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US House Science Committee Member: Evolution Is a Lie From Hell

Posted by timothy on from the hey-at-least-it's-an-ethos dept.

First time accepted submitter badford writes "Representative Paul Broun (Georgia Republican) said that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are 'lies straight from the pit of hell' meant to convince people that they do not need a savior. It would not be quite as shocking if Broun did not sit on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. What impact could this have on policy? What impact could this have on STEM education not just in Georgia but all over the U.S.?"

61 of 1,113 comments (clear)

  1. we need a litmus test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you are religious, you should be prohibited from serving in public office. Further, you should have a guardian assigned to look after your affairs, since obviously you are very weak intellectually.

    Probably bring about end of war, famine, disease, poverty, and all evil in the world, if we could just keep the religious from having influence.

    1. Re:we need a litmus test by jfengel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Despite loudmouth morons like this, there are plenty of religious people capable of managing their daily lives and even participating usefully in science. We happen to notice the deranged assholes like this one, and we hang our heads in shame that large chunks of the American populace agree with them. But not every religious American is an asshole, and you wouldn't fix the world by getting rid of an awful lot of nice, useful people.

      I sure wouldn't mind it if this person evaporated. This kind of pernicious stupidity makes the world a worse place. But I'm not going to let it make me stupid with the fallacy of hasty generalization. (Heck, for all I know this person is a useful human being when he's not being a useless loudmouth fuck, but I'm willing to generalize at least that far.)

      The US got where it is despite every President, Supreme Court Justice, and Congressman (well, nearly all) being religious, in some degree or another. Being religious doesn't have to make you a useless piece of shit. Even if it does in this guy's case.

    2. Re:we need a litmus test by jamesh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you are religious, you should be prohibited from serving in public office. Further, you should have a guardian assigned to look after your affairs, since obviously you are very weak intellectually.

      Probably bring about end of war, famine, disease, poverty, and all evil in the world, if we could just keep the religious from having influence.

      I know lots of athiests who are religious about their beliefs (or lack of beliefs, depending on how you want to slice it). In fact I get preached to more by athiests than by any other groups, which is kind of annoying as i'm an athiest anyway and object to being told what to believe (or not believe) by anyone.

      I know plenty of Christians who are quite happy to take the creationist view put forward by the bible with a grain of salt (and some who consider it blasphemy to preach creationism when the universe around them was clearly not created that way).

      Maybe just keep insane people out of public office? Or at least those where their insanity and delusion will prevent them from doing the job they were hired for.

    3. Re:we need a litmus test by Hentes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, just look how well it worked for North Korea!

    4. Re:we need a litmus test by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you 100% that there are plenty of faithful yet thoughtful and responsible people.

      But at the same time: among people who are morons, there are few worse than fundamentalist fucking morons.

    5. Re:we need a litmus test by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Despite loudmouth morons like this, there are plenty of religious people capable of managing their daily lives and even participating usefully in science.

      And each and every one of them who doesn't stand up and put these extremist assholes in their place is guilty of collaboration.

      What? America judges muslims the same way.

      I would have a lot more respect for religion and religious people if you would stop allowing these fuckers to abuse your religion. As long as you do, I must assume that you don't think him all that bad. Not bad enough to get your asses up, at least.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    6. Re:we need a litmus test by Tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have strange friends. Imaginary?

      What the atheists I listen to are talking about most often is how other people try to control their life. In my country, for example, the churches are still receiving a few billion bucks every year in tax money. Not directly, of course, but through a vast network of indirect channels.
      Then there's all these bullshit laws they want to force on us. Right now, there's a discussion in Europe about new blasphemy laws. Blasphemy laws! You'd think the middle ages are past.

      In america, religious service is forced again and again on soldiers, school children and other people who are in power-inequality positions.

      The list goes on. God only enters the picture as the bullshit reason these control freaks give for their actions, but we have long ago realized that it's the reason for the dumb. The reason for the smart has always been power.

      You can have as many imaginary friends as you want. But I and others will continue "preaching" to you every time you or someone like you tries to control my actions or restrict my freedoms because of something that you think one of your imaginary friends wants.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    7. Re:we need a litmus test by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US got where it is despite every [...] (well, nearly all) being religious, in some degree or another.

      Because (up until recently) they were making a point of keeping religion separate from state affairs.

