BBC Turns Off CEEFAX Service After 38 Years

good side of the BBC by Jerry+Smith · 2012-10-23 19:08 · Score: 5, Informative

An example to many broadcasters around the world, very advanced in its views. Still one of my favourites.

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Re:good side of the BBC by TheMathemagician · 2012-10-23 20:17 · Score: 4, Funny

It seems very appropriate for John Major to be commenting on the end of CeeFax. While other former leaders might be asked about the Middle East peace process, or the Euro crisis, or global warming, Major seems perfectly suited to topics like this, garden gnomes, the decline in the size of Wagon Wheels, the positioning of traffic cones etc etc.
Re:good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 23:11 · Score: 0

He is homely in that way. I always love the cruel world goodbyes, so in the English style.
Re:good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 17:12 · Score: 0

I believe John Major is the only person to ever run away from a Circus so he could fulfil his wish of becoming an accountant.

NOT A REAL GERMAN ADVERT by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 19:11 · Score: 0

The real Turner The Worm being sick.

Re:NOT A REAL GERMAN ADVERT by Dogtanian · 2012-10-24 06:10 · Score: 1

The real Turner The Worm being sick.
Oh, I'll admit I really hate it when people on Slashdot "helpfully" explain a joke or reference, especially when it's one that most people here will get (thus cheapening its appeal to those who got it, and not really making it funny to those who didn't).

But the infamous Turner the Worm being being sick incident is just too important to risk going over American Slashdotters' heads. :-)

(BTW, should I label the above as being "NSFW" bearing in mind it was aimed at *children*?!)

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I'm not British by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-10-23 19:14 · Score: 1

Until now, I didn't know CEEFAX even existed - it sounds like it was a good use of technology for its time. However despite what some movie and music moguls believe, you can't halt the march of technology, and eventually time renders every tech obsolete.

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#DeleteChrome

Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 19:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

Really? Time doesn't seem to have obsoleted the wheel yet.
Re:I'm not British by scsirob · 2012-10-23 19:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

Several countries still offer this service under various names. In The Netherlands it is called "Teletekst" and besides being available on the TV set, you can also find it online: http://teletekst.nos.nl/

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To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Re:I'm not British by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-10-23 19:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

They don't have flying cars where you live?

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#DeleteChrome
Re:I'm not British by wvmarle · 2012-10-23 19:44 · Score: 4, Informative

One of the best parts of the BBC CeeFax was the subtitles. It was provided as service for the deaf (so you would get extra notes like "doorbell ringing"), it was also great for people who could not understand English so fluently as it was usually a literal transcription of what was being said. Fantastic help for learning to understand spoken English.
Re:I'm not British by TomC2 · 2012-10-23 19:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

I personally think it is not that the technology of Ceefax has finished, it is more the content. Digital Terrestrial TV services in the UK also offer various text-based services in a much more modern interface, however, there is just not the same quantity of content that Ceefax carried. Ceefax was a bit like a condensed newspaper, whereas the current "Red button" services are more like just the front page of a newspaper. But then again, if you are receiving BBC digital transmissions you also have access to far more channels than when Ceefax was launched, including a 24-hour news channel, so maybe it is not necessary. But for me what is more telling is the BBC have not thought it necessary to completely migrate the Ceefax levels of content onto the digital "red button" services. There was nothing on there that nowadays could not be found on the internet, after all.
Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 19:50 · Score: 1

Your flying car doesn't use rotor blades, jets or ducted fans? All of which are just fancy forms of wheels, just not ones that touch the ground.
Re:I'm not British by dingen · 2012-10-23 19:54 · Score: 1

I'm not British either and English is not my native language. When I watch the BBC, I almost always turn on real time subtitling through their Ceefax service in order to understand everything better.
Now that Ceefax is considered obsolete, those days are over. It sure makes it a lot harder for me to enjoy their broadcasts.

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Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Re:I'm not British by scdeimos · 2012-10-23 19:58 · Score: 1

No, I have a flying iCar. Whilst being revolutionary, it's magical and just works.
Re:I'm not British by alex67500 · 2012-10-23 20:17 · Score: 1

I've lived close to the British culture and deep in the French one. It sounds a bit like when the French turned off the Minitel (http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/06/28/1241252/france-ending-minitel-service). Both early interactive services which came over an old delivery method (TV sets for Ceefax, telephone lines for the Minitel).
It's sad to see them go, but it's probably also time to acknowledge that they are obsolete (and costly to maintain) compared to the Internet.
Re:I'm not British by defnoz · 2012-10-23 20:17 · Score: 1

Now that Ceefax is considered obsolete, those days are over. It sure makes it a lot harder for me to enjoy their broadcasts.
If you were still watching analogue TV then it certainly will be a lot harder to enjoy any broadcasts. Subtitles are available on digital using the red button - I'm pretty sure the BBC and possibly other broadcasters are obliged to provide subtitles.
Re:I'm not British by JosKarith · 2012-10-23 20:25 · Score: 1

Of course you can't service it yourself. Or re-spray it. Or fly anywhere except toll-charged iRoutes. Or take your friends in it (you'll need another licence for that). Plus it'll be obsolete, unsupported and just not iCool in 2 years time. But till then, enjoy your iCar and laugh at all the peasants in their last gen ground cars without built-in Driving Rights Management...

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Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 20:33 · Score: 0

lets not forget they now offer news.bbc.co.uk
Re:I'm not British by havana9 · 2012-10-23 20:33 · Score: 1

Teletext services could be transmitted with digital television signals, both satellite and terrestrial, and are a standard MPEG feature. A set top box will automatically decode the data and send them over the analogue outputs, or superimposes the decoded page on the video output. Satellite broadcasting for Italy, Germany and France are still sending Teletext pages. I've experience with the MHP services on terrestrial television in Italy. Simply put MHP services are totally and utterly slow, even if MHP decoders are more costrly due the bigger CPU they have to run Java ME, instead of use only the computer power equivalent to a Z80. Worst of all the user interface between various broadcaster is different, even if they're sending teletext-like news and it's too easy to put animated adverts everywhere.
Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 20:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

As a British citizen you may not know that "using the red button" activates a feature in your digital receiver that is only
available in receivers sold to UK customers. What we buy in the rest of the world does not have that function.
We can receive teletekst and DVB subtitling, but not "the red button" services.
Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 20:35 · Score: 0

Why don't you just turn on closed captioning?
Re:I'm not British by dingen · 2012-10-23 20:45 · Score: 1

The red button does something else entirely on my set top box. The BBC's digital services only work from within the UK.

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Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Re:I'm not British by dingen · 2012-10-23 20:46 · Score: 1

How? Without Ceefax, I'm not sure if there is way to get subtitling on the BBC from abroad.

