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Scientists Who Failed to Warn of Quake Found Guilty of Manslaughter
An anonymous reader notes that the BBC reports "Six Italian scientists and an ex-government official have been sentenced to six years in prison over the 2009 deadly earthquake in L'Aquila. A regional court found them guilty of multiple manslaughter. Prosecutors said the defendants gave a falsely reassuring statement before the quake, while the defence maintained there was no way to predict major quakes. The 6.3 magnitude quake devastated the city and killed 309 people." The scientists were first charged more than two years ago.
They were found guilty not primarily for failing to predict the earthquake, but for releasing a statement saying there was probably not going to be one. They are accused of giving people a false sense of security resulting in them not taking necessary precautions.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The moral is: don't work for (the Italian) Government as a scientist.
Palm readers, Farmer's Almanac, anyone who publishes a book about Nostradamus, etc ...
This is beyond ridiculous. It's just stupid.
Wearing pants should always be optional.
I am imagining a large exodus of seismologists from Italy very shortly....
Courts tend to have a history of rejecting cases that would open the floodgates and bog them down until the end of time. Unless you wanted an inquisition against local news meterologists or something?
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If falsely re-assuring people that a disaster won't happen is actionable, then a lot of politicians and government employees are in big trouble.
On top of that, did they establish that the scientists did not believe their own statements?
Now, at least in Italy, you can expect any expert of any hard (or impossible) to predict field to start spouting worst case scenarios for every question just to avoid liability.
Real dumb move Italy. Just because you wanted a scapegoat, you've screwed yourself over for real issues.
The government asked for their assessment, and they gave the best prediction they could given the data they had. Nearly every other seismologist in the world would have given the same assessment. They are being sentenced to prison because they did not predict the quake, pure and simple. The lesson here is that if the Italian government ever asks your assessment on anything, the only valid response is "fuck off and die".
Quick google result here
See? Now you got me karmawhoring!
*ticks 'Post Anonymously'*
Where does it start and end?
As a professional engineer, accountability starts the moment you have a license number in your state.
Any opinion you give on any project makes you liable.
The problem is that too many people are giving opinions on subjects that affect other people's lives and have zero accountability. this trial is a precursor to what may eventually become the norm.
Picture these so-called experts on TV talking about this and that and if they are found wrong and someone was affected by it, then they can be held accountable.
The same will be applied to lawyers and politicians and before you know it, people will be better off if we hold people with some sort of power (over other people) accountable.
How will this ruling affect earthquake predictions from this point on?
"Scientists predicted that sometime this week a massive earthquake will cause all of Italy to break off and fall into the ocean, killing everyone. This marks the 27th week in a row that scientists have made that prediction. When asked about the failure of the previous 26 predictions to come true a lead scientist replied 'It's always possible we're in error and the earthquake might be a little smaller, and might not kill everyone, and possibly might not happen at all. But better safe than sorry. We're sticking with our prediction, so don't say we didn't warn you.'"
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
You can now be tried for NOT yelling FIRE in a crowded theater.
s/[stupid comments]/[intelligent discourse]/gi
While I agree with many of the commenters that this is a bad decision that sets a bad precident, let's make something good come from it and now apply it to bankers and economists with respect to the ongoing banking crisis...
Either we'll get some of them in jail, or (more likely) the laws will be changed quickly.
Some weather services offer weather insurance. Elsewhere, they shouldn't be relied on.
Weather insurance is big in construction or weddings.
Well, these are the same Italian courts who decided there's enough evidence to support the idea that cell phones cause brain tumors despite the fact there's insufficient scientific evidence that's reliable enough to say that.
Which makes one wonder how much actual hard evidence they require, and how much they think about the effects of their rulings.
Unless the ruling is getting garbled as it passes through various sources, every scientist in Italy is going to have to start couching everything in such a way as to give themselves a wide latitude for interpretation.
There may or may not be an earthquake, it may or may not be catastrophic, it could happen any time between now and some other time -- when the ground starts shaking, you'll know. For now assume death is imminent, but don't panic.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
For not enforcing building codes that could withstand a 6.3 quake, or for failing to make a law to prevent the collapse of the buildings in an obviously seismically active region.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
A large and devastating earthquake is imminent somewhere on earth 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
We in the USA feel a bit better now that there is another "developed" nation that is more fscked-up regarding science than the USA.
Table-ized A.I.
They need to follow the ancient Chinese and bring back "The Mandate of Heaven"!
Back in the 'good old days', the emperor was blamed for disasters and would be overthrown since heaven has withdrawn its support. The conviction makes about as much sense, but if you want to see this silliness stop, impose more silliness. :)
They should also blame Astronomers if there's a meteor strike and weathermen if someone gets a sunburn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
You can see a hurricane and tell what direction it's heading (roughly). It's fairly easy for a decent meteorologist to predict this stuff. Earthquakes are different. Having lots of small quakes, *typically* indicates that a "big one" isn't near (as the small quakes relieve some of the pressure). Unfortunately it looks like this was one of those *atypical* instances. IANAG, but have been living in CA for the past 5 years, so I've learned at least the "common knowledge/wisdom" about Earthquake prone regions.
I heard the Italian Court consultant Thomas Jordan head of the Southern Calfornia Earthquake Center talk on this topic. Look at slides 15 & 16 about the difference between prediction and forecasting. The current methodology is to give a probabalistic forecast, like in weather, and not a yes/no prediction. The Italian scientists did not follow current methodology and gave a less useful prediction. The court convicted these scientists of negligence for not being current enough and might have cost some lives. Nearly the entire seismologic community including Dr. Jordan thinks the court decision was wrong.
When you lie for your bosses, save the evidence to make sure they fall with you, because bosses have no loyalty and they LOVE to send you to face the music.
The "scientists" in question seem to have massaged the figures, they weren't lying, they just weren't telling the absolute truth, someone hinted that someone would be pleased if their report said X, they said X and then Y happened and gosh, their bosses dropped them like the flunkies they were.
Life isn't a movie, if it was, this would have been a disaster movie and the boss would have died in some horrible way just seconds after claiming that what is obviously happening isn't happening.
But in real life, the underling takes the blame and the boss gets a promotion for finding the culprit and seeing that justice is done.
r.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Could someone post an English translation of what the scientists actually said?
is the one that can actually predict earthquakes, because he is the one that caused them, he lives in an active volcano, and wants one million dollars! Muhahaha!
Look. Quakes are an act of God.
The Pope is the Main Man when it comes to God.
The Pope didn't warn them.
The Pope is guilty of murder.
Be seeing you...
How do you know the 365 doesn't include the leap day buts omits another day?
If scientists and doctors save a person's life, people thank God for the miracle.
If an "act of God" kills people, then people blame the scientists.
The real crooks are the cops and civil defense people
Corrupt building inspectors were most likely the biggest issue. Newly constructed buildings were not built to code and came crumbling down. Of course, it's a lot harder to go after those guys than just blaming some scientists who were making reasonable predictions based on the available data.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/world/europe/08codes.html
Yawn, the repudlickers promise to help the rich who can already help themselves and you think that's to be lauded?