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Building the Ultimate Safe House

Hugh Pickens writes "Candace Jackson writes that an increasing number of home builders and buyers are looking for a new kind of security: homes equipped to handle everything from hurricanes, tornadoes and hybrid superstorms like this week's Sandy, to man-made threats ranging from home invasion to nuclear war. Fueling the rise of these often-fortresslike homes are new technologies and building materials—which builders say will ultimately be used on a more widespread basis in storm- and earthquake-threatened areas. For example, Alys Beach, a 158-acre luxury seaside community on Florida's Gulf Coast, has earned the designation of Fortified...for safer living® homes and is designed to withstand strong winds. The roofs have two coats of limestone and exterior walls have 8 inches of concrete, reinforced every 32 inches for 'bunkerlike' safety, according to marketing materials. Other builders are producing highly hurricane-proof residences that are circular in shape with 'radial engineering' wherein roof and floor trusses link back to the home's center like spokes on a wheel, helping to dissipate gale forces around the structure. Deltec, a North Carolina–based builder, says it has never lost a circular home to hurricanes in over 40 years of construction. But Doug Buck says some 'extreme' building techniques don't make financial sense. 'You get to a point of diminishing returns,' says Buck. 'You're going to spend so much that honestly, it would make more sense to let it blow down and rebuild it.''

289 comments

  1. Illegal by mrmeval · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It is illegal in some jurisdictions to build fortified homes. Many of the techniques listed would fall under that category. This is for the protection of the police and safety workers of course.

    --
    I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    1. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's illegal, for financial reasons.

      When you have a house made of prefabs, it means that every 50 years you have to tear it down and rebuild. During that time, the land can change hands, the zoning can change as well. Which means people stand to make a lot of money buying and selling.

      Then there's the fact, that, if you build a house indended to have a long lifespan, maintenance will be lower, making it much more cheaper in the long run, in essence, for an individual, it would be a bad investment, for a family though, it's something that will pass from generation to generation.

    2. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have a citation? I believe an Oklahoma city has an ordinance against retrofitting a reinforced door (making it harder for police to kick in drug house doors.)

    3. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that also would provide a benefit to criminals wanting to break into your house. Why not do the infeasible thing and just let citizens fortify their homes but give police officers a key to their house?

    4. Re:Illegal by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Naturally, sponsored by a republican, the same kind that are against government regulation

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You would really trust the government with a key to your house?

    6. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because when your house is on fire, you want the fire department to be able to enter as quickly as possible. Instead of finding the key to your house somewhere at the station, among hundreds of others, an axe works nicely as a universal door opener.

    7. Re:Illegal by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because when your house is on fire, you want the fire department to be able to enter as quickly as possible. Instead of finding the key to your house somewhere at the station, among hundreds of others, an axe works nicely as a universal door opener.

      When my house is made of steel and concrete, it's not on fire. Especially with sprinkler systems to drown carpet/drapes fires.

    8. Re:Illegal by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Now, that's one stupid law.

      Jeff Cooper (famous to some, infamous to others, "Huh?" to most) had an interesting take on home invasions. He believed that the only thing you really needed during a home invasion was time. Literally just a few seconds warning gives you time to react properly and save lives. He used to teach something along the lines of "Your home is going to be invaded through the front door by a murderous gang. Your family, including your toddler grandchildren, is spread about the house. You have two choices. First option - you have the finest, custom-built .45 ever conceived by the mind of man built by the finest 'smith in the world with cost as no object on your belt. Second option - you have a functional but generally piece of crap .32 somewhere in your pocket and ten seconds warning. Which do you choose?"

      The obvious answer is to take the warning time. To that end, he had a very simple entry to his home. It was a long (about 30 feet), narrow courtyard with a heavy, cast-iron gate at the end. Visitors had to ring the bell. He would look through the peephole and if things seemed OK, step outside the door. If he didn't know you, it would be up to you to explain why you were there. If he wanted to let you in, the gate was unlocked by a lever back at the front door.

      In short, if you wanted to home-invade that guy, you'd have to break down a heavy gate (providing warning) and traverse a hallway without cover (aka, a completely merciless killing zone) before you could even reach his front door.

      I thought his solution was elegant and cheap. It required only a couple of adobe walls leading out from the door to his house, an iron arbor "ceiling" for the outdoor room (from which decorative plants hung), and a sturdy gate with a very simply unlocking mechanism that was, essentialy, just a doorknob that extended back 30 feet to the front door.

      If I had a place in the country, I'd consider this a very reasonable way to build an entry. I like entry courtyards, anyway.

      But the law you cite would (arguably, depending on circumstances) make such a design illegal.

      Stupid, stupid law.

    9. Re:Illegal by JJJJust · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well then, thank god for the Knox Box so they can just get the key from right beside the door...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knox_Box

    10. Re:Illegal by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      It shouldn't be long now, before you will have to hand a copy of your keys to the cops, or risk being charged with obstruction and resisting arrest.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re:Illegal by ZombieThoughts · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. A Knox Box does sound like a workable solution. Read the part about its use tripping your security system.

    12. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read an article about in Austin how the city jailed a resident, poured concrete in their home's bong shelter, then handed the resident a $90,000 bill. Even the local code requires large windows in each room to allow the local PD easy shot placing by snipers in case of a raid.

    13. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you truly believe you could never possibly have a fire that requires the fire department to put out, there are other reasons that emergency services should be able to enter your house quickly: For example, EMT's in case of a medical emergency.

    14. Re:Illegal by Kurrel · · Score: 1

      Austin PD would never ruin my bong shelter.

    15. Re:Illegal by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

      What about if some trusted third party, like Porter Industries, held the key in escrow?

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    16. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No ones's going to stop you from building with 16" of Brick in your outer walls and a Slate roof. While it's not bomb grade protection is certainly pretty fortified and completely legal. Many older 30's developments are already like that so you'd just be fortifying within the limits of already approved designs. You'd just need to take care to buy fireproof doors metal doors which are also legal and resist a lot of other things nicely.

    17. Re: Illegal by mspohr · · Score: 1

      My office building has fire department lock box next to the front door.
      Easy entry without an axe.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    18. Re:Illegal by BigBunion · · Score: 2

      What happens when that master key gets out in the wild? It's bound to happen eventually...

    19. Re:Illegal by JJJJust · · Score: 1

      Then the FD should (if they have any sense) help people remove keys from their Knox Boxes until they get new boxes.

      I passed by Knox Boxes for years until I stumbled upon what the hell they were... I doubt the average person is going to know and say "OMG I'VE GOT A KNOX KEY, LET ME BURGLE!"

      Realistically speaking though, what's the harm? So now a bad guy has the keys to your building... that same bad guy could have just thrown a brick through the window or kicked down a door and gotten in anyway.

    20. Re:Illegal by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      It is illegal in some jurisdictions to build fortified homes. Many of the techniques listed would fall under that category. This is for the protection of the police and safety workers of course.

      The police? - So you're saying that a drug dealer would be breaking the law if he fortified his home? - Yes, that will truly be a big problem as he's obviously a law-abiding citizen to begin with. Seriously?

      It is the same stupid reasoning we see again and again: Let make it illegal so we can keep it out of the hands of the criminals because they really care about the law, being criminals to begin with... Doh!

      Let people fortify their homes. Any fortification can be broken so if the police need to make a raid they need to do the right thing to enter, not the usual.

      Here's a reverse example from real life. A company specializing in handling large amounts of cash for major retail businesses was located in a fortified industrial building they shared with a package distributor. Their own part had impenetrable steel doors, thick walls etc. but some very clever thieves knew that the wall inside the building between the two companies was not reinforced. So one day they smashed through the gate to the package distributor, through the gate to the inside of the building and on through the wall to the money company. There they helped themselves to everything and made away with many millions. The thieves have since been caught but the money is gone...

      The morale of the above story is that even the most professional people will leave gaps in the security, and if you really want to enter there's always a way. Maybe you need to crash through the living room wall or down through the roof - but there is a way.

      The castle builders of the middle ages were among the best in physical security and some castles withstood many centuries of attacks, but none has ever not been penetrated at the end. They were all defeated, often through an inside job, a sneak penetration or similar. Most had escape tunnels that could also be used for supplies in case of a long siege, and if they were revealed by the attackers, a few men could enter and kill or kidnap some key people from the castle, and then the game would be up and the castle defeated.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    21. Re:Illegal by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Fire Departments that save houses are a city thing. Around here they just let the houses burn down. House fires don't get put out. Houses don't get saved. They focus on saving people.

      The solution is you build a house that won't burn down. Then you segment the contents so fires won't spread. Then you design your hot things so that they don't start fires. Prevention is far better than a fire department.

    22. Re:Illegal by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Then they can think outside the box and use the glass windows as entry points. Statistically, the chances of them having to put out a fire in my home while I am away are 90,500,324,115,000 to 1 there is a far higher chance that I will be home when there is a fire and the front door will be wide open.

      Got another impossible example? Like what if the Department of homeland security chased a band of terrorists into my home and they locked the door behind them and I am away at my vacation home in Fiji?

      Ohh, what if a meteorite that contained a space based virus crashed into my home and CDC could not get in to contain it, thus it spread and killed off the human race while I was out to get ice cream at Ben and Jerrys!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    23. Re:Illegal by shiftless · · Score: 0

      What about if some trusted third party, like Porter Industries, held the key in escrow?

      What if no?

    24. Re:Illegal by shiftless · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Realistically speaking though, what's the harm? So now a bad guy has the keys to your building... that same bad guy could have just thrown a brick through the window or kicked down a door and gotten in anyway.

      Not if your house is fortified, stupid ass. Try to keep up.

    25. Re:Illegal by EvolutionInAction · · Score: 2

      Do you have any idea how combustible the contents of your house are? Your bed, your rug, your curtains and desks and clothes and everything will burn with a ferocity that might surprise you. The sprinklers will probably work. If some stupid homeowner hasn't put a false ceiling over them, anyway. A lot about the firefighting profession is saving people from their own stupidity.

    26. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government would come in directly through the walls using techniques developed by the IDF.

    27. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if you're secure in your home and you have a heart-attack while in the bath-tub? Not a slow one where you might have a few hours to make it to the hospital, but one where you have minutes before certain death?

      Or what if your kids has a gun and shoots you by accident while secured?

      I don't know how it is in your area, but in some places I've been, the fire department and paramedics share the same unit. It's not unreasonable to have the same security normally used to protect killing you for being too secure.

    28. Re:Illegal by nurb432 · · Score: 2

      Screw them. The only reason they would be entering my house would be if they were committing an illegal act and they would have bigger problems. I shoot intruders on the spot.

      Why should i make it easy for them to violate my rights?

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    29. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not a fortified house as in TFAs, just fortifying entrances where a drug felony is being committed or attempted. Just a piling on statute. Do no drug felonies and you can live in a bunker. Stupid but doesn't really apply.

    30. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then I'm dead- it'll take "minutes" for help to arrive anyway.

      Or what if your kids has a gun and shoots you by accident while secured?

      No guns.

      Try again.

    31. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um...

      Bad guys shoot back. They can easily stick a 12 gauge with buckshot and clear the hall just as easily as the homeowner.

    32. Re:Illegal by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And what sort of cover do these bad guys have while they're ineffectively dinging the front of this guy's house? A fortified home can be easily cracked by enough people with good tactics and decent equipment. Hanging out at the front of the killing zone and doing stupid stuff isn't going to do it.

      And that leads us to another point. Why crack a fortified home, when an unfortified one is available? A lot of the rationale behind this sort of thing is that it makes your home look a lot less vulnerable than the home next door. Unless the bad guys have a reason to break into this particular home, they'll be greatly encouraged to just go elsewhere.

    33. Re:Illegal by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. Not when the homeowner has a steel plate, wood-veneered front door that can withstand a .50 Browning AP round and is also equipped with an APC-style firing port.

    34. Re:Illegal by mikael · · Score: 1

      They already do - with snib locks (those |/ shaped bolts), they would have little plastic cards that are soft enough to bend round a door, but strong enough to push the bolt back.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    35. Re:Illegal by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      I need a sarcasm font. The last two words should have been the clue needed to see that I was being sarcastic.

      You can if you were to read up on it find out building techniques that give police or other JBTs fits. Some will be in court cases others in police training manuals. That will also show what data they look up on a property before executing the warrant.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    36. Re:Illegal by flyneye · · Score: 1

      That's why I'd hide a papercrete monolithic dome under a layer of lead and earth with grass and stuff planted on it and the entryway on the backside of the " building". The tax assessor would see the trailerhouse " up front" . Use it for a guest house, or storage for your crap. If the wrong people show up, then nobody's home! You are secure in your nice energy efficient dome complete with escape tunnels and a steel , outward opening door behind some bushes.
      This all assumes rural living of course. Then once you are safe from people threats stock up on gopher purge and whip out your mallet to protect yourself from the Mole People.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    37. Re:Illegal by Entropy98 · · Score: 1

      Couldn't any home-invaders just walk around his narrow courtyard??

    38. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thankfully, most states seem to be more sane and haven't passed similar laws. Of course, the letter of the law says "access points", so you could fortify the structure so long as firemen can break down your door if need be.

    39. Re:Illegal by dabadab · · Score: 1

      When my house is made of steel and concrete, it's not on fire

      Well, it can be. Around here there are lots of high-rise buildings built of steel-reinforced concrete. Let me tell you: they can burn. Not the concrete, mind you, but all the stuff that's in there, their burning generates enough heat that the fire can spread in the building.

      --
      Real life is overrated.
    40. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Anyone with enough money to build a house that nice should be able to afford some kind of monitoring service too which can open the doors remotely if they need to, in case the occupants are old enough for this to be a possible scenario.

    41. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Anyone building a house with 8" thick concrete walls and a hurricane-proof design is not going to put a false ceiling over their sprinklers; they're going to use one builder who specializes in this home construction, who's highly competent, and won't make stupid mistakes like this. These aren't the kind of people who are going to hire some dumbass contractor off Craigslist to make some stupid changes, they're going to go back to the original builder for everything. And this kind of builder isn't the typical yahoo builder who slaps up shitty subdivision homes.