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Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 20:57 · Score: 0

That would be up to your cable/satellite provider. Considering how many regular OTA stations provide this service, it's hard to believe that you don't have the option.
Re:I'm not British by pe1chl · 2012-10-23 20:59 · Score: 1

Fortunately the BBC also transmits DVB subtitling.
However, the typical cable company does not relay it to the clients yet.
Maybe this changes in the future?
Right now, I can enable subtitles on my satellite receiver, but not on Ziggo digital cable.
(on analogue cable you are probably out of luck - DVB subtitling cannot be converted to teletext)
Re:I'm not British by 91degrees · 2012-10-23 21:06 · Score: 1

Pretty certain the subtitles are available on my (Belgian) cable box. Just uses the standard subtitle mechanism of the STB from the menu.
Re:I'm not British by wijnands · 2012-10-23 21:11 · Score: 0

So true! It helped me a lot when learning English. Fond memories. Ceefax was glacially slow over here on Dutch cable though, like accessing a BBS with a 1200/75 modem
Re:I'm not British by BenJury · 2012-10-23 21:27 · Score: 1

This is still available on the digital platform.

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Re:I'm not British by hawkinspeter · 2012-10-23 21:30 · Score: 1

I hear they patented their new iWheel invention that's used in that.

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Re:I'm not British by DrXym · 2012-10-23 21:58 · Score: 1

Subtitles are now included in the transport stream as bitmaps. Some programmes will also have a separate audio track for partial sighted / blind people.
Re:I'm not British by slim · 2012-10-23 22:27 · Score: 1

Teletext is slow by its nature. It simply broadcasts every page, in a loop, over and over again.
With early receivers, you just had to wait.
Later on, when RAM got a bit cheaper, receivers would detect the four page numbers linked to the coloured buttons, and cache the content of those next time they were broadcast.
Eventually RAM got cheap enough that receivers would just cache the full set of pages.
Re:I'm not British by serviscope_minor · 2012-10-23 22:33 · Score: 1

Time doesn't seem to have obsoleted the wheel yet.
That's because "the wheel" isn't a specific technology.
Almost every kind of wheel ever invented has been obsoleted. This is why cars roll around on radial tyres on steel or alloy wheels, rather than wooden wagon wheels with steel tyres or just roll on crudely cut logs.
You may as well say "computing devices" hve not been obsoleted yet, even though almost every specific instance has been.

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SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re:I'm not British by Chrisq · 2012-10-23 22:33 · Score: 1

Really? Time doesn't seem to have obsoleted the wheel yet.
Careful it could be covered by a patent. Its just a rectangle with very rounded corners
Re:I'm not British by serviscope_minor · 2012-10-23 22:37 · Score: 1

nstead of use only the computer power equivalent to a Z80.
waaaaaaaay less computing power. It was a very simple state machine, and could be implemented on a simple chip. The BBC micro (6502 powered) had a teletext chip because it used 1k of memory and was cheaper than adding tons of extra RAM to store store a frame buffer. The BBC could also do frame buffer graphics, but the largest took a rather substantial fraction of the available memory.

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SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re:I'm not British by KDR_11k · 2012-10-23 22:49 · Score: 1

Of course they did, it has rounded corners!

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Re:I'm not British by flyingfsck · 2012-10-23 22:58 · Score: 1

A triangular wheel has fewer bumps than a rectangular wheel, so its corners can be less rounded...

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Re:I'm not British by Chrisq · 2012-10-23 23:14 · Score: 1

A triangular wheel has fewer bumps than a rectangular wheel, so its corners can be less rounded...
Race you to the patent office ... oh no prior art.
Re:I'm not British by isorox · 2012-10-23 23:21 · Score: 1

They don't have flying cars where you live?
Yes, but I still have to steer it!
Re:I'm not British by tehcyder · 2012-10-23 23:30 · Score: 2

They don't have flying cars where you live?
Only on slashdot could this be modded as insightful rather than funny.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:I'm not British by tehcyder · 2012-10-23 23:34 · Score: 1

But ceefax, which is essentially news in text format accessed from a distance, isn't obsolete at all. I would happily read teletext on my TV instead of via the internet on my phone/computer (especially if I lived somewhere with slow or no internet). I don't see any reason to get rid of it at all

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:I'm not British by tehcyder · 2012-10-23 23:37 · Score: 1

Yeah but a triangular wheel would just look evil. Three is most certainly not the magic number, it is a harbinger of the end times, the mark of Satan and probably the number of the beast (if you muliply it by 222). Once triangular wheels appear, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, the triple-breasted whore of Babylon will rule us all and Formula 1 and NASCAR will become even more boring than they are now.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:I'm not British by gsslay · 2012-10-23 23:55 · Score: 1

Subtitles are still freely and easily available on all BBC channels, just using different technology. So it's not as if anyone's going to miss Ceefax's ancient and quirky provision of them.
Re:I'm not British by jonbryce · 2012-10-24 00:02 · Score: 1

And you can, it is on Red Button now.
Re:I'm not British by stridebird · 2012-10-24 00:30 · Score: 1

Actually, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
I really should get around to updating my bookmark.
Re:I'm not British by SpaghettiPattern · 2012-10-24 01:00 · Score: 1

Several countries still offer this service under various names. In The Netherlands it is called "Teletekst" and besides being available on the TV set, you can also find it online: http://teletekst.nos.nl/
I read Teletekst almost every day and I dearly miss Ceefax which since a longer time is no longer broadcast over satellite channels.

The Dutch the web implementation has serious issues with synchronisation and page linking. Never noticed that sometimes you see half a page? Never noticed that the arrows sometimes just don't bring you to a linked page? Those are tedious little bugs which should be fixed. In more than 15 years of using the service I haven't found time to report them them. The shame is on me!

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Re:I'm not British by FireFury03 · 2012-10-24 01:03 · Score: 1

The red button does something else entirely on my set top box. The BBC's digital services only work from within the UK.
Not true - the BBC digital services will work on any receiver that supports MHEG-5 - no requirement to be in the UK (as if the receiver knows where it is anyway...)

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Re:I'm not British by Dogtanian · 2012-10-24 01:08 · Score: 1

Eventually RAM got cheap enough that receivers would just cache the full set of pages.
Yes, I noticed that the TV I bought a couple of years ago had incredibly fast Teletext access, obviously because it was automatically caching every page as soon as it was received.
An obvious step, given that holding the complete output of one channel would be a low number of megabytes.
Of course, that would have been a ludicrously large and expensive amount of memory in the mid-70s (when even the kilobyte needed for a single page would have been a non-trivial cost), which is probably why those early sets didn't do any caching. But that much (or little) memory would be insignificantly cheap in an era where multi-gigabyte SD cards cost a few pounds. And ironically, it does make Teletext that much more usable than it was in its heyday.
Unfortunately, six weeks after I got that set, they switched off the old TV signal (and hence old-style Teletext along with it). :-(

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Re:I'm not British by sa1lnr · 2012-10-24 01:31 · Score: 1

They don't have flying cars where you live?
No, but we do have aircraft and they still have wheels.
Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 03:08 · Score: 0

Norway has it too, and in light of this shutdown they've released an article announcing that they're going to go strong with the service which they call TextTV.
Re:I'm not British by houghi · 2012-10-24 04:41 · Score: 1

http://www.een.be/teletekst http://concorde.paratel.be/paratel/ttviewer/?channel=VTM&pagenbr=812 http://www1.wdr.de/themen/infokompakt/videotext/externvtx100.html I think I could go on a while.

