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Microsoft Reportedly Working On Its Own Smartphone

Posted by Soulskill on from the seeing-what-sticks dept.

According to a (paywalled) report in the Wall Street Journal, Microsoft is experimenting with its own smartphone design. "Officials at some of Microsoft's parts suppliers, who declined to be named, said the Redmond, Wash.-based company is testing a smartphone design but isn't sure if a product will go into mass production." The article continues: "If Microsoft pushes ahead with its mobile phone, it would underscore how far Microsoft has moved away from its long-standing practice of making software and leaving decisions about design, features and marketing of the computing hardware to partners such as Hewlett-Packard or Samsung Electronics. ... As it does so, Microsoft pulls from a modified playbook of Apple—whose hardware-plus-software approach Microsoft officials long have scorned. ... Smartphones running Microsoft's two-year-old Windows Phone operating software for cellphones haven't sold well, and Microsoft may want to leave itself an option to test whether its own phone would spur sales."

36 of 215 comments (clear)

  1. MS killed the Nokia star by faragon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's terrible for Nokia. The few chances for its survival, IMO, now are gone :-S

    1. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by lobiusmoop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Embrace, extend and extinguish.

      --
      "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
    2. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by tuppe666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      In case you are wondering what Elop thought of this news.

      "in a conference call two weeks ago, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said that he would welcome such a rival. Elop said that a Microsoft smartphone would act as a “stimulant” to all companies making Windows Phone 8 devices, but added that he wasn’t aware of any plans to do so." http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/microsoft-smartphone-windows-phone-8-98096

      Whatever you think of Steve Ballmer how he for the record got for a bargain the most expensive advertising campaign in history for next to nothing, and a patent cartel with Nokia, and it seems things are unlikely to change in the future.

      I'm astonished the Finnish Government has done nothing all I can find is this quote http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/us-finnish-government-wont-buy-nokia-sha-idUSBRE85J15V20120620?irpc=932 "This is not our business. We are developing Finland into a country where companies can do well, but this is not the way of support along which the government will go,"

    3. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by base2op · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What's funny to me is that Elop went all-in on the Windows Phone strategy because he didn't want Nokia to be just another Android device maker. Now they're just another Windows Phone maker.

    4. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's terrible for Nokia. The few chances for its survival, IMO, now are gone :-S

      True. But it's a logical move for Microsoft. The world has changed. The paradigm of selling an operating system at high profit margins is failing against the paradigm of giving the operating system away in order to sell devices. Microsoft can't compete with that without changing the way they do business.

      Frankly, Nokia should have seen this coming.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    5. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem here is that it is now going to do battle against companies who have years of experience as *hardware* manufacturers. Yes, Microsoft has some experience, but on the level of Apple or Samsung? And just how far can Microsoft intrude into the world of manufacturing before it starts stepping on the toes of OEMs? If Microsoft is just planning a few flagship devices to demonstrate Windows on smartdevices, I can understand it, though I have a hard time seeing how they can hope to make money with it, but if Microsoft is deciding, after literally decades of essentially being a software company, that now it is going to become a manufacturer, then it's entering territory it has little direct experience with, and is going to be going head to head against very big players like Apple.

      I'm not saying it might not work. Who knows? Maybe in five years, it will be a major rival against Apple and the Android ecosystem. But even success in this new strategy carries risks of damaging core business units.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by tuppe666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's funny to me is that Elop went all-in on the Windows Phone strategy because he didn't want Nokia to be just another Android device maker. Now they're just another Windows Phone maker.

      The reasoning made no sense then. The weirder one was they didn't hedge there bets with something else, Android and Meego being the obvious choices.

    7. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He decided he didn't want to be part of an expanding market if he had to share it (and, granted, Android isn't doing that great for people not in the front rank). So now he's in a dying market. And he has to share it.

    8. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by paladinsama · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nokia is the company that closed a digital store and revoked the access to all purchases to their customers. Death is an appropriate fate for them.

    9. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by FuegoFuerte · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'll take on your points one by one, and disagree on all of them:

      Agreed. Nokia == BlackBerry.
      That's quite a stretch... BlackBerry == early smartphone maker who has since refused to innovate and even refused for many years to use touchscreens. Nokia == early maker of "dumb phones" who, while being early to the smart phone game, never really did well in it, resting on their success in the dumb phone market. They have now woken up and started to pursue smart phones in a serious manner.

      Device manufacturer means NOTHING in the mobile marketplace - operating system does!
      Samsung is doing fantastic using Android, while HTC is very rapidly losing market share, and Motorola is a Has-Been. Device manufacturer means NOTHING? Please... I think HTCs shareholders would have some rather strong words for you.

      Windows mobile is terrible and will continue to be terrible, so I'm not sure that it was much of a lifeline to begin with.
      Have you actually used Windows Phone? (I mean 7, 7.5 or 8, not the old 6.5 or before). It's the only one of the major contendors that doesn't look like a smartphone swallowed Windows 95 and then puked icons all over itself. It's incredibly stable, and has a lot of built-ins that make a lot of the most common smart-phone tasks very simple and fast.

      The market wants iOS and Android. Nobody else matters. Microsoft just has a lot of money so they pretend that people care about them as a mobile OS provider. They would make more money by manufacturing Android phones.
      A lot of people I talk to want an alternative to the somewhat stale iOS and craptastic Android. I think Microsoft actually does have a chance, and with the amount they're investing in Windows Phone I think it's a pretty good chance at that. Oh yeah, and they already make a lot of money off Android phones... Love 'em or hate 'em, patents are a beautiful thing if you're on the right side of them.

      Microsoft has made some serious mistakes in mobile, but they're hardly out of the game.

      Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I currently work at Microsoft, though nowhere near the Phone or OS divisions. I do hope to see Microsoft succeed in the phone world, partly because I own stock in both Microsoft and Nokia, but my coworkers would tell you I have no problem bashing decisions I disagree with at the company.

    10. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by aristotle-dude · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nokia is the company that closed a digital store and revoked the access to all purchases to their customers. Death is an appropriate fate for them.

      Microsoft did the same thing when they shut down the "playsforsure" platform.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    11. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by oztiks · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He's right and the truth of the matter is with the exception of Acer who has basically signed its own death warrant by not consigning to windows will be suddenly left in the cold. Push vendors to create competitive devices by brandishing your own is a good strategy.

      Sorry guys, nobody cares what OS is on a phone. Only Geeks do and normal people will by Nokia because its a good brand and if half the devices out there run the same system (like what surface+windows8 is doing) users will just buy it without a care to what a tech review has to say.

      Nokia phones rock, they are even better with an OS like WP on it, I really do hate Microsoft with a passion but I cannot knock what they've done with WP7 and the Luima 900. Upon using a Nokia phone you get one important thing you miss with the iPhone, that is its a phone, not a handheld computer with a gsm module tacked on to it which even after all these years is what the iPhone still looks and feels like.

    12. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nokia's recent history is more like "kidnap, ravage, dump." Extending? Embracing? Nope, nope.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    13. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      even hedge bets with Symbian and featurephones would have been good enough, they were selling very well until the pillock stood up on his burning platform and, well, pushed the company off.

      I'm sure he'll still get his million dollar bonus when they sack him though.

    14. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Meego didn't have the developer ecosystem.

      I wonder if there is anything Nokia could have done? I see his point with Android and since Windows Phone is a new OS with MS providing a huge developer base and tools not to mention hope that it might be compatible with METRO be a boon.

      Investors hate people who say it is a hot market I want in!!! That makes them yawn as consumers prefer other players who are already in psychologically. Symbian didn't have the developer support or ecosystem either or the mass market either.

      Picking Windows Mobile kind of made sense and was a big bet for these reasons. Problem is it never took off. If Windows Phone did take off Nokia would be riding it as they are Microsoft's preferred phone provider. Sadly, in the end they got screwed over by MS just like everyone else. MS is a very non trustworthy company to be foolish enough to trust your business too.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    15. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Interesting

      People do care. Average users as they want something that looks cool that their friends use and has all the cool apps they are familiar with.

      I spoke to a phone salesmen and he told me Nokia has the highest returns in his store. The Nokia luima actually and didn't recommend it!

      That says a lot right there.

      It is the classic example of MBAs trying to get ahead by staying behind the competition with excessive cost cutting. Not trying to make a better phone to gain more marketshare which is what Apple and Samsung is doing. Though the new Galaxy 3 is cheaper and breaks easier unlike the IPhone 5 and older Galaxies sadly.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    16. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by LongearedBat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      nobody cares what OS is on a phone

      A few years ago, yes. But I think things have changed with advent of apps.

      So many people are now used to running a variety of apps, that those who buy smartphones opt for iOS or Android. (Users might not know what an OS is, but they will ask the salesman "Does it run apps?")
      Lack of apps -> Lack of interest in the high end user base -> Lack of sales

      Sure, many low end users still don't care about apps. "Why should I pay for a smartphone when all I want is a cheap and simple phone?" This is why WP7 has not yet gained traction.

      Consequently, if WP claws it's way to populatity, it must be due to some clever business strategy.

      Part of such a clever business strategy might be to ensure a high minimum quality/performance of the devices, achieved by actively taking control of the building process.
      Another part might be to "train" the existing user base into using and liking Metro. When a phone works seamlessly with the computer and "it just works", then that phone will be more attractive, thus making it easier for users to migrate to WP (mainly Windows users who are not yet avid app users).

      In other words, Microsoft is beginning to compete toe to toe against Apple, using strategies similar to Apple's. And with enough strong business practices, MS might actually succeed. But it won't be quick.
      What worries me is that if MS succeeds, then Android might fall behind. That would be sad.

      However it plays out, I don't see WP becoming one of the big OS's in a hurry. It's more of a medium term plan. The catch up will take a few years.

    17. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by symbolset · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nokia never did well in smartphones? Really? They sold half a billion Symbian smartphones - more than either Apple or Android has so far. They had 40 percent market share.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    18. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What's even worse is that Nokia make some excellent hardware.

      If you look at the reviews of the Lumia 920 the hardware is top notch. What is a problem is that no one (well to reasonable assumption) wants Windows Phone.

      A lot of people do want Android though. And Nokia has a chance of competing with Samsung which makes excellent but (compared to Nokia) rather pricey hardware.

      If you look at phones like a Nokia Express Music series they are pretty damn good. And very cheap. If they'd launched them with Android instead of Symbian I think they'd sell well, especially in poorer countries. And an Android Lumias would be bound to sell better than an WP ones.

      Also WP doesn't help Nokia's real problem which is its long development cycles. That's something Sony Ericsson suffered from too. Making phones in unionised Nordic countries is always going to be slower than doing it in Asia. Nokia were well aware of this

      http://www.fonearena.com/blog/30489/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-our-platform-is-burning.html

      "Chinese OEMs are cranking out a device much faster than,the time that it takes us to polish a PowerPoint presentation"

      If I were in charge of Nokia here's what I'd do with smartphones.

      I'd keep the industrial design in house. I'd should outsource the hardware design and manufacturing to Taiwanese ODMs and switch to Android (if Microsoft want WP support they'd need to pay and I'd do as HTC and Samsung do and still sell mostly Android phones). So you'd have a basic case design done in Europe shared across a series but rapidly redesign the internals - baseband chip up - to keep the performance current. In terms of baseband I'd buy from anyone who would sell chips that could run Android - i.e. Qualcomm, Samsung, TI, ST Ericsson. Nokia would sell its baseband business and let it operate in competition with these suppliers, but Nokia would only buy from it if its designs were competitive.

      The bundled apps - Nokia's maps for example - could be either done in house or outsourced.

      The idea is that the things that make a Nokia a Nokia - industrial design and bundled apps - would be decoupled from the hardware design which would then happen more quickly.

      Also the underlying base band chip would change from phone to phone. So if Qualcomm had the best chip in one generation, they'd get the order. If Samsung had the best chip in the next one they'd get it.

      Sony Ericsson originally bought all its baseband chips from Ericsson Mobile Platforms. They got further and further behind Qualcomm in terms of performance, particularly after Qualcomm launched the Snapdragon. Eventually Sony bought out the phone business and started to buy Qualcomm chips. The Ericsson Mobile Platforms was 'cast out of the Ericsson group' (think Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of Eden) and ended up being part of ST Ericsson.

      Basically if you want to get people in Nordic countries to work hard they need to know that they are competing on the open market and their company will be shut down if it is unprofitable. Back when Sony Ericsson only bought from EMP that was not the case.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    19. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by rtfa-troll · · Score: 3, Informative

      I spoke to a salesperson today aswell, see I wanted a tablet for my wife so she could plug it in to her (i think olympus) camera and then upload her photos to DropBox. The guy told me come back in a few weeks when the Windows tablets are in. He also said that it was something the iPad isn't capable of, which really I'd consider is a pretty damn remedial task.

      If you go talk to the Salesman in a Microsoft store in the office where you work you will hear some pretty weird shit. The iPad can obviously do that using the camera connection kit and if you bought a Nexus tablet you could just do it with a converter cable. I'd recommend going ahead with that now whilst you can still claim you bought it before the Surface was available. Later on you might get into trouble with your team leader for not being sufficiently loyal.

      I think that Microsoft has been able to get away with spreading silly rumours about like this about Linux in the past because most people didn't have access to systems where they could check them. On the other hand, anyone who uploads a photo from their camera to an iPad or a Nexus is immediately going to see the benefits that a quality screen with a high PPI rating is going to give them. This is going to be one of the first things any iPad owner is going to ask a surface owner to show him.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    20. Re:MS killed the Nokia star by rtfa-troll · · Score: 4, Informative

      How did Nokia get screwed by Microsoft?

      so so many ways.

      • Microsoft is pushing Skype on all Windows platforms; this is specifically designed to take over AT&T and other operator's billing relationships. Means no sane mobile operator will go with WP8
      • HTC is the main launch partner for Windows 8 - Nokia is going to be pushed down below even a Minor Chinese competitor, smaller than Sony or LG in smartphones.
      • Windows Phone does not support pureview
      • Windows phone 8 is deeply late for Christmas deliveries
      • Microsoft has completely failed on app quality control - most apps are simply the cheapest thing to get a Microsoft bonus and inflate the app numbers
      • Microsoft took the tablet space - Nokia had previously planned to do WP8 tablets themselves
      • Microsoft promised Nokia sub $100 BOM on Windows phones - not, apparently, delivered yet.
      • Windows phone 7 won't be upgraded (as you said - Nokia for a long time claimed to believe it would be)
      • Microsoft is publicising their own phones just before Nokia's big launch

      The camera one is really instructive. Nokia's big new feature as 40MP ultra-big, ultra-high resolution sensors with digital stabilisation. They create a special "pure-view" brand just for these. Instead they will be delivering 8MP sensors with standard optical stabilization and are desperate (this is the sensor where they cheated on the publicity video). Nokia has been forced to brand these "pure-view" also so they could get that feature check on their Windows phones.

      Think about the loss that causes when imaging was the last feature Nokia stood out on:

      • Pure View - originally associated with 40MP custom sensors is now associated with commodity 8MP sensors
      • they have no single feature on their phones which is outstanding; almost everything is worse than an iPhone 5 and much worse than a new Samsung.
      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  2. Their going to call it the Xune by Andy+Prough · · Score: 4, Funny

    The case will be a pleasant earthy-brown color.

  3. Market impact by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Before the first unit ships, it will damage the market for Windows Phone handsets due to the anticipation. It's an old move in the tech business to destroy a market with vaporware: usually, though, companies do it to destroy markets where they're not getting an income.

  4. I don't think so by AbhiTheOne · · Score: 3, Informative

    The reasons Microsoft built Surface were:
    1. MS felt the OEM Win8 tablets not upto the mark with iPad.
    2. There is no dedicated OEM working on Win8 tablet.
    3. MS thinks there isn't OEM with market perception comparable to Apple in tablet space.

    All these issues aren't present in WP8 space, as Nokia has history of marking amazing phones, it is dedicated to WP8 and market perception of Nokia isn't bad in phone space. So it doesn't make sense for Microsoft to make their own phone.

  5. Re:Microsoft product design by jbolden · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple has already stated in court that Win8's design does substantially differ from Apple's. Apple has a problem with Android. They've been unequivocal about MeeGo, Tizen, Win8, BBOS9, BB10... not being a violation of their patents.

  6. In Other news by tuppe666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LG is profitable again after dumping windows and focusing on Android.
    Asus have also having good fortune from Android Tablets.
    Sony after dumping Ericsson is profitable again with Android.

    Nokia gets burnt once with Windows Phone 8 incompatibilities
    Nokia gets thrown under a bus with the Surface tablet
    Nokia gets B*******d new Microsoft Phone

    Now I'm not saying Nokia should have gone Android...just that Android has a 75% share , and Nokia has well a share of what 2%

    1. Re:In Other news by laffer1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Android is a race to the bottom just as PC sales were. If you're Samsung or Moto, it's great to be in android. They have the higher margin devices. Too bad most devices are crap. The same can be said for the PC. Google has used microsoft's own battle plan against them. Microsoft sees this and uses the Apple battle plan because somehow they always survive. In 15 years, will we see google giving microsoft a loan or investment so there is still competition?

      Nokia has a microsoft fanboy working for them. There is nothing left for them. They could have owned the dumbphone market and worked on something decent or acquired RIM and tried to do something with it. They could have tried to get webos from HP or partnered with them. There are many things they could have done, but they chose to be the launchpad for microsoft as a hardware company. (ignoring the xbox and input device lines) Best case, Nokia is bought by Microsoft. I don't even see that future.

      --
      MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
    2. Re:In Other news by tuppe666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Android is a race to the bottom...Too bad most devices are crap

      There is no part of that that is true. Current Windows Phones won't run WP8 [seriously single processor], Iphones had a disappointing launch is reflected marketshare is down from 23.1% to 14.9% in a couple of quarters. RIM is yet to come out with a compelling product...and Elop killed Symbian

      Android had waterproof phones; projectors; massive phones; value phones; keyboard phones; cutting edge phones...and a marketshare of 75%...they are buying them because they are great innovative hardware and more importantly software. They are building market share not a desperate dying monopolist trying to gain market share through its usual bully tactics[Microsoft] or maintain it through Litigation.

    3. Re:In Other news by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nokia is losing a billion dollars a quarter focusing on Windows Phone, and you think Android is a race to the bottom.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  7. Re:Every cult needs a villain by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever you may think of Apple, the fact is that Microsoft's notion of innovation now seems to be "Do what Apple does." At some point, if Microsoft continues down this path, it's going to weaken its OEM network, which is, at the end of the day, what made Microsoft the company it is today. Without all those manufacturers throwing MS's OEM products on new units, I'd say Microsoft's attempt to become Apple better work really damned well.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  8. Re:Microsoft product design by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple has a problem with Android because Android is a major competitor. It has no problem with Microsoft because it does not foresee any point in the near future when Microsoft will be a major competitor.

    Getting hauled into court by Apple is a sign that you're on to something. Not getting hauled into court by Apple is a sign that you're probably going to fail.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. Re:Every cult needs a villain by tuppe666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linux Desktop will never catch on in mainstream and it's isn't Microsoft's fault, it's the short-coming of bunch of stubborn losers in denial.

    Not sure of the relevance of that comment, but saying Windows phone will never catch on with the mainstream...and its definitely Microsofts fault, it's the short-coming of bunch of stubborn losers in denial.

    I believe Linux runs on 75% of Smartphones :) where Windows Phone runs on 2%

  10. I guess no one remembers Kin by Dracos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The two phones MS made a couple years ago that sold ridiculously poorly and were pulled from the carrier (Verizon, I think) after only a few weeks. Yeah, a Microsoft phone will change everything.

  11. Re:Microsoft product design by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They were the bit player in those days. Blackberry was the big guy on the block. What reason would there have been in the last two years to sue Blackberry? It's market share has collapsed quite nicely without needing to set Apple's legal hounds on it.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  12. Re:Every cult needs a villain by artor3 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Whatever you may think of Apple, the fact is that Microsoft's notion of innovation now seems to be "Do what Apple does."

    That's not really true at any meaningful level. Sure, they followed Apple into the phone/tablet market, but they're not at all a copy-cat. Apple came up with a field of icons. Android copied that, and added widgets and a status bar. Apple copied those back. Microsoft came along and made something completely unique. Not necessarily better -- I haven't used it -- but definitely unique.

    Microsoft also makes a video game console with a unique motion sensor, instead of copying Nintendo the way Sony did. Note that the Kinect isn't necessarily better than the Wiimote, but it's certainly different.

    And Microsoft innovated with Bing, adding lots of features that Google has since mimicked: helicopter view in maps, infinite scrolling image search, preview panes on the side, flight searches, etc. Bing isn't better than Google, not by a long shot, but it's certainly not some me-too! copy.

    Really, Microsoft comes up with some innovative stuff. I'm not sure why they're floundering. Maybe it's just bad marketing? But it's certainly not for lack of talented people.

  13. Re: MS providing a huge developer base by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 3, Insightful
    regarding your statement "...since Windows Phone is a new OS with MS providing a huge developer base...":

    Did you happen to see Windows Phone 8 Having Trouble Attracting Developers on /. just about three days ago? What kind of huge developer base is that? MS is not being very developer friendly, considering that last week, /. featured "Trouble For Microsoft Developers With the Windows Store" . Maybe they are letting WPhone7 applications run on 8 and that's what they're counting as part of that "huge developer base."