iPhone 5 Teardown Shows Boost To Repairability

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iPhone 5 Teardown Shows Boost To Repairability

Posted by Soulskill on Friday September 21, 2012 @04:15AM from the if-it's-broke,-fix-it dept.

iFixit has posted a detailed teardown of the new iPhone 5. While the casing still uses Apple's proprietary pentalobe fasteners, the good news is that Apple has made the screen much easier to remove. Once the fasteners have been removed, the screen will lift out easily through the use of a suction cup. The screens are by far the most common parts of iPhones to break, and this change turns a complicated 38-step procedure that takes about 45 minutes at minimum into a quick, 5-10 minute job. The teardown also shows the iPhone 5 battery to be very similar to the iPhone 4S's, suggesting that the improvements to battery life come from other hardware and software changes. We get a look at the new A6 processor running the phone, which is a custom design based on ARMv7. iFixit also looks at the Lightning connector assembly; unfortunately, it includes the loudspeaker, bottom microphone, Wi-Fi antenna, and headphone jack as well, so fixing any one of those parts individually will be difficult. Whatever you think of Apple's decision to move to Lightning instead of micro-USB, it seems their switch away from the 30-pin connecter was necessitated by size constraints.

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Well there goes all my productivity for today by mozumder · 2012-09-21 04:20 · Score: 5, Funny

was trying to concentrate here..
And since when did girls get on the internet?
1. Re:Well there goes all my productivity for today by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:30 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  And since when did girls get on the internet with their clothes on?
  I think this is what you meant.
2. Re:Well there goes all my productivity for today by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:40 · Score: 0
  
  I couldn't find the chip that does the magic and the revolutionary panorama rendering engine from the camera! Someone is hiding something!
3. Re:Well there goes all my productivity for today by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  Not until they make a 32,768 x 8,192 pxl screen. And besides, I heard it from a friend in the uppers that they do it all in software.
4. Re:Well there goes all my productivity for today by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:56 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  the revolutionary panorama rendering engine
  
  You mean that thing that my android phone already does and does well?
5. Re:Well there goes all my productivity for today by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 06:09 · Score: 0
  
  My Touch Pro 2, a Windows Mobile 6.1 phone did this. Quite well, too I might add.
6. Re:Well there goes all my productivity for today by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 10:10 · Score: -1
  
  Who cares about boring iphones. But, oh God, how I would strip down _her_
Summary fails to give final score (7/10) by Scowler · 2012-09-21 04:26 · Score: 4, Informative

umm, kinda obvious fact to omit from the summary, that whole ifixit repairability score...
1. Re:Summary fails to give final score (7/10) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:47 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Doesn't matter, the article says how everything is justified for the better with the iPhone 5. Justified.
  So now go buy it. Not considering the above mention of score, data comm speed are the same and multimedia roughly the same.
  Oh and playing music and sound quality? Hasn't changed much since the 3S... we'll unless your in the distortion field.
F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:27 · Score: 5, Funny

They did something for some reason that wasn't just to screw over the sheep. Now I can't hate them as much.
1. Re:F$^%$ers by plover · 2012-09-21 04:42 · Score: -1, Troll
  
  They did something for some reason that wasn't just to screw over the sheep. Now I can't hate them as much.
  C'mon, it's Apple. You didn't honestly think they wouldn't let you down like that, would they?
  Here's something extra to hate about them. They took away the god-awful proprietary 30 pin connector, and replaced it with a new god-awful smaller proprietary connector that remains incompatible with the rest of the world. Nobody's old apple-y devices, cables, or chargers will work with their new phones; and non-apple cables or devices will remain incompatible. Yay, Apple, your i5 adopters all get to replace a couple hundred dollars worth of peripherals each.
  Is that enough sheeple screwing to make sure your hate equation remains balanced?
  
  --
  John
2. Re:F$^%$ers by TimHunter · 2012-09-21 04:58 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So are you saying that nothing should ever change about the iPhone connector? Once god-awful 30-pin, always god-awful 30-pin? So that nobody ever has to buy new peripherals?
  Or are you saying that it's okay if they change it (and force everybody to buy new peripherals) but only if they change it to something "compatible"? Note that micro USB isn't doesn't support the functionality the iPhone needs. See http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-lightning-vs-micro-usb-2012-9
3. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 05:06 · Score: 0
  
  I see you got modded -1 Overrated, e.g., -1 Disagree but I concur with your gripe here. If they were going to change connectors anyway why not do their customers a favor and go with standard micro-usb? What is so special about the iPhone that it requires some bulky dongle-esque data/charging plug when practically every other smartphone on the planet with equivalent functionality uses the standard? So now not only will I have to buy new accessories for my iPhone 5 but I can't use my iPad charger with it in a pinch or vice versa. And I'm sure the third-party bauble makers will be sure to charge extra for the privilege of me buying stuff featuring compatibility with said port. And all for basically nothing. Even if you pretended to buy the line that the connector allows more functionality than a micro-usb connector, why not just put the headphone jack and hdmi out next to the connector and call it a day. You'll be able to carry high bandwidth audio, video, and data to your heart's content and the device will still be compatible with all the old chargers and cables you already have laying around or that can be bought for 2 dollars at the drugstore. The way Apple fleeces their customers is shameful and the mind continues to boggle at how they bamboozled the EU into allowing this connector to even exist (or maybe the EU version has micro-usb and only the other 92 percent of the world population is getting offered the raw deal). Either way, it's just the latest money grab and as long as people line up to get screwed over without a peep it will continue to happen. Sad really.
4. Re:F$^%$ers by tlhIngan · 2012-09-21 05:12 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Here's something extra to hate about them. They took away the god-awful proprietary 30 pin connector, and replaced it with a new god-awful smaller proprietary connector that remains incompatible with the rest of the world. Nobody's old apple-y devices, cables, or chargers will work with their new phones; and non-apple cables or devices will remain incompatible. Yay, Apple, your i5 adopters all get to replace a couple hundred dollars worth of peripherals each.
  Well, there comes time to change. The dock connector is nearly a decade old, and being called to do stuff it was never envisioned to do so pins are heavily multiplexed and you still need to have protection circuits (after all, someone could still plug in a +48V firewire cable to it, even if the pins ar eused elsewhere, it still needs ot handle it gracefully). And other stuff get obsolete - do you really need composite, s-video and component video outputs these days? And other stuff gets bodged in (VGA, HDMI, USB host) In the end, the connector's a mess.
  The new cable would at least be a bit more future-proof (the dock connector was designed for a time when iPods were king, and smartphones were a race between Blackberry, PalmOS, and WInMo, tablets were running Windows You can only expand it so much before it starts becoming a legacy maintainance nightmare.
  So a new connector is needed, and it should take in mind it will have to handle stuff that may be coming soon (e.g., 3D, 4K video formats) as well as stuff that no one's thought of yet (because changing connectors is painful). It should also support what made the old connector good - an easy way to get line-out and headphone audio, an easy way to control the iPod and an easy way to get video.
  So the best way to future proof it would be a connector that basically adapts some sort of bidirectional digital signalling system with adapters that produce the final output desired. If some fancy new way to hook up an iDevice to TVs comes out, a new adapter is all it takes (and supporting software), rather than having to figure out how to multiplex pins even more.
  It's probably also why the Lightning to dock adapters are so bloody expensive - they've got signalling chips that transform the digital into stndard analog audio, serial control , etc that the old connector has).
5. Re:F$^%$ers by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 05:18 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I love all the angst over a cable. Isn't this the day and age of wireless syncing? Of online syncing? The only reason I've ever needed my iPhone cable in the past year is to charge it--and before iOS5, I only ever used it for software updates.
  Peripherals? People act as though every iPhone user is now going to have to spend hundreds of dollars buying new peripherals. This ignores two things:
  1. The obvious. There's an adapter you can buy. The Apple one is $30, but you can find them much cheaper on Amazon.
  2. Not every iPhone user will have to spend hundreds on new peripherals. Personally, I will have to spend exactly $0. Of people I know, only one friend will need to buy a $30 set of speakers (that is--if he still uses them).
  I've always found micro-USB a bit annoying to actually plug in. It's not an arduous task or anything, but it sometimes takes a couple tries if the cable manages to go in at an angle. That the new connector is reversible is pretty nifty.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
6. Re:F$^%$ers by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 05:21 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Well, this article supposedly covers some of it: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-lightning-vs-micro-usb-2012-9
  However, not owning a phone with micro-USB, I'm not sure how accurate it is. Anyone care to chime in?
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
7. Re:F$^%$ers by wiggles · 2012-09-21 05:23 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  But they have the [coolest adapters!](http://youtu.be/nf5-Prx19ZM)
8. Re:F$^%$ers by Mike+Buddha · 2012-09-21 05:57 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Note that micro USB isn't doesn't support the functionality the iPhone needs. See http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-lightning-vs-micro-usb-2012-9
  Neither does the Lightning connector. No ipod controls. No analog audio out. No 12-volt charging.
  So why is it that we need this new connector again? One that does less than the previous one but will require all new cables and accessories?
  
  --
  by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
9. Re:F$^%$ers by drinkypoo · 2012-09-21 06:01 · Score: 2
  
  So are you saying that nothing should ever change about the iPhone connector? Once god-awful 30-pin, always god-awful 30-pin? So that nobody ever has to buy new peripherals?
  Or are you saying that it's okay if they change it (and force everybody to buy new peripherals) but only if they change it to something "compatible"? Note that micro USB isn't doesn't support the functionality the iPhone needs.
  