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Re:I'm not British by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 06:28 · Score: 0

I live in a flyover state, you insensitive clod!
Re:I'm not British by Tore+S+B · 2012-10-26 00:51 · Score: 1

Yep. Tekst-TV is the generic name of the service in Norway, the analog of "teletext", I suppose. NRK used to run Tekst-TV on VAX and later Alpha OpenVMS systems. Now we run it off a doubly redundant Linux box with a bit of custom software.
It's really all a fun and kludgey affair, but quite stable - the box outputs analog composite video with the Huffmann-coded data - which is then run into a really old MPEG-2 encoder (which is the only box around that will actually import teletext) - which then turns it into a transport stream over ASI, which then runs into the modern multiplexer. The external data used to arrive by a varied set of different means but it's all XML over HTTP now, which is munged into Teletext by way of a templating system written in Object Pascal, of all things.
Tekst-TV is still one of our most popular services, and we get immediate feedback if there is any error in the content - some of the feedback displaying a truly admirable attention to accuracy from the users! Bathing temperatures, ski information, airport arrivals/departures, stock exchange - people tend to remember the page numbers, and so it's really only between four and six key strokes to get the information in an instant. The typography isn't beautiful, but I don't check bathing temperatures for the typography. :)
The system is very well integrated with our other content infrastructure. The subtitles are integrated with our DVB subtitling system, for instance, and the news delivery with our web CMS. This enables us to keep the system chugging along very cost-efficiently.

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toresbe

I remember our first Ceefax set by Chrisq · 2012-10-23 19:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

I remember our first Ceefax set. It seemed magical having all that information at hand, waiting with anticipation as the page numbers rolled round to the one you selected. And there were the Ceefax subtitles - some of which added extra humour. I was tipped off on the subtitles on "Rab C Nesbit", which would translate Rab's colloquial Glaswegian into really pretentious English, including the odd "old chap", but would then translate a rather snobbish Englishman into Glaswegian. (Some English viewers actually needed the subtitles to understand the Glaswegian accent, so this was a joke on them).

Re:I remember our first Ceefax set by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 19:24 · Score: 0

Same here. My mother loved Rab C but always watched it with the subtitles on. And she loved playing Bamboozle
Re:I remember our first Ceefax set by JasterBobaMereel · 2012-10-23 19:51 · Score: 2

Digital TV in the UK still has a text service, and still has subtitles it's just not called Ceefax anymore but "red button" ....

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Re:I remember our first Ceefax set by TheMathemagician · 2012-10-23 20:12 · Score: 1

Hey! I'm English and I found Rab C difficult to follow at first. Not just because of the accent but because of the dialect words used (eg. wain/wean = child).
Re:I remember our first Ceefax set by Tastecicles · 2012-10-23 20:43 · Score: 1

DTS (Digital Text Service) != Ceefax.
Never was, never intended to be. DTS is about so much more than a 70-word soundbite. It's also a gateway to parallel channels.

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Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Re:I remember our first Ceefax set by Tastecicles · 2012-10-23 20:47 · Score: 1

sorry, did I say 70 words? I meant 70 characters!

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Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Re:I remember our first Ceefax set by cyclomedia · 2012-10-24 01:36 · Score: 1

Just in case the internet was wondering : wain/wean = wee-one = small-one

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If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.

If it ain't broken... by MonoSynth · 2012-10-23 19:25 · Score: 4, Informative

It's still alive and kicking here in the Netherlands, known as Teletekst. Every journalist wants to be on page 101.

There's even a web-interface and an iPhone app for it, which is a no-nonsense, clutter-free, low-bandwidth source of news, weather, stocks and sport results. I can't live without it :)

http://teletekst.nos.nl/

I must say that I rarely use it on my tv anymore. Which is kind of funny, because nowadays it's still trapped inside the low-tech interface of the 70s although it's mostly used on devices so advanced that even the big visionaries of that age couldn't even dream about it.

Is it nostalgia? Or more like the Stockholm Syndrome? Or does it just hit a sweet spot of usability and simplicity?

Re:If it ain't broken... by FaxeTheCat · 2012-10-23 20:18 · Score: 1

It is still alive in Norway (and I guess a lot of countries) as well. The message here is that as long as people use it, it will be there. However, the demographics of the user base (average age is pretty high) indicate that it has a limited future.
Personally, I have not used it since we got triple play fiber ten years ago. Even when I used it, it was a pain, as my TV at the time did not buffer the pages. Any page change involved watching the page counter going through all the pages I did not want until it reached the one I wanted. I also found out that the less popular pages were not included in every loop, so for some pages I had to wait quite a long time.
It is hard to miss something I do not use. Another obsolete technology I will not miss is the telefax...
Re:If it ain't broken... by pe1chl · 2012-10-23 20:40 · Score: 1

One of the alleged problems of teletekst is claimed to be that everything has to be in a 24x40 character frame,
of which in practice only 24x39 is usable, and of course all the standard headers and footers further subtract
from that to leave maybe 20x39 available for each news item.
But while that is limited space and the youngsters undoubtedly would want more space to express the content,
those youngsters invented twitter and use text messaging, with even shorter messages!
I think it actually is a strength of teletekst. The editors are forced to condense their items into very compact and
factual text. Of course this shows the capabilties of the editors, which makes the NOS Teletekst so much
better than the competition from RTL or worst: SBS.
Re:If it ain't broken... by MonoSynth · 2012-10-23 21:05 · Score: 1

The Dutch language is well fitted for quirky creativeness. Last week they managed to announce the death of a pioneer in the field of bone marrow transplants in just 34 letters and one space :)
http://www.spatiegebruik.nl/popup.php?id=3418 (4th headline)
Re:If it ain't broken... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 21:26 · Score: 0

Combination of Stockholm and simplicity I think.
Re:If it ain't broken... by slim · 2012-10-23 22:14 · Score: 1

It is still alive in Norway (and I guess a lot of countries) as well.
In what form? According to Wikipedia analogue TV was turned off in Norway in 2009.
Re:If it ain't broken... by Errol+backfiring · 2012-10-23 22:32 · Score: 1

I use it a lot. Why should I connect my mobile to the internet if the TV is already on? If I only want to check the news / weather / train delays / the television programme, nothing beats teletekst.

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Re:If it ain't broken... by WWWWolf · 2012-10-24 00:05 · Score: 1

It is still alive in Norway (and I guess a lot of countries) as well.
In what form? According to Wikipedia analogue TV was turned off in Norway in 2009.
The DVB standard, which is used in digital broadcasting almost everywhere except North America, still supports teletext. It's just that some of the most commonly used features, like subtitles, have made their way into separate features.
Re:If it ain't broken... by david.given · 2012-10-24 01:11 · Score: 1

I can't get over how fast that client is... after sitting through broadcast Teletext and waiting for pages to cycle round, it's interesting to see how much more usable the system becomes when it's responsive. Those 40x24ish pages actually contain a reasonable amount of text to take in at one glance. (Although of course I can't actually read the Dutch version.) I think people are right, and the brevity required by the small pages is actually an advantage.
(When I was small we had one of those modern Fasttext sets, with 4kB of memory. This allowed it to cache three pages in addition to the one the user was looking at. It would load the ones referred to by the coloured buttons. This made it vastly easier to navigate... although those damned cycling pages were as annoying as ever.)
Re:If it ain't broken... by znark · 2012-10-24 03:28 · Score: 1

The DVB standard ETSI ETS 300 743 defines a method for transmitting Teletext data over a DVB (MPEG-TS) stream. This method is used in the DVB countries which maintain the old Teletext service alongside with the digital broadcasts. DVB set-top boxes and TV sets with an integrated DVB receiver/decoder commonly include a Teletext browser.
UK has chosen to abolish Teletext in favor of an MHEG-5 based information service – known as the “red button” service by the viewers. However, this does not mean it wouldn't have been technically possible to carry the full Ceefax Teletext service over DVB broadcasts in the UK as well: the local broadcasting companies just chose not to do it.
Broadcasters in some countries – such as Finland and Italy – have experimented with providing a similar information service through the more ambitious, Java-based MHP, instead of MHEG-5. But in Finland, at least, these experiments have failed due to unenthusiastic response from the STB makers and the general public. (The MHP services were probably introduced at a too early stage, and it was partially a PR failure as well.) Instead, regular Teletext service is still being broadcast on many local DVB channels using the method defined in ETSI ETS 300 743.
Re:If it ain't broken... by znark · 2012-10-24 04:37 · Score: 1

I can't get over how fast that client is... after sitting through broadcast Teletext and waiting for pages to cycle round, it's interesting to see how much more usable the system becomes when it's responsive.
Many modern TV sets (from mid-to-late 1990s and onwards) and DVB set-top boxes can cache all Teletext magazines – including subpages – which makes browsing the content a breeze.

A bad precedent by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 19:26 · Score: 0

While I don't care too much about the Teletext service of BBC, I still rely very much on the Teletext service of German stations. It's still easier than to start your browser, go to some specific site (in the hope that the URL didn't change — they do so much more often than the page numbers in Teletext, and if they do, it's usually much more work to find the new one) and try to gather the information there from an overloaded site (that Teletext has limited bandwidth is an advantage. It forces the provider to make the information compact).

Also, it has the advantage to also work if the computer is off (the TV starts much faster than the computer).

Re:A bad precedent by slim · 2012-10-23 22:12 · Score: 1

I still rely very much on the Teletext service of German stations
I'm confused. Wikipedia tells me that German analogue TV broadcasts were switched off in Germany in 2009.
Re:A bad precedent by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 00:00 · Score: 0

The BBC decision was a financial one, there is no technical problem having teletext with DVB-T or DVB-C.
Germany and several other countries still have it.

A clue about foreign interests for you ... by Grindalf · 2012-10-23 19:26 · Score: 2, Informative

Q. Who was REALLY asked over analogue TV broadcasting and CEEFAX in the UK? A. Nobody

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The purpose of existence is to make money.

Re:A clue about foreign interests for you ... by slim · 2012-10-23 22:30 · Score: 1

... and yet on another /. story, people are complaining about the price and availability of mobile internet.
There is only so much spectrum. Analogue TV was not an efficient use of it.

Farewell MODE 7 by drunkahol · 2012-10-23 19:41 · Score: 1

Goodnight

Re:Farewell MODE 7 by shades66a · 2012-10-23 20:12 · Score: 2

10 MODE 7
20 PRINT CHR$(141);CHR$(136);CHR$(129);"Goodbye Cruel World"
30 PRINT CHR$(141);CHR$(136);CHR$(132);"Goodbye Cruel World"
Re:Farewell MODE 7 by Rufty · 2012-10-23 23:19 · Score: 1

*FX247,76
*FX201,1

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Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
Re:Farewell MODE 7 by drunkahol · 2012-10-24 00:03 · Score: 1

I had (and still have) an Acorn Electron, so the syntax of MODE 7 has always been beyond me :-(

Prestel-Another British bygone. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 19:42 · Score: 0

Prestel

*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-10-23 19:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

An example to many broadcasters around the world, very advanced in its views. Still one of my favourites.

Unfortunately, it's no more.

After Rutgers U turned off Usenet, BBC turned off Ceefax.

Looks like good stuffs just ain't made to last as long as their rotten counterparts.

Wonder what's next ... ?

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !

Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by BenJury · 2012-10-23 21:26 · Score: 2

There is still a 'text' service on the digital platform. Although I confess to not using it that much as nowadays a device which can browse their news site is always just an arm reach away.

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Blatant Advert: Android Apps!
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by DrXym · 2012-10-23 21:49 · Score: 4, Informative

The BBC has moved to digital "teletext" which is basically the same service sitting over MHEG-5. So instead of news headlines as pure text you get news headlines as text and a thumbnail graphic. Instead of a weather forecast rendered in blocks, asterisks and slashes in garish mode 7 colours you get a nice picture. Theoretically it's more powerful since it can embed graphics and text, is interactive and can even use picture-in-picture and switch video streams. But it's still primitive compared to HTML + JS markup and I can't see this service lasting 38 years.
The issue is compounded because it's quite slow. Most boxes I've used are not caching the content so feeling reminds me of teletext circa 1980. You have to sit there for ages waiting for the carousel to deliver the content the box is waiting on. To improve responsiveness the data stream has to keep repeating the indexes and main content more frequently. It also doesn't work with recorded content since most PVRs strip out the data stream unlike Ceefax which would survive. I assume some boxes would cache content so the responsiveness could be improved.
The main other use of Ceefax was subtitles, and subtitles are handled through a different mechanism. Transport streams from the BBC contain a subtitle track and often also a separate narration audio track too for blind people.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by slim · 2012-10-23 22:20 · Score: 1

[Digital teletext] also doesn't work with recorded content since most PVRs strip out the data stream unlike Ceefax which would survive.
If you recorded onto Series 1 Tivo, Ceefax didn't survive.
*Some* VCRs would preserve enough of the frame for Ceefax to work when you played back a recording. I think it was more through accident than design though. More usually, it would be recorded in distorted form, which meant amusingly garbled subtitles, and some education in how a digital system might handle corrupt input data.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by DrXym · 2012-10-23 23:01 · Score: 1

