US House STEM Visa Bill Fails

dcblogs writes "A Republican-led effort to issue up to 55,000 STEM visas a year to students who earn advanced degrees at U.S. universities was defeated in a House vote. It needed a two-thirds vote, or about 290 ayes, for approval. Its supporters came up short, 257 to 158. Both parties support green cards for science, technology, engineering and math advanced degree grads, but can't agree on legislation. U.S. Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY), who has introduced his own STEM bill, urged House leaders to seek new negotiations: 'A bipartisan compromise can easily be ready for the lame duck session. There is too broad a consensus in favor of this policy to settle for gridlock.'"

Comments

Wow!

[Alex Belits]

So dumb, they can't pass a law that allows smart people to stay in their country WHEN BOTH THEY AND THOSE PEOPLE STILL WANT TO STAY.

STEM Visas being held hostage

[Stirling Newberry]

The argument is over the green card lottery, Republicans want to end it, the Democrats do not. About 5.5% of all Green Cards are issued based on the lottery. Both Democrats and Republicans want to issue the 55,000 visas, which are targeted at lowering wages of college graduates. So this gridlock is, for the time being, good for most readers of this site.

Re:STEM Visas being held hostage

[kenj0418]

I agree than any additional 'supply' will lower the average wage. But I'd rather be competing against 55,000 green card holders, who can negotiate fairly with their employers for a competitive wage than completing against 55,000 H1B workers who are (mostly) tied to a single employer and have a significant disadvantage in any salary/etc. negotiation.

So does one of the parties want to eliminate/reduce the H1B visas and replace them with green cards? Because if so, then I support them on this.

Re:STEM Visas being held hostage

[Rockoon]

I think the Republican idea is that the Diversity Lottery is based on bad reasoning to begin with.

The Diversity Lottery gives priority to people from countries that have low rates of immigration to the U.S.

Forget about the "intent" of this lottery for a moment and instead consider what it actually does.. it gives priority to someone from France over someone from Mexico or China, and its simply because fewer people from France want to come and work here. Mexicans and Chinese are not allowed in the Diversity Lottery because more than 50,000 of each have immigrated in the past 5 years, a statistic that disallows them from even entering the lottery.

Here is the list of countries ineligible for DV2013 (according to Wikipedia):

Bangladesh, Brazil, Canada, China (mainland-born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and Vietnam.

This new law would re-target the Diversity Visa's to give priority to people with advanced degrees, instead of to people from the 'right' country. What do Democrats have against people from the above listed countries? That is, essentially, what they are arguing.. that something is wrong with those people.

Re:STEM Visas being held hostage

[flyingsquid]

I agree than any additional 'supply' will lower the average wage.

That's not necessarily the case. You're assuming that with more people, everyone has to get a smaller slice of the pie. But the size of the pie isn't fixed. People willing to uproot themselves and their families to go halfway around the world tend to be motivated and they tend to be risk-takers. That means they start businesses at a much higher rate than native-born Americans. A recent study found that immigrants are 13% of the population, but 18% of the small business owners. They employed $4.7 million people in 2007. Some of the companies founded by immigrants become big companies as well... Sergei Brin, who was born in the USSR, founded this thing called Google you may have heard of. Immigrants are innovators as well- think of Tesla, Einstein, von Braun. So when you recruit the best and brightest the world has to offer, the technologies and companies these people found will make the economy stronger, and that will increase the number and quality of jobs.

Re:STEM Visas being held hostage

[PopeRatzo]

the 55,000 visas, which are targeted at lowering wages of college graduates.

See, those college grads are the last segment of society wherein somebody who comes from a lower-class family can make it into solidly middle-class or better category.

The ultimate goal of our overlords is to end social mobility.]

A year before Ronald Reagan took office, the United States was #1 in the world in social mobility, meaning the possibility that a person born in one class could move up in his lifetime. Today, the United States is #31 among OECD nations.

Yes, our overlords want to lower the wages of college grads. When people from lower classes achieve social mobility, they gain political power. When that happens, it's like someone dropped a turd in the overlords' infinity swimming pool.

