Motorcycle App Helps You Ride Faster, Turn Sharper, Brake Harder

Hugh Pickens writes "Alexander George writes about a new app that takes the data from a smartphone's accelerometers, GPS, and inclinometer to plot information for braking force, lean angles, speed, and on-track location onto Google Maps to shave precious milliseconds off each lap time in motorcycle races. Race Sense is designed to be a useful tool for someone who races for a living and a very fun toy for those who just like to brag about what lean angle they got at their ride day, and what top speed they reached down the main straight. Australian Grand Prix motorcycle road racer Anthony West provided much of the R&D that went into tweaking the app. 'With sponsorship's so hard to find and I need another way to survive. I spent some of my own money developing it with an Italian guy who also likes to ride himself, and who writes programs,' says West who designed Race Sense to fulfill the needs of a genuine MotoGP racer. 'Sometimes it's one second [separating] 20 people. If you adjust one little thing thinking about something in one corner you can lose four places.'"

Comments

This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the feeling that people are going to try using this to perform techniques that are above their skill level. They will probably die. Its awesome for racers who are trying to shave time off their laps, and who are in a controlled setting. For most riders, I think this will lead to a slight increase in fatalities.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Random Data]

Or it could save people by letting them realise just how awful their riding skills are, with some pointers to improve them. Watching people try to drive or ride on a twisty road shows you just how poor most of them are at picking lines, making corrections if required, and judging entry/exit speeds. This is supposed to be used on racetracks, which means the local fun roads will be tracked/mapped about 3 seconds later.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

That was my thought, I suppose he could charge quite a lot per copy and probably cut that risk down. But, I'm not sure if enough actual racers would be around to make it worthwhile.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how looking at a phone while riding aggressively affects lap times... or the ability to finish at all. ;)

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good news for those in need of organs!

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or it could save people by letting them realise just how awful their riding skills are, with some pointers to improve them. Watching people try to drive or ride on a twisty road shows you just how poor most of them are at picking lines, making corrections if required, and judging entry/exit speeds. This is supposed to be used on racetracks, which means the local fun roads will be tracked/mapped about 3 seconds later.

Nope, I think it will kill people, because those with just enough skill to push the limits will push them too far. Just like "defensive driving" and "extreme driving" courses have proven to make drivers less safe because they THINK they know what to do in a situation they experienced in a class one weekend.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[mrbluze]

I have the feeling that people are going to try using this to perform techniques that are above their skill level. They will probably die. Its awesome for racers who are trying to shave time off their laps, and who are in a controlled setting. For most riders, I think this will lead to a slight increase in fatalities.

This app would make an excellent gift for certain people...

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully, the people using this will either mount the phone on the tank or on the tail so it is out of view.

This won't stop irresponsible people from being irresponsible, but at the track we tape over things that could be distracting to the eyes (speedometers, lap timers, etc) that way we don't try to check them instead of watching the turns/other riders/turtles that may be trying to hitch hike.

And no, you don't need to see the speedometer at the track. Your gut/butthole provide much more feedback in much less time than it would take for your brain to process looking at the speedometer. Although, again, a lot of these things are actually out of view of the rider because of the posture you're in.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[2fuf]

Smart phone apps don't kill people, reckless drivers kill people.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

And how is this app different than an athlete on Steroids ?
So we now have racing based not just on skill , but how well the app is tuned ? Ridiculous !

Re:This will probably kill people.

[interkin3tic]

perform techniques that are above their skill level

Not a rider, so I don't know, but if you perform the "technique" of turning, isn't that "your skill level?" How else do you learn to take a corner well, if not trying to corner well?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[drinkypoo]

You start slow and work your way up at your own pace. Racing against another's time is almost as good a way to get out of your comfort zone as racing against another person in realtime, except there's no passing moves to worry about.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Lumpy]

The idiots that ride without full armor and helmets? yes. But that's just Darwin. Luckily most tracks will not allow morons on the track without real gear.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[gtirloni]

These people aren't bad drivers because there wasn't an app to show them how to be better. You have to dig deeper.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[DaveV1.0]

No, it will encourage people to ride more aggressively so they end up in wrecks and dying.

Then, people like you will blame the "cagers" when, in reality, it was because the rider was weaving in and out of traffic doing 90 in a 45.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Smart phone apps don't kill people, reckless drivers kill people.

Very few have a practical use for a motorcycle. In most cases it's just an expensive toy.

Now tell me, what use would a responsible driver have for this app? It seems that this app was written to "optimize" irresponsible behaviour and cut out the small margins for unforseen events that the reckless drivers still have.

Not that I want to forbid people from using it. I just don't want my insurance company to fork out money when someone who uses this app ends up in an accident. I'd rather see that money spent on people who end up in "real" accidents and not manufactured ones.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[UnknownSoldier]

Only a fool judges and disrespects other people's belief system(s).

Re:This will probably kill people.

[fche]

... including that belief system wherein one may judge and disrespect other people's belief system(s) ?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[fafaforza]

Right. You aren't looking at the device while riding. You look at it after putting in a few laps to see where you're losing time. You analyze the data, go back out to alter your braking point, acceleration point, etc, put in a few laps, and compare.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[fafaforza]

What sort of "techniques" are you talking about exactly? Do you think this app is designed to let you recreate the Tom Cruise front wheel one handed stoppie while rotating 180 degrees in order to shoot your uzi at the bad guys?

