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Ask Slashdot: Is Going To a Technical College Worth It?

Posted by samzenpus on from the cash-in-cash-out dept.

First time accepted submitter blandcramration writes "I have recently decided to further my education with a technical school associates degree. I am a first quarter student in my third week as an IT student. I have taught myself Python and have been working with computers for over 10 years. We've been learning C++ and though my instructor appears to know how to program, he doesn't really understand the procedure behind the veil, so to speak. In a traditional learning environment, I would rather learn everything about the computer process rather than fiddle around with something until I figure out how it works. I can do that on my own. I think the real issue is I'm not feeling challenged enough and I'm paying through the nose to go to school here. Am I even going to be able to land a decent job, or should I just take a few classes here and move on to a traditional college and get a computer science degree? I'm much more interested in an approach to computer science like From NAND to Tetris but I feel as if I should get a degree in something. What are your thoughts?"

15 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. School is worthless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My two centavos:

    No, no, and hell no. A technical college is likely not certified, so you will end up with a worthless paper in "fiber optics" or "homeland security" as a major... and have absolutely zero chances of job placement... coupled with student loans that are rapidly accruing interest which can't be discharged, EVER, through bankruptcy. Even a guy gambling his wages away and running up credit card debt can dump that stuff off at the bankruptcy court and walk away a free man.

    There used to be a pact: Students would put up with professors and deal with the "game" of getting an education. Once you graduated, then the other part of the deal is that you land a meaningful job, pay your loans back in a couple years, and actually have a meaningful career.

    Not any more. The "good" jobs are either owned by people there for 10+ years, or there is a H-1B having them. Management is usually whom is good at the golf course. The ONLY chance of getting anything meaningful these days is an internship where you have to behave like your job interview best for six months so you have a shot at something when you graduate college.

    I'd do some market research. A coder or developer is like being a meat packer or a textile worker -- was a good job, now is available for pennies on the dollar from offshore outsourcers. You can pay Tata $10,000 and get more coding done for your dollar than you can with five senior devs that run 100 grand apiece... and to boot, you don't have to deal with the payroll taxes. You also get an actual guarantee of code working as well.

    Want to run the school game? Get your B. S. and hit the law schools. Pass the bar, and you have a career for life. You would have to commit a felony or get disbarred. Once you have your bar membership, unemployment is up to you. No, you might not get the Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe senior partner, but you will always have somewhere at some company that is 9-5 and full benefits.

    Avoid trade colleges like the plague. They teach you nothing viable, and just take your money... and you have zero prospects of work afterwards.

    1. Re:School is worthless... by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 5, Informative

      That depends on whether it's a public or private technical college.

      Public technical colleges often can transfer to public universities because they're likewise accredited, and they have programs in place to accept those credits.

      Private also depends, since many of those are also accredited. But they may not have transfer programs in place.

      --
      If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
    2. Re:School is worthless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Go to law school" has been the advice du jour for the past decade+, and the result is a saturated market. I can't speak to trade schools, but racking up $50-100K in loans to do an undergrad and a JD to enter a market where you're looking at competing with 100 other JDs for a $30K per year job does not strike me as good advice.

      Unless, of course, you're looking to go into intellectual property and be a patent attorney, but that requires you to sell your soul to the worst system of corporate control over humanity in existence, so I'm assuming that option is off the books.

    3. Re:School is worthless... by Motard · · Score: 5, Interesting

      'School' is neither worthless or priceless, but consider your (short term and long term) goals carefully.

      Technical schools might get you in the door at a company, but will never, in and of itself, lift you far above that.

      I think one (a self starter such as yourself) could do just as well by offering their services for free. Think of it as a series of self styled apprenticeships. Just be honest: "I don't have the resources to get myself a proper degree, but I am passionate about my craft and feel confident that I can help your firm if only I can get some real world experience...."

      This will work especially well at a local business (local bank, real estate agency, etc). Preferably one that has not developed an entrenched IT Dept (who will be suspicious of young upstarts).

      You may or may not be paid, but at least you won't be paying. And you'll be developing a resume - something virtually no 4 year student has.

      And if you do get to join a company as a proper employee, you can avail yourself of their tuition reimbursement program. Then, when you do get your degree there is an inherent expectation that it is valuable and should be rewarded.

    4. Re:School is worthless... by Jeff- · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This AC is mostly nonsense in regards to the state of the industry. I agree about technical colleges though.

      Companies would love to hire locally rather than H1B if there was talent. Blaming H1B is racist scapegoating. There are plenty of programmers out there. There aren't plenty of good programmers. If you learn the same web scripting language as everyone else and expect to make 6 figures right out of school you're in for a surprise. However, there are a LOT of companies who are hiring near 6 figures for talent immediately out of a 4 year program.

      If you spend your 4 years writing only those programs assigned to you I'm sure it is difficult to find a good job. However, if you take an interest in opensource, do a good internship, or show any capability outside of filling in the last 1/10th of the program that your professor left blank for you, you'll have no trouble getting a job in today's market. What you get out of it is proportional to what you get in though. You can't just skate through and expect someone to hand you a pile of money. You're not entitled to anything just because you went through the motions and did what was laid out in front of you. You're competing with all of the other people who did the same, including those in other countries.

      The crack at management is also unfounded. Everyone seems to know examples of mismanagement which lead to the failure of companies and the dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement of employees. Why then is it so hard to conceive that it is a difficult job that few people excel at? There are definitely good managers out there who can extract work from their reports at a higher level of satisfaction. You should learn to spot them and maneuver onto their teams at your earliest opportunity.

    5. Re:School is worthless... by cruachan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure you can pay Tata $10,000 - you just end up with poor bug-ridden code thrown together with the minimal amount of rigor to meet whatever specification you sent. Even if your offshore coders speak the same language they don't understand your culture and what you get isn't what you want.

      I've been a developer for nearly 30 years, 10 years ago I was getting a little worried about the offshore developers - not anymore, I make quite a nice living charging people European rates to redevelop systems properly they've tried to get done for next to nothing offshore.

      Of course there are some success stories, but generally any potential client who thinks off-shoring development is a good idea is not one you want as a client.

    6. Re:School is worthless... by camperdave · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm making six figures too; it's just that the first couple are zeros.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    7. Re:School is worthless... by snowraver1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I also went to a technical college (public). I also did not get laid.

      I didn't really learn a whole lot, but it wasn't too expensive. I think it was about 2k per semester. I would bet money that most of the people in that class are not in the field today. They just weren't IT people.

      I got super lucky and landed an entry level Help Desk job at a great company. I made 28.5k, plus a 1k non-guaranteed annual bonus. I was 21 and it was way more then I had ever made before, so I was thrilled. Two years later, we were outsourced. Most people lost their job, but I was kept and upgraded to application support. From there, I thought I would become a networking guy, so I got my CCNA. I didn't get into networking.

      I stayed there for a bit, and 3 years later the company wanted to replace the application that i was supporting. I knew the most about it, so I became part of the project team. We chose the vender and I started making it all work (with the help of others). Now, it looks like I might become a developer. I now, with the same company, make almost 3 times what I did when I started.

      Back to the school. I could not have got my job without the piece of paper. I don't even know where my diploma is now though. The paper may get your foot in the door, but you are on your own from there.

      I love my job. I am very fortunate. This is what I do:

      Be positive. No one likes a negative nancy.
      Be willing. Don't be lazy.
      Don't get taken advantage of. Don't be a shit disturber either. Be positive.
      Don't blame other people. Just fix problems.
      And most importantly, fix problems.

      Why did I say that most of my class didn't make it in IT? They weren't problem solvers. Either you are or you aren't. It drives me crazy when I don't 'get' a problem. I obsess over it until either I solve it, or something else makes me forget.

      Businesses want someone that 'gets shit done'. Usually, solving problems fits into that category.

      You sound motivated, and smart enough to dive in to the details to understand a system. That is what will make or break your career. Get the paper, find an entry level job, fix shit, be positive. It worked for me.

      Failure comes as passion goes. Remember that.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    8. Re:School is worthless... by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Blaming H1B is racist scapegoating.

      Nope. It's not racism. The H1B creates an underclass. That underlcass is in a weak bargaining position. This drives down wages. THAT is why most companies seek out H1B candidates.

      It's purely a matter of dollars an cents.

      There are a few valid H1B's out there in computing. You won't find them working IT jobs though since IT is pretty generic and mundane crap.

      Most H1Bs are hired as scab labor to drive wages down. It has nothing to do wtih "racism".

      An Indian with a green card is not helping create an underclass.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    9. Re:School is worthless... by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Funny

      You get paid in Octal?

    10. Re:School is worthless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Avoid trade colleges like the plague. They teach you nothing viable, and just take your money... and you have zero prospects of work afterwards.

      BULLSHIT. I can't speak for every instance, but YES, technical schools can matter. Why?

      I currently attend a technical school in Oklahoma. OSUIT. And I am learning something that is a lost art- Watchmaking.

      There is no place in the US other than currently about 4 schools, less than 35 students total across all of them, that are learning
      traditional hand-skills watchmaking, right now. I am one of those 35 or so people. 35 or so, in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES.

      I have a B.A. in Japanese Language & Literature from the University of Pittsburgh, in PA, and have worked abroad. I have even gone
      to college in Japan. So I have attended a "traditional" university in the US, a private university in Japan, and now a technical school in the US.

      Despite high intelligence, I could have studied on my own for 30 more years and not gotten to the high skill level as a watchmaker I am at now-
      without going to a damn good technical college. OSUIT is in the middle of nowhere in Oklahoma, but by damn this is a good technical school.

      It depends on your degree. If you are getting a now dime-a-dozen IT degree, then yes, they might be worthless. And if you think I no nothing about IT,
      I used to build computers, and run a dual boot XP/Ubuntu setup, XP for 3D CAD engineering design. Self taught for the most part in Linux. Still it is
      Ubuntu, so yeah, I know, I'm not hot shit or anything.

      But if you are going for a specialized technical field (and it doesn't get more specialized than watchmaking- which has no further branches from it, unlike
      IT specializations), then a GOOD technical school is well worth the money. And I have people already offering me jobs, even once chase me down off
      the street to do so, and I haven't even left school yet. I will graduate to be within the top 5-10% in skill of all the watchmakers in the US, because of the
      ridiculously intense program here, and the incredibly skilled watchmakers that are my professors. We have had people go to work directly for Patek Phillipe.
      From school. And this is a TECHNICAL SCHOOL.

      So, in conclusion, you are a cloistered person, with no real experience behind what you say. I have seen it all at this point, and I think you are talking out
      of your ass, sir.

    11. Re:School is worthless... by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You realize that a company can't accept that offer, right? They'd see their company sued into oblivion. They have to pay at least minimum wage. Nor would any company ever respect someone willing to make an offer like that.

      His best bet is to get a real degree. Work nights, work weekends. Apply to every scholarship and form of financial aid he can find. You *can* get a job in programming without one, but it will be a shit job at a bad company that's lowballing wages. And you'll be there for most of a decade, because nobody who isn't looking for minimum skill cogs is going to hire someone without a degree or 4-5 years experience. The odds they don't know what he's doing are far too great, and a programmer who doesn't know what he's doing will cost them more (via wasting senior talents time) than they gain.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  2. You'd be better served at a Community College by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For the money, an Associate's Degree at a Community College would impress me more than an ITT degree, and it would cost you a lot less. At a CC you can study CS or IT from people who know their subjects well, and have a passion to teach.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that a lot can be learned from a technical college, and I've met quite a few people who have taught there and know what they're doing, but bang-for-your-buck can 't be beaten at a Community College.

    --
    by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    1. Re:You'd be better served at a Community College by houstonbofh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I had a chance to go through a lot of resumes recently, and the few with a community college degree did stand out. Better than ITT, and a CC with a University is better to me than University alone. If only because most of them have been working in the field part time while at a University...

  3. Law school, really? by thesameguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unemployment amongst recent law school graduates is the worst it's been in history, and there is no sign of that changing. I've worked in the legal industry for a long time now, and it's ugly. I wouldn't wanna be someone with a law school loan right now. http://chronicle.com/article/Unemployment-Among-Recent-Law/132189/ etc.