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China's Stealth Fighter Flight Test Successful
New submitter vencs writes "China has successfully tested its second stealth fighter, a smaller, twin-engine jet that military analysts said could potentially allow it to one day fly missions from an aircraft carrier. Military analysts said the new jet's design suggested the People's Liberation Army might use it to arm and escort aircraft carriers like the Liaoning, which was officially deployed last month. Andrei Chang, editor-in-chief of Kanwa Asian Defense Monthly, said the new prototype appears to have borrowed features from the U.S. Air Force's twin-engine F-22 and U.S. Navy's single-engine F-35C."
Their jet is so stealthy, even the word jet only appears as je in the story's synopsis above.
Oddly enough he didn't go so far as to actually hire any Chinese actors though.
This is Slashdot.
We don't steal technology and knowledge.
Also how could they? Do they have direct access to the planes? Inspired by I suppose. But don't all?
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that if you want to look at it that way everyone has stolen the technology from Germany.
How would anyone know it's been tested?
It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.
"the new prototype appears to have borrowed features from the U.S."
It's very likely that China stole the technology for this fighter via cyber attacks to facilitate data exfiltration activities over the past decade, such as during the Titan Rain era. China is working diligently to position themselves as the next hyper-power on the planet. Stealth technology is critical for force projection where China seeks to dominate other countries, knowing the U.S. may enter a new Cold War and supply the middle-state pawns with surface-to-air missiles.
The real zinger is going to be stealth drones launched from carriers in the near future.
Regarding Titan Rain and Chinese cyber attacks on the USA:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1098961,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_Rain
Whatever, fellah. I'm just trying to imagine some middle-aged army getting all indignant because the other side is shooting flaming arrows... "Cheaters! That's our idea, we did it first! It's for us to use against you, not the other way around! If you win and kill us all, it doesn't count!"
While China is stealing western tech for stealth, we are moving towards automated drones to take on enemy aircraft. In fact, it is likely that the F-22 and F-35 will be the end of American fighters.
Other than drones, we really need to focus on better defenses, and better protection for communications.
That means lasers as well as rail guns. In addition, the DOD really needs to spend money on thorium reactors. They will need to provide tanks with high electrical output to do either a laser or a rail gun.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
No need to build new aeroplanes or, heaven forbid, work on innovative new designs. Just attack them with...patents! All those rounded corners must, surely, breach some spurious Apple patent or other. Microsoft can claim that numerous of their patents have been infringed and demand payments with menaces but never be willing to say exactly what patents were infringed. Paul Allen and Lodsys had best stay out of it as we don't want these aircraft to travel to an East Texas kangeroo court to defend their claims
It might look like F-35, whether it actually has all the necessary components to be called the fifth-generation jet and whether they all work as advertised is another matter.
So pretty much the same as the F-35 then...
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Nobody reacted that way when the Soviets and Chinese got the Bomb
you know, that show for teenage girls.
That was only the last season. Granted, that one was rather painful.
Ezekiel 23:20
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What we did to Germany wasn't so much stealing as it was pillaging.
"Did you see our new stealth fighter?"
"No?"
"Damn we're good!"
There's that and there is the fact that so many people of Chinese extraction with questionable loyalties are working for defense contractors, the government, and etc. where they can learn all of our secrets and report back to the Motherland.
I'm not sure what you mean by problem. It's expected that other countries will gain US technology. It's just a matter for the US to continue development of better radars to detect stealth planes.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
You mean 'Liberated'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_down_of_F-117
The U.S. has lost at least one stealth aircraft that other countries could use to reverse engineer the stealth design/stealth coating.
"you know, that show for teenage girls."
Do you mean that it is for young lesbians as well?
