Why KDE Plasma Makes Sense For Linux Gaming

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Why KDE Plasma Makes Sense For Linux Gaming

Posted by timothy on Saturday December 1, 2012 @12:01PM from the compatibility-matters dept.

sfcrazy writes "Martin Gräßlin, a lead KDE developer, addresses some queries around a topic bugging Gnome and Unity users — the fallback mode. In this post he says that 'having the non-composited mode around allows us to do things like turning compositing off when running games or heavy OpenGL based applications such as Blender. So if you want to get some of the now finally available games for Linux, KDE Plasma should be your primary choice to enjoy the game. I have also heard of users switching to KDE Plasma because we still provide non OpenGL based setups.'"

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Alternative: XFCE by gagol · 2012-12-01 12:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

I much prefer the simplicity and conservatism of XFCE4. Can optionally use compositing too and no need to relearn interface.

--
Tomorrow is another day...
1. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 12:06 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  sure, but you dont look like your using a movie OS ;-D
2. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Threni · 2012-12-01 12:19 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I switched to (Linux Mint 13) KDE precisely because I didn't want to learn a new interface (Unity). It's great. I used XFCE and LXDE previously, having read of their great suitability for lower end hardware, but..well, I don't have any low end hardware. I have nothing special but it runs KDE perfectly, and it looks great. I can't be bothered to learn all the ins and outs of it - I launch stuff via what I'll always call the 'start menu' or shortcuts or from the 'task bar' - but it's good to know that there's more to it if I could be bothered to learn it. The point is, nobodies forcing me to use it. There seem to be a rash of these Mac-like OSes these days (including the hilarious Windows 8) - I don't quite understand the appeal.
3. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 12:43 · Score: 0
  
  Windows manages to still perform well without sacrificing 3d performance.
  Seems to me Linux is trying to emulate WIndows XP days where there is tons of ways to do everything and it changes all the time and is total unintuitive.
  After all the hassle Linux audio has had it still sucks. (Other than jackd that is great for what it is intended for).
  Graphics drivers are still awful. (AMD released the specs after all the moaning of the community the end result still worse than AMD's drivers and not the exponentially better that XiG managed with the r200 specs).
  Nvidia has not even managed getting an xterm to scroll perfectly without tearing.
  I cannot understand why anyone would ever take 3d eyecandy over being able to use an application properly.
  (If you don't need X the framebuffer looks beautiful all the HW accel is now broken though :/)
4. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 12:55 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  There seem to be a rash of these Mac-like OSes these days (including the hilarious Windows 8) - I don't quite understand the appeal.
  That's because you (like most of us here) learned about computers using devices with separate keyboard, mouse and screen. We are currently at the tipping point where more youth learn about computers through devices with only a touchscreen (phones, tablets) and have never used a laptop.
  That tipping point is driving interfaces that cater to the touchscreen user experience, even though those interfaces don't allow for as much interaction as UIs driven by the keyboard/mouse/screen user experience.
5. Re:Alternative: XFCE by gagol · 2012-12-01 12:56 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Last windows I actually used was vista on a laptop. With composition activated I lost 25% battery life, deactivated I got a UI so ugly its not even funny jocking about it. I went to linux and will never looked back.
  
  --
  Tomorrow is another day...
6. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Threni · 2012-12-01 13:11 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Yes, but I had no problem picking up Android, whether on phone or tablet. It's just intuitive. I didn't have the first fucking clue how I was supposed to use Unity to do anything. Windows 8 is worse because you now have to learn two completely different interfaces instead of one. I need a 'normal' interface on a 'normal computer' because I develop software, edit photographs, tag/copy mp3 files between devices, use one device to control another etc. Sure, if I were a user and had no need to actually create anything I'd use a tablet. But these desktop OSes (Windows 8, unity etc) will mostly be running on regular computers without touch screens, so i'm not sure of the utility of making this change. I'm sure Microsoft and Canonical believe that their OSes will soon be on millions of touch-enabled devices; I find this unlikely.
  (BTW: You're the first AC I've responded to in years. Why haven't you created an account here? I almost didn't see your reply as I filter ACs away).
7. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Karzz1 · 2012-12-01 13:26 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That's because you (like most of us here) learned about computers using devices with separate keyboard, mouse and screen. We are currently at the tipping point where more youth learn about computers through devices with only a touchscreen....
  
  I agree with what you are saying, to a point. I have been using computers of one sort or another since the early 80's and have always had a keyboard at minimum, and a mouse and possibly other HID devices later.
  
  Recently (past ~3yrs) I have used several tablets/smartphones. While I am continuously impressed with what can be done on these devices, I am always cognizant of what *can't* be done on these devices.
  
  Tablets/Smartphones are great for instant satisfaction, but are quite weak compared to a desktop, unless you have great eyesight and you only do a few minimal things. Even browsing the web becomes cumbersome quickly when you need to *type* anything. Forget about doing any actual work on one of these things such as replying to emails or anything that is enhanced by more than one 10" screen.
  
  I realize that the hardware/software manufacturers love the idea of these portable devices and all of the restrictions (hardware/software locks) contained within, but I like to think that people will not always be content with the lowest common denominator.
  
  I agree that these devices have a place , however they will never fully displace desktops/laptops.
  
  --
  Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
8. Re:Alternative: XFCE by ShieldW0lf · 2012-12-01 14:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  There seem to be a rash of these Mac-like OSes these days (including the hilarious Windows 8) - I don't quite understand the appeal.
  That's because you (like most of us here) learned about computers using devices with separate keyboard, mouse and screen. We are currently at the tipping point where more youth learn about computers through devices with only a touchscreen (phones, tablets) and have never used a laptop.
  That tipping point is driving interfaces that cater to the touchscreen user experience, even though those interfaces don't allow for as much interaction as UIs driven by the keyboard/mouse/screen user experience.
  Your statement is not that far removed from "Most youth learned about computers through devices with only a gamepad. It's true, but it doesn't mean much. The thing that makes what we call a "computer" a "computer" is that it's general purpose, and designed to empower creative work. Barring radical developments, tablets and phones are not going to displace the traditional computer any more than game consoles did.
  
  --
  -1 Uncomfortable Truth
9. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Bengie · 2012-12-01 14:56 · Score: 1
  
  Win7 gets better battery life with composition because it offloads to the GPU instead of using the CPU. Vista had a lot of issues with RTM, not sure how SP3 is doing, but most people I know skipped Vista anyway.
10. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 15:13 · Score: 0
  
  Seems to me Linux is trying to emulate WIndows XP days where there is tons of ways to do everything and it changes all the time and is total unintuitive.
  So true.
11. Re:Alternative: XFCE by aNonnyMouseCowered · 2012-12-01 15:14 · Score: 1
  