Ronald Reagan changed America. Yes he did. And now, if you actually work for a living, you are either fucked or about to be fucked. Because we've had 30+ years of uninterrupted Reagan economic policies.

Re:STEM Visas being held hostage

[oh_my_080980980]

Your argument is based on the ASSUMPTION that these people will start businesses. Most of these people will work for existing corporations, not start their own businesses. Thus they will be reducing the number of jobs not increasing them.

The other obvious problem; THEY'RE VISAS! Once the visa expires they have to leave the country.

Moron.

don't fall into the same trap as the UK

[Chrisq]

If you pass this bill don't fall into the same trap as the UK. Only allow degrees accredited by Universities with a proven academic record, and not any "overseas branches". Even reputable Universities can be tempted by overseas operations, and it is much harder to deal with after the event after the event.

Not really

[voss]

When smart people with the means to immigrate come to this country Its a benefit to us even to American smart people. The idea
that immigration depresses wages is based on flawed static economic models. Immigration to the US goes down when unemployment goes up.

I want you techies to view it this way. When immigrants from asia come to this country they have little asian girls, who grow up to be
asian hotties who like marrying nerds who produce the holy grail the eurasian hottie who likes nerds.

More visas now= generations of asian and eurasian hotties for your grandsons(or granddaughters...I support equal rights for lgbt folks)

Re:Not really

[Stirling Newberry]

Your statement is categorically incorrect. STEM visas are employment based, and specifically designed to be better versions of the H1-B Visa, that is, guest worker type employment.

Immigration doesn't have to depress wages, just as Free Trade doesn't have to, but that is what it is being designed to do. The Democratic bill is marginally better in that it at least as a review of the effects of STEM visas.

Possibly relevant

[ryzvonusef]

An analysis of whom the US lets in, versus other countries (Short article, has two infographics):

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/08/27/160110929/immigration-who-the-u-s-lets-in-and-why

Spoiler:
The short answer: The U.S. mostly lets in family members of people who are already in this country. Other developed countries focus much more on letting in workers.

Re:Possibly relevant

[fermion]

So we want to transfer who we let in from families to those who will maximize profits for business. I suppose this is a tough choice for conservatives. Are we here to be family focused, or are we here because corporations are people.

The reality is that in America we must protect the family, and we must realize that the business of America is bidness. This is why I thought the dream act made so much sense. We have kids who have gone through a US education system, and who are ready for college or trade school. In many schools they are receiving very good SEM prep educations, and they are very motivated to study. If they finish college and get a job, why not let them stay. Why does it make more sense to import adults?

Here is my theory on the current status. Talking to am executive at a major multinational, it seems the H!B was primarily used for multinationals to assign workers, often temporarily, to the US, and but winter and summer resorts to gain skilled employees, usually ski instructors and the like. It boomed with IT looking for skilled workers and realizing that H1B visa workers were cheaper and in effect became indentured servants for the length of the time it took them to get a green card. This is the same thing with teach for america. Two years of guaranteed work without complaint, then leaving before one is vested.

Missing from summary

[necro81]

Missing from the summary, which would help explain why the bill failed, was the fact that the 55,000 greencards for STEM would be taken from the pool that is used for granting greencards (by lottery) to people in other countries that just want to come to the U.S. In other words, in trying to retain these students, the Republicans wanted to sharply reduce the number of just-plain-ordinary immigrants coming from, say, Ghana, Poland, and Brazil. Competing legislation would have left the greencard lottery pool intact, and simply allocated a new block of 55,000 greencards specifically for advanced degree recipients.

Re:Gridlock is real

[flyingsquid]

If they cant agree on something as trivial as this, it appears that stopping this freight train before reaching fiscal cliff is a very real impossibility.

Perhaps. But before people go blaming Congress for all the problems with government, consider that congressmen, for the most part, are just doing whatever it takes to get re-elected. The Tea Partiers, for example, were elected on the promise that they wouldn't compromise, wouldn't work with the other side, and wouldn't let the Democrats and Obama ever accomplish anything. And they've lived up to those promises.

