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Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs
TechCrunch reports that Apple, facing a substantial backlash (and some snarky competitive advertising) over goofs in the mapping software included in iOS 6, is going after the problem with a hiring spree. Here's TechCrunch's lead:
"Apple is going after people with experience working on Google Maps to develop its own product, according to a source with connections on both teams. Using recruiters, Apple is pursuing a strategy of luring away Google Maps employees who helped develop the search giant’s product on contract, and many of those individuals seem eager to accept due in part to the opportunity Apple represents to build new product, instead of just doing 'tedious updates' on a largely complete platform."
Meanwhile, writes reader EGSonikku "Well known iOS hacker Ryan Perrich has gotten the iOS5 Google Maps application to run on iOS6 using 'a little trickery.' (YouTube demonstration.) He has not released it yet due to crashing issues but states 'it mostly works.'"
what would apple do if samsung did this to them? what would the courts reactions be?
That's innovative ...
I don't really see how this is a news story. I mean it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.
It's not like they don't need help...
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Unfair. Those litigious monsters at Apple are hiring guys away from Google. Google should sue them to protect their vital IP.
Also unfair: companies mutually agreeing not to poach each others' employees. And we don't believe in imaginary property.
Take a look at one of those rare instances where the employees win. In an arms race, the only winners are arms dealers. Those with the expertise are dealing. Let the poaching and pre-emptive salary and benefit increases begin.
Wait, didn't Google do something similar and than Apple and Steve Jobs got their panties in a bunch over it? Or was that Microsoft that did that? Either way, nice hypocritical move, Apple.
Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs
What did they do, prop him up and pull a string wrapped around his wrist to beckon them over?
Sorry. I need sleep. Or help.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
The referenced article mentions:
The position sounds like a product development manager position, and will pay him $85k+ and all the moving expenses from the East Coast. He’s gone through 2 rounds of interview and seems like a frontrunner to land that position.
Is $85K a lot of money for a product development manager? I know some IT Helpdesk staff that make nearly that much in Silicon Valley.
Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application. Considering how deep Apple's pockets are, I'm really surprised they weren't able to license a better / larger set of GIS data. There are number of competing mapping companies out there, so I have a hard time believing that, given enough money, one of them wouldn't have provided Apple with what they needed.
Now as for the actual application, I believe Apple's map application is superior to Google's in a number of ways. I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).
So as for Google maps, why hasn't Google released a stand alone app yet? After all, that's all Google Maps are with Android is an app on the marketplace. Is Apple blocking Google, or is Google (perhaps wisely) letting Apple go it alone for a bit so people will miss the functionality Google provided, then they can step in and save the day (before Apple has a chance to improve their product enough)?
Better known as 318230.
Mon, Sept 23 2013 Headline News: Apple Sues Google for copying their iMaps program. The Steve Jobs clone goes on the record: "Obviously the Google hired the same developers as Apple to create their map software. This is theft and will will destroy them." When the question was raised who the developers worked for first, Jobs stated "Apple does not adhere to linear timelines."
I'm not an Apple fanboi but the rap Apple is getting about that maps app (and the data behind it) is just unreasonable. I'm totally happy with another big company trying to gear up here. Having only Google as a supplier of that would be just sad. What's wrong with competition? Let Apple try and top Google or at least get far enough to be as usable as Google maps is. And really, it's not as if Google had no screw-ups ever. Google for it (lol).
Sometimes I look at comments everywhere and it seems as if people would be totally happy to see nothing but Google and Android everywhere. Be careful what you wish for! Competition is good. Luring away employees is good. I love to be lured away from the job I'm doing. Give me a better job and a harder task to solve and I'm happy.
I'm sure that Apple going for a solution of its own will make even Google better. There's nothing good about the complacency of being a monopoly. Really. Grow some brain, guys.
That's right, you can jump in a casket with Steve Jobs' corpse for seven minnutes of heaven.
Finally, Apple and Google are now poaching each other's employees/contractors. Remember this story.
Perhaps now, this will force Google to offer permanent positions and better salaries to some of its better contract programmers. Also now that Apple is going after Google's employees, Apple can't really complain if Google makes a targeted effort to hire away some of Apple's top designers.
They should do like Google. Name everything permanent beta. Get-out-of-jail-free-card for every fail.
About the alleged hiring/luring: It's not like this doesn't happen all the time. Companies are constantly luring away employees from other companies. But of course, in the light of the Apple maps broohaha I guess this is unexpected and kinda newsworthy.