This is probably nothing more than an advanced lap timer, a data logger, which tells you where you are losing time _on_ _track_. This means, you're braking too early, or you're braking too late, going too deep into a corner resulting in a slow exit speed resulting in a slow top speed down the straight. Sports like F1 have been using stuff like this for years, and it's simply making its way to bikes. I think that for the most part, professional racers use their feel only to know where they're losing time.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[nedlohs]

It's for people involved in bike racing. You can call that an expensive toy, and of course it is. But compared to what people spend on other sports it's hardly at the extreme end - a bike is expensive but so is the combined salaries of a football team.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[deroby]

Just wondering, but isn't the speedometer a necessity in racing ? As is some indication that you're over-revving the machine for instance ?
=> Sure, your "gut" can guesstimate how hard you're turning into a corner but if you KNOW it can be done at speed x, then why assume that you can 'feel' it better than (or just as good as) a quick glance at the speedometer ? Feels like a lost opportunity if you actively shut it out.... Heck, you probably could have the app tell you if you're above or below the 'required' speed using some kind of signal (audibly (probably not an option as those racebikes make one hell of a noise, really not my cup of tea) or visibly via some light that's mounted in the peripheral of your eyes. Red = too fast, blue = too slow, green = within margin). You'd still need to decide if you go along with it, but I'd guess that it would make you think twice to add that little bit of extra when science predicts you won't make it.

On a related note : I've found myself on the road going into situations where I assumed my speed was x while in fact it was well above that... (*) Luckily I don't have to drive 'at the edge' and so at worst I was mildly surprised and needed to brake a bit harder than foreseen; but I guess when you're flirting with the laws of physics you don't have that luxury.

(*: I guess this happens when doing a long drive and the brain seems to get used to the speed, or maybe I just got drowsy, not impossible either. In each case, IMHO 70 kph in the first 5 minutes always feels faster than 70 kph after doing an hour of 120 kph on the highway)

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Shatrat]

It doesn't give you man tits? Also, the million dollar electronics in a modern MotoGP or WSBK motorcycle make this app look like a childrens toy.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[gninnor]

I'd like to see that study. It seems to me that the kind of people that would take those courses may have had some selection bias.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[hawguy]

I have the feeling that people are going to try using this to perform techniques that are above their skill level. They will probably die. Its awesome for racers who are trying to shave time off their laps, and who are in a controlled setting. For most riders, I think this will lead to a slight increase in fatalities.

Worse is that unless the app restricts data collection to known race tracks, some motorcyclists are going to use it on public streets to show the fastest "lap" and greatest lean angle on popular motorcycling routes. And when the motorcyclist exceeds his ability (or exceeds the safe speed limit on the road), he'll not only take out himself, but also an innocent driver or bicyclist on the road.

A similar app for bicycles that has a "king of the mountain" contest for the fastest time on bicycling routes has been blamed for encouraging a reckless bicyclist to mow down a pedestrian:

http://www.bicyclelaw.com/road-rights/a.cfm/road-rights-suing-strava

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Walter White]

One risk for riders is to follow someone more skillful than themselves. That can result in getting in over their head and resulting in a crash. I suppose that's the risk the GP alludes to.

OTOH, the app could simply satisfy someone's curiosity about their riding. I suspect I would discover that I don't lean near as far as I think I do. ;)

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

And how is this app different than an athlete on Steroids ?

Because the rider still has to do all the turning and driving himself? In the end, this app is not much more than an automated coach, that tells a person what they could be doing better, while it is still up to them to actually do better. It has been pretty well accepted anyway that people with better coaching in most sports will have much better opportunities to reach maximum potential faster. Just now it can be had in part for the price of a phone, instead of a salary.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Spy Handler]

No, racebikes don't have speedos. Anyways a speedo has nothing to do with overrevving, if you're concerned at that you should be looking at the tachometer, not the speedometer.

Racers (at least motorcycle racers, I donno about cars) don't think in terms of "Ok next corner is a 75mph corner". They think in gears, as in "This is a third-gear corner and I should be at 7000 rpm when I begin my drive out of the corner"

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Stolpskott]

For sure, there will be people using this app while on their bikes, who come off the bike and die or seriously injure themselves. There will also be a number of people blaming those deaths on the app (or the rider's use of the app). While I personally do not agree - my opinion is that any rider who dies or is injured in an accident while using this app are themselves to blame for the accident (assuming that no-one else is involved).
The app will not force you to carry extra speed into a corner, lean further, brake later, or use it on public roads. Those are choices made by the rider, who is/should be an adult, and therefore capable of taking responsibility for their own choices and the consequences that flow from them.

What would be really nice is if the app refuses to work if the GPS device on the phone does not show the phone as being on the grounds of a designated racing circuit. :)

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't look at your gauge cluster. It's too far out of view (racers don't sit on top of their bikes, they hang off the sides). Honestly, I don't know anyone that even looks at their tach. We have shift lights, but you can tell where you're at in the rev range based on sound and power delivery. And in the event you forget then your rev limiter will remind you. :-)

What some people don't know, or don't realize, is that at the track there's only one thing you are focusing on and that's the next turn. So you're fully aware of your velocity, where you need to brake, where you need your body, and where you need the bike. 99% of the time the only place you're looking is where you want to go, which is way out in front of your bike. And your bike is capable of a lot more than you are, so almost always your limiting factor is what you /think/ is the limit, so your gut gets tight and your butthole closes shut when you start to test your limits. Your brain will recognize if you're going into a turn 1mph faster than you have in the past and it will let you know in every way it knows how (more adrenaline, an "OH SHIT" feeling, total panic, whatever you're set up to do).

Whereas when you're driving on the road you're worried about paying a bill when you get home, or who let the DJ play that crappy song, or what a road sign up ahead says. You get lost in thought, you realize you don't remember the last kilometer of driving, or whatever. Not because you're bad drivers, just because the different circumstances give you a luxury of time.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[cellocgw]

Would you care to elaborate? We should all respect Scientology or the Flat Earth Society?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Em Adespoton]

Only a fool judges and disrespects other people's belief system(s).

