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Software Uses Almost 1/2 the Storage On 32GB Surface Tablet
First time accepted submitter jigamo writes "Microsoft's newly released Surface tablets are available in 32 and 64 GB capacities. The company has disclosed how much of that space is available to the user. After taking into account Windows RT, Microsoft Office, built-in apps, and Windows recovery tools, nearly 13 GB of the available space is eliminated from user accessible storage. Microsoft's recommendations for adding additional capacity are to use cloud storage, a memory card, or a USB storage device."
A Tablet full of Microsoft, whats not to love?
13GB is not bad. I made the mistake of getting a 40gb SSD for my Windows 7 partition. I recently upgraded it to a 120GB one, much better.
It seems ridiculous to me that 13GB is taken by the OS and built-in software.
How does that compare to iOS? And to be fair, how does that compare to iOS+Pages+Keynote+Numbers?
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Ok, so you're accounting for what is likely to be the largest single software install (as in storage) available for the unit outside of the OS. What is it without the Office package?
And don't forget to say that cloud storage is no good in Canada, where uncapped internet doesn't really exist, and mobile plans are absolute garbage.
Yes, it's so bad that it's worth mentioning twice.
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I thought all that was stored in the tiddly-winks chips.
(16GB for Windows, Office and media apps.... my Desktop uses FAAAAAAR more. Get it through your head people - Surface is a touch screen ultrabook, not a tablet.)
It's supposed to be a freakin tablet.
Which is a freakin' computer running a freakin' operating system.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
It does say almost half on a 32GB tablet. I don't know about your world but 40% is almost half in mine.
because you might need them when things break.
it's windows.
also, my android phone have a file system browser, a notepad, and a command prompt, and they take waaaaay less space
factor 966971: 966971
Here is my recommendation: "Buy something else."
I for one, bought a Google Nexus 7, and quite like it.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
There are options if you want unlimited Internet in Canada. Fewer or greater depending on where you live. They do tend not to be the mainstream carriers though. Fortunately, I happen to live in a small area serviced by a cable provider that offers unlimited.
Indeed. I remember when a 40gb disk was huge.
To... much... bloat...
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
What did you expect? Of course to be fair, if you install a *full* version of the average desktop linux ( or bsd ) distribution you get tons of stuff by default too. Most of it you dont want.
But still, for a tablet product they should have gone out of their way not to just toss crap onto it. Space is not cheap, like it is on a desktop.
Idiots.
Calling other people idiots doesn't make them so. As for your comparison with a Linux Desktop with a healthy selection of Apps I am running at 7GB after many months. I suspect a fresh install would require much less. Ubuntu for example https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements suggests 5GB.
It accepts a MicroSD, so who cares? Contrary to the market-segmentation-via-soldered-in-SSD strategy of certain other companies, the fact is, the stuff is very cheap - $1 per gigabyte.
Well, it's actually kind of cool that the user can pop in a memory card. I guess I have gotten a little to used to iProducts that don't allow such niceties.
So there is a 16GB Surface! :-)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I'd rather take a device with 13gb free space and a memory card slot, rather than one with 28gb free and no way to expand.
Other misc recommendations
REMEMBER, TABLETS ARE LOW MAINTENANCE! (compared to PC's)
With Love,
Microsoft
PS: You really did not think things would change THAT much!
Notepad: 189KB
dxdiag: 336KB
regedit: 10KB
cmd: 337KB
total: 872KB
is like 4GB alone. They need to get rid of the bloat if they are serious about mobile/tablet.
40GB? Heck, I remember when 40MB was huge. I remember when 5MB was amazing.
Now get off my lawn.
So this was always my assumption of putting a full OS on a tablet. It simply would not have enough power or memory to really make it work, even using something like the simplified interface that was so-recently-called-Metro. Even the 64 GB iPad is getting insufficient. I am not going to buy another until there is 128GB.
So, big surprise, building a table to meet a price point is not going to result in a high end experience, no more than buying the cheapest laptop allows one to create a feature film. In this case, however, we may find that bloated software may not even allow one to write a memo in MS Word. I suspect we will find the low end solution is still going to be Android and Google Drive.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
It is great that the surface has a micro-sd card, but it suffers the same issues that the android platform has, which is that you can NOT install apps on the micro-sd card. For comparison, both IOS 6 and Jelly Bean are around 2gb in size.
You misspelled "apple land" there. Microsoft handily includes a microSD port with its tablets.
You seem too used to the fact that in apple tablets and phones, whatever memory you buy the device with, you're stuck with. This is not the case here.
Nearly 13GB should be enough for everyone.
5GB is a recovery partition.
3GB is lost* due to 32GB drive = ~32,000,000,000 bytes. System reports that as 29GiB.
* The advertised local disk size is shown using the decimal system, while Windows displays the disk size using the binary system. As a result, 1 GB (in decimal) appears as about 0.93 GB (in binary). The storage capacity is the same, it's just shown differently depending on the how you measure a GB (decimal or binary).
I'm an iOS guy, and let me say that the lack of a file manager is the most irritating thing about using iOS. I understand why Apple designed it to keep application data in independent silos, but that's often something you've got to work around. What makes RT interesting by comparison to iOS is that you do have a full file manager, you can access network drives, and you can shuffle stuff around just as if you were on a desktop machine.
And how much is it to add an additional 32gb or 64gb to your iPad if you hit your storage limit?
You swap some data out to external storage, just as Microsoft recommends.
$20 or $49 like the Surface or more?
You can't put apps onto external media on the Surface either.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's supposed to be a freakin tablet.
Which is a freakin' computer running a freakin' operating system.
With freakin' lasers attached to their heads!
This may not sound convincing to the nerds who know their way around a computer, but the Surface is a Windows machine, and an iPad is an iPad. The concept of storage device, drive letter, file location is not really required on an iPad. I suppose you can say you need to know whether it is on the iPad or on the Cloud, but that's different from which drive to access to find your movie file, or which memory stick to use (did you label it?). Sure, I'd prefer a device with cheap expandability, but the iPad has sacrificed in a lot of areas to be as simple as possible, and for a vast many people that is a good thing.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
This was from my 4th computer:
http://fatphil.org/images/im_floppier.jpg
Next!
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
You can only use that space on the SD card for data. You cannot use it to store apps.
Say the Surface's memory is evenly divided into 16 GB for the operating system and included applications and 16 GB for third-party applications, with all music and movies on a microSD card. What kind of application collection takes up 16 GB, other than a bunch of hardcore games? I thought hardcore games weren't ported to Windows RT, and most apps and casual games were far smaller than that.
The Surface comes partitioned with a 3.5GB recovery partition, which can fully reset the device including drivers, OS updates, full volume encryption + losing the recovery key, and people running amok with Admin permissions (assuming they don't mess with the recovery volume itself). The iPad, last I checked, still required the use of a real PC if something goes drastically wrong and it needs resetting. It can handle typical reset scenarios just fine, but can't be used to downgrade (or so I'm told; that may be wrong). I don't know if the iPad even supports installable drivers, either (although on the Surface RT, they must be signed by MS so hopefully not *too* much harm would occur from them).
The Surface also comes with the standard suite of Windows admin tools, including the Management Console and the Disk Management snap-in for it. You can modify the partitions if you want to. You could even back up the recovery volume to a USB storage device or NAS (the device supports booting from USB, not sure about NAS) and then remove the recovery partition and extend the main volume to fill its space. You can also mount a removable storage device, such as a microSD card or USB Mass Storage volume, into the root filesystem. Can an iPad do anything like that?
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
It's not like you can use that card to install applications on, so what does it really matter?
Media collection?
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Well since music and movies can all be obtained through the cloud
The cloud is useless if it can't be reached because A. you have the Wi-Fi-only version and are away from home and open hotspots, B. you have no cellular data subscription, or C. you've already burned through your data plan this month.
Or of course just keep some media on external network devices
Which portable external network devices are you talking about?
or SD cards
I guess the Surface can, but I wasn't aware the iPad could play movies and the like from an SD card.
