrain: 'Nobody will use Linux because there are no good games.' The prevailing wisdom is that the abundance of high-quality, commercial video gaming is a key factor in the market-share dominance that Microsoft Windows enjoys. And, in all reality, this is somewhat true. So, then, the obvious course of action is to convince the video game publishers and developers of the world that Linux is a viable (if, perhaps, a bit niche) market. And by 'viable' I mean one thing and one thing only – 'profitable.'Luckily, there have been three high-profile recent examples of Linux users going absolutely nuts over video games, forking over their hard-earned cash in the process: the Humble Indie Bundle (drawing in huge numbers of sales — for a DRM-free product, no less — with sales numbers by Linux users consistently beating out sales to MacOS X users); Canonical's Ubuntu Software Center (where video games make up the top 10 paid software packages); Valve's announcement that it is bringing the Steam store, and community portal, to Linux desktop (specifically Ubuntu). Will the indie game developers (along with Valve) reap the bulk of the rewards that releasing games on Linux is offering...or will some of the big publishers realize what they're missing out on and join in the fun?"

47 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Sure! by pietromenna · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But only when they see that it makes sense and it will not require too much technical work to allow some! Ahhrg by the way! First post!

    1. Re:Sure! by DragonTHC · · Score: 2

      I point you to my post from 2007

      We'll see if it rings true.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    2. Re:Sure! by DragonTHC · · Score: 3, Interesting

      here's the text for lazy people.

      Here is my prediction for the next big thing in PC games.
      live DVDs. You’ll get your game on a live DVD that runs a custom operating system or perhaps Linux to make it easy. A huge portion of the overhead costs for games involves support. If publishers could control the environment their software runs in, end-user support costs drop dramatically. The real hurdle to overcome? Driver support. Though, when publishers cross the live DVD bridge, I’m sure hardware manufacturers will jump onboard and sure up some unified driver technology like Nvidia and ATI already have.
      This all makes it much easier to play games and easier still to troubleshoot them. What about copy protection you ask? CD keys still work for online play. Why not have a game run its own operating system from a usb thumb drive? this allows the publisher to add dongle-type hardware to the usb thumb drive if they so choose to add that level of copy protection.
      You heard it all here first.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    3. Re:Sure! by Microlith · · Score: 2

      That would be annoying as hell. On top of that, it'd force the development studios to support everything beneath the game as well as on top. Rather than diminishing the support costs, you've just exploded them.

    4. Re:Sure! by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 2

      That's actually a great idea. There's one big problem, though: hardware support. Your custom distro would only support hardware up until that point in time, which meant you'd have to look for legacy hardware two years from now. But what if you offered the hardware, too, in a bundle? That way you'd have control over both hardware and software - there's nothing easier to support of develop for. And, to reduce costs, you could share a platform like that across many games, so... oh, wait...

    5. Re:Sure! by thesandtiger · · Score: 2

      It's actually a really stupid idea. Why the fuck would I, as a consumer, want to have to reboot to play a game, screw around keeping track of all discs or USB drives or whatever, and lose the ability to do anything else with my computer when it's playing a game?

      On top of that, yes, as you say, hardware support would be problematic. Updates would be a pain in the ass. There would be absolutely no way of knowing if any two games would do something incredibly weird to your system because maybe neither one of them was developed with an eye towards checking if, I dunno, that space on the hard drive it is writing a patch to was occupied by anything.

      It's just a staggeringly stupid idea that doesn't solve any problems and serves no purpose. Literally encasing games in human feces would be a better idea because at least then it might serve the purpose of reducing shoplifting losses.

      That said, pitch it to Ubisoft, they have a history of trying out pants on head retarded ideas and may pay well for it.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  2. Valve thinks so. by Nyder · · Score: 5, Informative

    Seems like the case.

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/16/valve-makes-steam-for-linux-official/

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/13/steam-linux-client-release-looks-imminent-games-and-beta-spotted/

    http://tech2.in.com/news/pc/steam-greenlight-lists-games-for-linux/435732

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:Valve thinks so. by lowlymarine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is, the Source engine already exhibits a lot of really bizarre performance behavior. They say that on Linux with OpenGL they're seeing performnace improvements over Windows with DirectX (with no mention of IQ), but on Windows the OpenGL engine is slightly slower (~10%), and on OS X the OpenGL engine is about 65% of the speed of the DirectX implementation on Windows and has noticeably lower image quality. Source also has wildly different performance on otherwise comparable AMD and nVidia cards. I've even had systems that used to run TF2 just fine a year or so ago, and now are a stuttery mess with the same settings on the same maps with the same number of players, for no readily apparent reason. And of course we're dealing with framerates in the 300+ FPS range for the Source engine on high-end hardware these days, where huge differences can be the result of otherwise tiny factors, as actual GPU performance is marginalized next to things like driver overhead; that wouldn't be the case for, say, Unigine or UE4.

      I think if we're honest, Valve's big complaint about Windows 8 has nothing to do with "performance" or expected sales, it's more about "waah we were about to launch an application store but now thanks to Microsoft's we won't have a virtual monopoly on that for Windows."

    2. Re:Valve thinks so. by Sir_Sri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And they're porting to linux as a hedge against a massive failure of windows 8 and an abandoning of the Microsoft platform.

      For the vast vast vast vast majority of developers the added overhead of a mac version, let alone a linux version isn't worth the investment at this time. Activision is even cutting out windows XP support (and that still has `12% of the PC game marketshare: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey for august). If you look at overall operating system marketshare, windows has about 91% of the overall market, Mac around 7, Linux 1, and then you're into the margin of error on reporting. Linux just isn't a market worth investing in unless you can count on a few tens of thousands of copies or you're looking at it as an investment in a future platform.

      What this tells us is likely that valve is looking at doing a linux console (sort of like the PS3), but based around steam, as a potential future product, especially if windows 8 is as much of a disaster as it seems to be *and* windows marketshare starts to tank. I could also (or instead) see them using a steam cloud of linux servers streaming content, rather than selling you a box too, it is still easier to run a huge linux server farm than windows server farm (especially given the licensing issues with doing that with windows). That doesn't mean anyone else wants in on this plan particularly, but for Valve, who are trying to keep themselves relevant in a world of windows App stores and consoles that have their own clouds they need to be trying all sorts of stuff to keep people using Steam. They can make money on a half life 3, portal 3 etc, but keeping Steam afloat in a Windows 8/9 world presents some serious challenges.

      Like Mac, the linux numbers are going to under-report 'gamer' types, because people who play games switch to windows right now, even if they would rather game on Linux. But it's still a very very small market to try and serve, especially when games usually work under Wine so why do any work for 'native' linux when you don't have to? The Eve guys gave up because they couldn't match Wine performance after all, and while WoW runs on Linux they also have an infinite pile of money to throw at the problem, and something like steam, they want to be everywhere in case the PC business completely transforms overnight.

    3. Re:Valve thinks so. by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2

      No; they're doing it so they have an OS for their upcoming set-top box product.

      The fact that, due to the OS chosen being Linux, it just happens to run on PCs to? Just a side-effect. Whether they continue to support Linux-on-PCs after the set-top-box succeeds or fails is really the best indicator, but we won't know that for years.

      --
      Comment of the year
    4. Re:Valve thinks so. by Eirenarch · · Score: 2

      I am can't wait to see what happens. The Linux users I know won't give money for software unless it is some indie semi-open source "please donate your money" developer like the case with Humble Indie Bundle. I wanna see how big titles like Call of Duty do. I predict disaster.

    5. Re:Valve thinks so. by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, they're porting to Linux as a hedge against the success of Windows 8. Valve has an app store they get a huge fraction of their income from. Since Windows 8 will have its own Windows Marketplace app store, Microsoft is unlikely to be friendly to Valve's store. In fact, Independent Software Vendors with valuable markets in Windows that Microsoft decides to want tend to start having issues running in Windows at all. Microsoft has decided they want Gaben's Steam marketing revenues - and probably the games money too now, and Gaben knows that once they decide that the party is over in Windows - they cannot be dissuaded, negotiated with, or convinced. He knows this because he used to work there.

      So Valve needs a new platform for their game engines, games and game store to run on because Windows 8 is not going to work. Since Apple has the same app store issues and Linux doesn't, Linux it is.

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      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    6. Re:Valve thinks so. by Brillegeit · · Score: 2

      All machines I use run Linux, both at home and work. But I still have a dedicated $1000 machine with a $200 Windows license I start a few times a week and play the ~160 games I have in my Steam Library. I don't know of any Linux users over the age of twenty-something (e.g. has a job) that is hostile to non-free software if there is no free-software alternative, as is the case with games.