Ceefax / Oracle et all sent packers attached to scanlines which were usually hidden in the overscan area. It's possible that the TIVO reencoded the analogue signal and cropped all that stuff out. VCRs probably just blindly copied the overscan area but due to degradation and lack of error checking, it was hit or miss if it survived. Teletext could also be incredibly flakey with a poor reception.
On digital streams IIRC teletext was sent as packets in the stream and the SoC would reconsitute the packets into the output signal in the overscan area so the TV could see them. Some STBs might also be able to show teletext through their own software.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 23:07 · Score: 1

Agreed Ceefax and similar teletext services were extraordinary useful in their day. As far back as the 1970's you could browse for news and sports information as well as detailed broadcasting schedules and lots of other useful information. It remained useful right through the days of dial up internet because it was often quicker to turn on the telly than boot a computer for a quick news fix. It used to always annoy me when visiting the USA that teletext never caught on there.
Am I right in remembering that the BBC even offered software downloads via CEEFAX at one stage?
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 23:35 · Score: 1

"Wonder what's next ... ?"
AM & FM Broadcast radio and Over the air television.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Soruk · 2012-10-24 00:08 · Score: 1

Yes - Telesoftware from P700 on BBC2. This was discontinued a long while ago though.
There were also teletext adaptors from several outfits including Morley for the BBC Micro that connected to your TV aerial and downloaded the content straight into the computer.

--
-- Soruk
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 00:32 · Score: 0

As far as I'm aware, S-VHS recorders were good enough to preserve the data (and old S-VHS recordings are sought after by people trying to archive old Teletext pages), but VHS wasn't.
However, I assume that is using equipment designed to decode Teletext in the "usual" way. I'm sure that if one was able to digitise the picture complete with overscan and feed it through more advanced signal-processing software it should be possible to decode some or all of the Teletext stored on a VHS tape.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by tibit · 2012-10-24 02:33 · Score: 1

I'm not so sure about that. The problem might be that VHS has some, um, leniency as to how long a head switch takes. I bet the head switch obliterates the teletext scanline...

--
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by shippo · 2012-10-24 02:35 · Score: 1

Telesoftware was ended in September 1989. It was mainly used to distribute educational software and utilities to BBC Micro users, although during the last year of the service they also transmitted PC software. The Telesoftware service was also used to distribute other content to schools, mainly satellite weather maps and text files containing teacher's notes covering the BBC's education programming. The Telesoftware service took up 20% of the overall bandwidth for the CEEFAX service carried on BBC2, and given that only a very small proportion of users ever used the service, it was decided to drop it. The end of the BBC schools computing scheme, the fact that the weather maps that the system distributed would no longer be made available free-of-charge, and the poor take-up of PC adaptors all contributed to making the closure inevitable.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 03:42 · Score: 0

Funny, I was reading about this recently and IIRC the head switch took place at the bottom of the field (i.e. bottom of the TV screen) but not overlapping the end because it couldn't risk messing up sync signals at the start of the next field?
I might be wrong, but that's what I heard. If so, it shouldn't affect Teletext, which was always on the first lines of the screen.
Re:*Used to be* good side of the BBC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 04:00 · Score: 0

*Some* VCRs would preserve enough of the frame for Ceefax to work when you played back a recording. I think it was more through accident than design though.
My Super-VHS VCR seemed to play back Ceefax OK (some errors but mostly readable) whereas the VHS VCRs I tried never managed it.

Text no more by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 20:06 · Score: 0

Austext (The australian version) was stopped a few years ago too.

Teletext by adolf · 2012-10-23 20:12 · Score: 1

As a USian, I'd like to remind folks that some of this tech once leaked over to this side of the pond.

I remember, 20 or so years ago, being at a BBS-friend's house and being totally enthralled with his then-fancy Zenith TV: Just tune to one of Ted Turner's many cable channels, push the appropriate button, and news, weather, cheesy games, and random became individually accessible...without modem or a phone line.

I always thought it was very cool tech, and I'm still not sure if it is matched in any meaningful way today.

Unfortunately, it died a weird sort of catch-22 sort of death: There weren't enough TV sets that supported it at the time that it existed to drive interest, and by the time that sets did commonly support it the services were already gone.

--
Kid-proof tablet..

Re:Teletext by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 21:13 · Score: 0

I used to enjoy the VBI enhanced shows, such as Homicide: Life on the Streets. With VBI, NBC used to push full web pages down with photos of evidence they "collected at the scene", including blood stained shirts and notes and stuff. It was such a fun experience, I was really sad to see that go.
Re:Teletext by NJRoadfan · 2012-10-24 00:12 · Score: 1

Was that the infamous WebTV for Windows and Wavetop? I remember beta testing it in Windows 98 as I had the one video capture card it supported (the ATI All-in-Wonder). It was bloated and buggy. Basically it never worked and the virtual "TV Data" network adapter was infamous for screwing up the real network adapters in the system. I remember reading in the private beta newsgroups that it was a pile of junk and people were questioning why Microsoft was even bothering to ship it. Microsoft made a very brief push into the interactive TV business when Windows 98 was released and quickly left it to die a quiet death. I think Wavetop imploded quickly thereafter.
Re:Teletext by adolf · 2012-10-24 13:04 · Score: 1

Everything you say is true, but: At least one Anonymous Coward thought it was cool.

--
Kid-proof tablet..

It sounds like Teletext by rossdee · 2012-10-23 20:22 · Score: 1

That sounds like Teletext which we had in New Zealand from about 1984

Re:It sounds like Teletext by yupa · 2012-10-23 20:32 · Score: 1

It is like the Antiope teletext we got in france : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiope_(teletext)
Re:It sounds like Teletext by slickepott · 2012-10-23 20:38 · Score: 1

I remember my parents tv when I was a child.
It even had a small printer at the front for those pages.
Sweden here btw. :)
Re:It sounds like Teletext by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 21:48 · Score: 2, Informative

It is Teletext. There's the technology (Teletext) and then the individual services. The BBC had CEEFAX, and ITV & Channel 4 (the independent stations) had Oracle. They were both Teletext services, though.
Re:It sounds like Teletext by isorox · 2012-10-23 23:23 · Score: 1

That sounds like Teletext which we had in New Zealand from about 1984
Yes, 10 years after the BBC invented it and gave it to you
Re:It sounds like Teletext by clickclickdrone · 2012-10-24 03:08 · Score: 1

This Philips one had a printer (and voice activated remote!)
http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54404

--
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil

Name source by VlartBlart · 2012-10-23 20:35 · Score: 1

According to the TV this morning (the delicious Susanna Reid), the Ceefax name came from "See facts".

TFS is not accurate. As usual! by Tastecicles · 2012-10-23 20:39 · Score: 2

The Ceefax service to mainland UK shut off in February this year, leaving Northern Ireland as the only area left with coverage.