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
What they've apparently forgotten about is high-flying xenophobia. People outside of China, emigrants excepted, generally can't speak nor read the languages used in China, and that's a very fertile ground for xenophobia. It'll take very minor propaganda prodding to turn essentially all of the world against China. They'll be a very sore winner at best.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Yeah, because you, dear AC, are so much better than everyone else. We're all human, it must have slipped your mind this morning, I guess.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Didn't something also crash in China? I vaguely remember something like that happening but google is failing me.
"Do they have direct access to the planes?"
Only if they went along to the last arms symposium and bought some. You do realise that things like that are available to all? I went to some when I used to work for the military and there was everyone there buying everything they wanted. Even countries like Indonesia who wanted some fighters to shoot some of their more troublesome plebs but they had to buy 2 seaters and call them training aids because they were not allowed to buy anything called a fighter. As I was working with IT at the time I was wearing a badge that said "Information Services" and everyone kept moving away from me for some reason.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
The United States will confront China, no doubt about that.
No looting and raping? Wasn't worth effort without the looting and raping.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Found what I was looking for. Wasn't stealth though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident
What he really means by that is that they have one with 2 engines and one with only one engine. Clearly have 2 or 1 engine is a US patent.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Russia arse raped Georgia a couple of years ago and the US did not blink so I think it may only be some of Europe that would get a reaction and then that would be a limited reaction.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Actually it is older radar with a longer wavelength that is better at detecting stealth planes. I was working with ATCs in Europe a few years back and it came up that on one island that I went to their radar could see the stealth planes as clear as any other plane because they still had old radar.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
None of that matters -- if China isn't directly threatening Europe or Israel, then the US doesn't give a flying fuck what China does. China has been able to rise precisely because it's located far from those countries and thus wouldn't trigger alarm bells from the their powerful US foreign policy lobbies. As for any rising potential threat to the US itself, that doesn't matter -- the US doesn't pursue its own national security, just the national security of other nations/continents who have strong lobbies in Washington.
What about Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, South Vietnam (R.I.P.), Singapore?
I kinda doubt that China's ability to project force is limited by their planes not being stealthy. Sure, that improves their ability in air combat but it's the simple logistics that they lack in. The US is far more capable of moving people, equipment and supplies around the globe. A stealth fighter won't do you any good if you cannot keep it supplied with ammo and fuel. The further away its supplies are the more time it spends traveling back and forth between its home base and the combat zone, giving it less combat time and likely less payload per run. That was one of the issues with the Me 262 back in the day, the places where the Luftwaffe wanted the things were too far away from the airports they had so the jets arrived with so little fuel they almost had to turn back right away. So much for superior technology.
And then there's the issue with stealth not being a on/off thing, stealth comes in varying degrees and while a plane may be stealthy that doesn't mean it's completely invisible. E.g. the F35 is significantly less stealthy than the F22 but it's so much cheaper that we don't care.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Does the US NEED to react? China has a prototype stealth fighter. The NATO has tons of stealth fighters and bombers that are ready for combat. The Chinese fighter has not shown its actual combat abilities yet, there's more to a 7th generation fighter jet than just stealth.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
MIGs use Klimov RD-33s. Chinese J-17s and J-31 use Klimov RD-93. Different modification of a same engine. They used engine which was already verified and used live in other Chinese fighter plane. Chinese don't have MIG-29s.
Well CLEARLY, America's only answer to this is another $50 billion in stealth fighters that we can store in a military hangar for the next 100 years.
In Yugoslavia, in 1999, a USAF F-117A got shot down. Chinese intelligence agents went around buying up the pieces. Six weeks later, the US "accidentally" bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade with five laser-guided bombs.
That said, if they're using F-117A-grade stealth coatings, that puts them a solid 20 years behind the US. I mean, like I said, the Yugoslavians shot one down with a modified Soviet SA-3.
... that show for teenage girls.
The show featured teenage girls, which suggests that it was actually made for teenage boys.
When you get older this will make more sense.
"appears to have (borrowed) (parentheses mine) features from the U.S. Air Force's twin-engine F-22 and U.S. Navy's single-engine F-35C" (I think you mean stolen)!
The communist Chinese have always been short on originality and Long on thievery.
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
Yeah, but being made in China the thing will break before the warranty runs out - probably within the first month, then when you check the paperwork there is no phone number or address for the company, and when you google it all you find is alibaba listings to purchase the same of crap. Then, you check out epinions and an amazon listing and everyone gives it a poor rating. Oh, and let's not even think about the lead paint.
Piece of crap.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Another industry we can outsource to China! Look at all the money we'll save!
Welcome to the Turing Tarpit, where everything is possible but nothing interesting is easy.
You worry too much. You simply dump the thimble of thorium to dump below. Issue solved.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
China seeks to dominate other countries
Interesting theory, but do you have any evidence to back it up? Does China want to dominate the US or Europe, for example?
The Chinese position is a reaction to US foreign policy. Not just the wars and invasions, the damage to other country's economies. China doesn't want to dominate the US, it just wants to counterbalance it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
âoeThe rules of fair play do not apply in love and war." - John Lyly
Dude. You used to work with the militarydoing "Information Services" and you've never heard of ITAR? Why don't you work for the military anymore, are you at Ft Leavenworth or what? They don't just let anyone buy that stuff, and there are serious consequences for breaking the rules. Selling a "Training Aid" to Indonesia that violates ITARS is a big no-no. I know someone who is a corporate lawyer for Northrup Grumman whose sole job is to find employees authorizing such sales and helping the federal government prosecute them. It carries a very stiff penalty.
I am sure if a part of your country declared independence with Russian help you would sort of get annoyed and send in some soldiers, too. In fact, wasn't there this "Confederate States" for a little while? 1860-ish? Ring a bell? No Russians, though.
I'm not sure if you're aware how most of the far east works but if you look at diversity they're not full of immigrants. China has ~500,000 foreign nationals out of 1.2 billion people. Let's use another example, Japan. 1.6% of Japan's legal residents are foreign nationals. You're arguing that the 'outside world' is xenophobic of the East? Traditionally both of these countries have been isolationists and not exactly hospitable to "barbarians".
Ethnocentric view points are nothing new. Many cultures have tales of hermits, strangers, foreigners that are viewed with suspicion. Grossly simplified international politics can be likened to schoolyard behavior. Its not much a of a leap to see why xenophobia exists; fear of the unknown. An interesting article relating to racism in China which might be of interest.
Is it xenophobia or ethnic nepotism?
Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
US has told Taiwan to shut up about independence, and has turned a blind eye to the KMT's return to de facto dictatorship by jailing political opponents. US only needs weapon sales to Taiwan, to feed the weapons industry lobby.
Even the arms sales are pretty limited.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
It's anything but stealthy with all those hardpoints and external pylons.
Nobody knew the Russians would actually fight back. Hell, in the Western defense press, there was article after article of defense "analysts" scratching their heads and saying such stupid things as: "We didn't even think Russia had working tanks any more!" and "They spend such a small amount of money on their military that we thought they wouldn't be able to fight even a minor conflict!"
Of course, none of those analysts want to mention that with state-owned defense firms, Russia can do the same work with $1 that the US does with $1000.
Well the F-35 was jointly developed with the UK and other nations. We will definitely be sharing it with those, and other nations that are considered trusted. We sell Apaches to Egypt, Kuwait, Qatar, Isreal, and a lot of other countries. Do we sell them a B2 bomber? Nope. Is it possible that we'll sell an F-35 to someone, who will then resell it to another nation? Perhaps, but they would be cut off from future parts and aircraft if they are caught doing so without permission.
How could you say such a thing? Pretty much every major US company manufactures everything they sell in China. If they just said, hey, sorry, we are not shipping any more consumer goods to your country, our economy would totally collapse overnight.
China also has another weapon that nobody ever likes to talk about - their government treasury prints all the Chinese money. They do not have to borrow money from the international financial cartel. This insulates them to a large degree from world financial problems. That, and the fact that most Chinese are still effectively peasants, beating at the soil with a rock tied to the end of a stick.
No, we will not confront China. At least, not until our manufacturing base is relocated.
The United States is an agrar export nation. China is the workbench of the occident. It makes a lot of sense to confront the nation and split it. What some call chinese dialects are in fact completely different languages, China is socially, technically, culturally etc very diverse, makes sense to support seperatist movements.
The plan of killing China by moving a bunch of companies over there to manufacture low- and high-tech goods has failed miserably.
No, China isn't splitting apart because they have different languages. This plan has been tried and it has failed miserably. Just look at all the success that the Hollywood-driven "Free Tibet" nonsense has had! We tried through a 55+ year CIA infiltration program, with the media softening up the USA to favor the brutal Dalai Lama, and threatening to exert some kind of theoretical (and it turns out, totally fake) international pressure, and that failed. This, in the most culturally, geographically, and linguistically distant part of the actual PRC.
If we really want to split China, we will have to do it in another way, not by continuing to enrich their economy, give them endless free high-tech manufacturing facilities, etc.
Talk to a Chinese person some day. Most haven't even heard of the Tiananmen Square massacre.
I am not speaking of Free Tibet, Tibet is not China but seized territory but no one cares over there. I mean more the conflicts between say an urban shanghai population, Beijing and rural provinces. It is a quite common saying among Chinese to "end China". They simply lack imagination.
"The plan of killing China by moving a bunch of companies over there to manufacture low- and high-tech goods has failed miserably." That was not the plan. The plan was to sell socks to 1 billion Chinese and alleged growth potential which stems from that. But seriously, we learned from the Soviet Union how to overstretch an empire.
If you think Tibet is seized territory than you are totally unaware of the history of the interactions between China and Tibet.
Tibet was a warlike kingdom for a very long time, which attacked China and extracted tribute for a long time, until China invaded and took it over. It was an official protectorate of Imperial China for hundreds of years.
Anyway, the Tibetans are much better off under the ChiCom than they were under Lamaism. At least they can ride a bike over the next hill without receiving the death penalty.
I think the plan was to actually create wealthy Chinese through factory partnerships, then help these people get into power, where they would gradually weaken the Communist government. Thing is, it was a terrible plan from the get-go and it hasn't really worked.
The Wang Lijun incident has showed anybody with eyes to see that we are still operating power-brokering scandals in China, but they have been effectively squashed and Bo Xilai who I suspect was our man on the inside is now disgraced, and I'm sure the hardliners over there are watching out for other Manchurians of ours, which undoubtedly exist.
I see the chinese espionage is alive and well. That plane looks almost exactly like an X-35, except it has two engines instead of one.
I can agree with a single statement. US defence firms can do diddly squat with $1000 Russkies can do exactly as much with $1.
Are you denying the fact that the Western intelligence analysts were totally floored by Russia's blitzkrieg into Georgia?
You can deny it but it's true.
No, the ATC said that the first reason that he contacted the pilot was because the transponder was turned off, and the pilot was surprised that he could even see him. As for your stupid "No you didn't", if you are really that young you are not really worth communicating with.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Russia moved Chechen troops into South Ossetia and they had been attacking Georgia for months before Georgia retaliated. It was stupid but it was not Georgia that attacked first.
http://gozie.com/video/5A99NA87MR74/Putin-Russia-amp-the-West-The-War
I believe that South Ossetia was just smoke and mirrors and that what Russia really wanted was the deep water port in Abkasia.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Their agreement with Russia does not allow them to arm the Carrier in any conceivable way including placing armed planes on the ship. Their agreement allows them to use the carrier for one thing, testing and training. Maybe they'll violate the Russian sale agreement, I really don't think they will.
Actually the Russians had been shelling Georgia for months before Georgia retaliated
http://gozie.com/video/5A99NA87MR74/Putin-Russia-amp-the-West-The-War
but in reality, I think it is more likely that Russia was after the deep water port in Abkasia as Ukraine was refusing to renew the lease on Sevastopol (they did renew in the end) at that time. Russia has kept Abkasia.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
It's worth noting that Indochina and Indonesia are much more diverse ethnically (including large ethnic Chinese populations in much of Indochina). Those are generally considered part of the Far East as well.
This is Slashdot.
We don't steal technology and knowledge.
Also how could they? Do they have direct access to the planes? Inspired by I suppose. But don't all?
Anyway, what I wanted to say is that if you want to look at it that way everyone has stolen the technology from Germany.
Seriously?!?!?!
Why is this guy's post modded "insightful" and not "funny?"
Wow. That fuselage's black, curved rectangu... Christ! It's violating the Apple iPhone patents!
Have you actually read about Tibet under Lamaism? There were two classes of people - the Buddhist monks, and slaves.
If you left your home village without permission, the punishment was that your legs were broken and you were left in the wilderness.
Sexual slavery of acolytes was not just common, but the rule. I could go on, AC, but I think you were just here for a drive-by or else you would have posted under your real account.
By the way, I'm a loyal American, and I really have no love for the ChiCom or the brutal Lamas. It's a bit easier for you, though, as I'm sure you get all your information about Tibet from Alec Baldwin.
What has it got to do with alleged superiority of russian weapon-makers? Then again, considering that I would not trust western intelligence analysts with organizing a pissup in a brewery... you are right - they were caught with their pants down once again. I wonder if they ever have their pants up. For any person blessed with more than one brain cell it was obvious that an attempt to bring the errant colony back into the fold was just a question of time.
I was mostly thinking about rocket engines and people working with rockets and whatever research and researchers.
Both the US and Russia for sure wanted to get whatever they could get.
I have too little knowledge about actual planes.
What's the major threat of Indonesia? Seem to be top us here in Sweden.
But I see now you're ranked #18 against our #28 over at:
http://globalfirepower.com/
Total Population: 245,613,043 [2011]
Damn =P
Defense Budget: $4,740,000,000 [2011]
Seem like our defence budget is higher (but then services it buy are likely more expensive?)
Defense Budget: $5,500,000,000 [2011]
Your purchasing power is higher.
Hang on a moment - they tested a stealth plane - and we saw it?
Um - I rate that a fail.
"Cats like plain crisps"
Who said anything about superiority? The Russians are simply more economically efficient, but I don't know if that translates into overarching superiority.
A simple thought exercise for you. We are discussing a field in which I worked. I was there, these were the people I worked with.
A total stranger is telling me that the experts are wrong and which do you think I will listen to. I am not interested in getting into detail but I do know how and why this works. It was my job to know.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
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Also how could they? Do they have direct access to the planes?
They don't need direct access. The People's Liberation Army hacked into the networks of American defense contractors and stole blueprints and data http://cnsnews.com/news/article/chinese-hackers-stole-plans-americas-new-joint-strike-fighter-plane-says-investigations. If anyone had any questions who was behind these attacks, the fact that features of the F-22 and F-35 are now showing up in Chinese planes pretty much eliminates all doubt.
Borrowed? Like they are going to give it back?
Hey, calm down. It's only IP. They probably got it from a torrent.
--
Flag signal ZL - "Your signal has been received but not understood."
Am I the only one that sees the humor here of testing stealth technology?
So where is it? Oh it already flew by... (snicker).
Best plane ever, we'll order a thousand of them.
Please make the check out to "CASH". k thx bai!
I agree, but that misses my point. China may become a sole world superpower, but they'll be pretty much isolated in their victory.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
"Do they have direct access to the planes?"
Only if they went along to the last arms symposium and bought some. You do realise that things like that are available to all?
Not our stealth stuff. We do not sell F-117s, B-2s, or F-22s to anyone. The F-35 is only available to a short list of friendly countries.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!