Slashdot Mirror
Major Backlash Looms For Apple's New Maps App
Hugh Pickens writes "Michael DeGusta writes that Apple's new Maps app is the very first item on their list of major new features in iOS 6, but for many iPhone and iPad users around the world Apple's new maps are going to be a major disappointment as the Transit function will be lost in 51 countries, the Traffic function will be lost in 24 countries, and the Street View function will be lost in 41 countries. 'In total, 63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people will be without one or more of these features they previously had in iOS,' writes DeGusta. 'Apple is risking upsetting 65% of the world's population, seemingly without much greater purpose than speeding the removal of their rival Google from iOS. Few consumers care about such battles though, nor should they have to.' The biggest losers will be Brazil, India, Taiwan, and Thailand (population: 1.5 billion) which overnight will go from being countries with every maps feature (transit, traffic, and street view) to countries with none of those features, nor any of the new features, flyover and turn-by-turn directions. Apple's maps are clearly behind in some key areas, but they will presumably continue to improve over time. Google has committed to making their maps available everywhere, so it seems likely Google will release their own iOS maps app soon, as they did with YouTube, which has similarly been removed from iOS 6."
But what percentage of people who actually buy iPhones lost these features?
Most of their customers will grumble about it, and guess what? They'll still buy the next iPhone. Apple's marketing really helps them here.
Hubris will lead to Apple's ultimate downfall.
Umm, doesn't this only affect those who voluntarily upgrade to iOS6 or the iPhone5? It surely is annoying, but at least they're not pulling a sony (e.g. upgrade-to-iOS6-or-you-can't-use-apps kind of update).
Shut the fuck up. Im in Mexico and I sure as hell know it will be piss poor fucked up here. Google works very, very well but it took them a year to do it right. Apple wont do it right. I just know it wont: where are their vans taking pics and surveying my city? I would know if they were doing it. They are nowhere in sight. This really fucking sucks.
NO SIG
I applaud Apple for once again holding the line on features that are simply not ready for prime time. Better to have nothing at all than something that is not invented by Apple.
Just download and add Google Maps back. Surely people (even Apple users) can figure out how to do that.
5% of India is still what, 50 million people? That's a fair bit of money.
This time you'd better live down to the expectations of technology pundits.
They're getting really tired of you succeeding despite their most dire prognostications.
Sincerely,
An obviously brainwashed Apple zealot
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
What kind of tech journalism has emerged lately? It seems like every other story on Slashdot I'm yelling at the journalism and I'm not even a journalist.
a) iPhone's never had turn-by-turn direction built-in, this is a new feature which the Google Maps app never had.
b) iPhone's used to have Google Maps app built-in, this will simply be released by Google for free. A 1 minute workaround which most if not all iPhone users are already familiar with. Apple used to have a contract to build-in Google apps, they don't anymore for whatever reason so they rolled a better solution themselves.
c) Apple is not preventing Google or anyone else to continue using the Google Maps features. It still works in the Safari browser including current location through HTML5.
This is yet another guy trolling for page views about things that everyone already knew months ago and nobody complained because it's not a big deal. I don't know why /. is enabling such people.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
... than being dependent on their biggest competitor.
If they had waited until they had *all* the features in *all* countries to roll it out it could mean several more years of Google Maps, which had a severely limited API on the iPhone. The new maps app may be limited, but it's also far more extensible. IIRC they added the ability for an app to register as a data-source for transit or bike paths or walking directions. That's something you couldn't do with the old API. This allows cities and/or transit companies to make their own apps that can account for train/bus schedule a lot more reliably. Maps have turned out to be a critical feature of Mobile OS's. Why wouldn't Apple want to have more direct control over what the Maps in their OS can and can't do?
Only a sap would grapple with apple's map app. It's a trap.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
You presumably don't have to upgrade to iOS 6 immediately. Or are they removing Google apps across all versions of iOS?
If they are going to remove it altogether then do the obvious thing and either crack your iDevice, or buy an Android tablet instead of putting up with that shit.
which is totally what she said
On the plus side, between the new iPhone connector and the loss of features like Google Maps, Android's just looking like a nicer alternative. :-)
Check out Unsealed: Whispers of Wisdom! http://unsealed.k3rnel.net It's an action-RPG about Open Sourcerers.