Wait a minute... are you calling my belief system foolish?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Lumpy]

Are you really that uneducated? Let me guess you feel that safety gear is all fake and you are as safe riding naked.. Please feel free to ride naked, Darwin is waiting for you.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[kanwisch]

This is how I would use it, as well. For instance, maybe it gets sophisticated enough for me to use measurements from laps and events such that I can identify problematic corners or compare in context of suspension changes.

The issue of an increase of squids dying using this device will be meaningless in the aggregate. There are already lots of those. New lawsuits? Maybe, but isn't that what ToS are for?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Viceice]

Turning safely, and cutting the fastest line around a corner are two very different things. The faster you go around a corner on a 2 wheeler, the more you need to lean. While leaning, your centre of gravity shifts, the contact area between the bike tyres and the tarmac changes etc.

Cutting fast corners is relatively safe to do on a track, but on public roads, a puddle of water, a patch of sand or some leaves fallen on the road would be enough to throw you off and kill you.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[UnknownSoldier]

Sure.

Everyone has some domain where there knowledge is incomplete or idiotic. Judging a person doesn't help them to change.

IMHO it would be far more constructive asking HOW they got to that belief in the first place instead of criticizing their results. You start with their first assumptions, tracing the validity of the assertions, until you reach where logical error was. Telling them that their conclusion is invalid doesn't help them change, now does it?

i.e. Instead of pointing out how ignorant the Theist, Atheist, or Agnostic is, it would be better to get them to explain their definitions and beliefs. Then you see where the flaw is in their logic and provide counter-examples that show that there is an alternative definition that is more complete / wholesome / holistic.

> We should all respect Scientology or the Flat Earth Society?
We should respect all people _irrespective_ of their belief, otherwise you look like an asshole. Of course you don't have to agree with those beliefs, but if you can't "agree to disagree" you just look like a childish jerk. How about setting the proper example instead? "I disagree because of X, Y, Z, etc."

Only by respecting their beliefs AND understanding the person, can someone be informed and respond in a polite intelligent way in the hope that they will embrace a more complete belief system.

I can _completely_ understand why someone would ride without a helmet. They are 100% justified in their belief. Does that I mean I would do it? I believe there are other reasons that are more important FOR ME. Telling someone is a moron for doing something you can't fathom doesn't help _you_ understand _why_ they would even come to that conclusion in the _first_ place.

Hope this helps.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[cellocgw]

Your response is both incorrect and naive beyond belief. I suggest you start out by reading any of the dozens of psych studies which have shown that any attempt to teach a fool that his beliefs are wrong, or founded upon errors, will completely fail. Next, look up the difference between "judge" and "respect." And finally, understanding why someone rides w/o a helmet does not in any way mean they are "100% justified in their belief." Unless, of course, you insist on that hopelessly foolish premise that a person can take something on faith alone and that will justify an action. People who operate on faith have no assumptions (in the scientifically useful meaning of the word), so there is no logic and no way to point out flaws.

Here's a flaw in your logic: I can fully fathom the causes of these morons actions. I even understand why they come to their conclusions (even though the answer is usually 'because someone told me...").

Re:This will probably kill people.

[yurtinus]

Pretty sure you won't find that study because it doesn't exist. *Some* riders will take what they've learned in class to ride more aggressively on the street, but most track riders do their aggressive riding on the track.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, I think it will kill people, because those with just enough skill to push the limits will push them too far.

I agree. The same problem was observed in Åre, Sweden, when an app "king of the hill" was relased to make people race their skiis. The app itself challenged people to drive faster and faster to beat the high score, and there were several severe accidents as a result.

http://ltz.se/nyheter/are/1.4471891-vattenfall-svarar-pa-appkritiken (use google translate to read)

Re:This will probably kill people.

[yurtinus]

Those riders are out there and they get no pity from me - hopefully they grow up or thin themselves out of the population before they hurt anybody. However, when a huge percentage of cars simply don't see us when they merge into us or turn left in front of us - we get quite wary of cars on the road. "Sorry, didn't see ya there" is a poor enough excuse for a fender bender with another car, but it can be fatal for a motorcycle.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[yurtinus]

I can completely understand why somebody would ride without a helmet as well. As far as I'm concerned, they should be 100% entitled to do so. However this isn't about beliefs - it's about facts. There are concrete observations that clearly show reduced risk of injury and death when wearing a helmet. If somebody chooses not to wear a helmet and accepts those risks... well fine. If somebody *believes* in not wearing a helmet though... Well, they're a moron.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[yurtinus]

My belief system is based in judging and disrespecting others, you insensitive clod!

Re:This will probably kill people.

[yurtinus]

He sees "App helps you ride faster" and draws conclusions from there.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[UnknownSoldier]

> I suggest you start out by reading any of the dozens of psych studies
That's your problem right there: You are *reading* _instead_ of interacting with people; However your premise is correct: You can tell the truth to a person all day long, it doesn't mean they will accept it. The point is not to change them, but to _understand_ where they are coming from. BIG difference.

> And finally, understanding why someone rides w/o a helmet does not in any way mean they are "100% justified in their belief."
My brother's father-in-law, and brother both drive without seat-belts.

Naturally both of them have been given tickets.

They both have had the judges toss their cases out due to it being unconstitutional. (First one was in New York State, the second in North Carolina.)

Likewise, if someone rides without a helmet and is harassed by the ignorant police, they could justify the law being unconstitutional, IF they FULLY understand the law. (I do not recommend they do this as most people do not understand the ramifications of this.)

