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Buckyballs Throws In the Towel

RenderSeven writes "As previously reported the immensely popular Buckyballs office toys have been targeted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Last week Maxfield and Oberton, the maker of Buckyballs gave up the battle and announced they would discontinue sales and close. However, being driven out of business is not enough for R Buckminster Fuller's estate, who has filed yet another lawsuit that they own all rights to the name "buckyballs" despite widespread use of the term. If you still haven't bought your own yet, a few thousand sets in stock are still available."

60 of 383 comments (clear)

  1. I have buckyballs! by biojayc · · Score: 5, Funny

    The company I work for bought everyone on our team a set. Probably worst investment ever. Productivity has definitely suffered. But look at my cool artistic design!

  2. Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    ... on eBay, and you will find multiple vendors selling exactly the same thing, but not called buckyballs. They still exist - just not under that stupid name.

    1. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is what they are, seriously?

      Having never heard of Buckyballs, I had to check the site out. Turns out that $30-$40 per set won't exactly break the budget, but you can assemble a similar kit from eBay for a LOT less (including shipping).

    2. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by fuzzybunny · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.magnet-shop.net/

      German outfit, huge range of Neodymium magnets, spherical, cylindrical, banana-shaped, what-have-you.

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    3. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by Black+Cardinal · · Score: 2

      Nice site, but the magnets seem to be even more expensive. Maybe I didn't find the right thing, but to buy 216 3.0mm neodymium spheres (equivalent to one package of "buckyballs") would cost EUR 50 vs USD 35 for the "buckyballs"

    4. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by fnj · · Score: 2

      Use just a tiny bit of intelligence. Do you seriously think no one can sell spherical magnets? It's the NAME that is protected; that's all.

      I will readily admit that ebay's search function sucks donkey balls. Generally you do get better results just using google to search ebay for stuff. Or another good search engine, but google was the first one that worked and I still like them. IMO google search was the most innovative and critically useful tool to be invented for the web since the latter's creation.

    5. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by RenderSeven · · Score: 2

      Yes but you wont get the free "Save Our Balls" t-shirt.

    6. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by firex726 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well I think it's the coating.
      the magnets are rather brittle and wont hold up well to being banged together from it's own magnetic field, so they are coated.

      Cheap ones use cheap coatings that flake off easily, and expose the magnet underneath and it ends up breaking.

    7. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by Artraze · · Score: 2, Informative

      https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2012/09/04/2012-21608/safety-standard-for-magnet-sets
      "Under the proposal, if a magnet set contains a magnet that fits within the CPSC's small parts cylinder, magnets from that set would be required to have a flux index of 50 or less, or they would be prohibited."

      So, yes, I do think that no one can sell spherical magnets. (Or won't be allowed to, once this has passed.)

      Technically, the proposal as is only applies to sets marketed by the manufacturer primarily as a manipulative or construction desk toy for general entertainment, and they are seeking comment on what to do about magnets included in science/craft/hobby kits or sold individually. So as it stands this technically wouldn't prohibit them from being sold as industrial parts or maybe even science kits. However, mind that government 'suggestion' is all powerful... See how amazon delisted them, and ebay said they would, before this policy is even finalized. You may technically be allowed to sell these in some context, but you'll need a lot of luck to actually do so.

    8. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by Petron · · Score: 2

      The ban isn't on buckyballs specifically, it is on all similar products. Zen Magnets (a competitor) also under the ban, their last update:
      "CPSC Selects nuclear option. Magnet spheres may soon be harder to acquire than ammunition in the US.
      [Update 11/2] The magnet fight is not looking good."

      --
      if (it != oneThing) it = another;
    9. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by macraig · · Score: 2

      I seem to recall similar regulatory stupidities regarding chemistry science kits in the last decade? Both are examples of think-of-the-children regulation stretched beyond reasonable into the realm of authoritarianism for the sake of itself.

    10. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by macraig · · Score: 2

      Congratulations on having YAKJR (yet another knee-jerk reaction). Yes, it IS mindless regulation to ban it outright. What wouldn't be mindless is to place reasonable restrictions on its sale and use such that it can still be obtained by people for use in environments where children cannot be endangered by it.

    11. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually kills kids?
      So how many kids were actually killed?
      Actually ZERO.

    12. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you have a product that actually kills kids, it's not mindless regulation to ban it.

      What's next? Kitchen knives have killed enough kids over the years...guess we need to ban those.