    7. Re:Valve thinks so. by Sir_Sri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Even future Windows Updates will break Valve's game engine for no good reason.

      That doesn't even make sense. Much as I have been trying to persuade them, microsoft is not interested in making or selling game engines. There's a big difference between the directx API and a game engine, and MS isn't in the latter business at all, despite the fairly compelling case for there to be some serious software companies selling game engines at tiered pricepoints with tiered support.

      I can now safely say that Valve isn't going to get the early access to Windows 9 they would need to stay competitive.

      Again, that doesn't make any sense. Anyone who pays for MSDN access can get early access to windows 9, and, somewhat surprisingly, directx 8 code still works on windows 8, so there's not real reason to believe that source engine games are suddenly going to stop working any more than anything else could suddenly stop working.

      Except for anti-malware/antivirus vendors. Those folk really have nowhere else to go

      They're usually security companies, not just AV companies. There's still a market for intrusion detection, forensics, recovery etc. There is even a place for malware protection on linux and mac if they ever pick up market share, and there's a place for AV on mobile devices these days too.

      You're talking a lot of nonsense unfortunately.

  3. Re:Won't happen anytime soon. by interval1066 · · Score: 2

    ... where most people thinks they are entitled to have everything free...

    Most people using linux think"s" assuming the cart is before the horse in lieu of a viable gaming title is a bit premature. Let's wait until the steam port is done, shall we?

    --
    Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
  4. Maybe by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It'll depend on two big things:

    1) The willingness of Linux users to pay for software. Big name games are not going to go OSS, they are not going to be free, they are not going to function off of donations. They cost too much money for that. When you sink $10-30 million in making a game, you have to have a way to make it back. Unfortunately I've met more than a few Linux users who think all software should be no cost, they are just unwilling to consider paying for something. Others will pay, but only a small amount. So we'll have to see how many people are willing to pay, if it is enough to cover the costs of porting and supporting.

    2) Linux getting a better graphics setup. Right now there's a real problem with regards to using modern features of GPUs. The binary nVidia drivers provide OpenGL 4.2 and are fast and stable, but that is about it. So if a game wants to use new technology, and more and more do, then there's a real issue with what you support. Ask Mozilla about the problems they had with GPU acceleration under Linux. It was a case of "It works well with binary nVidia, but has X crashing bugs with anything else." That isn't a setup that will be ok for many game companies, particularly if the expectation is that they scale things back or do tons of work and hacking to support various chips/drivers, since that'll increase the cost of doing it.

    It'll all come down to money, as it always will in business. The desktop Linux market is not that large so there isn't a huge amount of people to tap in to. Thus how with it it will be will depend on what percentage of people will pay, and what it costs to support. If a high percentage of people are willing to pay for the games, and ports are rather easy, then you probably will see it on the uptick.

    I mean if I'm running a publisher and the finance people say "For about $50,000 in development testing and support we can add Linux as a platform and even conservatively we can expect $500,000 in additional sales, and $1,000,000 is fairly realistic," well I'll do it. Why not? Even if I'm looking at $100,000,000 in sales on other platforms a small investment with a good reward is a great idea.

    However it is is more along the lines of "It'll cost us at least $500,000 to get everything working and there will still be bugs with AMD cards, and at best we could see maybe $600,000 in sales, but realistically probably half that or less," then I'll say no. It is not worth the risk of lost money for a small potential of a small reward. Just stick with the other platforms.

    So at this point, we really can't say. We'll have to see how Valve does, and in particular some of the Kickstarted games. The Linux people were very, very vocal so many games added a Linux port. However we'll have to see what it ends up taking to make, how well it works, and how Linux sales of it goes. That'll likely determine if those companies try Linux again, and other companies will see their success or failure and decide what to do.

    1. Re:Maybe by symbolset · · Score: 2

      The metric you are missing is that the Windows Marketplace destroys Valve's app store business model. Gaben used to work for Microsoft and he knows what that means. He has no choice but to do the hard work of building a new viable business. Otherwise it's game over. Since it's not about best return on investment anymore, but survival, your argument is invalid.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    2. Re:Maybe by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Gabe Newell used to work at Microsoft. He knows about Stac and Sendo, WordPerfect, Novell, Lotus, Aldus, Borland, Netscape and the entire litany of other companies Microsoft decided had had enough time to develop an interesting basket of customers to steal. He knows Microsoft has now decided to have his share, and he cannot defeat them while working on their operating system. That strategy always fails because Microsoft deliberately makes the operating system incompatible with their victims' software. Always. He knows he cannot win on Windows in the long term.

      That doesn't mean he's abandoning Windows immediately. Of course not. The money's still coming in and there's no reason to throw it away. But right here in this thread are the first trickle of "increasingly glitchy, unreliable, unstable..." that eventually will become a flood not because Valve suddenly forgot how to write code, but because the ware cannot transcend an OS that deliberately undermines it. It is just not possible . It's not Gabe that's going to take Valve on Windows away from you: it's Microsoft, who will make it work worse and worse until you uninstall it.

      So the man has no choice. It's this or fold your tent and retire to your private island.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:Maybe by John+Bokma · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately I've met more than a few Linux users who think all software should be no cost,

      Riiiiight.... and all Windows users just love to pirate, arrrrh, matey!

      Last times I checked the average amount paid by Linux users was higher than Windows for the Humble Bundle

      --

      Perl Programmer for hire
    4. Re:Maybe by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      I think Kickstarter can maybe help with the profitability issue.

      I would think that for most developers, there's some number of dollars, no matter how large, that would make them willing do to a Linux port. The key is getting developers to go for this.

      For example, I would have figured that the Torchlight 2 developers would be up for attempting a Linux port funded by Kickstarter, since they're also supporting Mac. But they're pretty plainly saying they're not interested in pursuing a Linux port. Not sure why.

    5. Re:Maybe by symbolset · · Score: 2

      "More like Microsoft has a chance of created a walled garden that beats Valve's walled garden."

      No, Microsoft owns the OS and can make it as incompatible with Valve's software as they made it incompatible with the software from dozens of others including Borland, Lotus, WordPerfect and others. Gabe Newell knows this because he was actually there and participated in this activity as a Microsoft employee. He knew this was coming and prepared for it many years ago.

      If Microsoft wants to build game cred after they drive their 90% gaming revenue share partner Valve off, they're going to have to bring their A game.

      Losing Valve and Steam though, that is done and over with. Microsoft breached faith and designated Valve's revenues a target. Gabe knows better than to slowly roast on that fire. He's a smart cookie.

      Microsoft is welcome to whatever fraction of the 10% of gaming revenues that don't follow Gaben do. Rather than feast on the Valve pig they can knaw again over the bones of those left behind.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    6. Re:Maybe by Sri+Ramkrishna · · Score: 2

      Dont worry, y'all can still hang out wtih the Debian folks and it'll all be cool.

  5. Not likely, I'm afraid by Baldrake · · Score: 2

    Some game developers might support Linux if it comes essentially for free - e.g., because they're developing using Unity, or the game just runs under Wine. But even then, with current adoption numbers of Linux for desktop, the cost of testing, packaging, retailing and supporting is going to be more than revenues for most publishers. Sure, Indie developers are loving Linux, but their costs and expectation of profit are far lower than the big studios.

    It's worth looking at what's going on with the Mac. Around a quarter of university students are using Macs these days, yet the Steam store for mac is a pathetic shadow of the store for Windows.

    I wouldn't throw away your Windows partition just yet.

  6. Nothing new by Tastecicles · · Score: 2

    These guys have been running since 2000. They not only sell commercial games ported to Linux, they do some of the porting themselves.
    Oh, and here is their wiki page.
    Disclaimer: I know the founder.

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    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  7. Linux has no advantage over windows.... by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... when it comes to games. If linux made a performance distro FOR games that was significantly faster then windows in terms of framerates/etc only then would people think of changing.

    1. Re:Linux has no advantage over windows.... by FunPika · · Score: 4, Informative

      Valve has been getting faster FPS (but not by a huge amount) in Linux than in Windows.

      Windows (DirectX): 270.6 FPS
      Windows (OpenGL): 303.4 FPS
      Linux: 315 FPS

      --
      After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
    2. Re:Linux has no advantage over windows.... by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      unfortunately even that is not an apples to apples comparison. they used a 32 bit Linux build vs a 64 bit windows build. perhaps the differences there end up being small, but still you have to wonder about any comparison where they don't try to equalize the variables as much as possible, especially when it is known that that difference can be a factor.