Before you call someone naive you want to remember the adage: "Better to say silent then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

> People who operate on faith have no assumptions (in the scientifically useful meaning of the word),
Uh, you DO realize _everyone_ has faith right?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[UnknownSoldier]

forgot to add:
"Better to say silent and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is such a good description about racing, I love the OH SHIT feeling, it means your trying. great description, can I steal it for my blog..?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[DaveV1.0]

Maybe you should learn to not ride in people's blind spots like I did. Oh, wait, you didn't realize I am a rider too, did you? Ride responsibly and you won't have that problem. I should know. I live in one of the worst places in the United States to ride a motorcycle. Most riders I see ride the assholes.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[yurtinus]

Simmah down now - I didn't make any assumptions in my post as to your rideredness (as you so quickly did about mine...). I'm simply saying that - as you should be *well* aware of - motorcycles do not register as readily in the eyes of drivers as other cars do. We're smaller and they aren't as used to seeing us on the roads. Regardless of how skilled or responsible a rider you are, there is still that chance you won't be able to avoid that oncoming car turning left in front of you or you won't see that car back there merging onto the freeway and across all of the traffic lanes.

I'm not trying to blame cars for all motorcycle accidents. I can't argue that cars kill motorcyclists more often than motorcyclists kill themselves because it's simply not true. All I'm saying is a driver is more likely to notice another car than they would a motorcycle.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[chrismcb]

I have the feeling that people are going to try using this to perform techniques that are above their skill level. They will probably die.

There are a lot of toys on the market, that if people use incorrectly to perform techniques outside their skill level, they will die.
What is your point?

Re:This will probably kill people.

[cellocgw]

Just goes to show there are outliers in every group. You'll be a lot happier on Yahoo Comments than here.

PLONK

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Burning1]

Some riders do think in terms of gears, but most of the racers I know don't. Motorcycle transmissions are sequential, so I generally think in terms of how many down-shifts we need to make while entering any particular corner. We use beginning and end of brake markers, as well as multiple reference points through a turn and speed judgement to try to set entry speed, and control our lines.

Your information is good though. you seem to do some performance driving.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Burning1]

The issue for many novice riders is in their ability to judge entry speed for a corner, and set a line. There are a couple of common issues that come up...

Entry speed is too fast. The novice rider feels confident approaching the corner, but as they begin to turn-in, they have an 'oh shit' moment, panic, grab the brakes, or turn in too early.

Turn in point is too soon. This is a common mistake, that comes out of panic. The rider or driver tries to cheat by turning into the corner earlier than they should. This forces an early apex, and forces the rider to correct after the apex, or risk running off the edge of the road.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[Anonymous Coward]

That organ donors thing is a myth. After being scraped off the road with a spatula, the organs of motorcyclists are far too crished and mangled to be of further use.

Re:This will probably kill people.

[randyleepublic]

... and it is the first totally unhackable app in the history of programming...

"If you adjust one little thing"

[Neil_Brown]

Does the additional weight of a smartphone count as one little thing?

Re:"If you adjust one little thing"

[TwentyCharsIsNotEnou]

Nope. A racing driver will test in many conditions, with various fuel loads being one of the main considerations. If they were actually to be so picky, they'd just reduce the fuel level by the weight of the phone.

Re:"If you adjust one little thing"

[Neil_Brown]

Interesting — thank you.

Re:"If you adjust one little thing"

[6Yankee]

One more thing, surely...

Re:"If you adjust one little thing"

[CastrTroy]

But unless the phone is located in a the gas tank and has the same physical properties as gas, then the effect won't be the same. Gas tends to slosh around in the gas tank, especially as it empties, a phone would not slosh around. Ok, really I'm joking. You're The weight of the phone isn't going to make a lick of difference. The weight difference from the phone is peanuts compared to weight lost of burning gas or from sweating during the ride. Not to mention weight lost as the tires wear down. Which in a race is appreciable. The weight of the phone makes about as little difference as whether or not you just at a hamburger.

Re:"If you adjust one little thing"

[inline_four]

Adding a phone to a race bike does not affect anything in a meaningful way. It's not just a factor of mass, but where it's located and what it's doing. Since such a gadget is relatively light, does not move relative to the bike or suspension, and can be put almost anywhere, it's largely a non-factor. On a bike, where you are on the seat, where you are with your upper body, how you're anchored against the bike, and similar body-english considerations, as well as the fuel load, are much bigger factors than whether there's a few ounces of static mass tucked away somewhere in the middle of the machine.

tech helps

[Anonymous Coward]

but just like with people using cheats/aimbots in games, the main question is: what's the point of getting external help? Nobody might catch you but you are living a LIE.
Either it's you getting your bike ahead the others, and you are good, or you and something else are really in charge of driving, and you are not that good.

Of course in professional sports where all it matters is getting into the first places, everything that helps will be implemented. But then again, the opposite of the concept of sport IS professional sport...

Re:tech helps

[GameboyRMH]

Then why not get rid of speedometers, section timing, and maybe tachs and fuel gauges too?

Re:tech helps

[Lumpy]

Many do. Almost no race bikes or race cars have a speedometer. Just one large Tach. And all tracks will black flag you for running a timer to check y our lap times. The drivers job is to drive not look at gauges.

Re:tech helps

[GameboyRMH]

Many do. Almost no race bikes or race cars have a speedometer.

Almost none of the very serious purpose-built ones (although it's becoming less uncommon on more recently-built vehicles). Most of the vehicles actually going around a track, which are production-based, do.

And all tracks will black flag you for running a timer to check y our lap times.

For open track/HPDE that's true, but that's not really racing is it.

Re:tech helps

[tom17]

And all tracks will black flag you for running a timer to check y our lap times.

What? Is this a USA thing? Just a certain class that you race in?

Every track I have ever raced on in the UK & Europe allows lap timing. Never heard of it being disallowed before.

Re:tech helps

[fafaforza]

Out of curiosity, what do you think this app actually does?

When a scientist uses a measuring device to better understand something that he couldn't understand fully with a naked eye, is he cheating? Living a lie? Are we as human beings big frauds because we use microscopes and know about things like bacteria and mold? Should we kill half our population because they should be dead from cholera and do not deserve to be here?

These are some confusing sentiments I'm reading on here regarding a simple data logging app...

Re:tech helps

[LurkingSince1999]

And all tracks will black flag you for running a timer to check y our lap times.

For open track/HPDE that's true, but that's not really racing is it.

All the HPDEs I've been to allow data collection as long as it's not visible/accessible during your on-track sessions. None have set up a beacon for lap timing. I'm told that's a restriction of the liablilty insurance provider. During the motorcycle track days I've done, about 75% of participants run a lap timer. There is always a beacon set up.

Personally, I can't wait to try out this app on my next track day.

Re:tech helps

[Burning1]

Data analysis is not a cheat or an aim-bot. I say this as someone who races motorcycles: I wish more people would use data analyzers - they'd be better, faster, safer riders.

Different sanctioning bodies set different rules for what is allowed, and what isn't allowed in each racing class. In general, most racing organizations now permit traction control, ABS, and launch control, although in production classes there is often a restriction that the bike must have come originally equipped with those features.

Cheating at the club level most often comes in the form of illegal modifications, and usually qualifies as blatant cheating. For example, last year someone was caught running a GSX-R 750 engine in a GSX-R 600 chassis in a 600cc class. It's not terribly uncommon to see production bikes subtly modified in ways that aren't permitted by the rules. Sometimes cheating comes in the form of unintended violation of the rules - a while back, we had a major championship decided by an illegal brake fluid cover.

Re:tech helps

[chrismcb]

Huh? The phone isn't driving the bike. The phone is just measuring what you did. You could have a coach standing on the sideline telling you to do things, is that cheating and living a lie? If you use lap times to help, are you living a lie?

So; just like Pirellis old app, "Diablo", then?

[Anonymous Coward]

He has copied a well known app from one of the biggest motorcycle tire manufacturers (that I have used for some time now).
app in appstore
IS THAT REALLY NEWS WORTHY OF /.?

Re:So; just like Pirellis old app, "Diablo", then?

[GameboyRMH]

Hahaha it goes back waaaay further than that. There were apps like this for PalmOS devices. And of course even before that, there were the specialized data logging computers that did the same thing.

Motorcycles are loud enough already . . .

[PolygamousRanchKid]

. . . and now they will be augmented with the noise of iPhone fart apps?

An iPhone on a motorcycle . . . this could be the new Suicide Shift on Harleys!

Re:AND BEST OF ALL BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently not; The damage that happens in most motor cycle accidents means they aren't even useful for that. What you really need are things which destroy the brain quickly and completely whilst leaving the heart still able to keep beating (external stimulation may be allowed?). Any suggestions for a sport like that we could make popular?

Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[nloop]

Really? A plug for a paid app? I feel like you're trolling me slashdot. The only possible reason I can see to post this is as prologue to an American lawsuit the first time a user dies using this app on a highway.

On a similar note, perhaps a story about the lawsuit against Strava would be more appropriate? A free cycling gps app that has the ability to ghost race yourself, your friends, and strangers was sued for negligence when a user broke the laws of the road trying to win a virtual race and was killed in traffic. See what I did there? A piece of free software, most people own a bicycle, tricky legal questions arising from technology, more than just an add.

But hey, what do I know? I'm no Samzenpus!

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to mention the prosthetic and completely unnecessary apostrophe in "sponsorship's". For fuck's sakes, I might as well gb2 /b/.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

or the fact that the app isn't even available yet

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[L4t3r4lu5]

While I agree with your overall objection of this being neither newsworthy or anything more than an advertisement, the stub says that this is a track day app. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't function on normal roads, just like the Nissan GTR disables a speed limiter only when you're on a track (by GPS location).

If it does work on the road, then maybe people should take some responsibility for their own actions and not race on the fucking road.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[GameboyRMH]

To make it not-work on the road, you need a database of the coordinates of all the tracks in the world. If this were a few years ago I'd sure as hell expect that from a non-free app.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a bullshit lawsuit.

Fucking idiots.

The cyclist was the negligent one, not the training app, not the bike manufacturer, not the road surfacing company, not the street light company or anything else that might have factored into this persons decision to ride fast.

What was the argument? The device didn't tell the user that the laws of physics still apply? That the device didn't try and stop the user from zoning out and thinking they're in a game?

Fucking. Stupid.

As a developer who created a ghost running app, if someone pushed themselves too far because of how the music is fluctuating or a tone sounds, then fuck them. Running app uses GPS/pedometer, fluctuates music play to motivate, also warns you when lagging, and allows a more precise audio feedback of how far in front or behind your previous self you are. Ideally with micro-directional piezo emitter modeling (directional sound in earphones) I wanted to create the sound and sensation of your own footsteps chasing you. :p but, alas, fuck it. Well, at least it is here so no fuck will patent it.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[pev]

Some of us quite like reading about interesting technology, especially those that ride motorcycles! It's also interesting to hear about lone developers working on things that were previously only in reach of professionals with large budgets i.e. race teams with money to spend. Oh, and of course theres a good healthy slice of physics involved too. Great stuff.

On another note, slashdot would be REALLY dull if it never mentioned products that you have to pay for! Of course if you don't like it, you can always filter your feed to only include open source stories and you'll be blissfully ignorant of the other stories...

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[thoth]

I think this is kinda cool, the creative/useful apps people make that use the power of the modern smartphone - accelerometers, GPS. Geez, just think that 20+ years ago the idea of having a small computer along to measure/record driving data, and then graph information, would have been a dream, stuff only for F1 racers with huge bucks. But no... most the reactions are legal piling on.

