In a Symbolic Shift, IBM's India Workforce Likely Exceeds That In US

dcblogs writes "IBM has 112,000 employees in India, up from 6,000 in 2002, with an average wage of about $17,000, according to an internal company document. That wage level may seem shockingly low to U.S. IT workers, but it is in alignment with IT wages in India.The Everest Group said the annual wages generally in India for a software engineer range from $8,000 to $10,000; for a senior software engineer, $12,000 to $15,000, and between $18,000 and $20,000 for a team lead. A project manager may make as much as $31,000. IBM employs about 430,000 globally. According to the Alliance at IBM, the U.S. staff is at about 92,000. It was at 121,000 at the end of 2007, and more in previous years. It has been widely expected over the past year or two that IBM's India workforce was on track to exceed its U.S. workforce, if it hadn't exceeded it already."

Comments

What happems

[colinrichardday]

What happens when corporations can no longer exploit global wage differences?

Re:What happems

[bobthesungeek76036]

And who will IBM sell computers to when everyone is making $17K/year???

Re:What happems

[MyLongNickName]

It will be similar to the events that happened in the United States. Basically, we used to have a wild difference in median incomes by state. There is still quite a difference, but nothing like existed before the interstate highway system. State importance decreased and more people viewed their identity in terms of country than state.

I see the same thing happening on a global scale. There will be rich countries and poor. Folks in the US are going to have to get used to not being the prima donna by default. Other countries will get much richer. We'll get a much more stable world, and one where country doesn't matter as much as it does today.

Is it painful? yes. Will there be losers? Yes. But I think there will be many more winners than losers.

Re:What happems

[Creepy]

Actually, we've seen some of that at my job - in India we either get job attrition or requesting raises. This has caused a lot of jobs to be outsourced again, to China, where we get 4-5 workers for each US worker instead of 3-4. And the best part about it is the US was paying us to do it when US employees get replaced. Not sure about the current situation, as my company is now owned by Germans (we probably don't get as much US help to outsource anymore).

Re:What happems

[QRDeNameland]

I have never really understood why many Americans are so hostile to unionization. There appears to be decades of brainwashing in action and mythos regarding correlation between hardwork and financial success.

I think there's more to it than that. The sad fact is that in way too many cases, US unions became little more than protection rackets, where in order to get anything done one had to accept high levels of incompetency, featherbedding and lollygagging, not to mention instances of leadership by mob goons. Even at the height of unionization in the US, the majority of the workforce was non-unionized, and what they saw of organized labor did not generate much sympathy.

Myself, I am quite sympathetic to the idea of workers organizing for greater leverage with their employers; however, every experience in my working life I ever had that brushed up against unions gave me the impression that they rarely brought any value to the table for anyone but them. It's a common perception, and perhaps that view is colored by brainwashing and mythology but there is more than a grain of truth to it.

Or as a wiser man than I put it:

Once upon a time the idea was good
If only they'd a done what they said they would
It ain't no better, they's makin' it worse
The labor movement's got the mafia curse

Frank Zappa - "Stick Together"

IBM

[UncleWilly]

India Business Machines!

So explain the Costco story then?

[SmallFurryCreature]

If high wages are such a problem, how come Costco can do it?

Wallstreet doesn't like it, they want Costco to lower the wages to the minimum to maximize short-term profits because just growing and making a decent profit ain't enough for shareholders... except Costco shares have gone up despite warnings from Wallstreet.

Wallstreet loves to squeeze everything to generate the max profit for shareholders this quarter... next quarter? They will will find another company to squeeze.

IBM can well outsource all the work but what happens to the knowledge? What stops an Indian company hiring IBM workers and creating Indian Business Machines? That is after all what Japan did with car production? First you make the parts, then you put the parts together and then you make your own parts and put them together and how is Detroit doing again?

Americans love blaming unions but North-West european countries (UK does not count) have strong unions and no problems with them. The Dutch Polder model was widely praised until right-wing POLITICIANS destroyed it, much to the chagrin of the supposed right wing business owners who just want to make a deal they can count them even if it costs a bit because uncertainty is WORSE for business then knowing a deal is going to cost you a fraction of a percent more in salaries.

The US needs to get over its love for Wallstreet, it is a leech and NOT a job creator.

You know the really funny thing? In Season 22 of the Simpsons we learn that he makes 70k a year... yet he is often shown in the series as a "poor" man who can't afford health care... 70k that is what its writers consider a low wage on which you can barely survive and are always struggling.

It shows you just how big the divide is. Wallmart workers make 24k a year if they are lucky. Costco make 50k. Both companies turn a profit. Which one do you shop at?

Re:Yes - maybe.

[MyLongNickName]

But, in the US, our living standards have been decreasing for over a decade.

Yup. Basically we don't invest in our infrastructure, spend idiotically on wars instead of on our own people and expect our lifestyle to stay the same. We deemphasize education, performing below our peer group and expect our lifestyle to stay the same. I'd argue that the fact our lifestyle is dropping is proof that globalization is working as it should.

We have real problems in the United States that were masked by the fact that we were the world superpower and came out of WW II relatively unscathed. Global competition is showing that we have some things to fix.