  8. I probably represent a sizable chunk of people, by goldcd · · Score: 2

    so here I go with my thoughts.
    I'd like to switch to Linux - not for any great philosophical/political reason, just I'd quite like to learn about it - and that would require installing and using it.
    I'd installed Live discs, and dual-booted over the years, but never really made any progress after the first couple of days of working out how to do something and then giving up in frustration (MythTV, you're to blame for my last aborted attempt).
    For me gaming is definitely one thing I want to do, and I know I'll have major issues with in Linux - but that's not the main reason. Well it's part of the main reason, which I will badly sum up as "There's nothing I need from Linux I can't do in Windows - and whilst there's plenty of tasks I'm sure I can get Linux to do, knowing I'll never get something I want working just makes it all feel a bit pointless"
    Still not to say I'm giving up, just saying that my Windows install on my main desktop isn't going anywhere for quite some time. Current plan is to replace my aged ReadyNAS with a proper home server - and for that, Linux looks perfect.

  9. Re:Conventional wisdom is wrong about why Windows by moj0joj0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I began using Microsoft operating systems in the late 1980's. I used them every single day that I used a computer until about a year ago when I decided to give Ubuntu a try.

    I now use Ubuntu every single day I use a computer, I do reboot occasionally to use Windows for games, aside from that I do not use Windows at all.

    The only shortcomings I have come across is my dependence upon Photoshop (yes, I now run PS in wine) and that of my games. Aside from that, every other thing for which my computer is used, Ubuntu just works, and does works with more stability that Windows has ever shown in more than 2 decades of use.

    So when you say "runs circles around those same offerings on Linux" I will have to disagree, in fact, that statement is only partially true under some circumstances for specific applications, the exception rather than the rule. As a Linux n00b, I have more stability, better response, less overhead and an all around better experience than Windows.

  10. Re:Oh, really by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2

    Frozen Bubble is just a port of bust-a-move. You can buy it on every platform under the sun. Hell, I've seen at least 3 DIFFERENT ports of it on iPad alone. (None of which give credit to the original, of course.)

    If Frozen Bubble is your best selling point, you got problems.

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    Comment of the year
  11. Re:More problems than that by pnot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A big problem is just the concept of source distribution and the command line.

    "Source distribution"? "Command line"? Where are you posting from, 1995?

    as long as a legit response to a problem is "Oh just recompile your kernel," then it is forever destined not to be the everyman's OS

    Good thing that stopped being the case about ten years ago, then...

  12. Re:Wrong question by Tastecicles · · Score: 4, Informative

    HP is very well covered on Linux. As is Oki and Brother.
    Disclaimer: I use all three, on SuSE 9.2 Pro.
    Or are you talking about toy printers (Lexmark, Canon) with ink that costs more than premium champagne?

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  13. Re:More problems than that by rbprbp · · Score: 2

    as long as a legit response to a problem is "Oh just recompile your kernel," then it is forever destined not to be the everyman's OS.

    Kernel recompiles are not needed by 99% of users those days. In fact, the average user will probably never need to compile anything.

    --
    They're there in their room. You're on your own.
  14. Ya but you can't do that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    The thing is that OS overhead on Windows isn't all that high. It offers pretty efficient access to the GPU, particularly if you use DX10 or newer (which games are starting to do more and more). So there isn't huge gains to be made in Linux. Even if you designed the most optimized path possible, it just wouldn't offer 2x improvement. It might not even offer a 5% improvement.

    As it stands right now I don't know what if any improvements it would offer. Valve has a small improvement, however you have to remember that is with very old code on Windows, and a new port on Linux. If they went back and optimized their Windows renderer the difference might shrink, vanish, or even go the other way. We need more information to see generally if there is any performance improvement and from this data point if there is, it is probably quite small.

  15. I highly doubt it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I see a few big problems:

    1) Hardware/drivers which you touch on, but is bigger than you think. I am going to be all kinds of pissed off when I buy a new graphics card and instead of just working with all my games, but faster, as it does now, it works with nothing because none of them have drivers. I then have to wait for each and every game to update, which many, particularly old ones, won't do. This is a really major issue, PC gamers are not going to accept the concept of having to stick with the same hardware forever to play games, and having to give up games when they do change.