  "The thing that makes what we call a "computer" a "computer" is that it's general purpose, and designed to empower creative work. Barring radical developments, tablets and phones are not going to displace the traditional computer any more than game consoles did."
  I have a problem with your definition of "computer". The first computers weren't general purpose in any modern sense, simply because they were too low-powered to be anything other than glorified adding machines, or primitive calculators.
  Even a smartphone is more general purpose than any computer made before the invention of the so-called "personal" computer. As for "empowering creative work", that's more a legacy of the Macintosh, although printing dot-matrix birthday banners might be considered "creative" by the users of the early keyboard-only Apple computers.
  Tablets will displace the desktop computer and laptops in contexts where users don't need to input large amounts of alphanumeric data. Tablets have the advantage of being more discreet, physically more manageable, and yes more versatile than a traditional laptop. I've seen people use their tablets as a video camera. Even without an e-Ink screen, they work better for reading ebooks, especially when you don't have the luxury of a level surface.
  Note how I specifically mentioned "alphanumeric data" above. A hardware keyboard has definite advantages for programmers and users of alphabetic writing systems. But for users of writing systems that require up to thousands of unique symbols, a hardware keyboard with its fixed set of keys isn't that more efficient than having the on-screen ability to summon different sets of virtual keyboards.
12. Re:Alternative: XFCE by markdavis · 2012-12-01 15:24 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Well, you might want to skip MS-Windows 8 too, then. I messed with it for a few hours on my new touchscreen ultrabook Lenovo Twist before blowing it away to install Fedora.
  All I can say is that Win8 is absolutely hideous. It is pretty at first, until you have to actually try and DO something, then it quickly throws up dozens of barriers. I can't imagine being forced to have to use such a monster on a regular basis.
  The Twist only comes with 128MB SDD and almost *HALF* of it was completely consumed by the Win8 *BEAST*. And that is with almost no crapware and very few useful things installed at all.
  In contrast, Fedora 17 just *FLIES* on the machine, everything worked out of the box (even the touchscreen) except the card reader (which I had to compile a driver). After installing thousands of packages- KDE, LXDE, games, browsers, test editors, multi-media tools and editors, graphics manipulation, several productivity apps, full dev system, etc, it used 5GB.
  I am curious to see if KDE can incorporate a tablet-like interface that can co-exist with a real desktop-like interface with auto-switching on the fly (kind of the whole point of the Twist). They have all the components and probably the best environment to make it happen....
13. Re:Alternative: XFCE by osu-neko · 2012-12-01 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  Well, you might want to skip MS-Windows 8 too, then.
  It seems Windows follows a Star Trek like release schedule -- you should skip every other version. 98 was good, ME was bad, XP was good, Vista was bad, 7 was good... waiting for 9/Blue/whatever...
  
  --
  "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
14. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 16:01 · Score: 0
  
  The Twist only comes with 128MB SDD and almost *HALF* of it was completely consumed by the Win8 *BEAST*.
  Your mommy will punish you for posting bullshit on slashdot.
15. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Inigo+Montoya · 2012-12-01 16:48 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  It's very likely, as interfaces evolve, that we will have specialized "developer" versions of these interfaces. These developer versions enable you to be creative, and to do all that you need to do to make an application that is primarily targeted at these newer interfaces, including having keyboard access, pen, 3d input mice, multiple monitors, system simulators, etc...
  This is already the case with game consoles; There is always a developer version of the hardware.
  In time, I expect the same from an OS targeted for end-users.
16. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Pentium100 · 2012-12-01 17:55 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Yes, but I had no problem picking up Android, whether on phone or tablet. It's just intuitive.
  I got an Android phone to try and was fuming most of the time I used it.
  OK, so I have this new phone, I want to copy the call and SMS ringtones from my old phone (call ringtone is an mp3, SMS ringtone is a midi file). So, I transfer them over bluetooth and now they are sitting in the phones memory. OK.
  On a few Nokia phones I had you selected a custom ringtone just like the builtin ones, except you selected "custom" and then browsed to where the file was. So I try this here, no "custom". OK, maybe I can select the file in file manager and make it as ringtone - no, the file just starts playing. It turns out that I need to open the music playing app, open the file then I can finally set it as my ringtone. Great. Except there is no way to set the SMS ringtone. To do that I needed to download a new app from the app store and use it to set the SMS ringtone, except that app does not support midi files (even though the phone does) so I had to
  convert my file to mp3.
  Yep, that was so intuitive, I had to google a few times.
  At work I used unity for a few minutes at most - it was installed by default, so I used it to launch a terminal window and install KDE.
17. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Immerman · 2012-12-01 18:20 · Score: 1
  
  A sad day that will be if it comes to pass. One of the wonderful things about the internet is the way it's turning the "traditional" (for a couple centuries anyway) few->many publishing industry on its ear and letting everyone join the creative process. Sure, most of it's stuff that could readily be done from a dumbed-down tablet, but there's a nice smooth learning curve for those who want to take it to the next level - maybe you have to learn a new more powerful program, but the computing interface is the same. How much worthwhile content will never be created because an aspiring creator was overly daunted by learning the "developer interface", or couldn't afford the "developer edition" OS (okay, so the existence of Linux will *probably* guard against that). Okay, so we may have fewer funny cat videos flooding the web so it's not all bad, but still compared to say daytime television, even most of those are worthwhile.
  
  --
  --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
18. Re:Alternative: XFCE by theArtificial · 2012-12-01 18:35 · Score: 1
  
  Note how I specifically mentioned "alphanumeric data" above. A hardware keyboard has definite advantages for programmers and users of alphabetic writing systems. But for users of writing systems that require up to thousands of unique symbols, a hardware keyboard with its fixed set of keys isn't that more efficient than having the on-screen ability to summon different sets of virtual keyboards.
  Are you aware of how those systems with unique symbols operate? The fastest method by far is converting "alphabet" to symbol then using an autocomplete (or button on the keyboard) to compound the "word". The claim, that hunt n peck is not that less efficient than 10 fingers, is not based in reality. Lookups by radical or brushtroke are slow, and so is your solution with different sets of virtual keyboards which cater to this proposed solution.
  
  --
  Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
19. Re:Alternative: XFCE by yusing · 2012-12-01 18:50 · Score: 2
  
  Not only is LM13 KDE a great distro, it's very turnkey. Audio, second monitor, wifi, usb, mice, touchpads ... all just work. I tried it in August - my first Linux install - and have only visited the previous OS once a month since. WIth dozens of apps added (and some Office grunge uninstalled) takes up a whole 6GB.
  
  --
  "You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson
20. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Teun · 2012-12-01 21:01 · Score: 1
  
  For on the fly changes to the interface you should look at KDE's activities manager.
  It enables you to have radically different desktop layouts at the click of the mouse, swipe of a finger.
  
  --
  "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
21. Re:Alternative: XFCE by chilvence · 2012-12-01 21:14 · Score: 1
  
  What the hell? How many writing systems with unique symbols are there? Just say Chinese Glyphs...
22. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 21:20 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, but I had no problem picking up Android, whether on phone or tablet. It's just intuitive.
  
  Absolutely not intuitive. Case in point: long-pressing to bring-up a menu. There is no real-life prototype for that nonsense.
  
  Why haven't you created an account here?
  Perhaps he has, like me, but coulnd't be bothered logging in every time he starts his browser.
23. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Cenan · 2012-12-01 21:22 · Score: 1
  
  Mathematics
  
  --
  ... whatever ...
24. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 22:31 · Score: 0
  
  Unity is not a touch screen interface. It's not a netbook interface. Everyone assumes that it's designed for a device they don't have. But the truth is that it's just a bad idea that's equally as clumsy and poorly thought through no matter what device it's used on.
25. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Sigg3.net · 2012-12-01 23:38 · Score: 1
  
  This.
  We should move away from the 'y' will replace 'x', because what we always end up with is y in the y-usecase and x in the x-usecase.
  I play L4D2 on Wine on my Fedora PC, because any self-respecting FPS require Keyboard and Mouse. I play Skyrim on ps3 because it's a kick-back and relax enjoying the great outdoors type of exploration, for which the couch provides the perfect seating. The scenario for laptops (work), PCs (gaming), tablets/phones (communicating and commuting) and consoles (relaxation) are wholly different for most people. I wouldn't want an e-mail reader on my PS3. It's not a work-platform.
  
  --
  Defining Statistics and Social Research
26. Re:Alternative: XFCE by horza · 2012-12-02 00:04 · Score: 1
  
  Didn't have a clue? Was it that the menu bar was vertical instead of horizontal that threw you? Other than that, everything else is nearly the same. The software is identical as the OS doesn't change that. The only other thing is the Dash instead of the Start button, but after 10 seconds you figure that out then will not enjoy going back to the old way of doing things.
  Phillip.
  