8GiB for RT+Office+apps
5GiB for recovery
That's 13GiB gone. From 29GiB, that's almost half.
'After taking into account Windows RT, Microsoft Office, built-in apps, and Windows recovery tools, nearly 13 GB of the available space is eliminated from user accessible storage.'
I don't really get what your complaint is here. The summary seems pretty accurate, especially for slashdot.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
So I have been trying to figure out what on earth is taking up the 13GB, and here is what I have so far:
Recovery and EFI partitions - 4.0 GB There are two recovery and one system partitions. The system partition appears to be there for EFI. Pagefile.sys and Swapfile.sys - 2.6 GB Virtual Memory! Program Files - 1.0 GB This is mostly Office, with a few other things thrown in: IE, Windows Contacts, Photo Viewer, etc. Office occupies about 630MB Windows/System32 - 1.75 GB This is the core of the OS Windows/Fonts - 400 MB Some really large font-files here, but Windows does ship to a huge international audience with complex script support. Windows/Speech - 400 MB Speech Recognition and Text-to-Speech. Windows/IME - 200 MB This is the support for inputting complex scripts among other things. Dominated by Japanese, Simplified and Traditional Chinese. Windows/Microsoft.NET - 200 MB .NET frameworkI also have about 800 MB in a SoftwareDistribution folder, but that may be tainted by Windows Update (there were patches available on the first day, literally, weighing in at 600+ MB - for the Office update to RTM among others). Another curiosity is that there is a 10 MB SysWOW64 folder for some reason. Aside, I have not checked how big the system registry hives are.
My user folder is about 2.0 GB, most of which is in Windows Store apps. Still trying to find a way to visualize how much each application takes.
So far that adds up to 10.55 GB (11.35 if including SoftwareDistribution). I have purposely left out the WinSxS folder, because I have no way to telling what its real on-disk footprint is until I figure out how to scan a folder for hard links, which may not be possible on WindowsRT.
Having to buy and carry around an add-on is functionally the same to you? And only "slightly" less convenient?
The more misleading drivel I read from you the more convinced I become that you are Slashdot's best troll ever; Poe's law in action. It is solid platform for a Slashdot troll.
I'm not sure why pointing out that having to purchase a $30 add-on that hangs out of a device (in other words cannot be left in all the time) makes me an "android folk". Android is not even in the discussion so you can relax- the boogeyman isn't out to get you here.
I am terribly sorry if the truth offends you; a hard life is in store for you I fear.
Not quite sure what that really means. You seeming like a troll doesn't hurt my feelings at all.
It's a little hard to understanding[sic*] how pointing out a fact is misleading.
I'm fairly certain you know exactly why it is misleading but I will spell it out anyway. The Surface has an SD slot. I could plug an extra N gigabytes of additional space into it and forget about it. The iPad does not. The iPad apparently has an add-on called a "camera connection kit" made to load pictures which appears to also allow loading other media as well. This is not plug in and forget. This is: "hope you remembered to bring it when you feel the urge to use it". Most people do not even know this exists; fewer would use it.
I know somebody poked fun at an iPad's lack of expandable storage but it was not a personal attack against you. You are not an iPad. You know what people mean when they talk about expandable storage. You know the iPad does not have it in the same sense. Nonchalantly claiming the iPad has expandable storage is a lie of omission.
You might be OK misleading people even in jest; I am not. I want people to know how things work so they can intelligently decide between devices.
You say that but your post history shows the opposite. You clearly aim to mislead people when you say the iPad supports expandable storage. You are always sure to fully articulate any shortcoming in another product:
No you cannot just forget about it. You can't put applications on it. You have to remember to save media to it separately.
You cannot do that on an iPad so this is not a pro/con list between the two devices. Neither do this. Nor does it change the fact that once my SD card is in the device I can forget about it.
You always overlook the shortcomings of any Apple implementation:
You swap some data out to external storage, just as Microsoft recommends.