  Apple dropped analog video output so all they actually need is to put all the ports next to one another on the bottom of the phone; stereo mini or micro plug, uHDMI, and uUSB. "Docks" can implement as many connectors as necessary for their functionality. Done and done. Instead they have invented a new proprietary connector so that they can make more money.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
10. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 06:20 · Score: 0
  
  So a new connector is needed, and it should take in mind it will have to handle stuff that may be coming soon (e.g., 3D, 4K video formats) as well as stuff that no one's thought of yet (because changing connectors is painful). It should also support what made the old connector good - an easy way to get line-out and headphone audio, an easy way to control the iPod and an easy way to get video.
  So the best way to future proof it would be a connector that basically adapts some sort of bidirectional digital signalling system with adapters that produce the final output desired. If some fancy new way to hook up an iDevice to TVs comes out, a new adapter is all it takes (and supporting software), rather than having to figure out how to multiplex pins even more.
  Ok, I'll agree with all that -- but which part of that demands that it should be proprietary rather than an open standard, so there would be more devices compatible? That part of it -- the part that rubs people raw -- is all about Apple's profit.
11. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 06:25 · Score: 0, Informative
  
  What?
  Lightning accessories will support iPod controls just fine. The Lightning to 30-pin adapter does not support "iPod Out" which was a screen mirroring mode for docking an iPod/iPhone to an external display/control interface (like the large touchscreens in some cars). With no Lightning accessories available yet, it's not clear if a pure Lightning-Lightning system will provide a replacement for this mode. In any case, iPod controls are still there, even with the adapter.
  Analog output over an all-digital connection is obviously impossible. The whole point of Lightning is to go the Thunderbolt route of adaptive signaling and supporting various protocols and communication methods that don't exist yet. Analog out is available through the DAC in the adapter to legacy accessories that require it, and accessories going forward will be all-digital, obviating any ongoing need for analog audio output.
  12V charging isn't a function of the connector, so I don't even know what you're talking about there.
  The new connector does four main things:
  1. Improved durability and usability (easier to insert, reversible, far less fragile).
  2. Much smaller in surface area and volume than existing in-device hardware
  3. Future-proofing by allowing changes to signaling and data protocols without changing the connector hardware without having to dedicate specific pins or plan around hypothetical future developments in needs for mobile devices.
  4. Comprehensive functionality not offered by USB or MHL (which has its own limitations in connector compatibility, device compatibility, features, and simultaneous use of USB and extended features--on top of not yet even being a ratified standard). MHL might one day be a standard set of communications methods, but it will never be a standard connector with standard implementations across manufacturers. Using a USB connector isn't even specified by MHL.
12. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 06:29 · Score: 0
  
  Which open standard handles all this? Oh, right, there isn't one unless you want to require more processing power (i.e. USB). You're frothing at the mouth over nothing.
13. Re:F$^%$ers by Electricity+Likes+Me · 2012-09-21 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  So are you saying that nothing should ever change about the iPhone connector? Once god-awful 30-pin, always god-awful 30-pin? So that nobody ever has to buy new peripherals?
  Or are you saying that it's okay if they change it (and force everybody to buy new peripherals) but only if they change it to something "compatible"? Note that micro USB isn't doesn't support the functionality the iPhone needs.
  Apple dropped analog video output so all they actually need is to put all the ports next to one another on the bottom of the phone; stereo mini or micro plug, uHDMI, and uUSB. "Docks" can implement as many connectors as necessary for their functionality. Done and done. Instead they have invented a new proprietary connector so that they can make more money.
  This.
  There is no reason other then vendor lock in to invent yet another proprietary connector.
  On my shopping list for a new phone is very much the existence of standardized interfaces - the proprietary cables to my iPhone have been a constant nuisance.
14. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 07:21 · Score: 0
  
  Apple just invented an in-house standard -- they could publish a specification.
  But they don't -- hurting their customers for their own profit. As long as customers still feel it's better than the alternatives, that's all well and good. But don't expect me to like it.
15. Re:F$^%$ers by Mike+Buddha · 2012-09-21 07:23 · Score: 2
  
  12V charging isn't a function of the connector, so I don't even know what you're talking about there.
  The 12-volt capability is part of the firewire support. There are two pins for 12V power, and two pins for 5V. Many car connectors and chargers used this for iPod and iPhone charging in the past, but Apple stopped supporting it in the iPhone as of the 3GS.
  You forgot one item on the new connector "feature" list:
  5. It's an all digital connector allowing Apple to add an authentication chip to the cable to restrict third party manufacturers from creating low cost compatible hardware, the same way that the iPod controls on the headsets work now.
  Yep, the primary reason Apple is changing to this connector rather than a standard one is so that they can screw you into buying their cables and only accessories that they've licensed. If they went with Thunderbolt they wouldn't have complete control the way they want.
  I have no problem embracing a change like this, if I'm getting something for my investment. Right now, I'd get less than what I have and I'd have to pay a premium for it. I'm not buying unicorn horns and pixie dust; if they want to sell me something, they are selling me what they have right now and not what they will have eventually. Seriously, they couldn't have made their flagship product compatible with Thunderbolt or USB 3 for launch?
  
  --
  by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
16. Re:F$^%$ers by rtfa-troll · 2012-09-21 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  So are you saying that nothing should ever change about the iPhone connector?
  They could have made a new open connector and encouraged other phone manufacturers to use that. Then I would have no problem with this. Even if they never managed to persuade any other manufacturer, that would at least show they are trying.
  
  --
  =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
17. Re:F$^%$ers by c++0xFF · 2012-09-21 08:18 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  That link is a summary of anouer summary of another summary, and is quite simply stupid and incorrect.
  Instead, look at the source link: http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/13/boom-2/
  and a follow-up post: http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/18/boom-a-follow-up/
  Lightning definitely has advantages over micro USB. And one big disadvantage: it's proprietary. Most manufacturers, thankfully, have to go with something standard, but Apple has the clout to ignore standards to their own (and, arguably, their customers') benefit.
18. Re:F$^%$ers by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, they could have done this. And then the phone would be bigger.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
19. Re:F$^%$ers by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 08:51 · Score: 2
  
  Thanks for those articles. Some interesting reading.
  With that said, I still don't understand the hangup with the cable being proprietary. In six years of owning iPods and iPhones, as well as random devices that use micro-USB, I've never been annoyed at having to use two different cables. Honestly, the Lightning connector, despite the silly name, looks to be a better cable than micro-USB--namely, that should be easier to insert and is reversible. Is it really that big a deal, or are people looking for reasons to get upset?
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
20. Re:F$^%$ers by cyber-vandal · 2012-09-21 08:57 · Score: 2
  
  How does that work for iPod / iPhone docks where the idea is that the device fits snugly in the dock? Or for hi fis and car sound systems with the same thing? A lot of people have been shafted by this. Just because you and your friends haven't is pretending that the vast market for 3rd party peripherals is irrelevant.
21. Re:F$^%$ers by nightfell · 2012-09-21 10:05 · Score: 1
  
  It has all those things, what are you talking about?
22. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 10:24 · Score: 0
  
  > One that does less than the previous one but will require all new cables and accessories
  It requires a new cable, which is included with the phone. It also includes an adapter to use it with the old connector, which means you can still use most of your accessories.
  Get over it.
23. Re:F$^%$ers by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  Buy a new dock. You just bought a new phone anyway so you might as well.
24. Re:F$^%$ers by drinkypoo · 2012-09-21 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, they could have done this. And then the phone would be bigger.
  [citation needed]
  Right now they have a headphone jack not grouped with the other port, that takes up space too. Unless you have done an in-depth analysis of the PCB and componentry you can't say this with any authority. And even if it were bigger, the difference in volume might well be essentially indistinguishable, which calls into question the relevance of the idea.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
25. Re:F$^%$ers by kaatochacha · 2012-09-21 11:48 · Score: 1
  
  Here's a easy example why I'm upset. I'm looking to buy a nice Sony Ipod speaker dock (RDP-X500IP). About $200, I've tested them in the store, sounds very good. It interfaces nicely with the ipod, and allows you to use a remote control to control the songs and volume. However... this integration only works if the ipod is on the dock, anything plugged in through audio-in doesn't have that function. So If i buy it, I Have to keep using my ipod forever. Or give up the functionality. Or wait for a newer version which WON'T work with my current ipod. Sigh.
26. Re:F$^%$ers by kaatochacha · 2012-09-21 11:49 · Score: 1
  
  And there's the answer: "Just buy more stuff". Thanks.
27. Re:F$^%$ers by c++0xFF · 2012-09-21 11:53 · Score: 2
  
  To me, at least, it's a matter of getting along and playing nicely. It's a matter of how Apple treats me as their customer and as a potential customer of their partners.
  Moving beyond the 30-pin dock is a good thing. It outlived its usefulness, and making a change is a necessary evil. Let's take all of that as a given.
  So, Apple has three choices here:
  1) Do what all other major manufacturers have done and move to micro USB. Add on MHL for video. This has the huge advantage of being standard and inexpensive, but maybe it lacks a feature that Apple wants (a cynic would point to royalties and vendor lock-in as Apple's most desired feature, but a more fair viewpoint would be features that make accessories easier to make). Micro USB is certainly not the best, but it works quite well for other phone and tablets. If you want to be fancy, move to USB 3.0.
  2) Work with other industry partners to establish a new standard. Actually work with Samsung, Motorola, LG, and HTC for once. This shows that Apple can actually play nice in the field of electronics and has the interests of the consumer in mind. This would (eventually) rid the world of micro USB and it's problems while still giving Apple the features it might want. Accessories are less expensive and work with all devices. Everybody wins! Well, except maybe for Apple since it doesn't have control over the connector anymore.
  3) Develop your own proprietary connection. Still has to be compatible with micro USB chargers. Screws over loyal customers by making their accessories obsolete unless they pay for expensive adapters, which might not even work anyway. Makes all accessories more expensive due to royalties on the new connector (rumor is $4 to $10 per connector or 10% of accessory price, whichever is greater). Makes all accessories more expensive since you can't take advantage of economies of scale. And so on and so on. But at least we get a reversible connector now, right?
  Basically, Apple could have gone with something standard. Or they could have been a partner in the industry and worked to develop a new standard that makes everyone happy. If you're going to change connectors anyway, why not do the right thing? Instead, they show disdain for their own customers and future potential customers.
  And this is what they do as they lose market share? Well, I'm sure not going to switch to an iPhone because of Lightning, but I might never buy an Apple device again because of it. I don't like how they're treating me as a potential customer, and I really, really like having a standard charger in every room of the house. (If other electronics manufacturers started using Lightning, my tune might change a bit. Let's be realistic, though ... that will never happen.)
28. Re:F$^%$ers by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  Why not get the adapter?
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
29. Re:F$^%$ers by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 15:06 · Score: 1
  
  There we go--a well-reasoned explanation for why it's annoying the new connector is proprietary.
  Personally, I think that #2 would have been the best option--try to make Lightning an industry standard. My boss got the new iPhone 5 today, and I got to play with it for a few minutes (very nice phone; feels great). The new connector is pretty slick. It is much easier to insert than micro-USB, feels durable, and being reversible is a nice little plus. I buy Apple products, but I do wish they would work more with the industry. Of course, sometimes they try and the industry lashes out against them (or at least some of the players). See the whole nano-SIM thing for an example.
  As for why they didn't go with micro-USB, the linked articles above go into the possible reasons--namely, that it would have required more space (micro-USB 3 would have required a lot more space, both on the logic board and with the plug).
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
30. Re:F$^%$ers by c++0xFF · 2012-09-21 16:09 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure I agree with that blogger on some points. USB 3 is only about 2 or 3 mm wider than Lightning. And if they can put a Lightning controller on the SoC, they can do the same for USB. Do other phones even have an external USB controller? I doubt it. Even Arduinos have inboard controllers.
  There are good reasons for not using USB, but I doubt space is really one of them.
31. Re:F$^%$ers by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 00:22 · Score: 1
  
  Apple dropped analog video output so all they actually need is to put all the ports next to one another on the bottom of the phone; stereo mini or micro plug, uHDMI, and uUSB. "Docks" can implement as many connectors as necessary for their functionality.
  Well, so why doesn't anybody do it that way?
  Oh, and in case you haven't noticed: Lightning is not a dock connector, the dock is dead.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
32. Re:F$^%$ers by drinkypoo · 2012-09-22 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  Well, so why doesn't anybody do it that way?
  
  Because no one but Apple gives one tenth of one fuck about docks.
  
  Oh, and in case you haven't noticed: Lightning is not a dock connector, the dock is dead.
  I guess you made my point for me. If it's not a dock connector, then there is no need whatsoever for all those signals to be even on the same side of the phone, let alone on one connector.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
33. Re:F$^%$ers by AmiMoJo · 2012-09-22 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  It's the way Apple uses the connector to extract money from you. With the original dock connector they kept changing the USB charger in subtle ways to break third party cables and chargers. Some of it is detailed here.
  So they force you to buy expensive Apple products. To be fair Dell and HP also tried to jump on that bandwagon by making their high end model laptops refuse to work with generic chargers, but Apple does it with everything.
  There is also the annoyance of not being able to just hook up your device for a charge or to copy some data at a friends house unless you brought a cable, and even then you need iTunes and it won't let you copy some stuff off the device. USB isn't perfect but it really is universal.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
34. Re:F$^%$ers by mjwx · 2012-09-22 04:13 · Score: 0
  
  They did something for some reason that wasn't just to screw over the sheep. Now I can't hate them as much.
  Dont worry, the sheep weren't considered in this move. It was done to save money, every cent they dont spend on making the Iphone is another cent in profit they can extract from the sheep.
  
  Behead all those who disrespect the profit.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
35. Re:F$^%$ers by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  Well, so why doesn't anybody do it that way?
  Because no one but Apple gives one tenth of one fuck about docks.
  Ohh, so your point wasn't actually about hooking up peripherals, but about docks. Silly me, I thought we were talking about technology not about "the shiny" - I should have known that's all you Fandroids care about.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
36. Re:F$^%$ers by drinkypoo · 2012-09-22 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  Ohh, so your point wasn't actually about hooking up peripherals, but about docks. Silly me, I thought we were talking about technology not about "the shiny" - I should have known that's all you Fandroids care about.
  I already knew you didn't have a valid argument, but thanks for proving it by going for the insult instead of providing some sort of evidence supporting your view. Troll detected, comment invalidated, don't come back now y'all.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
37. Re:F$^%$ers by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  And I already knew you didn't have a valid argument before you did else you wouldn't have claimed USB is so kewl.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
38. Re:F$^%$ers by cyber-vandal · 2012-09-22 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  Cool buy a new dock, a new hi fi, hell even a new car. Plus buy an accurate GPS app. Economic stimulus Apple-style.
Already Patented by ra1n85 · 2012-09-21 04:36 · Score: -1, Troll

I'm nearly certain that "repairibility" is patented.
Sue them!
1. Re:Already Patented by mcgrew · 2012-09-21 05:50 · Score: 1
  
  I'm nearly certain that "repairibility" is patented.
  
  No, Apple has the patent on "repairability" which is why the summary was forced to misspell it.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
Perhaps a better screw by pubwvj · 2012-09-21 04:37 · Score: 2

Pentalobe fasteners are not a big deal. New and different screws, nuts and bolts are all the rage. It's been happening for, what, the last century? More? Sometimes they're actually an improvement and stick in the industry as the next great thing. The tools become available very quickly, or some of us make our own...
1. Re:Perhaps a better screw by ColdWetDog · 2012-09-21 05:59 · Score: 1
  
  Except that no one has figured out a business case for the pentilobe other than messing with customer's heads. They could have switched out the Phillip's for Torx - that would be an improvement in a number of areas and follows an industry standard. But they had to make one of their own for some bizarre reason.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
2. Re:Perhaps a better screw by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 07:01 · Score: 0
  
  The reason is that they couldn't make one with the hole shaped like an apple.
3. Re:Perhaps a better screw by Algae_94 · 2012-09-21 07:38 · Score: 1
  
  But is the pentalobe fastener an improvement? Torx would be just fine and is used across the industry in small electronic devices. They even have tamper resistant torx that have a dot in the center.
  
  The pentalobe connector is only used by Apple. No one else uses it. Most likely because it isn't any better. It only serves to sell new tools, or have some people that would otherwise have done their own repairs to take it to an authorized repair shop. The tamper resistant torx would have done the same.
  
  I sometimes wonder why Apple didn't just switch to one way screws.
4. Re:Perhaps a better screw by pubwvj · 2012-09-21 07:53 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You're thinking about it the wrong way. The new screw in each case is a challenge, a hurdle, an intelligence test. If you haven't got what it takes to figure out how to open the device then perhaps you shouldn't.
5. Re:Perhaps a better screw by Megane · 2012-09-21 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  It's bad enough that people actually believed a hoax about a new custom screw head from Apple.
  
  --
  #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
6. Re:Perhaps a better screw by c++0xFF · 2012-09-21 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  There's one very good business case for pentalobe screws: make it so that only shops that pay a royalty can legally repair an iDevice.
  Fortunately, its possible to get pentalobe drivers anyway.
7. Re:Perhaps a better screw by NoMaster · 2012-09-21 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  No one else uses it. Most likely because it isn't any better. It only serves to sell new tools, or have some people that would otherwise have done their own repairs to take it to an authorized repair shop. The tamper resistant torx would have done the same.
  
  The original Torx design was invented & patented in the late 60's; the patent ran out in the mid-90's (they tried to separately patent Torx TR but couldn't). In between, people said exactly the same thing about it.
  Funny how "evil" becomes "good" as soon as you can buy a screwdriver for it. Would you be complaining about Apple's Evil Screws if they'd used Torx Plus, which are still patented?
  
  --
  What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
8. Re:Perhaps a better screw by Algae_94 · 2012-09-21 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I never said it was "evil" or "good", and I probably would complain if they used Torx Plus.
  
  Torx may have upset people originally, but it does have advantages over Phillips screws. Torx Plus doesn't give the same sort of improvement. The Pentalobe fasteners likewise are not any better than Torx. Why not use the same fasteners everyone else does? This isn't like the new connector, which can be argued to offer more than the standard microUSB. This is a fastener.
9. Re:Perhaps a better screw by MagusSlurpy · 2012-09-21 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  You realize Apple's now going to do that on the next model and then sue you for stealing their idea, right?
  (And then probably sue me for having this idea)
  
  --
  My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
10. Re:Perhaps a better screw by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 14:41 · Score: 0
  
  But is the pentalobe fastener an improvement? Torx would be just fine and is used across the industry in small electronic devices. They even have tamper resistant torx that have a dot in the center.
  The Pentalobe screws Apple uses in the iPhone are equivalent to Torx T1 (the smallest size). Tamper resistant Torx only seems to go down to T7 or so, which is a much larger screw head:
  http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Wiha%20PDFs/Tamper%20Resistant%20Torx.pdf
  I'd guess that rolling their own tamper-resistant-by-obscurity screw head design was out of necessity. There just aren't that many security bits so small.
  
  I sometimes wonder why Apple didn't just switch to one way screws.
  Er, they do repair their own products, you know.
11. Re:Perhaps a better screw by NoMaster · 2012-09-25 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough - I should've probably said "people", not "you" specifically.
  But from an engineering viewpoint, Apple's pentalobe screw seems to have quite a few features - shallow tool head depth, maximum tool contact surface, no sharp corners (weak spots), fairly large tool self-centreing zone, and less likely to be damaged from cam-out - which are advantageous for tiny machine-inserted screws.
  When they started appearing on the iPhone 4, my first thought was "that's quite an elegant design solution to the typical problems of small screws" (e.g. heads large enough to be strong but that also require a fairly large recess / countersink; )
  
  --
  What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Lightning vs micro-usb by SuneSpeg · 2012-09-21 04:40 · Score: 1

Will the lightning->micro usb adapter be free of charge (naive,and against the spirit of the EU directive), or how will this device comply with EN 301489-34 directive?
1. Re:Lightning vs micro-usb by tlhIngan · 2012-09-21 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  Will the lightning->micro usb adapter be free of charge (naive,and against the spirit of the EU directive), or how will this device comply with EN 301489-34 directive?
  I believe in the EU boxes, they don't provide a USB-Lightning cable, but a USB-micro cable + micro-Lightning adapter. Just like they did for the iPhone 4s and others - a USB-micro cable and a micro-dock adapter. It's hard to tell, but where the strain relief is on the normal USB-dock cable, it's actually a little nub for the USB micro cable. A quick glance or at a distance and it's impossible ot tell.
  So it complies - EU folks get a different cable to begin with and have the option of buying more.
2. Re:Lightning vs micro-usb by joh · 2012-09-21 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  It looks as if Apple will comply by offering to sell you an adapter if you need one.
  I'm not really sure if they'll get away with this.
3. Re:Lightning vs micro-usb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 05:01 · Score: 1
  
  Ships in the box free with all euro models. This is an AUS unit, so no freebies. It's ok. They're used to being price gouged on consumer goods anyway.
  I know most people don't care, but I'm actually fine with the new dock connector. I feel the reasoning behind picking it are sound, especially if you understand Apple's motives. Here are my guesses for the major reasons:
  1. USB 3.0 - The usb 2.0 micro B connector is small, but the 3.0 version is gigantic in comparison! I really don't understand the design. It's side-by-side design is more than 2x larger, for only 2x the pins. Putting the usb 3.0 B connector on the phone would take as much space as the old 30pin dock connector. - As far as I know, the iphone 5 is the first phone to implement usb 3.0.
  2. Mechanical - The dock connector is also a mechanical mount of sorts. The phone rests on it when in a cradle, and uses it for stablity. The standard mini B connector does not provide this function
  2a. It looks like the new dock connector is made for a very long life with many insertions. I know the mini b connector is supposed to be engineered for this too, but I've got a feeling that apple's engineers found it inadiequte during their own testing. (I've also seen evidence that the mini b connector has long life mechanical issues
  3. Reversable- Its easy to plug in. don't have to worry about up or down. This may seem trivial, but this feature alone is a HUGE win for usablity. You'd be surprised how much people value not having to deal with a frequent but minor annoyance.
  3a. The above is actually a side effect of a more important feature - Logic driven, programmable interface. The old 30 dock connector was in many ways pretty low tech and analog. It had a lot of redundant pins with different uses. You often had to do strange things like put resistors or diodes on certain pins, and which pins were actually active would vary between device. The new port is a completely digital, with all functions being enumerated over a common protocol. It also looks like the port is able to configure and assign pins on the fly (Outputting whatever signal is needed at the moment) It cleans up almost 10 years of cruft and hacks and adds a lot of new possibilities.
4. Re:Lightning vs micro-usb by FreeFire · 2012-09-21 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  The new lightning connector isn't USB 3.0, it's still 2.0 I doubt if USB 3.0 would make much difference on any current phones; I don't believe they can even saturate USB 2.0.
5. Re:Lightning vs micro-usb by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 05:57 · Score: 0
  
  I could of sworn I'd seen that during the livecast of the keynote. Further searching is inconclusive. (Some people think it does, others do not)
  Still, one COULD run usb 3.0 over the new dock connector in the future (And the old 30 pin one too, with some pin reassignment) And you would not have to give up any of your old docks or cables.
  For that matter, I'm entirely certain usb 2 is the bottleneck for transfers on/off my iphone 4. It's not hard to saturate usb2, given that the protocol is pretty inefficient and has lots of overhead.
6. Re:Lightning vs micro-usb by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  Will the lightning->micro usb adapter be free of charge (naive,and against the spirit of the EU directive), or how will this device comply with EN 301489-34 directive?
  First of all: "EN 301489-34 directive"? Do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about? The ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) standard EN 301 489-34 handles the "Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio spectrum Matters (ERM); ElectroMagnetic Compatibility (EMC) standard for radio equipment and services; Part 34: Specific conditions for External Power Supply (EPS) for mobile phones"
  And you can claim that the use of an adapter is against the spirit of the EU directive all you want, because the directive actually specifically allows their use.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
You've got to admit... by tippe · 2012-09-21 04:43 · Score: 1

They have nice hardware designs. If only all electronics were that well made.
Too bad they're such assholes though... it means I won't be buying one.
Pentalobe is not proprietary by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 04:46 · Score: 4, Informative

I've had pentalobe drivers since before Jobs went back to apple and at least 15 years before the iPhone ever existed.
Just because you aren't used to seeing them on all the crap you buy designed to be as cheap as possible.
Pentalobe bolts are about a thousand times more reliable than Phillips heads, which are DESIGNED TO STRIP WHEN CRAPPY FACTORY WORKERS OVER TORQUE the screw/bolt during assembly.
Every time you call pentalobe proprietary you just make your ignorance and inner fanboy obvious.
1. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by h4rr4r · 2012-09-21 04:52 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Torx fulfills that need and is far more common.
  Like you said, with phillips heads the bit jumping the grooves is a design feature not a flaw.
  Pentalobe is just a little less common, but not hard to get either.
2. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by Baloroth · 2012-09-21 05:02 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I've had pentalobe drivers since before Jobs went back to apple and at least 15 years before the iPhone ever existed.
  Just because you aren't used to seeing them on all the crap you buy designed to be as cheap as possible.
  I call BS on this, everything I've googled is stating that Pentalobe is a new design that Apple came up with. It is very similar to the Torx screw, but incompatible by design. Unless you have some link to prove that pentalobe is not a new design, I'm gonna say you are shilling or mistaken.
  
  --
  "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
3. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by shoes58 · 2012-09-21 05:34 · Score: 0
  
  I call BS on your BS! Here, took all of 5 seconds to find: http://www.mcmaster.com/#pentalobe-screwdriver-bits/=je2gwq Troll...
4. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by Baloroth · 2012-09-21 05:40 · Score: 2
  
  "Five-Point Tamper-Resistant Torx-Plus" =/= Pentalobe, the shape is very definitely different (Torx-Plus is pentagonal with straight side, pentalobe has... lobular sides). See Wikipedia for a picture. Note that this is probably the source of the confusion: it looks almost, but not quite, like a Torx.
  
  --
  "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
5. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by FreeFire · 2012-09-21 05:47 · Score: 3
  
  I looked at Google stuff too, and found nowhere that claimed the Pentalobular is a NEW design by Apple. Torx has a Pentalobular in various sizes; I'd presume they've been around for a while, especially since they come in sizes not used by Apple.
6. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by CaptBubba · 2012-09-21 05:49 · Score: 2
  
  That is a different design/layout, missing the indentations between the points of the screw driver. Here's the one used on the iPhone: http://twitpic.com/3rt9sa
  You might be able to drive the Apple screw with the torx bit,but the bumps in the screw head look like they would block it. That's assuming you could get one small enough. Nobody is saying that there were not 5-spline screw heads before the iPhone 4, just that this particular head is new and apparently chosen as it was esoteric enough that existing 5-spline bits wouldn't fit.
7. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by drinkypoo · 2012-09-21 05:58 · Score: 2
  
  Pentalobe bolts are about a thousand times more reliable than Phillips heads, which are DESIGNED TO STRIP WHEN CRAPPY FACTORY WORKERS OVER TORQUE the screw/bolt during assembly.
  Uh no. Philips was invented to eliminate cam-out, which it all but does when the screwdriver is lined up perfectly with the screw. Since it doesn't actually eliminate cam-out, we got torx, which does. And since Torx is more expensive to make than philips (especially the fasteners themselves) we also got ACR, or "anti cam-out ridges". These little ridges ground into the tips of screwdrivers are usually found on tools with snazzy names including "bite" and such, and they provide the same function for the tip of the tool that knurling provides for your fingers: grip.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
8. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by Tastecicles · 2012-09-21 06:13 · Score: 3
  
  According to this the Pentalobe is an Apple invention. I'm not gonna go do a patent search, I'll leave that to some other genius.
  
  --
  Operation Guillotine is in effect.
9. Re:Pentalobe is not proprietary by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 15:50 · Score: 0
  
  Uh no. Philips was invented to eliminate cam-out, which it all but does when the screwdriver is lined up perfectly with the screw.
  Uh, no. That is the opposite of the truth. Phillips intentionally designed his screwdriver to cam out under too much torque. It was a primitive method of preventing over-torque.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips
  
  Since it doesn't actually eliminate cam-out, we got torx, which does.
  No, we got Torx because of the invention of precision adjustable torque-limiting drivers, which decouple the source of drive torque from the bit as soon as torque rises too high (i.e. when the screw gets tight enough). These made it possible for factory workers to use no-cam-out screw head designs instead of Phillips.
  That alone wasn't reason enough for Torx, since simple no-cam-out designs like square and hex socket screws already existed. However, those socket designs had a problem. Think about how a small square strikes a larger square when rotated (draw it on paper if it helps). The contact points are the corners of the bit. In high torque applications this concentration of force damages bits and screw heads. The star design of Torx bits transmits force through large planar contact patches, at better angles. That's why they're called "Torx" -- the trademark was chosen to sound like "torque" because you can put a lot more torque through a Torx bit without damaging things.
Data comm speed - guess LTW means nothing... by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 04:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

Not considering the above mention of score, data comm speed are the same and multimedia roughly the same.
The inclusion of LTE alone marks that statement wrong.
Oh and playing music and sound quality? Hasn't changed much since the 3S
Which is why some people buy better headphones.
It's a phone, not a movie theater. The built in speakers are always worse than better headphone options.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Data comm speed - guess LTW means nothing... by immaterial · 2012-09-21 05:34 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I'm surprised you didn't catch this. There HAS been a significant upgrade to the speakers and microphones in the iPhone 5 (and to top it off, Apple is working with carriers to improve audio quality during calls as well).
  
  http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/09/12/iphone-5-three-mics/
2. Re:Data comm speed - guess LTW means nothing... by AmiMoJo · 2012-09-22 01:53 · Score: 1
  
  Actually he does have a point about the sound, it is kinda weak on quality headphones. A lot of phones suffer from that problem, which is why some people carry battery powered amps for their phones. You can actually get them in a sort of backshell that fits in the iPhone specifically, or just a generic shape for any phone.
  In particular the "Apple sound" has always lacked bass. It used to be muddy in the mid range up to the 3rd gen iPods, after which they moved to a transistor based output buffer. My guess is they were going for quality so didn't ramp the lower end up like some manufacturers do. Overall I'd say they are on a par with Samsung but behind Meizu and Sony.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Complies with spirit by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 04:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

The real point behind the directive is that over time people just have USB chargers they can use with anything, right?
Well the iPhone ships with a USB charger. Sure the port at the other end is different but in the end you can have one charger for many devices, with just a few cables.
An important point to consider is that if you just stick yourself with pure USB end to end, you cannot get as much power through the system to charge quickly.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Complies with spirit by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 06:03 · Score: 0
  
  The real point behind the directive is that over time people just have USB chargers they can use with anything, right?
  Well the iPhone ships with a USB charger. Sure the port at the other end is different but in the end you can have one charger for many devices, with just a few cables.
  Yes, with just a few cables. In case you missed it, the point was not to "just have USB chargers and a few cables". Motorola managed to expand a mini-USB with additional contacts for audio and such, while still being compatible with a standard mini-B cable -- surely it's not like Apple couldn't do something similar for micro-B if they put their minds to it? Then it could ship with a standard micro-B charger as intended by the standard, but docks could use the custom connector with extra contacts for more magic.
  