  --
  Property for sale in Nice, France
27. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Verunks · 2012-12-02 00:36 · Score: 2
  
  Win7 gets better battery life with composition because it offloads to the GPU instead of using the CPU. Vista had a lot of issues with RTM, not sure how SP3 is doing, but most people I know skipped Vista anyway.
  that's not true, the dwm in both vista and 7 uses gpu acceleration, that's why you couldn't enable it on older version of vmware
28. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 01:38 · Score: 0
  
  That tipping point is driving interfaces that cater to the touchscreen user experience, even though those interfaces don't allow for as much interaction as UIs driven by the keyboard/mouse/screen user experience.
  Sorry to express my frustration to you, but I'm really getting tired of everything being called an experience. The experience is what the user makes of his or her interaction with the device or software. I love CLIs, many hate them. I think modern tablets and smartphones have cool interfaces but they hasn't invoked a desire in me to own one. I know some people who think they can't live their lives if they don't have at least two of these devices with them to interact with. The experience varies wildly from person to person for the same interface. Please don't use the word experience for the interface, the functions performed, and whatever else it is used for nowadays. That's just marketing drivel. Users can tell software maker about their experiences, but software makers don't decide for their users what the experience will be like for them. Calling an interface an interface and a function a function is much clearer.
29. Re:Alternative: XFCE by markdavis · 2012-12-02 02:06 · Score: 2
  
  # Type Label Size Used Flags 0 unallocated -- 1MB 1 ntfs WINRE_DRV 1000MB 474MB hidden 2 fat32 SYSTEM_DRV 260MB 55MB boot 3 unknown -- 128MB -- msftres 4 ntfs Windows8_OS 102.11GB 26GB -- 5 ntfs Lenovo_Recovery 8.78GB 8.53GB hidden 6 unknown -- 7GB -- hidden Can you subtract 26 from 102? I can. It equals 76GB. That is free space on a 128GB "drive". The 128GB drive is actually a more like a 119GB drive, since they use 10^3 instead of powers of two. Like I said, almost half the drive was consumed. Get lost, anonymous coward.
30. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 03:30 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, but I had no problem picking up Android, whether on phone or tablet. It's just intuitive. I didn't have the first fucking clue how I was supposed to use Unity to do anything.
  
  I read this often in the neverending whining about gnome/unity but I really don't understand this. I agree that it's annoying that the UI gets changed each time all bugs are nearly out but it's not as if Unity is very complicated (or innovative for that matter). You click the button and the app starts. What's so hard about that?
  I understand that people don't like unity but is really such a large percentage of the population too retarded to figure out how it works in +- 10 minutes?
31. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Hatta · 2012-12-02 03:31 · Score: 2
  
  You miss the fact that the vast majority of the population does not use computers to empower creative work. They use it to facebook and watch cat videos. They can do that just fine on a tablet or phone, perhaps even better. Those people really will be displaced from general purpose computers, and general purpose computers will become a niche item.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
32. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Swarley · 2012-12-02 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  When did 36% become "almost half"? Wait excuse me, "almost *HALF*". I forgot to include the needless hyperbole which looks even more ridiculous in light of your own numbers. Especially since a good portion of that is taken up by Lenovo's recovery partition. You know, that thing which has nothing at all to do with any decision on MS's part concerning their OS.
33. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Artifakt · 2012-12-02 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  The whining about Gnome shouldn't really be lumped in with the whining about Unity. It's two seperate whinings even though Unity works as a shell of sorts for Gnome. Even though they sound inextricably linked, the thing to be whined about is different. It's "Whaaah, Unity doesn't do this!, and they say its because they are aming at a certain class of hardware - that is, netbooks and other places where the screen size is rather limited", vrs. "Whaaah, Gnome doesn't let me do this, says they could explain why but don't want to bother, and I'm a bad person for even asking!" (Then Gnome throws out a couple of phrases for the 'in the know', but those words seem to be haunted by the spirit of Inego Montoya).
  I mostly use KDE Plasma on a rather large multiscreen desktop myself, but if I buy either a netbook or some types of tablet I will consider Unity with Gnome underneath as possibly a better option overall than some preinstalled alternatives, and if that happens, I expect to get serious about learning the depths of Unity and so giving it a better chance to be a long lasting default. For you car analogy folks, it's like I run my old Ford Tarus on 87 or 89 Octane, but if I ever happen to find myself driving a vintage original Firebird or Mustang, I'm prepared to give it 93 Octane gas. I literally don't know what sort of hardware might make Gnome by itself an objectively better choice, and the people recommending Gnome can't tell me, with my hardware, any situation where it reliably gives me something, such as better boot times, more stability, or something that can be objectively measured, but Unity introduces a more objective test for maybe installing Gnome - Unity might provide a way to get more use out of a netbook sized device, which is, after all, what it promises. Whining about Unity is sometimes like complaining that Premium gas costs more than Regular, before acknowleging that Premium is still the best choice for that hardware vehicle.
  
  --
  Who is John Cabal?
34. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Artifakt · 2012-12-02 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  And I appologise for writing the contraction of "it is" without a "'".
  
  --
  Who is John Cabal?
35. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Will.Woodhull · 2012-12-02 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Within the context of their times, the first computers were definitely general purpose. The two major alternatives were the abacus (and various geared adding machines that basically worked the same way), and the sliderule. Neither type could easily do the work the other was designed for, and neither type had a mechanism for accurately repeating a series of operations.
  Young'uns today have no sense of history.
  With regard to the future, the first tablet that is delivered with bluetooth peripheral connectivity and a graphics output port will be a clear winner. When I can link my tablet to a keyboard, mouse, and desktop display screen, the tablet will become my primary computing device and I will be happy. Oh, I will want a connection to external storage, a DVD R/W, my Wacom drawing tablet, and a few other goodies, too, but you get the idea.
  Until tablet computers evolve to that point, they will be useful auxilliary devices and nothing more than that. Tablets are providing computer benefits to a huge market of consumers who otherwise would never touch a computer, and that is of tremendous benefit to everyone. But these persons are not using their tablets as computers; they are using them as convenient and inexpensive containers for the ereaders, GPS mappers, phones, cameras, and other gadgets that can be stuffed into the small case. Today's tablet computer is a simpler way of carrying around multiple handheld gadgets-- only this, and nothing more.
  
  --
  Will
36. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 06:06 · Score: 0
  
  I agree that these devices have a place , however they will never fully displace desktops/laptops.
  Who said this? Was it Ken Olsen, or Thomas Watson, or Bill Gates? Or someone else who made a famously wrong prediction about computers in the past?
  
  but I like to think that people will not always be content with the lowest common denominator.
  
  I guess that's why console gaming is dead.
37. Re:Alternative: XFCE by markdavis · 2012-12-02 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  I suppose it depends on what one considers part of the MS-Windows install and what one doesn't. Unless you suppose that your definition (whatever that might be) is the only correct one.
  Personally, I count all the space that was not available to the user for storage to be part of the installation. And based on that, about half the drive was consumed and unavailable as it came to me.
  Even if you were to blow away the recovery partition and even the hibernate one, that still leaves 27GB of "stuff"; about 700% the size of a Linux installation with similar functionality. I would call that a bloated beast.
  As for the recovery partition- "that thing which has nothing at all to do with any decision on MS's part concerning their OS", as you put it- if you really don't think that has anything to do with MS's decisions then why do they not provide OEM's with physical discs? And why does MS, themselves, include MS tools to create recovery sets from the partition? And why do they provide integrated software in MS-Windows to recover from that partition to restore to previous states? And why don't they provide a download options?
38. Re:Alternative: XFCE by g00ey · 2012-12-02 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  My pet peeve with all of those window managers is that they don't scale well on high resolution displays, especially xfce. I know Linus Torvalds have written a critical post about this awhile ago in connection with Apple's retina displays on their macbooks. But even on a low-resolution 1080p display, fonts and the user interface don't scale well.
39. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Swarley · 2012-12-02 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  So if you bought a Hello Kitty laptop filled with gigabytes of Hello Kitty videos and programs that would all be part of the Windows installation? I can see your definition totally makes as much sense as mine does. Those tools you are complaining about also let you burn a windows install disc from the recovery partition so you can blow it away if you want. Official Windows .iso files are also available online. Whenever I've installed windows from an official disc there was no recovery partition. Lenovo put that there. And 36% is not almost half. If you didn't want the things that Lenovo put on your machine then either get rid of them yourself or buy a different computer. If your point is that 27 is a bigger number than other smaller numbers, then explain why that matters. Storage is dirt cheap these days. Does an extra 20GB of space make your computer amazingly more functional than it was before? To the extent that you had a point you buried it under so much exaggerated bullshit that nobody can see it anymore.
40. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 10:50 · Score: 0
  
  It's not that it's necessarily hard to learn, just that people don't want to learn something new *for no good reason* when the current way works fine. There's enough stuff to spend time on without learning how to select and run computer programs - it's a problem that doesn't need fixing, just like you don't have to relearn how to drive a car whenever you buy a new one. Perhaps you could design a car differently, but nobody cares - they can already drive!
41. Re:Alternative: XFCE by marcosdumay · 2012-12-02 12:29 · Score: 1
  
  The Twist only comes with 128MB SDD and almost *HALF* of it was completely consumed by the Win8 *BEAST*.
  What, 45 floppies? Software isn't that small since the 90's. That's 10% of a CD-ROM!
  
  --
  Rethinking email
42. Re:Alternative: XFCE by markdavis · 2012-12-02 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  >"What, 45 floppies? Software isn't that small since the 90's. That's 10% of a CD-ROM!"
  When the drive size is only 115GB, having half of it consumed by the OS install is pretty dramatic, if you ask me (and many others in Twist forums who were shocked when they saw their "free space"). Even if you delete the recovery partition and long-term hibernate, it is still huge... about 700% larger than a Linux installation with the same functionality.
  It is a bit strange that Lenovo didn't offer a 256GB SSD option.
43. Re:Alternative: XFCE by alexgieg · 2012-12-02 23:34 · Score: 1
  
  But these desktop OSes (Windows 8, unity etc) will mostly be running on regular computers without touch screens
  The impression I have is that people are slightly missing the point on the proper way to interact with this new generation of OSes. It isn't that they're touch-screen-focused, but actually only touch-focused, meaning you need some form of touch to use them as they're meant to be properly used, but not that you're limited to screens for that purpose. Replacing your standard mouse for either a touch pad or a touch mouse will provide the required input interface. For instance, last time I passed in front of an Apple store I noticed the displayed desktops all had touch pads, not mouses, so this seems to be the new default "over there".
  My guess then is that it's probably only a matter of time before other PC vendors catch up, specially now with Windows 8 making it into almost a requirement. In the near future then, only the cheapest of the cheap desktops will still come with non-touch mouses. Everything else will provide a touch input of one kind of another.
  
  --
  Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
44. Re:Alternative: XFCE by lsatenstein · 2012-12-03 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  The next generation of students will not even know how to type. SIRI will convert text to words. Now we need a C and a C++ version of SIRI. Even better, lets include a dynamic translator with SIRI.
  Bye bye spelling and handwriting.
  Brave New World
  
  --
  Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
45. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-03 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  Swoosh!
  Your original post used MB instead of GB to describe the drive size. That is why you've gotten the sarcastic replies.
46. Re:Alternative: XFCE by markdavis · 2012-12-03 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  THANK YOU! Yes, I completely missed that. Duh!
47. Re:Alternative: XFCE by marcosdumay · 2012-12-04 00:57 · Score: 1
  
  That was a joke. You made a typo at your original post.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
48. Re:Alternative: XFCE by markdavis · 2012-12-04 11:03 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, I completely missed it- both the typo (MB instead of GB) and the meaning of his reply.
49. Re:Alternative: XFCE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-05 06:26 · Score: 0
  
  Why does this shit keep getting modded up? Do you work for the fucking phone co?
  Nearly every time someone reads "The Desktop is Dead" on the Internet they do so from a Desktop computer. Go look at the fucking numbers from ANY stat gathering site. They may disagree on the absolute winner of the browser war but they all say the same thing about desktop vs mobile devices:
  
  x <-- Mobile devices
  xxxxxxxxx >- Desktop devices
  GTFO my desktop UI. Yes I know they're selling lots of phones. NO ONE IS USING THEIR PHONE FOR A DESKTOP REPLACEMENT. They're using their phone for TEXTING and PHONE CALLS. For fuck sake. Those mobile devices aren't replacing desktops. One is not eating the other. The growth of one is not statically linked to the growth of the other.
  GTFO my desktop UI.
Options by Nerdfest · 2012-12-01 12:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

I just switched to KDE because the developers aren't against the idea of me configuring and theming it as I please. It's also faster. Games are now an added bonus.
1. Re:Options by Seeteufel · 2012-12-01 13:03 · Score: 3
  
  Actually I think the design of the code is also quite sustainable.
2. Re:Options by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 01:02 · Score: 0
  
  I agree, people who argue against object orientation and code separation are living in the past, where they are welcome to stay as long as they want as long as they dont hold the rest of us back.
Strange behavior with LXDE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 12:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

A week or two ago I tested LXDE and KDE to see which one would run the best with the new Serious Sam and Unigine. With the Nvidia 304 driver, LXDE was always slower than KDE with or without compositing. This issue went away with the Nvidia 310 driver, LXDE and KDE without compositing were just about the same speed.
I have no idea what caused the slowdown, however it shows that the game's FPS does not necessarily improve with a "light" DE. Compositing however made a difference.
1. Re:Strange behavior with LXDE by gagol · 2012-12-01 14:18 · Score: 1
  
  Something seems to be very wrong with LXDE... on my XFCE netbook I see no noticeable performance hit with compositing and battery life is very similar in both cases. Have you submitted a bug report to LXDE?
  
  --
  Tomorrow is another day...
2. Re:Strange behavior with LXDE by del_diablo · 2012-12-01 16:39 · Score: 2
  
  Compositing shouldn't case any problems with LXDE and game performance unless the GPU has issues. Are we by random chance talking about a Intel laptop of a earlier chipset?
3. Re:Strange behavior with LXDE by gagol · 2012-12-01 21:42 · Score: 1
  
  My XFCE netbook uses GMA950 and intel atom (the very first N270?).
  
  --
  Tomorrow is another day...
My experience switching to KDE4.8 from Gnome3 by luckymae · 2012-12-01 12:35 · Score: 0, Informative

I just want to say that KDE4 is awesome. When I switched to openSUSE 11.2 last month, my first impression is: I love Amarok, the Dolphin file manager is 100 x better than Mac's Finder and Gnome Nautilus and Windows Explorer altogether. The default setup is pretty annoying though, I had to turn off quite a few eye candies. At least it's configurable, unlike in Gnome. I didn't regret one bit converting from Ubuntu (12.04) to SuSE (11.2) with KDE. It's stable, rock solid. In Ubuntu, my other PC's Radeon often locks up, but not the case with opensuse. Very stable. Moreover, now Ubuntu is an adware.
1. Re:My experience switching to KDE4.8 from Gnome3 by countach74 · 2012-12-01 13:34 · Score: 1
  
  Ewww.. SuSE... But yes, KDE 4.8+ is very good. I do prefer the Debian flavor, myself. :)
2. Re:My experience switching to KDE4.8 from Gnome3 by Osgeld · 2012-12-01 18:09 · Score: 1
  
  heh yea, I rather spend time using my computer rather than configuring it
Or, you know... by akiwiguy · 2012-12-01 12:44 · Score: 2, Informative

There are other DEs/WMs out there. XFCE, LXDE if you want a somewhat complete DE, WindowLab if you want something minimal but like your mouse, i3 if you like tiling (or xmonad if you swing that way).
KDE's sure to use more memory than some of the other competition, and if you're like me and only have 2GB of RAM in your primary machine, that's important.
1. Re:Or, you know... by captjc · 2012-12-01 15:06 · Score: 2
  
  Only 2 Gigs? KDE runs fine on half that. I only have 2 Gigs and even with the visual effects it runs great. Sure, you can run a Window Manager that runs on a Pentium 1 with 256 Megs, but don't do it just because you think KDE requires some monster machine with like 64 Gigs and an i7 processor.
  