This country is messed up... most people can legally own guns (and the manufacturer of said guns have no liability for a person's actions, say they shoot their coworkers at a chicken processing plant), but an app writer that writes a data recording/visualization app has to deal with legal threats (when a careless user harms themself).

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[gtirloni]

Maybe they should. Except they never do and people die.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks! I have been looking for something like Strava!

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[L4t3r4lu5]

I'm all for people dying, as long as it's only those whose idiocy and lack of common sense put themselves in those dangerous situations. With any luck, they can be out of the way before they're put in charge of something where their reckless attitude has the potential to ruin the lives of other people, like working heavy machinery, or making financial investments.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[MarkGriz]

Say what you will about Digg.com, but at least they offered the option to bury shit "stories" like this

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[sunderland56]

To make the whole thing completely moronic: it's a plug for an app THAT ISN'T AVAILABLE YET.

I'm in their target market, and was interested enough to go to the app store to check it out.... and it's not there (that I could find). So now I'm ticked off that they wasted my time, and probably won't buy it if/when it comes out.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[ed1park]

agreed! now time to dl that app and head to the track! B)

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Strava user I am totally excited about this post. Maybe I can use the motorcycle app to improve my lines, and thus my Strava times.

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

..just like the Nissan GTR disables a speed limiter only when you're on a track (by GPS location).

Rumor 1: Nissan’s GPS will only allow full-speed operation in the U.S. at Nissan-approved tracks.

There is no speed limiter on the U.S. spec GT-R unless you count the rev limiter.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2009-nissan-gt-r-ownership-myths-dispelled-car-news

Re:Slashvertisement & Impending lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the app doesn't exist. It's a story about a promotional website. You sure enjoyed reading that article

Auspicious Beginnings

[Anonymous Coward]

Hooking up with an Italian guy who likes to ride is the best start to any project

Re:AND BEST OF ALL BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR !!

[Anonymous Coward]

idk erotic auto-asphyxiation?

but it wont..

[Anonymous Coward]

help you find and pick up hot biker chicks in bikinis.

therefore worthless

Re:but it wont..

[GameboyRMH]

Just slap a Ducati or Aprilia sticker on your Jap bike. Win/win! :D

Re:but it wont..

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, my R6 kicks Ducati ass, no way I'd deface it with a Ducati sticker

Re:but it wont..

[GameboyRMH]

But you could kick their ass AND take the ass they were going to get! Think about it!

Re:but it wont..

[mcgrew]

Not if you're trying to pick up women. Women want Harleys -- they tell me that a Harley is the world's best vibrator. She'll get her rocks off before she ever gets of the bike.

Re:but it wont..

[GameboyRMH]

This is true, but you should consider the kind of inked-up rockabilly chick you're more likely to attract with a Harley, whereas a horrendously overpriced Italian bike (or reasonable facsimile) will attract the classy gold-diggers ;)

Plus why satisfy her before the ride's over with a lumpy V-twin, when a smooth performance engine will tease her halfway there >:)

Re:but it wont..

[yurtinus]

Mod parent up - the women who want Harleys tend to look a bit too much like the men who want Harleys...

And die younger

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people don't think it through. Otherwise the article would have this posts title at the end of that enumeration in its title.

New evidence for speeding violations... coming up!

[LostMonk]

Do you really want your smartphone collecting information about you when you're fooling around on your bike? more evidence your for future speeding tickets? I can already see court orders waiting in line for the company's data.

dot, dot, dot

[ThatsNotPudding]

...Crash Faster (freeing up the road for non-adrenaline addicts that aren't emotional twelve-year olds)

Expect a Civil Lawsuit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though the app isn't responsible for a death, you can expect civil lawsuits from the families of the deceased. This app promotes the dangerous behavior that got them, or someone else, killed.

That said, I wrote a similar app for my phone. I don't sell it and I only show my results to people I know.

Re:Ok on the track maybe

[Lumpy]

Agreed, anyone riding fast on public streets is a complete moron. Unknown road surface, public roads are also nasty dirty with sand, dirt, and other things that makes them dangerous as hell at speed. Not to mention the people in cars and trucks who can barely drive.

But then the dummies I see lane splitting at 120 are not the ones wearing full gear but are the morons with flip flops, t shirt and shorts.

Re:Finally!

[Lumpy]

Too bad you haven't been looking for it. There have been apps like this that give you a lot of the same info on iPhone for years. I have been running dynalicious on my phone since the iphone 3. no it does not do curve information, but if you cant feel that you botched the curve you have no right to be racing. the sensors in your phone are not as accurate as t he ones used by F1. so you will not get usable data if you dont already race and hit a Platteau on your lap times.

Two wheels

[rossdee]

All you have to do is hit a patch of gravel in the middle of a corner, or wet lane markings or something spilled on the road...Even small animals can be a problem

Theres only a small patch of rubber that is keeping you from hitting the road at high speed

Been there done that have the scars...

Re:Michael Shuhmacher

[Anonymous Coward]

is the one of the few exceptions

he always races with a speedometer

probably does not work

[Anonymous Coward]

The one thing about good race-car drivers is that they know when and for how long they can exceed the cornering limits in their vehicle. For some corners, sliding a little through the corner is faster than staying within traction limits. Google recently time-trialed a drive-by-computer vehicle against a human-driven one; the human driver was able to out-perform the automated one.

This software at best will identify when the bike is not being taken to the limits of traction, the best racers know when the limits can be exceeded.

BTW, since I am human, I must be biased.

Re:probably does not work

[Anonymous Coward]

It's early days for the machines. Give them time and data and they'll leave you in the dust 90% of the time.

sponsorship's

[NikeHerc]

From TFS: "With sponsorship's so hard to find and I need another way to survive."

If I were you, I wouldn't consider teaching English.

Re:sponsorship's

[fafaforza]

If I were you, I'd make sure my nose hair was trimmed properly. Don't want to have people seeing directly into your upturned nostrils being disgusted by the sight.

