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Ask Slashdot: Is Going To a Technical College Worth It?
First time accepted submitter blandcramration writes "I have recently decided to further my education with a technical school associates degree. I am a first quarter student in my third week as an IT student. I have taught myself Python and have been working with computers for over 10 years. We've been learning C++ and though my instructor appears to know how to program, he doesn't really understand the procedure behind the veil, so to speak. In a traditional learning environment, I would rather learn everything about the computer process rather than fiddle around with something until I figure out how it works. I can do that on my own. I think the real issue is I'm not feeling challenged enough and I'm paying through the nose to go to school here. Am I even going to be able to land a decent job, or should I just take a few classes here and move on to a traditional college and get a computer science degree? I'm much more interested in an approach to computer science like From NAND to Tetris but I feel as if I should get a degree in something. What are your thoughts?"
My two centavos:
No, no, and hell no. A technical college is likely not certified, so you will end up with a worthless paper in "fiber optics" or "homeland security" as a major... and have absolutely zero chances of job placement... coupled with student loans that are rapidly accruing interest which can't be discharged, EVER, through bankruptcy. Even a guy gambling his wages away and running up credit card debt can dump that stuff off at the bankruptcy court and walk away a free man.
There used to be a pact: Students would put up with professors and deal with the "game" of getting an education. Once you graduated, then the other part of the deal is that you land a meaningful job, pay your loans back in a couple years, and actually have a meaningful career.
Not any more. The "good" jobs are either owned by people there for 10+ years, or there is a H-1B having them. Management is usually whom is good at the golf course. The ONLY chance of getting anything meaningful these days is an internship where you have to behave like your job interview best for six months so you have a shot at something when you graduate college.
I'd do some market research. A coder or developer is like being a meat packer or a textile worker -- was a good job, now is available for pennies on the dollar from offshore outsourcers. You can pay Tata $10,000 and get more coding done for your dollar than you can with five senior devs that run 100 grand apiece... and to boot, you don't have to deal with the payroll taxes. You also get an actual guarantee of code working as well.
Want to run the school game? Get your B. S. and hit the law schools. Pass the bar, and you have a career for life. You would have to commit a felony or get disbarred. Once you have your bar membership, unemployment is up to you. No, you might not get the Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe senior partner, but you will always have somewhere at some company that is 9-5 and full benefits.
Avoid trade colleges like the plague. They teach you nothing viable, and just take your money... and you have zero prospects of work afterwards.
Sounds to me like you're more interested in _Computer Science_ than programming or "IT".
Maybe you need to reconsider the program you are in, or attend a more serious education institution?
For the money, an Associate's Degree at a Community College would impress me more than an ITT degree, and it would cost you a lot less. At a CC you can study CS or IT from people who know their subjects well, and have a passion to teach.
Don't get me wrong, I think that a lot can be learned from a technical college, and I've met quite a few people who have taught there and know what they're doing, but bang-for-your-buck can 't be beaten at a Community College.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
It's very likely that it will cost the same or less and will lead to more gainful employeement later.
The point of all the extra non-computer science classes is to teach you how to learn and process new material.
Having a 4 year degree from an accredited and respected school will also serve you well.
Here comes the rub... Most start-ups and even smaller mid-sizes might not care or hold it against you but then if you can impress them now why go to school at all?
Just my two cents from a guy works in the fortune 200. Right or wrong I see good people held back by lack of a 4 year degree all the time.
I'm always amused at the people working for me who command ridiculous (eg, six figure) salaries with absolutely no college education whatsoever, who are for some godforsaken reason impressed with my completely useless A.A.S. in Computer Information Systems.
But...
technical school associates degree
Go with an actual community college rather than a "technical school".
Or consider ignoring the degree crap altogether. Ten years, you say - do you have actual job experience? If not, a degree isn't a bad thing. If you do, it quickly becomes useless, especially if you learn that networking (as in, person to person social stupidity) is far, far more important than any actual talent at doing your job. :p (As horrible as it is - you can always learn on the job, if you have any skill whatsoever.)
I went to a technical college (state accredited, so it counts as a community college) directly after high school, as an alternative to the pricey 4-year universities. I earned an Associate of Applied Science in Networking in the first two years, and an Associate of Applied Science in Telecommunications with one more year of classes, due to overlap in the two programs. Immediately after graduation, I was hired at a nearby university for an open position with their IT team. They interviewed multiple people for the spot, ranging from next to no education to Bachelor's degrees. I was hired immediately after my interview. Granted, this is an entry-level position, but I'm still not necessarily the most impressive candidate.
In short, it all depends on where you want to go with the schooling you take. In the end, it's still a pretty piece of paper saying how much class you sat through, not a direct expression of what you know.
- and it's stuff you could do on your own - then it's already not worth it. If you're capable of learning it on your, which it seems you are, then my suggestion would be to put that money toward self-teaching, and then taking certification tests. No one will give a rat's ass that you have an associate's degree in IT from a for-profit technical school, but they'll drool all over your resume if you put just one semester's worth of tuition towards stuff like the CCNA or the MCSA.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
The Nand2Tetris is a great resource and I am working through it myself. I wish there was something like this available when I started college 20 years ago. The start of our instruction centered around a variable, then loops, data types, etc. I assume it's because students could related to variables through Algebra. It worked well enough though.
Don't go to a technical school. Go to a state sponsored 4 year university. They're cheaper, better value, and your professors, if you impress them, have some really good in's into hiring companies.
Get your foundation there. Understand *why* companies are willing to pay you 6 figures. Understand the value of scalability and maintainability. Understand how to build a proper ERD. Understand your data structures and why coding something one way is inefficient and doing it another way will make it 1000 times faster. Become an engineer, not a mechanic.
If you want to learn the behind the scenes parts of the language and the computer, get a BS in CS or CE. It will take a few more years, but your earning potential will be much higher than with a two year degree. You can learn all of that on your own, but it is difficult, and that piece of paper will get your resume in the door more easily than trying to explain autodidacticism to an HR drone.
But never stop learning, whether it be through tinkering, online stuff like the NAND-Tetris course, or formal, for-credit courses.
Unemployment amongst recent law school graduates is the worst it's been in history, and there is no sign of that changing. I've worked in the legal industry for a long time now, and it's ugly. I wouldn't wanna be someone with a law school loan right now. http://chronicle.com/article/Unemployment-Among-Recent-Law/132189/ etc.
It's really rare to go to a technical college for CS-related stuff and have it work out. The entire concept has been sullied beyond redemption by the ITT's and Devry's of the world. The best bet, money wise, it to take your first 2 years at community college, get all your prereqs like History and Calculus and CS101 out of the way for cheap. Then transfer to a traditional state 4-year for the last two years, even if its just a satellite campus. It's going to be much more expensive, and more challenging than CC, but you will hopefully end up with knowledgeable professors right when you need them, and after 50% of the class has dropped for lack of interest or plain immaturity. Also do your best to work with the school and line up an internship during your summer break between 3rd and 4th year. You'll have a degree that helps your resume instead of hinders it, a token amount of real world experience, and spend a bit over half as much money as just going straight to the 4-year.
--The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. --Tycho Brahe (Penny Arcade)
Avoid any school with a learn by doing methodology. Make sure they teach the theory before you do something.
Also avoid any school that is totally abstract and doesn't give you practical training. As long as you avoid those two extremes you will be fine.
Seriously, though, if you know enough to recognize that you aren't getting the most thorough education, then you are good enough to go to a real 4-year college.
I'm a high school drop out with a 6 figure income as a software developer.
The overall quality of instruction and graduates in many of these tech schools is often pretty low. Technical College not only costs more than Community College, but is an indication that you didn't have the academic chops to get through Community College. I can tell you how I would stack my resume pile if I was hiring and all that hr was providing was a brief summary: Experience+College, Experience (no degree), Self-taught limited experience, College Grad (no experience), Technical Trade School, No apparent Qualifications. Self study, some certifications, and anything you can do to demonstrate competency will put you ahead of the Trade School Graduate and at least equal to the no-experience college grad. Do it on your own or go to a legitimate college that fits your budget.
minds, get scrambled like eggs, abused and erased. Hard Hearted Alice is who you want to see.