Oh, and the original ad for Ceefax claimed "it is made up of two words: Cee and Fax." But of a silly one, that.

--
Operation Guillotine is in effect.

Re:TFS is not accurate. As usual! by drunkahol · 2012-10-23 22:45 · Score: 1

Those two words were "See" and "Facts".
Makes more sense now yes?
Re:TFS is not accurate. As usual! by isorox · 2012-10-23 23:25 · Score: 1

The Ceefax service to mainland UK shut off in February this year, leaving Northern Ireland as the only area left with coverage.
Oh, and the original ad for Ceefax claimed "it is made up of two words: Cee and Fax." But of a silly one, that.
It was turned off in 2007 in Whitehaven. In Manchester it was 2009. It was only the stragglers in London, NI and the Channel Islands that hung on til this year.
Re:TFS is not accurate. As usual! by heefeneet · 2012-10-24 01:59 · Score: 1

The Ceefax service to mainland UK shut off in February this year, leaving Northern Ireland as the only area left with coverage.
Oh, and the original ad for Ceefax claimed "it is made up of two words: Cee and Fax." But of a silly one, that.
I think they meant "See" and "Facts". Also, its from the BBC, so [BB]CeeFax seemed a good name.

A Great Hack by chiark · 2012-10-23 20:42 · Score: 1

This started life as a wonderful hack to allow limited broadcast of digital information, encoding data into the (supposedly!) non-visible parts of an analogue TV signal.

This lasted for nearly 3 decades, and was only really obsoleted in the days of DVB-T. That's pretty good going, and definitely served a purpose: subtitles, news, stock market information and cheap holiday adverts...

DataBlast, a small magazine that delivered pages of text at 5 per second (I think) during the titles of Bad Influence - a TV programme in the UK devoted to computer games - was probably inspired by Ceefax/Oracle. You needed to record the section on video (remember them?) and then use pause to read the content.

I had the dubious pleasure of writing a system that would genlock and be able to deliver the necessary frame rate live, from an Amiga 1200... Clunky to the extreme, it was canned after 2 seasons because it was so much work still. (My system replaced a system written in AMOS by one of the production crew which relied on hard coding the screens. A step in the right direction, but still a lot of work...)

So respect to the chaps and chapesses that came up with this and managed to fit so much information into essentially dead bandwitdh!

Re:A Great Hack by jimicus · 2012-10-23 22:22 · Score: 1

DataBlast, a small magazine that delivered pages of text at 5 per second (I think) during the titles of Bad Influence - a TV programme in the UK devoted to computer games - was probably inspired by Ceefax/Oracle. You needed to record the section on video (remember them?) and then use pause to read the content.
I remember that. Didn't work very well for a couple of reasons:
- There were so many games out there on such a wide variety of platforms at the time that the likelihood of seeing anything particularly interesting was slim.
- Our video didn't do a particularly good job of pausing. There was so much noise on the screen when paused that the Datablast was unreadable.

Data dropout fun by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 20:55 · Score: 0

One of the more amusing things about Ceefax and Oracle was that when the weather was bad and the signal was low, it would flip bits, for example, changing 'ORACLE' into 'CRECLE'. Sometimes it would drop the rest of the line completely.

Some of my favourites were:

(This was during Doom's popularity): The home secretary has announced new legislation to crack down on kerb-crawlers and imps.

(From a hijack attempt): gunmen surrounded the plane's ass (which eventually changed back into 'passengers')

Re:Good Riddance by rvw · 2012-10-23 20:58 · Score: 1

Now that CEEFAX is dead, modern services like Twitter and Tumblr can help enrich our lives with more up to date, if slightly editorialized, news.

They can enrich YOUR life. Many old people only know how to use CEEFAX or TELETEXT and for them it's as basic and essential as internet is for us. What does it cost to keep it alive? Is it worth the money to shut off people who will never use internet, and push them out of current society a little more?

888 by Onymous+Hero · 2012-10-23 21:10 · Score: 1

Page Triple Eight for subtitles :) - that was one I used pretty often.

Before we had the internet, ceefax (or teletext on other channels) was my main source of news. It was a great service, and one I'm slightly nostalgic about...

People forget how advanced teletxt was for the 70s by Viol8 · 2012-10-23 21:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

A system of realtime transmission of embedded digital data with live updates and multicolour graphics on a TV before most home computers with the computer actually built into the TV (not a set top box!) was pretty much bleeding edge for the time. Its was truly a quantum leap in home technology when up until that point when most people in the UK still didn't even have colour TV sets.

Those Days Are Indeed Over by andersh · 2012-10-23 21:14 · Score: 1

I'm quite happy those days are over myself, the teletext subtitles were hardly perfect. They performed their function well enough, however the rendering, timing and positioning was often a problem.

In my opinion that sort of feature ought to be taken care of automatically by your viewing apparatus (TV, PC, phone or tablet). The information should either be available as a hidden data stream or interpreted live (speech-to-text). Subtitles should naturally adapt to your display's size and resolution, perhaps even your environment, and the font choice should be user customizable.

On the one hand the BBC isn't made for you specifically, it's supposed to be public broadcasting in the UK. On the other hand the BBC is one of the UK's greatest sources of influence and cultural distribution. The world has realized the potential and value, just look at the Arab world, Russia, France and China's recently launched English and/or multi-lingual offerings!

Re:Those Days Are Indeed Over by dingen · 2012-10-24 00:01 · Score: 1

I would like things to be better as well. But the reality is that I used to have subtitles and now I don't. It's hard to see that as an improvement.

--
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Re:Those Days Are Indeed Over by slim · 2012-10-24 00:32 · Score: 1

What technology do you use to watch BBC wherever you are?
The BBC certainly provides subtitles for all their DVB streams. It would surprise me if a legitimate carrier didn't retain them.
In many countries, there are legal reasons why broadcasters are obliged to provide subtitles for the deaf.
Re:Those Days Are Indeed Over by dingen · 2012-10-24 07:01 · Score: 1

My main method of watching the BBC is through an analog cable signal. With Ceefax gone, that means there simply is no other way to get subtitles.
I do have a digital set top box, but I have yet to try and see if I can get subtitles through that.

--
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.

Old meets new by andyn · 2012-10-23 21:21 · Score: 1

The Finnish Broadcasting Company YLE has adapted the well-aged teletext service for modern purposes by providing real-time Twitter commentary of ongoing muncipal election debates.

Earlier this year they allowed people to post their own pixel art.

Re:Old meets new by MickyTheIdiot · 2012-10-24 01:27 · Score: 1

we all know how well pixel and askii art works on slashdot.
middle fingers galore!

was popular in Ireland too by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 21:22 · Score: 0

I used it to see if there was anything worth watching on TV. I'm not sure if the Irish TV stations still have teletext - they might.
My Dad used it to check horse racing, my Brother, sports results... Everybody in our family used it for something.

Re:was popular in Ireland too by cianduffy · 2012-10-24 04:36 · Score: 1

RTE has Aertel which was on the analogue services until they closed this morning, and is still available as a DVB insert on satellite (and possibly digital terrestrial - it was, but they suggested they'd turn it off too).

They also have the exact same data and page numbers in an MHEG5 app and a web interface to it also:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/100-1.html

Don't think its that popular anymore, but it was common to see pubs leave 150 (lotto results) or the rotating football results page (222? I think?) up on a TV in the corner to save staff being asked the same questions over and over or being asked to change channel.

GoodyBye Irish t'Internet by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 21:50 · Score: 0

What was the game you couple play on it? The Gorilla quiz thing?

Re:Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-23 22:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

What does it cost to keep it alive? Is it worth the money to shut off people who will never use internet

You're not really paying attention are you? All working UK TVs** now have digital text, which is not really any more difficult to use that CEEFAX for non-internet users; the main index page numbers are even the same on digital text as they were on CEEFAX. Noboby has been 'shut off'.

**With a few exceptions in cheap hotels etc., can't be bothered to explain why.

Teletext by BBC by andersh · 2012-10-23 22:32 · Score: 1

Ceefax was Teletext.

Teletext (or "broadcast teletext") is a television information retrieval service developed in the United Kingdom in the early 1970s. It offers a range of text-based information, typically including national, international and sporting news, weather and TV schedules. Subtitle (or closed captioning) information is also transmitted in the teletext signal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext

Re:Good Riddance by KDR_11k · 2012-10-23 22:47 · Score: 1

Since we don't have Ceefax here I only have experience with Teletext but from what I see old people only use it when they don't have a TV program guide at hand. Also it's so bloated with ads for dubious phone services these days that it's really worthless except as a way of getting subtitles. A newspaper is more detailed, comfier and more convenient (because portable) and often comes with a TV guide as well. And that TV guide covers all channels, not just the one you've called the Teletext up on.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Re:Good Riddance by tehcyder · 2012-10-23 23:19 · Score: 2

Now that CEEFAX is dead, modern services like Twitter and Tumblr can help enrich our lives with more up to date, if slightly editorialized, news.

Ceefax news came from the BBC and could be believed. The brainless mind wank that comprises most of twitter is just digital wallpaper.

--
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it

Re:Good Riddance by slim · 2012-10-23 23:48 · Score: 1

Ceefax news came from the BBC and could be believed. The brainless mind wank that comprises most of twitter is just digital wallpaper.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews

Re:Good Riddance by jonbryce · 2012-10-24 00:00 · Score: 2

CEEFAX has been switched off because analogue TV has been switched off. Anyone with a digital TV can get a very similar service on BBC Red Button, and anyone without a digital TV doesn't have TV anymore.

A life without Teletext? (Text-TV) by Spectrumanalyzer · 2012-10-24 00:15 · Score: 1

I can't imagine it.

Teletext has ONE big advantage over just about everything, including internet:

- It's uncluttered news and info.

Missed the news on TV when you come home? Press Teletext - and you're informed in SECONDS.
Even the internet can't provide that. Slow browsing, hardly ever instant even with 30 Mbit speeds, too much flash-banner ads, having to browse through endless pages of drivel.

Text tv is short, direct, and right there with all the news that matter.
The UK people must be in shock to lose such an invaluable service.

Thankfully we still have it.

It was the *first* digital consumer service by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 00:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

The BBC has moved to digital "teletext"

Obligatory rant. As I commented on the BBC site, despite being piggybacked onto the analogue TV signal, old-style Teletext itself is- and always was- a digital service.

This matters not simply because it was digital, but more importantly because it was probably the first digital service- or digital anything!- aimed at the consumer market, at least in the UK.

And despite all the nostalgic ramblings, it has hardly been given any credit for what is probably its most significant aspect. Years before CDs came out, even before even the Apple II and friends launched the personal computer (and when the closest thing to a home computer was the Altair 8800), Teletext was digital and providing information on demand.

I don't feel the need to defend its shortcomings by modern standards- of course it's dated and basic, it's over 35 bloody years old and came out when even the 1 KB of memory needed to store a page would have been expensive. However, it was a fantastic achievement at the time and still heralded the digital age, however primitive it looks today. And it hacks me off that almost no-one is giving it credit in that area.

Re:It was the *first* digital consumer service by RoboJ1M · 2012-10-24 01:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

Yeah I hate it when they do that. Not only was it digital, it was interactive as well.
Fast-text (the coloured buttons) even gave you hyper links.
Hell, you could download software to your home computer over it!
There were digital publications (Digitizer!! 8D)
There were interactive games (Bamboozle!)
There was even at one point a chat room (You had to phone up and type in your message using, I think, SMS style text input)
Finally, I remember voice controlled teletext. You phoned up, set it up, browsed to one of the sub pages, spoke into the phone and the right page turned up on the screen.
All that by the early 90s.
Re:It was the *first* digital consumer service by RoboJ1M · 2012-10-24 01:08 · Score: 2

Forgot PDC, which started/stopped the VCR when you wanted something recorded, even keeping up with schedule changes.
There was even a system that allowed you to select programs off of an EPG and the VCR would record them for you.
So we had Tivo too.
Re:It was the *first* digital consumer service by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 03:22 · Score: 0

I think there's the danger of cheapening Teletext's very real achievements by overstating things. The system itself was never truly "interactive" in the two-way sense of the Internet; the interactive games IIRC essentially used the "reveal" functionality (for hidden text) and similar to let you play, but didn't send anything back. The other forms of interactivity aren't technically part of the Teletext system itself, but add-ons using other media (technically you could say that sending a letter through the post and getting it posted counted as being "two way interactivity"... but I wouldn't!).
That said, the final two were somewhat interesting, though you could implement an "interactive" chat-room via (regular, one-way) television in a similar manner, and I assume that the "speak into the phone" thing arranged for the requested page to be sent as a regular sub-page via spare capacity. Interesting trick, but not a fundamental change to the nature of Teletext. I didn't know that PDC (programme delivery control) used Teletext, though.
Re:It was the *first* digital consumer service by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 05:28 · Score: 0

Yeah I know, it's only really a one way system. But at the time it was really cool. This was, what, 20 years ago?
You could read last night's chat room and there even this weird micro community on there.
Also Digitizer's Mr Biffo is a legend.
Re:It was the *first* digital consumer service by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 05:34 · Score: 0

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitiser

Goodbye, cruel world? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 00:35 · Score: 0

"Its final broadcast signed off with, 'Goodbye, cruel world.'"

No, it didn't. The screenshot on that page of the final CeeFax message is clearly labelled an "unofficial mock up". I'm really surprised that no-one has mentioned this yet in the 100+ comments here...

No reason to stop playing... by Gordonjcp · 2012-10-24 00:38 · Score: 1

Get an amateur radio licence, and build your own encoder:

http://www.qsl.net/zl1vfo/teletext.htm

Re:No reason to stop playing... by squiggleslash · 2012-10-24 02:05 · Score: 1

Back when I used an Amiga, I always wondered if it was capable of generating a valid teletext signal, given it had tremendous versitility in terms of accessing overscan and generating TV signals. If I'd had the specs...

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:No reason to stop playing... by Gordonjcp · 2012-10-24 02:15 · Score: 1

One of the great things about the Internet is now we have easy access to stuff like the teletext spec - stuff that was always public, just really hard to find. And when you did find it, most of it was in Dutch.

Re:Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 01:02 · Score: 0

correction: "Anyone IN THE UK with a digital TV can get a very similar service on BBC Red Button".
viewers elsewhere in Europe cannot access that service.

Re: 38 years by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 01:20 · Score: 0

Really, 38 years is a pretty good run. MS is panicking because WinXP is some 12 years old now. (and Win 2000 is 13ish years old, and little before that matters.)

actual ending sequence here... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 01:26 · Score: 0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20032882

Re:Good Riddance by tibit · 2012-10-24 02:38 · Score: 1

The brainless mind wank that comprises most of twitter is just digital wallpaper.

That's like saying that eBay sucks because the last seller ripped you off. I hope you see the error of your ways. Hint: twitter is just the facilitator. The content comes from, well, wherever you choose it to come from. If you read tabloids, must you also complain about them all the time?

--
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.

Re:People forget how advanced teletxt was for the by clickclickdrone · 2012-10-24 02:56 · Score: 1

>not a set top box!
Actually, it was intially. A great big box you could probably put your telly on rather than vice versa. I'm struggling to remember who made the early ones - they had one at the science museum. It wasn't a firm that usually sold to the public, more commercial/education as I remember.

--
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil

Re:Good Riddance by wonkey_monkey · 2012-10-24 04:02 · Score: 1

Also it's so bloated with ads for dubious phone services these days that it's really worthless except as a way of getting subtitles.

No ads on CEEFAX.

And that TV guide covers all channels, not just the one you've called the Teletext up on.

CEEFAX always had full listings for all of the analogue channels, and I think it had them for digital channels as well.

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.

Re:People forget how advanced teletxt was for the by houghi · 2012-10-24 04:39 · Score: 1

The disadvantage I thought it had was that there was no caching.
Changing channels and you would lose the information. looking at multiple pages? Wait till the one you want.

Having it cached would have made it so much nicer and the feeling so much more instantaneous.

What I liked about it was that they were forced to use a limited amount of characters to give you information, so you would only get the real information on the news pages.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

Post inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 06:39 · Score: 0

The "goodbye, cruel world" message was a fake mock-up (and the article even says as much).

Other channels did same stuff out side of the UK by Joe_Dragon · 2012-10-24 07:17 · Score: 1

Other channels did some of the same stuff out side of the UK

and we even had the same thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8fvC6mdAK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhzMXXrkQ9M

http://www.jtl.us/wp/?p=386

later on cable channels showed stuff like this in down time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zmZ5OY-yaM

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Sports+Plus+Network&oq=Sports+Plus+Network&gs_l=youtube.3..0.1652.2295.0.2449.2.2.0.0.0.0.71.134.2.2.0...0.0...1ac.1.aTnA7Od_qUw

We Still have weatherscan and local on the 8's

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=weatherscan

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=local+on+the+8's

and don't for get the old prevue channel / EPG Channel that was good before tv guide took over. Yes it used to crash a lot as well.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=prevue+channel&oq=prevue+channel&gs_l=youtube.3..35i39l2j0l8.1922.2073.0.2266.2.2.0.0.0.0.76.144.2.2.0...0.0...1ac.1.xS-if6uHHik

That's the last straw!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-24 09:46 · Score: 0

I'm out too...good-bye, cruel world!

Bit of background on the TeleText standard by fiddlesticks · 2012-10-24 09:59 · Score: 2

This [Teletext/Cx, branded as CeeFax for consumers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext%5D is (one of the many) the standard that my department (BBC R&D) helped invent - http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1975_12.shtml

I was a baby then but nowadays we still used the standard to test the next-gen DTV aerial signal 25 years on http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP160.pdf)

I was part of the team that moved the 'red button' services across to use same page numbers (with an extra digit prepended for content not available on analogue TV) - my former workmate Andrew wrote about this here http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pressred/2009/05/assigningpagenumbers.shtml

Cx was always great for speedy updating, but the client (journalist) software was clunky. It did help the BBC learn the importance of writing concise summaries for textual viewing many years ago (which was very helpful when the Web came along)

It was always *digital* but TX-d on analogue circuits. I'll miss it, but the info there is still available, and guess what? Life moves on. > 98% of UK people have digital TV now and the switchover went well. Still free at point of reception, still advert-free.

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http://milkshake.dexy.org

Re:Good Riddance by Peil · 2012-10-24 22:08 · Score: 1

Viewers in Europe don't pay for it and are not the intended target audience.

BBC should be ashamed by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2012-10-25 06:37 · Score: 1

Seems the global warming has increased during the history of the use CEEFAX thus obviously according to the hard hitting investigation done by BBC reporters, CEEFAX caused global warming. I am glad they finally stopped this carbon producing service.

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I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.

Re:Good Riddance by trigpoint · 2012-10-25 08:28 · Score: 1

And that TV guide covers all channels, not just the one you've called the Teletext up on.

CEEFAX always had full listings for all of the analogue channels, and I think it had them for digital channels as well.

I feel sure that in the early days CEEFAX only carried BBC programme details, and ORACLE only ITV programme details. There were no all channel TV guides until 1991, just the Radio Times (BBC) and TV Times(ITV). Newspapers had all channels, but only a day at a time. For many people the Christmas/New Year double issues of Radio Times and TV Times were an annual event.

Re:Good Riddance by wonkey_monkey · 2012-10-25 09:09 · Score: 1

For many people the Christmas/New Year double issues of Radio Times and TV Times were an annual event.

What were they for the rest of the people? :S

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systemd is Roko's Basilisk.

Re:Good Riddance by Tore+S+B · 2012-10-26 00:34 · Score: 1

No, would be like saying eBay sucks because most sellers rip you off.

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toresbe

Re:Good Riddance by EasyTarget · 2012-10-31 22:17 · Score: 1

Viewers in Europe don't pay for it and are not the intended target audience.

BZZT: viewers in Europe absolutely do pay to see the BBC.

It is generally available on our cable/satellite services, and the cable and satellite providers pay a fee to the BBC for the right to rebroadcast.

Not as huge (per person) as UK licence payers fees; but as you say, we are not the intended audience (and of course, the vast majority of people getting it that way have little interest in watching it and/or cannot speak English anyway).

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"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes

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BBC Turns Off CEEFAX Service After 38 Years

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