Re:sponsorship's

[PPH]

But there are some openings for Slashdot editors.

Re:sponsorship's

[mcgrew]

If I were you, I wouldn't consider teaching English.

You have to realize that 96% of people are aliterate, 1% illiterate, and only 3% actually read. When someone says "With sponsorship's so hard to find" you can be pretty sure they never graduated high school and can be certain they never went to college.

Re:sponsorship's

[Anonymous Coward]

When someone says "With sponsorships so hard to find" you can be pretty sure that sponsorships are hard to find. I doubt you can tell whether they meant an apostrophe to be in a certain position when someone wrote it down.

As for the rest, by far the worst people I've ever come across in terms of making such mistakes were lawyers, and I'm pretty sure they graduated from both high school and college.

Re:New evidence for speeding violations... coming

[langelgjm]

Actually, I often turn on My Tracks to log my motorcycle rides in the hope that, if I am pulled over, the GPS evidence could conceivably help my case. Something like, "Your honor, the only reason I exceeded the posted speed limit at that time was to pass a car that was driving erratically," and then show your GPS records to offer some evidence in your support.

Obviously there's no obligation on the part of the judge to take your evidence seriously, but in traffic court I doubt it could hurt. And if it doesn't help my case, I don't have to bring it up.

Re:New evidence for speeding violations... coming

[Anonymous Coward]

I like to drive, and fairly regularly drive faster than the posted limit where road and conditions allow it safely, but I've had family members serious injured by seriously bad drivers who have escaped prosecution due to lack of evidence.

What I would like is if all vehicles were fitted with a black box that kept a buffer of the last 5 minutes telemetry (even up to dash cam/interior cameras). Then if you're in a crash or hit a pedestrian, saves it to some write-once memory that the insurance company/police can take a copy of. That way we could completely end the stupidity of arbitrary speed limit enforcement, not have to worry about pervasive surveillance, AND come down very hard on anyone who causes accidents by driving like a moron, regardless of what speed they were doing.

Re:Finally!

[fafaforza]

You do realize that this app was developed for people riding on closed circuits, right?

The type of rider you describe already has a way to gauge their riding. And that's with chicken strips and top speed. They don't need an app to make them ride recklessly.

Re:Ok on the track maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed, there are definitely idiots in cars and trucks that can barely drive. but its also not exactly there fault when they nearly hit or completely hit a motorcycle driver who is buzzing by at 120 either. they could easily have checked all of their mirrors and blind spots and saw nothing, and start moving over a lane without ever seeing the motorcycle, rightly so. i feel extremely horrible for responsible motorcycle drivers who and up in an accident caused by some other idiot who doesn't like to use blinkers or check their mirrors and blind spots. but i have no sympathy for motorcycle drivers who have no respect for the road.

Re:Ok on the track maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, been riding since 87 (not racing though) as has wife. We have Gpz900r, XJR1300, T509 Speed Triple, GS500E and a GS125 between us (1st 2 mine other 3 hers) and I can see no reason why this wou;ld be useful for a road rider and would I believe definately be illegal in France. Can you imagine Mad sunday on the island full of people who have looked at the data for the production TT for example

hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

i'll wait for the google goggles version

Few problems

[Ryn]

These apps pop up every once in a while. Unless your phone GPS is really accurate, you run into: - Accuracy problems on your raceline using inaccucate GPS. These require an external GPS unit - I don't give a damn about my "lean angle" - I do care about accurate tracking of throttle and brake sensors which this app lacks The last point is really what the expensive units like GPX Pro deliver: you can overlay your brake/throttle zones on the GPS data of the track, and replay your laps, looking for places to improve (brake later/deeper) Not to mention that crashing with a phone on your bike makes for a more expensive crash.

Re: No need to lie

[LanceUppercut]

While this does bear certain similarities with Strava, there's no need to inject false information about the cyclist's death. The cyclist in question did not "break the laws of the road" and was not "killed in traffic". He died in a single-bicycle accident after losing control on a descent. Basically, he fell and got injured pretty badly.

Re:AND BEST OF ALL BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't use the head. The rest is up for grabs.

Re: No need to lie

[sunderland56]

The cyclist in question did not "break the laws of the road" and was not "killed in traffic".

From ABC News:

The speed limit on the road is 30 mph, and Flint was clocked going over 40 mph down the hill. He had to brake suddenly in front of a car, causing his bike to flip over, fatally injuring him.

Re: No need to lie

[nloop]

He exceeded the posted speed limit by 10 mph then braked to avoid an oncoming car when he lost control. So yes, he both "broke the laws of the road" and was "killed in traffic."

http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadrights/2012/08/13/suing-strava/

Re:New evidence for speeding violations... coming

[Anonymous Coward]

Your honor, the only reason I exceeded the posted speed limit at that time was to pass a car that was driving erratically,

Does that excuse actually fly? I would expect the response would have been, "You could have slowed down to put some distance between you, or if you were really concerned about being near them, pull over and wait 5 minutes."

This is why ...

[PPH]

... I have bull bars on the front of my truck. They keep the crazy bikers/cyclists from damaging my radiator or flipping up into my windshield.

Re:This is why ...

[arisvega]

... I have bull bars on the front of my truck. They keep the crazy bikers/cyclists from damaging my radiator ..

Let me guess: you tried lasers and got sued?

Re:This is why ...

[SleazyRidr]

Wait a second, if you're hitting them with the /front/ of your car, how do you then justify that it's the biker who's crazy, or do you look for the crazies so you can run them down.

Re:This is why ...

[PPH]

Motorcycle riders usually dump their bikes in a curve, which results in the sliding across the centerline and getting hit head-on.

With bicycles, its the Idaho Stop.