The American people are as much to blame as anyone. We constantly demonize the other side and our politics are increasingly polarized, we have special TV programs and web sites that reflect our own biased worldview back at us, and we elect people based on this worldview. Then we act surprised and disappointed when the people we elect can't ever get any legislation passed.

Re:Gridlock is real

[h4rr4r]

This is trivial?
Bringing cheap workers to replace the only jobs not yet outsourced is a trivial thing?

Re:Gridlock is real

[Baloroth]

Don't you hate it when politicians do what they said they would?

Well, that is the opposite of what we generally expect them to do.

Re:Fucking insane

[acoustix]

Video proof that we have companies finding ways to disqualify American workers in favor of cheap immigrant labor.

Did You See the Daily Show?

[mx b]

The Daily Show the other night had a funny little piece where they talked to republicans and democrats at the national conventions to ask them how to overcome gridlock. It results in an orgy of insults directed at the other party, from both sides, that amused me pretty well.

I know it is a comedy show and perhaps can't be taken too seriously, but having family spread out between both parties, I can say it was fairly accurate in my experience. Both sides want to say that the world would be a magical fairy land if only the other side wasn't made up of complete jackasses that are only out to fuck up the plans of the other party.

In sum: yes, Tea Party has been made fun of it. But how did the Tea Party start? There's a constant bashing of Obama as a socialist and democrats as wanting to propogate a lazy welfare state. O-bum-a, Commrade Obama, I've heard it all. Name calling is on both sides, and is the main problem with our gridlock. There are groups in each party that are so desperately out to smear the other side that we never get a real debate. Personally, I do not agree with much of what the republican platform says this time around, but there is an important difference between not agreeing and going out of my way to insult people of the other party. I am sure that the majority of common people in each party (many politicians excluded) absolutely mean well for the country, and believe their platform really will be best. No secret agenda to give money to lazy welfare queens, or give tax breaks to rich people. The majority of voters aren't thinking that; they are thinking, what plan seems best to get the country going again?

When the everyday people recognize this, that just because the other approximately half of the country doesn't vote the same as you DOES NOT mean they are unpatriotic jackasses out to ruin the country, then perhaps we can get somewhere. But this is going to have to be a team effort from both parties. And I am sad to say that the current older generations of the country seem to prefer the gridlock and blame, or at least are stuck in this idea that "that's the way it is". I hope this will change with the younger generations as they start taking over congressional seats.

Re:Top Countries using DV

[TheSync]

Does anyone what these people do after coming to the US? Are they instantly eligible for food stamps, social security benefits, medicare/medicaid, unemployment etc. ?

1) You generally need to work for one year before you can get unemployment benefits for being laid off.

2) You are eligible for premium-free Part Medicare A if you are age 65 or older and you or your spouse worked and paid Medicare taxes for at least 10 years.

3) The Affordable Care Act of 2010, signed by President Obama on March 23, 2010, creates a national Medicaid minimum eligibility level of 133% of the federal poverty level ($29,700 for a family of four in 2011) for nearly all Americans under age 65. This Medicaid eligibility expansion goes into effect on January 1, 2014. Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid regardless of their income, and legal immigrants who have resided in the U.S. for less than five years are also not eligible, though states have the option of extending Medicaid coverage to legal immigrant children and pregnant women who are in the 5-year waiting period.

4) For Social Security, most qualified aliens are ineligible for SSI until they become U.S. citizens. Moreover, a worker must have 10 years of Social Security-covered employment to be eligible for retirement benefits.

5) Non-citizens like tourists and students are generally not eligible for SNAP (food stamps). Non-citizens who must meet an additional condition need only meet ONE of the following conditions to be eligible for SNAP: 5 years of residence, 10 years of work, children under 18, blind or disabled, elderly born on or before 8-22-31 who lawfully resided in the U.S. on 8-22-96, or active duty in the military.