  An important point to consider is that if you just stick yourself with pure USB end to end, you cannot get as much power through the system to charge quickly.
  Bullshit. V1.2 of the USB battery charging specification permits up to 5A of current. This dates to 2010, so it's not like Apple hasn't had plenty of time to use it instead of their proprietary plug.
2. Re:Complies with spirit by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 07:38 · Score: 0
  
  The real point behind the directive is that over time people just have USB chargers they can use with anything, right?
  Well the iPhone ships with a USB charger. Sure the port at the other end is different but in the end you can have one charger for many devices, with just a few cables.
  Yes, with just a few cables. In case you missed it, the point was not to "just have USB chargers and a few cables". Motorola managed to expand a mini-USB with additional contacts for audio and such, while still being compatible with a standard mini-B cable -- surely it's not like Apple couldn't do something similar for micro-B if they put their minds to it? Then it could ship with a standard micro-B charger as intended by the standard, but docks could use the custom connector with extra contacts for more magic.
  
  An important point to consider is that if you just stick yourself with pure USB end to end, you cannot get as much power through the system to charge quickly.
  Bullshit. V1.2 of the USB battery charging specification permits up to 5A of current. This dates to 2010, so it's not like Apple hasn't had plenty of time to use it instead of their proprietary plug.
  The Micro-USB not. Its limit is 850mAh. So have fun with charging an iPad for 24 hours.
3. Re:Complies with spirit by Algae_94 · 2012-09-21 07:43 · Score: 0
  
  Bullshit. V1.2 of the USB battery charging specification permits up to 5A of current. This dates to 2010, so it's not like Apple hasn't had plenty of time to use it instead of their proprietary plug.
  If anyone is not quite sure how much 5 A is, it is enough to power a small belt sander. If there is a device that takes more current to charge than a belt sander, I'd love to hear about it.
4. Re:Complies with spirit by _xeno_ · 2012-09-21 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  I have something like five iPhone dock cables - these are cables I've built up from owning various iPods over the years.
  Of course, I have even more USB micro-B cables. You know, the data cable that every fucking phone that isn't an Apple piece of shit uses? And then, even more USB mini-B cables. (By "mini/micro B" I mean the A end is standard sized.)
  Do you know how many iPhone 5 cables I have? Absolutely none! Moving the iPhone 5 off the crap Apple needless proprietary cable is a good idea. Replacing it with a brand new proprietary cable? Absolutely braindead.
  Do you know why it's nice to have everything use one cable? Because I carry around a USB micro B and two USB mini B cables with my laptop. I have a couple of USB cables connected to my PS3 at home. I have a couple connected to my desktop. If I arrive at work and need to charge my phone, I don't need to go hunting for a cable, I already have one dedicated to my work computer!
  And, no, they don't need a "special dock cable" to do video out or whatever Apple's bullshit reason is for that. Every single digital camera I've ever owned for the past decade managed to do video out without needing a proprietary connector. The newer ones even include HDMI.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
5. Re:Complies with spirit by Megane · 2012-09-21 08:09 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  5 amps at 5 volts is 25 watts. 5 amps at 110 volts is 550 watts. That's 22 times the power. Lrn2electricity.
  
  --
  #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
6. Re:Complies with spirit by Shatrat · 2012-09-21 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  The lower limit is 850mAh, most host devices are going to supply much more than that. My Samsung charges in much less than 24 hours, even when charging from my laptop on battery.
  
  --
  09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
7. Re:Complies with spirit by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 10:28 · Score: 0
  
  You're a fucking retard.
8. Re:Complies with spirit by TuringCheck · 2012-09-22 01:54 · Score: 1
  But even if they would accept a micro USB cable - direct or through an adaptor - the iThingies need a different charger than the standard used by everybody else:
  
  Small devices that just suck 5V and don't look at data pins would charge from anything
  iThingies charge only from Apple style chargers, a set of 4 resistors in the charger indicate maximum amperage
  Anything else follows the USB chaging standard that shorts together the data pins and optionally uses 2 resistors in the charger to indicate maximum amperage if higher than 500mA
  Since everybody and his dog seems to manufacture only Apple compatible chargers these days I ended up buying a 5V 2 x 1A Hama iThingie charger which I replaced resistors and turned into a charger of 2 x (anything but Apple).
Sooo... by Lucas123 · 2012-09-21 04:53 · Score: 1

They're making their smart phones more repairable and their MacBooks less repairable? I'm not following the line of logic.
1. Re:Sooo... by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 05:27 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's perfectly logical: Making it easier to repair makes it cheaper (for the tech) to repair.
  1. They sell more iPhones than they do MacBooks.
  2. iPhones break more than MacBooks--there's #1, and also the fact that people carry their phones everywhere.
  3. The most common breaking point of an iPhone is the screen.
  4. Making the screen easier to remove makes it cheaper to replace.
  MacBooks don't have nearly the number of accidents, so they can lock it down a bit more in their quest for nicely fitting and ultra-thin hardware.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
2. Re:Sooo... by jbolden · 2012-09-21 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  The line of logic is simple: repairability is a plus since it cuts their repair costs. Repair costs a relatively larger on the phones than the computer and Apple loses money on phone warranties. That being said, they are willing to lose money for thin and light.
3. Re:Sooo... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 06:26 · Score: 0
  
  Because you are missing the point. "Repairability" isn't a primary design goal of either one.
  Smaller, thinner,lighter,better are the drivers. More "repairable" in a laptop means compromising
  on other things, so they don't do it. (Note this is a side effect - Contrary to the iHaters who
  say they do it intentionally to screw people over). I the case here, moving to the uni-body housing
  makes the phone smaller, lighter but also means easier to assemble/disassemble.
Most things still work by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 04:58 · Score: -1

a new god-awful smaller proprietary connector that remains incompatible with the rest of the world.
When it's something the whole world uses, it's incompatible with the world. The fact was that the old connector you could find cables for just about anywhere on earth, in fact easier than some specific types of USB cables (since there are several slight variations).
The new cable will, over time, be as widely used and available - so then how is it incompatible if everyone uses it?
Nobody's old apple-y devices, cables, or chargers will work with their new phones;
All of the devices will, thanks to the adaptor (and one of the reasons why it's expensive is that in includes a digital to audio adaptor so all the old peripherals WILL work).
As for chargers, all of them will work since Apple has always shipped USB chargers, and all of the other USB chargers will work with the new phone too.
Yay, Apple, your i5 adopters all get to replace a couple hundred dollars worth of peripherals each.
Or spend $30 to make use of them all.
Is that enough sheeple screwing to make sure your hate equation remains balanced?
Alternate thought - let go of the hate and don't live your life with a bitter tinge aimed at a mere company.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Most things still work by h4rr4r · 2012-09-21 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  Because not everyone will use it. Everyone however does use mini-usb on something, and mini-usb phones sell far more total units. Apple should at least support that without an adaptor.
2. Re:Most things still work by toadlife · 2012-09-21 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  As for chargers, all of them will work since Apple has always shipped USB chargers, and all of the other USB chargers will work with the new phone too.
  This is simply not true. Only one end of the chargers Apple uses is USB. The other end is proprietary, and Apple charges a $4-per-connector royalty fee for any accessory that uses their proprietary connector.
  If they would have made their new connector compatible with micro usb by taking the form factor and adding proprietary features they desired, people could use their existing micro usb cables (which over the last few years has become THE defacto standard for all non-apple devices) to charge their iphones. Instead, when the cable that comes with the phone goes bad or gets left at home, and an iphone user has to buy a compatible cable to charge their phones, and Apple gets another $4.
  Go to a store with an electronics section and find the mobile phone chargers. You'll find there are two classes or chargers; chargers that charge everything and chargers that charge everything but idevices. The chargers that charge everything but idevices will cost about $5 less.
  Apple having these proprietary connectors is all about milking their captive market out of every last dime they have.
  If you don't mind being nickle and dimed like that, that's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking Apple's connector is about anything other than sucking money out of it's customer's wallets.
  
  --
  I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
3. Re:Most things still work by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 07:16 · Score: 2
  
  This is simply not true. Only one end of the chargers Apple uses is USB.
  It is true because ANY USB charger will work with that Apple cable to charge an iPhone 5.
  If they would have made their new connector compatible with micro usb by taking the form factor and adding proprietary features they desired
  Then we would have a cable with a worse connector at one end. To me it's absurd to settle for a USB micro connector, in the future that connector will limit speed of transfer and other things devices can do even if you attach proprietary meanings to some pins... the connectors are simple smaller than on the new Apple connector.
  You'll find there are two classes or chargers; chargers that charge everything and chargers that charge everything but idevices.
  This is not an iPhone problem.
  And further shows why USB SUCKS as a standard for anything.
  Generally though, iPhones will charge with ANY USB charger. It's iPads that have more issues as they need more power.
  Apple having these proprietary connectors is all about milking their captive market out of every last dime they have.
  And has nothing at all do to with having a more capable connector with the capacity for much higher data transfer speeds, of course. It's purely to screw YOU even though it represents a tremendous amount of extra work for them.
  Mission accomplished Apple! Toadlife considers himself screwed.
  If you don't mind being nickle and dimed like that
  Nickel and dimed how? I have a cable, perhaps two that I use for the life of the device. For the new connector I have an adaptor I use when I need an adaptor, the need for which diminishes over time. This is not a "nickel and dime" recurring bleed, this is a one time charge to adapt to a connector that is is better and simpler - than either the older iPhone connector OR Micro-USB.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
4. Re:Most things still work by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  You don't need an adaptor, just the standard Apple cable. It attaches to any USB device to charge. Mini-USB isn't a standard either, I have a mini-uSB cable for my hard drives that does not work with my camera because it has a DIFFERENT mini-USB connector. So as far as I'm concerned when using USB you already have to deal with several cables anyway and the Apple cable is just one more.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
5. Re:Most things still work by h4rr4r · 2012-09-21 07:30 · Score: 1
  
  Mini-USB is a set of standards.
  I actually meant micro-usb 5 pin. That as far as I can tell all android phones use.
6. Re:Most things still work by toadlife · 2012-09-21 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  And has nothing at all do to with having a more capable connector with the capacity for much higher data transfer speeds
  No, it doesn't.
  
  even though it represents a tremendous amount of extra work for them.
  You honestly believe that inventing an entirely new connector takes less work that taking an existing standard form factor and adding pins to suit your needs?
  
  --
  I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
7. Re:Most things still work by phayes · 2012-09-21 08:56 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The only thing I have ever seen a micro-USB on is phones. The apple dock connector however has become common on clock radios, speakers & a plethora of docks. As micro-USB does not have enough pins for some dock functions, is not reversible, cannot furnish the wattage necessary to quick charge an iPad & should not need to be changed to accommodate USB3, it looks to me to be a good move. Change now, give an adapter for the old devices & do not need to change for another decade.
  Do you really believe that the current Micro-USB connector has much longer to live given that it cannot do USB3? Have you seen the abomination that is micro-USB3 with a dual socket structure wider than a USB type A? Have you never had problems with micro-USB being hard to insert the right way? Hell, I've seen a number of normal sockets where the shelf holding the contacts was snapped off & micro-USB damaged by people inserting them the wrong way. USB is not a great connector & within a few years most phones will have moved on to something else anyway.The only thing I have ever seen a micro-USB on is phones. The apple dock connector however has become common on clock radios, speakers & a plethora of docks. As micro-USB does not have enough pins for some dock functions, is not reversible, cannot furnish the wattage necessary to quick charge an iPad & should not need to be changed to accommodate USB3, it looks to me to be a good move. Change now, give an adapter for the old devices & do not need to change for another decade.
  Do you really believe that the current Micro-USB connector has much longer to live given that it cannot do USB3? Have you seen the abomination that is micro-USB3 with a dual socket structure wider than a USB type A? Have you never had problems with micro-USB being hard to insert the right way? Hell, I've seen a number of normal sockets where the shelf holding the contacts was snapped off & micro-USB damaged by people inserting them the wrong way. USB is not a great connector & within a few years most phones will have moved on to something else anyway.
  
  --
  Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
8. Re:Most things still work by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 09:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  No, it doesn't.
  You're right, because it ALSO results in a connector you can insert without having to look to see if it's in the right way, vastly superior for real people.
  You honestly believe that inventing an entirely new connector takes less work that taking an existing standard form factor and adding pins to suit your needs?
  Obviously not since my point is that people who believe Apple invented the new connector just to screw people, do not realize the amount of work that goes into building a whole new connector vs. simply overlaying functionality on top of an existing connector.
  Apple would not go to extra work just to screw people over, as much as Apple haters would love us all to believe the opposite. Apple is doing what they have always done, taking people off an obsolete system (old iPhone cable, Micro-USB) before people have quite realized the old system is obsolete - as was the case for floppy drives or internal CD-ROM drives.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
9. Re:Most things still work by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 09:20 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Mini-USB is a set of standards.
  Being a set with more than one element means there's always room for one more.
  I actually meant micro-usb 5 pin. That as far as I can tell all android phones use.
  What about people that do not have any Android phones? It's just as weird for them to have to get the five-pin as it is for an Apple user to have to get an Apple cable. I didn't have ANY micro-usb five pin cables until my camera came with one; it went missing and I had to get another even though I had a slew of OTHER micro-usb cables from connecting hard drives and the like to my computer. I have a box downstairs with a huge number of orphan computer cables and for me the five-pin was the least common USB cable I had.
  Nothing about the Apple cable is any more annoying than the horrible USB situation for normal non-technical consumers. At least with the Apple cable you can tell which one is for the phone at a glance.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
10. Re:Most things still work by MagusSlurpy · 2012-09-21 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  Micro-USB 5 pin also works on my old Sanyo dumbphone, my Nook, my wireless headset, and my Nikon point & shoot. One plug for four devices (since the dumbphone got retired when I finally got an Android phone about six months ago. The only other things I plug in to charge are my laptop and my 3DS.
  
  --
  My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
11. Re:Most things still work by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  Because not everyone will use it. Everyone however does use mini-usb on something, and mini-usb phones sell far more total units. Apple should at least support that without an adaptor.
  Why? Is this a chicken and Apple-doesn't-support-it problem? Where if Apple doesn't support it, nobody actually does? Like NFC?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
12. Re:Most things still work by plover · 2012-09-22 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  This is simply not true. Only one end of the chargers Apple uses is USB.
  It is true because ANY USB charger will work with that Apple cable to charge an iPhone 5.
  No, it is absolutely not true because none of my iPhones or iDevices have ever been able to recharge from "dumb" USB chargers. I've had USB cigarette lighter power jacks for years in my vehicles. They used to work fine to charge various Nokia, Sony Ericsson, and Motorola phones. The Moto phones were especially convenient to charge anywhere because they had mini-USB ports on the phone ends, so the ubiquitous mini-USB cables were a perfect fit. But once I got an iPhone, the dumb chargers were no longer good enough for it. My choices were to either trot over to the Apple store and buy expensive new incompatible crap with 30 pin connectors, or poorly made junk from some third party.
  Look at the use cases for the new dock connector that you're defending. 75% or more of the connections anyone makes to an iPhone are solely for charging purposes. USB works fine for that (or at least it would if Apple would remove the circuitry that limits its ability to charge from a dumb power source.) Over the remaining uses, most connections are to host computers for syncing and charging. That's 100% USB today, even to a Mac. There are a few connections to docking media players and car stereos, so a docking station makes sense, right? Actually, no. They transfer the music data and control information over USB. Watching video on your Apple TV? Finally, something that isn't USB - except for the part where it's wireless. No dock connector needed at all. So what use case exists where anyone actually needs a proprietary dock connector? Making money.
  This is not a "nickel and dime" recurring bleed, this is a one time charge to adapt to a connector that is is better and simpler - than either the older iPhone connector OR Micro-USB.
  I'd like to point out for the counting-impaired that this is now a second one-time charge, or as everyone else calls the practice "nickel and diming". At some point you have to look beyond the supposed "oh this might make a potential future technology perfect in every way" and look at the reality - Apple makes their customers bleed so often that their fans are cutters.
  I realize nobody will convince you that the new proprietary connector is horseshit, because you don't want to hear that Apple is enjoying screwing you. Fine, close your ears, but don't expect the rest of us to believe that shit.
  
  --
  John
13. Re:Most things still work by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-23 22:38 · Score: 0
  
  You're confusing micro USB and the older mini-USB. The latter isn't really a good standard, as it puts the wear-prone springy contacts into the device instead of the cable.
EU connector mandate by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-09-21 05:10 · Score: 0

I thought the EU mandated all new phones to have the same USB connector to end the huge e-waste of discarded chargers with proprietary connectors.

Wait, let me guess: Apple got some sort of bullshit waiver for being totally cool and tubular.
1. Re:EU connector mandate by WilliamBaughman · 2012-09-21 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  The iPhone5 ships with an adapter in the EU: iPhone 5 Scorns Standards Promise To European Commission.
2. Re:EU connector mandate by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  The Apple cares not for your problems dirt-dweller!
  Sweat and toil for The Apple
3. Re:EU connector mandate by drinkypoo · 2012-09-21 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  The iPhone5 ships with an adapter in the EU:
  Not according to what I've read; the adapter is not included, and costs thirty pounds. The law does not require that the adapter be included; it only requires that you make one available. In other words, you can charge for it. And apparently, you can charge as much as many people pay for their whole fucking phone, with contract anyway.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
4. Re:EU connector mandate by EmagGeek · 2012-09-21 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  "Wait, let me guess: Apple got some sort of bullshit waiver for being totally cool and tubular."
  The iPhone is not a phone. It's not a phone at all.
  It's 100% COMPLETE FUCKING AMAZEBALLS! That's what it is. So, naturally it does not fall under the phone requirement.
5. Re:EU connector mandate by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 15:57 · Score: 0
  
  And apparently, you can charge as much as many people pay for their whole fucking phone, with contract anyway.
  The idiocy of this sentence approaches perfection. Bravo, sir, bravo. You should retire from slashdot now -- you've been posting stupid things for years and years but you will never top this.
6. Re:EU connector mandate by drinkypoo · 2012-09-22 00:58 · Score: 1
  
  The idiocy of this sentence approaches perfection. Bravo, sir, bravo. You should retire from slashdot now -- you've been posting stupid things for years and years but you will never top this.
  There's always tomorrow.
  The irony of an AC saying this to me is amusing.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I knew it by kilodelta · 2012-09-21 05:13 · Score: 1

5.4Wh - at 3.9oz. My Android phone with extended 9.7Wh battery weighs 6.5oz. Sorry, I'll take the additional battery lifetime for the weight.
1. Re:I knew it by Balial · 2012-09-21 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  ... then you could buy a 2.6oz battery case?
2. Re:I knew it by kilodelta · 2012-09-21 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah - I watched the tear down of the iPhone 5 - interesting enough but the battery is still way underpowered for a smart phone. I think it gives 5.4Wh, whereas the extended battery pack in my Samsung SCH-R910 Android gives me 9.7Wh. I'll take the ability to easily swap out a battery pack over one sealed into a unit thank you.
3. Re:I knew it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 05:43 · Score: 0
  
  Or more like the large battery is compensating for something...
4. Re:I knew it by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  More important than the battery size is battery life. The iPhone 5 seems to get better life than the Indulge, even though the Indulge has a much larger battery.
  Maybe for you, the ability to swap out batteries is an important feature. I think that Apple's sales prove that it isn't a big factor for their customers. I wonder if there's any data on how many people tote around extra batteries for their phones?
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
Fractured glass + vacuum by sayno2quat · 2012-09-21 05:15 · Score: 2

So you need to remove fractured glass with a suction cup? Let me know how that works out for you...

