Slashdot Mirror
Anonymous Attacks Israeli Websites In Response To IDF Operation In Gaza
An anonymous reader writes "On Thursday, Anonymous reported that it took down close to 40 Israeli government and security establishment websites, although the single website that they presented as having been attacked belonged to a security and cleaning services company. The report came after Likud MK Danny Danon announced earlier in the week that his website had been taken down by a group calling itself TeaM KuWaiT HaCkErS. Danon's website had been hosting an online petition calling for the Israeli government to cut off the supply of electricity going from Israel to Gaza. " A report at Russia Today puts the number at "hundreds" of sites, instead.
Slashdot seems to love reporting this recurring story, I guess because you can write it with mad-libs...
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
You notice that the rocket attacks on Israel increased as the chances of Assad winning in Syria decreased. Almost like someone wanted to get Syria off the front page.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
http://anonnews.org/press/item/1885/
It's funny how your post and your sig contradict each other. /Got no stick in this fire.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Well then, I suggest we take this up with Anonymous' executive committee on foreign relations.
Have gnu, will travel.
I don't think it's falsified...I think the issue is that Anonymous is not a singular, totally cohesive group. I absolutely think there are parts of Anonymous who are that reckless that they'd poke at Israel over this. For their sake, I hope they don't accomplish much; Israel has exactly *no* sense of humor when it comes to their own national security. There comes a time when a cyber action can provoke a kinetic response, and the Israelis won't be hampered by the need for search warrants, due process, etc.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Anonymous are a bunch of losers. They just want to revel in the limelight and taking the Palestinian side against Israel happens to be cool among leftists, anarchists, and other spoiled children with too much time and money and not enough wisdom.
The best approach to anonymous is to ignore them. If they don't get the attention they seek, they'll go back to wanking off to online porn in their moms' basements.
Mossad will probably convince them that it's not a good idea. Mossad is known for not "playing nice" when anything or anyone actually threatens Israel.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
You are clueless. Hamas is the governing party in the Gaza Strip not the West Bank. What Hamas does in the Gaza Strip has no effect on the status of Jerusalem.
And as far as UN support, it has been fairly unanimous for condemning Israel. Israel is an apartheid state with separate roads for Palestinians, forced evictions and demolitions of Palestinians houses by settlers, non-statehood for residents, restrictions on international travel, and crimes against Palestinians that aren't prosecuted (like the Price Tag attacks).
The more you learn about the Palestinian limbo, the more you realize that they are remarkably peaceful despite the conditions they are in. When you are locked in a massive open air prison and have no potential to escape whatsoever for a crime you never committed, you might think lobbing a couple of rockets over the walls would be a good idea too.
I will give you a few simple ways to know whether your point on view on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is incorrect:
I'll illustrate with an example:
I don't know how to solve the problem in the region, but it's a problem that was deliberately created by creating the nation of Israel smack dab in the middle of everyone that hated them and everyone that they hated.
Deliberately by whom? Also, the great opposition to the Zionist movement started a (relatively) long time after Jews started immigrating to (then) Palestine.
It's past time to do something.
Right. Because, obviously, there is a solution. You can't think of one, but there must be something that can be done that is better than what is currently being done, right? I mean, none of the leaders could think of anything, and not one "expert" on the subject offers anything that has not been tried before and failed, but drinkypoo says that something can be done, so it must be true.
It's too late to turn back the clock, which is unfortunate, because not doing it in the first place would clearly have been the best solution.
Really? My mother's mother, and her brother and sisters, that left Germany between 1930 and 1936, beg to differ.
Israel's blockade of the strip is probably illegal,
International law seems to disagree with you on that point.
and the only people who can stop them won't because they have too much to gain by maintaining the status quo. Keeping that region in a condition of endless war keeps all of those people busy.
The only people I can think of who can stop this without causing even more bloodshed are Hamas leadership (proof: The west bank's leaders decided to mind their own business, and are experiencing both more freedom and more economic prosperity, despite the fact that, unlike the Gaza strip, Israel still occupies that region). While I suspect that the motives you claim for why they do that are, more or less, correct, I somehow doubt that's who you meant.
Shachar
Israel is only defending themselves following a massive rocket bombardment.