Did you hear me? TWENTY PERCENT LIGHTER. We had to dig really deep this time to have such a major improvement in weight. We stripped out the irrelevant detail from the shitty Google maps application. Infact, we should have thought of this earlier. Google really does increase the weight of the phone with all that searching, mapping, navigation...
Trust in Apple!
suggests it's one of the worst companies to work for this side of Cannon (famous for installing sensors to track how fast employees go to the bathroom). From what I understand it was the weird cult of personality around Jobs that let them do that. With Steve gone, are they gonna be able to pull that off?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
At least with Google employees, Apple won't need to email them a pdf map of their office location.
Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.
I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?
Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?
How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?
I thought Apple never did wrong because every pundit was detailing its so called, "attention to detail...". So what happened?
One did not need elementary school education to realise that its maps iteration was not just crazy, but it was just bizzare, showed incompetence and was taken as a reckless joke by many of us.
So again, what hapened to, "It just works?"
The app itself is not the problem, in fact, the Apple Maps app seems to be faster than the Google one. The problem is the source data and no amount of software engineers hired is going to be able to solve this.
But the YouTube app was removed from my iPad with iOS 6. [rimshot]
Meanwhile Google is furiously patenting everything about Google Maps that they possibly can.
Go to maps.google.com in the Safari browser.
At this point it's not Apple's choice to be able to use the old map app - the license with Google is expiring so Apple cannot keep providing that app.
There's no reason to think Apple would block a Google written map app considering there are scores of other map applications in the App Store - including the Bing app (which includes Bing maps).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I hope Google have lots of patents on their mapping
For goodness sake Apple, are there no limits to how low you will stoop?
Well if that link is going to be every Apple story so is this one:
What mapping company is perfect?
Detailing some nice fails on Google's part in mapping.
Apple is somewhat behind, no question - but Google was never perfect. Mapping is hard, you have to put maps out there and let people correct them.
Also another thing that seems really stupid to complain about is flat satellite data warped in 3D mode. You are getting something you could not see before on mobile devices, a cool terrain deformation that actually lets you see hills (useful when planning biking routes) and you just bitch about the projection onto that surface? Talk about #1stworldproblems! terrain deformation seems to register highly in these Apple Map "fails" even though to real users, it is a win.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The quality of the satellite images are atrocious
Only in some areas. In others they have higher resolution satellite images.
there's no street view equivalent
That's what 3D flyover mode is for. I prefer it to Steetview as you can see more of the area at once, the current problem is limited availability of cities that have 3D data (I have not seen an exact list anywhere yet) .
If this was any other company it would be considered an alpha release.
Having used it for a month or so I would say beta, not alpha.. it's way beyond alpha. It really doesn't crash, the map rendering works well, and searches for standard stuff mostly work OK day to day.
It's quite usable, really the main issue is sometimes searches do not find what you want when you know it should. That's the angle they need to attack first and strongly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
But Jobs is gone! What's the lure now!!!
Apple produced a whole mapping app from scratch, including data that mostly works well, and has a cleaner view on maps.
Then the Internet Trolls such as yourself decided that 3D deformation of terrain looked "funny" in areas with only 2D data, and decided to make fun of a feature that had not existed in built in mobile mapping applications before Apple shipped it.
When people actually realize Apple maps are usable, as usual the troll fever will subside somewhat.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
From what I understand it was the weird cult of personality around Jobs that let them do that.
Not from talking to anyone I've ever known that worked at Apple.
Apple is paranoid and a bit of a slave driver. BUT currently they are the thought leader in the mobile industry. What other company could you work at where so many projects are used by hundreds of millions of users? Where potentially you might be working on new projects with the same range.
If you care about work being used, Apple is a pretty compelling draw... even moreso than at Google where yes some of the projects have that range of use, but not all of them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Step 1: Get rid of Google Maps on iPhone.
Step 2: Try to do our own maps thing and [bleep] it up.
Step 3: Try to steal Google (or EX-Google) Mappers/ to make maps.
Step 4: Yaaaaay?
You're thinking of Dead Steve. Zombie Steve is still at Microsoft.
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Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.
Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s
My current job said it best: "What we need is not new *people*; we need new *ideas*.
Wouldn't you know it, they are willing to pay for both!
Grandpa: My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star.
Samsung should do an advert now while the iron is hot. Showing hipsters stumbling around banging into buildings and going to the wrong place. "our phones wont leave you lost".
Noncompete or not, this sounds like an organized attempt to steal Google trade secrets could be involved. If they say they want people who worked on Google Maps, given their fiasco, that's pretty well targetted. If they said only that they were looking for mapping experts, and also were looking mainly all over the place, not with special Google experience, that would be different.
People can be enjoined from revealing trade secrets to competitors, noncompete agreements or not.
Apple need not advertise for Google experience; they need only show a pattern of looking to lure Google employees in that area to be subject to injunction, I suspect.
"He has not released it yet due to crashing issues but states 'it mostly works.'"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
At least they work....
Glad I'm not the only one who imagined Steve Jobs' corpse tied to a string and being dragged along the sidewalk in front of Google's headquarters.
"Oh, hey, Look! A Steve Jobs free for the taking!"
Contrating .. ex googlers searching help.. so sad..
What you are wrong about, though, is the claim that Apple Maps is the first with 3D maps. Google Maps has a very similar feature since quite a while.
Yes, I have used Google Earth for a long time.
I said built-in mobile mapping applications. Google earth does not yet ship with any device.
One amusing aspect of Google Earth is that almost any Apple Map terrain deformation "fail" can be found in Google Earth too. One example is the bridge going over Hoover dam, which takes the same dip the Apple Maps bridge does (although Google Earth has a better mapping for the dam itself).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In blackest day, in brightest night,
Google, beware your fears made into light
Let those who try to stop what's right,
Burn like his power... Steve Jobs' might!
"Legitimate criticism = trolling"
Errors where it's not finding something it should are or course legitimate.
But many of the supposed map flaws I have seen are NOT legitimate. At least half of the supposed "errors" on the Apple map fail sites are people not understanding that Apple Maps renders differently, or not understanding a 2D projection onto 3D terrain because they have not seen it.
One big example is Apple maps supposedly not having some data at a location, when in fact the data is there - just at a slightly greater zoom level. When you say Apple Maps is missing a tube stop, and you zoom in a bit and find the tube stop there, well then you were wrong.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes, displaying less information often has that effect.
Of course it does. But it then does not mean the data is not there; you just need to zoom in more.
What Apple is trying to do is more advanced than Google maps, where they just dump everything on a screen that can possibly fit and call it good. Apple is trying to map maps more readable and therefore usable for someone like a person in a car. So they are currently tweaking algorithms to decide just what is important to present in a view in such a way you do not end up cluttering things.
So much of the Apple Map angst seems to boil down to "OMG It's Different Kill The Witch!". Well that and the trolls stoking that fire.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What people are saying is that Apple's replacement for Google Maps is very poor as compared to Google Maps.
That's what is inaccurate.
Many of the 3D terrain deformation issues can also be found in Google Earth. It's just that Google doesn't include 3D yet in a map most people use day to do.
Many of the "missing data" reports on these sites showing Apple Map flaws fail to note the data is there if you zoom in a little more. Apple has a different presentation style that hides more data when viewing maps zoomed out. That is not wrong; it's just different.
Searching issues are the real problem. But in my use I have not found it "very poor" compared to Google maps. Google also sometimes cannot find things that I am pretty sure should be easy to find. Currently that happens more often with Apple maps for people, but I do not think it's at the level of "very poor" since mostly it finds what I search for, and frankly when it DOES find results I find the Yelp reviews way more useful than what Google maps presents on search results.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No, that is Bouncing Steve. He was thinking of Rotten Steve.
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s
They provide access to their API, anyone can freely integrate it into their software, websites, or Android apps and even insert their own maps.
https://developers.google.com/maps/
Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s
They provide access to their API, anyone can freely integrate it into their software, websites, or Android apps and even insert their own maps.
https://developers.google.com/maps/
Misleading, at best.
Google charges you if you go over a certain number of users:
http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2122151/Google-Maps-API-to-Charge-for-High-Volume-Usage
If you want access to map tiles, you simply can't get them, and Google will send their lawyers after you if you reverse engineer.
At least with Apple maps commercial use is free. And Bing will let you license the raw map tiles and provide you with an API to get them.)
(Citation: I've worked on software that implemented Maps from scratch and tried to license from Google. Google also made the news recently when they raised their rates: )
Really? Cite searchenginewatch, a site that basically hates google because google is their competition?