Do a great job where you are that shows you can tackle a 2 year project and achieve great results.
Nose your way into doing extracurricular activity you are interested in with a professor or private programming somehow, someway.
You will never stop learning, and it is impossible to get more than a good introduction in 2-4 years so go for it. You never know where you will eventually wind up, so get everything you can in training at school.
I personally went that path so I can tell you that If you have better options then take the better option. However, where I lived 15 years ago if you wanted a Tech degree of any value you wouldn't have any real options. I took the tech school path only because the only real College that I could afford locally had a horrible reputation at putting out CS Majors. They were in the process of building a new Engineering department and I wasn't interested in being apart of their transition from a bad department to a good department. So I went to the Local ITT school only so I could get a piece of paper saying I could do the things I could already do. If I were to do it again I would actually choose the Local College and get a real CS degree, but at the time I wouldn't touch that school with a 10 foot poll.
A technical college is good if you want to pick up a skilled trade, but from what you said in your post it might be better to go to a traditional college, community or otherwise. As far as getting a job goes, you need to consider the reputation of the school that you graduate from because that is something many companies consider when reviewing applicants. A good way to impress prospective employers as a CS or IT grad is to have some tangible project to tell them about or better yet show them.
No reason for books to be 200+ and wasteful courses for you to take and paying $50k+ for piece of paper. I think they are all ridiculous! Some tech schools aren't that bad, make sure they are credited so you can transfer credits if needed. If your looking for a trade like Welding, Culinary, etc you get a degree at the end and have transferrable credits and cheaper than other schools i see no problem with Tech schools.
Just make sure that the credits at the Community College will be accepted at university. It would be a good idea to contact some of the Universities you make wish to go to complete your 4yr degree to confirm they will accept class credits from an Associate\Community College. Good idea to seek an internship (early and often if you can) so you can include some work experience when you finish up. Avoid accumulating Student load Debt. It will eat you alive later on.
Another idea might be to write apps that are published on the Appstore. This will provide you some experience with modern technology and perhaps some income.
I graduated with a CS degree and I had to self teach myself C/C++, SQL, etc because the school didn't offer classes for them. The college taught a bunch of outdated technologies (ie mainframe assembly, Obscure Mainframe languages, Pascal) mostly because the professors were dinosaurs and didn't want to bother updating their classes. So don't be surprise if you have similar experiences. You go to college to get a piece of paper, and little that learn can be applied to a real job. But the piece of paper will open doors. Most HR depts toss resumes that don't list a 4yr degree for Technical jobs (ie CS, EE, ME, etc).
Consider that because technology is ever changing you will need to self-teach yourself for your entire working career. You either continue to learn, or you become an unemployable dinosaur!
I can't imagine a Public Technical School being that expensive. I have friends that earn 90K+ (Senior SQL Server DBA) and 115K+ (Senior Network Engineer) that both attended an inexpensive Technical College for Associate Degrees in I.T. specific areas. Both had technical certificates (MCDBA at one point, A+,Network+ for the DBA/Cisco for the Network Engineer) prior to obtaining Associates Degrees. The Network Engineer's employers have paid for additional vendor specific certificates for him. I attended an inexpensive Public University in Alabama and have a B.S. in Business Admin (M.I.S major) and earn 90K+ as a Senior SQL Server DBA. We all live in areas of the Southeast U.S. where the cost of living isn't that expensive. I worked for a very large global website where at least 2 of the Directors was a self-trained programmers that had no formal education prior to joining the company as programmers. The easiest route is to attend a traditional University and an accredited public one to keep cost down if you have no experience otherwise in a career field. However some of the best and brightest I have worked with developed an urge to teach themselves more about information technology and talked their way into entry level positions (often Help Desk) at I.T. companies before pursuing any formal education.
1. sex
2. networking with other people who will be in your profession (try not to mix with #1)
3. learning something from a genuine authority on a subject (try not to mix with #1)
4. learning something that is hard to teach to yourself (music performance, foreign languages)
If you are having trouble finding a job, it is probably where you live or your soft/social skills.
