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Nokia Asks Court To Block RIM Products For Violating Patent Agreement

itwbennett writes "The ITworld article reads: 'Nokia has asked a California court to enforce an arbitration award that would prevent Research In Motion from selling products with wireless LAN capabilities until the companies can agree on patent royalty rates. Nokia and RIM both declined to comment on Nokia's request, a copy of which was obtained by IDG News Service, but such a filing is typically made after two parties settle a dispute through arbitration but one party does not follow through on the agreement.'" Also from the article: "The patents in question are U.S. patents 5,479,476, which covers user-adjustable modes for phones; 5,845,219, which covers call alert during silent mode; 6,049,796, which covers real-time search on a personal digital assistant; 6,055,439, which covers a cellphone user interface; 6,253,075, which covers call rejection; and 6,427,078, which covers a small, handheld workstation."

52 comments

  1. This is idiotic by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These patents are round-corner-grade stupid.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:This is idiotic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These patents are round-corner-grade stupid.

      No! You don't say! Wow! I never thought about it like that! I had no idea, since that sentiment never seems to come up around Slashdot!

    2. Re:This is idiotic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the more surprising since Nokia does have a lot of valid hardware patents. I'm not going to look at these, but none of them sound remotely connected to 802.11 wireless LAN.

    3. Re:This is idiotic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the rate we're going we'll only be able to buy second hand phones off ebay because all the new ones are blocked... from all the companies!

  2. This makes me sick by ciderbrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These shouldn't have patents in the first place! They'd patent the wheel if they could.

    1. Re:This makes me sick by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Funny
      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:This makes me sick by ciderbrew · · Score: 2

      Coffee, meet monitor. Monitor, meet coffee.. wonderful. :)

    3. Re:This makes me sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5479476 = filed 1994, issued 1995
      5845219 = filed 1996, issued 1998
      6049796 = filed 1997, issued 2000
      6055439 = filed 1996, issued 2000
      6253075 = filed 1998, issued 2001
      6427078 = filed 1997, issued 2002

      how obvious were all these thing 15 years ago?
      can you even remember what your cell phone was 15 years ago?
      did you even have a cell phone 15 years ago?

  3. I have patented breathing. by concealment · · Score: 5, Informative

    Patent # 6,742,087: "Oxidative process for exchange of atmosphere across a membrane."

    You all owe me everything you've ever earned.

    This patent thing is getting to the silly point. The original idea was that by making some ideas owned by certain parties, you would force others to innovate around them. But that doesn't really apply when we're talking about a standard (Wi-Fi) on a standard type of device (PDA).

    At that point, we're just holding ourselves back.

    1. Re:I have patented breathing. by AltF4ToWin · · Score: 0

      I think Apple already own that one.

    2. Re:I have patented breathing. by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But that doesn't really apply when we're talking about a standard (Wi-Fi) on a standard type of device (PDA).

      I couldn't agree more. We've had variants of 802 for decades (it's ethernet basically), and 802.11 since 1997 or so.

      To me this sounds like so many patents which seem to read "a system for doing something well known, but with a computer". Connecting a device to a network isn't exactly anything new ... having a hand-held device connect to a wifi network is something which is pretty obvious by now.

      Does Nokia try to sue laptop makers who connect to wifi? Or does some how "with a cell phone" magically make this an innovation?

      All tablets I've ever seen can connect to wifi, and some of those can also use cell signals as well. Does Nokia sue them? What is the cutoff point at which adding wifi to a new device ceases to be an innovation, and becomes something obvious?

      This is really stupid.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:I have patented breathing. by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      Patent # 6,742,087: "Oxidative process for exchange of atmosphere across a membrane."

      You all owe me everything you've ever earned.

      Well, that depends entirely on the claims. What exactly is the "oxidative process" you've patented, and what part of the process would not be obvious to someone skilled in the art of biochemistry?

      This patent thing is getting to the silly point. The original idea was that by making some ideas owned by certain parties, you would force others to innovate around them.

      No, the original idea was to create an economic incentive to solve one's own design problems, rather than just waiting for someone else to do the hard work, then copying their result cheaply.

      In the grand Slashdot tradition of bad analogies, consider a school where cheating on exams is forbidden, but students are allowed to openly sell their answers for whatever price they want. Now there's a financial motivation for a student to do their own work first, and sell it off. Of course, there are bullies trying to get something for nothing through sheer force, and there are also manipulators who will make false accusations to screw over someone else.

      But that doesn't really apply when we're talking about a standard (Wi-Fi) on a standard type of device (PDA).

      Okay. Now implement the standard RFC 1149 on a cell phone. When you figure out how to fit the tiny birdcages into the phone, breed the tiny pigeons, and train them to seek a particular mobile device rather than their home, let me know. Since it's just combining two standards, surely it's not a problem if I copy the solution?

      At that point, we're just holding ourselves back.

      What's holding our technology back isn't the patent system. It's the abuse of combining patents and standards, with different license terms to different manufacturers of "standard" devices. What I'd like to see are reduced patent terms, based on the time-to-market for different industries. Software, for example, may only have a patent life of five years, because after that time the state of the art will have moved on, and the old program is obsolete. I'd also like to see a requirement for any patented standard to have a fixed license fee. If your technology becomes part of a published standard, you must allow licensing at a flat per-copy rate that is open for alteration by a suitable judge.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    4. Re:I have patented breathing. by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      At that point, we're just holding ourselves back.

      That IS the purpose of patents. They exist only to prevent others from innovating based on generally available ideas. Or at least to prevent innovation except once every 20 years (in the US).

      Sheesh, get with the program (not that you have a choice, anyway)!

    5. Re:I have patented breathing. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      I think its time for Apple (and some others) to try some real innovation "With a red-hot poker up the posterior orifice!"

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    6. Re:I have patented breathing. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Inventing a wireless network may be patentable.

      Doing something wirelessly that is already done over wire networks should not be.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  4. Two bald men... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...fighting over a comb

    1. Re:Two bald men... by Dupple · · Score: 2
      --
      Watch those corners
    2. Re:Two bald men... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Well, that's OK .. they can always apply to a US court and try to get them to tell the Swedes they're not allowed to enforce that.

      I seem to recall that happening between Apple and Samsung.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Two bald men... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean MS and Motorola

    4. Re:Two bald men... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would suing Swedes help RIM against Nokia?

      (Hint: Fish have them)

    5. Re:Two bald men... by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my first thought was that Nokia had somehow patented "a method of using stupid managerial decisions for falling into obscurity with mobile devices".

    6. Re:Two bald men... by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

      Do you mean apply in a Canadian court (RIM is Canadian) to tell the Finns (Nokia is based in FInland) they're not allowed to enforce that?

  5. Today RIM, Tomorrow Android. by Lucky_Norseman · · Score: 1

    They have a patent on one mobile workstation and want to use it to own all possible mobile workstations (that is, all smartphones)
    Android will surely be next.

    1. Re:Today RIM, Tomorrow Android. by jcfandino · · Score: 1

      The difference is that tomorrow Microsoft will own Nokia's patents after it bankrupts.

  6. Nokia Suing RIM? by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So is the point here just to funnel what little future these companies have into their lawyers pockets?

    If you are circling the drain spending all your income on lawsuits seems unwise.

    1. Re:Nokia Suing RIM? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      If you are circling the drain spending all your income on lawsuits seems unwise.

      Sadly, not if your lawyers can get your royalties in perpetuity.

      This is a desperate act, but if it works, it gets them another revenue stream (assuming RIM doesn't keel over).

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Nokia Suing RIM? by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      Microsoft using a has-been company for a proxy war? Sounds SCOish.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  7. Beggars Suing Beggars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This really sounds like a case of one beggar suing another beggar over the leftover scraps of already consumed rats. You know a company is almost on its last legs when it resorts to suing another company also in significant financial trouble. RIM hasn't posted a profit in the previous 3 quarters, while Nokia hasn't posted a profit in well over one year.

    If Nokia needs assistance in helping them balance their books, maybe they should start by exiting the US market, since they make significantly more money in the European and Asian markets.

  8. Not really by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2
    RIM share price has been rising as journalists have been shown BB 10 and seen that it is pretty good. Windows 8 not so much. There is a fight on for no. 3 position in the phone wars, and Nokia now suddenly seems to be worried that it is going to lose.

    Patent wars are increasingly a sign that the ideas fountain is drying up. Exactly like water wars...fight over old or weak patents, because we are not expecting to get many new ones.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Not really by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Microsoft told Elop to abandon Qt because it was the choice of open source hippies.

      RIM adopts Qt for BB10, so MS tells Elop to sue RIM.

  9. LMAO by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know you are in dire straights (Nokia) when they are anticipating competition from RIM.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
    1. Re:LMAO by Quakeulf · · Score: 1

      Must... not... make... employment... at... RIM... joke...

    2. Re:LMAO by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Or viewing RIM as having deep pockets at this point. They're relying on RIM's "on its last leg" status to settle out of court all that much faster to keep direly-needed sales flowing. Scummy patent troll behavior, independent of the validity of any legitimate patent issues.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  10. One way to achieve this. by concealment · · Score: 1

    What is the cutoff point at which adding wifi to a new device ceases to be an innovation, and becomes something obvious?

    I don't know. Maybe this is what we should ask our courts and congresscritters to decide?

    1. Re:One way to achieve this. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I don't know. Maybe this is what we should ask our courts and congresscritters to decide?

      Well, since the congresscritters (which Finland may or may not have) will do whatever the lobbyists pay them to do ... good luck with that.

      With the head of the USPTO saying this whole mess is working fine ... I just don't see this insanity getting fixed anytime soon.

      I'm bet if someone came to market with a dildo that was wifi enabled, someone would sue them for patent infringement -- despite both dildos and wifi being pretty common things (and, no, I have no idea of what you would use wifi for in conjunction with a dildo, something involving 'teledildonics' I'm sure). Admittedly, such things may already exist -- I don't want to know.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:One way to achieve this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ACette would like to hear more about "teledildonics"...

    3. Re:One way to achieve this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i too am intrigued by this teledildonics, please go on...

  11. Confused.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do you need to block products that no one is buying anyway?

  12. Sigh... by TheP4st · · Score: 1

    I cannot help but wonder how much all these insane lawsuits cost us customers for no real benefit whatsoever, beside lining the pockets of members of the legal profession.

    --
    "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
  13. Bottom Feeders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So these [now] bottom feeders are fighting each other just to stay alive apparently.

  14. Very Microsoft of them by kurt555gs · · Score: 2

    No more innovation! Law suits are the way of the future!

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  15. Bottom Feeders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So these bottom feeders are [now] fighting each other to stay alive? Where is SCO in all this?

  16. Not a real patent, just a "registration" by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    Too late:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn965-wheel-patented-in-australia.html

    It's not a patent as we'd think of them, but just a registration that says "you filed these papers on this date". They're never examined and have no presumption of patentability. Unlike examination systems, it actually really is a literal rubber stamp.

  17. Lumia 920 Rocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately their legal and financial advisors don't.

  18. Just ask The SCO Group about that one by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

    oh right you can't

    legal tip when the guys on the other side of the table are nicknamed MOFO and Nazgul RUN NOW!!

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  19. I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I posted that this would occur when Microsoft first succeeded injecting the Trojan Horse's ass Elop into Nokia. Not too many responded or even realized that this is really what was going on!

    The real market target of windows phones is RIM business friendly phones and BBM. The chairs are flying again in Redmond and they are aimed straight at Canada.

    All this after the fact patent bullshit has got to stop now, it is just a way to screw over the competition not actually innovate anymore!

    Microsoft wants to bankrupt Rim and eat their lunch, this is obvious now. Nokia has just become a shell company for Microsoft plain and simple. Microsoft so far has not got involved in this other than to pay shills to do their dirty work everywhere the same way they did with the original "screw Google" campaign. And perhaps even backing the Java/Dalvik lawsuit round one against Google.

    I hope that their products, distribution system, and shills all take a bath because of this kind of bullshit. Intellectual property rights being more valuable than product my ass Ballmer. I hope someone hits you with a chair as you go out the door next year after the board members can your ass for sinking the ship!

    What has this got to do with GOOGLE you might ask? Well all the shills here and everywhere on the net that claim GOOGLE is really evil etc, etc, need not be afraid because Google has nothing on the 800 LB gorrilla in REDMOND when it comes to claiming to be benevolent! Microsoft is without a doubt the most malevolent corporate entity since Krup under Hiltler!

  20. Setting a precedent by JasonDT · · Score: 1

    RIM is a dying, easy to beat company... If they win, they set a precedent...

    --
    "It's not that I don't understand what your going through. Its that I just don't care"
  21. Technology's Bum Fights(tm) by Yakasha · · Score: 1

    Title match tonight, RIM vs. Nokia.

  22. Oh, c'mon... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    ...kicking RIM when they're down. Who would bother to do that? Oh, wait, Nokia. This is like rats scuffling amongst the horses' hooves on a battlefield.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  23. Stop BB10 to WP8's benefit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's obvious Nokia and Windows Phone 8 have no chance of taking market shares from iOS or Android, but RIM is a much easier target. Now comes BB10 and it's getting good reviews that may just be what will keep RIM from sinking. Nokia has to at least slow them down to give WP8 more time to get some traction; they have no choice they bet the company on that OS.

  24. How much by no-body · · Score: 2
    are they (Nokia) making on patent ownership?

    That seems to be a major problem these days. They are no longer producing anything and making others pay for something which happened long time ago.

    "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possess the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lites his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.


    That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement, or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property."
    ThomasJefferson