--
Sure I sold you robot insurance. But you were attacked by a cyborg. Not covered.
1. Re:Fractured glass + vacuum by blueg3 · 2012-09-21 05:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No, you only need to remove it with a suction cup if you want the thing to stay in one piece. Not a problem if it's already broken.
2. Re:Fractured glass + vacuum by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 07:17 · Score: 0
  
  Just put some tape over the glass for the suction cup to stick to.
  Not a big deal.
Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-21 05:28 · Score: 5, Informative

The gist of that article is "Lightning is better because it has 8 pins! 8 is more than 5!"
And 11 is louder than 10...
It's nonsense. You can put audio and video over micro-USB (see: MHL), and the standard specifically allows for sending more power over the cable when a device is using its own charger, so the argument "You couldn't charge the iPad!" is BS. The Nexus 7, Kindle, Galaxy Tab, Transformer, etc. all charge fine over micro-USB based chargers.

--
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
1. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Bill_the_Engineer · 2012-09-21 05:40 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The Lightning connector is much easier to insert into the phone versus the micro-USB. Eyesight isn't improving for some of us here.
  Then again it's just a connector, get over it and move on.
  
  --
  These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
2. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by 0100010001010011 · 2012-09-21 07:04 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I believe it can also be inserted either way. Micro USB is a horrible design. (And USB as a whole). Someone completely failed Poka Yoke design when designing it. Micro-USB is just slightly different when flipped upside down. Sometimes with MicroUSB I can't tell if the connection is just snug or if it's being inserted backwards. I often have to double check visually. Something my parents wouldn't be able to do because of their eye sight.
3. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Wraithlyn · 2012-09-21 08:52 · Score: 2
  
  Ironically, the page you linked explicitly gives this example: 'Most computer manufacturers “Poka-Yoke” their cables so the plugs only fit in one way. This prevents damage to the system.'
  I suppose a plug that works fine either way is even MORE "Poka-Yoke" tho. :)
  
  --
  "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
4. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by sdguero · 2012-09-21 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  Wtf are you talking about??? I have several micro-USB devices and bad eyesight. I've never been able to insert one upside down or break one.
  
  Apple is being a dick because they are using a proprietary connector. Period. If they really wanted to use something different than micro-usb and get my approval, they should just standardize the fucking plug so accessory manufacturers don't have to pay a license fee and more than just idevices can use it!
  
  Shit like this holds us back. Just like the silly patent wars. Apple is using a stellar legal department and small steps of innovation to put profit before anything else. Am I the only one that finds it totally fucking stifling to force users into proprietary everything? Jesus dude, I'm all worked up now...
5. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by 0100010001010011 · 2012-09-21 10:25 · Score: 1
  
  Yep guys. Made everything up. This guy and his anecdotes about not bing able to do it caught me.
6. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by MagusSlurpy · 2012-09-21 11:23 · Score: 1
  
  So you can read letters on your phone that are 4mm tall, but can't see a connecter that's 7mm tall?
  
  --
  My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
7. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by maccodemonkey · 2012-09-21 12:05 · Score: 2
  
  It's nonsense. You can put audio and video over micro-USB (see: MHL)
  Sure, you could add MHL which would result in more space being used on the board, higher device cost, and higher accessory cost, or you could come up with something that does the same functionality at a cheaper cost in a more efficient manner. After all, the higher cost is why the Nexus 7 doesn't ship with MHL.
  But hey, let's stick with something that's broken, expensive, and not really part of the USB standard anyway. That sounds like a good plan.
8. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 00:01 · Score: 1
  
  And we go again: why does nobody use USB to hook up peripherals to their phone? Not justApple, nobody. No, using a non-standard USB connector doesn't count, and if it did, that would make it almost nobody for a handful of peripherals.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
9. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by AmiMoJo · 2012-09-22 01:57 · Score: 1
  
  You physically can't insert a micro USB plug upside down, unless you apply so much force that you actually break the metal port. The point at which you have to exert all your strength to push a connector in is the point at which you should realize it is the wrong way around.
  If it is that hard just put a little red dot on the top side of the connector to remind you.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
10. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-22 02:05 · Score: 1
  
  The gist of that article is "Lightning is better because it has 8 pins! 8 is more than 5!"
  And 11 is louder than 10...
  It's nonsense. You can put audio and video over micro-USB (see: MHL), and the standard specifically allows for sending more power over the cable when a device is using its own charger, so the argument "You couldn't charge the iPad!" is BS. The Nexus 7, Kindle, Galaxy Tab, Transformer, etc. all charge fine over micro-USB based chargers.
  Yeah, they just charge slower. And that's when using USB-charging, not USB-data like the iPad can. Not to mention they actually have a smaller battery.
  Anyway, if Apple used micro-USB today, they'd have to switch soon to yet another plug. Ever heard of USB3? New micro-plug. Which is of course again much bigger than micro-USB.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
11. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-22 08:47 · Score: 0
  
  The biggest issue with micro-USB (that is well known, but barely reported) and iPhone is the maximum safe wattage. The iPhone 5 (and iPad) needs 10W for fast charging. 10W is beyond the spec of micro-USB and would cause lots of unwanted electrical fires. Apple, of course, wants a proprietary connector anyway, but it really turns out to be the case that micro-USB simply won't charge the new iOS device fast enough.
12. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Bill_the_Engineer · 2012-09-24 00:33 · Score: 1
  
  There's letters on my phone?
  
  --
  These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
13. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-24 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, they just charge slower.
  
  No they don't. The Nexus 7's charger is the same amperage/voltage as the iPad charger, last I checked. 5V, 2.1Amp or something like that. Same "10W" charging specs, but over a standard micro-USB cable.
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
14. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-24 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  USB-OTG is a standard.
  I can hook up a USB gamepad to my Nexus 7 or Samsung Galaxy S3 with it.
  Er?
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
15. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-25 03:22 · Score: 1
  
  USB-OTG is a standard.
  I can hook up a USB gamepad to my Nexus 7 or Samsung Galaxy S3 with it.
  Er?
  Sorry that I didn't mention the obvious: things like mice, keyboards and storage don't count - because that could already trivially be done with USB1 - which already leaves printers that aren't used with phones over USB.
  Of course I was talking of peripherals that gets used with the Dock Connector - because that's what we were talking about.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
16. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-25 03:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, they just charge slower.
  No they don't. The Nexus 7's charger is the same amperage/voltage as the iPad charger, last I checked. 5V, 2.1Amp or something like that. Same "10W" charging specs, but over a standard micro-USB cable.
  But not when also transferring data - which you conveniently left out of the quote. Because standard USB can't do that, but the dock connector can.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
17. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-25 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, the Android Open Accessory protocol? That makes use of standard USB interfaces to connect to external hardware like sensors, speakers, clocks, exercise machines, etc.?
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
18. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-25 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  But not when also transferring data - which you conveniently left out of the quote. Because standard USB can't do that, but the dock connector can.
  Supporting a standard USB plug does not rule out a separate dock connector, which you can see with the Nexus 7.
  Or, like for my Galaxy S3, you can have a dock that the charger also plugs into, which provides data and power over the same USB connection... Just like the iPad dock does.
  Again, none of the capabilities you are listing are impossible (or even difficult) with a standard USB cable. The only benefit of the proprietary cable is to Apple's bottom line.
  And back to your earlier comment, USB3 ports are backwards compatible with USB2 cables. So, no, Apple would not "just have to move to another connector anyway" if they went with micro-USB.
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
19. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-25 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  But not when also transferring data - which you conveniently left out of the quote. Because standard USB can't do that, but the dock connector can.
  Supporting a standard USB plug does not rule out a separate dock connector, which you can see with the Nexus 7.
  Where the fuck did that goalpost go?
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
20. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-25 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, the Android Open Accessory protocol? That makes use of standard USB interfaces to connect to external hardware like sensors, speakers, clocks, exercise machines, etc.?
  Great news! So which ready to use peripherals can one buy that uses that? Oh, right. None.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
21. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-26 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  So which ready to use peripherals can one buy that uses that?
  Well, here's an obvious example: An Alarm Clock.
  Harman also has some in-car integration that uses it, apparently.
  There's also a whole mess of sensors and arduino boards you can buy, if you're into that thing.
  Not a large amount on the market yet, to be fair, but it's still important to note there are manufacturers out there actually using standard USB connections.
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
22. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-26 05:07 · Score: 1
  
  Where the fuck did that goalpost go?
  On the next line?
  
  Or, like for my Galaxy S3, you can have a dock that the charger also plugs into, which provides data and power over the same USB connection
  
  Forgive me for being honest and upfront about the fact the Nexus 7 does in fact offer a separate dock connector, since I was using it as one of my primary examples earlier. You just seemed so fixated on docks...
  Anyway, the Nexus 7 can still charge and use data over the same USB connection. The Gear4 AlarmDock does that, for instance. It'll charge while providing audio over USB.
  So, about those goal posts?
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
23. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-26 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  Where the fuck did that goalpost go?
  On the next line?
  