    42. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Right, and these commercial buildings are well-built and use very nice automatic sprinkler systems. That's the same standard these kind of houses are built to, not the typical shitty residential standards.

    43. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Some other simple tools for dealing with home invasions in case you can't build a custom house with a 30-foot hallway entrance:
      1) a good guard dog. You don't need a big dog here, just a little Chihuahua is fine, but you need a dog that knows who belongs and who doesn't, and starts barking any time someone new approaches the house. The key isn't to have a dog that can attack the invaders (sometimes, such dogs attack you or your kids), but to have a dog that'll alert you and wake you up if you're asleep.
      2) a shotgun.
      3) a family plan to retreat into a back bedroom, and then if any intruders come in, blast them. Never try to go find them, wait for them to come to you.

    44. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We're talking about houses with fortified concrete walls here. You'll need a bulldozer to breach them.

    45. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Exactly, we're talking about home invaders here, not Special Ops forces. Anyone who makes a career out of home invasions generally isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

    46. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's one big problem with your secret underground house idea: maybe you're OK with it, but most people actually like to have some kind of view from their home. Rich people (the ones who can afford secret underground houses) especially like them: that's why their homes have giant glass walls so they can see some ocean or other scenic vista from their living room. I think women tend to also like having some kind of view, so even if you're rich enough to afford a secret underground house with a shitty trailer on top, good luck finding a wife who wants to live there with you.

      As for the tax assessor, people rich enough for this typically don't worry that much about property taxes, plus it's pretty hard to keep such a place a secret because the construction phase is almost impossible to hide.

    47. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Civil engineer here.

      Steel structures are much more vulnerable to fire than wood structures.

      Sure, wood is combustible. Yet, what really burns isn't the structure but its contents.

      So, you place a stack of firewood in a structure (i.e., a couch), set it on fire and watch everything go to hell.

      Steel about 50% of its strength if heated about 200 degrees, while wood just loses its section. Its hard to hold a structure up when its structural members start to bend like putty.

    48. Re:Illegal by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      America is a scary place. Either everyone is paranoid or you really do need to worry about random armed home invasions where you and your family might be murdered and the best defence is a loaded weapon and well crafted "merciless killing zone".

      They say an Englishman's home is his castle but most of them are not fortified like that guy's.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    49. Re:Illegal by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Ha, you wish. I used to write software for fire suppression and smoke extract systems. Small buildings all the way up to the London Olympic Athlete's Village.

      All buildings burn. There is plenty of flammable stuff in them, stuff that the sprinkler system can't prevent burning. Wall insulation. Ceiling tiles. Stuff in rooms not covered by the sprinkler system. Assuming it works of course, as gas explosion or other catastrophic event could easily break it due to lack of water pressure or damaged plumbing.

      Sprinklers are not designed to do the fire fighter's job for them, they are designed to try and contain small fires and slow the spread of larger ones, giving people time to escape. In fact they are going out of fashion because spraying water onto electrical items and people who are already seeing smoke and trying to get out isn't such a good idea.

      The best option is a fan on the roof to suck smoke out via dedicated extract ducts. It can be used for a bit of ventilation as well, using a second non-critical fan. Smoke extract gives you the best chance of getting out alive. The building might burn down but you can always rebuild it with the insurance money, where as family members can't be replaced.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    50. Re:Illegal by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      A fortified home or a fortified illusion. Just a new exercise in marketing targeted at the gullible. They'll pay extra to live in an unsafe zone and the profits will pour in. Guess what happens when there is a major hurricane and those fortified properties get flattened, the developers declares bankruptcy and moves to the Bahamas and lives off that grossly inflated salary they earned while building those 'fortified illusions' and they'll be screaming about the taxes they have to pay for those free loaders who lost everything when their fortified homes were destroyed by the storm surge. Want to be hurricane safe move to some where without hurricanes, now that's just plain common sense.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    51. Re:Illegal by budgenator · · Score: 1

      There is no sound on earth that is more blood cruddling than the sound of a remington pump action shootgun racking in a round.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    52. Re:Illegal by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Firemen can break down just about anything between the gasoline operated abrasive wheel saws and the "Jaws of Life". If it gets to tough for them, there's alway det-cord and duct tape to cut through the hinges and latches in one big bang.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    53. Re:Illegal by khallow · · Score: 2

      The problem with calling it an "illusion" is that it's not. All that costly structure will make the home safer in the event of a hurricane and many other such things. And when such a home gets washed away by a storm surge? I'll bet that a direct hit by hurricane isn't covered by the warranty.

    54. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I prefer the Mossberg 590 myself. The thumb-actuated safety is superior IMO to Remington's right-handed-only finger safety and the barrel shroud is a nice feature.

    55. Re:Illegal by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 1

      Woohoo! I am a mastermind living in an inflamable, undestructible super-house! I RULE! So does pretty much everyone else in town, since 10" firewalls are mandatory here. Which does not matter, because the good old Northern European outside brick wall is 36.5cm (~15"). But believe it or not - this crap still burns nicely. Even medieval towns with really massive stone walls burned down regularly, until modern zoning laws, wide, straight main streets and fire brigades came up.

      --
      Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
    56. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That's because your houses are old and don't have sprinklers. Over here, no one has houses like that: not one single person, out of 310M. The only people with houses with walls like that are very wealthy, and have sprinklers, and such houses are all quite new.

    57. Re:Illegal by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      what the hell? why would you trust this 'porter industries'? How about just keeping control over your property and demanding that government leave you alone?

    58. Re:Illegal by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      wouldn't that also draw in fresh air below, adding fuel to the fire?

    59. Re:Illegal by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2

      Not really. One in front and one in back take care of the only two doors to the house.

      Windows were designed with security in mind. I never knew what his garage door precautions were like.

      Remember, though, this guy wasn't building a fortress to withstand a prolonged siege. He just wanted the obvious entry points, the doors, sufficiently well-designed so that home invaders would be forced to give him a few seconds warning.

      It's not like he had bullet-proof windows, for example. In fact, there's one famous story about him showing off the excellent trigger pull on his Smith and Wesson M29 .44 Magnum revolver to a visitor. He opened the cylinder, dropped the cartridges into his hand, closed the cylinder and took aim out his front window at the gas meter and dry-fired the gun, commenting on how great the trigger was. Then he let the visitor try it and the visitor was duly impressed. Then he dry-fired it one last time, just out of a sense of satisfaction at how fine a trigger pull it exhibited. Remember, he was sitting in his den, aiming at a gas meter, through a picture window.

      The gun fired. When the commotion and surprise died down, he checked his pocket. When he had unloaded the revolver, only 5 cartridges had dropped out. One, for whatever reason, had stuck in the cylinder.

      Jeff Cooper, The Man Who Invented Modern Pistolcraft, simply did not have negligent discharges. He was shaken by the incident, to say the least.

      Later, a group of his friends hatched a plot, met the gas company guy who came out to replace the meter, and bought the faceplate from the repairman. They mounted it to a plaque and waited until another (legit) awards ceremony was happening whereupon they took the opportunity to present him with an award honoring the notion that he was, in fact, human and capable of making mistakes. Luckily, they guy had a good sense of humor about it.

      Sorry to get sidetracked but the guy was an amazing and fascinating character.

    60. Re:Illegal by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      "That guy" lived in the middle of Arizona. Law enforcement help, under the best of circumstances, could not arrive in under an hour. Under those circumstances, a little self-reliance is a good thing.

      And if you've never heard of biker gangs deciding to descend, en masse, on isolated ranch houses in the western U.S., you might want to read up on the subject. It's not common but it has happened.

    61. Re:Illegal by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Here's a reverse example from real life. A company specializing in handling large amounts of cash for major retail businesses was located in a fortified industrial building they shared with a package distributor. Their own part had impenetrable steel doors, thick walls etc. but some very clever thieves knew that the wall inside the building between the two companies was not reinforced. So one day they smashed through the gate to the package distributor, through the gate to the inside of the building and on through the wall to the money company. There they helped themselves to everything and made away with many millions. The thieves have since been caught but the money is gone...

      The morale of the above story is that even the most professional people will leave gaps in the security, and if you really want to enter there's always a way. Maybe you need to crash through the living room wall or down through the roof - but there is a way.

      Yes hindsight is always 20/20, but whoever didn't draw a top-down map with the fortified walls hilighted and notice half of the entire bloody building was unprotected was a fucking idiot.

    62. Re:Illegal by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      A good guard dog is a good thing, for sure, and the only answer for inside the house.

      Personally, if I lived in an isolated area, I'd also raise guinea fowl to serve as an exterior alarm. They provide eggs, they're good to eat, and it's impossible to cross their yard without the whole bunch of them letting loose with some of the loudest, most annoying vocalizations in the animal kingdom. Seriously - nobody, I mean nobody, not even some 15th-generation super-ninja can approach your house without setting off a holy hell of a ruckus if you keep guineas around the house.

      On points 2 and 3, I agree. Traditionally, there's also a point 4 on that list - have a cell phone to call for help in case the land line is cut. Nowadays, people don't usually bother to include that last bit since nearly all of us have cells with us all the time, anyway.

    63. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bong shelter

      WTF?!

      Austin ... bong shelter

      Ahhhhh. That does make sense.

    64. Re:Illegal by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      For every honest centre moderate builder, there will be two tea bagger builders who will do it cheaper and I mean cheaper, not thats the reality, which is exactly why tea baggers are always screaming 'NO REGULATION' they know they are going to lie, cheat and steal, it's the Ayn Rand Objectivist way.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    65. Re:Illegal by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Those (bulldozers) are exactly what the IDF (that the GP mentioned) use. Your post adds zero information.

      Learn to read before answering, you fucking clown.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    66. Re:Illegal by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The system is usually designed so that it actually lowers the overall air pressure where the fire is. Furthermore the goal is to contain the fire and stop is spreading, rather than put it out.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    67. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you have tattoos and everything.

    68. Re:Illegal by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The castle builders of the middle ages were among the best in physical security and some castles withstood many centuries of attacks

      I'd have thought that if the besiegers hadn't got bored the garrison would have died of old age.

      Most had escape tunnels that could also be used for supplies in case of a long siege

      Interesting. As someone who was quite into castles as a kid, I know of no such tunnel for Warwick, Carlisle, Edinburgh, the Tower Of London, York, the unspellable Welsh ones or any other that I've visited.

      As to how you'd hide a sufficiently large tunnel entrance and get a supply convoy to without the enemy spotting it...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    69. Re:Illegal by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Theres always the hidden cameras on a flatscreen.

      I dunno , Monolithic domes go up just as fast as you can pour the concrete. The underground tunnels could be done building on the previous work of the Mole men.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    70. Re:Illegal by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "Or what if your kids has a gun and shoots you by accident while secured?"

      My kids and grandkids are all trained properly in firearms handling and use. That wont happen. I don't have a home where I am a retard and own guns and never train my kids how to use or handle one. My daughter was 8 when I took her to the range to fire a .22 pistol and a rifle. Before then she was taught about them, to not touch them, and all guns are in safes or with trigger locks ANYWAYS.

      What kind of scumbag loser leaves a loaded handgun laying around? Maybe a drug dealer or coke head might....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    71. Re:Illegal by khallow · · Score: 1

      "tea bagger builders"? "screaming 'NO REGULATION'"? "Ayn Rand Objectivist way"?

      I'd have to say that you have a poor coping mechanism for minor disagreement. There's always a problem with fraudulent builders and maybe the people who go for fortified homes will be particularly vulnerable to that sort of exploitation. Doesn't mean the fraud will be associated with groups du jour that you happen to dislike.

      Don't get me wrong. I hope the Tea Party movement wins this election big and reverses a lot of the authoritarian crap that has been collecting for the past couple of decades. But I don't see your concerns as having anything to do with them, and it's pointless to introduce ideology here.

      Maybe the internets just isn't for you.

    72. Re:Illegal by westlake · · Score: 1

      When my house is made of steel and concrete, it's not on fire. Especially with sprinkler systems to drown carpet/drapes fires.

      It isn't the fire that kills you.

      It's the smoke.

      You can't see a thing.

      You are desperately afraid of losing contact with a wall. Something familiar. Something that can guide you out.

      Carbon Monoxide poisoning is insidious.

      Your mind is fogged and sluggish. Your movements are awkward.

    73. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poster #41863897 here.

      If I'm willing to trust the government with my tax information, why shouldn't I trust them with my house key? (Obviously this and my original post were intended as a joke.)

      Those with criminal intent will ignore the law and do what they want to do anyways. Making it illegal will harm the innocent. Just like outlawing guns will make sure only outlaws have guns.

    74. Re:Illegal by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Want to be hurricane safe move to some where without hurricanes, now that's just plain common sense.

      Like Manhattan seemed to be until less than two years ago.

    75. Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Never heard about guinea fowl; sounds interesting. How about geese? I've heard those can be useful for making a lot of noise, and they're quite mean and will attack people.

    76. Re:Illegal by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      ... which is morning one of your basic fire training. By the end of the second day, you've got over your panic attacks, and while you recognise that this is a serious, rapidly fatal situation, it's not exactly the first time that you've done this (what have you been doing for the last couple of days, after all?).

      Days 3 and 4 you got breathing apparatus. And the temperature in the fire rooms went up a hundred degrees (Kelvin).

      You did take the fire training courses that you were offered when you started work, didn't you? It's sweaty, somewhat dangerous, unpleasant, but ultimately confidence inspiring.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    77. Re:Illegal by gsogeek · · Score: 1

      Most places already have a way around this in the inclusion of a "Knox box" on the side of house, near a door. Mostly used in commercial applications, but they are starting to show up in the residential area as well. It works by placing an armoured, keyed box near the door which is tied into the alarm system. When a fire breaks out, the FD shows up, opens the Knox with the Agency's master key, trips the alarm, then unlocks the door and enters. If the building is burning enough that they can't open the box and then open the door, hitting it with an axe and providing fresh air for the fire is going to be a bad idea in the first place.
      Next time you're at the shopping center or store of your choice, look near the doors for the little metal box with a bit of red reflective tape on it, that's the Knox Box.