    2) Multi-tasking. Part of the reason to own a PC is to be able to do more than one thing at once. This includes in games. With my PC I can chat on Teamspeak, listen to MP3s, and play a game all at the same time. With a live DVD I couldn't do that, unless all the programs I happened to want were included.

    3) Game size. Many games are pushing past one DVD in size now. If you are doing a live system, there are interesting challenges to trying to have swappable DVDs.

    4) Access time. A big advantage of PC gaming is having low load times. Things stream fast of a HDD, and lightning fast of an SSD. DVDs crawl by comparison. People are not going to want that.

    5) Launch time. Right now, if I want to play a game on my system, I just run it. I can be in game in seconds. No big commitment, I don't even have to close whatever I was doing, just come back to it after. With a live DVD I have to shut down everything, reboot my system, and a slow reboot at that since it is off DVD, just to play the game.

    6) Now the biggie: The rise of digital distribution. Gamers and game companies are all about the concept of direct downloads. That really doesn't work with live DVDs. Nobody is interested in downloading an ISO, burning it to DVD, and rebooting their system. They are interested in downloading and playing. Heck companies are working (with some success in the MMO market at least) on letting you stream in assets so you can play before the download completes. It is all about less cost for the companies, more convenience for the consumer.

    The window for this idea is long past.

  16. Paying for Linux versions is insufficient ... by perpenso · · Score: 2

    ... The willingness of Linux users to pay for software ...

    Being willing to pay for a Linux version of a game is insufficient. With most Linux gamers already buying the Windows version and dual booting or running under Wine these gamers are already customers. Its only new customers who justify the Linux version, not someone switching from the Windows version to a Linux version.

  17. Re:Wrong question by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

    I use a Samsung laser printer and managed to get it working.

  18. Re:Well that's wonderful by pnot · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'll make sure to let our Linux support lead know. He's been bashing his head against a wall trying to get SimpleScalar to compile on our systems for a class to use.

    Right. Let's just recall what you were asserting here: that the "everyman" won't use Linux because he finds the command line "scary". Now your "everyman" (who, it suddenly turns out, is also your Linux support lead) wishes to install SimpleScalar, a "system software infrastructure used to build modeling applications for program performance analysis, detailed microarchitectural modeling, and hardware-software co-verification". Despite his evident technical acumen, Everyman is terrified by the notion that he must run a compiler to perform detailed microarchitectural modelling.

    "Sod this" says Everyman. "I'm going back to Windows!".

    Then he discovers that, on Windows, you also have to build SimpleScalar from source. Poor old Everyman! He should never have applied for that job as Linux Support Lead.

  19. Re:Wrong question by vlueboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I looked around for Linux printers, but realized nothing out there fit the small space that my currently uncooperative Lexmark takes up. I was facing the same rarity issue as those seeking 14 inch 4:3 LCDs. Single function color inkjets are going extinct, and my space fits were a dubious Canon Mobile an HP 100 Mobile I had vaguely seen online at some point. one. Paid $300 for the HP and my old jam-loving Linux-hating clunker will get canned when it runs out of ink.

    I still do not understand why HP keeps Linux support hidden from us savvy shoppers, despite supporting MacOS X and including a whole addendum sheet about some post-print MacOS 10.7 gotcha inside the box. I was forced to use my smartphone to google the Linux support bit at the store before approving my purchase --salesperson had no clue because their stickers and even site has no clue, of course. Confirmation came straight out of the HP site in a google search, even. What gives? That's just like the nice surprise of IPv6 support in my 2009 high-end home router... maybe they don't want to cut into their own business-tier profits? But HP OfficeJets are supposedly already in the business tier.

    Gnome 3 and Unity had turned me off, so I froze Ubuntu at 2010 versions until the laptop died this year. I thought I'd just keep linux in VM's forever in the new one, so my newfound Linux support allows me to give Linux another chance as a main OS in a dual-boot setup.
    Pro-tip: Skip HP's urge to install their printer utilities by skipping autorun and manually using the Windows Add Printer wizard. I think the utils make sense only if you want new-fangled e-mail printing, or if you need control of scanner and fax features after buying some 20"x10" desk hog whose special features are best left for your office. My Oracle VM had no trouble letting Mint find and use the printer with no fuss.

  20. The fact that Linux users have to use that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    Proves the problem. Linux users sprain their elbows they reach over and pat themselves on the back so hard because they spent $10 on average as opposed to the $6 Windows users spent... Except that $10 works out to like $2/game. People are cheapskates on the Humble bundle. Few pay what is actually a reasonable amount and many Window gamers have already paid more.

    I've never bought a humble bundle because I have already owned any games from them I've wanted. Usually the price per game I pay is $10-20. World of Goo is one I remember form the first bundle. I bought it not too long after it came out for $20, and I consider that a good price for it for the amount and quality of entertainment.

    So you wont amaze me, or developers, with tales of "generosity" of being only slightly less of a cheapskate than others who buy those.

    In terms of AAA titles, they need to sell a good number of games for a good amount of money if they are to make back their investment. When you sink $20 million in to development and marketing of a game, you are going to need around $40 million in sales just to break even. If people will spend $40-60 per copy that isn't bad, a million sales or less. If people spend $2 per copy you need to move 20 million units, which only some of the very top games of all time have ever done.

  21. Re:No my argument is not invalid by symbolset · · Score: 2

    You said it yourself: Steam has 90% of the PC games revenue, and the same issue affects the other 10% too. The fraction of game sale revenue your comment applies to is therefore at best a fringe 5%. Little enough to be not relevant to the broad scope of the discussion. You're picking at nits.

    Microsoft has decided that Valve has fattened itself enough to be harvested. That's how Microsoft sees the ISV market: grazing cattle, some who fail, some who wander about doing nothing but making more cattle, and a few that fatten themselves for harvest. Once Microsoft has picked a pig out of their Windows pen to roast and feast upon it's all over for Wilbur. Valve got too fat, became too tempting, so now it's their turn to be over for dinner. They are invited to the banquet. I know it. You know it. Gaben knows it. Gaben used to be there turning the pig on the spit, drizzling on the marinade, throwing an occasional log on the fire. Once that decision is made there is no going back. You can't unslaughter a pig.

    Valve will now find their open chat channels to real developers slowly migrating to channels they don't have access to, their questions answered more and more cryptically. Emails will take longer and longer to come back, and the answers will become gradually more evasive. Their phone calls will more and more often go to voicemail, never to be returned. Their DirectX documentation will become more puzzling and obscure with each new version, and the patches will seem to be engineered to break the Valve game engine without any other benefit. Gaben's personal contacts will go off on sabbatical, never to return. Phone support will become worse and worse until it's finally answered by some prole in Bangalore who couldn't answer the question if he wanted to. The second Tuesday of every month will bring a new surprise for every Steam gamer, and Valve will have to start reverse-engineering the patches to correct for this as much as malware authors do. Of course they will, because Microsoft has decided that Steam and Valve are Malware because they prevent Microsoft from taking Valve's customers away. So the situation will eventually evolve that you can only play your Steam games a few days a month, or you have to turn off Microsoft updates and so have to suffer the malware that seems oddly crafted to exploit the lack. Ultimately though Valve cannot hope to overcome an OS that just doesn't want them. Naturally there will be considerable effort spent online convincing people that Steam and Valve games are buggy, glitchy, and not fun - and increasingly they will be so, so the funded commentary is just the seed of a grass-roots theme.

    Again, Gabe Newell knows all of these things. It's "Microsoft hardball" and he's played this game before for both teams. He has known for many years that if he was successful enough eventually the day would come when he rang Redmond's dinner bell. He's ready.

    Meanwhile OpenGL development group is probably like "Hey, Valve! How can we help you openly improve OpenGL to suit your needs? Come play with us!"

    It doesn't matter if Valve can make their Linux play work. They know they have no hope of making their Windows play work now that Microsoft has decided to kill and eat them. Apple gives limited support, as they share some of these issues. They will try Linux because they must, and their Linux pitch will be "you don't have to buy it again! It works in Linux. Come play! Here, we have a pen drive you can boot to that doesn't have this buggy Windows crap." Windows in the future is as closed to Valve as if it did not exist at all. Valve can move over to Linux or they can give up all hope, fire all their developers, extract every possible dollar out of their existing customer base and close shop. That's the only other option available now. It will be years yet before the ultimate evolution, but the outcome is already clear: PC gamers will move to Linux or consoles, or Windows games that don't involve Steam and Valve.

    I think Gabe Newell is smarter than that. He knew this was coming, and he has a plan.

    If you like Steam games, it's time to try Linux. Or consoles.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  22. Re:Wrong question by donaldm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I still do not understand why HP keeps Linux support hidden from us savvy shoppers

    I could not agree more, it's almost if the company is embarrassed by this and I used to work for HP at one stage, however I never had any issues with printing from a Linux machine via CUPS and that includes low and high end printers, colour and black and white, so I always recommend HP printers although I would think that most brands would work as well.

    Normally when adding a new printer to CUPS under Linux I let the software download the correct drivers and from personal experience all the important printing features just work. I have found that HP printers have a very good web interface that allow you scan or fax (if supported by the printer) and since Linux has support for many web browsers the controlling and extracting info from or even too a printer is intuitive and simple to do.

    --
    There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  23. Re:Wrong question by GNious · · Score: 2

    Let us rephrase it:
    "Are the printer manufacturers ever going to release their 100+ megabyte install packages, which they have for Windows, on Linux?"

    Printers might work just fine in Linux with CUPS, but given how big some driver-packages are on Windows, clearly something is missing on the Linux side! :)

  24. Re:Android / OUYA by Kergan · · Score: 2

    I think TFS misses on two big points that are helping to bring gaming to Linux.

    One of which is Android. There are some pretty decent FPS games running on the SGS3 in 720p.

     

    Android game development is probably doing Linux game development a disservice.

    Basically, every variation of hardware and ROM is a debugging and support nightmare. Code that works on one device doesn't necessarily do so on the next. Fixing the bug on the next frequently introduces new bugs on the first. Heck, you can't even trust the same devices to work consistently, because they occasionally get subtle hardware changes.

    Typically, you eat the extra development costs and develop on Android to try it out. You test it on leading devices before releasing. Upon releasing, you're then faced with a first hard reality: it adds little to your bottom line when compare to iOS sales. Still... assuming they compare or beat your extra development costs, you could conclude it was a worthwhile effort.

    But oh how wrong you would be.

    Peeking into the revues, you then notice many scathing, 1-star revues that mention how your app is buggy or crashes. Since you care about your customers and your reputation, you proceed to try to fix the issues. But as noted already, fixing them frequently introduces new bugs in devices that worked fine until now. And before you know, your full time job is dealing with Android-related issues.

    That's the hidden cost related to developing Android games. The bug squash team's time would be much better spent developing new games. Your mileage may obviously vary, but some devs are quite open about it and their subsequent pulling out of Android for that reason.

    In some respects, I think this will do Android a service in the long term, in the sense that devs might give up on devices, reducing fragmentation. When devs start telling customers to get lost unless they own a recent Nexus (other device makers be damned), things might work. Until they do, Android is a hard, cold reminder of everything that can potentially go wrong when driver support is poor or nonexistent.

    The other one is the OUYA project, which is also built on Android. They've already raised over $8.5 million and they havent even shipped a console yet.

    Oh wow! 8.5 million! Will the big publishers follow suit? I think not. That's pocket money compared to the billions being made on Windows and iOS.

  25. Re:Wrong question by loufoque · · Score: 2

    Any savvy person knows to get a networked printer, which also happens to make most driver issues irrelevant, as it will use a relatively standard networking printing protocol.

  26. Re:Conventional wisdom is wrong about why Windows by Gnulix · · Score: 4, Informative

    I actually hear this allot however I would normally reply "Use the GIMP" which IMHO is just as good as Photoshop.

    No, GIMP is not as good as Photoshop. It is however quite competent for the things that most people need to do with an image editing program. For everyday users I would recommend GIMP, but for professional artists and photographers Photoshop is a better choice.

  27. Wine by hobarrera · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why do people keep forgetting wine? Every day, more and more games work out of the box. Several high end big commercial games just worked perfectly out of the box the day they were release in recent months with no issues at all (ie: Mass Effect 3).

    I think what's still missing is promoting wine if you want people to game on linux.

    However, I should point something out; if you care about FLOSS, you then you wouldn't promote stuff like Steam (DRM-infested), which goes completely against FLOSS.