      Seriously, a few accidents happen....parents that don't keep things dangerous out of the reach of kids, or stupid kids putting anything in their mouth and swallowing it?

      I think that is more Darwin's Law at work....should ban things like that that MOST adults can safely enjoy....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by uncqual · · Score: 2

      Cars, buses, trains, bicycles, and airplanes all kill kids. Ban them all. Won't someone think of the children?

      The number of reported serious injuries/deaths from these magnets is tiny compared to the above sources of serious injury and death..

      One of the injuries was to a pre-teen or teenage kid who was playing with them and swallowed them. Now, wouldn't you think a kid should go to their parent and say "hey, I accidentally swallowed a couple magnets" and that the parent would say "hmm... probably should take you in to the doctor". If the doctor then says "oh, nothing to worry about", then we have a problem (and the doctor should be sued/banned/sanctioned, not the seller/manufacturer of the magnets).

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    14. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by evil_aaronm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My nephew, when he was small, pulled a pot of boiling water off the stove, causing it to spill all over him, and he suffered third-degree burns over a large portion of his body. He didn't die from it, but should we ban boiling water because kids can be injured by it? Or should we encourage parents to pay more attention to their kids?

    15. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by triffid_98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you have a product that actually kills kids, it's not mindless regulation to ban it

      Um...yes it freaking is. I can think of a great many things it could be fatal to swallow. Even dihydrogen monoxide is fatal in sufficient quantities.

      "Think of the children" has caused so much stupid regulation it should be an automatic fail ala Godwin's law.

    16. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by triffid_98 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not particularly, but I'd like to (for instance) buy a real chemistry set or halfway decent fireworks. Except that I can't. Because...of...this...very... same...argument.

      Also I'm fairly sure flamethrowers are legal. They even have practical applications that don't involve setting people on fire. People use them for weed control in rocky soil.

    17. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2

      When you have a product that actually kills kids, it's not mindless regulation to ban it.

      Here's a list of some products that I have within reach of my desk right now that have actually killed kids:

      • button batteries
      • plastic bags
      • bottled water
      • chairs
      • phone cord

      The fact of the matter is that these magnets really aren't any more dangerous than any number of common household items. If you're that frightened of them, keep them out of your own house. Banning them is utterly ridiculous.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    18. Re:Search for spherical neodymium magnets... by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2

      Hey, wanna buy a flamethrower?

      As it happens, flamethrowers may be legally owned in most parts of the US.

      Obviously somebody missed the "if it would be possible for a child to injure themselves with something, then it must be banned!" memo.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  3. More mindless federal regulation by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dammit, freedom isn't free. And if the price of my freedom to be entertained by buckyballs is measured in the lives of toddlers, so be it. And now, I think I'll go outside for a nice game of Jarts. Who wants to be goalie?

    1. Re:More mindless federal regulation by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not just toddlers, we also had natural selection at work in pre-teens. Now how are we going to thin the herd? Start handing out guns?

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    2. Re:More mindless federal regulation by D'Sphitz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      accidental deaths of children due to handguns in the US: ~500 per year
      accidental deaths of children choking on balloons: ~1000 per year
      accidental deaths of children by magnetic desk toys: 0
      Greatest Country on Earth!

  4. I'll need to stock up by skipkent · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am a baker and normal dragées just don't work the same.

    1. Re:I'll need to stock up by ddxexex · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well I learn a couple of things today because of this post. 1) A dragée is the name for that metallic decorative ball thing they put on cakes. 2) never accept candy from skipkent.

  5. Hard to swallow by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't see how kids can swallow these, not with their guts full of washing machine gel packs.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  6. State gone Mad by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh, look, the State destroying a business and free choice in the first part of the summary and then the State enabling people to harass other people over imaginary property in the second. Thank goodness they're around to keep things civil.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:State gone Mad by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Informative

      They do not market them to children. The products have extensive warnings on them.

    2. Re:State gone Mad by Millennium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem here is how they sell this product. The market this product as a toy for children.

      Actually, they don't.

      If they wrote on the package "MAY CAUSE DEATH" or listed a number of lives and surgeries the product has caused, I don't think anyone would care. Of course they'd go out of business.

      Actually, they do write this, and nobody cares. Unfortunately, rather than treating these injuries as the evidence of child neglect that they are, the feds have taken the approach of banning something that, when used appropriately, is perfectly safe.

    3. Re:State gone Mad by g0del · · Score: 2

      That's completely untrue. They don't market them to children, and have prominent warnings all over the packaging saying to keep them away from children and that swallowing them can cause death. I counted no less than 5 copies of that warning in the last package of them I opened. One of the warnings was on a sticker holding the package closed - you can't even open them without seeing a large warning that they can kill you. There's also a warning on the little plastic box they give you to store them in.

      The lawsuit is not about informing consumers because I honestly can't think of any more the company can do to warn people Cigarettes have fewer warning labels than buckyballs. The lawsuit is trying to prevent any sale of the product at all, which is stupid.

    4. Re:State gone Mad by David+Chappell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, they do write this, and nobody cares. Unfortunately, rather than treating these injuries as the evidence of child neglect that they are, the feds have taken the approach of banning something that, when used appropriately, is perfectly safe.

      The problem is that they are a harmless-looking toy, but the only safe way to use them is to make sure no small children are present, take them out and play with them, then count them to make sure none have been lost, and lock them up. If someone loses two of them, then children are in grave danger.

      As for child neglect, if you were visiting someone with your small child and a teenager was playing with a bunch of magnets, would you immediately think "those are very dangerous, I must keep my child on my lap so that he doesn't pick one of those up"? Of course not. Since you have not seen the package, you have no way of knowing that these particular magnets are much more dangerous than those which you played with as a child.

      This does not mean that everything sold has to be safe for children. Guns, knives, fireworks, blowtorches, and chainsaws are dangerous by the very nature of what they are intended to do. Even small children immediately understand their capacity to destroy things. The CPSC does not ban chainsaws because they cut or blowtorches because they burn. But it does ban toys when they tend to cause harm in totaly unexpected ways.

    5. Re:State gone Mad by Millennium · · Score: 2

      The problem is that they are a harmless-looking toy, but the only safe way to use them is to make sure no small children are present, take them out and play with them, then count them to make sure none have been lost, and lock them up. If someone loses two of them, then children are in grave danger.

      This is actually much easier than it sounds. Thanks to the design of the package, one need not even count them: just rebuild the standard 6x6x6 cube that the balls came packaged in. It's one of the simplest structures to make, takes no more than about thirty seconds, and will instantly tell you exactly how many are missing, if any are.

      As for child neglect, if you were visiting someone with your small child and a teenager was playing with a bunch of magnets, would you immediately think "those are very dangerous, I must keep my child on my lap so that he doesn't pick one of those up"? Of course not.

      No. However, whether or not there was a teenager with magnets, I would keep an eye on the kid, as is standard and reasonable parental responsibility.

      Since you have not seen the package, you have no way of knowing that these particular magnets are much more dangerous than those which you played with as a child.

      And, as stated above, this wouldn't actually make a difference. When the kid starts to go for something, I'd look closer and, seeing an easily-ingested small shiny object, I'd take it away, not caring -or perhaps even knowing- that it was magnetic. Again, standard and reasonable parental responsibility.

    6. Re:State gone Mad by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where are these rules, and lawsuits, for Legos? Just as small. More prevelant. more pieces to "kill" the poor children.

      Your apparent (and probably typical) ignorance of the difference between a piece of plastic and a high-powered magnet demonstrates the exact reason that the government felt compelled to act in this case.

    7. Re:State gone Mad by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is as bad as when Big Government sinisterly destroyed the hardworking Americans employed in the Asbestos industries.

      Yeah! Who cares that in one case you could be harmed just by being in the same room with the microscopic deadly terror and wouldn't know it was happening, and the other you have to actually decide to deliberately eat more than one of the macroscopic fiendish killers? Yeah! That makes no difference.

    8. Re:State gone Mad by Millennium · · Score: 3, Informative

      I didn't say 100% of the time, though we are talking about babies and toddlers here, and they do require considerably more supervision than older children. If the kid's in an environment with things he's not ready to handle -say, small shiny objects- then you watch, or else you don't bring him into that environment. This is what it means to have a kid.

  7. Zenmagnets has cheaper, better magnets... by quietwalker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So if you want rare earth magnets before they're officially banned, get them from zenmagnets.com. Cheaper and higher quality. Also, they're not jerks like the buckyballs guys are.

    Fun video here comparing the two http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Tka4NUmUo

    I know it looks like an advertisement posting, but as someone who owns a crudload of rare earth magnets, zenmagnets seem to me to be the best. I keep a mandala set on my desk at work for downtimes, and I have a manager who keeps trying to make the perfect soccer ball when I'm not looking.

    - and if you get the colored ones, just beware - the color tends to come off very easily if you're rough at all with them. You've been warned.

    1. Re:Zenmagnets has cheaper, better magnets... by RenderSeven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      they're not jerks like the buckyballs guys are.

      In what way are they jerks? They seem a little peeved at the CPSC but I would be too. Also note that the CPSC has targeted Zen Magnets as well: Zen Magnets was the first company to receive an administrative complaint from the Consumer Product Safety Commission without a record of injuries.

    2. Re:Zenmagnets has cheaper, better magnets... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I take it you didn't watch the video which included correspondence between zen magnets and buckyballs? The relevant part as to why they're jerks is in the first few minutes...

  8. See by Entropy98 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Regulations work! If it wasn't for these bureaucrats we'd all be dead from lead poisoning, asbestos, and big gulps. Thankfully these unnamed heroes from the government are here to save us from ourselves.

    1. Re:See by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Lead and Asbestos regulations were needed. Those are things that still threaten lives, since the Chinese seem to love to add lead to everything.

      These magnets should be regulated to be sold only to those over 18. Like many other potentially dangerous products.

    2. Re:See by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually 12 year olds are a decent size group that is eating these. They use them to simulate tongue, cheek and labret piercings.

      Limiting it to 18 plus might stop some of those idiot preteens. It would also make it more clear that these products have some level of danger involved.
       

    3. Re:See by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2

      If you're 12 and eating these, I consider that natural selection that's good for the gene pool.

    4. Re:See by LateArthurDent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why the hell can't people take personal responsibility for their mistakes?

      Because they don't.

      They never have, and they never will. No matter how much naive libertarians wish for it.

      It's not naivete. We don't think they will. We just want them to pay the consequences for not doing so, instead of making the rest of us pay.

      If give a bunch of supermagnets to your kids, don't supervise them, don't teach them about the dangers, and then they swallow a couple and die...congratulations: You just paid for being a dumbass with the life of your child. Why do I have to give up my magnets as well?

  9. Protecting the children. by EasyTarget · · Score: 4, Insightful

    magnets.. bad.

    Guns, assault rifles, knives, mace spray, tazers, baseball bats, and realistic 3rd person shooters... good.

    Glad you guys have got your retail priorities straight and are protecting your kids so well.

    --
    "Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
  10. Your Freedom and Rights don't matter when... by SirAstral · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we have to protect another child on behalf of the parents not capable of using good common sense.

    We need to stop making scissors of all kinds, stop the production of any toys that a small child might play with but not marketed to them, and even take kids balls away because someone might get hurt.

    Stupid people doing stupid things... being going on for millenia, and every effort to stop them has failed.

  11. Zen Magnets by The+Rizz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Zen Magnets hasn't yet caved to the CPSC.

  12. Hey Entrepreneurs! by JWW · · Score: 5, Funny

    Still interested in starting a small business in the US?

    Didn't think so....

    Starting a small business in the US today is less like reaching for your dreams and more like Running Man where you get a 30 minute head start before the death lawyers start chasing you...

    1. Re:Hey Entrepreneurs! by BLKMGK · · Score: 2

      Wow I wish I hadn't posted so I could mod this - VERY good point!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    2. Re:Hey Entrepreneurs! by sunderland56 · · Score: 2

      Taking a look around today, there seems to be an awful lot of businesses laying people off after the Obama victory.

      Obama would be president today - and for the next two months - even if Mitt Romney had won. So anyone laying off people today is doing it just to make a political statement, not because anything has actually changed.

  13. How about instead of arbitrarily banning products by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    How about instead of arbitrarily banning products that some obsessed mothers think are somehow more dangerous for their toddlers, mostly because it is new, we just force all packaging to list the number of lives the contents have cost.

    Buckyballs (Killed 20 infants since 1995) For example (I have no idea how many, if any, have died of been seriously injured by BBs).
    Then we can make informed choices and be held responsible if we allow children to kill themselves will objects we know are dangerous. BB are not designed to be given to infants, just like a nail gun is not designed to be given to an infant; That does not mean they should be banned.

    Personally, I love dangerous things and would consider that as good advertising, for those of you with overprotected children well they do no have to buy one.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  14. Warning Label by screwzloos · · Score: 4, Informative

    WARNING
    Keep Away From All Children!
    Do not put in nose or mouth.
    Swallowed magnets can stick to
    intestines causing serious injury or death.
    Seek immediate medical attention if
    magnets are swallowed or inhaled.

    It says right on the little plastic container that this isn't for children. The cardboard retail box gets torn up and thrown away, so I can understand a label on that *possibly* not being enough. The inner plastic cube is pretty explicit too, though.

    There are a handful of stupid people somewhere out there, so bureaucrats close down a business that I like and decide that I can't have something that is of no risk to me or anyone around me. Gotta love this world we live in.

  15. Re:If your #1 product kills children, you fail by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not the fault of the product when parents don't supervise their children and allow them to eat random household objects.

    And I realize its not easy. Parenting is hard. If you're not up for it, don't have kids.

    This is an adult product. It says it on the box. It shouldn't be required to meet child toy standards.

  16. Lies, Lies and More Lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    They do not market them to children. The products have extensive warnings on them.

    Here's the package that was sold at my mall. I see no warnings. In fact if you can read that scribbling on the front in a playful font it says "The amazing magnetic toy you can't put down." Is that how you market to adults?

    Jesus Christ, who's lying to who here? This company seems to not want to properly label their product and just throw their hands up and rage quit when a consumer protection agency makes them!

    1. Re:Lies, Lies and More Lies by sed+quid+in+infernos · · Score: 4, Informative

      They added the warnings the agency asked them to. Do a bit of research before accusing people of lying. For more than two years, the packages have had strong warnings as required by the CPSC.

    2. Re:Lies, Lies and More Lies by Lazar+Dobrescu · · Score: 2

      Here is that same package from another angle:
      http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/cimg0101l.jpg/

      and from slightly above:
      http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/cimg0105s.jpg/

      That same warning is also on the carrying case for the buckyballs and on the manual.

      The full text of it is:
      WARNING
      Keep Away From All Children!
      Do not put in nose of mouth.
      Swallowed magnets can stick to intestines causing serious injury or death.
      Seek immediate medical attention if magnets are swallowed in inhaled.

  17. Re:If your #1 product kills children, you fail by RenderSeven · · Score: 4, Informative
    I will pass that epiphany on to General Motors for you. Buckyball fatalities: 0, auto fatalities: ~40,000 per year.

    Oh, wait, now you say 'I meant injuries not deaths'. OK lets play that one:

    There are approximately 2.2 million Buckyball magnet sets in circulation, and as each set has 216 magnets, there is a grand total of 475.2 million individual magnet pieces. This equals to approximately 1 injury per 100,000 Buckyball sets and less than 1 injury per 21.5 million individual magnet pieces.

    Dogs are statistically over 120 times more dangerous
    Tennis injuries are 1,228 times more dangerous
    Soccer, Cheerleading, poisoning through common household chemicals are all over 1,000 times more dangerous.
    Skateboarding is 890 times more dangerous.
    Pools, cars, kitchen knives, firearms, balloons, snowblowers are all statistically more dangerous than Buckyball magnets.

    That is a LOT of fails by your criteria. Yet where is the CPSC outrage on dogs, racquets, soccer balls, draino, skateboards, pool life jackets, ginsu knifes, and so on?

  18. Re:Fucking magnets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, a North pole loves a South pole, and they spend a night sleeping with each other, then later the Stork Magnet comes along and reverses polarity at just the right moment to drop a new little bundle of joy.

    Please note that many states have legislated against homo-polar relationships. Marriage can never work between North-North and South-South poles.

  19. A Warning is as Good as a Ban by Marc_Hawke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We used to buy Magnetix. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetix

    They were great fun...simple...self assembling, but you could do some fun things. It seemed like a great toy for kids. After we had gathered a sizable collection, we heard about the warning of swallowing the magnets. Coincidentally we also started noticing the magnets falling out of their plastic housings.

    So, we heavily increased the supervision as the kids were playing with them. Made sure to keep everything glued in tight and or disposed of. Basically I guess that means I'm a responsible parent.

    In the end though, we stopped buying them and switch to a toy that was less hazardous. That means the warning effectively became a ban ...for my house...

    I think that's how it should work with pretty much everything.

    --
    --Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
  20. Re:"swallowed magnets can stick to intestines" ? by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2

    If you swallow one, it's fine. If you swallow a second one, it may stick to the first one... but the first one may have gone around the bend in the intestine first. The pressure from the magnets causes blood to be forced out of the tissues compressed between them, you get a dead spot, then a punctured intestine, which causes peritonitis, a potentially fatal condition.