You already know for a fact Microsoft does not recommend you buy a dongle so you can temporarily plug in an SD card. If it was the other way around and Microsoft's tablet required a dongle we both know you would be proclaiming how terrible of an experience that is.
The only time such expansion really matters is for something like a long trip with spotty access to data connections, so in the end that difference does not really matter much.
Just plain false. Cell data is expensive (and only available on a small percentage of tablets) and wifi is in no way ubiquitous enough in most of the world to make "the cloud" a viable alternative to local storage.
I post facts; you post facts but omit the whole story. ... It's hardly misleading when it does in fact do exactly that.
When I buy an iPad can I plug in my SD card? No? You mean you omitted the part about needing to buy an additional dongle?
You keep insisting you cannot do something that you can; why would you state something so plainly false? It would reduce trust of your views in the anyone reading your posts.
Can you or can you not install apps to an SD card on an iPad? Without Jailbreaking (we'll assume for a second the user knows they need a "camera connection kit" and does not think it is a ridiculous requirement).
You are wrong. Cell data is not that expensive; but more importantly in everyday life WiFi is pervasive.
Cell data is expensive. Denying that is asinine. Wifi is not pervasive in any useful measure. It may almost always be present but it is not very helpful to have an encrypted AP. Yes I have wifi at home and at work but both of those places my tablet is really only going to be used as a remote control. Where are the number one spots media on a tablet is useful? Probably trains, buses, bus stops, malls. Some of those will have wifi, some of them will have poor quality wifi and most of them will have no wifi. No matter what remote storage has degraded availability over local.
I am not quite sure exactly what you are going on about "well off enough to buy a tablet" and their "networking environment". They really have nothing to do with each other. Large metropolitan areas occasionally have good wifi availability. More often than not, though, a few key points have wifi access here and there. I imagine you will find a small percentage of the united states has open wifi availability. You may only travel between work and your home but many people "well off enough to buy a tablet" probably leave their little city bubble and would like to listen to music while doing it.
In any case I am more reassured now that you are a troll. Definitely one of the best (possibly the very best) I've seen on Slashdot so congrats on that. What concerns me is how often people agree with your most likely (hopefully) trolls. Troll on.
Where I live, I cannot travel from my home to my work without losing the (supposedly city-wide) crappy 'free' WiFi signal almost as soon as I leave either place.
But mostly people are loading media where they work or live. Point, me.
I have travelled all over the world and not had an issue getting WiFi if I needed it.
Perhaps you should get out more and think about how people really use devices.
How well does that work for you on road trips? There's only so long that I can linger over a mochachino at Starbucks before going completely mental...and I am absolutely not anal (or, admittedly, organized) enough to pre-plan my entire road trip playlist beforehand! Me, I just pack along extra SD cards with more songs/videos from my library instead...a quick swap and I'm chilling to classic rock instead of alternative, or watching sci-fi instead of comedy.
I can only cite how I use my devices, and AFAIK that's for pretty much the typical things people use devices for: playing music and video, taking and looking at pics and (of course!) playing absorbing little games. Oh, and reading ebooks, although those don't really add to the storage crunch at all, being so relatively tiny.
My phone is used mostly to surf the interweb, youtube, email, twitter (but not FB, eww), etc., and with that, I still typically use well over 2 GB a month of my 5GB plan. I couldn't even imagine what I would be pulling if my music and video came from the cloud instead...yikes.
Oh yes, you definitely don't live in Australia or New Zealand, do you? Friends and I took a trip down that-a-way a couple of years ago, and let me tell you, unless you really like McDonalds and StarryBucks, there's no such thing as free wifi anywhere. Heck, all of the hotels and campsites we stayed at had a charge-by-time or (usually) charge-by-MB access fee to use their WiFi. The airports charged for the wifi, fer chrissake. It really sucked, since I brought some shiny toys along and planned on Skype'ing back home fairly regularly, but we hardly ever could (you know how much data Skype uses? it's goofy) I'm just glad for those SD cards, or we would have gone batty listening to the same 30 albums or so...I know, I know, FWP :)
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant