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Appeals Court Caves To TSA Over Nude Body Scanners
OverTheGeicoE writes "The Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) recently filed a petition to force the Department of Homeland Security to start its public comment period on body scanners within 60 days or stop using them entirely. The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia has issued its ruling (PDF), and has refused EPIC's petition. DHS told the court earlier that it expected to have a formal rule proposal on body scanners by the end of February, so the court denied EPIC's motion on the expectation that public comment period would start by late March. TFA and this submission have a pessimistic headline on this ruling, but other sources seem to think the glass is half-full, and that EPIC in effect got what it wanted. Is this a victory or a defeat? Will the rulemaking process start on time, or will a TSA dog eat the proposed rule in late March and force further delay?"
If it means we still have the TSA and their nudie scanners then we all lose, whether we realize it or not.
Impartial: "Appeals Court Rules that..."
Slashdot: "Appeals Court Caves To TSA Over Nude Body Scanners"
I have no dog in this fight, but the idea that some court "caved" to an agency rather than ruling on the merits of the case based on their particular principled and reasoned views (which you or I might not happen to personally like or agree with) sounds like conspiracybabble that should have no place on slashdot.
Is there an updated list of the airports that use the scanners, so we can avoid giving them our business?
What happens when the TSA does not turn in their formal report in February?
The problem is not the specific ruling, but rather the media’s brainwashing of population that body scanners somehow increase the security. Most people do not know that you can opt out of body scanners and the general thinking now became that the scanners are good.
I fly about three times a week and I have never gone through a body scanner. A little known fact is that once more people opt out of body scanners, the security lines grow quickly and the scanners get closed in favor of faster metal detectors. As long as the people are OK with body scanners at the airport, there’s very little that can be done in a court.
There's no such thing as "illegal download"
Not yours, but what about your sister, or mom, or nana? There are some sick bastards in this world and we have already seen what sick bastards with a little power do. Just look at the current TSA outrages against personal dignity.
I haven't flown since this scanner bullshit started, but I think that when I refuse the scanner I'll inform the TSA manager that if your thug gropes my nuts I'm returning the favor with a closed fist. There is a right to defend oneself from sexual assault, and that is what this. I've been frisked by police and GSA Security and they were professional courteous and apologetic. There is no reason for this kind of invasive procedure by untrained thugs (sounds like a back alley colonoscopy).
Captcha = duress, how fitting
I've opted out several times. Never once has the agent patting me down seemed to enjoy the process, and they have all been apologetic, and announce to you what they are going to do before they do it.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Never once has the agent patting me down seemed to enjoy the process...
We'll if you're the average slashdotter I can't see how they would enjoy it.
"Sorry sir, I'm going to have to move your beard aside so I can..."
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Will the rulemaking process start on time, or will a TSA dog eat the proposed rule in late March and force further delay?"
For the answer to this, just ask if there is any penalty to any decision maker at the TSA sufficient to motivate them? If so, it will start on time. If not...
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Flying is a privilege, not a right.
Well, yes, that is true; however, the government (which is making these rules) belongs to us. Do we chose to have intrusive searches using mostly-unproven technology? What our choice in the matter of giving away our privacy in the battle between fear and freedom?
You need to abide by the rules of the road as set forth by the governing bodies, or find another way to travel. It's really that simple.
And, likewise, the TSA needs to "abide by the rules as set forth by the governing bodies, which, as far as I can see requires a period of public comment, something that the TSA has failed to do. So, if somebody is "failing to abide by the rules," it apparently is the TSA
Quit whining and just go through it. Trust me, nobody really wants to ogle your naked outline.
Whether you, anonymous coward, choses to think that somebody else's privacy concerns, or safety concerns, are valid or not is not your business
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The whole thing is a joke.
Where are the airlines which I can *chose* to use who *don't* mess about with security theatre?
If I want to accept the risk, it's my business. Why can't an airline advertise specifically on the basis that it uses more sensible, less intrusive security?
There is no such choice permitted to us, and that means the whole thing is a joke - we are not allowed a choice.
Is there an updated list of the airports that use the scanners, so we can avoid giving them our business?
Here I have the set of airports that do not have the body scanners:
{ }
Opt out if they concern you, just get there 30 min early (just in case, it usually doesn't take that long).
If your goal is really economic pressure that is the way to pressure them, travel normally but do not use the scanners and if enough people do so the use of them is economically impractical. I hope to see them vanish within five years.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In MARCH!!!!
The truth is that there is no right to Fly, You have 3 options, Scanner, Patdown or don't Fly. Drive, take a train, bus or ship, or simply put one foot in front of the other.
As a result, the group is changing their name to Electronic Privacy Information Center, For All Is Lost.
I opt out too.
And, when it was in the news that the TSA were looking for people who act "suspiciously" - like avoiding eye contact - I started going out of my way to make eye contact - I stare them down until THEY turn their heads. I do the same to cops.
I go in with the attitude of "go ahead fuck with me" because you fuckers step one toe out of line, we're on the 5 O'clock news and internet with a headline along the lines of "TSA fucks over yet another innocent traveler with their stupidity".
And I'd like to add the best things that were out there, the explosives detectors, were removed because they were a "maintenance nightmare" according to a TSA agent I asked - GE makes them. They were great: they had a metal and explosives detector in one and it took 30 seconds - no strip search. Because let's face it, the only REAL threat now is just bombs. The metal detector will get the guns and as far as ceramic knives - please, they'll get their heads bashed in before they could do anyting and the reinforced cockpit doors will keep them out.
I guess GE should hire ex-TSA or DHS heads for lobbyists next time.
... to what Dilbert predicted back in 2004
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I suggest reading up on this case a bit...
In November 2010, EPIC sued DHS because the body scanners suck. http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/11/05/158250/epic-files-lawsuit-to-suspend-airport-body-scanner-use
In July 2011, a court found that DHS had improperly deployed the scanners by not providing a period for public comment. The court allowed the scans to continue on the condition that they have a public comment period. http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/07/17/0143233/Court-Approves-TSA-Body-Scans-But-Calls-For-Public-Comment
By July 2012, there had STILL not been a public comment period. http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/07/11/2113239/dhs-still-stonewalling-on-body-scanning-ruling-one-year-later
And here we are, September 2012, and the appeals court says look, I know DHS was told to do public comment and it's been over a year and they still haven't done it, but they promise they're really going to do it this time in March 2013, so we're going to take their word for it even though they ignored the previous court order for a public comment period.
Any characterization other than "cave" fails to describe the situation in historical context.
:(){
Checks and Balances.... LOL
In practice, governors like having power, and will not relenquish power based on theories and principles, no matter how loftly.
The *only* thing they respond to is direct pressure applied by huge numbers of people. That is *it*.
A legal proceeding performed by a small (and non-rich) special interest group, no matter how legally sound, will have no effect at all. Until people protest and buycott in sufficient numbers, the scanners are here to stay.
I wish I could sue my old high school for wasting my time with civics class. It was there I was taught that we had three branches of government, and that part of the job for each branch was to keep an eye on the other two branches in a system of "checks and balances". Clearly this was just a lot of sentimental BS.
Proverbs 21:19
Public opinion gathering? Huh? Here’s a survey:
"Would you jeopardize the lives of our children and the American citizens by asking us to remove Advanced Imaging Technology scanners from the airport?”
[NO! I want to keep people safe] [yes, allow terrorists blow up the planes]
There's no such thing as "illegal download"
The airlines don't get any say in this, though you could try chartering a small plane from a small local airport. It may cost more but you have the choice.
Support the TSA.
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
Oh please. This is a lame argument against these scanners. There are two good arguments against them:
1. They don't work.
2. They are more likely to kill you than a terrorist.
Do you honestly think anyone wants to see your junk on one of these things? Have you seen the images they produce? _Not_ chubby-inducing.
Do you really think those that would enjoy it are going to stand there with raging boner and a smirk on their face the whole time?
Nuff said.
US citizens are pussies.
It doesn't have to work well to be useful and dissuade terrorists.
See also the fraud that is the lie detector.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
When did they start forcing people to undress when going through the scanners?
... that my wife opened contained this message:
"Man who walks sideways through airport security is going to Bangkok."
my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
I know you're being funny, but I'm not a horrible person to look at. I'm one of the "stealth nerds" - you have no idea until I start talking, and if I watch my words you'd still never know.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Yes?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Same here, Also, just start commenting on how good it feels and they tend to do it a little faster. The only one that was a little weird was the waist band search, but nothing too bad.
One arm of government decides in favour of another.
This is not enough to complain on /. about how bad things get at the airport, and more action is required. I would support a good cause and I found a guy who runs TSA Out Of Our Pants blog. Consider donating a coffee cup to him (there's paypal button). I'm not affiliated in any way with the site, but looking at how quickly our freedoms are dissolving, I do want to make sure that people like do not disappear:
http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/
There's no such thing as "illegal download"
...but does this story constitute an EPIC fail?
Fagot TSA.
This is what we gets with a Lesbian running shop and calling shots.
I know you're being funny, but I'm not a horrible person to look at. I'm one of the "stealth nerds" - you have no idea until I start talking, and if I watch my words you'd still never know.
Heh, "stealth nerd," that's funny. Like a closet nerd that pokes his head out once in a while.
Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
Welcome to Soviet russia. DHS = KGB. Show us your papers, slave.