Ok let's pretend when two sides are firing rockets at each other continuously for many years, that the much larger, richer and better armed side can be referred to as 'defending itself'.
Given that assumption, explain how air strikes and shelling are intended to resolve the situation.
The actual list of targets was pastebinned:
http://pastebin.com/Ms4nJSZx
If it's not illegal to do so, in their native countries, some might wish to join the good guys.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Exactly! They're a bunch of hot-headed, murderous asshole terrorists who DO NOT want peace ever and Anonymous is siding with them? What a bunch of bullshit.
Yeah, and I wish Israel would end its blockade, give the Palestinians a right to statehood, evacuate the settlements, and respect Palestinian borders so the Palestinians didn't have to fight for their own self-determination. While Israel continues its policies, Palestine will continue to be a shithole of poverty with people who can't legitimately complain to anyone because they don't have a state and the UN doesn't recognize them. Israel reaps what it sows.
we're waiting, but its still naptime.
as soon as he wakes up and has his milk, he'll call us back.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I wouldn't mind joining the "good guys". Unfortunately, there aren't any "good guys" over there. The smart ones have moved on, to places such as Canada, or the United States, and have made lives for themselves. The good ones are dead. (only the good die young) All that's left on either side are the dumb evil bastards.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
...taking the Palestinian side against Israel happens to be cool among leftists, anarchists, and other spoiled children with too much time and money and not enough wisdom.
And taking Israel's side is a wiser choice because ....?
Isn't Israel the ones who are stealing land and building "settlements" on that land? And where there is a chance for peace, isn't it the "Settlers" who start something because they don't want to give up the land they stole? Actually, it was the IDF who steals it under the guise of "security".
See, this is the way I see it: you have two groups of people who want the same piece of land. One group did a marvelous job of playing off World powers and sucked them into what basically amounts to a pathetic, self righteous, piss-ant little local conflict.
We in the West should let these pathetic little people kill one another off and we should keep our noses out of it.
Lastly, anyone who thinks Israel is some sort of innocent victim here is a moron. If Israel really wanted peace, all they have to do is pull those squat...Settlers out, move the borders back to where they were in 1967, and give the Palestinians their own state.
And all the bullshit being said about Israel's destruction is just that bullshit. That's just rhetoric from some folks who have no skin in this conflict - like Iran - who want to just stir shit up and and in the process give Israel more power in the propaganda battle.
Yes. You've been their and spoken to people - on both sides.
You HAVE to ask yourself this: "From what source do I get my information, and how many levels of mediation are between me and the original source".
You will find that your experience and understanding are built upon layers of unproven trust.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I'm sorry. There is a very clear villain and I am not wrong. The villain is extremist religionists on ALL sides who (to paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, who made this argument far better than I ever could) poison the dialogue with their absolutist demands which they back up using the force of their chosen celestial sky wizard and his holy books.
The vast vast vast majority of people on both sides favor a two state solution. the US wants this too, as does virtually everybody else. its the obvious answer. why dosen't it happen?
because of people who think that whose first accountability is to some god, not their fellow man.
they are the villians in this drama. no ands, ifs, or buts.
I'm sure that Assad attacking Israel would work out brilliantly. Assad's government has been unable to put down (an accurate description, I'd say) a civil war that has been raging for over 18 months now, so you are suggesting he divert military resources from trying to do that to open a second front against Israel? Avoiding some rather obvious parallels about second fronts, that didn't work out too well for Syria the last time they tried it, and that was with the assistance of Egypt (then the UAR) and Jordan. Not to mention the obvious excuse it would give some nations just itching to get much more overtly involved in Syria's internal struggles the "justification" they need to do so, despite the risk of igniting the whole of the Middle East when Iran et al inevitably get involved as well.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Maybe illegal - but a lot of crazy shit becomes legal in a warzone.
Odd though, that Hamas suddenly has a lot of longer-ranged missiles, after those flotillas were allowed through.
If I were an Israeli naval officer, those flotillas would have been sunk, and no survivors picked up. Israelis are pretty soft hearted sometiems, like when world opinion is against them.
I say, "Screw world opinion, we've got a war going on here!"
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Nice. Now let's 'pretend' that in a given period of years, there is relative peace with no rockets fired, then one side fires indiscriminately into the other. Let's call them the aggressors. Then the non-aggressors fire superior (and better-targeted) rockets into strategic locations only. But you're right, the moral high ground rests solely with the aggressors.
The British and the Americans did not forcibly set up a new Israel, the Israelis did that all by themselves. What really cemented their country was beating 5 Arab armies. After that, there was no stopping them. And Truman had to be dragged into supporting an Israel in the U.N. Also, Russia continued their anti-Jewish policies and many Jews left Russia for Israel. And they were well-educated Jews, that made for a much stronger Israel.
After the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was made a Gruppen-Fuhrer in Hilter's Reich, the Arabs and Palestinians could kiss any support for their side goodbye.
My solution is pretty simple. Tell me how wrong it is:
Everyone in the frigging world just shuts up, sits down, and watches. Let the two antagonists go at each other. We don't supply arms, we don't supply medical supplies, we don't supply intelligence, we don't supply ANYTHING. We all just shut the fuck up, and watch.
Winner takes all. Or, the winner dictates terms to the loser, which would probably be the same thing.
Massive casualties? Sure - but the massive casualties will total less than another century or two of intermittent warfare. Let them get the business of establishing ownership over with now!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Quoted as if that's a terribly hawkish thing to say?
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
^ Search that text for both "jew" and "zion" just to get you started. Here's just a random snippet -- if you think I'm quoting out of context, well... feel free to find me something better, that explains stuff like this away :/
The way I read that:
The Jews kill women and children, so let's just fire rockets at Isreal without discrimination. Let's attack school buses even! It's just Jews, it's not bad when you do it to *them*. Some gibberish about the greedy, honourless Jew, then kinda implying they're murderers even when they don't murder, (so they can be murdered in response to that, I guess).
The solution: Let's be fascists ya'll. One for all, and all against the Jews.
Was that being polemic? Or am I just paying attention? You tell me. One thing is sure, that Charter surely obsesses about Islam, Zionism and Jews. So if they're an anti-semitic terrorist organization, doesn't seem crushing them like, uhh, the best alternative? What would you do instead, talk to them real nice?
None of this justifies actions by Israel that aren't okay; I'm just saying, wtf. If you're gonna pretend that other bunch of backwards assholes are just fine, then you have just as big a problem.
"Yes. You've been their and spoken to people - on both sides."
Yes, I have. You are being sarcastic, of course. You assume that I've never seen any of the mid-east. You assume that I get all my information from one or another biased big-media news source. But, I HAVE been over there. Beruit City was the most exciting and/or dangerous place that I have ever seen, with multiple armies and armed groups maneuvering in the countryside, as well as in the city. I was there before the Marines arrived to safeguard the remainder of the civilians.
Don't assume anything, my friend.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
When did 'Palestine' exist as an independent state? They are Jordanians.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
So your fine with me routinely sending 30/06 rounds through your house so long as I don't hit many members of your family?
What? You'd do something about it? Hypocrite.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
(laughing at you)
oh wait, you are serious? the israelis just have to WISH for peace?
those warmongers! how dare they stand in the way of those peaceful arabs.
they should do as the arabs say and just lie down and be killed. peacefully
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Didn't Israel assassinate Palestinian leader just before a ceasefire was about to be brokered...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/israels-shortsighted-assassination.html?_r=0
The Pals gained a lot of worldwide sympathy with those moronic flotillas. And, here they squander much of that sympathy by attacking Israel in some hopeless gamble.
No they don't. The entire islamic world has larger levels of anti-Semitism than Germany had in the 1930s (not that other kinds of racism are far behind), and the issue is simple : the more attention hamas captures, the more this anti-Semitism will play in politics in other muslim countries.
The more attention hamas grabs, using any and all means, including their favorite tactic of getting their neighbours' children killed, the more successful they're likely to become.
Their stated purpose is to bring back traditional islamic values, and they explicitly mention including eternal war (one translation "jihad") with, well, with everyone else. Another stated purpose of Hamas is to kill every Jew in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_antisemitism#Twentieth_century
Just three examples which took me like 5 seconds to find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_pogrom_of_April_1920
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
So yeah. Nice try but fuck you.
Funny how started with how both sides are to blame and it's complicated, but then at the end suddenly simple solution springs up - things would be better only if the villains from Hamas stopped whatever they do.
Pardon me, but if West Bank is proof anything, it's that "minding own business" will not work for Palestinians. They put down their guns and officially accepted state of Israel and what they got in return was nothing. Israel is still taking more and more Palestinian land, the Israeli settlers are doing whatever they want without impunity and with cover from Israel, the Palestinian "government" is hapless appendage of Israel and Israelis are calling all the shots, and so on.
It's quite vomituous to put the word "freedom" in the same sentence as West Bank, one would hope that American could spot the difference.
The vast vast vast majority of people on both sides favor a two state solution. the US wants this too, as does virtually everybody else. its the obvious answer. why dosen't it happen?
Where do you get the idea that Palestinians want a two state solution ? They HAVE a two state solution in Gaza, and yet they still attack. So this is clearly not what they want.
Of course, if you look at the stated aims of the Palestinian state, here on wikipedia one of their stated aims is to kill every last Jew walking this earth. Various reasons are given, from outright conspiracy theories, to stating (with a direct and correct quote from islamic holy texts I might add) that allah not just wants every Jew eliminated, but will actively help accomplish that.
If you assume that hamas is indeed religious, there is no solution to this conflict short of the elimination of either side.
Israel is aiming at weapon caches and missle emplacements. How is that not defense?
> was deliberately created by creating the nation of Israel smack dab in the middle of everyone that hated them
There's really no avoiding that. If you had any clue about that you would realize it. On the other hand, this is their national homeland and they do have a history of fighting for it. They are a distinct group with their own culture and language rather than just lingering remnants of the last empire to hold the relevant real estate.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
When someone who is in a strait jacket is lashing out at you, are you more or less likely to release them? Do not take that as an analogy, but ponder a response.
Another stated purpose of Hamas is to kill every Jew in the world.
and fwiw, hardcore muslims also have no tolerance for christians. both reject mohammed (piss be upon him) and therefore are subhuman.
you think that if you let the islamists get rid of all the jews, they'll stop and be happy?
I seriously hope people are not that stupid.
islam hates all that don't fully agree with them. please, world, realize this and that this IS a world-level war.
its being fought in the ME but it won't end there.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
so-called arab spring is bullshit.
but keep believing that they are fighting for anything close to democracy.
(hint: they want MORE islamist concepts and laws. not less. this is not any kind of 'spring'.)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Something to think about, since it appears you haven't: and what if an Assad attack against Israel pulls in Egypt and throws all the Palestinians into full all out war mode. Hmmmm?
All of those combined military forces would not be able to do much to Israel. Palestine has been at nearly a full state of war for years already, so it's not like they can do more than the random rockets they already fire into Israel every day. Egypt is hurting and if they put too much military into fighting Egypt they will be toast from internal riots.
Iran is the only one with much of a military force, but guess what would be a big old christmas present to Israel? A first strike from Iran to give Israel a reason to strike ANYWHERE within Iran using ANY weapon. Every nuclear plant in Iran is a smoldering pile of rubble within one hour of an attack from Iran on Israel directly.
That also is true for Egypt and Palestine too you know. If either of them declare "war" war, then Israel gets to take the gloves off instead of having to worry about faked videos of injured people in Palestine.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I love how Hamas can arbitrarily lob rockets into Israel and when Israel defends itself the (almost) entire world cries foul. Hamas started firing the rockets in this, because Israel killed a Hamas commander who had orchestrated the bombing of several Israeli public areas, killing innocent people. You think if you create the most horrific retaliation this shit will end right then? Wanna BET? How the Palestinian terrorists get a pass all the time is beyond me. As far as I can see both sides are not beyond blame, but in every case Hamas starts the hot conflicts. You Arab fanbois are ridiculous. Israel will NEVER stop defending itself. All you do is dump more innocent Arab lives into the fire.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Who the fuck caches their weapons in populated areas? A. If an ammo dump blows because of improper maintenance, kids die. B. If you start shit and the other side retaliates, kids die. The location of these weapons was done intentionally and for effect. Hamas knows this; they just don't care if their own kids die. In fact, one could argue that they WANT their kids to die because it helps their PR and recruiting campaigns.
So, Hamas fires 200 rockets into Israel. Israel retaliates and "anonymous" cyberattcks their web sites. Yes, you are the villian if you do something about someone shooting rockets into your city.
Every time an issues likes this comes up liberals love to paint Israel as the villian, they swear they are not anti-semetic and they NEVER answer the question what they would do if someone fired rockets into their home town.
I never see American critiques turning over their land to a Native American foundation and moving to Europe. Ditto for Europeans, they have all lived on each others land ( after slaughtering for it ) for time immoralial. Lets not remind them of how Muslims are treated in their countries either.
If a child points an unloaded gun at a cop he will be shot dead and no one should have any sympathy for him. No one should whine and make excuses for him afterwards or demonize the cop.
Really?! In my country, if a child did that, then it would get in some serious trouble - but nothing bad would actually happen cause we don't arm the plods. But then our police are there to protect us from the establishment, not the other way around (even if that has been forgotten since Thatcher :s).
Worse comes to worst, say the gun was loaded, and cop died. We have a child who was too young to know the wrong he did, and a man that had pledged to lay his life on the line, fulfilling his pledge in the most final way. Most plods I know would take that accident a thousand times over, rather than a dead child.
Mossad is very good at what it does. As with the current action in Gaza, the idea to be "communicated" is that, if you attempt to hurt us, we will hurt you more than you can imagine. Usually, people get the message. Those who don't usually end up dead.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
The UN will never support Israel, because all the Islamic (and often the ex-Communist) states form a voting bloc. Check out this YouTube video, it explains a lot of what goes on in the (now thoroughly corrupted) UN, and why the UN wanted to 'protect religion from criticism) recently - which meant removing Free Speech rights (to criticize the insanity of religion, especially Islam:
Understanding UN Bias Against Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8
Wow, where do you live? In New Zealand we don't routinely arm our police, although they do carry firearms secured in the boot of their vehicles. If a youth threatens a cop with a weapon they'll be tasered if that is on hand ir shot if a taser is not available. Youths on the drug P have been carrying golf clubs smashing things up and after warnings from cops they have been shot and killed. If you live in a country even more passive than New Zealand I'd be interested to know.
However, you are missing the real point of this thread. Israel is taking great pains to avoiding killing children,. They have aborted numerous airstrikes (at the cost of hundreds of thousands of shekels) at least according to the IDF YouTube page; they also spend millions inventing the Delilah missile that is designed with an abort option to prevent civilian casualties; they have also sent out 12,000 texts and dropped leaflets to tell civilians to move away from rocket storage facilities.
Hamas, on the other hand cynically launches rockets from house yards and schools - hoping to make 'inoluntary matyrs' of the inhabitants when the Israelis try get the launchers.
So, given that Israel tries to preserve life (of both Israeli and Arab civilians) and Hamas tries to destroy it (of both Israeli and Arab civilians) it should be pretty clear to any unbiased observer who is decent and who is not. Unfortunately, many people are not unbiased and report lies as facts. eg. they slurp up all of Hamas' propaganda due to their misplace hatred of Israel. Example of Hamas lying (as it often does):
Hamas' Claims: True or False?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWSuWFbiYGM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl0lMjI1d5c
Hamas lies routinely, believing falsehoods are permitted by the Islamic principle of Taqiyyah ('religious dissimulation => blatant lying):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
"Yes. You've been their and spoken to people - on both sides."
Yes, I have. You are being sarcastic, of course. You assume that I've never seen any of the mid-east. You assume that I get all my information from one or another biased big-media news source. But, I HAVE been over there. Beruit City was the most exciting and/or dangerous place that I have ever seen, with multiple armies and armed groups maneuvering in the countryside, as well as in the city. I was there before the Marines arrived to safeguard the remainder of the civilians.
Don't assume anything, my friend.
Well I haven't been to Gaza or Israel for about 8 months, so perhaps this is out of date, however I know your original statement
Unfortunately, there aren't any "good guys" over there.
is a load of crap. There's plenty of people trying to live nice normal lives in Israel, and live in fear of Hamas rockets landing on them every day. It's a terrible situation to be in.
On the other side of the fence (literally), there's plenty of people trying to live nice normal lives in Gaza, and live in fear of Israeli warplanes bombing them. Several of them spy for Israel, that's how the IDF manage to get so many targets. If they're caught, they're killed.
Given the mismatch in the power of each side, and the quality of housing, and the fact one side is governed by a terrorist organisation, means it's a lot more dangerous to live in Gaza than live in Ashkelon.
Some people in Israel near the border are bugging out, fleeing their homes to go to the north until things quieten down again. I don't blame them. A friend in Jerusalem was worried enough when the rocket landed nearby.
They're lucky to have that option, both having the money to escape, but also the freedom to move more than 30 miles from where they're born. On the whole though, they can't think it's that bad living near Gaza as there's little stopping them moving north (or south).
People in Gaza don't have that choice. I have a magic western passport and GPO card, it enables me to pass through Erez into Israel more-or-less at will. People in the West Bank can move a little, and even go abroad, but people born in Gaza - on the whole - don't have the ability to leave. 99.999% of them are born, live, and die in an area 1/10th the size of Rhode Island, but 150% the population. They have to grow their food, power their houses, teach their kids, and bury their dead in that slab of land.
Bullshit. There are open areas in Gaza and Rafah. Stop making excuses for those crazies who want 'involuntary matyrdom' for their own children.
It isn't the Muslims per say, but the extremists. Extremism of any faith, colour or dogma is the problem. I know enough Muslims around me, and none of them would ask for what is happening in the name of their religion.
One of the differences with Islamic extremists, is that they live in an area that is generally politically unstable and throwing in a country like Israel into the mix is like throwing oil onto fire. BTW the power grab by certain imams is very similar to what the priests were doing back in Europe 500 years ago. The main difference is the realm of influence and the tools at their disposal.
Israel doesn't help the situation by building their colonies. I am not sure the USA would be happy if Mexico started establishing colonies on US soil. Knowing some of the right wing there, the outcome would likely be the same.
Before you ask I am agnostic of Christian background, but feel we should try to understand the problems better.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
You are forgetting the 7000 rockets so far this year. The Israelis got an opportunity to take this guy out and they did.
The other thing you, and many other Slashdotters, also don't understand that all the negotiations were for a 'ceasefire', not a permanent peace treaty. You see, Hamas seeks a ceasefire ('hudna' in Arabic) whenever they are weak. Islam permits such ceasefires to be made with hated enemies to build up strength until the next attack. If Hamas was in a position of strength they do not have to offer hudna to the Israelis.
If Hamas agreed to a peace treaty then Israel would grant it immediately. The thing is, Hamas do not want peace, only ceasefires to build strength. Hamas don't think permanent peace is an option, they believe they have "Allah on their side" and will eventually bring the Caliphate to the entire World (starting with Israel). Now i'm not saying this is logical, but that is how Hamas (and other violent Islamofascist theocracies) thinks.
Israel is aiming at weapon caches and missle emplacements. How is that not defense?
Israel's government has stated: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages"
That's not defence, that's annihilation.
hudna reading:
http://www.meforum.org/1925/tactical-hudna-and-islamist-intolerance
What does this mean for the present hudna, or any that is likely to follow it? The jihad is waged against the entire world, but Israel has become its focus. Since the jihad is deemed unending, and since Israel is going to stay, there will be no end to the religiously-inspired struggle. The Hamas covenant, for example, is unequivocal: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad. Initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
While I can relate to the general sentiment, I do have issues with a few of the details.
They're lucky to have that option, both having the money to escape, but also the freedom to move more than 30 miles from where they're born.
By and large, the people living in those regions are among the least rich the Israeli society have. Escaping during times of war is mostly sponsored by volunteers.
Be that as it may, the Palestinian's inability to escape is offset, to some (not large) degree, by the fact that those good people are not actively targeted by the IDF. As opposed to the good people living on the east of the fence, who know that the rockets are aimed in order to kill them.
On the whole though, they can't think it's that bad living near Gaza as there's little stopping them moving north (or south).
Please tell me you are not seriously saying that your solution for someone living in Sderot and who is sick of being constantly targeted is to move.
People in Gaza don't have that choice. I have a magic western passport and GPO card, it enables me to pass through Erez into Israel more-or-less at will. People in the West Bank can move a little, and even go abroad, but people born in Gaza - on the whole - don't have the ability to leave.
And yet, they keep telling me Hamas was elected in democratic elections. This means that the majority of those very same people WANTED crazy terrorists who's proclaimed aim is to kill Jews to be their leaders. I wonder what the people casting a Hamas vote thought would happen next.
Now, before you accuse me of muddying the water, I am not trying to disclaim your statement that most of these people are good people who really just want to live in piece. I am saying, however, that the Palestinians should be smarter regarding who they choose as their leaders. Much though I ache for the Palestinian suffering (and I do), if it's them or us, I rather it be them. If they don't like it, they should stop making it a "them or us" situation.
They keep telling us it is illegitimate for us to interfere with whoever the Palestinians choose as their leaders. I accept both the moral correctness of that statement, as well as the practical wisdom behind it. The flip side, however, is that whoever the Palestinian do choose is the one who will be representing them, for better or for worse. In the case of Hamas, it is for worse. Until they do something about it, the people, good though they are, will have to eat the stew that their crooked, crazy leadership have prepared for them.
Shachar
Or do you perhaps mean the 171 rockets that were fired from Gaza into Israeli civilian centers last month, or the 100 rockets fired on Nov 11th alone (just 3 days before Jabari's assassination)?
The curious thing is why you think only Israel is at fault here. And strangely you use an Op-Ed as some kind of proof of that notion.
1) In the Middle Ages, they had no (intermediate range) rockets. So that would fix the situation.
2) Those people live mentally in the 8th century anyway. Hard to tell the difference, I'm afraid.
I don't know anyone in Gaza that "lives mentally in the 8th century". Have you ever been?
Gaza is relatively cosmopolitan for a 3rd-world Muslim city. It's a nicer city than Jakarta, Delhi and Nairobi.
Great link.
As explained in that link, that is exactly why I mention the specific term 'hudna' and because of the implications that hudna has for Muslims (slightly different than their other words for ceasefire). Basically as long as Hamas uses the term hudna in its statements (and it does) you know it is not committed to peace. They are only using hudna as break between offenses to build strength, and fool Europeans/New Leftists that they have any interested other than the complete conquest of Israel (which, if you look at their charter, is one of their principal aims).
How does a rational actor (eg. Israel) go about negotiating with that attitude/religious belief? The Israelis tried but have come to the conclusion it is pointless (eg. Ehuk Barak offering pretty decent terms in 2000 at Camp David). Maybe it is not pointless but I can certainly see how the Israelis can't see the point in negotiating against a party that is only interested in temporary hudna, and never in true peace (salaam).
I hope my posts have pointed the way for further research directions for those interested in the reasons why peace won't come to the region (IMHO because the jihadis believe they are commanded to kill or enslave all unbelievers, and Hamas subscribes to that notion; everything else is tactical breaks 'hudna' or tactical falsehoods 'taqiyya' to neuter reasonable Westerners that would otherwise see their true global intention).
And the correct response is to fire rockets at other children.
Show me where I said that. The moral of this story is that there is no moral high ground, only a situation that must be resolved regardless of who fired the first shot.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I sat in a bar in Haifa, Israel, one evening. On one side of me, was a professor from Florida, who wanted to philosophize. On the other side of me, was a Mexican who grew up on the streets of Chicago, who was also in a philosophical mood.
The two talked philosophy for quite some time, each unable to understand the other. I just sat and listened, laughing at both. Oh, I'd insert a comment here and there, that I thought might be enlightening, but mostly I just listened. The two of them just didn't have any language in common.
Finally, Carlos reached across the table, punched the doctor in the nose, the doctor tumbled over his chair, and landed on his ass.
The doctor looked up at Carlos, looked at me, looked back at Carlos, and said "Oh, I see your point."
Real life trumps academics, especially in politics.
In this case, all-out war would be "killing each other off". As in any war of attrition, one side will last longer than the other. Whichever side lasts longer, "wins". It's that simple, really. Winner takes all, meaning, "all of everything that is left to take".
If you need further explanation, you'll have to find your local bar and start arguing philosophy.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
How do you propose it to be resolved?