      --
      All systems working, customers satisfied, and staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready for flight.
    78. Re:Illegal by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Even medieval towns with really massive stone walls burned down regularly

      You mean the things that were mostly wood and thatch with stone veneer? Of course they burned down!

    79. Re:Illegal by belmolis · · Score: 1

      Here's an example of the tools used by the IDF: MATADOR.

    80. Re:Illegal by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

      I know the owner of Porter Industries and he is a very honourable and courageous man. And an excellent dancer.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    81. Re:Illegal by surd1618 · · Score: 1

      Maybe you could find a scap water tower and install some port windows. If you're really paranoid you could keep a .50 up there. So then the general populace would see a double-wide and a weird water tower, and not your jacuzzi-infested underground laboratory/bar superdome suite.

    82. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One key for the fire department that sets off all alarms. I have my warning. The other keys are for family members. A guest key that expires. I use technology. I thought some surplus military ground sensors would be cool but they were archaic crap. I found a couple very expensive devices. I went with simple exterior PIR units at angles that don't allow the "Freon hole", you know spray a plywood plank down with freeze spray walk up to the sensor and spray it with paint? It won't stop a chill suit so I have pressure sensors for that.

    83. Re:Illegal by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      It seems Porter Industries has hired someone to pump up their image. I don't know about them and went to look. They've gamed several search engines. Do you have a link to the article or some more information that would find the right information in a search?

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    84. Re:Illegal by bahamuut · · Score: 1

      Why crack a fortified home, when an unfortified one is available? A lot of the rationale behind this sort of thing is that it makes your home look a lot less vulnerable than the home next door. Unless the bad guys have a reason to break into this particular home, they'll be greatly encouraged to just go elsewhere.

      I couldn't agree with you more!

      Most of the people emulating the habits of the elites have no idea why they're even doing what they're doing. The people taking these precautions for real have tens if not hundreds of billions of reasons why a "murderous gang" (NLP anyone?) might want to get at them... they might not be "ashamed of their success" (i.e shitting on people) but they're not stupid either... I'm all for hard work and reaping what one sews, but it's quite obvious that many of these folks have reaped waaaaaay more than what they have sewn. If one believes in the murderous gang meme, it's pretty safe to infer that they also believe in Terrorists who just want to kill us because they hate our way of life, Bloodthirsty Gangbangers (ironically ran by the police in most places with gang problems..) who kill indiscriminately, The tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus. This is obviously a poor attempt to distribute the issues of a few people to the masses. Home invasion does happen, but the odds are so low, most people need not modify their architecture to compensate for this. All that being said; when I build a house, best believe it will be zombie proof! HUNTING SEASON OPENS SOON..........

      --
      like a man without arms, you can't hang......
    85. Re:Illegal by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

      This problem has already been solved, Google "Knox Box". The FD has a universal key to open the knox box (which are all keyed alike) inside of which are the keys to the individual premise. If you look at commercial buildings such as retail, restaurants, etc, you'll probably see a knox box next to their front door. As far as I know nobody has managed to steal a master key for the knox boxes, but I'm not sure how they manage to keep such tight control on them considering every FD has at least one of them.

    86. Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guineas are some of the stupidest animals on earth though. You pretty much have to raise chickens as well so the stupid things won't wander off, get lost, and forget how to get back.

  2. Rather bunkers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YMMV.

  3. Teletubbies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always thought the teletubbies' house looked pretty hurricane proof.

    http://i.imgur.com/rh8Vu.png

  4. dramatic design hype by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 2

    You don't need a nuclear bunker design to weather even a 180 mph hurricane. Less dramatic design techniques have been around a while.

    1. Re:dramatic design hype by Nyder · · Score: 1

      You don't need a nuclear bunker design to weather even a 180 mph hurricane. Less dramatic design techniques have been around a while.

      I think they call them cellars...

      --
      Be seeing you...
    2. Re:dramatic design hype by Zemran · · Score: 2

      Cellars are a really bad idea in the event of flooding...

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    3. Re:dramatic design hype by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I think they call them cellars...

      How do you put a whole house into a cellar?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:dramatic design hype by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      like this. Yeah, humans basically figured out this problem in the Stone Age.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    5. Re:dramatic design hype by smpoole7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > I think they call them cellars...

      When the tornadoes came through Alabama on April 27th, 2011, I know of at least two cases where people died in nice, deep cellars. In once case, the storm that tracked through Phil Campbell, AL actually picked up a vehicle and dropped it on a family, killing everyone.

      Unless you reinforce the "roof" (typically the first floor of the home) over the cellar, or take other steps to ensure that things can't fall in on you (and this includes debris from a catastrophic collapse of the house itself), a basement won't necessarily protect you from an F4 or F5 "monster" tornado.

      Around here, most folks seem to prefer the separate buried shelters. They have to run in the rain and wind to get into it, but they prefer that to trusting an "interior room" or a basement.

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    6. Re:dramatic design hype by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Cellars fill with water.

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:dramatic design hype by louden+obscure · · Score: 2

      you start with a deeper hole...

      --
      Serenity now, insanity later.
    8. Re:dramatic design hype by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Which gets back to why it is an exercise in diminishing returns; site selection becomes more important, then site fortification, then building fortification. Anything like this should likely be done in layers: no damage/impact from 20-year events, cosmetic damage and minor loss of functional use for portions of the building for 100-year events, and something adequate to provide shelter and comfort when prepared for 500-year events. Think Pentagon with the rings; outermost is sacrificial in this context.

      Backup power is a similar issue-- to withstand 7 days of utility outage a house might want 300 gallons of diesel. But, that diesel needs to be used within 3 months to avoid the need of polishing. So, you need to use about 100 gallons per month in your car to rotate through it. That is pretty much fuel to have around the house.

    9. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why you get your power usage down to a level where you can survive with your own solar and wind, and some batteries...

    10. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome. I only knew Skara Brae as a town from Ultima Online, I had no idea about the real version. Thanks.

    11. Re:dramatic design hype by Migraineman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most people don't comprehend the "layers" concept. We lost power for three solid days. I've got a 2kW inverter and four Group 31 deep-cycle batteries to power the fridge and sump pump. They will hold me for 48-hours with realistic power management. We have a 200A alternator on the garden tractor that will recharge a battery in under an hour. We used about two gallons of gasoline keeping the electricity available.

      We heated two rooms (kitchen and living room) with firewood and the fireplace. We abandoned the entire second floor of the house. We purchased several suitcases of water prior to the storm's arrival (can't run the well pump with the current setup - a liability I *will* resolve.) The pantry was stocked with canned goods (i.e. baked beans, etc) that could be eaten right out of the can. We have two extra propane tanks for the gas grill. We sacrificed our normal behavior during the crisis, and had zero expectation that "business as usual" would return until well after power was restored.

      If you're going to build a "survivable" residence, it needs to have a small core that's extremely energy/resource efficient. Simply adding armor to the outside might be an easy sell from the builder's perspective, but it's only one piece of the survive-the-crisis puzzle. As evidenced by the problems in NYC right now, as soon as the storm passes, your supply lines become an even bigger issue.

    12. Re:dramatic design hype by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      How do you put a whole house into a cellar?

      To be sure Seumas, you had the feckin' plans upside down, so you did.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      bank i wish to cross vendor sell guards

    14. Re:dramatic design hype by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      First of all don't build where flooding is a problem.

      Second, practice mitigation.

    15. Re:dramatic design hype by Zemran · · Score: 1

      When I was growing up, I used to stay with my Grandparents on the west coast of Scotland as often as I could. I learnt about getting ready for winter and it wasn't a problem, it was just part of life. So when I went to live there for a while about 20 years ago to look after my Gran in her final years, I knew about spending some time through the summer, cutting wood etc. and getting things ready for winter. What really shocked me was how many people have moved into these remote areas without any clue about how to survive a serious storm. In my last winter there the snow got to 15 feet deep in places and there was no communication at all. No traffic could get in or out and there was no power or phones. People died because they would go out in their cars and get stuck. I had 4x4 and I would not leave the main road into town and back again.

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    16. Re:dramatic design hype by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yup. I can build a home that can withstand a Category 6 storm easily. And it can look like most other homes. Step 1 is to beat the shit out of the contractor and tell him that using crap quality materials that saves him money are not acceptable. 3/4" 7 ply plywood on ALL exterior surfaces, not this chip board crap that is not even useful to hold up a wet bag. real siding and real bricks not this fake crap you see on most all homes built. 6 inch and 8 inch thick outside walls on 16" stud centers.. not the new 24" centers that are allowed. REAL storm shutters and not the plastic fake crap. etc...

      It is not hard to build this stuff, what is hard is finding a contractor that is not an incompetent tool to build it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:dramatic design hype by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Why? store in the basement 800 watts of solar panels you can drag out and put in the sun. that is only 4 200 watt panels that are about 5 feet tall. run them inside to a bank of 6 deep cycle batteries that should have been kept charged up from the AC when no storms were happening. a small 1000 watt inverter will keep the important stuff running. maybe get a small gas generator as well. you only need to change out the batteries every 8 years.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    18. Re:dramatic design hype by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Why buy water? why not buy 5-6 5 gallon food grade clean buckets and fill them yourself, saves a lot of money and gives you far more water. go fancy and the the 7 gallon pails with a spigot at the bottom from your local beer brewing store. I would rather have the pails as I can get my water supply set from a faucet 1 hour before the world ends instead of having to fight my neighbors who are in panic mode at the store.

      Also a kerosene heater is also safe to use inside with venting. better choice for those that don't have a fireplace. 1, 5 gallon can of kerosene can heat the living space for over 1 week if used properly. And kerosene stores for years without degrading.

      Lastly, CASH is important to have in your pantry. About $200-$500 in all small bills. NYC residents are discovering that ATM machines and credit card terminals dont work and cash is king.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    19. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This assumes, of course, that you have the one hour, and aren't out trying to reassure neighbors.

    20. Re:dramatic design hype by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Around here, most folks seem to prefer the separate buried shelters. They have to run in the rain and wind to get into it, but they prefer that to trusting an "interior room" or a basement.

      Tunnels that connect these to your basement are not all that hard to add. You can then quickly and safely head to it from the house. Of course you still want another way out in case your house does totally collapse, so you are not trapped in the shelter.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    21. Re:dramatic design hype by fredklein · · Score: 1
    22. Re:dramatic design hype by khallow · · Score: 1

      Unless you reinforce the "roof" (typically the first floor of the home) over the cellar, or take other steps to ensure that things can't fall in on you (and this includes debris from a catastrophic collapse of the house itself), a basement won't necessarily protect you from an F4 or F5 "monster" tornado.

      The only perfect protection is to not be there in the first place.

    23. Re:dramatic design hype by mikael · · Score: 1

      How do you put a whole house into a cellar?

      Make it retractable like they had in Stingray. Though I always wondered why they didn't just build the apartments underground in the first place.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    24. Re:dramatic design hype by smpoole7 · · Score: 2

      > The only perfect protection is to not be there in the first place.

      Sure, but (of course) that's sometimes difficult to do in real life.

      Here's what I learned that April: we had plenty of advanced warning that something really bad would happen, but no one could predict exactly *where* the tornadoes would hit. Tornadoes aren't like tropical storms (and believe me, I've had plenty of experience with those things, too!). You can't track them for days, watching the slow progress as they head toward land, constantly refining the models. Realistically, you might get a tornado watch 24 hours in advance, but at best, only 30 minutes warning once the twister touches down. They brew up, cause catastrophic destruction, then dissipate.

      So ... OK, let's leave; where do we go? For all we knew on April 26th, they could appear anywhere in Alabama. You might leave your home, run to another city, only to have THAT one get hit instead of where your home is at. :)

      The one that hit Cordova, AL was a good (bad) example. They had very little warning, and there were many people in the local Piggly Wiggly supermarket grabbing last minute groceries when it hit. The building was flattened.

      The Phil Campbell story is the one that gives me the chills. The family I mentioned did as well as they could, piling into their "safe place" (the basement), only to be killed anyway.

      You don't always get enough advance warning, or specific enough of a warning, to simply "go somewhere else."

      And believe me, you don't want to be driving in tornado weather. (Even if you don't experience the high winds, you liable to come around a curve and find a tree in the road, with no time to stop. Speaking from experience.) Once they announce the warnings, the best thing to do is to find a safe place, hunker down, and just pray for the best.

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    25. Re:dramatic design hype by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      Let's se. I've seen in my 43 years, the Shenandoah Valley flood [100 yr event], the 9-11 event [maybe a 200 year event?], the Indian Ocean tsunami [1000 year event], the Japanese tsunami [500 year event], Katrina [50?], and now Sandy. So... if the US has a massive earthquake and the country cracks in two, or if a georeactor blows and we get another massive lava trap, will that be classified as a 1000, 10000, or 100000 year event? How about if we just lose a war on our own soil, and spend 10 years under occupation?

      There's not only diminishing returns; there's a basic inability to comprehend the present, much less the future.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    26. Re:dramatic design hype by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Well I live in Michigan and Sandy meant 4 days without any significant sunlight, and a lot of people were without power for those 4 days, so I can't see solar panels really helping anyone on the Jersey coast.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    27. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solar, with replacement cells in a fortified location, w/ backup generator (for short term use), and possibly wind turbines (from converted car alternators) (since those will be in abundance after the storm) Dremel, safety glasses, soldering iron (to repair damaged connections in solar panels), (optional induction forage with 3D printer using wax and sand to allow for easy fabrication of damaged parts) wire (lots of wire, of many different gauges), rope, electric stove, solar water purification, and solar water heating, flood pump, dehydrated food, hunting supplies (I prefer compound bow, because arrows are often reusable unlike bullets), and finally friends lots of slightly paranoid friends.

      Oh and the most important part books, lost of books describing all of technology. Because if your the only one in town who has power, and everyone else wants it you need to have some value (Eg, keeping that power) else you wont have your home very long.

      To be honest it's my belief that Evey town should have a fortified facility equipped with much of the equipment I mentioned here, and have it be large enough to handle a fairly large portion of the population, so that if the worst happens this facility can be used to help the population get back on it's feet. Sandy and Katrina, the tsunami, etc.. have proven that mother nature can take everything we have (for at least part of the population). What we need now is not fast response teams but instead response centers that are designed to get the population back on it's feet quickly, the current system costs lives while we wait. A center like the one i outlined could allow a few people or even a large number of people to get get them selves back on their feet even without government support. The best part is that other than the solar panels I mentioned, most everything else is cheap. I'm not rich, but i have about half of the stuff mentioned. And should worse come to worse, I'd gather together with my friends and rebuild what we have and or need. While everyone else sat around an waited for assistance we would make our own assistance.

    28. Re:dramatic design hype by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      to withstand 7 days of utility outage a house might want 300 gallons of diesel.

      umm, that sounds like rather a lot. According to http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Consumption.aspx that is enough fuel to keep a 20KW generator running at full load for a week. Afaict average domestic power consumption is more like a tenth of that.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    29. Re:dramatic design hype by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      How many of these impacted you directly?

    30. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why buy water? why not buy 5-6 5 gallon food grade clean buckets and fill them yourself, saves a lot of money and gives you far more water.

      The water is cheaper:

      http://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Purified-Water-24ct/13448854
      (buy 12.7 gallons of water at the price of 1 5-gallon bucket, before shipping)
      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=food+grade+bucket&oq=food+grade+bucket&gs_l=products-cc.3..0l2j0i5l4.2147.4886.0.5020.19.16.1.1.2.0.187.1907.4j11.15.0...0.0...1ac.1.4d_sZ_OhLvQ

      The cost of "water" is not the "water" so much as it is the packaging and shelf space. No concerns with the last bottle being scum-filled backwash as you'd have with that nasty bucket someone's nose hair landed in. Fucking nasty ass person you are.

    31. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that a 100 year event means it'll happen in that place (river basin, etc.) estimated 1% chance in a given year. If you've got several such places, you expect several % chance of an event in any of them.

      Prob & stats: it was worth staying awake.

    32. Re:dramatic design hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And believe me, you don't want to be driving in tornado weather. (Even if you don't experience the high winds, you liable to come around a curve and find a tree in the road, with no time to stop. Speaking from experience.)

      In all fairness, if you come around any corner, see any stationary object, and don't have time to stop, you're by definition driving too fast for conditions...

    33. Re:dramatic design hype by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      WEll I live in michigan and we still had sunlight. enough for my permanent solar panels to generate power for 4 hours each day. Do you know anything about solar?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    34. Re:dramatic design hype by Migraineman · · Score: 1

      I think you're missing the point slightly. This isn't about the cost-effectiveness of pulling water from the tap, but rather the willingness (or ability) to ask the question "What do I need if I lose power for a week?" Most of the people I know will respond "I'll just go to WalMart." This is a symptom of our transition to a disposable economy, where problems are solved by buying something or hiring someone. People don't think for themselves anymore, and they end up in dire straits when they have to fend for themselves. If NYC can't resolve the gasoline supply issues soon, be prepared for the "Gasoline Riots of 2012."

      So, if you live in an apartment building, and you lose municipal water for a week, where are you going to poop? This becomes a serious problem when a million or so urban dwellers are faced with the same issue, and all decide to crap outside somewhere ... like in the street.

    35. Re:dramatic design hype by khallow · · Score: 1

      The point here is that "safe" is not an optimization problem. Even doing things right can still lead to risk of death. With a cellar shelter, the point is that you have a much better chance of survival, than chilling outside with the flying glass shards and timber beams. You can do other things to improve your chances of survival. They might even be worth the bother.

      But let's consider your examples of defenses. Reinforce the top of the cellar basement to handling dropped cars and houses or run outside to a separate shelter. In the first case, the tornado can drop these items on you with pretty arbitrary levels of force (the car can get pretty high before it gets dropped).

      In the second case, you might not make it to the shelter before the tornado arrives. And a dropped car with enough kinetic energy might still mess up your day. So you have two modes of defense that have some value, but also some cost and in the case of the outdoor shelter, some drawbacks.

      For a tornado shelter, I do see some value in reinforcing the shelter. But not that much. F4 and F5 tornadoes are pretty rare and they're pretty survivable even in a unreinforced basement. But if a better shelter helps you sleep at night, then the emotional support might be worth it, even if riskwise, it doesn't provide much of value.

    36. Re:dramatic design hype by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      It's ha|d to say what exactly is 'directly'.My home was in the Shenandoah, but it was on a ridge, And I was a little further south at school atthetime, so ME? No. Family? Yes. Hurricane Isaac, yes. 9-11, yes. All of these are part of destroying our government, though--so they ALL impact me directly in that sense.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  5. The best safe house by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is friends far away and the means to get to where they life.

  6. Your fortified home needs land around it by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The home may survive, but if it's beachfront, you may find the distance from your bunker to the waves is a lot less when you emerge after the hurricane.

    1. Re:Your fortified home needs land around it by lkcl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The home may survive, but if it's beachfront, you may find the distance from your bunker to the waves is a lot less when you emerge after the hurricane.

      yeah. i mention sthapatyaveda in another post, but the "rules" for sthapatyaveda include never putting a building in a valley, or under a cliff, or within 1 mile of any kind of large body of water. there are about 30 "rules" for choosing a site, and, when you look at them and actually think about them, they actually make a hell of a lot of sense. the one "don't pick a plot that's been abandoned by nature i.e. has no animals or birds on it" is just... well... we know that animals have more instinctive sense than humans! "don't pick a plot that has a strange smell or has unclear air" is blindingly obvious, but so many people overrule that for other considerations, and then wonder why they get sick!

      as a race we can be pretty stupid, to be honest, about the kinds of things we put up with for the most... irrational reasons.

    2. Re:Your fortified home needs land around it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Animals have more instinct than humans, magic building pattern uses 'ancient mathematics' that nobody can prove, "I heard" bullshit

      Spokesman for irrationality right here.

    3. Re:Your fortified home needs land around it by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      If you live in beachfront you have so much money that it does not matter you lost everything. Yeah I have no tears shed for the people that have $1.2million dollar homes on the beach that had them damaged or destroyed.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Your fortified home needs land around it by airdweller · · Score: 1

      "as a race we can be pretty stupid, to be honest, about the kinds of things we put up with for the most... irrational reasons."
      Holy cow, my mind has just exploded b/c of an irony surge.

      PS. It did that according to all the principles of ancient sthapatyaveda mind you.

  7. Or... go old school by MangoCats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Go old school and build a concrete dome. These are nothing new, very strong, and energy efficient.

    1. Re:Or... go old school by DogDude · · Score: 2

      ... and have a resale value of $0.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:Or... go old school by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      Alternatively, build your house with a waterproofed cellar which can hold all your valuables, then build the above-ground section Japanese style - light and cheap. If a hurricane comes along it trashes the top section which you then rebuild for £20k, repeat until you've reached the cost of a fortified bunker (probably several times your lifespan).

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    3. Re:Or... go old school by barefoot_professor · · Score: 4, Informative

      A monolithic dome has been on my to do list for awhile now . . .

    4. Re:Or... go old school by dugjohnson · · Score: 2

      Backing up barefoot_professor on this. Monolithic domes can stand up to almost anything and are reasonably priced to construct. Now that I am living within an hour of the factory, I am thinking about taking one of their courses in dome construction...or may just buy some land and have them put one up. The only problem...how do you hide the dust bunnys in the corner?

      --
      My brain is overly lubricated
    5. Re:Or... go old school by hot+soldering+iron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You could also contact Monolithic Domes in Italy, TX. They practice what they preach, using concrete and steel domes for their factory buildings. They took a direct hit from an F3 tornado. They had the employees pull their cars inside, and no one even had chipped paint. They've made real strides in recent years to make their buildings blend in more with the surrounding architectures. They don't have to look like a 60's hippy commune.

      I really don't understand why everyone is effectively saying, "fortified homes kill puppies!!" You guys LIKE running in the middle of the night to a shelter? Or waking up to find that a post came through the wall and killed your teen-aged daughter? I've always thought people who built little crackerbox houses were idiots. I know of AT LEAST one town in Kansas that had everyone still alive living in shipping containers for over a year because a tornado scraped the town off the earth, and they are just now finishing up infrastructure repairs to Joplin, MO after the tornado strike that ate a hospital and gutted the city. Before anyone says, "Well, they probably came off better financially after all the aid came in", I can definitively say that's crap. What aid money is out there is stretched to the limit with all the natural disasters happening, so you may not get any. When big disasters happen, it can ruin an insurance company to the point that they close their doors, and then no one gets paid. Besides, how much money would it take to let someone kill your little boy? Or your wife? Or you? How much are these lives worth to you?

      I grew up in Tornado Alley in NE Texas. Our home was 1800 square feet with laminated floor beams on a full, reinforced basement on a hilltop. We eventually moved, selling the home to my uncle and his family. It's still a fortress, and helping members of the family sleep well when the tornado sirens go off.

      --
      When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
    6. Re:Or... go old school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      light and cheap.

      Which will be incredibly expensive to keep warm/cool.

      We'd be better off by being as energy efficient as possible.
      Heating (and cooling) gobbles up about a third of all energy used.

      When its done properly its possible to cut down energy consumption of new buildings by 80-95% compared to traditional buildings.
      And upgrading existing buildings is something you should atleast get some calculations on.
      The investment might actually pay off within 6-10 years depending on the current state of the building.
      If you intend to live there for a few decades (especially for retirement?) its going to add up into a big sum of money.

    7. Re:Or... go old school by Radtastic · · Score: 2

      I don't have points or I'd mod up the professor. Monolithic domes are noted to be very energy efficient, and can withstand natural disasters quite well - earthquake / fire / wind. Plus they look cool :)

      --
      You stereotypers are all the same...
    8. Re:Or... go old school by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You basically cannot overstate just how indestructible these things are. I visited one in Atlanta and the owner said that just a few months earlier an 18" wide tree had fallen over onto the house. This would have caused tremendous damage to any regular house, but this dome shrugged it off almost entirely, with the stump of a limb poking a 6" hole through the wall. There's that beach dome in Pensacola that survived repeated direct strikes of powerful hurricanes back in '04-'05 that just leveled every surrounding structure. The only damage it took was things like the main stairs washing away, which they were designed to do anyway. There's a story about a guy who bought a piece of land with a monolithic dome barn on it and hired a contractor to demolish it. Took the guy a solid week of whaling on it with a wrecking ball before it came down. There was a cheap knockoff version of a monolithic dome (no rebar) in Oklahoma that took a _direct_ hit by a tornado. Terribly damaged, but the structure is still intact. Lastly of course is the dome in Baghdad that served as a government office building. During the US invasion back in '03, they dropped a 5000 lb bomb on it. The bomb punched through and destroyed everything inside, but the building is still standing.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
    9. Re:Or... go old school by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Only to idiots that dont know anything at all.. To real people Geodesic domes sell 80% faster than a traditional home and sell for more. I had a dome home, it literally sold the WEEK I had the realtor list it during the worst part of the housing bubble crash, The traditional homes in the same area are still not sold 3 years later. Geodesic dome homes are a very hot commodity, none of them that go up for sale stay on the market very long.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. Common sense not common. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're going to spend so much that honestly, it would make more sense to let it blow down and rebuild it.'

    Or simply not live in those environments.

    1. Re:Common sense not common. by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to put a little aside to replace your wife and/or kids who were killed in the collapsing structure. And get some reincarnation insurance as well.

    2. Re:Common sense not common. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Or simply not live in those environments."

      Just rent the house and leave the damages to the owner. When a storm is announced, take a vacation in a club-med somewhere. Then you just need a safe for your valuable stuff.

    3. Re:Common sense not common. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Good luck with that. Those who dont get hit with hurricanes, get tornadoes. Those that get neither get earthquakes and mud slides..

      No plot of land is 100% safe from mother nature.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  9. overkill... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apparently by simply not building a square house you can weather pretty intense weather. http://www.domeofahome.com/dome_advantages.html

  10. Um... by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'You're going to spend so much that honestly, it would make more sense to let it blow down and rebuild it.''

    Naturally, a bean-counter and an actual occupant might have different thoughts about that... :p

    1. Re:Um... by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      I'd imagine insurance companies would be quite happy with it. Try insuring a cheap little car versus a Veyron, you'll soon find out which they consider to be the greater financial risk to them. Imagine if everyone in New Orleans lived in tents, albeit fairly luxurious ones...they'd all be back to normal by now (probably within weeks of Katrina in fact), instead there are still whole areas of condemned buildings which can't be economically repaired or rebuilt, years later.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    2. Re:Um... by timeOday · · Score: 1
      Implicit in the "let it blow down" approach is that you are not in it.

      This is what I am thinking a couple days ago watching the news reports of angry people in Staten Island complaining about the lack of assistance because their neighborhood looks like a war zone: why are you there? At least with Katrina I could see that a lot of the people who stayed didn't own a car, which also means they may not have money for a hotel room. But in the pictures of Staten Island I am seeing yachts piled up on porsches. And then 24-48 hours later (yesterday), the cavalry did arrive, and food, water, and ice are being handed out. So again my question, why ride out the storm or be the first back into the devastation afterwards, unless you are equipped to do so? Just cool your jets and get out of the way for a few days.

    3. Re:Um... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      You saw images of yachts and Porsches piled up and automatically assume that meant that people who would have been able to easily leave chose not to. See the flaw in your reasoning? :)

    4. Re:Um... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Let me rephrase: not everyone who stayed behind necessarily had much of a choice, images in the media notwithstanding...

    5. Re:Um... by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Not yet. Spell it out for me. Even a tiny home on Staten Island costs over $300,000.

    6. Re:Um... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      $300,000 doesn't buy you jack shit in the Tri-State Area; that's low-income housing! Anyway, it's partly because it's so expensive to live in the area that funds are tight for so many. Did you really think the yacht-and-Porsche-owning demographic was a dominant force there? It's Staten-fucking-Island, dude, not Manhattan or Greenwich. :p

  11. They'll take.. by meglon · · Score: 2

    ... my refurbished nuclear missile silo behind 2000lb steel doors over my cold, dead, zombie, body!!

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    1. Re:They'll take.. by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They've been selling a lot of those to private citizens lately. IIRC they usually go for a couple million and they pull out all the interesting stuff, but you still get a couple of miles of underground tunnels designed to withstand a nuclear blast. The original generators were designed to run a year without contact from the outside world and there was room for a year's worth of food storage, too. Just put your own generators and fuel tanks in, restock the food supplies and you could hole up for damn near anything. Maybe even a civilization-devastating asteroid impact, as long as it's not a direct impact where you live.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    2. Re:They'll take.. by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't hole up in anything with less than four exits.

    3. Re:They'll take.. by Nimey · · Score: 2

      I toured a decommissioned Minuteman control silo at Whiteman AFB fifteen years ago. One of the things they showed us was the emergency-exit tunnel, provided in case the facility took a hit and the main elevator was knocked out. As it was described to us, it was a stump that ended in the surrounding dirt, with a shovel provided so the crew could dig their way out.

      I'd expect the average civilianized silo to have at least one of those, and probably more than one.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    4. Re:They'll take.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't hole up in anything with less than four exits.

      See? Minecraft *is* educational.

    5. Re:They'll take.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last I hear the government was moving people OUT of them since 9/11. A friend of mine was forced out of his thanks to this.

    6. Re:They'll take.. by meglon · · Score: 2

      You say "exits," zombies say "place to get food."

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  12. Post Diaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such a structure needs to provide for the 10 - 30 days. So some sort of constant energy supply for heat, cooking, electric at basic comfort levels should be part of the design. The design should also be unobtrusive or there will be a lot of people begging at your door after a disaster.

    1. Re:Post Diaster by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      Your 2ft thick reinforced concrete door?

      The thing is, these buildings are being constructed for people who utterly rely on society - the waiters, the banks, the nanny, the tailor, the doctors. Sure, they'll last 30 days, but have they remembered to pack a big first aid kit and learned some medical basics? Do they know how to darn socks? Fix boots? Forage for and preserve food? Fix a car engine?

      This is a classic example of a man who needs fish and buys a freezer instead of a net.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    2. Re:Post Diaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so you make sure there's room in the bunker for the servants too

    3. Re:Post Diaster by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Do you know how to cut off a leg and sew up the stump properly? Pull teeth? how about remove an eye and deal with the socket? How about what plants have natural antibiotics and how do you extract and concentrate it for storage?

      Most "preppers" will be dead in 4 weeks. Then I get their supplies.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Post Diaster by ralatalo · · Score: 1

      Most survivalist will be dead in 4 weeks, the preppers will likely last about 6 months, then the farmers will get what's left.

    5. Re:Post Diaster by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yup. unless you are a homesteader. Then you are the one who trades with the farmers that did not think of everything. Most farmers dont know how to do some advanced tasks like frontier dential work.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  13. Find a good architect by baffled · · Score: 3, Informative

    Reinforced concrete easily beats wood-frame in strength, fire, and flood-induced mold-resistance. Find a specialist to use GFRP concrete reinforcement if you want it to last centuries. Insulate with foam for water resistance, or mineral wool if you can find a contractor for it. Look at composite or metal form deck roofing for concrete strength above your head, too. You probably want a commercial contractor if you're going all out. Find an architect that knows what they're doing. For windows, you'll want them with a minimal length in at least one dimension - short in width or height, to be secure in hurricane conditions. Even then, you'd need a specialty product if you want to resist a 2x4 flying edge-first into the window. And of course, you need high ground, a well, and a generator.

    1. Re:Find a good architect by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah yes, a well. Which is going to be contaminated in any serious flood.

      I have a well over 120 feet deep that goes through a clap cap (well, I rent a home with...) but it's still under surface influence.

      You will need a large water tank.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Find a good architect by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      Your window problem would be solved with steel shutters. The well should be sealed and high off the ground to prevent flood water from draining into it. The problem however, is all of your neighbors with un-protected wells into the same Aquifer. So you'll need to live rural, away from other people. Rather than High ground, I'd just not live anywhere near the coast. It's a nice place to visit but not a good place to keep all your stuff.

    3. Re:Find a good architect by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

      "if you want it to last centuries"

      Standard "reinforced concrete" will not last for centuries. The fortifications in Europe are proof of that, steel rusts INSIDE the concrete (especially in coastal areas) and eventually shatters it. Unless you stabilize the metal for the long term (power coat?, paint?, special alloys?) it will be falling apart within 70 years. As far as the windows I'd simply use standard ones and put on some good old fashioned storm shutters (made out of steal of course). Besides those cautions a concrete home is a pretty good idea, even if it is flooded, if designed correctly it can be gutted and brought up to new condition in days or weeks, not months or years.

    4. Re:Find a good architect by baffled · · Score: 1

      Good point. You can pay extra to have a deep well drilled, and you can also look at integrating a rain-water harvesting system with a large storage tank.

    5. Re:Find a good architect by baffled · · Score: 1

      Note the full quote was "use GFRP concrete reinforcement if you want it to last centuries"

      That is, use fiberglass reinforcement bars, not steel. Hence, no expanding accumulation of rust to crack apart your concrete.

    6. Re:Find a good architect by budgenator · · Score: 1

      My bosses house was in a flood a few years back, and had a walkout basement with an Andersen sliding glass door. That door had water waist high against it and all of the leakage was under the door not through the door proper, quite amazing actually.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    7. Re:Find a good architect by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Generally you just need to go as deep as 2nd water; that's usually isolated from the surface. (And far less likely to be affected by drought or neighboring wells.)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  14. Just buy an army surplus tank or armored carrier by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

    Park it in the backyard, or in the front yard, if you want to annoy the neighbors. Ride out the calamity in there. If civilization is still around, you will survive when you crawl out. If not, you probably won't want to bother to stay around much longer anyway. As the summary suggests, you might just as well plan to build a new house. Or, how about moving to somewhere with a safer climate to begin with . . . ?

    Oh, and make sure your tank has Reactive Armor.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  15. Location location location by rossdee · · Score: 1

    If you have a choice of where you live, staying away from the coast, and not near an active seismic zone, and not next to a river can help.
    (also some areas are less prone to tornados too.

    I think if Obama is reelected there may be more missile silos up for sale too.

  16. Makes you feel all warm and safe... by Zemran · · Score: 2

    ... and then you catch a deadly tropical virus off one of the cashiers at Costco and die in agony as your insides turn to liquid.

    --
    I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
  17. My neighbor built homes like this in Florida... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    He told me how they used reinforced concrete (iirc, rebar laced/laden), & the wildest part that got me, was they didn't use bolts to anchor the wall frames, but rather some sort of straps (personally, I'd have used BOTH, but money talk$).

    (This was done in the interests of withstanding tropical storms...)

    * Operating from memory on this, but that's what I recall from the conversation...

    What "blows my mind", is this: I've been to Europe & saw castles that have stood for 2-3 thousand years, & touched their mortar. Guess what? It's STILL solid as the day it cured & dried... tells me a lot, right there - they didn't "skimp" on using the right amount of lime in it (vs. overdoing the sand part to save a buck).

    The homes I saw in Poland were amazing too - they aren't little "wooden toothpick boxes", but instead, built almost SOLELY of cinder blocks filled with stones & concrete - then, they are overlaid with foam insuluation from the outside ontop of that, then a coating of some sort of veneer (cement type).

    I walked around and unlike homes in the U.S., where the floors 'shudder' when I walk (I weigh ~ 220 lbs)? These homes were SOLID AS A ROCK - no perceptible movement @ all, even in the UPPER floors!

    They are just built, better... better than most homes I've seen in the USA, including mine.

    APK

    P.S.=> He's been a "journeyman" carpenter in the unions for 18++ yrs. now...

    ... apk

    1. Re:My neighbor built homes like this in Florida... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Even brick homes in the US tend to be wooden framed and just faced in brick. The house I grew up in in the UK was brick all through even on the interior walls and the exterior walls were two layers of brick with a cavity. American mentality seems to be "quick, cheap and don't worry about 50 years down the road".

    2. Re:My neighbor built homes like this in Florida... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      Bolts concentrate stress in the base plate; straps distribute the stresses and more directly transfer load to bearing surfaces for uplift. When you do both, you run the risk of the base/sill plate failing before the straps can take the load. The house wouldn't collapse, but it might need major repairs.

    3. Re:My neighbor built homes like this in Florida... by tgd · · Score: 1

      What "blows my mind", is this: I've been to Europe & saw castles that have stood for 2-3 thousand years, & touched their mortar. Guess what? It's STILL solid as the day it cured & dried... tells me a lot, right there - they didn't "skimp" on using the right amount of lime in it (vs. overdoing the sand part to save a buck).

      No, you didn't. Virtually all castles in Europe are 300-600 years old. Some VERY uncommon ones may be 1000. None are 2-3 thousand years old. And the ones you see that aren't piles of rubble are ones that were actively rebuilt, maintained and/or restored MANY times since their construction. You can tell the ones that are old -- they're overgrown piles of rubble with a random wall here and there.

  18. Brick by Lord+Lode · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Using brick instead of wood may help some. Nothing high tech about that.

    1. Re:Brick by gewalker · · Score: 5, Funny

      I know some pigs that recommend brick over wood or straw in their ability to withstand winds gusts.

    2. Re:Brick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I grew up in an area where hurricanes are simply known as winter. All the houses are made of brick and seldom suffer damage. The American fetish with expensive stick houses is really amazing.

    3. Re:Brick by Provocateur · · Score: 2

      The American fetish with expensive stick houses is really amazing.

      Indeed, and when I drive around in hurricane-prone Florida, I swear their most protective coating for hurricanes is that thin layer they call insurance.

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
    4. Re:Brick by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Bricks are shit for earthquake resistance. I don't believe it's legal to build with brick in some earthquake-prone areas now.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    5. Re:Brick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends, actually. Brick isn't a great choice in tremor-prone areas. Either as support walls or veneer, it tends to 'rain' fairly easily. You get a pretty hazardous flow of bricks sideways.

      I liked brick a lot back east where I grew up, but out here on the west coast I much prefer a stud-frame on a reinforced concrete foundation.

      'Nothing high tech'? Um, sure... I worked in renovations into the 1990s and have kept an interest. We're still learning lots about best practices. But if you like to think it's all low-tech from your armchair, carry on. You probably use a lot of car analogies too.

    6. Re:Brick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not by the hair on my chinny chin chin...

    7. Re:Brick by Lord+Lode · · Score: 1

      The "nothing high tech about that" was meant in a good way, referring to the article showing all kinds of what it calls new technologies needed to protect your home.

      But interesting point about the earth quakes. That must be the reason why brick is used so much where I live, because there are almost none here (I hope now there won't suddenly appear one though because obviously we're not prepared for that).

  19. Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by lkcl · · Score: 1, Funny

    there's a type of vedic architecture principles called "vaastu", the other word used is sthapatyaveda - it's thousands of years old. a temple built according to "vaastu" architecture principles has withstood tornados and wind speeds of 150mph. i believe golden mean ratio is used extensively, integrated into over *1,000* measurements of the building's dimensions and proportions.

    the exact effect this sort of integrated mathematical design has on the weather is just astonishing. that california brush fire in 2003 swept across a series of plots built according to sthapatyaveda: i heard that the only homes which were damaged were those where the people who "broke the rules" by putting in a swimming pool had the fence singed. http://www.wereldvrede.nl/sthapatyavedafantastic.htm

    think about it, though: these people attribute "desire" to the "weather", but i believe there's a much more rational explanation: the extensive use of golden mean ratio in the proportions of the building setting up resonance patterns in the wind as the brush fire approached, causing pockets of air surrounding the building, against which the general direction of the fire *literally* had no quotes choice quotes but to change direction. i think it will be the same thing with that temple in india - the one that withstood 150mph winds.

    of course, these days, for anyone in the building trade to quotes believe quotes that this is even remotely possible would require supercomputers and fluid dynamics analysis, none of which i believe any modern building company would of course be even slightly interested in doing, because they couldn't claim it was "their technology" with "their patents" on it. muuch better to make buster-bunker style buildings of course :)

    1. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      think about it, though: these people attribute "desire" to the "weather", but i believe there's a much more rational explanation: the extensive use of golden mean ratio in the proportions of the building setting up resonance patterns in the wind as the brush fire approached, causing pockets of air surrounding the building, against which the general direction of the fire *literally* had no quotes choice quotes but to change direction. i think it will be the same thing with that temple in india - the one that withstood 150mph winds.

      I'm still not buying that house, unless it also sharpens dull razor blades and keeps fruit fresh.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by lkcl · · Score: 1

      think about it, though: these people attribute "desire" to the "weather", but i believe there's a much more rational explanation: the extensive use of golden mean ratio in the proportions of the building setting up resonance patterns in the wind as the brush fire approached, causing pockets of air surrounding the building, against which the general direction of the fire *literally* had no quotes choice quotes but to change direction. i think it will be the same thing with that temple in india - the one that withstood 150mph winds.

      I'm still not buying that house, unless it also sharpens dull razor blades and keeps fruit fresh.

      :) you can't: they're happy living in it, and are extremely unlikely to sell - ever. i believe you're thinking of pyramids, or perhaps voodoo magic. this is about mathematics creating standing waves in the wind that can actually turn it away. if you've seen "standing waves" on a storm wall, you'll know what this is about. now take that to 3 dimensions: it's the exact same principle.

      sthapatyaveda is aslo about making a conscious choice to live a radically healthier lifestyle. it can be tough as hell to make that kind of committment: you can't just take any old house and convert it (you can, but it's nowhere near as effective). you have to pick good land and so on, and do a *complete* from-scratch build. that level of committment from people and the benefits it has on their health, not to mention being extremely proud and happy that they did something like that, it means you're very very unlikely to ever "buy that house".

    3. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      this is about mathematics creating standing waves in the wind that can actually turn it away.

      You can't do that without transferring the momentum onto the object doing the "turning away". That's a simple law of conservation of momentum. You have a mass of air going in one direction and then you have the same mass of air going in a different direction. You have to exert force by something to achieve that, standing waves or not. And as per Newton's third law, the structure is still going to be stressed by the dynamic pressure, only in your case, the building will be forced into oscillations. Big win there, that's even "better".

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Tai chi.

      Such western thinking.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    5. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Tai chi.

      Such western thinking.

      You mean, the Tacoma Bridge wouldn't have fallen if the Chinese had orientated it properly with respect to the Geo-magnetic zones or something?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Why does your mind automatically jump to stupid explanations? Perhaps you should learn what tai chi is and how it differs from other systems first.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    7. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should learn what tai chi is

      It's a Chinese martial art.

      and how it differs from other systems first.

      Its practitioners use different moves and give them different names.

      And I still don't get how practicing martial arts relates to protecting buildings from hurricanes.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by rcw-home · · Score: 1

      of course, these days, for anyone in the building trade to quotes believe quotes that this is even remotely possible would require supercomputers and fluid dynamics analysis

      Or a small scale-model wind tunnel that could cheaply and easily be built with some plywood, some fans, and maybe some smoke or thread to show wind direction. It shouldn't cost more than $100.

      You sound like you have something to prove here. Get on it.

    9. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by lkcl · · Score: 1

      this is about mathematics creating standing waves in the wind that can actually turn it away.

      You can't do that without transferring the momentum onto the object doing the "turning away". That's a simple law of conservation of momentum. You have a mass of air going in one direction and then you have the same mass of air going in a different direction. You have to exert force by something to achieve that, standing waves or not. And as per Newton's third law, the structure is still going to be stressed by the dynamic pressure, only in your case, the building will be forced into oscillations. Big win there, that's even "better".

      first thing to say is this: sthapatyaveda buildings are built to *millimetre* accuracy. it's a nightmare for the builders, but that's the requirements, so they get told and that's the end of it.

      second thing is: think of a pipe organ, closed at one end: that's a "standing-wave" which creates a pure note. now put two of those, back-to-back, where the house is in the centre of the standing wave. now arrange for the airflow to be directed *around* the house instead of "squashing" it. just like jmc23 says in one of the other posts: think "tai chi". you don't *absorb* the power of the attack, you *redirect* it.

      this "modern" building company approach is the "brute force" approach: design the building to take a pounding, solid as a rock. that's... dumb. the quantity of materials alone make it hard to justify.

      why not take a softer approach? a mathematical one which causes pockets of air? i mean.... for goodness sake: even the fence height surrounding a sthapatyaveda property is in proportion to the dimensions of the house, which is itself built on a grid where certain walls are allowed to be on the grid lines and others are not (usually the internal ones).... and this is all to *millimetre* accuracy.

      the property is *literally* tuned, like a precision instrument. i find this approach to be absolutely fascinating yet there are so few people in the world who appreciate it, and quite likely there are *zero* people in the world who actually understand the fundamental principles on which it's all actually based. so unfortunately everyone has to take it "on faith": i don't. i sort-of intuitively get that there's something real going on, at a mathematical level.

    10. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by lkcl · · Score: 1

      Tai chi.

      Such western thinking.

      yes - exactly!

    11. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      first thing to say is this: sthapatyaveda buildings are built to *millimetre* accuracy. it's a nightmare for the builders, but that's the requirements, so they get told and that's the end of it. second thing is: think of a pipe organ, closed at one end: that's a "standing-wave" which creates a pure note. now put two of those, back-to-back, where the house is in the centre of the standing wave. now arrange for the airflow to be directed *around* the house instead of "squashing" it. just like jmc23 says in one of the other posts: think "tai chi". you don't *absorb* the power of the attack, you *redirect* it.

      You don't seem like a stupid guy. I have only one question: Do you actually believe in all this bullshit, or are you just making fun of us all here? Because any person equipped with critical thinking, not to mention some education in physics, will easily wipe the floor with the things you post here. In the former case, I advise you to seek out a mental health professional. I hope NHS covers that.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    12. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by budgenator · · Score: 1

      And I still don't get how practicing martial arts relates to protecting buildings from hurricanes.

      The basic philosophy of soft-style martial arts is more about it's much easier to redirect an irresistable force than it is to stop one, the same is true with torandoes and cyclones.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    13. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you an engineer? Are you even a builder? You remind me of any number of people I know who worship anything Eastern because it's from the Orient.

    14. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Tai Chi, Feng Shui. It's all the same to me.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:Vaastu Temple withstands 150mph by airdweller · · Score: 1

      At first I thought it was some uber-sarcastic-kung-fu, but the more I read the more I think he really believes it :)

  20. Onestep Wall by LetterRip · · Score: 2

    I used to work for a startup company that created an amazing new block design, lays up like standard masonry and has the beauty of masonry.

    http://onestepbuildingsystem.com/what-is-onestep.html

    Has an integrated cavity that is filled with concrete and rebar, so is ridiculously strong. And the insulation seals it against water penetration (not as well as the original design which had more internal plastic, but in the water penetration testing it stood up to hurricane force driven water without leakage.)

    Also has great sound insulation, has thermal mass to the inside which drops heating and cooling costs significantly, and maintenance is fairly inexpensive.

    Not sure what choice you'd use for windows, I recall seeing some that were quite amazing 10 years ago, when I last looked, but I'm sure the market has devised some even cooler stuff since.

  21. Three little pigs and a wolf by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    This really reminds me of the three little pigs and who's house survived the huffs and puffs of the wolf. I am pretty sure his house was not built out of wood. He was probably also the rich pig in the family ;)

    The problem with many homes is poor location, poor choice of construction material and poor choice of architecture. We need to respect the potential fury of Mother Nature when she decides its time to remind everyone of her presence, and build accordingly.

    The first thing you do is not build your house on a spit, something which is very volatile in terms of land. Neither should you build on flood plains. If you know there is some chance of hurricanes, then concrete is going to be the better building material. We can see in Japan the buildings that survived the tsunami were all built out of concrete or on higher ground. We also learnt in Thailand that you are better off putting mangroves than house on a beach front. In terms of architecture stilted homes make more sense, in flood prone areas since they will be above the flood level and therefore the damage, if any, will be much reduced.

    One construction approach I had thought about as a compromise would be in a typically wooden house, was a raised concrete core, where people cold hide and keep the most precious possessions. The idea being even with damage to the outer structure, they would be above the food level and within a structure that stands a better chance of survival.

    All that said, I believe we should be regulating building and insurance to discourage people building the wrong type of housing in the wrong geography, since in the end the tax payer pays every time.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Three little pigs and a wolf by u38cg · · Score: 1

      Re your last sentence, the problem is not that insurance is regulated, it's the reverse. If people couldn't get insurance for areas that are guaranteed to flood or get blown over regularly, they might think twice about living there. Instead, the government compels insurers to cover them anyway.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    2. Re:Three little pigs and a wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, idiotic building codes are to blame for much of the trouble.

    3. Re:Three little pigs and a wolf by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Re your last sentence, the problem is not that insurance is regulated, it's the reverse. If people couldn't get insurance for areas that are guaranteed to flood or get blown over regularly, they might think twice about living there. Instead, the government compels insurers to cover them anyway.

      Oh, that is crazy. I was hoping for something in terms of the opposite. Buildings should be receive a disaster risk rating, such that people can make informed decisions and accept whatever penalty comes with it. Imagine the rating goes from A-F, with A being lowest risk rating. If something happens there then you get an increased rate of protection, if you get get F then you should be paying a tax surcharge as a way of compensating the government for when the finally have to bail you out.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  22. Re:Just buy an army surplus tank or armored carrie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And don't forget to get yourself a kangaroo boyfriend.

  23. Bricks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Use them you american weirdos.

    1. Re:Bricks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they don't have money to build brick housings!

  24. Hugh Pickens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This guy should almost work for Slashdot. Have you noticed the enormous effort that he puts to writing submissions?

    1. Re:Hugh Pickens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you are hopefully grateful to have such a prolific contributor. If we had more people like him, the world would be more tolerable.

  25. Live forever or die trying by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or, how about moving to somewhere with a safer climate to begin with ?

    Geologically and climatologically safe places are almost always boring, empty and low-value.

    Fertile soil means flood-plains, which means floods. (Hell even deserts flood every few decades.) Too flat and you can add tornadoes. Forests and parks means fire risk, trees falling in storms, etc. Good views of the sea means storms, up to and including hurricanes, along with coastal erosion. Good views inland usually means hills and mountains, which means landslides, probably earthquakes. Rivers and valleys means floods, landslides, and wild-fire funnelling. Then you've got ice storms if you're too far north, blackouts from too many air-conditioners if you are too far south, resulting in heat-deaths. (Northern hemisphere).

    And, even if you pick well, you've only got a few decades of in-your-lifetime awareness of weather events to go on. A century or so if you make an effort to go into the records. That still leaves you fucked if you get a once-in-a-century (-or-three) event. Or if climate changes and makes your previously low risk site suddenly higher risk.

    And that's just nature. Then you've got people. Home invasion, riots, arson, government falling, invasion, zombies...

    --
    Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    1. Re:Live forever or die trying by Wizard+Drongo · · Score: 1

      Only a century of weather? Huh?

      OK, so I can't tell you average mean temperatures etc. going way back, but any sizeable storm or notable weather event (river that never freezes freezing due to really bad winter etc.) is recorded where I live going back at least until the 1600's, and before that, there are records containing reference to freak occurrences, so I know that volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes & tornadoes are quite rare here (ie. less than once per few hundred years, with the exception of the hurricanes, they're about once every 50 years)...

      Not everywhere is midwest USA where westerners have only known it for a hundred + years...

      --
      The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
    2. Re:Live forever or die trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you've only got a few decades of in-your-lifetime awareness of weather events to go on. A century or so if you make an effort to go into the records.

      I even see you have a long history of failing to read.

    3. Re:Live forever or die trying by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      As the shouty coward says, I meant the understanding most people have about their local area from common experience and easily accessed non-specialist records.

      Or to put it in a more suitably snarky way: Go on then, smart-ass, tell me. Did you actually do that research before you moved there?

      Not everywhere is midwest USA where westerners have only known it for a hundred + years...

      That's actually my point. The reason certain areas were settled was because they had deep harbours (tectonically active, prone to storms), rivers (major flooding), minerals/coal from mountains (tectonically active, plus landslides in storms), forests for lumber (wildfires, disease), or fertile soil (any of the above). There's a reason so many people in the world live near volcanoes (usually the most fertile soil in the area).

      The places that were interesting or useful are the same places that are risky.

      I doubt there are many places in the US that have a large enough population for jobs/opportunities, but low climate/geographic risk, and have records going back far enough to prove it, purely because those places were the last places to be settled.

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    4. Re:Live forever or die trying by Wizard+Drongo · · Score: 2

      And *my* point was that not everywhere is in America; I said mid-western USA since I'm guessing the east coast and even california etc. have records going back at least 200 years. But I live in Scotland. I know what the weather was like, in broad terms, 1000 years ago. There are battle accounts of a nearby battlefield between the Gaels and the Norse, proclaiming how it was extraordinarily cold for the time of year, as it was May and there was still a bitter frost.

      Not everywhere is in the US, not everywhere thinks 100 years is a long time.

      Where I am, aside from a lot of rain which brings with it a minor flooding element (but actually, not major, just a case of bad drainage), the climate/geophysics are very stable here. No earthquakes over a 2 on the richter scale, no volcanoes for 1000 miles, no tornadoes recorded of more than F-0, we have an occasional bad winter but it rarely blizzards (at least where I am), and rarely (once every 10 years or so) drops below -10C, so it's liveable. And that's stable over the last millenia or so. Sure, temperatures took a dive during the so-called mini-ice age in the 1600's to 1800's, and the recovery from that has often been used as evidence of climate change. Not sure it is, but it's interesting Loch Lomond used to freeze every winter, enough that you could drive a car on it in the 1960's, and has not even froze over since the late 80's, so clearly some change happening...
      That aside, we're pretty stable, and I can see that going back at least 1000 years.

      --
      The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
    5. Re:Live forever or die trying by k31bang · · Score: 1

      Geologically and climatologically safe places are almost always boring, empty and low-value.

      Also, these areas probably have secret US bases and research facilities that are targeted by Russian nukes.

      --
      -+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ *** http://www.mountainfort.com *** +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-
    6. Re:Live forever or die trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol you are wrong in, literally, every claim you make. both in your understanding of the magnitude and frequency of disasters in relation to the places you describe.

    7. Re:Live forever or die trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that much of Scotland is now covered in radioactive waste from Chernobyl. While things have gotten better, there will be residual radiation contamination sufficient to damage DNA for more than 1000 years.

      The last of the Chernobyl contaminated farms in Scotland have only just been allowed to sell their meat again 25+ years after Chernobyl. That release happened this year. The meat is still partially contaminated, but now falls below the EU’s safety levels for radioactive meat that can be sold. There are still farms in Wales that cannot sell meat today.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-15783517
      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scottish-sheep-farms-finally-free-of-chernobyl-fallout-2020059.html

      In the end, sometimes it is just luck that determines one's safety. Living in Scotland or any place a person thinks is safe(r) due to "historical record" is ingenuous. With the advent of world-scale killing machines such as nuclear energy, all bets are off. There is no safety anymore.

  26. Man, have you got THAT right... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right - I grew up in a home built on the SAME principal: Dual Brick walls with a 2 ft. thick "air-gap" for insulation. The home was built right after the Civil War & is EXACTLY 100 yrs. older than I am. It was, to put it simply, pretty amazing (the folks that bought it from my father afterwards even took it farther, improving it, for the last 33++ yrs. now).

    * You've got 1 thing right - in the USA? The "Holy Dollar" speaks, & these "tract-building" contractors are NOTORIOUS for "ripping off" their own staffs too (hell, one guy I know? His brother is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE from it, & he owes his own BROTHER $4,000 still, for almost a 1/2 a decade (that I know of @ least), now...)

    APK

    P.S.=> I can see doing that approach for cars though... why? Well, when I was a younger guy, & not too "economically saavy" as to how "the real world works"? I asked my father (a 45++ yr. tool & dye maker + engineer/designer) this question:

    "Dad, how come the USA's car makers can't build something as durable as a Mercedes?" (which has MILLION MILE engines & cars out there & more mind you)...

    He said: "Son, we EASILY could - but then, I'd be giving you my car, & you'd end up giving that same car to YOUR boy & who KNOWS how long that'd go on if the vehicle's well-maintained... the problem? How would they sell more cars, & keep people working + paying taxes?"

    Made sense - product obsolescence & all that!

    However, I can't see APPLYING THAT line of though to homes (the single largest things folks typically buy in a lifetime)...

    Imo @ least - homes SHOULD be built well as possible!

    Yes, there is cost involved IF you don't "do it yourself" - BIG cost!

    My late grandfather & father built my late grandma's home & it was BUILT RIGHT - but, they did it, themselves & it's built like those homes in Poland I saw - it'll stand more than 150 yrs. is my guess, WITH EASE...

    They built it themselves, I saw it going on when I was like 2-3 yrs. old, "hanging out" while the men worked (Yes, I still remember it, & I was trying to be "one of the men working", lol).

    They ended up saving on the "ripoff factor" that contractors would otherwise HIT you with, IF/WHEN you cannot do it yourself of course)...

    ... apk

    1. Re:Man, have you got THAT right... apk by Kurrel · · Score: 1

      I bet those ancient structures' longevity has absolutely nothing to do with the competence and regularity of people maintaining it.

    2. Re:Man, have you got THAT right... apk by uncqual · · Score: 1

      He said: "Son, we EASILY could - but then, I'd be giving you my car, & you'd end up giving that same car to YOUR boy & who KNOWS how long that'd go on if the vehicle's well-maintained... the problem? How would they sell more cars, & keep people working + paying taxes?"

      The real problem would be you'd be driving your great-grandfather's car. You would occasionally break your arm while trying to crank start it on a cold morning. It would spew smog. It wouldn't have airbags. It would have a cranky manual transmission w/o synchromesh. It wouldn't have AC. It wouldn't have power steering or brakes. It wouldn't have ABS or traction control. It wouldn't have turn signals. Its top speed would be 30 MPH(?). Its tires would last a few thousand miles instead of 60K miles. It would have a manual choke. You would have to adjust the timing on a regular basis. It wouldn't have any cupholders. It would not have a place to plug in your cell phone charger. It wouldn't have a vanity mirror in the sunvisor. It wouldn't have a car alarm. It wouldn't have remote unlock/start. The antifreeze would not last 40K miles or more.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
  27. Water/lava-tight basement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That with a normal house above it should be fine for anyone, even if Apophis comes back to try enslave humanity again.

    Just make sure you have the materials to build a Stargate in an emergency.

    1. Re:Water/lava-tight basement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just where the hell am I supposed to get naquada?

  28. cheaper to keep her by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    The most effective and cost-effective thing you can do to protect yourself in the case of some disaster (natural or man-made), is to be a useful and well-regarded member of your community, your neighborhood, your block and to look out for the people around you.

    You might lay out hundreds of thousands on the sturdiest house possible and get run over by a beer truck on your way to the corner store. Or maybe no disaster ever occurs and you've spent all that money needlessly.

    But being an integral part of a community and making sure your neighbors are doing well will not only keep you in good stead in case of an emergency, but will pay dividends even when there is no catastrophe.

    Did nobody read the story of the Three Little Pigs? Don't you remember how the little piggy who built the sturdy brick house ended up getting jacked in the back of the head by the other piggies when he went to the corner store to pick up snacks and he ended up dying in the street because everybody hated that selfish sonofabitch?

    The lesson being, if you really want to be happy and prosperous, take care of those around you and stop thinking only about yourself.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:cheaper to keep her by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Good point. Hard to keep up a 24 x 7 guard around your perfect redoubt all by yourself.

      Hard to chop up a 4 foot wide tree all by yourself.

      Hard to have every skill and trade needed all by yourself.

      Society. There is a reason for it.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:cheaper to keep her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did nobody read the story of the Three Little Pigs? Don't you remember how the little piggy who built the sturdy brick house ended up getting jacked in the back of the head by the other piggies when he went to the corner store to pick up snacks and he ended up dying in the street because everybody hated that selfish sonofabitch?

      Hm, the way I remembered it, the well-prepared, brick house piggy ended up shooting some other shiftless little piggies who had an entitlement complex and incorrectly believed they had a right to loot the goods that other piggy families had stored. The dead looter piggies weren't grateful for the charity goods offered by the brick house piggy family and instead fatally attempted to assert their "right" to "their fair share" of the family's stored goods.

      No one felt sorry for the dead looter piggies because they had always been profligate: purchasing large screen TVs, new cars every 36 months, and McMansions they knew they couldn't afford when they signed the mortgage (but yet believed it was the evil bank's fault for enabling their irresponsibility). Ironically, they had frequently mocked the brick piggy family for storing goods in advance of the emergency.

      The lesson being, if you don't protect yourself and your family then others will feel they are entitled to everything you own.

  29. Brick houses? by xaxa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are there any European-style brick houses in New England (or anywhere else) with extreme weather? (More extreme than Europe.) Are they robust enough?

    Every house I've ever lived in has been built from two layers of brick, with either an air gap (older) or fibreglass (you call it mineral wool then?) or similar between, for insulation. I live in England, so we don't need shutters, but they're normal in some places -- generally for temperature control rather than protection. A tiled roof might not do very well in a hurricane. Some small changes (strong shutters, better-attached roof) and you're almost there...

    TV reports of a house fire in Europe generally show a house with soot marks above some windows, and possibly a burnt and partially collapsed roof. They have to burn for a *long* time for walls to collapse. Flood damage means replacing all the ground-floor carpets and making sure the space under the house is dry, to avoid damp/mould. Wind damage usually means replacing a missing roof tile, but we don't get wind like America.

    (For that matter, how are the big buildings in Manhattan? They're brick or concrete and presumably don't have shutters.)

    1. Re:Brick houses? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      (Oh, and I didn't mention: my parent's brick house is 106 years old, one I rented in London was ~120, another ~80. As far as I know, the only maintenance necessary to the walls is to repoint the brickwork -- i.e. replace any cement that's crumbled from between the bricks. My parents did it when the house was about 100 years old, and it should be another 100 years before it needs doing again...)

    2. Re:Brick houses? by baffled · · Score: 1

      I misspoke - meant rockwool, not mineralwool, though it seems some consider the terms interchangeable. Rockwool is unaffected by moisture unlike fiberglass, and it also has higher heat resistance. I wouldn't place fiberglass in that gap due to the potential for moisture intrusion.

      Brick is similar to concrete in its durability and fire-resistance, but reinforced concrete is much stronger than brick. Concrete also doesn't require any maintenance, unlike mortared brick/block. Brick also doesn't require forms or concrete trucks to install.

    3. Re:Brick houses? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      My language isn't accurate, I know very little about the subject, except that older houses in the UK usually don't have any insulation in the space, unless it was added later. The government will subsidise adding it in order to reduce energy use: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Insulation/Cavity-wall-insulation

      Fibreglass is probably the usual material for insulating ceilings and loft spaces (i.e. underneath the roof tiles).

    4. Re:Brick houses? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      People in North America don't use the European style brick homes. Possibly the reason is we had and have extensive forrests that make wood cheap unlike Europe. I've often wondered why we don't use the exterior steel window shutters like they do in Germany, then google lead me to Rolladen hurricaine shutters in Florida.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    5. Re:Brick houses? by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Two layers of un-reinforced masonry supporting the roof. We call those death traps in earthquake country and what you people on the east coast don't realize is that the you can have earthquakes too, they just aren't as common, but they can still happen.

      You know what un-reinforced masonry does when the ground starts shaking or the wind blows to hard or a wave of water hits it? It's not pretty, people inside don't usually survive having several thousand pounds of stone fall on them.

    6. Re:Brick houses? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      We call those death traps in earthquake country and what you people on the east coast don't realize is that the you can have earthquakes too, they just aren't as common, but they can still happen.

      Hey, calm down! I was only asking, and I think I'm near a different east coast than the one you presume.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_the_British_Isles#21st_century

  30. hell yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone still without power after five days that's all I've been thinking about. Its very cold this morning and I'm going to have to go out and find a charge soon. Next place I live will have solar power for sure.

    1. Re:hell yeah by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Since we are talking about hurricanes (i.e. wind) why not put a Wind Turbine on the roof. If its windy enough to knock out grid power, its certainly going to be windy enough to generate electricity to keep your battery banks charged up.

  31. Ignorant by koan · · Score: 1

    "it would make more sense to let it blow down and rebuild it.''

    When is that ever the sensible thing to do? You pay the money so you don't have to rebuild so your family and things are safe, plus what if there is nothing left to rebuild with?

    I'll take the indestructible fortress over planning to "rebuild".

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  32. Round house: been done by TheGavster · · Score: 1

    A circular house that transfers load to a central pillar has been done:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_house

    It's pretty awesome, but you pretty much have to go custom for all of your furniture, counters, bathroom appliances, etc.

    --
    "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
    1. Re:Round house: been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bucky Fuller also (somewhat later) designed the geodesic domes used for radar shelters in the DEW line (arctic) and a dome that survived quite well in Antarctica. It's possible to make strong buildings without heavy materials (stone, brick concrete), if the shape and structural design is efficient.

      Put another way, not everyone is going to be able to build one of the heavy fortresses discussed above. Security from natural disasters could be had by many people at reasonable cost--by using lightweight, efficient designs.

  33. 0.1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WHen the revolution comes, the 0.01% who can afford these things will need them. Storms, earthquakes, phsaw... they're looking to keep out the rabble with pitchforks and flaming torches seeking to hang them from the lampposts.

    In the entire article, just one mention of a low budget thing (extra layer of plywood) and that's nothing new. these guys are all about writing off the cost of their house as a business expense, because it's a "showcase" for their (no doubt patented) designs and expertise at building impregnable hoi polloi resistant houses.

    Those two by fours will be going a lot faster than 40 mi/hr in a tornado. But I doubt an angry mob will be able to heave them that fast.

  34. yeah by Tom · · Score: 1

    You're going to spend so much that honestly, it would make more sense to let it blow down and rebuild it.

    Because people who are rich enough to own homes like that wouldn't ever have anything inside that is as valuable as the house, and maybe more (paintings, artwork, stuff like that).

    Not to mention emotional values.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  35. Tropical Diseases? by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When you say that, I immediately think of Dengue fever. It's a hemorrhagic fever with four serotypes: fun for the whole family. Unlike most diseases where catching one variant grants immunity to the others, with dengue you end up with *less* protection from the other variants. I like to think of it as "Ebola Lite", except by the time you've had it a couple times you may not appreciate the distinction.

    You can get worse things without having to make the trip to the tropics: MRSA will make your insides become your outsides at a shockingly rapid pace, and tends to cause permanent scarring in survivors. It's commonly found in hospitals! Fun fact: About half the US states do not require hospitals to report statistics on Hospital-Acquired Infections.

    I've had both (within the last year or so -- may you live in interesting times). MRSA is worse, and lots closer to home. For all the hue and cry about salmonella, only about 30 people die per year from it. In 2005, over eighteen thousand people died from MRSA -- it has a greater annual death toll than AIDS.

    If I had to pick which infection to get again, I'd probably go with "Ebola Lite". That should tell you something.

    The question of why MRSA gets less press than other diseases is left as an exercise to the reader. Support legislation on hospital infection statistics!

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  36. Grade school geography. by westlake · · Score: 1

    If you have a choice of where you live, staying away from the coast, and not near an active seismic zone, and not next to a river can help.

    The big city and the well-paying job tends to found where where trade, transport and communication is easy and affordable.

    The Erie Canal linked an ambitious and prosperous New York City to the Great Lakes and the Midwest. New Orleans had the Mississippi, the Missouri and Ohio to draw upon.

    If your interests lie in grain and cattle and you will likely be thinking about settling the Great Plains. The miner heads for the mountains. The fisherman for open water.

  37. Domes are the way to go by greg_barton · · Score: 1

    A square house made of sticks does not stand up to high winds. For that you need a concrete dome made by the folks at Monolithic.

  38. make entry a noisy event Re:Illegal by Fubari · · Score: 1

    What happens when that master key gets out in the wild? It's bound to happen eventually...

    From the fine wiki article:

    Some building managers wire Knox Boxes into their burglar alarm systems so that opening the box trips the alarm, negating their use in facilitating clandestine entry.

    1. Re:make entry a noisy event Re:Illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SO? The thief steals the key today, setting off the alarm.... and walks away, only to return tomorrow to actually use the key he stole.

      Or will people be forced to change all their locks on a moments notice? If so, then it can be used as a DOS: keep stealing the key, and forcing the people to buy all new locks every day.

    2. Re:make entry a noisy event Re:Illegal by mikael · · Score: 1

      It would be better if the knox box just stored an electronic swipe card that could unlock one door.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    3. Re:make entry a noisy event Re:Illegal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't you just use electronic keys? Mechanical keys are so 19th Century.

  39. Ordinarily? I'd agree, but... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps you've seen this before yourself: Ever see a house that gets abandoned? For SOME reason?? To me, @ least, it seems like the house "dies faster"... that's right. I've got 1 that got abandoned @ the bottom of my land, & for the 1st year or so, it seemed to "hold up" pretty well - however, after that??? It 'went to shit', really, Really, REALLY fast!

    * It's almost like the house "loses something" when it's no longer dwelled in... & I don't mean just "regular maintenance either (kind of hard to explain unless you've seen it yourself).

    I think that when a home's dwelled in, it lasts longer (mostly maintenance, but it's almost like it has a 'spirit' when it has people in it too).

    APK

    P.S.=> I think maintenance and people living in homes helps, but in the case of those castles (1 that I saw AMAZED me in Poland - it LITERALLY had 365 rooms in it, & the guy that built it was supposed to be more-or-less, as wealthy as Mr. Bill Gates is today, albeit in those days) - I'm going to go YOUR way on it! Just massively BETTER construction... granite blocks the size of automobiles sure help!

    I guess You have to SEE these castles to TRULY appreciate them!

    2 of the 1st things I look @ in homes? If stone/brick?? The state of the mortar between them, AND, what kind of wood is beneath the flooring (thicker the better, & if possible, steel support beams) in ANY type of home. Then, I go to the exterior & check if its AT LEAST aluminized (better yet, vinyl siding) & that the eaves over the edges of the roof don't let water FLOW down the sides of the house (I see a LOT OF THAT in "modern homes" in these large newer housing tracts)...

    ... apk

    1. Re:Ordinarily? I'd agree, but... apk by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      I understand that a lot of that is that people living in a house tend to keep it somewhat dry (this will be climate dependent). I have seen structures in Scotland that had been abandoned for centuries and the basic shell was still in good shape though and in at least a couple of places around here, stone chimneys still stand where the rest of the house hasn't even left an impression.

  40. Old stuff with good marketing -- preying on fear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I personally have been involved with reinforced concrete construction for houses since the mid-1990's. It's called Insulated Concrete Forms -- blocks of EPS which you stack like Lego, add rebar as you go and then fill with concrete. Your reinforcing schedule is per standard ACI schedules (here in the US; I'm sure there is an EU equivalent). The EPS stays in place and provides thermal insulation. It may be stuccoed, or panel products (drywall) can be attached. Concrete core thicknesses vary from 4" (10 cm) to 15" (38 cm). About a decade back Texas A&M University was given a research grant to develop a "tornado safe room" for homes and their final design used ICFs with as I recall a 6" core (but may have been 8"). They tested the construction by firing dimensional lumber at it with an air cannon.

    ICFs are a very superior construction technology, but they are not without their unique challenges. An architect who is not familiar with them will make a mess of his first design or two, because they *do not* go together like a stick-framed wall. It can be done, but will cost -- in 2005 I built a multi-family house with 31 corners to its footprint, 8 of those 31 were right angles all the rest were odd. Additionally, the resulting envelope is *extremely* tight, which presents HVAC challenges not found in most houses. There is also a rather high first-cost, not only is it a slower process than banging together a wall with nail guns, but the materials are pricey. The flip side is that climate conditioning costs will be far less (heat or A?C) and it is literally rock-solid structure that will not blow away.

  41. pipe dream by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

    It is easy to design a house to withstand multiple types of disasters.
    However, the pampered rich will not buy them.
    If you entertain, you cannot have a long entryway to repel home invaders.
    If you want a view of the water or mountains or whatever, you need to carve holes in the sturdy walls in put in windows that _will_ fail when the wind gets strong enough. And most emergency preparedness is not a one-time thing. It is the maintenance of keeping batteries charged and an emergency food supply up-to-date and having sufficient -liquid- gasoline (it jells over time).

    That said, those homes will sell for the same reason folks bought/built nuclear shelters in the 1960s. Fear and lack of foresight. (And the homes will only -appear- to withstand multiple disasters up until the time one actually occurs because they will have windows that fail and homeowners who don't understand generators and a house staff that will stay at their own homes instead of show up during a disaster to take care of white folks who probably vote Republican.)

  42. Then start using stone to build houses by johanw · · Score: 2

    When I see pictures of the storm damage, I notice most houses in the USA seems to be built of wood. No wonder they are not storm resistant, did they forgot the story of the 3 little pigs and the wolf? In the part of Europe I live almost all houses are built of stone, storms do cause damage but you never get complete villages completely crashed. Wood is used for garden small homes, not for the house you normally live in.

    1. Re:Then start using stone to build houses by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Hope you don't get Earthquakes; stone and earthquake don't go together to well. Just look at what has happened in Turkey and Iran this last decade or so.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    2. Re:Then start using stone to build houses by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      And look at all the stone buildings in Italy that are over a thousand years old.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  43. Cheaper solutions are available... by evilviper · · Score: 1

    You don't need to go nuts to get a home that'll survive massive destruction.

    Wood-framed homes are plenty strong to survive massive destruction. The failures happen where the various frame pieces join together, hence the Hurriquake nail designed just for this purpose: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HurriQuake

    Secondly, I've seen the aftermath, and heard from residents, and you get a pretty clear map of what works and what doesn't... The houses destroyed are the ones that didn't have steel shutters... all the the surviving houses have steel shutters on them. Those big pieces of plywood you see people attaching just aren't nearly strong enough (without extra framing), and your home is long gone the instance the envelope is compromised.

    Build your home with hurriquake nails, and have steel shutters installed, and your home will handle immense forces, without needing massive design compromises that make the resale value about zero.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  44. Add Solar Panels to the list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cities should provide heavy funding for Solar Panels on every roof-top, saving cities $Billions of dollars.
    FEMA & Governors should get together to create State-to-State storm drains, preventing states/cities from floods.
    Creating storm drains from city to pond or local lake isn't going to resolve Super Storm and Hurricanes that
    is as big as a State.
    The Mississippi river should also be channeled to mid-western states
    during Hurricane season(s), saving states/cities from floods.

  45. insurance subsidized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead, the government compels insurers to cover them anyway.

    Actually coastal insurance is government subsidized as well as subsidized by regular insurance buyers. Gotta take care of them rich folk with oceanfront property, ya know.

  46. It doesn't have to be expensive by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    It doesn't have to be expensive to build a house than can withstand hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, fire, etc. Nor does it have to be very large. Our family's home cost only $7K to build and is a comfortable 252 sq-ft for five people. We built it in two months by ourselves - just about anybody could do it.

    As an added bonus, our house's 100,000 lbs of masonry (stone, brick and concrete) stores heat very well so the house is cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Even without auxiliary heat the house stays above 45ÂF in the dead of winter here in the mountains of northern Vermont when it is -25ÂF outdoors for extended periods. We burn a mere 0.75 cord of maple hardwood a year in our wood stove to bring the cottage up from that to a toasty 70ÂF for my wife who likes things a little warmer.

    Another advantage of this construction is it is virtually maintenance free. No painting, no roof to repair or reshingle (the roof is a concrete barrel vault), and the house can be earth bermed for even better performance and to make it blend with the landscape.

    Because the house has such a high thermal mass we are able to have a lot more windows than a conventional house without overheating. Our east, south and west walls are virtually all windows. Shutters can protect the windows during bad storms - a simple, traditional method of quickly closing up.

    Our house will also probably last hundreds to thousands of years. Far longer than conventional stick built houses.

    Frankly, there is no good excuse for building the fragile stick built houses.

    Location is also important. Don't build where it will flood. That land is better for forests, fields and crops or just wildlife.

    If you are curious and would like to see our house visit:

    http://sugarmtnfarm.com/cottage

    where you'll find pictures and articles about how we built it.

  47. Screw the hurricanes, it's the FBI that worries me by EWAdams · · Score: 1

    Hurricanes you can see coming. But having some malicious person report you for being a terrorist, or possessing child porn, is all it takes to get your door smashed in, your family terrorized, and your house ripped apart.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
  48. Aha! Thanks for the "enlightenment"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the 'hurricane straps' & the "WHY" of why they're used in these homes in Florida!

    From the sounds of it? You've got experience here - Sounds like an engineering/physics standpoint almost.

    (I'm no builder by trade, so I can use whatever feedback I can get here on this note... since, to be honest? It just made sense to me to use both! Guess there's times when "common-sense" can FAIL you, & this appears to be "one of those times"!)

    * "Live & Learn"...

    APK

    P.S.=> & yes, that makes sense, as to your explanation of it!

    ... apk

  49. Not TRUE At All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The catch is that when the house goes down the people go with it. The economics of a structures must not control the quality of the structure. If you take the cost of construction into account suppose that it is 30 years before nature takes down a building. What is the replacement cost going to be thirty years from now?
                        I am in a zone frequented by hurricanes. I've been through quite a few. But can you imagine what the cost would have been to flee from each likely strike of a storm for the last 55 years? First, you must run early as when others wish to get out it is impossible so one must flee at the first hint of a storm. When the storm is over you need to be home instantly to protect and mitigate damages. Mildew can be a disaster if water has gotten in so you really need to get things done very quickly. Add the losses from not being able to return for a couple of weeks until roads are cleared and planes can land. I would have had to sponsor an evacuation at least once every year and it would be rather distant as hotel rooms closer to home sell out at first hints of a storm. Figure at least $1800 per year for each evacuation and an additional $5,000 in repairs for not being at home to protect and mitigate damages. Then consider the loss of personnal effects, your hobby items, motorcycles, boats, clothing, furniture and papers.
                        The cost of even partial failure of a structure is a nightmare. Having to consume raw materials is a nightmare to nature. A building that functions well for hundreds of years is a wonderful goal.

  50. Fear by RuaisLampSilog · · Score: 1

    Fear is the best salesman.

    --
    We all knew this would happen. Alas, we did it anyway.
  51. Re:Just buy an army surplus tank or armored carrie by snspdaarf · · Score: 1

    "Attention, Unit DNE of the line..."

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  52. Concrete dome by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    High above the flood plain. Takes care of most things.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  53. sarcasm by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Oh, sorry about that.

    it is hard to determine sometimes.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  54. Location Location Location by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My home was chosen well. I'll be buried in my back yard 'cause I'm never going to leave.

  55. let it blow down and rebuild... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    'Cause, you know, we'll always have that option. There'll always be building materials, money worth something, a functioning economy and plenty of energy. Yeah, no worries. La de da. The only sense you'll ever have to worry about is financial, now go back to sleep, sheeple.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  56. Re:Don't forget the terrorists and media pirates! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny that this is both on-topic and incredibly insightful yet is moderated down. Good job Slashmorons!

  57. concrete dome by blunte · · Score: 1

    Or they could just build a monolithic dome for an 8% premium and get all the benefits and more.

    --
    .sigs are for post^Hers.
  58. False Economics by jep305 · · Score: 1

    "it would make more sense to let it blow down and rebuild it.''

    This does not take into account at all the major life disruption that happens when a family loses their home, nor the potential lives saved by "fortress" construction.

    If my kids do not get killed in a hurricane and we don't have to live like refugees for several months while struggling to find or build a new home, what's that worth?

    --
    In Reason We Trust
  59. did you read the standards? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    http://disastersafety.org/wp-content/uploads/FEH_HURR_designations_IBHS.pdf

    If you read through the standards (from BRONZE, to SILVER, to GOLD), "Fortified" pretty much means only that they're following reasonably standard levels of construction. For example "GOLD" requires "a continuous load-line from the roof to the foundation" and "chimneys be adequately anchored". I think it was BRONZE that '"studs have to be less than 24" (61cm) on center"? Seriously?

    I'm in MN, and very little of the 'fortification' is anything more than the standard methods used in construction in the parts of the country where we have seasons.

    If we built our homes to the (apparently) sub-Bronze 'standards' they've been using, that wouldn't be considered a 'home', it would be a playhouse or a shed.

    --
    -Styopa
  60. trade-offs by White+Yeti · · Score: 1

    I've heard that, in addition to smoke removal, fresh air (or water) lowers a room's temperature and can prevent flash-over. There must be an optimal solution among the inputs -- people get degrees in this stuff.

  61. Geese? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

    Odd you should mention geese. There are actually U.S. Army bases that use geese as alarms, placing them between fence lines surrounding the base. They make a lot of noise when unauthorized people are in their space.

    As for geese attacks, I'd tend to discount that. Yes, they will do that. I've been attacked several times; I used to be a photographer and would often shoot wedding portraits at a lake with geese. I've seen several brides and grooms attacked without much damage as long as they moved fast enough to prevent the goose from latching onto clothing. They got some good stories to tell, though. I've been forced to kick a couple but that seemed to make them think twice and they appeared none the worse for wear.

  62. Maginot lines don't work. by Medievalist · · Score: 1

    Fortified homes only defend against what you expected to be up against when you built it.

    The best defense against crime is availability of good jobs in your area. The best defense against natural disasters is a well integrated community that can pull together when the unexpected inevitably happens.

    1. Re:Maginot lines don't work. by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      If they're known and can be worked around they do not but if you need just a couple minutes to respond they can. I prefer technological solutions but physical can be lower maintenance in the long term so a mixture is a good compromise.

      Since you've mentioned jobs, home fortification is a booming topic on the survival forums. It's usually just a dull roar but it's perked up quite a bit as of today. However not a one of them seems to get that encouraging the economy would keep them safer. It would sure as hell be cheaper than some of the farting blowhards solutions.

      I do not believe a fortified home is much good for any protracted time. One that is intended to do more than slow down an assault is too expensive. I'd prefer a distributed alert architecture among a neighborhood where all home owners work together. I've seen that done in a ghetto with telephones in the 1990s and in a rural area with bells, telephones and internet from when I was little to now. In both cases I've been impressed with how well it worked.

      Now if it gets so bad we end up with pastoral barbarians then I am going to fort up my villiage. ;)

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty