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EFF Wants Ubuntu To Disable Online Search By Default
sfcrazy writes "Ubuntu 12.10 met with some controversy before and after its launch about the inclusion of Amazon product listings alongside local search results. Now, the Electronic Frontier Foundation has raised concerns around data leaks and Amazon Ads. The EFF has asked Canonical to update Ubuntu so it disables 'Include online search results' by default. 'Users should be able to install Ubuntu and immediately start using it without having to worry about leaking search queries or sending potentially private information to third party companies. Since many users might find this feature useful, consider displaying a dialog the first time a user logs in that asks if they would like to opt-in.'"
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Providing users with a clear, easy to change choice up front ought to be the new standard. Maybe some users will want to see sponsored search results (advertising) when they search for photos they took on their vacation to Scotland. Others may prefer to just see the photos they are looking for. Either way, letting the user choose and being honest about what they are choosing, rather than simply having sponsored results appear in a local search, is a much better user experience.
Windows 8 interface formerly known as Metro is leaking local searches like a mofo also.
Why should every thing i search locally be shared with the maker of every service and app I subscribe to?
It's batshit insane IMO but at this stage to be expected from the likes of Microsoft, Apple, Google, but Ubuntu?!?!?!!!!!!
Me: "makes me sick motherfucker, how far we done fell"
Shuttleworth: *ahhhhhhhauccccccccccck *Phlew!
http://youtu.be/1wmgghlEagA?t=3m36s
This is how it should have been in the first place. As a user of Ubuntu when I do decide to install 12.10 I would like to be greeted with the option to opt-in rather than having the ability to "opt-out" by changing settings after the install. Personally, I will opt-in just to be able to support Ubuntu in even the smallest way.
Everybody wants Ubuntu to disable online search.
The problem is users using the search to try and find something local & then getting a bunch of amazon results alongside their files. Not very Linux like at all.
"...but I would expect most Linux users to know that and make an informed decision." Typically true, but it should make a difference that Ubuntu isn't targeting the average Linux user (IMHO). They are targeting everyday users as well by trying to make their interface as easy to use as possible.
Every time I search for "tentacle rape furry herm hentai" I get zero results from Amazon anyway.
"...but I would expect most Linux users to know that and make an informed decision."
Typically true, but it should make a difference that Ubuntu isn't targeting the average Linux user (IMHO). They are targeting everyday users as well by trying to make their interface as easy to use as possible.
As much as I'd like to think otherwise, let's be realistic. Very, very few 'everyday users' are installing Linux. They'll use what they get on their Mac or PC.
Developing a Linux distro isn't cheap. Even if they are mostly just assembling free software components, it still costs money to create a reasonably polished user experience. Canonical seem like a decent enough company and have sponsored lots of conferences for example. Back in the day you could request install cd:s from them which they sent you free of charge so that you could give to friends and family. So why not be nice back and let them have some small Amazon affiliate income? If that's what it takes to keep Ubuntu running, it's fine by me.
Football Odds
Right, and I understand that. I'm just saying that Ubuntu is trying to target the everyday user, I don't know if it is successful or not.
Linux is being used more and more by "unsophisticated" users like me and the group of elderly people I've helped by installing Lubuntu on their tired old computers. Please don't make assumptions for us about this sort of thing. As I understand it, good programmers (and hopefully that included people who make this decision, shouldn't make such assumptions.
work in progress
I've always felt that Ubuntu is mostly targeting "Windows refugees," that is, people who want to get away from Windows for one reason or another, but don't want to buy a Mac. Unlike some (most?) Linux distros, Ubuntu tries to make everything as easy as possible for the new user including giving it a default look and feel as close to Windows as it can manage. If, as I've seen mentioned elsewhere, Windows 8 is including on-line searches by default, it makes sense for Ubuntu to do the same on the assumption that this is what most of their newest users expect. I'm not saying that this is the right decision, but then, I don't use Ubuntu so I'm not part of their target market.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
How about users just get a clue? Online search is a feature, not a bug. Yes it can 'leak' data, but I would expect most Linux users to know that and make an informed decision.