Maybe I'm a bit simplistic on this but what is stopping iOS users from downloading the app they want. My impression is that you'll be able to get Google Maps as a separate app if you want it. Apple has changed the backend data for their application. For some it's better; for some it's worse. As for YouTube, Apple doesn't want to maintain a YouTube app and so it will no longer be available by default. What's stopping others from making such an app? People complain about the walled-garden but then the complain when given more choice.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Why is Apple always the villain around here? Remember that one time when Google implemented turn-by-turn directions for iOS maps app? Yeah, me neither. Besides, I trust Apple more. With them, I'm the customer. With Goolge I'm the product...with my personal information being sold to advertisers. Google already reads my email, knows my web searches, sees my RSS feeds and more. I want them also knowing where I go?
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
"Apple is risking upsetting 65% of the world's population"
Are you fucking kidding me?
I am taking Friday off and plan to disconnect myself from the world for the weekend. Maybe this whole iPhone silliness will have blown over by Monday.
Was Google banned from Appstore? If not, their mapping app will be (if not already) available as a free download for all.
Google stands to lose more in the long run than Apple from this. While I appreciated being able to use public transportation schedules in Bangkok and Hong Kong on my iPhone, that's a small convenience. At the same time having my location, movements and destinations sent to Google in exchange for this convenience is not particularly desirable. I went along with this for the lack of reasonable choice.
Now that a different mapping solution is available, my location will "only" be sent to Apple and their partners. As long as they don't sell this information to Google (that's what competition is good for) this is one less element of comprehensive profile on me that Google can build.
As far as features go, I am sure in time Apple's own maps will get public transportation info for other countries.
BTW, Google public transportation info was off quite a bit (both in US and elsewhere) making it sometimes less than useful. Hope Apple does better. As far as traffic goes, in my experience Google is wrong more often than not (other than generally painting everything yellow-red during rush hour, which is self-evident). They apparently use returned data from mapping apps on mobile devices to gauge traffic conditions (here, another reason they need app on iPhone) I stopped using their traffic information a while ago.
Disclaimer: I don't *like* any large enterprise or product. I use iPhone because it best fits my requirements for mobile device. I am also a Windows and Mac user, and develop software for Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD and a few other platforms. :) In case any of the "anti apple" crowd pull out their usual fanboy slogans.
One thing overlooked in the discussion of iOS6 maps, is that they have a fantastic feature not found on other platforms - the ability to locate applications that help you find routes by region, within the map itself.
What that means is that an application devoted to helping you find your way around a specific city, can register a geofence around that city that applies to that app. When the user is in that city looking up things on the map and wants to find their way to something, they can all up alternate routes and what appears is basically an app store just for that region produced by finding all the apps that have that location inside the geofence they proclaimed.
This will make it really helpful to find guides and other applications specifically tailored to a place without having to hunt across the whole apps store - and it helps the apps get discovered that might not have been otherwise.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
63 countries with a combined population of 4.5 billion people
Yeah, I'm sure some Bolivian dirt farmer is going to miss the traffic report on his new iPad.
Apple knows damned well who their customer base is. And I bet it isn't in those 63 countries. Those are countries where people are buying $45 android tablets. You think Apple gives a shit about spending extra to keep up with subways and traffic there? Give me a break.
Not that there is any point in feeding this troll, but sure I will bite. International markets are eating up Apple devices, to the tune of 3 out of 4 of them going overseas instead of being sold in the US (in the first quarter of 2012). Sure, the market overall is a smaller slice of each of those countries, given their relatively lower per capita income, but it is a very strong demand that has no sign of slowing down.
They can do whatever they want with their Maps application, as long as they don't block Google from releasing their own. It's one thing to block other people's applications (such as browsers) because they provide insignificant functionality compared to what you already have. But this is a whole different matter. It's unacceptable to eliminate important functionality that you advertised and that people rely on. It's even worse if you do it because you have some childish pissing match with another company. Sony pulled this shit and paid a serious price for it (although IMO they haven't paid enough). I would hope that Apple learns from Sony's mistake.
Did you even read the article?
(Of course not... this is slashdot).
Countries where the iPhone wasn't available aren't counted among the nations affected (because they aren't. It wasn't available there before, so not having it now makes no difference).
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
We are the 65%!!!
Apple sues the earth for stealing their intellectual property of inventing 'geography'.
You're far from the first person to not realize that the Google native iOS map app had Street View. It did... and has had it for a very long time.
To access Street View in the Google maps app, place a pin, then touch the pin. Wait a moment for the info to download, then touch the orange portrait icon on the side of the popup, which will bring up a Street View of that location.
Although I will concede the point that the mechanism for accessing Street View may be a bit obscure, given the limited interface available on a pure touchscreen device like the iPhone, I'm unsure how else Google could have implemented this to make it more obvious.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I am currently an iPhone user, but never bought into the whole "Apple can do no wrong" aspect of things. It was a functional device that allowed me to do what I wanted with it.
But I'm not going to buy an iPhone 5 when my upgrade comes around in November. I was honestly considering a Lumia, but not if all I'm going to be given the option of (being on Verizon) some lower end model. If they do pick up the 920, then I may seriously consider giving it a purchase.
Otherwise, I'll end up with an S3. I'm not married to any particular type of phone (had the original Moto Droid, with no real complaints) but I do tend to dislike when companies do things that just don't seem to make sense from a consumer standpoint. I am aware they don't want Google anything on their phones anymore, for obvious reasons, but I don't like anything done at the cost of experience. Being petty and spiteful really does not serve others well.
BULLSHIT!
There is NOTHING forcing you to upgrade to iOS6 other than getting access to the new features in iOS6.
You can still connect to iTunes, iCloud, etc.
For fuck's sake, I know we fucking hate all things Apple, but can we stop spreading bullshit?
Your argument makes no sense.
You equate "rolling your own" proprietary application with F/OSS "movement". This is incongruous..
You equate Android support with support for F/OSS. This is not necessarily the case.
The OP stated that Apple's new connector and the loss of Google's applications as a reason to consider using Android, and you made it into a nonsensicle rant against F/OSS.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
On the plus side, between the new iPhone connector and the loss of features like Google Maps, Android's just looking like a nicer alternative. :-)
Ok, so let me get this straight:
Slashdot readers, and especially the multitudinous Fandroid faction, who, by and large, value supporting a computing platform based on its "philosophy", are now going to argue that Apple sticking with an on-again, off-again "Partner/Competitor", (Google), who can take their ball and go home at any time is actually preferable to them "rolling their own" Mapping solution?
If so, the F/OSS "movement" has just jumped the shark on their entire philosophy.
1: The preferred situation is for Apple to develop their own maps/etc. program and let it live alongside Google's (and Microsoft's - Bing's maps are great, but there's no live navigation / etc.) and let the users choose.
2: The open source "movement" has nothing to do with Android. Android is no longer open source. It hasn't been since 2.2.Something. The latest version is always closed and you have to pay Google to get in on it. The older versions are released as open source (AOSP). Good luck getting them to work with your closed hardware, closed radio, etc., and if you're an OEM good luck competing with the OEMs who paid up and are launching devices with one major version ahead of you every single time.
Amazing how Apple can risk upsetting 65% of the world's population when they've only sold products that could be effected by this change to *up to* 4.6% of said world population, with the likely number falling well below that due to repeat sales to the same individuals.
Let's do the math:
World Population: 7 Billion
Number of iOS Devices Sold: 400,000,000
iPhone 2G Units Sold: 6.1 Million
iPhone 3G Units Sold: 20.25 Million
iPod Touch 1st - 3rd Generations Units Sold: 32 Million
iPad 1St Generation Units Sold: 19.48 Million
Total iOS Units that will not get the "New Maps": 77.83 Million
Total Effected iOS Devices: 32,617,000
Does it suck that their offering is less mature than Google's, of course, however Google has also announced that they will be providing an updated version of their Maps app via Apple's App Store, so if you aren't happy with what the mighty Apple provides, than give it a couple weeks and let someone else fill the void.
It is just amazing to think that people really think that companies like Apple really have the power to impact the lives of 65% of the world population through changing a back-end web service on a small subset of their devices.
Thirty four characters live here.
Though I'm a bit pissed that Google replaced Yelp ratings with Zagat.
Well then you might want to consider getting an iOS6 device, which uses Yelp for ratings... :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Unless you, you know, hit settings, then tick the 'allow apps from unknown sources' option.
Or install things from amazons store.
Or the 3 dozen other app stores that you can run on android.
But aside from that, yeah. Walled garden. Totally the same.
Yes, Apple omitting a London Tube station from a map of London is kind of a killer fail. The images show the user about 100m from a Central Line tube station, but Apple is going to make him walk about a mile to another station.
Is turn-by-turn navigation that important in a handheld device? That's more of a feature for a car-mounted device. You shouldn't be looking at a smartphone while driving, anyway.
Save web page as link on the home screen so going forward there is only step one, launch google maps.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mod parent up, not down.
If I didn't know better, sometimes I'd believe that 3/4ths of slashdotters were astroturfers fighting the battles of their overlords.
Will Apple make their clientele suffer the death from a thousand cuts by cutting the quality and openness of their devices? That's for Apple to decide. Apple is by no means a democracy.
As for Google, you sacrifice most of your personal info to get the juicy maps. Is there a solution where locational privacy and great maps intersect? Not in the "free" model, but perhaps there is in the "open" model.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Ah, the tolerant and completely non-homophobic Slashdot Brain Trust chimes in once again. Yeah, getting *that* enraged over another person's choice of gadget is the shining picture of mental health.
http://source.android.com/
I'm sorry, you were saying something stupid?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They are doing exactly the same thing they did when Steve Jobs left the first time.
They have become scared, call minor change 'innovation' and loosing focus on the product.
I hope I ma wrong, but 5 is exactly what I said it would be, and I suspect after the 1 years anniversary of Jobs death, there will have been a noticeable lessening of momentum at Apple.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"It gets worse. Even in countries where turn-by-turn and/or Flyover are available, the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and the 4th generation iPod touch won’t support them. These devices are owned by tens of millions of users who may update over-the-air when prompted, only to find they’ve lost features and haven’t even gained any of the marquee Maps features in return."
What? Sixty-five percent of the world's population will be upset by the map application? Does 65% of the world's population have an iOS device or rely on one?
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
"Google will have Maps as a standalone app..."
Do you have a qualified reference for this, or are you making assumptions?
And what evidence do you have that Apple will not simply reject any possible future Google Maps app on the basis that it "duplicates internal functionality"?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/09/how-google-builds-its-maps-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of-everything/261913/
Google Play and Maps are not part of the OS. There's a difference between open-sourcing an OS and open-sourcing the OS and everything you ever wrote that runs on that OS.
Why would you want the Honeycomb source? Newer versions have had their source code released. Is there some reason you would want the older version that wasn't as good?
Try using iOS 5 in your shiny new iPhone 5 for sale since next Friday.
You are correct up to the point that app developers start ditching support for iOS 5. I'm not sure how long that will take, but I remember not being able to download new apps onto my iPhone 3G because I refused to load a new version of iOS which would have crippled the performance of the phone. After a while, I was unable to download new apps because most of those apps required the new OS. What's worse is that I could have sworn those apps once supported my version of iOS, but the App Store didn't appear to be serving those older versions anymore which meant that if I didn't download the app while it was available, I didn't get it at all. But I could be wrong about that last point.
I didn't use them where I live, but I did use them in cities I travelled to.
It's a loss but I think in the end having third party apps handle this will result in a better experience. Perhaps not for the first few months, but you'll get more apps that are built to provide more accurate data - and it gives transit providers a reason to create transit applications because they are found in the maps app itself.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Try using iOS 5 in your shiny new iPhone 5 for sale since next Friday.
What? I think I need to brush up on my Douglas Adams, that sentence is written in a tense I'm not familiar with.
Your comment appears to suggest that iPhone 4 users will be forced to upgrade to the iPhone 5, and that no other option exists. I know we're knee deep in fanbois here, but owners of previous iPhone versions have multiple options available to them:
Seriously, the upgrade isn't mandatory...
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
How many AirPlay-compatible TVs are there?
Anything with HDMI.
My android devices can stream to my TV. Using wifi.
So you ask how many TV's I can stream to, but then bring up a small subset of TV's that support your WiFi streaming. How is that any different really? I'll bet you paid more for your TV than I did for mine, and with the extra money saved you can buy an AppleTV to work with whatever modern TV you have. Why would you prefer a system which limits the TV's you can buy?
Oh, and that cable will work with any HDMI TV as well - you never said it had to be wireless...
Meh. I've tried Waze. Concept good. No uptake among locals. OTOH, google maps gives me pretty accurate traffic info.
You should try it again, there's more uptake than you think (it's cross platform across a lot of different platforms). Google doesn't show police either.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You realise that the page is out of date right? The entry for Google Maps says "pre-installed on iPhone" which is quite clearly no longer the case. In fact, Google Maps is not available as an app on iPhone, only as a limited web application.
And for what it's worth, Turn-by-Turn is actually explicitly forbidden by the Google Maps API Terms. See section 10.2 paragraph C:
(c) No Navigation, Autonomous Vehicle Control, or Enterprise Applications. You must not use the Service or Content with any products, systems, or applications for or in connection with any of the following:
(i) real time navigation or route guidance, including but not limited to turn-by-turn route guidance that is synchronized to the position of a user's sensor-enabled device.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".