  Or, like for my Galaxy S3, you can have a dock that the charger also plugs into, which provides data and power over the same USB connection
  Forgive me for being honest and upfront about the fact the Nexus 7 does in fact offer a separate dock connector, since I was using it as one of my primary examples earlier. You just seemed so fixated on docks...
  Anyway, the Nexus 7 can still charge and use data over the same USB connection. The Gear4 AlarmDock does that, for instance. It'll charge while providing audio over USB.
  So, about those goal posts?
  So to sum up: Apple is evil for not using standard USB, while Samsung proves they could have by using non-standard USB. You ran right into that goalpost, without the ball.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
24. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-26 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  So which ready to use peripherals can one buy that uses that?
  Well, here's an obvious example: An Alarm Clock.
  Yeah, and it must be free, because they can't even tell me a price. Or they don't fucking have any to sell.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
25. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-26 16:29 · Score: 1
  
  Are you being purposely dense?
  What part of what Samsung did is non-standard USB?
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
26. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-27 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Are you being purposely dense?
  What part of what Samsung did is non-standard USB?
  The part that isn't in the USB standard - like using wires in the USB cable that have nothing to do with USB.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
27. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-27 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  So you're being purposely dense and making crap up, too?
  Can you at least reference what you're talking about? What wires in my USB cable "have nothing to do with USB"?
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
28. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-27 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  So you're being purposely dense and making crap up, too?
  Can you at least reference what you're talking about? What wires in my USB cable "have nothing to do with USB"?
  I won't waste my time searching for stuff you won't read anyway.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
29. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-27 12:51 · Score: 1
  
  In other words, you're full of crap, and you know I'm right.
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
30. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Plumpaquatsch · 2012-09-27 16:23 · Score: 1
  
  In other words, you're full of crap, and you know I'm right.
  Yes, you are full of crap, and I am right. It*'s called MHL.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
31. Re:Flavors of Spinal Tap by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-28 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Okay, I'm not sure how you went from "You can't charge as well over USB!" to talking about connecting video to a mobile device... But I'll bite.
  I guess you're referring to the fact that the Galaxy S3 was the first device with the 11-pin MHL connector, to allow using HDMI and USB at the same time? I guess that's a fair criticism, that it's not backwards compatible with older MHL adapters.
  But I think it also reinforces my point: It's being done with a standard micro-USB port, that still allows charging and data access via any standard micro-USB cable, meaning (as I originally said), Apple's Lightning connector doesn't allow them to do anything they couldn't do with a micro-USB connector. The only unique capability Lightning provides is another way for Apple to get money out of you.
  
  --
  Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
  Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
Interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 05:48 · Score: -1

Is it just me who clicked on the video to check out the girl?
oh, ffs... by Tastecicles · 2012-09-21 05:57 · Score: 1

...wasn't one of the bugbears I've been reading about elsewhere, the proprietary connectors Apple seems to love using? This is why I won't buy Apple: until they use a standard connector, I won't go fucking near one.

--
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
1. Re:oh, ffs... by Cinder6 · 2012-09-21 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sorry, there's way more rage over the cable than makes sense.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
2. Re:oh, ffs... by Tastecicles · 2012-09-21 17:05 · Score: 1
  
  My mp3 player, all my external hard drives, my phone and even my camera use the SAME ONE CONNECTOR. I have ONE CABLE that does it ALL.
  WHY do Apple have such trouble sourcing sockets that seem to grow like fucking WEEDS all over China!?
  
  --
  Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Mandatory Tom Baker by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-21 07:19 · Score: -1

Repairability? What? No its not repairability, have a look in your dictionary - its reparability. I can say repairability if you want but the word is reparability. What do you want me to say - repairability or reparability? I'm thorough, I look things up in the dictionary before I come here...but my view is the man on the building side wouldn't pick it up.
Still a tiny speaker... by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 07:26 · Score: 1

It may be improved but in the end the built in speakers will simply not be as good as even the cheaper headphones. If for no other reason than speakers on a phone will always be too close together to get any kind of stereo separation.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Still a tiny speaker... by quacking+duck · 2012-09-22 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  Doesn't matter how good the speaker is--it's still shooting sound out the side, so lots of times I try to show a video to a friend and they're left holding the speaker to their ear.
  The workaround is to cup the speaker side with your hand and deflect the sound toward you, but then it really doesn't matter how good the speaker is if it's at least decent.
2. Re:Still a tiny speaker... by immaterial · 2012-09-22 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  What device are you using? I've heard the iPad 1 and 2 weren't particularly loud (never had one myself) but my iPad 3 and every one of my iPhones has been far more capable than you describe. I've never had an issue listening to video (watching Hulu on my iPad in bed when I should be asleep, heh). Hell, the kids often watch YouTube on my phone in the car (noisy environment) and sometimes I have to tell them to turn it down! Just last night a friend and I were listening to This American Life on my phone while we worked on different things at different corners of my living room and it was plenty loud for both of us to hear it clearly.
  
  If what you describe were normal, the phone's speakerphone function would be completely useless! Seriously, get your phone looked at if it's still under warranty.
3. Re:Still a tiny speaker... by quacking+duck · 2012-09-23 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  I forgot an important qualifier. The speakers perfectly fine in a quiet room, but hard to hear when watching video out in public, even in a low/moderate noise environment; or in a large open space without nearby walls to bounce the sound back. It's not the volume, because people have no problems hearing it after I tell them to cup the speaker to them, or of course holding it so the phone speaker is pointed right at them. It's 100% an issue with the sound shooting out the side instead of the front.
Reason no Micro USB by Fool106 · 2012-09-21 07:58 · Score: 1

Pretty good take on the whole cable thing. http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/13/boom-2/ From the article: People keep asking why Apple didn’t opt for the micro-USB connector. The answer is simple: that connector isn’t smart enough. It has only 5 pins: +5V, Ground, 2 digital data pins, and a sense pin, so most of the dock connector functions wouldn’t work – only charging and syncing would. Also, the pins are so small that no current plug/connector manufacturer allows the 2A needed for iPad charging. Note that this refers to individual pins; I’ve been told that several devices manage to get around this by some trick or other, but I couldn’t find any standard for doing so.
Cable count? Fine, lets talk cable count by SuperKendall · 2012-09-21 08:28 · Score: 1

Of course, I have even more USB micro-B cables.
So do I. And the other kinds of micro-USB cables, something like five or six possible ends... I have a micro-USB cable for my hard drive, a slightly different tiny micro-USB connector for my camera. And if I want to plug in a hard drive dock why THAT's a whole other kind of USB connector. I have a travel USB adaptor with several different ends to attach.
So how is that any better? The Apple cable as far as I'm concerned is just one of the several cables I'll need to attach and/or charge a device over USB anyway. The world of USB is not the world of a single cable, it never has been.
If USB had ever really had a connector standard I might agree with you, although universally all of the micro-USB connectors are terrible in quality and are practically designed to degrade. But there is no REAL micro-USB standard, the cables are confusing an I'm happy to have at least one USB cable I can actually tell at a glance is for sure one of the ones I need to pack on a trip.
Do you know how many iPhone 5 cables I have? Absolutely none!
And people owning an iPhone 5 have one, as many as they need. You obviously do not need one.
And if the iPhone 5 owners get the Micro-USB adaptor they can just carry that with them and use all the same cables you use.
And, no, they don't need a "special dock cable" to do video out or whatever Apple's bullshit reason is for that.
And USB 3.0 connections as is rumored to happen with the new dock connector? Oh that's right, you are screwed because you picked devices that standardized on an ancient IO standard with the worst connector design ever devised by man.
The new connector has a wide range of possible I/O interfaces, video is only a tiny example. Apple has a connector designed for future I/O needs, not one struggling just to keep up because it was designed many years before modern devices. In the end remember this; you are using a connector based on a GOVERNMENT choice to standardize on, rather than a connector designed by the industry to be future proof.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Who repairs the most iPhones? by clonehappy · 2012-09-21 09:09 · Score: 2

While this is most definitely great news for the DIY crowd and the independent repair shops, I don't think it was necessarily done to make things easier on us. Not trash-talking Apple at all for this move, but this is going to save them a metric shitton of money in the long run.
Apple replaces/repairs so many devices with cracked screens that bringing the repair time down from 45 minutes to practically nothing will make the profit margins on their warranties and AppleCare coverage skyrocket. And makes those of us who do these things for fun and profit very happy. Smart business move from all standpoints.
You are utterly wrong on USB chargers and iPhone by SuperKendall · 2012-09-22 18:58 · Score: 1

But once I got an iPhone, the dumb chargers were no longer good enough for it.
I have several cheap USB cigarette lighter chargers. Some I got as giveaways at conventions. EVERY SINGLE ONE has been able to charge every iPhone I've ever had.
Can you give us the model of any USB charger that cannot charge an iPhone? It's absurd because a USB charger HAS to provide the minimum specced power to whatever is plugged in and that is enough for an iPhone.
You may have had bad cables or something, but the chargers should have worked for the iPhone. I have never ever plugged an iPhone into a working USB port and not had it charge.
Again iPads are different, but we are talking iPhones.
75% or more of the connections anyone makes to an iPhone are solely for charging purposes. USB works fine for that (or at least it would if Apple would remove the circuitry that limits its ability to charge from a dumb power source.
And again, there has NEVER been such a limitation.
So what use case exists where anyone actually needs a proprietary dock connector? Making money.
Cars as mentioned. MINI for example uses the connection to have the phone talk to the car and present a custom display for its won apps and apps like Pandora.
Standalone radios (because real people don't listen to music over Bluetooth unless they have a gun to their head).
Custom gaming controllers (although a lot of those have been bluetooth).
Coming soon: 3D headsets.
Basically anything that would like to use the iPhone as a display and interact more directly with it.
The fact that YOU cannot imagine a use for a high-speed IO off a mobile device does not mean there are not a ton of good uses for it, as you will see over the coming years with more accessories...
I realize nobody will convince you that the new proprietary connector is horseshit, because you don't want to hear that Apple is enjoying screwing you.
That's odd, I was just thinking how strange it is that a Slashdot reader was unable to understand technical benefits of faster IO. It's almost like you enjoy the little box of ignorance you choose to live in under the bridge of modern living with advances whooshing by above you.
Enjoy your USB buggy grandpa!
I'll let you have the last response because you really have nothing more to say I can imagine wanting to read.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Nexus 7 Charger is 10W (5V, 2Amp) by Chibi+Merrow · 2012-09-24 08:25 · Score: 1

Like I said, in my original post, the micro-USB spec allows for more power to be pushed over the wire when the device is paired with its own charger...

--
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them