Re:Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you really didn't read more than the first few words of the post you replied to did you?

Riding One's self.

[arisvega]

developing it with an Italian guy who also likes to ride himself

When I can overcome the topological inconveniences, I ride myself quite often myself.

Re:AND BEST OF ALL BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR !!

[Anonymous Coward]

The damage that happens in most motor cycle accidents means they aren't even useful for that.

Nope. From https://www.msu.edu/~telder/donorcycles_current.pdf:

"Motorcycle fatalities are not only our No. 1 source of organs, they are also the highest-quality source of organs, because donors are usually young, healthy people with no other traumatic injuries to the body, except to the head"

Plenty of other stuff on the web contradicting your ridiculous claim - if you just care to look.

Comments from a motorcycle racer

[Burning1]

I am actually a motorcycle racer. First thing: Apps like this have been around for years, and hardware to accomplish the same thing has been around for even longer. This appears to be more or less a slashvertisment.

To address a couple of points above: I don't really see apps like this being a safety issue. Very few street riders use data-loggers or lap timers. While lap timers may encourage risk taking, data loggers almost certainly wont. The use to us for data-loggers is to establish strategy, and analyze riding technique. It's useful as a teaching tool to identify bad riding habits (mid-line corrections, over-braking, etc.) It's great for comparing two different approaches to a corner to identify which is faster. Data loggers are very useful on a closed circuit where you can easily take the same corner a dozen times over a two hour period. Few street riders will pay that much attention to a single corner*, and the data is rarely useful because of changing road conditions.

The additional weight of a smart-phone or full data logging system is pretty much irrelevant at most levels of racing. The value of the data obtained far exceeds the cost of the weight. Many of us also mount cameras (Go Pro, Countour, etc.) which also add aerodynamic drag and weight.

Using a datalogger in traffic is pointless. The traffic it's self adds too many variables to make the data meaningful.

Finally, no one uses a data logger to 'turn sharper.' On a motorcycle, turning radius is usually limited by rider confidence first, and cornering clearance second. It can be increased with training and proper technique. If there was an app that said "you could probably lean further" then yes, such an app would be dangerous. Modern bikes however, already come with such a feature (peg feelers.)

* On a given weekend, you'll find me walking around any track I ride, looking at surface irregularities, camber angle, analyzing lines, etc. We pay huge attention to each corner.

Great tool for cops on Mulholland

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a great tool for cops on any popular illegal street course. No chasing. Just set up a roadblock at the bottom. "We observed you going very fast. That's probably cause. Give us your phone".

Bullshit Slashvertisement.

[Anonymous Coward]

Lean angle is largely a function of speed, which is controlled by throttle and clutch positions, and braking force (if any,) applied to each tire, as impacted by aerodynamic drag and coefficients of rolling and sliding friction, plus internal friction of bike parts, such as engine braking effect, and the fact that the axles aren't 100% efficient despite lubrication.

An "app" that tells you brake slightly less/increase throttle/decrease tension on the clutch lever isn't going to provide any help to riders that they can't get from a simple observation that they either ARE, or ARE NOT dragging a foot peg.

If you're not dragging the peg, and your tires are in good shape on clean, dry pavement, generally you could be going faster/leaning further over.

If you ARE dragging the peg, you are within margin-of-error of your maximum safe amount of lean/top speed for the curve. If you've trained in basic safe motorcycling, you know the optimum path in a curve, (out in out, resulting in a path that gives you the closest thing to a straight line without straying from your lane, or if you can legally and safely change lanes in the curve, LANES...) so you have optimum path and best speed already, without this "app".

If you lean much PAST the point where you're dragging a peg, you'll reach the point where some part of your bike, i.e., a tailpipe or some part of the frame hits the ground. When this happens, the result is generally a more or less instantaneous low-side fall, after which you're no longer looking at the same physics scenario, and now you've got metal sliding along pavement at speed, and you sliding along behind it, probably developing a helluva road rash, depending on what protective equipment you're wearing, and whether you walk it off, go to the hospital, or to a morgue as a result depends mostly on external factors, such as if anyone else was following you in the curve, how fast you were going, etc.

Incidentally, you also don't generally want to apply your brakes in a curve anyway, unless you actually WANT to dump your bike.

So this "app" is probably largely useless, inasmuch as if you're even vaguely competent to ride, you should already know anything it could tell you.

In the years I've been riding, I make it a point not to drag pegs, because I admit I have trouble trusting my tires, or more to the point, the road to be THAT free of dust and gravel, or other things that could cause slippage. But then, everyone rides in accordance with what he or she feels comfortable accepting in terms of risk, so... next story, please.

Re:New evidence for speeding violations... coming

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on the situation. If there is a car just to my rear that is making me nervous, slowing down brings me closer to them. Dropping speed to allow someone to pass you can put you at risk as well, depending on the surrounding traffic conditions.

Great for shopping

[Anonymous Coward]

This technology will greatly ease grocery shopping trips at the nightly streets of Moscow and those Italian towns and cities. Few milliseconds is all it takes.

Re:Ok on the track maybe

[yurtinus]

...I loved my GS500. Though I do agree that this app has fairly limited practical application, I still think it'd be fun to see some of the data - more as a curiosity than anything else.

lol

[Anonymous Coward]

"developing it with an Italian guy who also likes to ride himself" see this is why I don't go to nascar!

Sponsorship is even harder to get now.....

[Andhesaidtome]

With sponsorship's so hard to find and I need another way to survive.

Even harder to find when you're not riding.... Ant West 30 day ban for doping

Harder, better, faster, stronger...

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Daft Punk please pick up the white courtesy phone...

Re:New evidence for speeding violations... coming

[strikethree]

As long as the data is not being uploaded, you have control over how long it is kept and can edit it to remove personally identifying information.