      --
      Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
    8. Re:we need a litmus test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The US got where it is despite every President, Supreme Court Justice, and Congressman (well, nearly all) being religious, in some degree or another. Being religious doesn't have to make you a useless piece of shit. Even if it does in this guy's case.

      No, you are wrong. They all pretended to be religious because they are smart and knew that was the only way to power.

      I live in Georgia. When people ask me about religion, I explain that I am a man of deep faith. That is true, but I do not believe there is some all-knowing, imaginary entity guiding everything, everywhere. That's for physics.

      My faith is a little more grounded. When I'm driving a vehicle on the roads and highways, I have tremendous faith in other humans that they won't cross into my lane or cross over that double yellow line and kill me, my wife, my kids. THAT is faith. Sometimes other humans fail me. About 2 months ago, a woman tried to cross 5 lanes of traffic to make a left onto a freeway entrance. The fact that my vehicle was in the way didn't matter to her. I avoided being hit, but spun out 3.5 times. During the spin and stopping, I didn't hit anything else. No other cars, not that crazy bitch and not the side of the road. It was really amazing. It was a beautiful, sunning day around 3pm. Thanks to physics and the people who designed both the vehicle and tires, I was saved from harm. The woman stopped after I pulled over to the side of the road. My car was facing oncoming traffic at this point. We both got out. She started appologizing for her actions. I grabbed her and gave her a huge bear-hug. She was an Asian womain ... perhaps 40 yrs old. I'm a big white man a little older. She wanted to exchange information, since there might be damage, but nothing was harmed. I gave her another bear hug, and left. There were 50 witnesses - all sitting in two left turn lanes who saw the entire thing. It never crossed my mind to hit her even though she just tried to kill me. No pains ever happened, thanks to physics and good engineering.

      My wife and I agree. We teach our kids the same things. "God" or "god" are for weak people with weak minds, but we don't want to upset them, so we play along. All your friends are weak. Their parents are weak. Almost everyone else is weak minded because they believe in imaginary forces that do not exist. Look at Xmas, Halloween, Easter ... the entire world claims to believe. 10% are like us and just play along.

      Why do we play along?
      * Jobs; If daddy told his boss that he didn't believe, he would be passed over for raises and promotions.
      * Family; parts of our family are weak, like grandma and most of your aunts and uncles.
      * Avoid Harrassment from religious groups for our lack of beliefs.

      Basically, religious people are bigots and perform extreme discrimination, so we must act like there is some god.

      It is the most important secret our kids have. Never tell anyone. It isn't safe. Mommy and Daddy have a few friends that believe like we do, but most do not.

      All religions are stupid wastes of effort. The only good reason to have a religion is for the tax free aspects. Look throughout history and there are thousands of examples of religions doing terrible things to people and the world. Terrible things.

    9. Re:we need a litmus test by tehcyder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Interestingly, you could be describing life under the Taliban or in Saudi Arabia, just with a few tweaks because it's a Christian theocracy rather than an Islamist one.

      With all the prattling about how free America is, I know that I'd rather live in the UK where you don't have to pretend to be religious ever.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. electrion year by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's an election year. Don't believe anything they say. Republicans this year especially have been saying the craziest crap because they know crazy people are more likely to vote than sane ones, who long ago gave up and decided the world was run by crazy people. Oh, did you just see what I did there? :( This guy has a long list of failures politically and personally (4 marriages)... I suspect he'd wear a pink tutu and sing songs from Little Mermaid if he thought he'd get more votes.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:electrion year by DJRumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except for the fact that he's running unopposed? In his case it doesn't matter that it's an election year.

      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/06/arkansas-republican-slavery-was-blessing-in-disguise-that-rewarded-blacks-with-u-s-citizenship/

    2. Re:electrion year by joocemann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please don't act like so many people and start drawing all kinds of loose/false inferences from a claim/argument.

      She said what she said. What she said was an explanation that is plausible, and that is all she said. Absolutely *NOTHING* about that explanation suggests that her opinion is that it is ok. And maybe she does think that, but, again, absolutely nothing about that claim suggests anything about what you've decided to ask about.

      In communication you should focus your attention more on the facts and arguments of those communicating, and less on what you want to know from that communication. In this, you can remain in a more clear discussion with less unnecessary explanation.

      Slashdot, and the rest of the interwebz, is famous for responses that are full of assumptions and unnecessary questions. Please help reduce this. Stay on point.

    3. Re:electrion year by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 60-70% of Americans who are not right-wing nutballs have been making the critical mistake, for quite some time now, of believing that the 30-40% who are right-wing nutballs don't mean what they say, because nobody's really that crazy, right? I mean, maybe a few people, but not tens of millions of them, right? Right?

      Except that yes, they are. And while they may be a minority in absolute terms, there are enough of them to constitute a majority of the Republican Party--which means that roughly half of the American political establishment is under the absolute control of these loons. Non-crazy Republicans, of whom there are still quite a few, have wilfully blinded themselves to this situation, and continue to vote to give the nutballs power. The only way to stop this is for the rest of America, the slim majority (hopefully) which is not in the thrall of either ideology or party loyalty, to recognize what's going on, unify against the nutballs and all who associate with them, and send them back to the fringes where they belong.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    4. Re:electrion year by Grayhand · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is about power and control. They aren't trying to control their behavior or beliefs of people like them they want to control the rest of us. It's out of fear. Their beliefs can't survive the acid test of "what if I'm wrong" so they don't want anyone posing the question in the first place. It's why the church suppressed science for so long. People that believe this is about religious freedom are living in a fools paradise. The fanatically religious don't want religious freedom they want everyone to be forced to follow THEIR beliefs. Right wing conservatives are far more dangerous than any terrorist group. They are over here and they have power and worst of all they are very organized. They control through fear. Anyone that tells you to be afraid of everyone and everything that isn't like them or their beliefs is dangerous and a threat to our way of life!

  3. Re:Post bigotry here by YukariHirai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not anti-religious, I'm anti-idiot. I'm fine with people believing in God, but not people who think that said belief means science is wrong.

  4. Re:Well... by noobermin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The issue is this man is on a committee that helps oversee and draft science related bills in the House. Why are people like him and Akin get on these committees?

  5. What impact will it have on STEM education? by rogerz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, if the federal government didn't control education policy and funding, then it would have no impact whatsoever. If you advocate the involvement of government in education, you can have very little to say in opposition to elected officials' pedagogical opinions being leashed on the classroom.

    --
    If humans are mostly water, and beer is mostly water, then humans must be mostly beer.
    1. Re:What impact will it have on STEM education? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > If you advocate the involvement of government in education, you can have very little to say in opposition to elected officials' pedagogical opinions being leashed on the classroom.
      What a false dichotomy (Tea Party much?). Try the the 3rd option: Yes, you actually can have completely valid criticism.
      Look at the educational successes of other countries as well as America's and rethink your 'big government is the problem' American exceptionalism talking point.

  6. Re:how do these people get into these positions? by bkmoore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Both... To get elected in America, you either need lots of $$$ or the backing of one of the two major political parties, hence $$$. The primary system in most states ensures that only candidates who can successfully pander to about 0.5% of the population (die hard party loyalists) ever make it on to the ballot for the general election. So it is often the case that you either need to be exceedingly ignorant, or a very good liar in order to get nominated.

    The voters suffer because we very often don't even get to vote for the most suitable candidates for office. That is also the reason that compromise in Washington D.C. is almost impossible. Failure to tow the party line means a primary challenge, and possibly not being able to get a nomination for the next election.

  7. Direct link to the video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge64kMFoQEo

    It has the greatest Youtube comment I've ever read too:
    'You know what this video needs? More deer heads.' Thank you, Crossss8!

  8. Depressing by Emetophobe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He sits on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

    This makes me angry and depressed at the same time.

  9. It's worth remembering some people think that way by Yoik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can't really reach a consensus on many issues when such differences exist. Democracy makes the Majority "right" so it is important not to let their views go unchallenged.

  10. Re:Post bigotry here by SydShamino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because they might be a U.S. Congressman who has a direct impact on science and technology funding, tax law, and application in this country?

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  11. This man is an idiot by ffoiii · · Score: 3, Insightful

    His brain is not connected to a single rational thought, but he is a fucking elected congressman.

    1. Re:This man is an idiot by Tanuki64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, the man is an idiot. What are the people who elected him?

  12. Newsflash: Religion != myth oriented Christianity by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's entirely possible to have a well developed sense of the divine (without knowing exactly what it is and understanding that it may be entirely neurological) and be entirely free of Christianity, Islam, or any other fan club affiliation that requires an unproven belief in invisible friends, holy war, talking snakes, ritual blood drinking and/or body eating or additional taxation in the form of tithing.

    Cheers!

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  13. The thing about science... by Luminary+Crush · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... is that it's true whether you believe in it, or not.

    1. Re:The thing about science... by the_B0fh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the problem isn't whether science is true (whether you believe in it or not).

      the problem is that he is actively stopping us from *discovering* the bits of science that we have not yet discovered.

  14. Re:The Pops is OK with it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder what he would think of the Pope saying that there is no conflict between the theory of evolution and church doctrine.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_John_Paul_II

    Considering Broun is Southern Baptist, I bet he'd call it papist devilry and add Catholicism to the list.

  15. Re:Post bigotry here by loxosceles · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People do not live in a vacuum. People who believe in imaginary friends and believe those imaginary friends have sent facts and instructions for how to live, usually want to make everyone else believe those facts and live according to those instructions.

    evolution, or lack thereof
    foreign policy with countries dominated by other religions
    the legal status of a fertilized embryo - stem cell research and abortion
    contraception, sex education
    porn
    many other social policies

  16. Re:Well... by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In the end, we will see who was right...

    Unless we find that science was right, as then you just die and wont know the difference.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  17. People like him... by bmo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... have declared war on the rest of us. They have declared war on modern society.

    And no, there isn't any reasoning with these people, the Dominionists. They are stone cold nuts and they even use the vocabulary of war in their screeds. Any attempt to reason with them is assuming that they are capable of rational thought. They are not. Deep down, they actually and truly believe that science is *the* enemy. It is a position that is beyond the reach of any rational thought, so ridicule is the only tool left. If given half a chance, they would drag us back to pre-inudustrial society with just the Bible as the sole text.

    He needs to be held up to ridicule from sea to shining sea.

    Give him a piece of your mind https://www.facebook.com/brounforcongress

    --
    BMO

  18. Re:Post bigotry here by Telvin_3d · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Until their neighbors declared that, due to their majority on the local School Board, evolution, history, a large chunk of geology, and set theory will no longer be taught. And all children will have a compulsory christian values class. And if you have a problem with it you are free to set up a completely separate school system on your own. And a separate medical system. Heck, unless you are willing to do things all their way you are 'free' to personally replicate all of western society yourself.

    For given values of 'free' a 'free society' ceases to be a society at all.

  19. Re:Worse than terrorists by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was going to offer a completely different comment until I saw your comment.

    They are not worse than terrorists. They *ARE* terrorists. The whole point of religion is to prey on fear. The wrath of god and the requirement of death and suffering for sins is written throughout. It is entirely about punishment for thinking wrong, acting wrong, dressing wrong and even eating wrong... and don't even look the wrong way lest ye be turned to salt.

    The wrath of the loving god is all around us and we must repent or forever live in the jewish trash dump which has somehow become the "hell" we know and love today.

    If ever there was a group of people who prey on others through terror...

  20. Re:Why... by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since the enemy of the US now is highly religious with low scientific potential

    Are we talking about Al Qaeda? Or Georgia Republicans? Because I know it ain't China.

  21. Re:Well... by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because Americans are deeply religious and he reflects genuine religious faith. Religion is the pursuit of primitive tribal society at all costs.

    That's how Superstitionists think, and he's honest about his views.

    "We must respect the other fellowâ(TM)s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
    â" H L Mencken, Minority Report (1956),

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  22. Re:Post bigotry here by jareth-0205 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's a "school system"? I thought a school was a teacher, teaching students something they want to learn. Anyone can hire a teacher to teach anything they want. This "school system" concept you're talking about seems to be a lot of extra nonsense that's only loosely related to teaching or learning. Why do we need to give up our freedom to have a "system" when teachers can teach and students can learn at least as well without it (and for a lot less money)?

    Eeesh... It's genuinely frightening that you think that's a workable system...

  23. Re:Post bigotry here by Vancorps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are you purposely being obtuse on this? Do you have any concept of how education worked before the school "system" was established? This is complete non-sense of the worst kind as it would doom us to repeat the past where the vast majority of the country went uneducated and then comes all the sweeping problems associated with the uneducated masses such as massively increased crime rates across the board and vastly increased numbers of people in poverty.

    A school is a lot more than just a teacher and students. This myopic attitude needs to go away as it is detrimental to the well being of a lot of children out there who's parents are either too busy or too stupid to teach their kids themselves.

    Standards are well accepted on the Internet, I wonder why there is such resistance to the same things in the real world...

  24. Re:There Will Be No Impact by malkavian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except:
    1) The Big Bang theory is something that arises from the study of physics. Saying it's "evil" says that the fundamentals of theoretical physics are evil. Of course physics will be affected if some idiot with a bit of power starts mouthing off that people studying the origins of the universe are evil. Some of those people are quite devout Christians.. Think it doesn't affect them and their state of mind, which affects their work? Technology arises due to knowledge of physics; they're very tightly interlinked. Railing against one part of it has knock on effects everywhere.

    2) Saying evolution (which has been observed) is not important? Hello? There's no problem with having a design base? Well, hey, no problem with doing theology as long as you don't have anything to do with God I guess.. It's a part of Biology, and explains much about how things have arisen, the interactions, and why things have become the way they have.

    No, America isn't anti science. The guy that's the subject of this is, quite frankly, and idiot. He's a member of a scientific board. What should happen is everyone calmly sits down and says "Interesting postulation. Lets see your working, experimental evidence and ensure it's repeatable in objective controlled environments. If it can't be proved, or disproved, it has no place in this environment, and you don't have the beginnings of an understanding of science, so please give up your post on this board, as you have no right to be here".

  25. Re:The Pops is OK with it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    According to some So-Bo's, Catholicism is of Satan.

    http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

  26. Re:Post bigotry here by Vancorps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Private school systems actually have to live up to certain standards set forth for accredidation. That is why they still teach science as science, many certainly do inject creationism as well.

    The reason people think religious nuts would take over is stemmed from history when religious nuts took over. Take a look at the history of the education system and you will surely understand why people feel this way. It happened before, remove government and there is nothing stopping it from happening again.

  27. Please open your eyes and look by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, mankind has steered evolution of a lot of living things. Think of all the different kind of dogs, both the Great Dane and Yorkshire terrier descend from wolves. OK, the breeders provided environmental pressure so you could argue that it is unnatural selection, but the mechanism is proven. Same thing goes for cattle, poultry, roses, wheat,...

  28. Re:Post bigotry here by jareth-0205 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But how would this education work? At some point you're going to tend towards a school again, ie put several students in with one teacher (to make it economically viable) and rotate the (many) students around a smaller number of specialised teachers. And somebody will have to run this, put it in a building with all the admin that is required of running a public building with hundreds of people in it. And then when your students emerge, they will want to have been through a balanced syllabus, which will have to be assessed somehow in a way that is recognised nationwide, so that will have to be standardised somehow, all of which sounds very much like something that a government should be doing.

    Not to say that's a perfect system, but handwavingly pronouncing that the current way is bad (with no specifics other than vague fear-driven generalisations), and that anyone could do it better themselves doesn't convince me.

  29. Re:Post bigotry here by Vancorps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In this particular case making a difference means ensuring that kids get a better education now than in the past, you know, improving the system. A system doesn't have to be perfect to be a good thing, as it evolves you move towards better and better education which then elevates society as educated people become more productive and advance the country further.

    Freedom is not a purpose, it is a state of being. You are not free to make your choices if you are too uneducated to know what your choices are. So I would argue this removes freedom for people to pursue their own happiness. This is based on the assumption that without enforcable standards that the number of people educated will decline significantly.

  30. Render unto Science things that are Science's by DaKong · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If this fellow and those who share his views are sincere, then they ought return all those things which Science hath given them. That means they don't even get to live the life of the Amish, because they still use simple machines like pulleys and gears and those could clearly not exist without Science.

    Let them return their cars, their modern fabrics, their TVs and computers and cell phones. Let them not travel upon paved roads, for those are marvels of modern Science and engineering. Let them have nothing save that which was constructed by hand using tools of no greater sophistication than bronze implements. Let them herd sheep and goats and spin wool and till the soil and walk everywhere they need to go, communicating by speech and clay tablets.

    If they do all those things, then it's fine by me if they serve in Congress and make decisions about matters of Science.

    But if they don't, then they can GTFO and take their brain damage with them.

    --
    If not us, who? If not now, when?
  31. Re:Post bigotry here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Have you met most Americans?

    Anything left of Fascism is considered communism. And CERTAINLY any country with socialized medicine would not be welcomed with open arms :)

    Although, I would like to think that Tim Horton's would be welcomed. Krispy Kreme and Dunkin Donuts, you've been put on notice.

  32. Re:text books shall be accurate by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I don't have a problem in teaching both evolution and creationism as theories -- which they both are -- as long as the teacher then discusses the objective evidence for these theories and how the predictions that they make have been supported by observations. A score sheet contrasting them (and others, eg lamarkism) can then be drawn up and used to decuce relative probabilities of correctness for each theory.

    The teacher should then ask the kids to use the same methods in the religious indoctrination (sorry, I should have said: education) classes.

  33. Re:Post bigotry here by bfandreas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Given that the country was founded on then 500 year old whig ideas you'd think that a political process that'd be based on who prayed the loudest would be utterly rejected one would think that people like him would be utterly rejected as being fit for serving on governmental duties.
    In plaing English that would translate to "Stop voting for idiots.".

    If you ask types like him what family values are all about you'd be subjected to shameful stammer and be drenched in dribble.

    ...and on the tenth day He created dinosaurs which were a bit crap so fuck them.

    --
    20 minutes into the future
  34. Re:Post bigotry here by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I bet this psycho wouldn't agree with the equally crazy statement:

    You keep telling your self that. It won't make your eternal torture in hell go away. Don't claim you weren't warned. Allah is just. You will suffer for all your infinitely large sins against Allah*. You have broken Allah's commandments and stand guilty before Allah. The perversions you follow as morals won't help you when judgement day comes. How you followed some of them won't cover how you broke Allah's commandments. How Allah isn't following your "morals" isn't relevant as He is judging you, not the other way around. Crying about how we all are Allah's children won't help you. Screaming at me for violating the brotherhood of man by agreeing with Allah on what you deserve is pathetic. You are not His child and I am not your brother*. You are now closer to the day Allah will judge you than you were when you wrote your post. You are therefore closer to Hell*.

    * Unless He will make you repent and give you saving faith in how Mohammed payed for your sins in the desert. In that case your sins are payed, Allah has adopted you and heaven awaits. If He give you faith please remember that He had no obligation to do so or to refrain from doing . You are in no position to claim He saved you because of how much better you are than the rest or to complain how He hasn't saved others.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  35. Re:Post bigotry here by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, we can improve the system. But your anarchist system where only the richest get education and the opportunities it opens failed for centuries, millennia, to serve anyone but the rich. And it didn't serve them that well either, compared to how well they're served now.

    Your arguments are all simply that since our public education system has problems, we should delete it entirely - in favor of a intolerable disaster proven worse for centuries. It's obvious why you hate school: yours failed to teach you to think.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  36. Re:Post bigotry here by Indras · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In plaing (sic) English that would translate to "Stop voting for idiots.".

    But that's all that is on the ballot!

    --
    The speed of time is one second per second.
  37. Rome, then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The US got where it is despite every President, Supreme Court Justice, and Congressman (well, nearly all) being religious, in some degree or another.

    Yes indeed... a short-lived experiment at a democratic republic that (a) never managed to even come close to adhering to its own constitutional authorizations, veering further and further from them by the day, and (b) is currently only able to operate courtesy of loans from other countries, and (c) is now possessed of an entirely corrupt political and legal framework, starting at the bottom (legislation) and working right up into all the various human factors (law enforcement, judges, lawyers, politicians and the sundry minions of all the foregoing.)

    I agree: Being religious doesn't make you a useless piece of shit. Just a critical-thinking challenged human being. Neither uncommon or particularly reprehensible. But people being religious does appear to have had a great influence on making our government a useless piece of shit. I know, correlation is no guarantee of causation, but on the other hand, we rarely find massive, consistent and repeatable effect without significant correlation, do we now?

  38. Re:Post bigotry here by pwizard2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You keep telling your self that. It won't make your eternal torture in hell go away. Don't claim you weren't warned. God is just. You will suffer for all your infinitely large sins against Him*. You have broken His commandments and stand guilty before Him. The perversions you follow as morals won't help you when judgement day comes. How you followed some of them won't cover how you broke Gods commandments. How God isn't following your "morals" isn't relevant as He is judging you, not the other way around. Crying about how we all are His children won't help you. Screaming at me for violating the brotherhood of man by agreeing with God on what you deserve is pathetic. You are not His child and I am not your brother*. You are now closer to the day God will judge you than you were when you wrote your post. You are therefore closer to Hell*.

    I actually read the Bible front to back and saw what kind of a psycho asshole your god really is. If it truly exists, (doubtful) it has no right to judge anyone. Your god embodies malice to a degree that no human could ever hope to reach. Biblegod is clearly the product of a harsh, primitive, barbaric culture and it definitely shows.

    --
    "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
  39. Re:Post bigotry here by IMightB · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wish that more people would realize that the Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the exact same God/Allah/Yahweh (The God of Abraham) they just differ in the implementation. It seems that the Christians in the US are ignorant of this fact and treat Allah as something other than God.

  40. Re:Post bigotry here by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    that's exactly right

    the kind of people who believe fervently in heaven are the kind of low iq and obsessively controlling type of person it would be hell to spend eternity with

    irony

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  41. Re:Post bigotry here by YttriumOxide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So you think the purpose of a school is to limit parents' influence on their children. I think the purpose of a school should be learning and the parents should be free to decide more-or-less everything because they're rightfully free citizens, not government subjects.

    But the children are members of society and not slaves to their parents to be shaped to their will.

    As a parent myself, I WANT society to step in and bitch-slap me hard if I start acting against her best interests. Then if I don't change my ways, I want society to step in and take her away from me.

    The tricky part is to determine what is her "best interests". This is something society needs to get together and agree on as a whole.

    Note that I don't advocate children becoming mindless drones following the rules of society and never thinking outside the box. That would be a terrible state of affairs. No, I rather advocate that children grow up to understand their society and are capable of living within it without being totally fucked when they are forced to interact with it. They can disagree with it if they so choose (perhaps even because the parent has influenced them in that direction), however they'd better be ready to handle society's reaction.

    I guess the main point is that from my point of view, my daughter is an individual person and like any person, has to interact in different circles of life. One is that of her parents (my wife and me); and another is of the city of Hannover, Germany; yet another is the subcontinent of Europe; and yet another is the planet Earth. Each of these circles is a society of a kind and it behooves us all to understand the societies we are in and be capable of interacting with them in the best possible way. Children that do not pass through a formal school system, instead being taught purely at home by their parents or a hired teacher, are usually unable to deal with several of the larger circles that exist and often have large gaps in their knowledge due both to a lack of interaction with others that have opposing viewpoints and a lack of simply being told certain things that the kids who do go to school get taught.

    I'm against schools indoctrinating viewpoints; but I'm very much for them explaining viewpoints. I feel very lucky to have attended school in New Zealand, where the system, while not perfect, is a far sight better at this than many other countries I've seen.

    --
    My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
    Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
  42. Re:Post bigotry here by cyber-vandal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sure that idiotic statement qualifies for Godwin status. Yes Pol Pot murdering millions is exactly the same as ensuring that children learn to read and write. You libertarians will never ever convince anyone because you are such dicks. Anyone sick and can't get healthcare. Let's quote Thomas Jefferson at them, that'll make them feel better. Unemployed and can't find a job. Denounce them as lazy and let them starve, even if they just need a little support to get back into the workplace. Our governments are not perfect but they used to be a lot worse as even a basic examination of history will show you.

  43. Re:Post bigotry here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah. Fringe issues like the ever-expanding national security state, unilateral power grabs by the executive, foreign wars (including the never-ending "war on terrorism"), the stupid, destructive "war on drugs" with its related prison-industrial complex, pervasive government secrecy and an unofficial war on whistleblowers....

  44. Re:Post bigotry here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (4) not american, and wondering when will they start voting for 3rd, 4th and more parties

  45. Who elected this bozo anyway? by DroidFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's the kind of person that gives Christianity a bad name. I am a Christian. I support Intelligent Design. But I don't deny Common Descent and I certainly don't deny the Big Bang. The Big Bang is conclusive evidence FOR a creator! You can't claim that the universe is all that exists when it's plain as day that it had a beginning. This guy is just an anti-scientist, he's not worthy of the Christian faith or of the Republican party.