  --
  Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
2. Re:Or, you know... by Narishma · 2012-12-02 00:43 · Score: 1
  
  I only have 1 GB of RAM on my netbook and KDE runs fine on it.
  
  --
  Mada mada dane.
3. Re:Or, you know... by Artifakt · 2012-12-02 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Thinkpad R32 - 11 years old - 512 M of RAM
  Now running Kubuntu 12.4 (with KDE). 30 second boot time if I type the password fast.
  
  --
  Who is John Cabal?
LXDE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 12:45 · Score: 0

Having used everything from Gnome3 w/ Unity to Enlightenment I always go back to LXDE. It is simple looks great and still lets me do what I want.
MSI Nvidea by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 12:59 · Score: 0

With my graphic card you can't run KDE4 without turning off compositing. Unfortunately KWin does not autodetect it.
Anyway, I believe Razor Qt and KDE are the future. But quality improvement is necessary. I am a bit dissatisfied that KDE still does not cross compile for multiple platform although that was promised for KDE4. Ports are only alpha quality. Now we see QT5 advance...
M assumption is that portability leads to more robust code.
1. Re:MSI Nvidea by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-03 12:44 · Score: 0
  
  I am a bit dissatisfied that KDE still does not cross compile for multiple platform although that was promised for KDE4. Ports are only alpha quality.
  That was never promised. What was announced that hard dependencies on X11 etc would be removed and they were.
  Ports to Windows and OSX still don't just magically appear. Doing the ports just became a lot easier.
Re:Good for windows, too by Seeteufel · 2012-12-01 13:05 · Score: 1

Is it of decent quality? Last time I checked it was alpha quality only. Please share insights.
SVG icons by watermark · 2012-12-01 13:07 · Score: 1

That article a few days ago about scaleable icons sent it over the edge for me. We equate high resolution with small icons, it doesn't have to be that way. I hate squinting at my screen just because I want high res graphics.
1. Re:SVG icons by bmo · 2012-12-01 14:48 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  >Last time I looked they were transparently rendered and cached as bitmaps anyway.
  When was this, in the 3x days?
  Open dolphin. Grab the slider. Watch as the icons in Dolphin magically resize as you move the slider back and forth at to completely arbitrary sizes that aren't limited to powers of 2.
  Go back to 4chan /g/.
  --
  BMO
2. Re:SVG icons by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 17:45 · Score: 0
  
  Go back to 4chan /g/.
  Slashdot nowdays is FAR worse than that.
3. Re:SVG icons by gl4ss · 2012-12-01 22:10 · Score: 2
  
  of course they're "transparently rendered and cached as bitmaps", in different sizes. doing it any other way makes no sense, directly keeping rendering the svg to screen makes no sense at all as aproach to blitting something that doesn't change to the screen.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Uses RAM, bad at running games by loufoque · 2012-12-01 13:07 · Score: 1

Games frequently require large amounts of RAM, so the fact that the desktop uses a lot makes it somewhat bad for games.
Somehow the game makers got stuck in the 32 bit era though, which means that if you have more than 4GB of ram, you won't have a problem.
1. Re:Uses RAM, bad at running games by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 13:30 · Score: 0
  
  If we're taling Linux/FreeBSD, most games can be compiled 64 bit no problem. Also, ram is cheap...the only truly ram constrained modern platform that isn't an embedded system would be something like the atom with some chipsets or implementations unable to support more than 2gb of ram. Graphics are usually a larger bottleneck than ram for games anyway...this 2gb netbook has more trouble with rendering than swapping, and that's running a live os.
2. Re:Uses RAM, bad at running games by Swarley · 2012-12-01 17:48 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like you just killed your own argument. As you said, games hardly ever use more than 4GB of RAM. 4GB of RAM is not "large amounts of RAM". Ram is so cheap now, and even insanely cheap and small machines like the Zotac Zbox computers will support up to 8GB. I really don't see how this could possibly be a problem for anybody who would want to play games enough to even care that it's a problem.
3. Re:Uses RAM, bad at running games by Hatta · 2012-12-02 03:23 · Score: 0
  
  That's what swapping is for.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
4. Re:Uses RAM, bad at running games by loufoque · 2012-12-02 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  That will not help you if you run a 32-bit non-PAE kernel, like many people still do. (Apparently, Ubuntu still recommends the 32-bit version)
5. Re:Uses RAM, bad at running games by Hatta · 2012-12-02 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like another great reason not to use Ubuntu.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
6. Re:Uses RAM, bad at running games by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-07 13:24 · Score: 0
  
  I still run a 32 bit PAE kernel because there are still so many 64 bit issues.
  I have 8 GB RAM + 2 GB on my video card and can use every bit of it.
  Of course, I use a proper distro, thus not Ubuntu or any Debian or Debian-derivitive.
Re:Good for windows, too by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 13:13 · Score: 0

What is of decent quality?
Serious Sam works, though a lot slower than under Windows.
Unigine is just as fast, maybe slightly faster under Linux.
the 310 driver works too. had no issues so far.
Would rather just game with compositing on by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 13:13 · Score: 0

I reject the idea that gaming requires compositing to be off. Why cripple multitasking?
Also on the subject of multitasking, why, now, in 2012, almost 2013, do we STILL have linux games that eat your entire keyboard and axe all window manager shortcuts? Ridiculous, and shouldn't be allowed by the WM. Windows doesn't let this happen and never has. I exit these games immediately and uninstall them. I'd have to say it's probably been around 60% of the games I've tried for linux.
1. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 14:17 · Score: 0
  
  In a nutshell, this is why I always run my games in windowed mode if possible.
  Because the people who make the Linux versions think hogging the input devices is a bloody brilliant idea!
  It's SDL 1.2's modus operandi, if SDL 2 handles this in a sensible way it simply cannot be released soon enough.
2. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by reve_etrange · 2012-12-01 15:29 · Score: 1
  
  Plenty of Windows games crash if you minimize them or switch to windowed mode. The recent Bethesda RPGs for example.
  
  --
  .: Semper Absurda :.
3. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by reve_etrange · 2012-12-01 15:33 · Score: 1
  
  But the keyboard shortcuts still work.
  
  --
  .: Semper Absurda :.
4. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by mikael_j · 2012-12-02 00:15 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, sadly this is one of those things that work much better on Windows than OS X or any Linux setup I've tried (Sure, if you want to get picky about it you could write your own patches to deal with this, perhaps even introducing a new abstraction layer, but for an average user this is hardly an option).
  
  --
  Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
5. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by Hatta · 2012-12-02 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. If the ability to play games requires you to use a certain desktop, or switch off features of your OS, something is terribly wrong. I haven't done anything like that since I used to kill explorer.exe to free enough RAM for Half-Life, nearly 15 years ago.
  Fortunately, compositing provides no useful features whatsoever and so nothing of value is lost by using a window manager that simply does not support it.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
6. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by marcosdumay · 2012-12-02 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately, compositing provides no useful features whatsoever...
  It makes my DE faster, and saves battery power at my laptop. But it makes no difference while running a full-screen game, so turning it off at this time won't be a problem at all.
  Also, turning compositing off doesn't cripple multitasking. It just changes the way the DE draws the screen.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
7. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 13:18 · Score: 0
  
  Disabling compositing cripples multitasking by disabling a number of window and desktop switching methods that lay out your windows visually. Just because you don't use these features doesn't mean they aren't there.
8. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by Hatta · 2012-12-03 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  Why is your DE so slow that it needs to be faster? I can switch between windows, and desktops full of windows, faster than my eyes can react.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
9. Re:Would rather just game with compositing on by marcosdumay · 2012-12-04 01:02 · Score: 1
  
  Somehow, without hardware acceleration my laptop takes a few ms to show, resize or move a window. It's not a long time, it doesn't slow me down, but it's noticeable.
  That may be because the laptop is old (I'm planning to upgrade into a faster tablet + keyboard), because I'm using too many effects, or maybe even because there are too many thing running in it.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
Re:Good for windows, too by Gaygirlie · 2012-12-01 13:25 · Score: 1

I'm using KDE with Windows 8 RT (Microsoft surface). It's the best of both worlds -- the rock-solid NT kernel and the KDE desktop. iPadders look a little jealous when they see a real desktop on a tablet.
How did you go about installing KDE on it? They do not provide any binaries or instructions for that. In fact I smell bullshit here,but I'm not gonna mention what mistake you did until you respond.
Re:0.1% of users know what "Compositing" is by MrEricSir · 2012-12-01 13:56 · Score: 4, Funny

For those who don't know, compositing is when you throw your food scraps and lawn clippings in the green bin.

--
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
KDE still not required.... by julian67 · 2012-12-01 14:08 · Score: 3, Informative

Xfce allows the user to switch off compositing in the settings GUI or, more usefully for scripts and launchers, with a command:
Compositing off: "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/use_compositing -t bool -s false"
Compositing on: "xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/use_compositing -t bool -s true"
A KDE dev pretending that Gnome 3 or Unity are the only other options makes him seem slightly desperate way.
1. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 15:26 · Score: 0
  
  I'm on a lowend machine (Athlon XP 3800+, 2Gigs of memory and an Nvidia 9600GT) and last I tried Unity/KDE etc. didn't really run even basic games without a hitch, no matter what I did. So I've switched to Xfce which imo looks and works better than the other "lightweights".
2. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 15:50 · Score: 0
  
  Wtf... just ran
  
  sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
  to test things, installed 300MB of stuff and now when I run
  
  sudo apt-get remove kubuntu-desktop
  I get a spiffy 50Kb to be removed, kthxbye! Leaving me with a lot of KDE-based junk to manually sort through.
3. Re:KDE still not required.... by osu-neko · 2012-12-01 15:55 · Score: 2
  
  A KDE dev pretending that Gnome 3 or Unity are the only other options makes him seem slightly desperate way.
  There are dozens of desktop alternatives for GNU/Linux/*BSD/etc. That a fan of one of the dozens of minor ones is complaining that a KDE dev only mentioned the major alternatives and didn't mention his favorite of the dozens of others makes him seem slightly butthurt...
  
  --
  "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
4. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 16:30 · Score: 0
  
  Eh... KDE fanboi thinking that popularity should override critical thinking makes him seem retarded. No matter how you slice it and dice it KDE with or without compositing which will take more resources and longer to start than Xfce, all of that is away from what you actually want to use your computer for. But sure, let's compare KDE to only failed ideas.
5. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 17:11 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  1. He pretends nothing of the sort.
  2. KDE requires no such modification.
  3. A complete gentleman, Graesslin devotes an entire closing paragraph to not criticizing other projects for their choices.
  Ride your strawman outta here.
6. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 18:40 · Score: 1
  
  I don't care because I have good hardware..
  What is that crazy idea Linux should only be run on old, slow and memory low systems?
  KDE is more than fast enough on a i3-2100 with 4Gb memory, and gaming is fast enough even with my old and trusty GTX285..
  If you do not like the plasma desktop it is easy to switch to a more "classic" desktop, by simply right-click in the desktop anywhere, choose "desktop settings", and set the "activities" to "folder view". Simple and effective..
  You can switch off compositing bling-bling to speed up your desktop (and if you don't like bling-bling) by unchecking "enable desktop effects" in system setting->Desktop effects.
  So two little tweaks and you have a classic and fast desktop..
7. Re:KDE still not required.... by Osgeld · 2012-12-01 20:21 · Score: 0
  
  "I don't care because I have good hardware.."
  my 1986 mac can go from dead cold to excel in 8 seconds ... see how that works?
  "KDE is more than fast enough on a i3-2100 with 4Gb memory, and gaming is fast enough even with my old and trusty GTX285.."
  if you like it, fine, doesnt change the fact that KDE is and always has been heavy
  "If you do not like the plasma desktop it is easy to switch to a more "classic" desktop, by simply right-click in the desktop anywhere, choose "desktop settings", and set the "activities" to "folder view". Simple and effective.."
  Doesnt shut stuff down, just changes the presentation mode, good that you only go on looks, ought to net you a real good relationship one day
  "You can switch off compositing bling-bling to speed up your desktop (and if you don't like bling-bling) by unchecking "enable desktop effects" in system setting->Desktop effects."
  Or one could avoid it without manually shutting it off for certain application performance issues
  "So two little tweaks and you have a classic and fast desktop.."
  Its also slower and eats more resources for stuff you cant see ... brilliant
8. Re:KDE still not required.... by Teun · 2012-12-01 21:24 · Score: 2
  
  This is too late for your issue but apt-get can be told to not install recommended but not needed packages with “–no-install-recommends”.
  Other solutions:
  http://linux.koolsolutions.com/2009/01/07/howto-tell-apt-get-not-to-install-recommends-packages-in-debian-linux/
  
  --
  "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
9. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 21:37 · Score: 1
  
  Kde: shift + alt + f12
  And you can switch between a plain wm behavior good for intensive games, or fancy but configurable effects.
10. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 21:49 · Score: 0
  
  apt-get autoremove ?
11. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 00:39 · Score: 0
  
  Nerd rager should go back to his nerd masturbation. People use different shit than you, because they don't want your shit. People are not you. Get over yourself, and stop trying to turn everybody in you. We don't want to be you.
12. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 00:43 · Score: 0
  
  It's something to do with that massive forearm you've got on your dominant side...
13. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 09:37 · Score: 0
  
  I'm on a pretty lowend machine myself (i7 860 quadcore 3GHz, 8GiB and ATI HD5970) and I don't have any problems with KDE or Unity or Xfce. I don't see how the window manager is going to affect any games.
14. Re:KDE still not required.... by infinitelink · 2012-12-02 12:38 · Score: 1
  
  I think it has more to do with "we've built all this neat infrastructure to accomodate both devs and users; the latter have a pretty interface that's powerful, the former have a bunch of stuff to leverage--and none of the prescription, feature-removing, frustration of Gnome or Unity!!!" when many think "I just want something that (1) looks good enough and (2) that doesn't eat my hardware in the process; 1 is optional". I like KDE for all its integration, advantages, etc., but XFCE far better because I can drop it on a half gig of ram and care less about doing any tweaking to make sure it will run well or not. Too many devs in the Linux world started targeting the mainstream when their advantage was NOT eating-up all the hardware possible AND being able to install on older or lower-end hardware yet still produce a system that permits someone to be more productive than commercial systems.
  
  Usually things like "easier development", "worry less about [bla bla bla] and more about functionality", etc., are code words for "we're getting lazy with use of system resources because the hardware coming out is really powerful" and "we're thinking of ourselves rather than the user." If XFCE keeps its focus on low system impact and efficient algorithms, and builds-out the kind of functionality once found in Gnome, Nautilus, etc., and avoids takeovers by those who don't care about this but only desktop share to sell software or services (or neither but integrates their services into the software to make sales or commission percentages on sales), I expect its share will just keep growing.
  
  --
  Intelligent idiots are we. | Evil men do not understand justice.
15. Re:KDE still not required.... by julian67 · 2012-12-02 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  I think that makes a good point: appeal to self/other developers being prioritized to the detriment of actual or potential users is a failing that is quite common, and those who do it are naturally enough completely blind to the issue.
  Years ago I did use KDE. It could run nicely on the kind of normal hardware most of us have at home, the stuff we buy with our own money and don't throw out after a year. It was also OK on medium and small screens. But KDE4 made it painfully obvious that it was developed by people using very large displays (probably more than one) and very powerful hardware. The huge amount of space taken up by window decoration make it utterly useless on any but the largest laptops (hint: if your photo editor dedicates more display space to (mostly empty!) window decoration than the image then your UI is seriously fucked up), and the gargantuan appetite for system resources means it performs like Vista as well as resembling it. Who actually asked for any of that?
  I'm very grateful to the Xfce devs who years ago took a basic but sane UI concept and have stuck to the tasks of incrementally improving it and sometimes integrating new features, while always keeping new versions feeling familiar and never forgetting that the end product has to be something that people like and want and can actually stick with and use every day.
16. Re:KDE still not required.... by infinitelink · 2012-12-02 13:35 · Score: 1
  
  But KDE4 made it painfully obvious that it was developed by people using very large displays (probably more than one) and very powerful hardware. The huge amount of space taken up by window decoration make it utterly useless on any but the largest laptops (hint: if your photo editor dedicates more display space to (mostly empty!) window decoration than the image then your UI is seriously fucked up),
  This made me smile. : ) I encounter that sort of thing in software too much!
  
  I'm very grateful to the Xfce devs who years ago took a basic but sane UI concept and have stuck to the tasks of incrementally improving it and sometimes integrating new features, while always keeping new versions feeling familiar and never forgetting that the end product has to be something that people like and want and can actually stick with and use every day.
  More impressively, last I checked, XFCE is so light that it is re-written between major versions, to completely overhaul the code to implement the new features lightly. That's not always possible in software, but it's a clear indication of what basic tools that come with an OS for using a computer should and should not be. They should be small, unobtrusive, helpful; they should not be the main experience or point of using the system or buying a computer!
  
  --
  Intelligent idiots are we. | Evil men do not understand justice.
17. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-03 01:16 · Score: 0
  
  KDE can be used with a different window manager, like awesome or i3. And kwin decorations can be configured too, including their size for example, i have no side or bottom border and the top isn't that huge. Lasty if you get a shit display on a laptop made in 201x that has lower vertical resolution than my 11 year old super cheap CRT that I trashed with fanfares years ago, it's your own bloody problem, in fact, it's beyond me how can anyone use that, then again, i cringe whenever i see someone using an average smartphone since I'd probably slice off my fingers instead of trying to read wallsof text on something that small.
18. Re:KDE still not required.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-03 05:52 · Score: 0
  
  Years ago I did use KDE. It could run nicely on the kind of normal hardware most of us have at home, the stuff we buy with our own money and don't throw out after a year. It was also OK on medium and small screens.
  What would you call a laptop from 2007 with 2gb of ram, an intel 7200 core 2 processor and an intel 3100 graphics card? Something that no one can afford? Oh and btw, the laptop lcd popped an ic and the only spare monitor I had is an old crt with the out of this world 1024x768 resolution...kde 4.9.3 with composition and desktop effects, running apache, mysql and proftp servers, netbeans 7.2.1, gimp 2.8 (this 1s a pain to use on the cramped screen), amarok, 13 or 14 tabs for each of firefox, chromium and rekonq and my system seems to be using (gasps) 1.3 gb ram whilst running between 50 to 60 degree celsius with each core at around 50%. Oh and kde with any of a dozen plasma themes and window decorations for netbooks is perfectly usable. Now, you tell me what you meant when you said what you said?
Mod parent up. by khasim · 2012-12-01 14:11 · Score: 2

While I am continuously impressed with what can be done on these devices, I am always cognizant of what *can't* be done on these devices.
Exactly. The interface for a less complicated device (a car) should be different from the interface for a more complicated device (jet airplane).

Even browsing the web becomes cumbersome quickly when you need to *type* anything.
You hope that you are in a place where you can use Siri and that Siri understands what you are saying.
And don't forget the web sites that just suck on a mobile device. Like when you have to scroll and scroll and scroll left to read something.

Forget about doing any actual work on one of these things such as replying to emails or anything that is enhanced by more than one 10" screen.
They are designed for consumption of media. Not for production of anything.
I know there will be people who claim that they use their mobile device for writing thousands of lines of code and composing spreadsheets and documents but even if they are real they are the minority.

I realize that the hardware/software manufacturers love the idea of these portable devices and all of the restrictions (hardware/software locks) contained within, but I like to think that people will not always be content with the lowest common denominator
I think that most people will love their mobile devices for media consumption and many people will like the same interface for their desktop/laptop because that is the way they work (full-screen apps possibly layered over each other but only one being interacted with at any time).
But for me, I want my stupid "Start" button or equivalent. I don't want to have to remember the name of an app to launch it. I want to build the menu tree the way I want to use it.
1. Re:Mod parent up. by horza · 2012-12-02 00:27 · Score: 1
  
  And don't forget the web sites that just suck on a mobile device. Like when you have to scroll and scroll and scroll left to read something.
  We had the same with normal web sites on the desktop for a while, where they were designed fixed for 800x600 and IE only. Looked awful 1600x1200 on Firefox. With the current move to rewriting all the sites as 'responsive' the web will clean itself up for mobile.
  They are designed for consumption of media. Not for production of anything.
  Not true for real estate any more. I know agents now that walk around with a pad, use it to take photos, draw a floor plan, and enter the description. They can then put it instantly online. Still a tiny minority but I can see that growing.
  I know there will be people who claim that they use their mobile device for writing thousands of lines of code and composing spreadsheets and documents but even if they are real they are the minority.
  Ah I can see your bias as a coder of some sort. The fact is these kinds of people are the minority, most people don't spend their day writing thousands of lines of code.
  I think that most people will love their mobile devices for media consumption and many people will like the same interface for their desktop/laptop because that is the way they work (full-screen apps possibly layered over each other but only one being interacted with at any time).
  The Samsung Galaxy Note 2 can have multiple apps running side by side, but I don't think many people use it.
  But for me, I want my stupid "Start" button or equivalent. I don't want to have to remember the name of an app to launch it. I want to build the menu tree the way I want to use it.
  I always hated the stupid "Start" button. That menu always seemed very inefficient to me. It's the one thing I REALLY do not miss. This is one area where Unity really has it right. There are occasional hiccups. I installed "Sweet Home 3D" to do floor plans, but typing "plan" didn't bring up my app. I need some way to add keywords to an app to help me find it. What would be ideal is right-clicking, instead of launching, brings up a context menu which includes "Add keywords".
  Phillip.
  
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  Property for sale in Nice, France
nope by JC61990 · 2012-12-01 14:12 · Score: 0

I still wont switch to KDE. I just don't like it. Gnome 2.X is still my favorite or just keep it simple with LXDE.
1. Re:nope by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 11:46 · Score: 0
  
  I still wont switch to KDE. I just don't like it. Gnome 2.X is still my favorite or just keep it simple with LXDE.
  Thanks for sharing.
Why not? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 14:27 · Score: 0

If you're gaming, then you've already got a PC with a decent graphics chip. Why not have it doing something with those extra processing cycles?
Re:Why? by Ziggitz · 2012-12-01 14:50 · Score: 1

Because if you're not running low end gear like some user tend to have a hard on for it's actually nice to have a pretty interface. If you're only wasting memory and cycles on it when your machine is at rest and it's a pitiful amount of resources for the system you're on then there's no harm in it. Why does every single XFCE user need to come into every Unity and Plasma article and and squeal with indignation like there's a catastrophic world wide memory shortage. If you're running XFCE, LXDE or any DE designed for low end hardware you're probably not playing games.

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There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
Distro recommendation? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 15:01 · Score: 0

Does Kubuntu still suck for KDE at 12.10, or is that era finally behind us?
If not, what's the nicest KDE out there? Mageia? Please spare a brother some distro-rolling. Who's doing it right these days?
1. Re:Distro recommendation? by fromhell091 · 2012-12-02 00:21 · Score: 2
  
  Kubuntu 12.10 seems a good option for you if you're used to Ubuntu and debian world. But for me, openSUSE 12.2 is the best KDE distro out there. Robust, professional looking, tons of applications, obs (opensuse Build Service), good community... And the new theme for openSUSE 12.3 in KDE looks even better.. http://www.dennogumi.org/2012/11/new-theme-for-opensuse-12-3-is-now-in
Re:Good for windows, too by armanox · 2012-12-01 15:12 · Score: 2

Never tried on W8, but surely you're aware of http://windows.kde.org/?

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I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Re:Good for windows, too by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 15:17 · Score: 0

I'm using KDE with Windows 8 RT (Microsoft surface).
Sounds totally gay.
Compositing is slow? by aaron552 · 2012-12-01 15:23 · Score: 1

This is the first I've heard that a decent compositing window manager (ie. not early Compiz builds) actually significantly affecting 3D fps. Windows has used a compositing windows manager since Vista (dwm) and, if anything, FPS got better for windowed apps, and vsync is "free". The worst I've ever seen compositing affect fps (in non-alpha Compiz, GNOME3 or Unity) is in the single digits.

--
I had a sig once. It was lost in the great storm of '09.
1. Re:Compositing is slow? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  With nvidia, any compositing at all halves framerate.
  Without nvidia, forget gaming on linux.
2. Re:Compositing is slow? by aaron552 · 2012-12-01 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  I'm reporting my experience with the open source Radeon drivers. And compositing has next to no noticeable impact on Windows, so my guess is it's nVidia's fault here.
  
  --
  I had a sig once. It was lost in the great storm of '09.
Re:0.1% of users know what "Compositing" is by ThatsMyNick · 2012-12-01 16:39 · Score: 1

But 99.9% of game developers know what "Composting" is, and the users never have to know what it is. This will not be one of the reasons if 2013 is not the Year of Linux Desktop.
Re:Good for windows, too by Gaygirlie · 2012-12-01 17:09 · Score: 1

Never tried on W8, but surely you're aware of http://windows.kde.org/?
Yes, I am. However, you should notice that they do only offer x86 - binaries while Windows RT is ARM...
Re:Good for windows, too by armanox · 2012-12-01 17:24 · Score: 1

And I fail at reading the original post. Sorry.

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I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Re:Good for windows, too by unixisc · 2012-12-01 18:52 · Score: 1

By KDE, did he mean KDE Desktop, or Plasma Active? Plasma Active can be installed on Android, but I'm not sure whether a version exists for Windows.
Touch screens - the early years by Immerman · 2012-12-01 18:59 · Score: 1

even though those interfaces don't allow for as much interaction as UIs driven by the keyboard/mouse/screen user experience.
I'm not sure that's fundamentally true - we're currently looking at the early steps of touch-based interfaces, it might be better to compare them to the early pre-unix years of the command line interfaces, or the early Apple and Amiga GUIs - functional, but horribly anemic by today's standards because we've had decades to refine the user experience. Give touch interfaces a few decades to mature and they may we'll exceed the capability and versatility of keyboard & mouse. I can already think of a few text-entry interfaces that are potentially far faster than an average typist, especially if using haptic/textured screens, and stylus support restores mouse-like precision when needed while potentially adding all those yummy Wacom-esque subtleties like orientation and pressure. Combined with intuitive multi-touch enhancements... well it's potentially an *extremely* intuitive and input-rich interface. For now though we're still stuck in the awkward transition period - the OSes are kludgey, and ports of traditional software are even worse. A lot of the new tablet-specific apps are exploring interesting new input techniques, but it will take a while for the really good ideas to sift out. With luck the assortment of tablet interfaces will keep any "adequate" solutions from gaining too much traction before the really good ones emerge.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Separate X > any of the above by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-01 19:30 · Score: 1

IMO, the best "Linux gaming solution" is: any desktop environment you like + separate X server for games. This solution may be very handy in situations such as game hang, and it can compensate lack of Alt+Tab functionality.
Re:Separate X any of the above by mrvan · 2012-12-02 01:11 · Score: 1

Is there an easy way to start a new X server in a separate control-alt-F*?
Actually the problem is already fixed in compiz by nej_simon · 2012-12-02 01:40 · Score: 1

Compiz developers have fixed the option "Unredirect Fullscreen Windows" and enabled it by default in 0.9.8.6. So games should have the same performance as when running on a non-compositing window manager.
1. Re:Actually the problem is already fixed in compiz by Windwraith · 2012-12-02 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  But only in fullscreen? In KDE I have my games or whatever, let's say Minecraft, and a few extra windows, and it runs very well. In anything else with compositing, it almost halves its FPS. Even if I am playing a game I might need to not be isolated from my system or IM windows. And I think I am not the only one doing that.
Re:SVG icons- the guy that does them by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 02:48 · Score: 1

Svg is great but... if you go and see the sources- svg's for the icons uyou will see that there are multiple svg's for each size.. usualy 16x16 22x22 32x32 48x48 and then 128x128 and hidef wich is 256x256 - this are fully scalable and look good enough up untill 2560x2560.
As I usualy say SVG is scalabe but your screen is not, aka pixels are still there and thge small icons need to maintain their meningfull elements visible in the small icons, also those elements needs to be aligned with the rendering grid so they remain crisp and sharp...
Another problem is that sone svg's are rather complex to render involving multiple filters, pseudo textures, etc some icons I have made take several minutes to render in theirs larger sizes...
Re:Separate X any of the above by csirac · 2012-12-02 03:03 · Score: 2

startx -- :1
Assuming you're happy to use the locally connected display, and your local X server isn't running on :1. startx -- makes all the opts on the right-hand-side of the -- get passed on to X binary verbatim. See man X
Re:Separate X any of the above by riondluz · 2012-12-02 04:56 · Score: 2

The easy way was previously replied, the robust way is this:
change etc/init/tty4.conf to something like this:
start on runlevel [2345]
stop on runlevel [!2345]
emits starting-tty4
script
# startx -- -logverbose 6
exec /bin/openvt -f -w -c 4 -- su - -- username -l -c "/usr/bin/startx -- :4 -config xorg.conf -layout DefaultLayout -depth 24 -dpi 96 -nolisten tcp vt10"
end script
Above will start X using a specific conf, layout, dpi, ... Then use home/username/.xinitrc to launch and manipulate the desired app:
aTTY=`/usr/bin/tty`;
elif [ "$aTTY" = "/dev/tty4" ]; then
XINITRC_LOG="/var/log/tty4.log"
exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session /path/to/script/or/app >> $INITRC_LOG 3>&1
sleep(2) /bin/chvt 10
Note: this is also a good place to use xrandr or other window manipulation tools
To start the whole thing just do
initctl start tty4
from any ol' place
Hope this helps

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resist propaganda
Re:Good for windows, too by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 05:24 · Score: 0

If only gcc, clang, or even msvc++ could generate ARM binaries....
Nothing KDE makes sense.. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-02 05:42 · Score: 0

Nothing KDE makes sense....Please kill it already....
XFCE is better by Artemis3 · 2012-12-02 07:15 · Score: 1

Last time i tried, KDE4 just took too long to boot, AND would easily eat 1g of ram for itself. XFCE (and LXDE) on the other hand, are instant and provide anything needed to quickly launch apps and stay out of the way.
As a gamer, i wouldn't want that memory hog lying around, but i can see its appeal to windows vista users; unlike gnome which makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm not a fan of unity but it gets the job done, albeit slowly and bug prone (and its a dependency nightmare). Unity just mimics a bit of the MacOSX interface, which i don't particularly like either.
With XFCE, i can have a vertical panel and put a few icons there, i don't need a dock. I also don't like the "start" menu used by default with KDE, the classical style works good.
XFCE is also very stable, at least in Xubuntu 12.04, it has never ever crashed on me. Only the idiot tumbler would, very few times but you won't notice unless apport is running. Some people dislike thunar because of it, but tumbler is optional.
Being able to disable compositing is good for windowed 3d apps, like playing a rpg where you need to consult documentation or just need to leave other windows open, which is why we have larger screens for, and it also happens to consume less power.

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Artix
Your Linux, your init.
And the flamewar continues by marcosdumay · 2012-12-02 12:33 · Score: 1

That's why I use a distro that doesn't relocate config files and won't automaticaly replace them once I make a change.

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Rethinking email