I would have to say it depends on the specifics of how it is implemented. For example when IE moved from a separate search box to demanding everything be done from a single URL bar there were some keyboard shortcuts that went with.
ctrl-e is supposed to send what you type to your search provider.
ctrl-l is supposed to be a URL but if you don't fully qualify with http it will *still* leak that to your search provider as well. I still find myself accidently doing it even though I know better.
The one ambiguous field is intentionally structured and designed to leak data like a sieve.
If ubuntu is doing anything like this then I think it is fair for EFF to call them out on it. If it is just a case of a dedicated search field that does nothing else but leak data necessary to complete user request then the critisim is not warranted.
Having no experience with the feature in question I will withold judgement.
Really if Ubuntu had implemented these suggestions to begin with, they could have avoided this controversy.
There should be NO default.
Show a dialog with no default option, and force the use to choose. No "Next->Next->Finish".
morcego
How about users just get a clue? Online search is a feature, not a bug.
Not when you're trying to search locally.
OMG that's so innovative. Did you think up that bright idea yourself, or maybe WAS IT IN THE FUCKING SUMMARY?
Ubuntu doesn't look a whole lot like Windows. If you're looking for a distro that does look very much like Windows, take a look at Mint. If it wasn't for the icons and a few minor retails, they're very similar.
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
...Since many users might find this feature useful, consider displaying a dialog the first time a user logs in that asks if they would like to opt-in.'
How is this different than the suggestion in the summary to default to no and ask the first time you log in?
Users should get a clue? What a charming view on users - I hope you're not a developer.
As a long-term Ubuntu user I have to say that I really want a clear separation between online search and local search. The last thing I want to see when searching through my files is an advertisement by some company. Not even as an opt-in.
(Apart from that general point, it should also be mentioned that Amazon sucks for a variety of good reasons.)
From TFA:
"Windows and Mac users are used to having their data sent to third parties without their express consent by software companies that are trying to maximize profits for their shareholders."
C'mon, this is the EFF. Of course they would be critical of Microsoft, Apple, Google, et al. for leaking, or downright giving up users' data to third party entities. The article is hardly a slam, though...
Ubuntu doesn't look a whole lot like Windows.
I wouldn't know. I've never used any version of Windows more recent than XP (and only use it to play a few games on at a club I belong to) and I don't use Ubuntu. I do, however, do support for my sister who used Ubuntu until she got tired of fighting with the Unity DE and switched to Xubuntu. As I wrote, that was my impression of Ubuntu and I won't insist on it if you feel like disagreeing.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
...Since many users might find this feature useful, consider displaying a dialog the first time a user logs in that asks if they would like to opt-in.'
How is this different than the suggestion in the summary to default to no and ask the first time you log in?
It's different in that first login comes after the installation process.
Not that it's a bad idea - I must've missed that sentence when skimming the summary... rant partially retracted.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I believe you'll find Mint took over the top spot when Ubuntu began pushing Unity on everyone.
If you're looking at cosmetics alone, Unity looks more like MacOS X than it does Windows. But feel free to compare screenshots of Ubuntu 12.10, Mint 13, and Windows XP or Vista or 7. You'll see Mint impersonating Windows far more than Ubuntu does.
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
could put so much evil in their OS!
Very nice response. Much nicer than deserved. First off, the snarky "How about users just get a clue? Online search is a feature, not a bug. Yes it can 'leak' data, but I would expect most Linux users to know that and make an informed decision" is typically what I expect from some of the assholes who have been using Linux. They are socially retarded pinheads who's only accomplishment in life was staying up late staining their teeth with Cheetos and Jolt cola figuring out how to use a free distro because they were too poor to buy a copy of Windows or good hardware to run it. They somehow feel superior to others who could give a rat's ass less about which OS they use. "Sophistication" has nothing to do with the OS you use. Kinda like people who buy luxury cars thinking it gives them class. What's that expression about a silk purse? I have been on the fringe of the Linux community since RHL 3 (not RHEL 3) and received nothing but hate and discontent when I was learning. "Read the fucking manual" was all I got. You guys know who you are...
Most advanced OS users know how to configure their OS securely. Some don't. The default inclusion of online search is wrong. You are correct in stating the people who make decisions in what goes in to the code should not make that assumption. The default inclusion of potentially vulnerable software or the default inclusion of features that can be exploited is negligent, plain and simple. MS was wrong in the Windows 2000/IIS debacle and look at the shit storm that started.
My apologies to the Linux users who have tried to make a difference- you are not socially retarded pinheads.
Yes, this inclusion into the Dash has gone a bit to far.
I upgraded a machine over the weekend to 12.10, and after a couple of installs of my various packages I like, I went to Unity Dash to search for "Eclipse" to see if I'd already installed the Java IDE or not.
Instead of simply saying "no", it instead gave me returns for all sorts of Twilight movies and books. Amazon probably has it on my wish list already.
I'll search Amazon when I want to search Amazon. When Dash is now the way to launch programs on my box instead of menus, I want it to launch programs.
--Lance
I wasn't trying to ask for the literal difference...
That said, I prefer the idea of defaulting things like this to something sane and asking you on login if you want to opt-in versus putting more options in the installation process.
Welcome to Ubuntu: An experimental and totally free Neuro-Marketing Neo-Linux Neon Skinner-Box that rivals DARPA while remaining cute enough for children -- and irresistible to moths.
With (N)eubuntu, anyone can contribute to open-source.
Install now to begin clicking bubbles and sharing your information with other interesting entities right away!
Once you have the (N)eubuntu Experience©, you'll wonder why the hell you ever considered Linux!
Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
The problem is users using the search to try and find something local
The problem is a UI that co-mixes local searches with internet searches.
If you use a normal, non-UI command like 'find' to do local searches, there is no issue.
Accepting a small chunk of money from Amazon in exchange for promotion (big, shiny, opt-in dialogue with a "remind me later" option) will keep the respect and support of quite a lot of the community.
Accepting a large chunk of money to allow Amazon to effectively spy on the majority of users (desktop search queries sent to Amazon by default) is outright despicable and will many to actively disrecommend Ubuntu.
Actually I wonder how much Mark Shuttleworth would get if he sold Ubuntu to Amazon. And I wonder if he is wondering the same thing.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I guess the answer may be rather that Shuttleworth does not fund EFF operations anymore. The EFF simply jump on board of criticism directed against Canonical. That is a cheap shot. What did the EFF do to stop the Amazon business practices, or to combat their rogue software patents? What did EFF do to advance Linux software?
Some ubuntu users feel that this amazon search functionality should be expanded to other applications as well. For example grep search results should include amazon search results.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1055766
I don't think there are many Windows refugees currently. 2000 was ok, XP was a slight improvement. Vista was a disaster* because of being installed on systems not able to cope with it. 7 was basically a success, as far as I can see. We'll wait and see with 8.
I run Windows for games. If steam managed to switch it's catalogue to Linux now, I'd switch now. It's mostly a company problem now, and I hope Steam win, because It'll result in free operating systems in my opinion. Of course, that will be at the cost of DRM everywhere, but I've learnt to accept the less bad DRM as a part of life - I refuse to buy anything with crappy DRM.
That being said - my current uptime is 1826 hours with Vista.
He's probably referring to the fact that Mint has been getting more pageviews on DistroWatch than Ubuntu for some time now. I'm certain Ubuntu still has more actual users.
That said, I had a friend inquire about Linux recently and I recommended Mint to them over Ubuntu because of this advertising injection. I use KDE so the Unity thing wasn't a big deal to me, but I can't excuse the ads/infomining. That's not what Linux is about.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
In about 3 or 4 years, Mint will eclipse Ubuntu mainly due to OSX me-too shenanigans like this. Move now; I'd recommend LMDE.
the move ubuntu have been making are bad at best. unity the first and now ads. lets just hope it never makes it to the a lts in its current form.
The EFF are the vegans of technology. A little extremist at times but healthy nontheless.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
Well firefox gets paid for search results Ubuntu is setting up for the same thing they need make money to thats how business works.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
when linux distros had very restrictive defaults.
Installed firefox on windows? Cookies allowed, no warning, everything open to tracking but for easy use, too.
Installed firefox on debian? First form you fill, you are asked "do you really want to submit data over unsecured connection?". Cookies? the default was "ask". Other insecure functions? often turned off, so using insecure functionality was opt-in.
Apparently the EFF wants you to open your wifi to everyone and anyone because it will promote privacy (how, they never explain), but when a free operating system enables searching the internet by default, apparently that's a no no because it might leach personal information.
Way to be a hypocrite EFF.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
That being said - my current uptime is 1826 hours with Vista.
That's two and a half months, how do you get away from reboots on Patch Tuesday? Just ignore it and not update?
I've learnt to accept the less bad DRM as a part of life
That makes you part of the problem.
Free Martian Whores!
First off, the snarky "How about users just get a clue? Online search is a feature, not a bug. Yes it can 'leak' data, but I would expect most Linux users to know that and make an informed decision" isn't what I would expect from a hard-core Linux user. He's going to eschew any distro that did that.
They are socially retarded pinheads who's only accomplishment in life was staying up late staining their teeth with Cheetos and Jolt cola figuring out how to use a free distro because they were too poor to buy a copy of Windows or good hardware to run it.
I see your problem (besides confusing who's with whose). Ten years ago when I was learning Linux, I never got the "RTFM n00b," almost every Linux question I have posed in any forum got a useful answer, or at least an attempt at one. But you know, sneer at some "retarded pinheads who's only accomplishment in life was staying up late staining their teeth with Cheetos and Jolt cola figuring out how to use a free distro because they were too poor to buy a copy of Windows" and guess what? You're going to be told to fuck off.
Talk about "socially retarded", lets talk about pots and kettles. It's been my experience, whether with Linux geeks or those completely ignorant of computers, that in most cases if you're polite you'll be met with politeness and helpfulness, and if you're a jerk they're not going to be nice and there's no way they're going out of their way to help you.
But since you finally were polite in your last sentence, I'll tell you why I, personally, use Linux. It's because it has more features, is more customizable, I don't have to reboot the damned thing every time it needs a patch, if I do decide to reboot it (I usually shut it off at night if I'm not downloading anything) when it comes up, all the apps and documents that were open when I shut it down are reopened. That, and it's more stable on flaky hardware. That, and MS refuses to follow standards; CP/M died twenty years ago, what are they still using a backslash to denote different directories when everyone else has been Unix-like for a decade now? Oh, yeah, lock in. Forgot that. Probably a lot more reasons I forgot as well.
Unless you're a gamer there's no reason except laziness (I confess, I have a W7 notebook I'm too lazy to install Linux on) to NOT install Linux. Windows simply has nothing that Linux lacks, and Linux has a lot of stuff that's been there for years that Windows lacks.
Free Martian Whores!
They are opportunist lawyers with a thing for a principle or two.
Opera has a similar nasty bug... If you middle-click almost anywhere within the browser window, it likes to take the last bit of text you highlighted with your mouse and send it to Google. It's wonderful when you're simply trying to middle-click a link to open it in a new tab, but you're off by a pixel and so instead Opera sends some secret text you didn't want anyone else to see to Google so that it can store it forever in its database of every search query ever submitted.
My problem isn't that it's Google, but that it's anything at all. (And I already use DuckDuckGo, BTW.)
Pasting into the browser window isn't a good enough reason to send that data over the internet. If I paste it into the URL bar, then perhaps parse it as a URL. If I paste it into the search bar, then send it as a search query. However, Opera goes so far as to take data pasted anywhere where it otherwise wouldn't do something else, and send it to Google as a search query. I sent them a bug report about this years ago, suggesting that they only do this when it's pasted into the URL bar, but apparently they didn't think that was a very good idea.
I did find a work-around, in that if I delete all search providers from Opera except for "find in page" then it will no longer do this. However, it's still a terrible default to have, regardless of which search provider it sends the data to, particularly considering that it's so easy to do, simply by middle-clicking on something you thought was a link but which actually isn't, or by missing a link by a pixel or two. Like I said, it'd make far more sense if I actually had to paste into the URL bar or the search bar in order to trigger this behavior -- you know, if I had to indicate that I wanted it to do this rather than it just assuming it knows what I want.
Opera never takes my suggestions. Years ago I suggested that there be an "upload progress indicator" just like there's a "download progress indicator" so that web sites didn't have to resort to stupid javascript hacks and plugins in order to provide some feedback to users about the progress of file uploads. However, it seems no one is interested in that. Apparently the world easily figured out that giving no progress about the state of a download is a bad idea, but for uploads... Who needs to know when or even if their uploads will ever complete?