A little comp sci theory is a good companion to the stuff (you say) you already know, but it can be self-teachable.
sit down and set some goals. If you want to get a job somewhere find out what they are looking for. If you want to start a business figure out what you need to know to do that.
Usually everything taught at school comes from books, you might try reading a few.
Get your generals out of the way at a community college or similar but be SURE the credits transfer to THE four year college you want to attend.
This will save you thousands of dollars and you end up getting your BA or BS from the school you wanted.
Think about marketing. Huge opportunities for growth positions and most marketing departments have a tight relationship with their corporate purse holders.
Have to give the OP that.
Check the box. Pick an easy major and get it done. Take as many CLEP tests as you can. Ten years from now no one will care what you got your degree in, and unless you go to a top school no one will care where you went. Skip the for-profit schools and find a nice affordable state school.
Im currently 21 from age 18 leading up to now I have worked for major video game companies as well as Governments around the world all with just my High School Diploma and my skills aand experience, Although I was quite successful 2 life threatening diseases have come my way forcing me to return to school as I just cant work like I used to. I am working toward a 4 year degree while I work on getting healthier although it definitely feels like a waste of time when one is capable of the jobs, we just dont have that piece of paper saying we know how to memorize things. I had aspirations of joining the military and becoming an officer but with my diseases they would definitely not let me in. Now perhaps I may dedicate my life to academia and continue onwards to a masters and a doctorate in order to become a professor. Bottom line if you want to create things and make money then go get experience and just do it school will just hold you back.
...I think you have already answered your question. You are spending a lot of money on something that will bring you very little in return.
My priorities when choosing a candidate to hire in my company are:
So, as you can see, you would quickly sink to the bottom of my pre-interview list of candidates. It's highly unlikely you would be called in for an interview. It's not so much that you are getting a bad education at the tech college, but that education is going to be very generic and give you little-to-no idea of what working within an IS/IT group is really like. These schools air commercials during the soap opera and Dr. Phil time of day for a reason: they target unemployed people without any skill sets. These are your peers in a tech college. They cannot be turned into IT wizards in two years. At best, they can get a very simplistic overview of the career field that is about equal to what you can learn on your own, online, for free.
Sorry to be so harsh, but it's my reality, and I imagine the same for many other hiring managers in the field. We value experience over education (and certifications) because the most important consideration before we spend the time and money to recruit and hire someone is "do they have a career path here, long-term?" And the best way to gauge that is experience, plain and simple. That puts you in the age-old conundrum of "how do I get experience without a degree?"
And my answer to that is internships. Work for free. Volunteer your time for a community organization. Have mom or dad or Uncle Joe get you something entry-level in their company. Show me that you not only know your stuff, but have a work ethic, know what you want to do with your life, and can work with the wide range of personality types found in any given company. Talent is everywhere; the ones that get hired are the ones I feel will work hard, get along with their colleagues, and have ambition to work their way up to something other than what they are interviewing for.
:q!
It's obviously possible to get a job in the field without a degree of any sort, but a degree will help immensely. And if the "From NAND to Tetris" syllabus is accurate, a solid computer science degree is exactly what you want, and works for the education requirement of almost any job in the field that requires a bachelors degree (a few closer to the hardware end might want an E.E.).
While I was an engineer, mostly C++ systems/embedded, for over a decade, I had to take some time off to deal with family issues. I did some side projects during this time, but rarely full-time. I did take some additional college science classes, more for myself, during periods of time when I had a light load. So, four years out of work, and I might as well be starting off again. I have noticed some new things though.
There IS more of an interest in things that you do outside of the work day. I have seen companies that want to see something you developed, OSS projects you work on, maybe your github account name, an iPhone app you wrote, coding challenges that you participate in. While many companies do have four year requirements, they don't all. It comes up enough that I wish I had something along those lines myself. I do think some of this is more valuable when you are just starting out in place of formal job experience, but it does allow someone to view the quality of your work regardless. There are plenty of older developers entrenched in companies that write horrible code, and at least this is one way that you can show that you can shine.
The question I really have though, is this what you want to do, or are you doing it just because you think it will pay well? I code when I'm not working, and had taught myself how to program many years before ever worked in the field. If you have a passion for it, you'll learn more on your own than you ever will in class.
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
(Smash amp, burn guitar, take home the groupies)
I know that when it comes down to the wire, experience will win over school credentials 95% of the time, but the fact is that a lot of companies do want, if not *require* an undergraduate degree. I'm in a similar boat right now, in that I'm working full-time, and trying to teach myself programming on the side. While I can do it, the structure of having classes helps me quite significantly, and I'm likely to learn more and faster in school than on my own. (And slightly off topic, if anyone has any suggestions for online CS or similar degrees, I'd really love to hear about them. I'm tempted by Full Sail's mobile development degree, but the reviews I've seen lately aren't that promising.) So like people have said, a local public community college/university might be your best bet. Also an option, assuming you're young and semi-mobile is internships and the like. ArenaNet is offering an internship right now that pays about as much as my full time job. Or just get a low, grunt position at a company you can see yourself working at long-term, and tell and show them that you're dedicated and want to move up.
Having dealt with tata before, I can agree with that and more.
In addition to dealing with the shitty bug ridden code that barely meets spec.
You will actually spend more time and money writing the perfect specs, having Product Owners, Process Managers, Business Analysts, Architects, SMEs and Sr. Engineers working on getting the specs and design to a point where the software is actually usable, than you would if you just built the software in house.
Of course I've only been in the business for 15 years.
If you are going to go to the trouble of getting yourself a credential you might as well do it right. Don't dibble dabble. Seek out something that you know will be respected by future employers.
"Tech schools" aren't it.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
there is to much put on the degree part and not much on real skills.
Traditional college have a lot of fluff and filler and some CS tend to be very theory based with big skills gaps.
Traditional college sucks as well and 4 years is to long for tech.
IT needs a Badges system.
IT needs trades based learning not college where to spend years in a class room with little hands on skills.
Then you're going to run into what I did. I did college later on in my early 30's. By then I'd had well over a decade of experience in programming and the I.T. field.
So I just slogged through it and got the B.Sc.
Bill Gates thinks that current model of higher edu needs change.
http://chronicle.com/article/A-Conversation-With-Bill-Gates/132591/
Harper College to announce advanced manufacturing program
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-26/news/ct-met-new-harper-college-jobs-program-20120627_1_manufacturing-summit-harper-college-production-workers
now IT needs to have some thing like this.
Tech schools are tied down to the degree system and that makes have a bad rap and they don't get the respect they should get.
Now some community colleges can be very hit or miss but they are more open to drop in and non degree students
Hmm. Assembly you say? "We need to go deeper..." I'll just leave this here.
FTRMF:
WARNING
This software is ammunition for foot snipers. You will be editing the system's memory matrix directly, in real time, as it is running. It is strongly suggested you first use an artificial construct such as a Virtual Machine to familiarize yourself with using Hexabootable.
If you edit a program as it is running a hung CPU is the most likely, but not the worst thing that can happen by far; Editing a working stack is just as dangerous. Your firmware and/or hardware could be seriously damaged if you are not very careful in there...
The first page that appears (address 07C0:0000) contains the editor program that is displaying the text. Although some memory may be seen changing as the view and cursor move near the end of the program, you must resist the urge to edit this live machine code (unless you're prepared to face the consequences).
See the Memory Map for your system, and also this program's memory map which is listed in the source code along with many other details.
All that matters is, can you solve problems others cannot? Specifically, problems that others are willing to pay to have solved. If your tech school improves your ability, directly or indirectly, it is worth attending. Always concentrate on improving your abilities not on collecting academic credentials. Solving problems makes you face your short comings and overcome them. There is always room at the top and you can get there. The road to the top has some rough patches, most of them are in your attitudes and insecurities. Mastery and elegant code go hand in hand. Good luck to you. I never met you but I have learned over my career you are the only thing holding back your progress to mastery. Find 5 great programmers hang with them work with them and you will sky rocket. Good luck. I can promise you it is worth doing.
If you get into the right tech school. When I went to a tech school in the 70's, though I had some knowledge of electronics, and some experience while working for 3 years in a television repair shop, I did learn a lot, and was hired right out of school by Texas Instruments as a bench repair tech. I stayed with them for a year, just to gain some work experience. (hated Houston, Tx though). Moved back to my home state, floated around for a year, and then got back to work. I've been in pretty much the same field for 30 years, and still enjoy it. I haven't been laid off ever, and am in demand because I'm good at what I do and the training I learned, helped me. So, for not everyone, a tech school/associates degree is a waste of time as long as you do your research. You get OUT of it what you put INTO it.
Agreed. The absolute best way is either a bit of theory followed by a bit of practical, or a bit of practical (where they expect you to fail), followed by theory (this is why you should do it this way and why it works), followed by doing it right.
However, CS is a unique field where you can do the practical on your own. You own a computer, so you can always write an app to practice what you've learned. Take the initiative, don't wait for them to spoon feed you.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Traditional college sucks as well and 4 years is to long for tech.
IT needs a Badges system.
Badges? Badges! We don't need no stinkin' badges!
It seems to me that lots of engineering focus is on the software side, and hooray that is great that we have experts in everything net related and that side of the problem for product development in Linux, Windows etc and their toolsets for software development, and a great community (sourceforge, freshmeat, etc.)
Yet the missing part is key engineers understanding embedded systems or all else removed from operating system support. Even with FPGAs and a Linux core
it is a wide open window between hardware design and the code.
(opinion ) go with devices at the lowest level if you want to be a standout software guy, learn how to make them function in collaboration with the changing hardware guys.
There are also highly sought after engineering skills at the hardware level:
RF
signal integrity
board design
analog
Years ago I had a junior technician working on my crew with an H1B, he was a bright Iraqi fellow with a Ph.D in Physics. Middle management had him doing programming work for $8.50 an hour with plenty of OT.. With cuts looming in the near future he was safe but that meant that someone else would be taking the cut. So I had to get him a promotion within the company to ensure the safety of my crew.
Since that experience I have really hated the way H1B works. Though I don't have animosity t'ward the H1B holders.
If you're intelligent, and self-motivated, you'll be able to learn a lot of what you want to know without technical schooling. One of my best friends never went to college and BARELY went to high school, and he programs circles around me. If you're looking for a job, a degree helps but isn't strictly necessary. Personally, I think your choice of school matters a lot too. I was CS at Georgia Tech, we did a lot of "behind the veil" stuff, but we really didn't get into it until sophomore year. The first year was mostly just making sure everyone was on the same page, but once we got past it, things got a lot more interesting.
A good technical college or university will be ABET accredited (abet.org) you can search for the school name here: http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx. HINT: search on full school names, not abbreviations. I know hiring managers that will not even look at a resume if it lists a non-accredited school, like ITT, or ECPI.
. . . which is why I feel like you'd get a lot out of a good University Computer Science program. It seems like the technical school you are attending right now is just teaching you a single language, while a Computer Science degree will actually teach you how to program and think in a must more comprehensive way. With how far you were able to go teaching yourself, you could gain a lot.
Are you living in a place like California? If you can make it to a good program, like Berkeley, through community college or something like that, you really should go for it. If in doubt though, watch a webcast or two of their classes:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/playlist#c,d,Computer_Science,87898FD0A141069E
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/playlist#c,d,Computer_Science,1A2EBAC4283FE3EA
I never regretted going there, and they way they taught me to program was so much more advanced than anything I had been teaching myself at that point; it was really eye-opening. A lot of other schools with big undergraduate computer science programs (MIT and Stanford) have similar material available for free online, and it's all worth checking out.
I really hope I've convinced you that a degree in a good program is still worth quite a lot. It's also definitely helped me land a job much more easily.
Lots of smaller centers don't have lawyers and need them.
There is a massive glut of them in the city.
This trend is not exclusive to law. Supply, demand..
..don't panic
I went a "technical" college / university and I can tell you in 75% of cases I out weighted the profs technically. The profs were better technically endowed but still lacked a lot of basic skill. Everything we did was Windows based, we weren't allowed to step to far outside the box and we used mainly closed source wide spread software to run everything. Really to be honest it would of been worth my time and money to go to a normal college and tech it up myself. Now that I'm graduated I would honestly recommend to not put to much trust in a tech college, do it your own and rock it!.
I personally went to a non-accredited technical collage and it lead me to my current job ( decent pay )
The hands on skills and networking with teachers and other students was the big draw for me.
Worth noting is that a lot of companies like to hire for these places for the specific reason that you don't have a degree. Yes it means less pay, but it also means for my ~$3500 one year course I was hired within 3 months of completion, and am making 2.5x minimum wage in my area. Is it great, no. Does it mean I am free to explore other interests? Definitely. Better to do this then take a 3-4 year course costing tens of thousands of dollars to maybe end up in a job I don't like.
They kinda taste like tasty wheat . . . . kinda . . .
Any school which is promising that you'll get a job when you get out is a taking your money and giving you empty promises in return. The only training program I'm aware of which ensures a job is the military, usually with a mandatory commitment period.
You're going to school to prove that you can do hard things. If you're going into programming, you'll be doing hard things. An educational background which suggests that you are averse to doing hard things will not stand you well. A technical school does not suggest that you're up for hard things. A degree from a commuter school suggests that you are averse to immersing yourself in the unfamiliar.
Go to a four year school. Take hard classes, both in your field and out of it. Live on campus. Yes, it's expensive. Yes, you'll be up to your eyeballs in debt. But you'll prove to yourself and to employers that you're up for challenges and you can thrive even in unfamiliar environments. You'll also learn a lot about living and working with people who are different than you, something that's incredibly important for success in the workplace and in life. Those are the differences that are going to make the difference between a good career or a stalled one.
Military service is also not a bad idea. Sure, there's the risk that you'll get killed. But you'll also demonstrate that you can meet challenges and work in hard situations. You'll also meet a lot of different people, which won't hurt your career. If you couple military service with a four year degree via ROTC, you can come out as an officer. That never looks bad on a resume.
Easy Online Role Playing Campaign Management
When I found out my ex was pregnant, I decided to plow through a tech school from 20-22. I figure I'd better get a job that lets me afford diapers and cheerios. I went all the way to Bachelor level in those 2.5 years, attending school day and nights and working a graveyard shift at Walmart. No, the credits aren't transferable, but I can "test into" a Master's program if I try really hard. But... it's easier to just start over, earning real credits, from what I've read.
The only positive thing I got from the experience itself was the textbooks. Other than that, I felt like I bought a brand new Lexus and drove it off a cliff. It was expensive as hell, and I had to push hard to just get through it. Not because it was difficult, but because it felt worthless. I'm still paying the loans back, 10 years later, and it'll be 3 or 4 more before I'm finally done. It was a harsh experience.
Now, though, I've learned I can use the degree pretty well, since I don't try to use it for proof of knowledge anymore. I just list it as a regular old Bachelor's degree on my resume, and I've gotten the actual knowledge I need through other avenues. I do run into problems sometimes if I'm dealing with local academia, who recognize the degree for what it is, but for the most part employers see "Degree" and say "Oh, nice. Do you feel your degree has helped you professionally?". The answer, of course, is "Yes, definitely.", though the reality is having a degree (any degree, but especially a trade school degree) says more about how you can follow through on a multi-year project than it says about your accumulated knowledge.
In any case; schools of all types are heavily dependent on how invested you become in your own education. The truth is, no matter where you go, you'll sometimes feel like you have to learn materials on your own, unless you can somehow find a way to get schooling where you're the only student in all your classes. I'd say a full accredited university is a safer way to learn, since you can further your education without too much trouble, but if you're already paid up for the trade school, use what you paid for. Time is also a factor - if you know you need to be in and out in a couple years, a trade school might work, but recognize it for what it is.
Lots of truth here. Especially about keeping your nose clean. The construction trades might be willing to accept the fact that a sizable percentage of their employees will be late on monday because they're too hung over from the weekend, or still in jail. From their unskilled labor pool. They won't put up with that from skilled trades. And nobody else will put up with it from anybody.
Do hard things. If it feels like you're wasting your time, you are. Find something hard and do it. Go to a school that challenges you. When you get out, keep seeking challenges. If it looks insanely difficult, it's probably worth your time.
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I teach at a technical college, and I can say some of my students get jobs; I know this because I get referral calls from employers, and the occasional thank-you note.
Is it worth it? I can't say. I see a wide range of students, with a wide range of abilities and goals. For some, tech school is a good thing; for others, not so much. You will have to judge yourself and your goals for yourself.
-kgj
i got me a degree of "computer programming" at one (with a 4.0 GPA, no less). useless. with it and a nickel i can buy me a cup of coffee. i''m a bartender now.
alive to the universe, dead to the world
(Assuming you weren't joking - and that as an AC you'll actually look for replies....) No, Virginia Tech is not considered a "tech school" by the common use of the term (i.e., vocational school or technical college). It's a degree-granting university with graduate programs, which is usually considered a main difference between "tech schools" and universities. VT's engineering programs have a good, even excellent reputation. Even without the ride it's worth attending.
(Far be it from me to criticize what floats someone's boat, but engineering/math and classical studies/Gaelic seems like a strange combo/divide.)
ObDisclaimer: I did not attend VT. My wife's uncle was formerly a (civil engineering) professor there, but I don't think that is biasing me.
First, why go to school if you don't have a particular job in mind that you want?
Fun, exploring, finding yourself ?
I think successful people look around themselves and assess their situation, and build on that.
Live in a small town? Do you want to move to the City? Which City, what are its industries?
Then estimate the job market, the employment situation, the level of saturation.
And lets be honest, there are a lot of prejudices and expectations built into a profession independent of ability or education. If you ignore those your setting youself up to fail in the first place.
A College Education or a Trade school education isn't a guarantee, far from it, its a "bet" on a possible future that you wager a lot on. Most people never end up employed in whatever field they study. Opportunity and random chance have a lot more to do with that. If the overall job market isn't that great, taking a big risk in studying something you know nothing about doesn't sound like a Good idea.
Imposing your expectations on a field or institution also doesn't sound like a very good idea.. better to take a rest and think things over. Too often we try to muddle on through and end up shackled in debt we cannot discharge, regretting our decisions. You shouldn't do that. If it feels wrong, it probably is wrong.
Community college is the way of the future, even though they are maligned by education snobs. You save money, it's a good education, and it can transfer (if you check first, some applied science degrees will not).
http://www.accountkiller.com/en/delete-slashdot-account Stop visiting Slashdot.
Like it or not, nowadays you need a college degree, at least a Bachelor's. Some of job posting even says "Master Degrees preferred". We could argue all day/night long that, especially in computer science/engineering related positions, one could be a capable employee without any college degree but at the end of the day most employers would still ask for one. I notice Google is an exception. Many of their job postings say "X years of experience in lieu of college degree". I think it makes sense for them to use a college degree from an accredited University/College as a measure of someone's commitment and ability to complete something.., for 4 years at least. That's a standard/system already available. That's just my 2-cent.
Want to run the school game? Get your B. S. and hit the law schools. Pass the bar, and you have a career for life.
That's a horrible idea if you can't get into the top 7 or so law schools.
About half of law school graduates can't get jobs as lawyers and many end up shuffling papers for $15 an hour. That might not be so bad in the grand scheme of things, although the average law graduate finishes their education with $150,000 on which student loan interest can run $1000/month so you'd need to live off $8.50 an hour to keep the principle from increasing which is poverty level.
I know we would consider a person with a technical degree. For us, it means that the person didn't just continue his education and go to college because Dad was paying and it was better than working. Usually people going to technical colleges go there because they are really interested in doing something specific. These are the people who actually remain interested in what they are doing after college and remain productive.
You probably won't command the big bucks in the job market but I think you'll land a job with a company that is about getting the job done (probably a smaller company) and it will be a more interesting job.