Please cite something that's actually valid. I'd believe Florian Mueller and Steve Jobs when he was alive before I'd believe searchenginewatch.
So after tiring of doing "tedious updates" they jump at the chance for "Hey, you know what you did at Google? Do that again from the beginning for us". Talk about tedious.
this is my sig
Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name.
I'd believe Florian Mueller and Steve Jobs when he was alive before I'd believe searchenginewatch.
Google work for you?
https://developers.google.com/maps/faq#usagelimits
then the masses of apple users wont feel like retards for paying extra to obtain a substandard experiance
You're right. I've been looking for this place called Schadenfreude and I can't seem to find it anywhere. Is it on your Apple map?
Got a heap of Schadenfreude right here.
Delightful. For you see, in the end if Apple can find food and Google cannot, which userbase will survive the coming winter?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
OH wait nvm naaaa might as well then use an android phone...
Steve died.
There is now a power vacuum, just like when he was gone before.
So, no one had the guts to say "This sucks and isn't ready to ship"
I think the chief issues with Maps service is a lack of human oversight. I think a crowdsourced solution like Waze is probably a way to shore up that deficiency rapidly.
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
They also have a pretty long history of favoring open standards (Postscript, HTML5, etc.).
The previous Google maps app relied on a licensing agreement with Google that recently expired. Obviously the app itself could continue to run fine just like the 700,000 other iOS apps (dating back to the dawn of time) which continue to run fine on every subsequent iOS version. The 'trickery' probably involves bypassing whatever system is in place to prevent that app from being installed on iOS6 or using Google's mapping data from an iOS6 device. Really, you'd have to be pretty stupid to assume that the app stopped working because of some fundamental technology problem.
nt
No!
I don't think any one map maker has a magically great data set.
Perhaps not. But Apple has $100 billion in the bank. Actual cash.
With even a fifth of that they could have a fleet of imaging satellites supprted by thousands of mapping cars.
But instead they partnered with TomTom.
Wow, maybe Apple should have just done that. /s
Apple to Customer: "You know that mapping app everybody uses? The one that's practically the most popular iOS app? The one that works so well? You can't use that any more."
Customer: "Why not?"
Apple to Customer: "Fuck you, that's why not. Now get back in line. And by the way, did you know that you prefer the walled garden because it provides a more seamless end-user experience? Now repeat that after me: "I prefer the walled garden because...""
You are welcome on my lawn.
Thats because they know the users will buy it anyway.
The guy that drove innovation at apple died. Now Apple is back on a slow descent to Sculley land.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
You are A. Coward, AICMFP.
Don't you mean "Rotting Steve"?
Yeah, I came to this story a few hours late, and was saddened to think that this thought could be missed by most of the /. readership. Alas, I had nothing to fear.
not really google map enigneer
I'm well aware of the new features of Apple Maps, you don't have to detail them, that's clearly not something i'm objecting to. What they should have done is what they did when they introduced Siri, allow the user to switch back to the other service if they want to.
You can, but going to maps.google.com in Safari. Or using he Bing app which includes maps. Or by using one of many other mapping applications.
In fact the one thing Apple could NOT do is provide the old mapping app because the license is ending, and it's not clear Google WOULD allow them to continue as they are developing their own mapping applications. You cat as though Apple is the only party making choices here.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Test
Except Nokia already has this, and their 3D version reportedly doesn't have anywhere near this range of issues.
All I have to say is think again...
Nokia's take on Hoover Dam
Worse 3D rendering than Apple or Google, and the imagery data is far older (before the bridge was completed!).
It also appears to have fewer cities rendered in 3D, Denver for example seems to have no 3D data.
Now that the Apple Haters have opened this can of worms, prepare to find that solutions you thought were pretty good are in fact every bit as sucky in their own unique ways.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple's ideas for maps sucks, so now they are just going to copy Google. Figures.
Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs
Have they no respect? The man's been dead for quite a while; makes you wonder what kind of people they actually manage to lure with mr Jobs.
What else would they lure them with? Apple TVs?
The Problem In Writing All Words With Capital First Letter Is That This Topic Is Either Just Politics Or Horribly Macabre.
Apple resurrected Steve Jobs to lure ex-Google mappers
Google wanted way too much money and control (like a larger logo on the maps).
Apple didn't want to have to pay the mapping blackmail forever, just waiting for the day when Google decided to stop letting them use Google data.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
More like rotating Steve.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Thing is, Android is for hackers. So you expect that people running Android will a) expect to need to do that kind of shit from time to time and b) have at least the basic notions of how to do it.
I thought Apple's slogan was "It just works"?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs
Poor Steve. They apparently didn't bury him properly but preserved his body as bait to lure in people in crises.
Don't particularly like the falla but this is too macabre even to my miserably low standards.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
The one that works so well?
Did you ever try the old maps app? It didn't work well in a car (need to hit that tiny "next turn" button while driving), if it couldn't find a destination it just picked something that looked similar and didn't give any warning, and it had many of the same fails that iOS6 maps has (map/photo misalignment).
I hated it so much that I paid ~$50 for the Navigon app. Seems like the new app has many of the same problems, so I won't go back yet
Everybody uses broad generalizations.
I'll give you that a 3D map that can let you discern street level details is sufficient for many, but not all, end user scenarios. Don't, however, underestimate the value of the data. Streetview cars are the boots on the ground that ensure that the map data matches reality is some very rough fashion. New roads in particular will be added when they survey an area at the very least. They are also using it to improve address accuracy via reCaptcha. Probably useful for all sorts of editing and corrections, and whatever else they can come up with.
Wi-fi location services depend on those cars as well. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if sticking up the cameras was an afterthought to collecting wi-fi location data that paid off embarrassingly well for maps.
Streetview appears to be an embarrassingly parallel problem once you have the infrastructure in place. The difference between extrapolating 3D maps and Streetview is that the former will require a lot of bodies fixing the extrapolation issues and updating those fixes as the scenery changes and the later requires a lot of bodies collecting more data. So long as Google puts in the effort they will stay ahead, map making is, in the end, a labor intensive task.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Apple Macht Frei. Cupertino Uber Alles.
Never mind that stupid bus icon. I got royally SCREWED because of it a couple of weeks ago.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
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Apple: We'd like to license your maps data.
Google: Okay, pay us some moneys.
Apple: Okay. *releases iPhone 1 with Google Maps*
Google: *releases Android with turn-by-turn Google Maps*
Apple: We want turn-by-turn maps, too.
Google: No turn-by-turn for you! We do no evil! No turn-by-turn for you! We are open! No turn-by-turn for you!
Apple. Oh. Okay. *switches to turn-by-turn TomTom maps*
TomTom maps: *suck royally*
Google: LOL
Slashdot: OMG Apple is evil and anticompetitive and hates its customers!
Apple: ...
When I first read the title, since "Jobs" was capitalized, I thought they were offering a seance with Steve Jobs...
However, I don't believe this would preclude a contract-clause which prevents former employers from divulging proprietary information on the Google mapping application. If they start sharing code which belongs to Google or other such things then it's going to get messy.
How about letting Google test and release a standalone map application before they obsoleted the old one?
Since we know Google is not yet thinking of writing such an app, Apple obviously could not have waited for that to happen. Why would Google be inclined to help Apple out in that way?
Apple got maps as ready as it could be for launch and then launched. Now it's on Apple to take in user feedback and fix map errors with haste.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Really. Have you been to that tumblr site? Some of the map 'renderings' I've seen look more like a bad psychedelic trip.
Have you ever run Google Earth? It has the same renderings. That's what happens when you have 2D images overlaid on terrain deformed 3D surfaces.
Nokia's 3D maps have the same, in some cases worse, errors.
So Apple is equal in 3D mapping, and in cities with 3D data, ahead of Google. Apple is really ahead of Google in terms of getting 3D mapping into daily use, Google Earth is cool and all but not nearly as many people use it as use Google Maps.
The Shinjuku subway station -- one of the main arteries of Tokyo's transit system -- doesn't even show up on Apple Maps
That is incorrect. It does show up on the map. There is a transit icon, that reads "Shinjuku Station" right at the location of Shinjuku station.
searching for it returns no results.
That is correct, and an error to be sure. Far more a problem for the tourist than a Tokyo resident though, all of whom I suspect actually know where Shinjuku station is.
On the other hand Apple maps seem better for users in China. I wonder which is harder to do, correct a search result for "Shinjuku Station" or get more accurate maps across the whole of China?
Apple is not fooling around, they are in this for the long game. Blips like Shinjuku Station are funny, but in the end do not make that much difference after the major search errors are fixed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley